Top-2 GOAT all-time

[red1]

Urgent reminder - Kareem is the only true GOAT competitor to leGOAT

[The Closer]

Nope, Bill Russell is the clear GOAT, you kids can argue about whoever comes second out of Jordan,Kareem,Kobe, Lebron...

https://i.postimg.cc/sxsmkH7c/6288c34cc22c93ba25696040452b5724.jpg

[DevBooker'sMask]

I like to do tiers at this point and stage of the game so that means tier A goes to Jordan, Russell, Lebron, Kareem

[red1]

Nope, Bill Russell is the clear GOAT, you kids can argue about whoever comes second out of Jordan,Kareem,Kobe, Lebron...

https://i.postimg.cc/sxsmkH7c/6288c34cc22c93ba25696040452b5724.jpg

Top-3 GOAT no doubt :applause:

[ImKobe]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/ee/76/8eee760dd6f5f31e3e38c0542fedb609.gif

[red1]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/ee/76/8eee760dd6f5f31e3e38c0542fedb609.gif

GTFO



cool gif

[coastalmarker99]

If we took rings out of the goat debate and only focused on individual greatness as a player then Wilt would be the goat.


Because if all stats were all tracked during his career he would own 250 recordsHe would have the record for the most triple-doubles of all time.

He would have the record for the most quadruple doubles of all time.

He would have the record for most double triple-doubles of all time.

He would have the record for the most quintuple doubles of all time.

He would have the record for the most 60 and 70 point triple-doubles of all time.

He would have the record for the most blocks of all time

He would have the record for the most shots blocked in a game of all time both in the regular season and playoffs.

He would have the record for the most offensive rebounds of all time.

He would have the record for the most offensive rebounds grabbed in a single game both in the regular season and playoffs.

[coastalmarker99]

I mean all is that needs to be said is that Wilt for example had a total of 38 50 point games with an FG% of 50+, during the 1961-1962 NBA Season alone.


To put that into perspective Wilt has more 50 point games with an FG% of 50+, during the 1961-1962 NBA Season alone than every other player has 50 point games in their career.


Hell if we only use Wilt's 1961-1962 season for his career then he would still have the most 50 point games and 60 point games in NBA history by a large margin if that is not dominance then what is.

[getting_old]

Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bird/Magic
Michael
Kobe

[RogueBorg]

Nope, Bill Russell is the clear GOAT, you kids can argue about whoever comes second out of Jordan,Kareem,Kobe, Lebron...

https://i.postimg.cc/sxsmkH7c/6288c34cc22c93ba25696040452b5724.jpg

Bill Russell was mediocre at best offensively. In 1960 their were 8 teams in the NBA and by the time he retired there were only 14. Not enough competition. When you suck on one side of the ball you can't be the GOAT.

15.1 ppg
44% FG%
56% FT%

Best season scoring average was 18.9 ppg in 1961- '62 same season Wilt averaged 50 ppg and Baylor averaged 38 ppg. Russell sucked offensively.

[coastalmarker99]

Bill Russell was mediocre at best offensively. In 1960 their were 8 teams in the NBA and by the time he retired there were only 14. Not enough competition. When you suck on one side of the ball you can't be the GOAT.


You cant tell me if you swap Russell and Wilt.

That the Celtics still don't win a boatload of titles throughout the 1960s.


Wilt might be the only player ever who proved capable of being the best...at everything. Outside shooting aside I mean. But he could be called the best scorer, defender, playmaker, or rebounder depending on when. He had games with 100 points...games over 20 assists....55 rebounds.



He was far more unselfish than his reputation considering he totally gave up his scoring to play the old Russell role on the Lakers. And not like he lost scoring ability. He had two 60 point games the week after SI said he had declined as a scorer.



I still think Russell was very fortunate all his career. Was he still the best player on his title teams? Yes. Was he the main reason they won? Yes.

But Russell was fortunate enough to come right into the league and into the hands of arguably the GOAT coach. The GOAT coach. And on top of that, arguably a great backcourt (even today). And another HOF. That was how his career started. What luck.

Wilt did not get anything like that at the beginning of his career, and it was later did he start playing with HOF coaches and teammates. I think this has a lot to do with Russell being the winner he is.

Russell even once said that he doesn't think he'd be able to play with another coach other than Red. Red knew how to maximize his player's talents and how to handle them.

Russell got the correct treatment all the way. Imagine if he came into the league with a garbage coach, who didn't even care about defence, how would Russell's career fared? Maybe a ring? Trade here and there?

[coastalmarker99]

Bill Russell was mediocre at best offensively. In 1960 their were 8 teams in the NBA and by the time he retired there were only 14. Not enough competition. When you suck on one side of the ball you can't be the GOAT.

When up against the only guy in Wilt that could match up with him in terms of athleticism.

Here are Russell's stats

1959-1960 regular season in 11 H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 19.8 ppg, 23.7 rpg 3.5 APG 39.3 FG%


1960 ECF in six postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 20.7 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 44.6 FG%, and 2.8 APG.


1960-1961 in 13 H2H matchups vs Wilt

Russell: 18.8 ppg, 25.4 rpg, 39.8 FG%, and 3.6 APG


1961-62 in 10 regular season H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 18.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, 38.3 FG%, and 4.4 APG.


1962 ECF in seven postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 22.0 ppg, 25.9 rpg, .39.9. FG%, and 4.6 APG.


1962 -1963 in 9 regular season H2H's: vs Wilt

Russell: 15.3 ppg, 27.8 rpg, .38.14 FG%


1963-1964 in 8 regular season H2H vs Wilt

Russell 14.3 ppg, 25.3 rpg, 5 APG 39.81 FG%


1964 finals in five postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell 11.2 ppg, 25.2 rpg, 5.0 APG 38.6 FG%


1964 - 1965 in 11 regular season H2H vs Wilt

Russell 12.6 ppg, 22.2 rpg 4.6 APG, 28.1 FG%


1965 ECF in seven postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell 15.6 ppg, 25.1 rpg, 6.7 APG,44.7 FG%.


1965 -1966 in 9 regular season H2H vs Wilt

Russell: 9.4 ppg, 21.2 rpg, 4.9 APG, .30.1 FG%


1966 ECF in five postseson H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 14.0 ppg, 26.2 rpg, 5.6 APG, 42.4 FG%


1966 -1967 in 9 regular season H2H vs Wilt

Russell: 12.2 ppg, 21.1 rpg, 4.1 APG .44.7 FG%


1967 ECF in five postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 11.4 ppg, 23.4 rpg, 6.0 APG, 35.8 FG%


1967-1968 in 8 regular season H2H vs Wilt

Russell: 7.8 ppg, 17.5 rpg, 5.1 APG 29.1 FG%


1968 ECF in seven postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 13.7 ppg, 23.9 rpg, 4.1 APG, 44.0 FG%.


1968-69: in six regular-season H2H vs Wilt

Russell: 6.7 ppg, 15.8 rpg, 5.8 APG on 34.0 %FG


1969 finals in seven postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 9.1 ppg, 21.1 rpg, 5.1 APG on 39.7 %FG


The funny thing is that Russell had a ton of help in defending Chamberlain who shot over 50 to 55 percent against him while scoring 35 to 40 PPG.

Meanwhile, at the other end, Wilt not only played Russell, one-on-one, he was also defending the entire Celtic team at times.

And yet Russell somehow couldn't even manage to shoot over 30 percent against him despite being the fourth or fifth option for the Celtics on offence.

[8Ball]

Nope, Bill Russell is the clear GOAT, you kids can argue about whoever comes second out of Jordan,Kareem,Kobe, Lebron...

https://i.postimg.cc/sxsmkH7c/6288c34cc22c93ba25696040452b5724.jpg


This guy wouldn't get drafted #1 overall if he was put in the last 20 years of NBA drafts.

Can't shoot free throws and zero offensive game.

[coastalmarker99]

When people say Russell is the goat i get confused


As how came then Wilt was always usually ranked above Russell before his death in 1999

I mean we had ESPN in the 1990s debating Jordan vs Wilt for goat not Russell vs Jordan.

Plus


Wilt was voted First Team All-NBA, and ahead of Russell, in '60, '61, '62, '64, '66, '67, and '68...while Russell only beat him out in '63 and '65 (and neither were voted either first or second team in '69.)

In their ten years in the league together, Wilt was almost always considered the better player, and it started in his rookie season

[coastalmarker99]

in 1999, ESPN's "panel of experts" came out with their 100 greatest athletes of the 20th Century. Interesting, though in the NBA department, that Wilt came in second behind MJ (no surprise, since MJ had just come off a title run and retired.) With Magic 3rd, Russell 4th, and Kareem 5th.

So, what has taken place in the last 22 years? Did Russell come back and win some more rings? Hell no.

What this means, of course, is several things. One,... the narrative about Wilt has changed completely since his death as I repeat no all-time list beforehand had Russell over him.


Everybody I can remember was debating Wilt vs Jordan for goat in the 1990s as there is a reason why Jordan and Wilt argued with each other as to who is the goat at the NBA's 50 all-time event.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCrpLZfpH4

[8Ball]

Wilt was all time offensively with nearly every single tool in the toolbox except shooting 3s. Russell had 0 offensive capabilities.

I don't get how you can compare the two.

[RogueBorg]

You cant tell me if you swap Russell and Wilt.

That the Celtics still don't win a boatload of titles throughout the 1960s.



I agree with you. If you swap Wilt and Russell on the Celtics it would be Wilt wearing all the hardware not Russell. IMO, Abdul-Jabbar was the best center ever. He has the best combination of stats, accolades, and rings.

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt was all time offensively with nearly every single tool in the toolbox except shooting 3s. Russell had 0 offensive capabilities.

I don't get how you can compare the two.


Well actually look at this video which shows Wilt swishing four 3-point range hook shots in a row!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0IC8Nwkd1w

[Orange_Cassidy]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/ee/76/8eee760dd6f5f31e3e38c0542fedb609.gif

most people around the world say this tbh

[coastalmarker99]

I agree with you. If you swap Wilt and Russell on the Celtics it would be Wilt wearing all the hardware not Russell. IMO, Abdul-Jabbar was the best center ever. He has the best combination of stats, accolades, and rings.


Wilt is the BOAT center in terms of individual ability and talent in my eyes as my god that dude was a total freak of nature I mean just look at this video of his incredible speed despite him being 7 foot 1 and weighing 290 to 315 pounds


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6sQhV7ipks

[RogueBorg]

most people around the world say this tbh

I miss Kobe

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt was all time offensively with nearly every single tool in the toolbox except shooting 3s. Russell had 0 offensive capabilities.

I don't get how you can compare the two.

Wilt's fadeaway data in the games we have available of him are


1/3 Celtics vs Warriors 1960 RS

1/1 Celtics vs Warriors 1959 RS

1/1 Celtics vs Warriors 1961 RS

0/1 Celtics vs Warriors game 2 of 1964 finals

1/2 Celtics vs Warriors game 4 of 1964 finals

2/8 Warriors vs Lakers 1964 RS

2/3 Warriors vs Knicks 1964 RS

2/2 Warriors vs Knicks Wilt masked.

4/6 Warriors vs 76ers 1964-1965 RS

1/5 Celtics vs 76ers 1964-1965 RS

1/1 Celtics vs 76ers game 1 1965 ECF

1/2 Celtics vs 76ers game 6 1965 ECF

1/2 Celtics vs 76ers game 7 1965 ECF

3/3 game 3 of 1964 NBA finals.

1/2 game 4 of 1964 NBA finals

6/7- game 5 of 1964 NBA finals.

0/2 game 4 of 1967 ECF

0/2 game 6 of 1967 NBA finals

1/1


29/54

53.7 FG


A percentage of 53.7% is amazing and those are 10-16 fadeaway jumpers usually that Wilt was taking.…..


His worst games shooting wise with his fadeaway shot are shortly after his heart attack in the 1964 offseason and his game vs the Lakers in 64 when he had an injured leg.


It is crazy to think Shaq shot 70% from 0-3 and only 40% from 3-10 feet while Wilt was shooting 50+% from 10-16Ft


Wilt truthfully might be the GOAT fadeaway shooter alongside Dirk and every bit of footage we get of him shows us how skilful of a player Wilt truly was

[coastalmarker99]

I miss Kobe


He only has himself to blame for his early death as with that FOG in the sky which forced the The Los Angeles Police Air Support Division to ground its police helicopters on the morning of January 26 due to poor visibility and low ceiling.


Only one outcome was going to happen that day if he flew on a helicopter and that was his death along with his daughter

[ImKobe]

He only has himself to blame for his early death as with that FOG in the sky which forced the The Los Angeles Police Air Support Division to ground its police helicopters on the morning of January 26 due to poor visibility and low ceiling.


Only one outcome was going to happen that day if he flew on a helicopter and that was his death along with his daughter

He wasn't the pilot, blaming him for wanting to make it to his daughters' basketball game is going too far IMO.

[coastalmarker99]

He wasn't the pilot, blaming him for wanting to make it to his daughters' basketball game is going too far IMO.

Maybe it is too far for me to blame him for his death.


But it still pisses me off that he died so young as he still had so much to give to the game and the world.


It's a crime that when they honour the NBA's 75 greatest players next year at the All-Star game as they did in 1997 that Kobe won't be around for it.



Still, I have many contacts I talk to high up in the NBA's offices and they tell me that the NBA will honour Kobe in a very special way next season.



It should be noted that the NBA archives have a lot of never before seen Kobe footage locked in their vault so I would love it if they released all of that stuff to the general public.

[ImKobe]

Maybe it is too far for me to blame him for his death.


But it still pisses me off that he died so young as he still had so much to give to the game and the world.


It's a crime that when they honour the NBA's 75 greatest players next year at the All-Star game as they did in 1997 that Kobe won't be around for it.



Still, I have many contacts I talk to high up in the NBA's offices and they tell me that the NBA will honour Kobe in a very special way next season.



It should be noted that the NBA archives have a lot of never before seen Kobe footage locked in their vault so I would love it if they released all of that stuff to the general public.

Good stuff. It was tough not having Kobe there for his HOF speech or for the Lakers' championship last year.

[RogueBorg]

He only has himself to blame for his early death as with that FOG in the sky which forced the The Los Angeles Police Air Support Division to ground its police helicopters on the morning of January 26 due to poor visibility and low ceiling.


Only one outcome was going to happen that day if he flew on a helicopter and that was his death along with his daughter

Have you ever driven in Orange County traffic? It's a total nightmare. If I had the money I might have done the same thing. That being said, we do expect our pilots to be professional and to know what they're doing. Human error cost him and his daughter's lives.

[The Closer]

Wilt was all time offensively with nearly every single tool in the toolbox except shooting 3s. Russell had 0 offensive capabilities.

I don't get how you can compare the two.

I don't know either, Wilt was a loser statpadder, Russell was a winner

And on offense Russell was a much better playmaker

[The Closer]

I agree with you. If you swap Wilt and Russell on the Celtics it would be Wilt wearing all the hardware not Russell. IMO, Abdul-Jabbar was the best center ever. He has the best combination of stats, accolades, and rings.

No it wouldn't Celtics fell off a cliff without Russells leadership.

Wilt isn't winning because his brand of basketball is losing style, Stats over wins

He had a superteam with Baylor and West and still lost

[The Closer]

Bill Russell was mediocre at best offensively. In 1960 their were 8 teams in the NBA and by the time he retired there were only 14. Not enough competition. When you suck on one side of the ball you can't be the GOAT.

15.1 ppg
44% FG%
56% FT%

Best season scoring average was 18.9 ppg in 1961- '62 same season Wilt averaged 50 ppg and Baylor averaged 38 ppg. Russell sucked offensively.

:facepalm

[Airupthere]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/ee/76/8eee760dd6f5f31e3e38c0542fedb609.gif

sick gif

[RogueBorg]

:facepalm

Tell me how I'm wrong.

Did he not average 15 ppg for his career?
Did he not shoot 44% from the field?
Did he not shoot 56% from the FT line?
Did he not average 18 ppg in '61-'62 while Wilt and Elgin averaged 50 and 38 ppg?

[The Closer]

Tell me how I'm wrong.

Did he not average 15 ppg for his career?
Did he not shoot 44% from the field?
Did he not shoot 56% from the FT line?
Did he not average 18 ppg in '61-'62 while Wilt and Elgin averaged 50 and 38 ppg?

More to the game than stats

The season Wilt averaged 50 and Oscar averaged a triple double the players still voted Bill Russell was the MVP

[8Ball]

Bill Russell was mediocre at best offensively. In 1960 their were 8 teams in the NBA and by the time he retired there were only 14. Not enough competition. When you suck on one side of the ball you can't be the GOAT.

15.1 ppg
44% FG%
56% FT%

Best season scoring average was 18.9 ppg in 1961- '62 same season Wilt averaged 50 ppg and Baylor averaged 38 ppg. Russell sucked offensively.

:applause:

I can't put someone in the GOAT category if they wouldn't even be able to play in today's game.

Can't shoot free throws. Worst than Giannis at it.
Can't score the basketball?
What is Bill, a shorter Deandre Ayton?

[8Ball]

More to the game than stats

The season Wilt averaged 50 and Oscar averaged a triple double the players still voted Bill Russell was the MVP

Because Bill Russell had a team stacked full of hall of famers and was the best player on that team.

He ain't winning no MVPs if he was sent packing to the worst team in the league at that time.
Meanwhile we KNOW Wilt would be the MVP regardless of any team he was on in the 60s.

[The Closer]

Because Bill Russell had a team stacked full of hall of famers and was the best player on that team.

He ain't winning no MVPs if he was sent packing to the worst team in the league at that time.
Meanwhile we KNOW Wilt would be the MVP regardless of any team he was on in the 60s.

If Russells teams were so stacked explain how they were garbage before he joined and after he left :confusedshrug:

The players voted for Russell as the MVP over Wilt, the consensus amongst players in that era was that Russell was clearly better than Wilt

Only recently we have seen a bunch of clowns who value stats over winning where people rate Wilt higher

[coastalmarker99]

I have watched countless videos of Russell and he turned over the ball a lot when he was trying to be a playmaker.





I was never high on Bob Cousy as a player until I watched all his film. Now I think he's one of the most underappreciated players ever.

Cousy’s entire game was basically predicated on pressuring the defence in transition. His great handles allowed him to penetrate at will, and he used that gravity as leverage to get more efficient shots for his teammates


An example of this approach by Bob being very successful for the Celtics is that Cousy's 1954 Celtics were the greatest offensive team ever by relORtg until the 1967 76ers. Better than any Oscar or West led team until that year.

If you don't look at Cousy highlight reel and actually watch the footage of him most of his passes were just the right pass and not that risky.

He only made the high difficulty passes when it was the best pass to make in the situation. He says that in his book.

As Auerbach hated turnovers and made him really focus on making the right pass but he could make insane passes if he needed to in any situation.

[coastalmarker99]

Because Bill Russell had a team stacked full of hall of famers and was the best player on that team.

He ain't winning no MVPs if he was sent packing to the worst team in the league at that time.
Meanwhile we KNOW Wilt would be the MVP regardless of any team he was on in the 60s.

Bob Cousy led the league and playoffs in AST% 8 times and has some ridiculously high AST% numbers in the Finals plus he also won an MVP in his career.

Sam Jones was a clutch god that saved the Celtics season six times during their dynasty according to Russell.

Sharman was a great outside shooter for his era plus he was also incredibly smart too which worked wonders for him when he coached Wilt and the Lakers.

Heinsohn was a strong defender that also had an incredibly high basketball IQ both as a player and a coach.

KC was a lockdown defender at the guard spot that would have won the DPOY award in 1966 had the award been around at the time.


Red who is in my eyes the goat gm built some incredibly deep rosters for Russell to play with for most of his career as those 1960's Celtics teams were easily capable of going ten to 12 deep in the postseason most seasons outside of 69 and 68.

[RogueBorg]

If Russells teams were so stacked explain how they were garbage before he joined and after he left :confusedshrug:

The players voted for Russell as the MVP over Wilt, the consensus amongst players in that era was that Russell was clearly better than Wilt

Only recently we have seen a bunch of clowns who value stats over winning where people rate Wilt higher

The average team in the 1962 season had an average of 152 ball possessions. Over the past two decades in the NBA, teams have averaged about 90-100 possessions per game. Given that this difference gave players during that era 50 percent more opportunities to score, this would give Russell an adjusted scoring average of about 10 ppg in today’s game. That's Dikembe Mutomco level.

Regarding rebounding, when the higher ball possession rate argument is factored in, one can clearly see how rebounding totals were inflated compared to today. More scoring possessions led to more rebound opportunities. In addition, teams shot below a 40 percent rate in the late 1950s and not much more efficient after that, also leading to more rebounds. Over the past three decades, team rebounding averages have been in the low to mid 40s. By contrast, from 1956 until 1968, teams averaged between 58 and 66 rebounds per game. This alone would bring Russell’s rebound average today down by about a third, to around 15-16 rpg. Sorry, that's not GOAT tier.

[8Ball]

If Russells teams were so stacked explain how they were garbage before he joined and after he left :confusedshrug:

The players voted for Russell as the MVP over Wilt, the consensus amongst players in that era was that Russell was clearly better than Wilt

Only recently we have seen a bunch of clowns who value stats over winning where people rate Wilt higher

He was voted MVP because he was a more likeable character and won more games due to having a stacked team.

Wilt also didn't think too highly of his NBA colleagues which made them resent him. I don't blame Wilt for thinking he was above everyone since he dropped 50 points per game on their heads one season. The league was also highly racist back then and the notion of a loud successful Black Man having sex with white girls and putting up monster numbers rubs them the wrong way.


Bill Russell talent wise is probably the biggest NBA fraud in this sport:

He can't shoot free throws.
He has absolutely zero offensive talent.


That kind of a player doesn't get drafted in today's NBA. Probably not drafted after the year 2010 at all.

[8Ball]

The average team in the 1962 season had an average of 152 ball possessions. Over the past two decades in the NBA, teams have averaged about 90-100 possessions per game. Given that this difference gave players during that era 50 percent more opportunities to score, this would give Russell an adjusted scoring average of about 10 ppg in today’s game. That's Dikembe Mutomco level.

Regarding rebounding, when the higher ball possession rate argument is factored in, one can clearly see how rebounding totals were inflated compared to today. More scoring possessions led to more rebound opportunities. In addition, teams shot below a 40 percent rate in the late 1950s and not much more efficient after that, also leading to more rebounds. Over the past three decades, team rebounding averages have been in the low to mid 40s. By contrast, from 1956 until 1968, teams averaged between 58 and 66 rebounds per game. This alone would bring Russell’s rebound average today down by about a third, to around 15-16 rpg. Sorry, that's not GOAT tier.

Well said.


I read Bill Simmons book and was hoodwinked into thinking Russell was top 5.


But the more I study him the more I can't stomach putting him in the top 10. Being a better basketball player than the other top 10 players has to matter in GOAT conversation.


Jordan and Bron are better at player basketball than the rest of the top 10. Bill Russell can't claim that fact.

[8Ball]

Bob Cousy led the league and playoffs in AST% 8 times and has some ridiculously high AST% numbers in the Finals plus he also won an MVP in his career.

Sam Jones was a clutch god that saved the Celtics season six times during their dynasty according to Russell.

Sharman was a great outside shooter for his era plus he was also incredibly smart too which worked wonders for him when he coached Wilt and the Lakers.

Heinsohn was a strong defender that also had an incredibly high basketball IQ both as a player and a coach.

KC was a lockdown defender at the guard spot that would have won the DPOY award in 1966 had the award been around at the time.


Red who is in my eyes the goat gm built some incredibly deep rosters for Russell to play with for most of his career as those 1960's Celtics teams were easily capable of going ten to 12 deep in the postseason most seasons outside of 69 and 68.

That 60s celtics team was stacked against their competition.


If you could draft a 19 year old Wilt today or a 19 year old Russell, you are never ever taking Bill Russell over Wilt.

Wilt is 7'1", highly athletic with super long arms. Can play defense and has elite paint offensive talent. Bad at free throws but whatever.
Basically Giannis level player or better.


Bill Russell is 6'10", modern training is a 12ppg, 12 rebound undersized center that can't shoot free throws. Big deal.

[coastalmarker99]

He was voted MVP because he was a more likeable character and won more games due to having a stacked team.

Wilt also didn't think too highly of his NBA colleagues which made them resent him. I don't blame Wilt for thinking he was above everyone since he dropped 50 points per game on their heads one season. The league was also highly racist back then and the notion of a loud successful Black Man having sex with white girls and putting up monster numbers rubs them the wrong way.


Bill Russell talent wise is probably the biggest NBA fraud in this sport:

He can't shoot free throws.
He has absolutely zero offensive talent.


That kind of a player doesn't get drafted in today's NBA. Probably not drafted after the year 2010 at all.


If the Media have voted for the Mvp award instead of the players when Wilt played then he would have 5 or 6 MVP's as Wilt was voted First Team All-NBA and ahead of Russell, in '61, '62 which was two of Russell's MVP years.



In three of Russell's Mvp's years he was voted the NBA Most Valuable Player, but only named to the All-NBA Second Team. This would occur repeatedly throughout his career

[8Ball]

I agree with that whole heartedly.

Wilt was a superior basketball player.

[coastalmarker99]

I agree with that whole heartedly.

Wilt was a superior basketball player.

Hell, even Russell's playmaking skills as a player get overrated as here are Russell's offensive stats in all of the games we have footage of him.


Lakers @ Celtics 1962 finals game 7 -part game

4FGA
3FTA
1AST
3TOV


Celtics @ Lakers finals game 6-full game

11FGA
5FTA
7 assists
4TOV


Celtics @ Warriors 1964 finals game 4- second half only.

3FGA
1FTA
1AST


Lakers @ Celtics 1965 finals game 1 -a quarter of the game

2FGA
2FTA
3AST


Celtics @ Royals 1966 EDSF game 4 second half.

2FGA
2FTA
1AST
2TOV


Lakers @ Celtics 1966 finals game 7 part game.

4FGA
1AST
3TOV


76ers @ Celtics 1967 ECF game 4 - second half only

5FGA

5FTA

2AST

1TOV


Celtics @ Knicks 1969 ECF game 1-full game

9FGA

3FTA

7AST

4TOV


Celtics @ Lakers 1969 Finals game 7- fourth quarter only

3FGA

1AST

1TOV



Total AST/TOV Ratio: 24 AST/18 TOV=1.33

100* 18/(43+0.44 * 21+18) =25.6 TOV%

[tanibanana]

The biggest hole in Kareem's career is competition. During the ABA existence, NBA competition is weak, perhaps its weakest in its history since George Mikan.. Because "literally" almost half of the talent is playing elsewhere. That is like saying, Jordan won his MVPs and Championship during the time Magic, Barkley and then some were playing elsewhere, or Duncan winning MVPs and Rings when Shaq and Iverson was playing elsewhere.

In the first NBA All Star Game after the merger, 10 of the 24 NBA All Stars were former ABA players. In the first post-merger season's NBA Finals between the Portland Trail Blazers and the 76ers, five of the ten starting players were former ABA players.

About half of the top-20 players of the next 5-seasons after the merger were former ABA players.

Imagine Dr.J and Kareem battling it out for the MVP awards in the 70's (73-78), a rivalry that did not happen...

[Axe]

I miss Kobe
12thbe :(

[HBK_Kliq_2]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_career_p.html

Career playoff win share per 48:

Kawhi is already close to 23% win share per 48 playoffs.

While LeBron is going to continue declining and his will drop below kawhi when both their careers are done.

[coastalmarker99]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_career_p.html

Career playoff win share per 48:

Kawhi is already close to 23% win share per 48 playoffs.

While LeBron is going to continue declining and his will drop below kawhi when both their careers are done.

Kawhi is done his prime is over as he won't be back next season due to his ACL injury.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi is done his prime is over as he won't be back next season due to his ACL injury.

Durant just came perfectly fine from a much worse injury. The science today is advanced, players return from injuries like that all the time.

Anyways, kawhi can retire right now and still is the greatest player ever. He took down the two best duos of the 2010s (LeBron/wade and curry/draymond) and he also has the goat playoff run in 2019.

[2much_knowledge]

Mj - lebron
Mj - kareem
Mj - Magic


Just take a pick

[The Closer]

If Russells teams were so stacked explain how they were garbage before he joined and after he left :confusedshrug:


Can anyone answer this I really want to know why if Russells teams were so stacked why did they struggle when he didn't play

Back in the '62 season, Russell took himself out for 4 games and the Celtics lost 4 straight games even with Red Auerbach, Cousy, Sharman, the Joneses, Ramsey and other HoF's.

Back in '69, Russell took himself out for 5 games because of an injury and the Celtics lost 5 straight even with HoF's Sam Jones, Havlicek, Satch Sanders, and Bailey Howell.

[coastalmarker99]

Can anyone answer this I really want to know why if Russells teams were so stacked why did they struggle when he didn't play

Back in the '62 season, Russell took himself out for 4 games and the Celtics lost 4 straight games even with Red Auerbach, Cousy, Sharman, the Joneses, Ramsey and other HoF's.

Back in '69, Russell took himself out for 5 games because of an injury and the Celtics lost 5 straight even with HoF's Sam Jones, Havlicek, Satch Sanders, and Bailey Howell.


It's because they had no backup center to replace him it's the same with Wilt.


As why would you need a back up center if both Wilt and Russell are playing over 45 minutes a night and rarely miss time

[72-10]

Can anyone answer this I really want to know why if Russells teams were so stacked why did they struggle when he didn't play

Back in the '62 season, Russell took himself out for 4 games and the Celtics lost 4 straight games even with Red Auerbach, Cousy, Sharman, the Joneses, Ramsey and other HoF's.

Back in '69, Russell took himself out for 5 games because of an injury and the Celtics lost 5 straight even with HoF's Sam Jones, Havlicek, Satch Sanders, and Bailey Howell.

Shit's insanely stupid and moronic.

[The Closer]

Shit's insanely stupid and moronic.

Why every team in that era had 3+ HOF players yet only Russells team won every year

Wilt had the likes of Hal Greer,West,Baylor,Chet Walker by his side yet only has 2 championships to show for it?

[The Closer]

It's because they had no backup center to replace him it's the same with Wilt.


As why would you need a back up center if both Wilt and Russell are playing over 45 minutes a night and rarely miss time

That doesn't explain why the Celtics were mediocre before Russell joined and after he retired

[The Closer]

I agree with that whole heartedly.

Wilt was a superior basketball player.
11>2

[coastalmarker99]

11>2

Your argument of only using Rings is dumb.

[coastalmarker99]

Why every team in that era had 3+ HOF players yet only Russells team won every year

Wilt had the likes of Hal Greer,West,Baylor,Chet Walker by his side yet only has 2 championships to show for it?


Wilt after being traded to the 76ers midway through the 1964- 1965 season took a 76ers roster that was bottom-feeder the year before and didn't make the playoffs to a game seven, one point loss (on Boston's home floor) against a 62-18 Celtic team featuring 7 HOF's that was at its peak in their dynasty run.


The 1966 Sixers were not better than the Celtics. They won 1 game more, but the Celtics had played some games without Russell and other key figures of that team so, their 54-26 record isn't telling the whole truth.


They were coached by someone who, when he left the Sixers in that season, was never trusted again by any NBA team for the nest 5 seasons (you'd expect from someone who won 55 games to have had a lot more demand in the market) and when he was, it was from the worst team in the league, for only a single season. Also, Billy C was a rookie, played like absolute shit in the playoffs and even missed a game. Not to mention the obvious vast difference in playoff experience.

1967: Healthy team an elite coach, destroyed the league.

1968: An injury-plagued team in the playoffs. When they faced the Celtics, 4 out of their 5 most impactful players were hurt (Cunningham didn't even play). Knowing that this series still went to 7 games and that 3 of their 4 losses were close, it's pretty easy to assume that a healthy Sixers team (or, at least, a Sixer team equally healthy to the Celtics) could still have won the series.

[coastalmarker99]

Why every team in that era had 3+ HOF players yet only Russells team won every year

Wilt had the likes of Hal Greer,West,Baylor,Chet Walker by his side yet only has 2 championships to show for it?

Wilt usually obliterated Russell every time they matched up in the playoffs aside from the 1969 finals but of course, Russell having the better teammates and coach was usually able to barely get by the one-man team that was Wilt Chamberlain.

Russ fans claim that Celtics 7-1 PO record shows Russ dominated and is better than Wilt as a player.

Wilt fans say he dominated Russ individually but that Russ’s teammates outplayed Wilt’s. This thread looks at the actual record, series by series and game by game.

I examined all 49 PO games. I tracked data in four categories: TS%, Pts, Reb, Ast.

The overall data showed this:

PTS: Wilt: 43-6 (Wilt had more points than BR in 43 games vs. 6 games for Russ.)

REB: Wilt: 32-18 (1 tie)

AST: BR: 27-15 (7 ties)

TS%: Wilt: 32-17

I figured out Russ/Wilt’s teammates’ data by subtracting Russ/Wilt’s stats from team stats.

PTS: BR's teammates: 40-9 (BR teammates had more points than Wilt's in 40 of those games, vs. 9 for Wilt's mates.)

REB: BR teammates, 33-15 (1 tie)

AST: BR teammates: 28-16-5

TS%: BR teammates, 26-23

[The Closer]

Your argument of only using Rings is dumb.

Um you play basketball to win not put up empty stats

[RogueBorg]

Um you play basketball to win not put up empty stats

10 ppg adjusted for pace are some REALLY EMPTY stats from your boi.

[8Ball]

Um you play basketball to win not put up empty stats


Winning = 16ppg on 43%FG in the playoffs. 60% from FT line.


That's called trash offensively and unplayable in today's league. I repeat, Bill Russell is unplayable in today's league.

[The Closer]

10 ppg adjusted for pace are some REALLY EMPTY stats from your boi.

More rings than MJ and Lebron combined say otherwise

Russell sacrificed his stats for winning, GOAT gon GOAT :bowdown:

[The Closer]

Winning = 16ppg on 43%FG in the playoffs. 60% from FT line.


That's called trash offensively and unplayable in today's league. I repeat, Bill Russell is unplayable in today's league.
https://i.postimg.cc/rwkcB2FW/tenor-2.gif

[RogueBorg]

More rings than MJ and Lebron combined say otherwise

Russell sacrificed his stats for winning, GOAT gon GOAT :bowdown:

When there's only 8 teams in the league and most of your teammates are Hall of Famers I would hope so. Here's a clue for you, Russell sucked offensively.

[RogueBorg]

Winning = 16ppg on 43%FG in the playoffs. 60% from FT line.


That's called trash offensively and unplayable in today's league. I repeat, Bill Russell is unplayable in today's league.

Russell got carried by his teammates.

[RogueBorg]

https://i.postimg.cc/rwkcB2FW/tenor-2.gif

Wilt Chamberlain has the record for most rebounds in a game at 55. Care to guess who he set that against?
Mister 44%

[8Ball]

The Closer threw in the towel. He has no more arguments.

[j3lademaster]

Winning = 16ppg on 43%FG in the playoffs. 60% from FT line.


That's called trash offensively and unplayable in today's league. I repeat, Bill Russell is unplayable in today's league.Have to disagree. He'd catch lobs and anchor a defense.

[The Closer]

When there's only 8 teams in the league and most of your teammates are Hall of Famers I would hope so. Here's a clue for you, Russell sucked offensively.
Not according to his teammates, Russell was the best passing big man ever behind Jokic

Bill Russell was a great passer, both in the half-court & full-court, and put up insane assist numbers for a center, especially in the playoffs (averaged >5 apg in the playoffs during 7 different seasons, far more times than any other center).

John Havlicek, in his 1977 autobiography, said the following about Russell's effect on Boston's offense when specifically discussing their first post-Russell season ('70):


"You couldn't begin to count the ways we missed [him]. People think about him in terms of defense and rebounding, but he had been the key to our offense. He made the best pass more than anyone I have ever played with. That mattered to people like Nelson, Howell, Siegfried, Sanders, and myself. None of us were one on one players ... Russell made us better offensive players. His ability as a passer, pick-setter, and general surmiser of offense has always been over-looked.”

[The Closer]

Wilt Chamberlain has the record for most rebounds in a game at 55. Care to guess who he set that against?
Mister 44%

We don't care about stats out here, who won when mattered?

https://i.postimg.cc/rwkcB2FW/tenor-2.gif

[coastalmarker99]

The Closer threw in the towel. He has no more arguments.

Agreed does anyone think that both MJ and Lebron wouldn't win 11 rings themselves if they had the luxury to average 16ppg on 43%FG in the playoffs plus 60% from the FT line and still somehow win titles.

[The Closer]

Agreed does anyone think that both MJ and Lebron wouldn't win 11 rings themselves if they had the luxury to average 16ppg on 43%FG in the playoffs plus 60% from the FT line and still somehow win titles.
MJ and Lebron aren't even in the same galaxy as Bill Russell in defense and leadership so no

[coastalmarker99]

MJ and Lebron aren't even in the same galaxy as Bill Russell in defense and leadership so no

Oh really 6 rings and 6 finals MVP's in 8 years to go along with 4 regular season MVPS all the while being the best offensive player and defensive player on those Bulls teams means that MJ isn't even close to Russell in defence and leadership.

[coastalmarker99]

MJ and Lebron aren't even in the same galaxy as Bill Russell in defense and leadership so no

MJ made 9 all defensive first teams he would have made even more for his career had he not retired in 1993 or 1998.


MJ had far more dominant playoff runs than Russell ever had both on a individual level and team level.

[The Closer]

Oh really 6 rings and 6 finals MVP's in 8 years to go along with 4 regular season MVPS all the while being the best offensive player and defensive player on those Bulls teams means that MJ isn't even close to Russell in defence and leadership.

Did I say that MJ was a bad defender?

Bill Russell is the most impactful defender the league has ever seen by a landslide, he could turn a mediocre defense into a all time great defense by himself

Neither Lebron or MJ could do that

[coastalmarker99]

All that needs to be said about MJ's leadership is that the Bulls were one win away from having back to back 70 win seasons from 1996 to 1997.


MJ throughout his six title runs was only taken to a game seven by New York in 1992 and the Pacers in 1998 now compare that to Russell who was frequently getting taken to seven games by far inferior teams during his title runs.

[coastalmarker99]

Also MJ won more playoff series in his six rings than Russell did for his 11 rings all the while carrying a bigger load so there is no contest as to who is the greater player between the two of them.



Russell is not even the Goat Center in most people's minds as that is Kareem or Wilt.

[coastalmarker99]

Did I say that MJ was a bad defender?

Bill Russell is the most impactful defender the league has ever seen by a landslide, he could turn a mediocre defense into a all time great defense by himself

Neither Lebron or MJ could do that


Could Russell truely carry a bad team on both sides of the court as both MJ and Lebron did throughout their careers no i don't think so as he is a terrible offensive player.

[The Closer]

Also MJ won more playoff series in his six rings than Russell did for his 11 rings all the while carrying a bigger load so there is no contest as to who is the greater player between the two of them.



Russell is not even the Goat Center in most people's minds as that is Kareem or Wilt.
In terms of talent you could argue that Wilt is better... I guess

But Wilt couldn't put his talent together and turn it into team success because he seemed to care more about averaging 50 points a game than winning a championship that's why I would take Russell over Wilt 10/10

[And1AllDay]

Could Russell truely carry a bad team on both sides of the court as both MJ and Lebron did throughout their careers no i don't think so as he is a terrible offensive player.

hell no

only bran, kobe, and wilt could

[The Closer]

Could Russell truely carry a bad team on both sides of the court as both MJ and Lebron did throughout their careers no i don't think so as he is a terrible offensive player.
He's not a "terrible" offensive player stop it

Russells defense and leadership alone could turn a lottery team into a contender.

[coastalmarker99]

hell no

only bran, kobe, and wilt could

Kareem could do it as well.

[coastalmarker99]

He's not a "terrible" offensive player stop it

Russells defense and leadership alone could turn a lottery team into a contender.


When up against the only guy in Wilt that could match up with him in terms of athleticism.

Here are Russell's stats

1959-1960 regular season in 11 H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 19.8 ppg, 23.7 rpg 3.5 APG 39.3 FG%


1960 ECF in six postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 20.7 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 44.6 FG%, and 2.8 APG.


1960-1961 in 13 H2H matchups vs Wilt

Russell: 18.8 ppg, 25.4 rpg, 39.8 FG%, and 3.6 APG


1961-62 in 10 regular season H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 18.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, 38.3 FG%, and 4.4 APG.


1962 ECF in seven postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 22.0 ppg, 25.9 rpg, .39.9. FG%, and 4.6 APG.


1962 -1963 in 9 regular season H2H's: vs Wilt

Russell: 15.3 ppg, 27.8 rpg, .38.14 FG%


1963-1964 in 8 regular season H2H vs Wilt

Russell 14.3 ppg, 25.3 rpg, 5 APG 39.81 FG%


1964 finals in five postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell 11.2 ppg, 25.2 rpg, 5.0 APG 38.6 FG%


1964 - 1965 in 11 regular season H2H vs Wilt

Russell 12.6 ppg, 22.2 rpg 4.6 APG, 28.1 FG%


1965 ECF in seven postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell 15.6 ppg, 25.1 rpg, 6.7 APG,44.7 FG%.


1965 -1966 in 9 regular season H2H vs Wilt

Russell: 9.4 ppg, 21.2 rpg, 4.9 APG, .30.1 FG%


1966 ECF in five postseson H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 14.0 ppg, 26.2 rpg, 5.6 APG, 42.4 FG%


1966 -1967 in 9 regular season H2H vs Wilt

Russell: 12.2 ppg, 21.1 rpg, 4.1 APG .44.7 FG%


1967 ECF in five postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 11.4 ppg, 23.4 rpg, 6.0 APG, 35.8 FG%


1967-1968 in 8 regular season H2H vs Wilt

Russell: 7.8 ppg, 17.5 rpg, 5.1 APG 29.1 FG%


1968 ECF in seven postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 13.7 ppg, 23.9 rpg, 4.1 APG, 44.0 FG%.


1968-69: in six regular-season H2H vs Wilt

Russell: 6.7 ppg, 15.8 rpg, 5.8 APG on 34.0 %FG


1969 finals in seven postseason H2H's vs Wilt

Russell: 9.1 ppg, 21.1 rpg, 5.1 APG on 39.7 %FG


The funny thing is that Russell had a ton of help in defending Chamberlain who shot over 50 to 55 percent against him while scoring 35 to 40 PPG.

Meanwhile, at the other end, Wilt not only played Russell, one-on-one, he was also defending the entire Celtic team at times.

And yet Russell somehow couldn't even manage to shoot over 30 percent against him despite being the fourth or fifth option for the Celtics on offence.

[coastalmarker99]

I don't understand how with such an athletic advantage that Russell had over everybody in the 1960's outside of Wilt that he couldn't manage even as the fourth or fifth option offensively for his teams to shoot over 50 per cent from the floor.


Hell Wilt even managed to do it when he was averaging 50 points a game and then when he went into Russell's role late into his career.


He basically doubled Russell's shooting percentage as he averaged over 65 and 70 percent from the floor in the last seasons of his career.

[coastalmarker99]

In terms of talent you could argue that Wilt is better... I guess

But Wilt couldn't put his talent together and turn it into team success because he seemed to care more about averaging 50 points a game than winning a championship that's why I would take Russell over Wilt 10/10

"Nobody seems to appreciate what an incredible player Wilt was," Russell said at the 1997 All-Star Game when the league named and honoured its 50 greatest players. "He was the best player of all time because he dominated the floor like nobody else ever could. To be that big and that athletic was special."


Wilt is playing better than I used to –passing off, coming out to set up screens, picking up guys outside, and sacrificing himself for team play.’’ –Bill Russell, great moments in pro basketball, (by Sam Goldaper)p.24

If the referee is calling the game loose, then everyone gets away with more, so you have to handle your own man accordingly unless it’s Wilt Chamberlain.


Wilt, you just don’t handle. He’s too strong. The best you can do is make him work hard.’’ Bill Russell, go up for Glory P.100

I'm probably the only person on the planet who knows how good you really are'' Bill Russell to Wilt chamberlain.

Bill Russell ''Wilt thought rightfully so that he was the greatest basketball player who's ever lived''.

[The Closer]

"Nobody seems to appreciate what an incredible player Wilt was," Russell said at the 1997 All-Star Game when the league named and honoured its 50 greatest players. "He was the best player of all time because he dominated the floor like nobody else ever could. To be that big and that athletic was special."


Wilt is playing better than I used to –passing off, coming out to set up screens, picking up guys outside, and sacrificing himself for team play.’’ –Bill Russell, great moments in pro basketball, (by Sam Goldaper)p.24

If the referee is calling the game loose, then everyone gets away with more, so you have to handle your own man accordingly unless it’s Wilt Chamberlain.


Wilt, you just don’t handle. He’s too strong. The best you can do is make him work hard.’’ Bill Russell, go up for Glory P.100

I'm probably the only person on the planet who knows how good you really are'' Bill Russell to Wilt chamberlain.

Bill Russell ''Wilt thought rightfully so that he was the greatest basketball player who's ever lived''.
Russell being humble, another reason why he's the GOAT :applause:

[coastalmarker99]

95% of Wilt's scoring was pure finesse, he wasn't shoulder dipping or backing people down in the post which were also illegal in the 60s and he still managed to shoot over 68 percent in 1967 as the first option which was 23 per cent better than Russell's field goal percentage.

[coastalmarker99]

Russell being humble, another reason why he's the GOAT :applause:

Wilt was voted First Team All-NBA, and ahead of Russell, in '60, '61, '62, '64, '66, '67, and '68...while Russell only beat him out in '63 and '65 (and neither were voted either first or second team in '69.)

In their ten years in the league together, Wilt was almost always considered the better player, and it started in his rookie season.

[coastalmarker99]

He's not a "terrible" offensive player stop it

Russells defense and leadership alone could turn a lottery team into a contender.

In their 49 post-season games Wilt shot 502 from 982 attempts, Russell shot 296 from 710 attempts. Wilt missed 480 shots, while Russell missed 414, which means that Russell missed 86 % of the shots Wilt missed.




But again...what is interesting, though, is that Russell missed nearly as many shots as Wilt did in their 49 career playoff H2H's think about that. Chamberlain took considerably more shots, and made far more...and yet, they both missed about the same number.


So yeah that stat along with many others shows that Russell was a terrible offensive player throughout his career.

[The Closer]

Wilt was voted First Team All-NBA, and ahead of Russell, in '60, '61, '62, '64, '66, '67, and '68...while Russell only beat him out in '63 and '65 (and neither were voted either first or second team in '69.)

In their ten years in the league together, Wilt was almost always considered the better player, and it started in his rookie season.

Like I said earlier Russell won MVP the very year Wilt averaged 50 and Oscar averaged a triple double so you're wrong again

[coastalmarker99]

Like I said earlier Russell won MVP the very year Wilt averaged 50 and Oscar averaged a triple double so you're wrong again

He only won the MVP award that season in 1962 because most of the players in the NBA hated Wilt.


1961-62:

Russell vs Wilt 10 regular season H2H's:

Russell: 18.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, .38.3 FG%, and 4.4 apg.

Wilt: 39.7 ppg, 28.8 rpg, .46.8 FG%, and 2.1 apg.

Wilt outscored Russell in all 10 H2H's.

Wilt outrebounded Russell in 7 of the 10 H2H's.

Wilt outshot Russell from the field in 8 of the 10 H2H's.

Wilt with 5 games of 40+ points

Wilt with 2 games of 50+

High game of 62 points (on 27-45 FG/FGA, with 28 rebounds.)

Chamberlain had scoring margins of 41-28, 31-17, 26-11, 48-21, 38-11, 41-11, 52-21, and 62-23.

Wilt had rebounding margins of 30-19, and 31-18.

And for those that believe that Russell was "letting" Wilt score...how about these two B2B games:

2/9/62:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...202090BOS.html

2/10/62:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...202100PHW.html

Chamberlain rallies Philly back from a 20 point 4th quarter deficit in one game, with a 48-29 game, and then a come-from-behind 4th quarter game in which he outscored Russell, 38-11 and outrebounded him, 31-18.

And speaking of B2B games:

Wilt vs Bellamy on 11/13/61: 73 points, 29-48 FG/FGA, 36 rebounds

Wilt vs Russell on 11/14/61: 62 points, 27-45 FG/FGA, 28 rebounds

Another interesting game: 3/7/62:

Boston routs Philly, 153-102. Wilt, as always, played every minute, while Russell played 40 minutes. (It was 113-78 going into the 4th quarter.)

Russell vs Wilt in the EDF's (Boston wins game seven, 109-107.)

Russell: 22.0 ppg, 25.9 rpg, .39.9 eFG%, and 4.6 apg.

Wilt: 33.6 ppg, 26.9 rpg, .46.8 FG%, and 2.9 apg.

Wilt outscored Russell in all 7 games. They went 3-3-1 in rebounds.

Russell with two consecutive games of 31-31 and 30-31 (and Wilt outscored him in both.)

Wilt with 6 games of 30+ points.

Wilt had two games of 40+ (41 and 42 points.)

In-game two, Chamberlain outscored Russell, 42-9; outrebounded Russell, 37-20; and outshot Russell, 16-31 to 4-14.

And for the third straight season,

Chamberlain shot way over the league eFG% against Russell (.46.8 to the league FG% of .42.6),



while holding Russell WAY below it (.38.3.) And in their second straight playoff series...more of the same. Wilt shot .46.8 in their 7 game playoff series, in a post-season NBA that shot .41.1 while holding Russell to a .39.9 FG%.

[RogueBorg]

He only won the MVP award that season in 1962 because most of the players in the NBA hated Wilt.


1961-62:

Russell vs Wilt 10 regular season H2H's:

Russell: 18.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, .38.3 FG%, and 4.4 apg.

Wilt: 39.7 ppg, 28.8 rpg, .46.8 FG%, and 2.1 apg.

Wilt outscored Russell in all 10 H2H's.

Wilt outrebounded Russell in 7 of the 10 H2H's.

Wilt outshot Russell from the field in 8 of the 10 H2H's.

Wilt with 5 games of 40+ points

Wilt with 2 games of 50+

High game of 62 points (on 27-45 FG/FGA, with 28 rebounds.)

Chamberlain had scoring margins of 41-28, 31-17, 26-11, 48-21, 38-11, 41-11, 52-21, and 62-23.

Wilt had rebounding margins of 30-19, and 31-18.

And for those that believe that Russell was "letting" Wilt score...how about these two B2B games:

2/9/62:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...202090BOS.html

2/10/62:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...202100PHW.html

Chamberlain rallies Philly back from a 20 point 4th quarter deficit in one game, with a 48-29 game, and then a come-from-behind 4th quarter game in which he outscored Russell, 38-11 and outrebounded him, 31-18.

And speaking of B2B games:

Wilt vs Bellamy on 11/13/61: 73 points, 29-48 FG/FGA, 36 rebounds

Wilt vs Russell on 11/14/61: 62 points, 27-45 FG/FGA, 28 rebounds

Another interesting game: 3/7/62:

Boston routs Philly, 153-102. Wilt, as always, played every minute, while Russell played 40 minutes. (It was 113-78 going into the 4th quarter.)

Russell vs Wilt in the EDF's (Boston wins game seven, 109-107.)

Russell: 22.0 ppg, 25.9 rpg, .39.9 eFG%, and 4.6 apg.

Wilt: 33.6 ppg, 26.9 rpg, .46.8 FG%, and 2.9 apg.

Wilt outscored Russell in all 7 games. They went 3-3-1 in rebounds.

Russell with two consecutive games of 31-31 and 30-31 (and Wilt outscored him in both.)

Wilt with 6 games of 30+ points.

Wilt had two games of 40+ (41 and 42 points.)

In-game two, Chamberlain outscored Russell, 42-9; outrebounded Russell, 37-20; and outshot Russell, 16-31 to 4-14.

And for the third straight season,

Chamberlain shot way over the league eFG% against Russell (.46.8 to the league FG% of .42.6),



while holding Russell WAY below it (.38.3.) And in their second straight playoff series...more of the same. Wilt shot .46.8 in their 7 game playoff series, in a post-season NBA that shot .41.1 while holding Russell to a .39.9 FG%.

If this was a title fight the ref would have stepped in and stopped it on a TKO.

[RogueBorg]

Did I say that MJ was a bad defender?

Bill Russell is the most impactful defender the league has ever seen by a landslide, he could turn a mediocre defense into a all time great defense by himself

Neither Lebron or MJ could do that

We're not saying Russell isn't a great defender, because he was, there's no denying that. But Russell was mediocre at best on the offensive end. You can't be the GOAT being mediocre on one side of the ball. Kareem, MJ, and Lebron were all great both defensively and offensively.

Russell's not even the greatest center of all-time. You can say what you want about Wilt, but you can't say those things about Kareem.

[Spurs m8]

I just cringe when I see LeBrons name in here LMAO

Way to say "I have no idea about sport, basketball or integrity. I also have really low standards and am easily brainwashed...I can't think for myself"

[Thenameless]

If we took rings out of the goat debate and only focused on individual greatness as a player then Wilt would be the goat.


Because if all stats were all tracked during his career he would own 250 recordsHe would have the record for the most triple-doubles of all time.

He would have the record for the most quadruple doubles of all time.

He would have the record for most double triple-doubles of all time.

He would have the record for the most quintuple doubles of all time.

He would have the record for the most 60 and 70 point triple-doubles of all time.

He would have the record for the most blocks of all time

He would have the record for the most shots blocked in a game of all time both in the regular season and playoffs.

He would have the record for the most offensive rebounds of all time.

He would have the record for the most offensive rebounds grabbed in a single game both in the regular season and playoffs.

Yes, Wilt Chamberlain is the best basketball player that ever lived. By far.

[Mr. Woke]

LeBron is the GOAT.

[Chick Stern]

The biggest hole in Kareem's career is competition. During the ABA existence, NBA competition is weak, perhaps its weakest in its history since George Mikan.. Because "literally" almost half of the talent is playing elsewhere. That is like saying, Jordan won his MVPs and Championship during the time Magic, Barkley and then some were playing elsewhere, or Duncan winning MVPs and Rings when Shaq and Iverson was playing elsewhere.

In the first NBA All Star Game after the merger, 10 of the 24 NBA All Stars were former ABA players. In the first post-merger season's NBA Finals between the Portland Trail Blazers and the 76ers, five of the ten starting players were former ABA players.

About half of the top-20 players of the next 5-seasons after the merger were former ABA players.

Imagine Dr.J and Kareem battling it out for the MVP awards in the 70's (73-78), a rivalry that did not happen...
ROFL! Everyone knows Jordan’s titles came during the weakest NBA decade

[The Closer]

Yes, Wilt Chamberlain is the best basketball player that ever lived. By far.

:roll::roll::roll:

[The Closer]

He only won the MVP award that season in 1962 because most of the players in the NBA hated Wilt.


1961-62:

Russell vs Wilt 10 regular season H2H's:

Russell: 18.5 ppg, 24.6 rpg, .38.3 FG%, and 4.4 apg.

Wilt: 39.7 ppg, 28.8 rpg, .46.8 FG%, and 2.1 apg.

Wilt outscored Russell in all 10 H2H's.

Wilt outrebounded Russell in 7 of the 10 H2H's.

Wilt outshot Russell from the field in 8 of the 10 H2H's.

Wilt with 5 games of 40+ points

Wilt with 2 games of 50+

High game of 62 points (on 27-45 FG/FGA, with 28 rebounds.)

Chamberlain had scoring margins of 41-28, 31-17, 26-11, 48-21, 38-11, 41-11, 52-21, and 62-23.

Wilt had rebounding margins of 30-19, and 31-18.

And for those that believe that Russell was "letting" Wilt score...how about these two B2B games:

2/9/62:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...202090BOS.html

2/10/62:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...202100PHW.html

Chamberlain rallies Philly back from a 20 point 4th quarter deficit in one game, with a 48-29 game, and then a come-from-behind 4th quarter game in which he outscored Russell, 38-11 and outrebounded him, 31-18.

And speaking of B2B games:

Wilt vs Bellamy on 11/13/61: 73 points, 29-48 FG/FGA, 36 rebounds

Wilt vs Russell on 11/14/61: 62 points, 27-45 FG/FGA, 28 rebounds

Another interesting game: 3/7/62:

Boston routs Philly, 153-102. Wilt, as always, played every minute, while Russell played 40 minutes. (It was 113-78 going into the 4th quarter.)

Russell vs Wilt in the EDF's (Boston wins game seven, 109-107.)

Russell: 22.0 ppg, 25.9 rpg, .39.9 eFG%, and 4.6 apg.

Wilt: 33.6 ppg, 26.9 rpg, .46.8 FG%, and 2.9 apg.

Wilt outscored Russell in all 7 games. They went 3-3-1 in rebounds.

Russell with two consecutive games of 31-31 and 30-31 (and Wilt outscored him in both.)

Wilt with 6 games of 30+ points.

Wilt had two games of 40+ (41 and 42 points.)

In-game two, Chamberlain outscored Russell, 42-9; outrebounded Russell, 37-20; and outshot Russell, 16-31 to 4-14.

And for the third straight season,

Chamberlain shot way over the league eFG% against Russell (.46.8 to the league FG% of .42.6),



while holding Russell WAY below it (.38.3.) And in their second straight playoff series...more of the same. Wilt shot .46.8 in their 7 game playoff series, in a post-season NBA that shot .41.1 while holding Russell to a .39.9 FG%.

Tldr

Wilt is the GOAT statpadder

[coastalmarker99]

Tldr

Wilt is the GOAT statpadder


The Closer has clearly thrown in the towel as he has no more arguments left that make sense.

[Spurs m8]

Tldr

Wilt is the GOAT statpadder

I mean...we know who the real GOAT stat padder is.

The one that chose stats over finals wins