Change my mind: The NBA's rule tampering the past few years is crippling team USA

[hiphopanonymous]

In the NBA, it is now illegal to defend with physicality (hand contact) both on and off ball. Fighting through screens causes fouls. On the other end setting moving screens for these wide open offensive players is actually not called and now legal. Offensive players routinely are moving both of their feet before dribbling and it's totally normal. Extended interpretation of the gather step is routinely allowing every player to now execute moves where very long distances are traveled without dribbling either to the basket or away from a defender. Most people are ok with it because the NBA is what we consider the frontier setting trends that often eventually follow in other leagues. But international competition hasn't fully bought into all of this and the USA players are as a result a step behind the competition rather than in front of it.

https://streamable.com/wklbz7

Just look at this. It's like LaVine is learning what traveling actually is for the first time. He isn't of course, he probably learned this a decade ago but he's so out of rhythm with it since he's adjusted to NBA rules. Basketball has to be muscle memory, and if it isn't in your muscle memory how to explode into a move then you're going to be behind the competition that is already familiar with how to do moves under the international rules.

Unless you can change my mind I'm convinced this banned-defense/wide-open-offense era is exposing the USA basketball team.

[coastalmarker99]

Hopefully, it’s the wake up call the league needs. I know this is an unpopular sentiment for most younger fans but the NBA game is down the drain right now. Nearly every possession is a pick and roll, switch onto a big, dribble dribble dirbble, 3 pointer or bullshit foul call. It sucks to watch most of the time

[coastalmarker99]

The NBA style of basketball has gone way too far in favour of the offence.

Getting rid of the unnatural jumping into defenders is the first move that needs to be removed. The rip-through shouldn't be far behind.


Stats are getting so inflated because of the freedom of movement rule it is insane.

Also it’s ridiculous how much big men get called for offensive fouls when they back down a mismatch

[coastalmarker99]

NBA's soft officiating's goal is to scare defenders off and give offensive players space on jump shots and no resistance on their drives. That gets you 40 point triple-doubles, everyone averaging 27 ppg and a scoring or shooting record getting broken every night.

Ja, Tatum, Booker, Young, Mitchell, Doncic all had "historic" playoffs this year with gaudy stats and are now being compared to legends who did it for 15-16 years.

NBA has achieved its goal of creating new superstars, but they screwed defences and normalized flopping to do it.

It’s why I’m not impressed with a lot of modern scoring threats. Hell, even the finals are dreadful to watch. In-game one booker got to the line for 8 free throws in the first quarter just from shooting jump shots

If Jordan had that kind of whistle he would average over 40 points per game.

[MadDog]

What is and isn't a travel. What is and isn't a foul. Both are big factors here, and the main reason USA need time to adjust - besides obviously playing together. Some will say all USA needs to do is send their best talent, but what those idiots don't understand is the world catching up in both TALENT, and style of play. The gold medal games were close in 2008 and 2012. Spain was right there.

Internationally, teams have improved a lot since then and will continue to. But yes, the rules play a large role. You can see it in their body language. Lillard and Durant looking around for fouls while their opponent keeps on trucking.

[FKAri]

We've been tampering ever since we got rid of peach baskets and allowed dribbling.

[theman93]

Ticky tack contact our players use to flop like they got smacked by godzilla to bait refs into foul calls has made these boys soft.

On top of that, the amount of offensive fouls that get called as defensive fouls is ridiculous. For example, a shooter pump faking at the 3 point line and then hurling himself at his defender even though the defender barely even left his feet or moved any closer.

[coastalmarker99]

Ticky tack contact our players use to flop like they got smacked by godzilla to bait refs into foul calls has made these boys soft.

On top of that, the amount of offensive fouls that get called as defensive fouls is ridiculous. For example, a shooter pump faking at the 3 point line and then hurling himself at his defender even though the defender barely even left his feet or moved any closer.

Just think about Lebron and Giannis playing under the rules that Wilt played under when it came to offensive fouls here is an example.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-XTPVBOCLw


This is also why Russell (6'9", 220 pounds) wouldn't have a prayer of guarding Wilt if they played with modern NBA rules. He was only able to defend him because Wilt couldn't use his size and strength the way that Shaq and other modern big men could.

[2much_knowledge]

Exactly one of the many reasons its hilarious when people with their recency bias and prisoner of the moment tendency try to convince people that this brand of basketball is the most special and difficult lol

The Nba can fool you but not me

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt Chamberlain said before he died!

If they called fouls the way they did nowadays and allowed him to get away with murder as Shaq did in the post that he would have averaged 60 to 65 points per game.

[Druckenmiller]

The NBA has basically outlawed defense, and most games during the regular season feature the kind of defensive resistance and shot selection that used to be the norm in the all-star game.

There’s zero physicality anywhere on the court, and anytime anyone gets their ***** touched they stop the game and debate how egregious the act was. It’s become pathetic on a level that would make any 12 year old girls team blush.

But in international play the bigger issue is how the NBA game is played. It is an exercise of beat man off dribble, often due to a ball screen and switch, and then pitch it out to an open 3-point shooter.

Everybody on the court, except for the person with the ball, and the person setting the screen, is standing stationary waiting for the ball to be kicked out to them.

This is what I see with Team USA, only, since defense is allowed in international play, the ball handler has a much harder time creating breakdowns and open shots for stationary teammates. The other four guys are standing around waiting for something that isn’t coming.

This means we have a bunch of guys chucking contested iso shots, and no matter how good you are, it is difficult to play iso basketball.

Australia, on the other hand, did not just stand around and watch a guy dribble the ball. They moved off the ball, set off ball screens and got a ton of easy baskets, especially in the second half.

If you doubt me, go back and rewatch the Australia game and count the number of meaningful off ball cuts by team USA, and the number of meaningful off ball cuts by Australia. I promise you it’s 20-1 ration if not more.

Good basketball is played by the four guys who do not have the ball. We have guys who have no idea what to do when they’re not actually in possession of the ball, so they don’t do anything.

That’s how you get beat by a bunch of marginal and inferior individual players. I see that all the time at every level of play.

[Micku]

Wilt Chamberlain said before he died!

If they called fouls the way they did nowadays and allowed him to get away with murder as Shaq did in the post that he would have averaged 60 to 65 points per game.

It's why it's silly to compare across eras. While the core of the game is the same, but they played under different rules. Some of the things that work now, won't work back then. Some of the philosophy back then, isn't as efficient as the philosophy now. You adjust with the rules set. It's all the little things that the fans might not see.

The way they dribble today is a travel in the 80s and below.

[Orange_Cassidy]

if only spanoulis showed up to the nba during this era. he might have been the nba goat instead of the Euroleague goat

[ShawkFactory]

Wilt Chamberlain said before he died!

If they called fouls the way they did nowadays and allowed him to get away with murder as Shaq did in the post that he would have averaged 60 to 65 points per game.

I mean is he still in a league with 6'7 centers? And is he still taking 35-40 shots a game?

[tpols]

We've been calling it the WWE for a while now. Most stars just play for the call, and they get it. Offensive players can hit defenders, but defenders can't lay a pinky on them on ball.

[tpols]

On top of that, the amount of offensive fouls that get called as defensive fouls is ridiculous.


Worst thing about the NBA. Defender gets ran over like a mack truck. *Goes to slow mo review* Aha! Look! Defenders right pinky toe was MOVING! Give that man his FTs.

[hiphopanonymous]

I mean is he still in a league with 6'7 centers? And is he still taking 35-40 shots a game?

Just an FYI today IS the era with 6-7 centers, back then was the era of legitimate bigs anchoring teams so you've got it backwards. 6 foot 5 Draymond played center quite often on the Warriors dynasty team. Recent Cavs had 6 foot 7 and change Tristan Thompson playing center alongside 6-7 and change Kevin Love at PF. Teams routinely don't just play - but win - by fielding 'small' bigs in this era.

[hiphopanonymous]

Worst thing about the NBA. Defender gets ran over like a mack truck. *Goes to slow mo review* Aha! Look! Defenders right pinky toe was MOVING! Give that man his FTs.
Yes and this doesn't fly internationally. I saw Kevin Durant get blocked driving in for a dunk against Nigeria like he was a small child. It wasn't even dramatic the defender was just like *plink* and Durant hit the ground like he was a middle school kid learning how to play still. I watched the replay several times trying to figure out why this doesn't often happen in the NBA and why he suddenly looked so easy to block in international play and I concluded that he was not even remotely expecting that kind of contesting because that kind of contesting is so heavily penalized in the NBA. It is a guaranteed foul to try to stop shots like that in the NBA. So nobody even tries anymore. Makes guys like Durant or any other person attacking the rim look immortal but as soon as the rules flex away from offense and lean toward defense suddenly they're human again - funny.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtA0gvOuno

The play looked easy. Durant looked really unprepared. It's the way the NBA players are conditioned vs the International guys - they know how to play defense a certain way which is still allowed in the International game and the NBA players look like they are high school kids out there against it - not expecting defenses to actually get in there and defend the rim like that through continuation and whatnot. Refs would have blown the whistle on instinct (just to be on the safe side since Durant certainly is in the category for that treatment). Reviewed that play while the announcers discuss who the foul might've been against - then concluded the guy Durant blew by hit him in the back and shoved him awkwardly thus FT's. Block would have been washed.

[Lebron23]

Yes and this doesn't fly internationally. I saw Kevin Durant get blocked driving in for a dunk against Nigeria like he was a small child. It wasn't even dramatic the defender was just like *plink* and Durant hit the ground like he was a middle school kid learning how to play still. I watched the replay several times trying to figure out why this doesn't often happen in the NBA and why he suddenly looked so easy to block in international play and I concluded that he was not even remotely expecting that kind of contesting because that kind of contesting is so heavily penalized in the NBA. It is a guaranteed foul to try to stop shots like that in the NBA. So nobody even tries anymore. Makes guys like Durant or any other person attacking the rim look immortal but as soon as the rules flex away from offense and lean toward defense suddenly they're human again - funny.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtA0gvOuno

The play looked easy. Durant looked really unprepared. It's the way the NBA players are conditioned vs the International guys - they know how to play defense a certain way which is still allowed in the International game and the NBA players look like they are high school kids out there against it - not expecting defenses to actually get in there and defend the rim like that through continuation and whatnot. Refs would have blown the whistle on instinct (just to be on the safe side since Durant certainly is in the category for that treatment). Reviewed that play while the announcers discuss who the foul might've been against - then concluded the guy Durant blew by hit him in the back and shoved him awkwardly thus FT's. Block would have been washed.

No defensive 3 seconds in fiba basketball. And they are also allowed to play real zone defense. That's why Jordan hated playing zone defense in college.

[tpols]

Yes and this doesn't fly internationally. I saw Kevin Durant get blocked driving in for a dunk against Nigeria like he was a small child. It wasn't even dramatic the defender was just like *plink* and Durant hit the ground like he was a middle school kid learning how to play still. I watched the replay several times trying to figure out why this doesn't often happen in the NBA and why he suddenly looked so easy to block in international play and I concluded that he was not even remotely expecting that kind of contesting because that kind of contesting is so heavily penalized in the NBA. It is a guaranteed foul to try to stop shots like that in the NBA. So nobody even tries anymore. Makes guys like Durant or any other person attacking the rim look immortal but as soon as the rules flex away from offense and lean toward defense suddenly they're human again - funny.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtA0gvOuno

The play looked easy. Durant looked really unprepared. It's the way the NBA players are conditioned vs the International guys - they know how to play defense a certain way which is still allowed in the International game and the NBA players look like they are high school kids out there against it - not expecting defenses to actually get in there and defend the rim like that through continuation and whatnot. Refs would have blown the whistle on instinct (just to be on the safe side since Durant certainly is in the category for that treatment). Reviewed that play while the announcers discuss who the foul might've been against - then concluded the guy Durant blew by hit him in the back and shoved him awkwardly thus FT's. Block would have been washed.

Go watch game 4 of the Nets vs Bucks this year to see what Durant is all about.


https://youtu.be/nX0KI32h4d0

I'm not young enough to forget Artest and Tony Allen putting him in a straight jacket. KD relies on soft NBA / WWE reffing to facilitate his dominance. The only exception to that is when he played off Chef Currys GOAT action for wide open dunks and 3s.

[Phoenix]

Good basketball is played by the four guys who do not have the ball. We have guys who have no idea what to do when they’re not actually in possession of the ball, so they don’t do anything.



Great comment.

[hiphopanonymous]

Team USA Won yesterday but more of the same bad habits glaringly obvious:

https://streamable.com/vxzlqu

Look at all that attempted ref manipulation. "Aye!?" on the way in from drives that clearly they just stumbled and fell and had zero prayers of making a good shot - off balance 3's strictly to lean in and bump the defender. Would have been NBA Fouls. Great job by FIBA refs not calling any of that weak shit. NBA should take notice and ref their own games that way and maybe the games wouldn't take so long and be a bit more watchable and maybe we wouldn't get embarrassed when our stars play games without preferential treatment. (They won't though, they prefer it this way, more ad revenue the longer they can stretch a game and the bigger the superstar stats and superstar treatment the bigger the golden egg). Just exposes our players as entitled and spoiled once we play International.

[Stephonit]

But aren't free throw attempts in the NBA at an all-time low?

[hiphopanonymous]

But aren't free throw attempts in the NBA at an all-time low?
I'm not sure actually has anyone got a stat on this? If so I'd wonder about context and it necessarily doesn't detract from my other observations. Is the increased 3pt FGA resulting in less 2's in congested situations that lead to fouls? And/or penalized defenses just makes players literally play less defense thus causing less FTA? Are FTA per 2 point FGA still as high as ever? (Like do players still bait hard for FT's on layups) Etc.

Once you realize what a foul is you tend to try to avoid it unless you are fouling on purpose in basketball. That often means compromising your defense. Like I said the rules are so heavily slanted toward offense how exactly can you defend in the NBA today? In international a lot more of these bait-looking plays with only 1 or 2 guys being involved on the offense are not being called and they look like straight up bad possessions. The other teams meanwhile are playing 5 on 5 and rarely fishing for the call. So far we're 1 win 2 losses.

[ZenMaster]

In the NBA, it is now illegal to defend with physicality (hand contact) both on and off ball. Fighting through screens causes fouls. On the other end setting moving screens for these wide open offensive players is actually not called and now legal. Offensive players routinely are moving both of their feet before dribbling and it's totally normal. Extended interpretation of the gather step is routinely allowing every player to now execute moves where very long distances are traveled without dribbling either to the basket or away from a defender. Most people are ok with it because the NBA is what we consider the frontier setting trends that often eventually follow in other leagues. But international competition hasn't fully bought into all of this and the USA players are as a result a step behind the competition rather than in front of it.

https://streamable.com/wklbz7

Just look at this. It's like LaVine is learning what traveling actually is for the first time. He isn't of course, he probably learned this a decade ago but he's so out of rhythm with it since he's adjusted to NBA rules. Basketball has to be muscle memory, and if it isn't in your muscle memory how to explode into a move then you're going to be behind the competition that is already familiar with how to do moves under the international rules.

Unless you can change my mind I'm convinced this banned-defense/wide-open-offense era is exposing the USA basketball team.

NBA travelling rules and enforcement sucks. That "aye" clip of Lillard is hilarious, in the NBA game setting it has become natural and the bench + the crowd will usually make noise about the no call if on the home floor, mix that in with a dramatic commentator call of "Oh Lillard takes contact but doesn't get the call", leaving it to the audience to consider the potential foul.
But without all of that, Lillard just looks like a kid playing against someone two years older than himself, not having the fundamentals and body coordination to figure out that he wasn't going to beat his man, jump stop, pivot and find a teammate off a cut.

It all comes down to refs and what the allow, players will act and spend time accordingly to work on skills that fits the enforcement of rules. It looks ridiculous when they call a foul when an shooter is jumping clearly sideways or way too much forward compared to what is natural, and you can tell that players have been working on it, leading to the huge increase in 4pt plays.

[KirbyPls]

Go watch game 4 of the Nets vs Bucks this year to see what Durant is all about.


https://youtu.be/nX0KI32h4d0

I'm not young enough to forget Artest and Tony Allen putting him in a straight jacket. KD relies on soft NBA / WWE reffing to facilitate his dominance. The only exception to that is when he played off Chef Currys GOAT action for wide open dunks and 3s.

When you're right, you're right. :applause:

[97 bulls]

Where's all these pro todays NBA fans at to present a rebuttal? The fact is the NBA today is much easier to score than in the past. These video game like stats need to be taken with context.