Could Bill Russell have carried a team on both ends as Wilt along with MJ and LBJ did

[coastalmarker99]

The countless says that Russell's is not a "terrible" offensive player and his defence and leadership alone could turn a lottery team into a contender.


So that begs the question I am asking everyone on Inside Hoops if Russell who averaged 16ppg on 43%FG in the playoffs plus 60% from FT line


was put on lottery team teams that MJ Kareem and Lebron along with Wilt carried on both ends of the court such as the 1977 Lakers or 1988 Bulls or 2007 Cavs plus the 1964 Warriors.



How Russell would have fared if he replaced all of those players I named in those seasons.

[coastalmarker99]

For the 1987- 1988 season, I say hell no to a prime Russell even being able to replace MJ's production on both sides of the court as MJ was the scoring champion that 1987-1988 season along with the DPOY.


It took MJ averaging 35 points on 52 percent shooting all the while playing DPOY defence to get that team to a 50 and 32 record that season even if Russell somehow makes the playoffs with MJ's supporting cast I think he goes out in the first round.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Nope, Russell isn't carrying shit on offense. He peaked as a Scottie Pippen level scorer. His assist % was like shaq level but way worse scoring.

But kareem's assists % was awful as well, he had an embarrassing 9% in his 1971 title run.

I can only imagine if kawhi had point guards that were at the level of bob cousy, oscar, magic. I bet if you gave kawhi those caliber of point guards, kawhi's TS would be like 79% and I'm not exaggerating either. He also wouldn't have to break his back like he did in 2017/2021 to run offenses without a point guard. Kareem was always a spoiled son of a bitch when it came to the luxury of point guards on his team as he went from oscar to magic. Scoring wings and bigs benefit massively from passing point guards unless you're LeBron. I've pulled out the stat in the past, kareem's assist % was usually getting tripled during his title runs.

Kareem wasn't doing much with Lakers before magic came along.

That's why giannis is better then all these big guys, he doesn't have to be baby fed by point guards. Giannis is the point guard pretty much.

[RogueBorg]

The countless says that Russell's is not a "terrible" offensive player and his defence and leadership alone could turn a lottery team into a contender.


So that begs the question I am asking everyone on Inside Hoops if Russell who averaged 16ppg on 43%FG in the playoffs plus 60% from FT line


was put on lottery team teams that MJ Kareem and Lebron along with Wilt carried on both ends of the court such as the 1977 Lakers or 1988 Bulls or 2007 Cavs plus the 1964 Warriors.



How Russell would have fared if he replaced all of those players I named in those seasons.

In 1961 teams averaged 109 FG attempts per game, Russell averaged 16.9 ppg that season. By 2000, teams were averaging 78.2 FG attempts per game. If you adjust for pace, Russell would have averaged 12.1 ppg in 2000. Can't carry a team like that in an era with 30 teams. 8 teams yes, not 30.

[coastalmarker99]

In 1961 teams averaged 109 FG attempts per game, Russell averaged 16.9 ppg that season. By 2000, teams were averaging 78.2 FG attempts per game. If you adjust for pace, Russell would have averaged 12.1 ppg in 2000. Can't carry a team like that in an era with 30 teams. 8 teams yes, not 30.

:applause:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

In 1961 teams averaged 109 FG attempts per game, Russell averaged 16.9 ppg that season. By 2000, teams were averaging 78.2 FG attempts per game. If you adjust for pace, Russell would have averaged 12.1 ppg in 2000. Can't carry a team like that in an era with 30 teams. 8 teams yes, not 30.

Those are bullshit stats. There were guys like Jerry West averaging 30PPG every year. Russell just didn't have what it takes to be a #1 scorer

[3ba11]

If a player never wins organically then we never know whether they can and must assume they can't

So Lebron isn't in the class of MJ or Wilt - he was a 1-trick pony like Iverson or Dwight until the "decision" to stack the deck in a weak conference

[RRR3]

I’m not saying Russell was a great scorer because he wasn’t but his FG% is mostly an indicator of him being used incorrectly. Imagine if the Hawks told Clint Capela to post up and take running hook shots for his offense. Russell was an athletic monster who was 6’10, if he was used mainly as a play finisher like he should have been his FG% would have been excellent.

[RRR3]

If a player never wins organically then we never know whether they can and must assume they can't

So Lebron isn't in the class of MJ or Wilt - he was a 1-trick pony like Iverson or Dwight until the "decision" to stack the deck in a weak conference
Literally has nothing to do with the thread. IP ban time.

[Druckenmiller]

Bill Russell never shot 46 percent from the field in a single season. He shot 41 percent one year and 43 a bunch of others.

And while everyone likes to give Wilt crap for his FT shooting Russell wasn’t much better.

Russell played on a team that didn’t ask him to post up and score or shoulder a big offensive burden. He ran the floor, got offensive rebounds and an occasional dunker spot attempt and still never even came remotely close to making half his shots.

I would have to think really long and hard to name a center or post player who shot 41 percent from the field and helped carry his team offensively. Laughable.

[And1AllDay]

mike wasnt the anchor pip was

that leaves only bran, wilt, duncan, bean

[coastalmarker99]

Bill Russell never shot 46 percent from the field in a single season. He shot 41 percent one year and 43 a bunch of others.

And while everyone likes to give Wilt crap for his FT shooting Russell wasn’t much better.

Russell played on a team that didn’t ask him to post up and score or shoulder a big offensive burden. He ran the floor, got offensive rebounds and an occasional dunker spot attempt and still never even came remotely close to making half his shots.

I would have to think really long and hard to name a center or post player who shot 41 percent from the field and helped carry his team offensively. Laughable.

:applause:

[iamgine]

Obviously not. His strength was in defense, rebounding and leadership. Although his offense numbers was bad, I'd say for his time his offense would be around Bam Adebayo level if compared to his peers.

Bam Adebayo certainly could not carry a team offensively like MJ or LBJ.

[Carbine]

It's too bad we have people being disrespectful to a player of his caliber and unblemished ENTIRE basketball career.

If you wish to bash Russell, you aren't my people. He examplefies everything that's good about winning basketball.

[And1AllDay]

It's too bad we have people being disrespectful to a player of his caliber and unblemished ENTIRE basketball career.

If you wish to bash Russell, you aren't my people. He examplefies everything that's good about winning basketball.

-play on stacked team
-only play defense
-shit on offense
-8 teams in league

[Carbine]

I'm comfortable enough in my opinion that I don't need to waste time defending Russell anymore. I have a PHD on studying his career. I'm talking to a teenager who doesn't have the grades to get into this class.

If that's your opinion on Russell, so be it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It's too bad we have people being disrespectful to a player of his caliber and unblemished ENTIRE basketball career.

If you wish to bash Russell, you aren't my people. He examplefies everything that's good about winning basketball.

In fairness, that poster discredits everyone. Not named Lebron James.

[RRR3]

In fairness, that poster discredits everyone. Not named Lebron James.
*Wilt. Idk if OP even likes LeBron he’s a Wilt guy though. Thought he was Jlauber at first.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

*Wilt. Idk if OP even likes LeBron he’s a Wilt guy though. Thought he was Jlauber at first.

I quoted the wrong post. Meant to reply above, the one directed at And1Allday.

Pretty sure that's who Carbine aimed his insult at. :lol

[coastalmarker99]

*Wilt. Idk if OP even likes LeBron he’s a Wilt guy though. Thought he was Jlauber at first.

Lebron is one of my favourite players of all time along with Magic and Giannis.

[Gudo]

Lebron is one of my favourite players of all time along with Magic and Giannis.

Common denominator: youre a fan of physical freaks. No shaq or zion?

[8Ball]

It's too bad we have people being disrespectful to a player of his caliber and unblemished ENTIRE basketball career.

If you wish to bash Russell, you aren't my people. He examplefies everything that's good about winning basketball.

Russell is bashed because he is always placed too high in all time lists. He isn't a better basketball player vs anyone in the top 10 or even top 15.

[coastalmarker99]

Russell is bashed because he is always placed too high in all time lists. He isn't a better basketball player vs anyone in the top 10 or even top 15.

That's true.

[iamgine]

Russell is bashed because he is always placed too high in all time lists. He isn't a better basketball player vs anyone in the top 10 or even top 15.

It's GOAT list though. Greater is different from better.

[The Closer]

Wilt never carried a team, he just put up empty stats and choked when it mattered most

The only time he won championships was as the 4th option

[The Closer]

It's GOAT list though. Greater is different from better.

This Russell is the greatest

But as a talent he's not even top 10

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt never carried a team, he just put up empty stats and choked when it mattered most

The only time he won championships was as the 4th option

Wilt's 1963-1964 season is one of the greatest single carryjob seasons in NBA history. As No other all-time great as had a weaker supporting cast around him in the NBA Finals than '64 Wilt.

The Warriors finished 3rd in SRS with a rookie Nate Thurmond and players like Wayne Hightower, Tom Meschery, and Guy Rodgers leading in shots. Wilt had a .325 WS/48 in the regular season (3rd all-time), and his .323 WS/48 playoff run is 4th all-time in the Shot Clock Era.

In the WDF, with his team playing poorly, Wilt put up 38.6 PPG on a +7.8 rTS%.

In the Finals, he finished with 29.2 PPG on a +2.4 rTS% against the greatest defense of all-time. Only one other player (Tom Meschery) shot above 35 FG% in that series.

This year Kevin Durant had a spectacular performance against the Bucks--he played heavy minutes while his team was injured and/or playing poorly. This was basically Wilt Chamberlain every postseason before '67, and Wilt was doing it against far superior competition than the '21 Milwaukee Bucks.

The mixture of scoring, passing, rebounding, and defence that Wilt provides is so impactful to a team and it's why i don't understand the narrative that his stats and impact were all empty.

[8Ball]

It's GOAT list though. Greater is different from better.


The define what make a player greater than another.


Because if its just championships there's a bunch of celtic bums greater than jordan.


You actually have to dig into basketball ability and individual performance when comparing greatness of players.

[8Ball]

This Russell is the greatest

But as a talent he's not even top 10

How these 2 sentences are written together are a mystery.


If you are talking just rings then half a dozen celtics from the 60s are greater than jordan?

[iamgine]

The define what make a player greater than another.


Because if its just championships there's a bunch of celtic bums greater than jordan.


You actually have to dig into basketball ability and individual performance when comparing greatness of players.
It's subjective to every person what they consider greater and how they weigh different factors.

[Stephonit]

Does attempting to carry a team on both ends win you games?

[The Closer]

The define what make a player greater than another.


Because if its just championships there's a bunch of celtic bums greater than jordan.


You actually have to dig into basketball ability and individual performance when comparing greatness of players.

It's a combination of a lot of things that define greatness which are mostly subjective to the individual

[The Closer]

How these 2 sentences are written together are a mystery.


If you are talking just rings then half a dozen celtics from the 60s are greater than jordan?

We're not talking just rings are we

[The Closer]

Wilt's 1963-1964 season is one of the greatest single carryjob seasons in NBA history. As No other all-time great as had a weaker supporting cast around him in the NBA Finals than '64 Wilt.

The Warriors finished 3rd in SRS with a rookie Nate Thurmond and players like Wayne Hightower, Tom Meschery, and Guy Rodgers leading in shots. Wilt had a .325 WS/48 in the regular season (3rd all-time), and his .323 WS/48 playoff run is 4th all-time in the Shot Clock Era.

In the WDF, with his team playing poorly, Wilt put up 38.6 PPG on a +7.8 rTS%.

In the Finals, he finished with 29.2 PPG on a +2.4 rTS% against the greatest defense of all-time. Only one other player (Tom Meschery) shot above 35 FG% in that series.

This year Kevin Durant had a spectacular performance against the Bucks--he played heavy minutes while his team was injured and/or playing poorly. This was basically Wilt Chamberlain every postseason before '67, and Wilt was doing it against far superior competition than the '21 Milwaukee Bucks.

The mixture of scoring, passing, rebounding, and defence that Wilt provides is so impactful to a team and it's why i don't understand the narrative that his stats and impact were all empty.

Common theme with Wilt is always how his teammates are so bad and never how Wilt failed to elevate his teammates like Russell

[And1AllDay]

only double carry jobs are

bran, wilt, duncan, kobe

magic had kareem
mike had pip
shaq had kobe

[And1AllDay]

Does attempting to carry a team on both ends win you games?

if curry played defense would he have won at least one finals mvp voting? sorry bruh :oldlol: roasted yourself

[TAZORAC]

The countless says that Russell's is not a "terrible" offensive player and his defence and leadership alone could turn a lottery team into a contender.


So that begs the question I am asking everyone on Inside Hoops if Russell who averaged 16ppg on 43%FG in the playoffs plus 60% from FT line


was put on lottery team teams that MJ Kareem and Lebron along with Wilt carried on both ends of the court such as the 1977 Lakers or 1988 Bulls or 2007 Cavs plus the 1964 Warriors.



How Russell would have fared if he replaced all of those players I named in those seasons.

Russell was limited offensively even back in the 60s.