MJ had 16 all nba/all defensive teammate selections. LBJ only had 7. LeAmazing

[TheCorporation]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6r8vpxg/MJ-had-more-help-16-vs-7.png

LeBron turned 7 selections into 4 rings/FMVPs = 57.1% rate
Jordan turned 16 selections into 6 rings/FMVPs = 37.5% rate

LeBron wins again bois :pimp:

[theman93]

I thought all Lebron needed to win was a ball? Are you saying he needed more help?

[3ba11]

.

Top Tier Dominant Series or Playoff Runs by Lebron's teammates

* Wade 2011 Playoffs and Finals (led Lebron in scoring)
* Kyrie 2016 Playoffs and Finals (equal-scoring partner with Lebron)
* Kyrie 2017 Playoffs and Finals (26 and 29 ppg in PO/Finals)
* AD 2020 Playoffs and Finals (led league in playoff scoring)




Top Tier Dominant Series or Playoff Runs by Jordan's teammates







Lebron needed 2 all-star teammates to win rings, or he needed a teammate to outproduce him (AD), while Jordan didn't need anything - Pippen's stats were defensive role player caliber, but his resume got inflated by the winning spotlight and association with MJ, just like Kobe got a few extra all-defense for the same reason (winning spotlight and association with MJ)

Ultimately, everyone in history needed an equal-scoring partner in the playoffs for at least half their rings, while Jordan led his sidekick in every SERIES by at least 10 ppg - so there's no comparison - Jordan stands alone in carrying teams - he won 6 chips with a team of defensive role players that NEVER DOMINATED OFFENSIVELY

Teammate scoring matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive attention for his entire career, (thus giving maximum integrity to his stats and rings).. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

Accordingly, rings with 2nd options are greater than rings with 1b's and Jordan has far more rings with true 2nd options than anyone else in history - that's his irrefutable goat argument.

[Orange_Cassidy]

lebron sure does make other players worse. thanks for proving it once and for all OP


wade should be 8, bosh should be 4. kyrie should be 3, Davis should be 4..

lecancer?

[kawhileonard2]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6r8vpxg/MJ-had-more-help-16-vs-7.png

LeBron turned 7 selections into 4 rings/FMVPs = 57.1% rate
Jordan turned 16 selections into 6 rings/FMVPs = 37.5% rate

LeBron wins again bois :pimp:

Lebron had Ben Wallace who also was DPOY 4x, as well as Dwight Howard who was DPOY 3x. Also had Shaw who won league and finals mvp

[3ba11]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6r8vpxg/MJ-had-more-help-16-vs-7.png

LeBron turned 7 selections into 4 rings/FMVPs = 57.1% rate
Jordan turned 16 selections into 6 rings/FMVPs = 37.5% rate

LeBron wins again bois :pimp:



Pippen got all-nba despite lower BPM, PER and WS/48 than Kyrie, AD, or Wade, so the winning spotlight and association with MJ inflated Pip, while Lebron's teammates were lowered by losing and association with a team-hopper/choker.

[Hey Yo]

MJ reduced his teammates PPG by making them concentrate on defense while he took 30fga a game.

[3ba11]

MJ reduced his teammates PPG by making them concentrate on defense while he took 30fga a game.


The 95' Bulls were 34-31 and borderline playoffs, yet poor Pippen could only average 22 ppg, just like 94'... That was his peak capability without Mike (22.0 and 5.6 apg), which was below his peak raw production with Mike (21.0 and 7.0 apg).

Ultimately, when Mike came back in 1995, everyone took a 1-2 point haircut across the board and played to 90% capacity alongside him - it was an equitable reduction across the board because Mike's game fit with everyone (on-ball and off-ball), so he didn't crater certain player types like Lebron's skill restriction to ball-dominance does.

Isn't that amazing?.. So guys like Bosh and Love would still be stars alongside Mike, just like other 3rd options before them (Klay, Worthy or Parish were still stars that could take over and dominate stretches when needed)

[3ba11]

The 95' Bulls were 34-31 and borderline playoffs, yet poor Pippen could only average 22 ppg, just like 94'... That was his peak capability without Mike (22.0 and 5.6 apg), which was below his peak raw production with Mike (21.0 and 7.0 apg).

Ultimately, when Mike came back in 1995, everyone took a 1-2 point haircut across the board and played to 90% capacity alongside him - it was an equitable reduction across the board because Mike's game fit with everyone (on-ball and off-ball), so he didn't crater certain player types like Lebron's skill restriction to ball-dominance does.

Isn't that amazing?.. So guys like Bosh and Love would still be stars alongside Mike, just like other 3rd options before them (Klay, Worthy or Parish were still stars that could take over and dominate stretches when needed)


https://media.tenor.com/images/8a081b652b6aa31e283518ca9219b79e/tenor.gif

[MadDog]

That chart was made by an absolute mongrel. :oldlol: LeBron has teamhopped repeatedly, which means 1.) he never stayed long enough with an All-NBA teammate and 2.) he's had more All-League teammates, in total. Pippen played sidekick to Jordan for 10 years straight. Give or take. Wade? LeBron jumped ship after 4 years. Wanted fresh new blood.

If OP included all their selections, we'd see LeBron's had the help of the entire league.

[FKAri]

I thought all Lebron needed to win was a ball? Are you saying he needed more help?

I don't think he needs a ball either.

That chart was made by an absolute mongrel. :oldlol: LeBron has teamhopped repeatedly, which means 1.) he never stayed long enough with an All-NBA teammate and 2.) he's had more All-League teammates, in total. Pippen played sidekick to Jordan for 10 years straight. Give or take. Wade? LeBron jumped ship after 4 years. Wanted fresh new blood.

If OP included all their selections, we'd see LeBron's had the help of the entire league.

Lebron provides the help. Goes to lottery teams around the country and gets them a chip. Once they've got their shit together he moves on. It's like Gordon Ramsey in Kitchen Nightmares or those makeover shows. Helps you out of a jam then pats you on a shoulder and rides off. GOAT shit.

[MadDog]

I don't think he needs a ball either.


Lebron provides the help. Goes to lottery teams around the country and gets them a chip. Once they've got their shit together he moves on. It's like Gordon Ramsey in Kitchen Nightmares or those makeover shows. Helps you out of a jam then pats you on a shoulder and rides off. GOAT shit.

Good point. LeBron was key in aiding Dallas to a title. Should've been FMVP tbh

[ELITEpower23]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6r8vpxg/MJ-had-more-help-16-vs-7.png

LeBron turned 7 selections into 4 rings/FMVPs = 57.1% rate
Jordan turned 16 selections into 6 rings/FMVPs = 37.5% rate

LeBron wins again bois :pimp:

There he goes again! Corp got his haters onna leash, not even 1 post to refute it. Must be facts :confusedsheug:

[Full Court]

MJ reduced his teammates PPG by making them concentrate on defense while he took 30fga a game.

Seeing how the Bulls three-peated TWICE, apparently that system worked pretty well.

[TheCorporation]

Crazy to think MJ had almost three times (16 vs 7) the amount of help and still scored 2,000 less points

https://i.postimg.cc/sxqtq2YZ/MJ-had-more-help-16-vs-7.png

[deathawaitu]

Damn Lebron manage to win zero rings with the GOAT centre Shaq

Lebron is just a born failure and need more help :(

The gold standard

[ImKobe]

OP and his early 2000s photoshop skills :roll::roll:

[ELITEpower23]

Crazy to think MJ had almost three times (16 vs 7) the amount of help and still scored 2,000 less points

https://i.postimg.cc/sxqtq2YZ/MJ-had-more-help-16-vs-7.png

Wow. Anyone care to refute these facts? Or are we done here with the debate?

[And1AllDay]

Crazy to think MJ had almost three times (16 vs 7) the amount of help and still scored 2,000 less points

https://i.postimg.cc/sxqtq2YZ/MJ-had-more-help-16-vs-7.png

3baLLLLLLLLLL?

[ELITEpower23]

Crazy to think MJ had almost three times (16 vs 7) the amount of help and still scored 2,000 less points

https://i.postimg.cc/sxqtq2YZ/MJ-had-more-help-16-vs-7.png

Is the debate done now? I hear silence.

[Bronbron23]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6r8vpxg/MJ-had-more-help-16-vs-7.png

LeBron turned 7 selections into 4 rings/FMVPs = 57.1% rate
Jordan turned 16 selections into 6 rings/FMVPs = 37.5% rate

LeBron wins again bois :pimp:

Another bron stan exposing his intelligence or lack thereof. So basically what your saying is mj only lost once when he had a teammate who was all defensive and or all nba. That was of course in 95 when mj came back after almost 2 years off. Bron on the otherhand has lost numerous times with the same. he lost in 10, 11, 15 and 20. Thanks good to know :facepalm

[TheCorporation]

Another bron stan exposing his intelligence or lack thereof. So basically what your saying is mj only lost once when he had a teammate who was all defensive and or all nba. That was of course in 95 when mj came back after almost 2 years off. Bron on the otherhand has lost numerous times with the same. he lost in 10, 11, 15 and 20. Thanks good to know :facepalm

You seem a bit slow but I'm not surprised since that seems to be your theme on this board

https://i.postimg.cc/8cP08dmy/MJ-needed-way-more-help-16-to-7.png

MJ has 16 all NBA/Defensive teammate selections. LeBron had 7. Any questions?

[steezy]

Do one for Magic/Bird. Just imagine it being 20+ selections each :lol

[HylianNightmare]

Leneedsmorehelp

[And1AllDay]

You seem a bit slow but I'm not surprised since that seems to be your theme on this board

https://i.postimg.cc/8cP08dmy/MJ-needed-way-more-help-16-to-7.png

MJ has 16 all NBA/Defensive teammate selections. LeBron had 7. Any questions?

hol up are you saying mike had over tow timwes more better help 16 to 7 and mike faced weaker opponents??

3baLLLLLĹLLL?

[Bronbron23]

You seem a bit slow but I'm not surprised since that seems to be your theme on this board

https://i.postimg.cc/8cP08dmy/MJ-needed-way-more-help-16-to-7.png

MJ has 16 all NBA/Defensive teammate selections. LeBron had 7. Any questions?

Already proved why this is a retarded narrative but you can keep repeating the idiocy of it if you want. You seem to do that well.

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron played with Shaq, AD, Wade, Rose, Irving, Love, Ben Wallace, Dwight Howard, now Melo, Westbrook, etc.
And He has played with 3 guys who won league mvp, a few guys who won 3x DPOY or more as well and a few others who won finals mvp.

[SaintzFury13]

Another bron stan exposing his intelligence or lack thereof. So basically what your saying is mj only lost once when he had a teammate who was all defensive and or all nba. That was of course in 95 when mj came back after almost 2 years off. Bron on the otherhand has lost numerous times with the same. he lost in 10, 11, 15 and 20. Thanks good to know :facepalm

MJ lost in 95 because they were missing that interior defensive presence that they at least had with Horace Grant. Dennis Rodman was able to fill that hole nicely the following season though.

[ELITEpower23]

Leneedsmorehelp

Yeah no, that was Jordan. MJ turned 16 selections into 6 rings while LBJ turned only 7 selections in 4 rings. Jordan always needed more help, against lesser competition to boot.

[GrayGoat]

Facts on top of facts

[ELITEpower23]

You seem a bit slow but I'm not surprised since that seems to be your theme on this board

https://i.postimg.cc/8cP08dmy/MJ-needed-way-more-help-16-to-7.png

MJ has 16 all NBA/Defensive teammate selections. LeBron had 7. Any questions?

Have we figured this one out yet?

[Cyrus334]

90 % of those selections came from Scottie lol. OP made it seem like it was spread out between players. I dont think anyone will argue that Jordan had the best 2nd option avaliable during the 90's. Playing next to him for over 10 years will obviously produce a resume like that. Jordan had more individual help when it came to his 2nd option but its not even a debate whose had more help when it comes to the quality of players played with when we're factoring in that player's resume before, during, and after teaming up with Jordan/Lebron.

I mean just look at this graph:

https://i.ibb.co/x1vQr2k/free-t-chart-template.png

Every single player on Lebron's side has made multiple all star teams before ever teaming up with him while on Jordan's side, only Scottie and Rodman did. Sure, guys like Allen, Howard, Carmelo, and Rondo aren't or weren't in their primes when they played with him but even at old age in a lesser role, they're still more impactful then everyday roleplayers like Paxson or Harper who never even made all star teams during their entire careers before or after playing with Jordan.

[2much_knowledge]

Occupation: grasp at straws and give half truths that old school fans can debunk easily

[TheCorporation]

https://i.postimg.cc/8cP08dmy/MJ-needed-way-more-help-16-to-7.png

MJ has 16 all NBA/Defensive teammate selections. LeBron had 7. Anyone?

[kawhileonard2]

90 % of those selections came from Scottie lol. OP made it seem like it was spread out between players. I dont think anyone will argue that Jordan had the best 2nd option avaliable during the 90's. Playing next to him for over 10 years will obviously produce a resume like that. Jordan had more individual help when it came to his 2nd option but its not even a debate whose had more help when it comes to the quality of players played with when we're factoring in that player's resume before, during, and after teaming up with Jordan/Lebron.

I mean just look at this graph:

https://i.ibb.co/x1vQr2k/free-t-chart-template.png

Every single player on Lebron's side has made multiple all star teams before ever teaming up with him while on Jordan's side, only Scottie and Rodman did. Sure, guys like Allen, Howard, Carmelo, and Rondo aren't or weren't in their primes when they played with him but even at old age in a lesser role, they're still more impactful then everyday roleplayers like Paxson or Harper who never even made all star teams during their entire careers before or after playing with Jordan.

Also Shaq and Ben Wallace

[Cyrus334]

Also Shaq and Ben Wallace

Oh wow I forgot about them. They played with him before he was in his prime though so to be fair let's exclude them but regardless, the graph clearly shows who had more help from top to bottom.

[kawhileonard2]

Oh wow I forgot about them. They played with him before he was in his prime though so to be fair let's exclude them but regardless, the graph clearly shows who had more help from top to bottom.

2009 and 2010 Lebron won league mvp and that's when they played with him.

[Johnny32]

90 % of those selections came from Scottie lol. OP made it seem like it was spread out between players. I dont think anyone will argue that Jordan had the best 2nd option avaliable during the 90's. Playing next to him for over 10 years will obviously produce a resume like that. Jordan had more individual help when it came to his 2nd option but its not even a debate whose had more help when it comes to the quality of players played with when we're factoring in that player's resume before, during, and after teaming up with Jordan/Lebron.

I mean just look at this graph:

https://i.ibb.co/x1vQr2k/free-t-chart-template.png

Every single player on Lebron's side has made multiple all star teams before ever teaming up with him while on Jordan's side, only Scottie and Rodman did. Sure, guys like Allen, Howard, Carmelo, and Rondo aren't or weren't in their primes when they played with him but even at old age in a lesser role, they're still more impactful then everyday roleplayers like Paxson or Harper who never even made all star teams during their entire careers before or after playing with Jordan.

harper avg 23, 5 and 5 as a rookie in the terrible 80s.

[Johnny32]

notice how jordone fans are still desperately trying to compare supporting casts across eras instead of jordan's help vs his opp's help and the same for lebron. i wonder why?

[Johnny32]

this is why, btw. let's look at a random bulls playoff run.

1998 bulls playoff opp's...top 2 players.

1st rd vs nets. leading scorer s. douglas (18, 8, 3), second leading scorer k. kittles (16, 5, 3)
2nd rd vs cha. leading scorer glen rice (23, 5, 2). second leading scorer anthony mason (13, 7, 4)
3rd rd vs in. leading scorer reggie miller (17, 2, 2). second leading scorer rik smits (15, 5, 1)
finals vs uta. leading scorer malone (25, 11, 4) second leading scorer hornacek (11, 3, 3)

let's do it for lebron's last championship.

1st rd vs por. leading scorer lillard (24, 4, 4). second leading scorer cj mcc (23, 6, 3)
2nd rd vs hou. leading scorer harden (29, 7, 5). second leading scorer westbrook (19, 7, 5)
3rd rd vs den. leading scorer murray (25, 7, 4). second leading scorer jokic (22, 7, 5)
finals vs mia. leading scorer butler (26, 10, 8). second leading scorer herro (15, 4, 3)

hurrr, lebron's competition > jordone's competition, durrr

[theman93]

this is why, btw. let's look at a random bulls playoff run.

1998 bulls playoff opp's...top 2 players.

1st rd vs nets. leading scorer s. douglas (18, 8, 3), second leading scorer k. kittles (16, 5, 3)
2nd rd vs cha. leading scorer glen rice (23, 5, 2). second leading scorer anthony mason (13, 7, 4)
3rd rd vs in. leading scorer reggie miller (17, 2, 2. second leading scorer rik smits (15, 5, 1)
finals vs uta. leading scorer malone (25, 11, 4) second leading scorer hornacek (11, 3, 3)

let's do it for lebron's last championship.

1st rd vs por. leading scorer lillard (24, 4, 4). second leading scorer cj mcc (23, 6, 3)
2nd rd vs hou. leading scorer harden (29, 7, 5). second leading scorer westbrook (19, 7, 5)
3rd rd vs den. leading scorer murray (25, 7, 4). second leading scorer jokic (22, 7, 5)
finals vs mia. leading scorer butler (26, 10, 8). second leading scorer herro ((15, 4, 3)

hurrr, lebron's competition > jordone's competition, durrr

:facepalm

1998 Pace: 90.3

2020 Pace: 100.3

[Johnny32]

:facepalm

1998 Pace: 90.3

2020 Pace: 100.3

i'll take completely missing the point for 100, alex.

[kawhileonard2]

Also Shaq and Ben Wallace

This!

[theman93]

i'll take completely missing the point for 100, alex.

You used points, rebounds and assists as a basis for why Lebron's 2020 playoff opponents were greater than Jordan's 1998 playoff opponents. First of all that's flawed as Lebron's competitions stats are inflated playing at a 100.3 pace compared to 90.3. Secondly, it's a team game not an individual game. Thirdly, Lebron's 2020 playoff run was in a bubble.

[Johnny32]

You used points, rebounds and assists as a basis for why Lebron's 2020 playoff opponents were greater than Jordan's 1998 playoff opponents. First of all that's flawed as Lebron's competitions stats are inflated playing at a 100.3 pace compared to 90.3. Secondly, it's a team game not an individual game. Thirdly, Lebron's 2020 playoff run was in a bubble.

it's like she can't read or comprehend anything i typed.

[TheCorporation]

No need for fairy tale scenarios where 2013 Ray Allen is being considered the same as 2006 Ray Allen or 2020 Dwight Howard is being considerd the same as 2009 Dwight Howard :lol I just used all NBA Selections during the years they actually played with MJ/LBJ. Again, no fairy tale stories like Cyrus

Here's the proof:

https://i.postimg.cc/8cP08dmy/MJ-needed-way-more-help-16-to-7.png

MJ had 16 all NBA/Defensive teammate selections while LeBron only had 7. Comments?

[Johnny32]

when you're playing the likes of sherman douglas, kerry kittles, glen rice, anthony mason, etc...it's understandable why they refuse to compare jordan's help vs his opp's help and instead desperately try to compare jordan's help vs lebron's help in a far more skilled highly competitive nba with stars all over every team. stop letting these desperate little nerds get away with it.

[Cyrus334]

No need for fairy tale scenarios where 2013 Ray Allen is being considered the same as 2006 Ray Allen or 2020 Dwight Howard is being considerd the same as 2009 Dwight Howard :lol I just used all NBA Selections during the years they actually played with MJ/LBJ. Again, no fairy tale stories like Cyrus

Here's the proof:

https://i.postimg.cc/8cP08dmy/MJ-needed-way-more-help-16-to-7.png

MJ had 16 all NBA/Defensive teammate selections while LeBron only had 7. Comments?

I literally said they weren't in their primes when they teamed up with him. Can you not read? I added them to the list because they were still solid contributers on Lebron's teams when they played together and not just riding the bench for a cheap ring.


when you're playing the likes of sherman douglas, kerry kittles, glen rice, anthony mason, etc...it's understandable why they refuse to compare jordan's help vs his opp's help and instead desperately try to compare jordan's help vs lebron's help in a far more skilled highly competitive nba with stars all over every team. stop letting these desperate little nerds get away with it.

Aren't you that loser from Gamefaq's that does nothing but make Lebron slurp thread/comments? Go back over there.

[Johnny32]

fun facts below.

jordan had more all nba help (i won't bother with all def) in 3 of his 6 finals. only once (91 vs lal) did his opp have more all nba help. and in that series worthy hurt his ankle in the wcf and re-injured it in the finals and was a dnp in gm 5.

lebron had more all nba help in 1 of his 9 finals as a first option (2020 vs mia)

[Johnny32]

Aren't you that loser from Gamefaq's that does nothing but make Lebron slurp thread/comments? Go back over there.

since you seem so upset by my presence i think i'll stick around.

[TheGoatest]

Not only that, but none of Jordan's all-defensive teammates missed a single solitary playoff game in the 6 Bulls championship runs.
Whereas between LeBron's "stacked" teammates Wade, Bosh, Love, Kyrie and AD, they missed like 30 playoff games between them, including finals.

[SATAN]

Not only that, but none of Jordan's all-defensive teammates missed a single solitary playoff game in the 6 Bulls championship runs.
Whereas between LeBron's "stacked" teammates Wade, Bosh, Love, Kyrie and AD, they missed like 30 playoff games between them, including finals.

Exactly.

[TheCorporation]

No need for fairy tale scenarios where 2013 Ray Allen is being considered the same as 2006 Ray Allen or 2020 Dwight Howard is being considerd the same as 2009 Dwight Howard :lol I just used all NBA Selections during the years they actually played with MJ/LBJ. Again, no fairy tale stories like Cyrus

Here's the proof:

https://i.postimg.cc/8cP08dmy/MJ-needed-way-more-help-16-to-7.png

MJ had 16 all NBA/Defensive teammate selections while LeBron only had 7. Comments?

Guys?

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron played with 3 guys who won league mvp in Shaq, Rose, Westbrook and didn't win shi*. He also played with two guys who won 3x DPOY in Dwight and Ben Wallace and still the same.

[MrFonzworth]

Damn OP has spent over 10 years talking to himself on ISH:roll:He has like 5 alts itt alone:yaohappy:

[Spurs m8]

This guy is in all out damange control :roll:

Keep going, Corp...we are all laughing at you, in pity

[2much_knowledge]

Damn. Last night has these people in grief, spewing nonesense to feel better. Its ok...maybe next year