Whenever the Bulls needed high assists (over 8 apg), MJ was the only option

[3ba11]

Pippen wasn't capable of getting over 8 apg and Jordan assisted 33% more often than Pippen.. Pippen lacked a breakdown handle needed for high assists

The entire narrative that he was the "facilitator" is false, despite various players and coaches saying so - they're just throwing Pippen a bone because he was a low-producer without much to praise him for offensively...

That's why the facilitator label arose - it was charity for Pippen even though he only averaged 5 apg - "facilitator" is a euphemism for a 5 APG player

[8Ball]

As a stat padder:


"The guys at the scorer's desk let me know what I need," Jordan said.

So, too, do the Bulls' assistant coaches.

"They keep reminding me when I get back to the huddle," Jordan said. "They say, 'You need three more of this. You need four more of that.' "

:roll:

LeBron averaged 10 apg in his championship 2020 year without stat padding. :applause:

[ELITEpower23]

As a stat padder:



:roll:

LeBron averaged 10 apg in his championship 2020 year without stat padding. :applause:

1st post slays really are the best. R.I.P. to OP

[j3lademaster]

OP, who's the worst player you think the Bulls could have replaced Pippen with and still won 6? Considering all other things equal.

[8Ball]

Imagine LeBron getting basketball advice from guys at the "scorers desk" so he can pad some more assists.


Jordan really is beneath LeBron.

[j3lademaster]

Imagine LeBron getting basketball advice from guys at the "scorers desk" so he can pad some more assists.


Jordan really is beneath LeBron.https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2520602/lestats.0.gif

Doesn't he though?

edit: why are we using paper in this day and age isn't the NBA a multibillion dollar organization?

[ELITEpower23]

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/2520602/lestats.0.gif

Doesn't he though?

edit: why are we using paper in this day and age isn't the NBA a multibillion dollar organization?

He's looking at Kuzma's trade value.

[j3lademaster]

He's looking at Kuzma's trade value.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l3E6uhDAN3W7vylji/giphy.gif

[8Ball]

He's looking at Kuzma's trade value.

hahahahahah


He is looking at overall team performance statistically. Who is shooting well, who isn't.

[3ba11]

OP, who's the worst player you think the Bulls could have replaced Pippen with and still won 6? Considering all other things equal.


Short answer: Smits/Miller nearly beat the Bulls and Lakers (goat teams), so Smits/MJ would win every year with those same Pacer casts (great defenses and rebounding).

So any top 10 defense and a sidekick that can get 16 ppg reliably will 3-peat with prime MJ.



Longer answer: People think that Jordan benefitted by having a playmaker like Pippen to set him up.

But Pippen averaged 5 assists, so he was a mid-tier playmaker and nowhere near top playmakers like Harden or Stockton - Jordan would benefit more with an elite playmaker like these guys that could take over and set him up a lot more than Pippen did.. Pippen never really set Jordan up that well and his benefit to Jordan in this area was completely overblown if not fabricated entirely.

Furthermore, the 1st three-peat Bulls had the #7 defense and only 2 scorers (MJ, Pippen), while the 09/10 Cavs had a better defense and more scorers.. So the Bulls never had much talent in their cast - a medium-producing sidekick like Pippen + role players isn't much help... That's why new fans are pretty shocked to see how thin the roster was for a 6-time champ, so they overrate and lionize low-producers like Pippen, Grant, Kerr, Harper, and everyone..

And I think that many people don't know how great other players were - KJ dominated Magic and Hakeem with all-time stats in the playoffs and his everyday standard was 20/10 - otoh, Pippen wasn't a 20/10 guy and never played anywhere near KJ's performances against Hakeem or Magic... It's night and day - if the 93' Suns had a healthy KJ, they would've destroyed the Bulls or forced MJ to average 50 to win.

So again - KJ and MJ in the backcourt with a regular player like Horry, Augmon or Pete Myers at SF would be a far better roster than they had with Pippen, and MJ might turn Augmon or Myers into another Pippen anyway because it's a low bar... And btw, any elite playmaker is going to win easier than a mid-tier playmaker like Pippen.

Pippen was a good player, but he played much worse than Reggie Miller in 6 of 6 times they played the same comp in the playoffs, while Miller also had legendary deep runs in the Playoffs... Furthermore, Pippen's best wasn't anywhere near guys like KJ, Kemp or Stockton, or their everyday standard (20/10, aka superior scorer/passer or scorer/rebounder) - Kemp was a legit 1st option on a Finals team and nearly won FMVP.. Ultimately, Pippen was just an athlete - a dunker - a defender (cowherd describes pippen well here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=276s)).... Iggy was basically just as good despite his development stifled by the original ball-dominator (iverson)

[j3lademaster]

Short answer:
And I think that many people don't know how great other players were - KJ dominated Magic and Hakeem with all-time stats in the playoffs and his everyday standard was 20/10 - otoh, Pippen wasn't a 20/10 guy and never played anywhere near KJ's performances against Hakeem or Magic... It's night and day - if the 93' Suns had a healthy KJ, they would've destroyed the Bulls or forced MJ to average 50 to win.Yeah a lot of players get underrated from that era. David Robinson is the big name that pops out, too. If he were in the draft today we would be talking about him like some all-time great prospect but he played in Shaq and Hakeem's era where one center was more physically gifted than he was and the other center was more skilled so he gets overlooked. KJ was never the same after an injury as I recall but there was a time he was just a tier below RW and Drose in terms of explosiveness from the pg position.

Then factor in the lack of rings. Great players without rings will always get underrated as historically.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVcSndz52DE

Not a lot of 6'3 and under guys I can think of who can do THAT.

[TheCorporation]

He's looking at Kuzma's trade value.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l3E6uhDAN3W7vylji/giphy.gif