Did Scottie Pippen ever outscore Michael Jordan in the NBA Finals?

[warriorfan]

Anyone know?

[000]

Anyone know?
Well Pippen had several finals series with more ppg than 2011 LeGOAT, so Im sure it happened at least once

[3ba11]

Ultimately, only Pippen won a bunch of big series against top teams while completely wetting the bed, aka 16 on 39%

Infact, Pippen has 3 of the 7 worst true shooting performances for a winning playoff run in 3-pointer history - so his efficiency is the worst-ever for a winning sidekick, and his scoring is among the worst

So among winning sidekicks, Pippen is the worst-scoring sidekick in 3-pointer history by virtue being among the worst scorers coupled with the worst efficiency of all-time..

[Axe]

Ultimately, only Pippen won a bunch of big series against top teams while completely wetting the bed, aka 16 on 39%

Infact, Pippen has 3 of the 7 worst true shooting performances for a winning playoff run in 3-pointer history - so his efficiency is the worst-ever for a winning sidekick, and his scoring is among the worst

So among winning sidekicks, Pippen is the worst-scoring sidekick in 3-pointer history by virtue being among the worst scorers coupled with the worst efficiency of all-time..
Imagine being this delusional and rubbish.

[72-10]

I don't think so... in fact he was rarely even near Jordan's point total for a game, I checked '96, for instance, which is probably when it would have happened if it had happened, and it didn't happen. I don't particularly recall Pippen scoring all that many points, such as breaking 30.

[Axe]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

[3ba11]

Imagine being this delusional and rubbish.


I wasn't presenting my opinion in that post - I was informing you of the historical record.

[Bawkish]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

i don't see the point here, just Pippen doing what a SF role supposed to be doing while MJ doing what a SG is supposed to be doing

[72-10]

Game 3 of the '97 Finals was one of the best moments of Pippen's career. He lit up the scoreboard from three and managed to outscore Michael in the game, 27 to 26, I remember him hitting some of these threes, such as one from the right wing.

[Axe]

i don't see the point here, just Pippen doing what a SF role supposed to be doing while MJ doing what a SG is supposed to be doing
But 'role player' tho lmao

[3ba11]

But 'role player' tho lmao


Jeff Green scored 27 points in a game during these playoffs - he's still a bum role player, just like Pippen.

Pippen averaged at least 10 points less than Jordan in every series..

So everyone in history had teammates lead them for entire playoff runs, while Jordan led every series by at least 10 ppg.. He averaged 10-20 more than pippen in every Finals.

[Axe]

Jeff Green scored 27 points in a game during these playoffs - he's still a bum role player, just like Pippen.

Pippen averaged at least 10 points less than Jordan in every series..

So everyone in history had teammates lead them for entire playoff runs, while Jordan led every series by at least 10 ppg.. He averaged 10-20 more than pippen in every Finals.
1-9 ;)

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen outscored him in Game 5 in '91 to clinch their first title and Game 3 in '97, making a staggering 7 3's with that short ass 3 point line :lol

[72-10]

Pippen outscored him in Game 5 in '91 to clinch their first title and Game 3 in '97, making a staggering 7 3's with that short ass 3 point line :lol

which coupled with his lanky arms meant he could shoot over the defenders with ease on those guarded threes

Jeff Green could tear it up on offense, but he's lacking on the defensive end

[97 bulls]

Pippen outscored him in Game 5 in '91 to clinch their first title and Game 3 in '97, making a staggering 7 3's with that short ass 3 point line :lol

I think a fair argument can be made that Pippen played Jordan to a standstill in 91 NBA Finals

[3ba11]

1-9 ;)


I actually like Pippen but he never played as well as guys like Miller (who vastly outplayed Pippen 6 of 6 times when they faced the same playoff opponent)... or Kemp (who nearly won FMVP from MJ and was a dominant #1 option on a Finals team and dominated many other series more than Pippen could ever dream).... or Payton, ditto... KJ ditto.. Worthy ditto.

Meanwhile, Pippen is possibly the worst-scoring winning sidekick ever based on his weak scoring and worst-ever efficiency.

So it's pretty generous to say that he's on these guys' level, and I think he was slightly below all these guys - still a solid all-star player, but vastly overrated due to the 6 rings..

[3ba11]

Pippen outscored him in Game 5 in '91 to clinch their first title and Game 3 in '97, making a staggering 7 3's with that short ass 3 point line :lol


Imagine your best playoff game being only 33 points... and it was the 1 game where he had zero defensive responsibility (Worthy was out and MJ guarded Magic for all of Game 5)

the career high of role players is what pippen did in game 5.. actually less than draymond in game 7 of 16' (dray was all alone that game)

[97 bulls]

I actually like Pippen but he never played as well as guys like Miller (who vastly outplayed Pippen 6 of 6 times when they faced the same playoff opponent)... or Kemp (who nearly won FMVP from MJ and was a dominant #1 option on a Finals team and dominated many other series more than Pippen could ever dream).... or Payton, ditto... KJ ditto.. Worthy ditto.

Meanwhile, Pippen is possibly the worst-scoring winning sidekick ever based on his weak scoring and worst-ever efficiency.

So it's pretty generous to say that he's on these guys' level, and I think he was slightly below all these guys - still a solid all-star player, but vastly overrated due to the 6 rings..

But you focus too much on scoring and never take context into account. What about rebounds? Defense? Intangibles? Scoring isn’t the only way to impact a game.

[3ba11]

But you focus too much on scoring and never take context into account. What about rebounds? Defense? Intangibles? Scoring isn’t the only way to impact a game.


If a guy is averaging 15 on 35%, then they're a role player, or a defensive role player if they play good defense.

So Jordan won a bunch of chips with a cast of defensive role players (spotty scorers that play good defense)

btw, kemp was a better rebounder than pippen, while payton or KJ were better passers, scorers and leaders.. remember, pippen only averaged 5 apg and 7 rpg - that isn't impressive or a lot

[97 bulls]

If a guy is averaging 15 on 35%, then they're a role player, or a defensive role player if they play good defense.

So Jordan won a bunch of chips with a cast of defensive role players (spotty scorers that play good defense)

btw, kemp was a better rebounder than pippen, while payton was a better passer, scorer and leader.. remember, pippen only averaged 5 apg and 7 rpg - that isn't impressive or a lot

Unless he was playing hurt.

[Axe]

I actually like Pippen
Liar!:rant

[3ba11]

Unless he was playing hurt.


What if we replaced Pippen's 19.0 on 40% that he achieved against the 95' Magic..... with Miller's 26 on 52% that he achieved against those same Magic? (miller took 8 threes a game at 46%)

Jordan would've won that series and had a good chance against the 95' Rockets with a legit stud at #2 that he could rely on to dominate alongside him... Miller/MJ would be like Booker/MJ or Curry/MJ or Beal/MJ - 2 juggernauts that can take over

[000]

Pippen outscored him in Game 5 in '91 to clinch their first title and Game 3 in '97, making a staggering 7 3's with that short ass 3 point line :lol
2007 finals G1 - gibson outscores lebron
2011 finals G2 - wade outscores lebron
2011 finals G3 - wade & bosh outscore lebron
2011 finals G4 - wade & bosh outscore lebron
2011 finals G5 - wade & bosh outscore lebron
2013 finals G2 - chalmers outscores lebron
2013 finals G3 - wade outscores lebron
2015 finals G4 - mozgov outscores lebron
2016 finals G1 - irving outscores lebron
2016 finals G3 - irving outscores lebron
2017 finals G4 - irving outscores lebron
2020 finals G1 - davis outscores lebron

Honorary mention: every time lebron got tied by someone like mike miller or barely outscored his really bad teammates by like 2 pts

[SouBeachTalents]

2007 finals G1 - gibson outscores lebron
2011 finals G2 - wade outscores lebron
2011 finals G3 - wade & bosh outscore lebron
2011 finals G4 - wade & bosh outscore lebron
2011 finals G5 - wade & bosh outscore lebron
2013 finals G2 - chalmers outscores lebron
2013 finals G3 - wade outscores lebron
2015 finals G4 - mozgov outscores lebron
2016 finals G1 - irving outscores lebron
2016 finals G3 - irving outscores lebron
2017 finals G4 - irving outscores lebron
2020 finals G1 - davis outscores lebron

Honorary mention: every time lebron got tied by someone like mike miller or barely outscored his really bad teammates by like 2 pts
Now this is a truly insecure post. I answer the threads question and this fakkits droning on about LeBron. Took the time to look up all 10 of his Finals too :oldlol:

[000]

Now this is a truly insecure post. I answer the threads question and this fakkits droning on about LeBron. Took the time to look up all 10 of his Finals too :oldlol:
Nice deflection:applause:

But the thread is asking about a series

[8Ball]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

End thread.

[ELITEpower23]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

[97 bulls]

What if we replaced Pippen's 19.0 on 40% that he achieved against the 95' Magic..... with Miller's 26 on 52% that he achieved against those same Magic? (miller took 8 threes a game at 46%)

Jordan would've won that series and had a good chance against the 95' Rockets with a legit stud at #2 that he could rely on to dominate alongside him... Miller/MJ would be like Booker/MJ or Curry/MJ or Beal/MJ - 2 juggernauts that can take over

Does Miller get that many attempts playing with Jordan? What about Millers lack of defense? Or his rebounding? The Bulls don't have the personnel to get Miller the same shots he gets with the Pacers.

The fact that you only see scoring is proof you don't know and can't play basketball.

[FKAri]

Yes, every time. Silly question. Lock thread. Ban OP.

[Overdrive]

But you focus too much on scoring and never take context into account. What about rebounds? Defense? Intangibles? Scoring isn’t the only way to impact a game.

Like Jordan was scoring only. What made Pippen & Jordan such a great duo were that the both could fill the stat sheet while being defensive pests.



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

Deviation:
71,6%
26,3%
3,2%
11,9%
22%
58,3%

[MadDog]

Nope. And here's the kicker. Jordan was also a great playmaker and defender. So the "all-around play" from Pippen barely made up for his lackluster scoring, especially from 96-98. We've seen the numbers. He stunk up the joint.

[Airupthere]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

Marginal different in assists. As for defense, given how much load MJ has on the offense, he is not that far off too with steals and blocks. Rebounds, pip is a forward and a naturally taller, bigger guy. Still not that far. It's not like Jordan slacks off on everything. He just is able to do that much more than pip offensively.

[97 bulls]

Like Jordan was scoring only. What made Pippen & Jordan such a great duo were that the both could fill the stat sheet while being defensive pests.




Deviation:
71,6%
26,3%
3,2%
11,9%
22%
58,3%

Read the exchange. He said Miller scoring more would've netted the Bulls a win if he (Miller) was there instead of Pippen.

[ELITEpower23]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

Ouch. Thread ender

[theman93]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

In other words Jordan nearly doubles Pippen in scoring while simultaneously almost equaling him in every other statistical category save for rebounds? Sheesh. GOAT talk.

[97 bulls]

In other words Jordan nearly doubles Pippen in scoring while simultaneously almost equaling him in every other statistical category save for rebounds? Sheesh. GOAT talk.

He nearly doubler his FGA as well.

[97 bulls]

After watching the Bulls in 94, I'm convinced the Bulls didn't need Jordan scoring 30+ a night to win those Championships.

[Gudo]

He nearly doubler his FGA as well.

Well, that goes without saying. It's not like pip is scoring at a much higher fg%.

[ELITEpower23]

In other words Jordan nearly doubles Pippen in scoring while simultaneously almost equaling him in every other statistical category save for rebounds? Sheesh. GOAT talk.

MJ also took 58.35% more FGA

[97 bulls]

Well, that goes without saying. It's not like pip is scoring at a much higher fg%.

Obviously, Pippen is nowhere near the offensive weapon much less scoring in compariosn to Jordan. But they had different roles on the team. Itsva matter of what both players are best at. For instance, Doug Collins moved MJ to PG one year. The Bulls faired no better. When Phil Jackson moved Pippen to handle the PG duties, the Bulls began winning Championships.

That's why I say stop relegating a players impact down to his FG% and pts.

[Airupthere]

Obviously, Pippen is nowhere near the offensive weapon much less scoring in compariosn to Jordan. But they had different roles on the team. Itsva matter of what both players are best at. For instance, Doug Collins moved MJ to PG one year. The Bulls faired no better. When Phil Jackson moved Pippen to handle the PG duties, the Bulls began winning Championships.

That's why I say stop relegating a players impact down to his FG% and pts.

I agree with this. Bronsexuals are obssessed with one player dominating the stats even if that translates to lower rings and more losses than wins in the finals.

[ScottieQuitting]

Nope. And here's the kicker. Jordan was also a great playmaker and defender. So the "all-around play" from Pippen barely made up for his lackluster scoring, especially from 96-98. We've seen the numbers. He stunk up the joint.

True

[tpols]

He nearly doubler his FGA as well.

If you let Pippen take 25 shots a game Barkley, Malone and Payton would all have rings. Maybe Ewing too.

[97 bulls]

If you let Pippen take 25 shots a game Barkley, Malone and Payton would all have rings. Maybe Ewing too.

But that's not the point T. I mean, I'm a Pippen fan and I wouldn't want him taking as many shots as MJ. But I know his impact.

[3ba11]

Every notable 90's sidekick was a much better scorer than Pippen but simply underperformed against MJ because the top players from opposing teams were mostly guards that wet the bed against MJ.

This includes Magic, Stockton, Drexler, Porter, Price, Harper, Isiah, Dumars, Payton, Reggie Miller, Tim Hardaway, Starks, Hersey Hawkins, Majerle, KJ, Penny, Steve Smith - you name it - they all wet the bed against MJ the vast majority of the times they faced him.

i.e. Dumars exceeded 14 ppg once in four tries against MJ, while Isiah reached 41% shooting once.

So opposing sidekicks simply wet the bed against MJ, but otherwise they were easily superior scorers to Pippen.. Among notable 90's sidekicks, Pippen had the worst passing, efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg), spacing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBbmIE_Kxc&t=114s), clutch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=259s), and lowest peak capability (wasn't on scouting report (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif)), which forced MJ to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry the scoring load) in every series (unique to Jordan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s)).

[RogueBorg]

I think a fair argument can be made that Pippen played Jordan to a standstill in 91 NBA Finals

Awww hell no.

Jordan was 31.2-6.6-11.4 on .558 shooting and .500 from 3
Pippen was 20.8-9.4-6.6 on .453 shooting and .200 from 3.

Both had the same Drtg 102.0

This is your idea of playing to a standstill?

[ShawkFactory]

Awww hell no.

Jordan was 31.2-6.6-11.4 on .558 shooting and .500 from 3
Pippen was 20.8-9.4-6.6 on .453 shooting and .200 from 3.

Both had the same Drtg 102.0

This is your idea of playing to a standstill?

Yea not even close. Jordan played perfect basketball in that series.

Scottie was definitely the second best player on the court though.

[3ba11]

Yea not even close. Jordan played perfect basketball in that series.

Scottie was definitely the second best player on the court though.


That's like saying Siakam > Curry in 2019.. Pippen wasn't considered a good player in 91' and no one thought he outplayed Magic - that would be absurd to say at the time

Pippen was the least-defended player in the series and had zero burden compared to Magic - Magic had a lot of responsibility while Pippen had none and wasn't defended - anyone can get 20 ppg in Pippen's spot alongside the goat scorer to attract all the attention

Every notable 90's sidekick was a much better scorer than Pippen but simply underperformed against MJ because the top players from opposing teams were mostly guards that wet the bed against MJ.

This includes Magic, Stockton, Drexler, Porter, Price, Harper, Isiah, Dumars, Payton, Reggie Miller, Tim Hardaway, Starks, Hersey Hawkins, Majerle, KJ, Penny, Steve Smith - you name it - they all wet the bed against MJ the vast majority of the times they faced him.

So opposing sidekicks simply wet the bed against MJ, but otherwise they were easily superior scorers to Pippen.. Among notable 90's sidekicks, Pippen had the worst passing, efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg), spacing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBbmIE_Kxc&t=114s), clutch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=259s), and lowest peak capability (wasn't on scouting report (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif)), which forced MJ to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry the scoring load) in every series (unique to Jordan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s)).

[ShawkFactory]

That's like saying Siakam > Curry in 2019.. Pippen wasn't considered a good player in 91' and no one thought he outplayed Magic - that would be absurd to say at the time

Pippen was the least-defended player in the series and had zero burden compared to Magic - Magic had a lot of responsibility while Pippen had none and wasn't defended - anyone can get 20 ppg in Pippen's spot alongside the goat scorer to attract all the attention

Every notable 90's sidekick was a much better scorer than Pippen but simply underperformed against MJ because the top players from opposing teams were mostly guards that wet the bed against MJ.

This includes Magic, Stockton, Drexler, Porter, Price, Harper, Isiah, Dumars, Payton, Reggie Miller, Tim Hardaway, Starks, Hersey Hawkins, Majerle, KJ, Penny, Steve Smith - you name it - they all wet the bed against MJ the vast majority of the times they faced him.

So opposing sidekicks simply wet the bed against MJ, but otherwise they were easily superior scorers to Pippen.. Among notable 90's sidekicks, Pippen had the worst passing, efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg), spacing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmBbmIE_Kxc&t=114s), clutch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=259s), and lowest peak capability (wasn't on scouting report (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2022/qrDm8n.gif)), which forced MJ to defeat maximum defensive attention (carry the scoring load) in every series (unique to Jordan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s)).

I didn’t say he was a better basketball player than Magic. Just that he performed at a very high level in that series in all facets.

[Axe]

Awww hell no.

Jordan was 31.2-6.6-11.4 on .558 shooting and .500 from 3
Pippen was 20.8-9.4-6.6 on .453 shooting and .200 from 3.

Both had the same Drtg 102.0

This is your idea of playing to a standstill?
You just responded to a year-old post. :yaohappy:

[3ba11]

I didn’t say he was a better basketball player than Magic. Just that he performed at a very high level in that series in all facets.


no one thought he was the 2nd best player on the floor

And again, Pippen was never a good scorer - he averaged 20 from the system and also never being asked to make meaningful shots - Paxson was preferred for meaningful shots, or Kukoc or Kerr (shooters).. they made the scouting report and Pippen didn't - Pippen was just a dunker that was left open while the defense focused on MJ.. his peak capability was lowest of any 90's sidekick (no gameplanning required).. he actually couldn't play outside the system (1999) and conceded that he could only win with Jordan (he said that he couldn't provide the shooting required of center-focused offens, aka he couldn't win with any other 90's 1at options)

[Full Court]

There's levels to GOATness. Despite the Bronie fluffer meltdowns and damage control, Bronie just isn't in MJ's league.

[Keno]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

embarrassing, this further explains 1-9. :oldlol:

[Full Court]

embarrassing, this further explains 1-9. :oldlol:

So relatively close numbers in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, and then Jordan scored 72% more points.

Nice try. :roll:

[Soundwave]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

This image doesn't really make the point detractors think it does, lol.

Jordan has nearly identical number of assists (playmaking totals) while shouldering a much higher burden of scoring. That's not a plus in Scottie's favor.

Like the assist difference means Pippen basically had one more total assist in basically every series versus Jordan ... lol ... that's nothing.

Jordan provides nearly the same number of assists, steals, and blocks even while scoring way more.