NO Chris Paul Attacking. He stacks up well with all the best you can stack it to him

[DevBooker'sMask]

Name
Playoffs Career Averages for the players in questioning

Chris P:
21/8/5/2 with 2.6 TO and shooting splits of 48/37/85
Magic J:
20/12/8/2 with 3.7 TO and shooting splits of 51/24/83
Isiah T:
20/9/5/2 with 3.3 TO and shooting splits of 44/35/77
John S:
13/10/3/2 with 2.8 TO and shooting splits of 47/33/81

As well can see among these all timers

Chris is a leader in: Points, lowest TO, 3P%, and FT%
Magic is the leader in: Assists, Rebounds, FG% (worst 3P%)
Isiah is the leader in: No categories
John is the leader in: No categories

[coastalmarker99]

CP3 is an absolute all-time great player when the pressure isn't on.

​

However, when the stakes are at its highest he consistently finds a way to either choke, flop, disappear fake an injury or get a real injury. Never fails.

[coastalmarker99]

His box score doesn't indicate how bad he really was tonight.

Throwing the ball to teammates in bad angles causing them to turn it over, being super passive, the Bucks targetting him and scoring multiple times..

[coastalmarker99]

If CP3 can not get it done with how everything has gone so perfectly right for the Suns throughout the first 3 rounds and with a 2 0 lead in the finals.



I never ever want people to say he is better than Zeke again.

[RRR3]

CP3 is an absolute all-time great player when the pressure isn't on.

​

However, when the stakes are at its highest he consistently finds a way to either choke, flop, disappear fake an injury or get a real injury. Never fails.
The absolute irony of a Wilt fan saying this

[coastalmarker99]

The absolute irony of a Wilt fan saying this

Shut the **** up at least Wilt has 2 rings and 2 finals MVP's to his name.

[coastalmarker99]

The absolute irony of a Wilt fan saying this

Give me the list of all of the NBA players in its entire history who put up entire post-seasons of:

20-20 post-seasons? Wilt had Eight.

25-20 post-seasons? Wilt with Six.

30-20 post-seasons? Four.

30-25 post-seasons? Three.

35-25 post-seasons? One.

Narrow it down even further:

28-20 post-seasons? Six.

28-25 post-seasons? Five.

28-30 post-seasons? One.

[MadDog]

Series aint over, but Sissy Paul fans spoke too soon. :oldlol: In reality all those points got a case over him. You mentioned Isiah, and while he might've not "led in any categories", he definitely had a better finals. Arguably 2 that were better.

[RRR3]

Shut the **** up at least Wilt has 2 rings and 2 finals MVP's to his name.
At least Chris Paul generally maintains the same level of production in the playoffs. CP3 was pretty obviously going to win a ring in 2018 if he hadn’t got hurt and he would have beaten the GOAT team to do it too. Also this series isn’t over. Btw Wilt literally lost to a blew .500 team in the playoffs and not only did he lose he got swept. CP3 will never top that choke (not sure anyone will). Wilt consistently had his stats go down a ton in the playoffs and finals, there’s been threads about it.

[coastalmarker99]

The absolute irony of a Wilt fan saying this




Here are Wilt's numbers in the 23 must-win games he played in the postseason ...13 of which came against HOF starting centers.

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)

26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)

3.4 APG (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)

54.0 FG% (Regular season career average was .54.0 FG%)

BTW, that 54.0 came against post-season NBA's that averaged an FG% of .43.5... or OVER 10% higher than the post-season league average!


3 games of 50+ points

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

BTW, that 31.1 ppg ranks just behind Lebron (31.9 ppg), and MJ (31.3 ppg) ALL-TIME.

[RRR3]

Series aint over, but Sissy Paul fans spoke too soon. :oldlol: In reality all those points got a case over him. You mentioned Isiah, and while he might've not "led in any categories", he's already had a better finals. Arguably 2 that were better.
Isiah was retired at the same age CP3 is at so who cares what he did in his prime? CP3 would be having a better series if he was still 28 too lol. And he’s been fine, good outside of game 4. Not incredible but he’s been solid.

[coastalmarker99]

At least Chris Paul generally maintains the same level of production in the playoffs. CP3 was pretty obviously going to win a ring in 2018 if he hadn’t got hurt and he would have beaten the GOAT team to do it too. Also this series isn’t over. Btw Wilt literally lost to a blew .500 team in the playoffs and not only did he lose he got swept. CP3 will never top that choke (not sure anyone will). Wilt consistently had his stats go down a ton in the playoffs and finals, there’s been threads about it.

In the 60-61 season when Wilt got swept by a below 500 team.

Here are the field goal percentages of himself and his teams relative to the NBA's average that season.

60-61:

Wilt: .46.9

Team: .33.2

League: .40.3

[MadDog]

Isiah was retired at the same age CP3 is at so who cares what he did in his prime? CP3 would be having a better series if he was still 28 too lol. And he’s been fine, good outside of game 4. Not incredible but he’s been solid.

But he didn't. And what do you mean who cares? People who value prime and peak play care. In other words, the majority of basketball fans.

[3ba11]

Great players get help and they win - CP3 has gotten more help for 2 decades than MJ ever had, and he barely makes the Finals 1 time and then gets starched.

ball-domination and predictable gonna ball-dominate and predictable

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Great players get help and they win - CP3 has gotten more help for 2 decades than MJ ever had, and he barely makes the Finals 1 time and then gets starched.

ball-domination and predictable gonna ball-dominate and predictable

Also his teammates don't like him. Nobody likes Paul. That's why his teammates didn't even defend him after Patrick Beverly pushed him to the ground from behind. Rondo said publicly a few years ago that Chris Paul is the most hated teammate.

I would probably end up knocking Chris Paul out if I was teammate. He just gives those piece of shit vibes.

[ELITEpower23]

Isiah was retired at the same age CP3 is at so who cares what he did in his prime? CP3 would be having a better series if he was still 28 too lol. And he’s been fine, good outside of game 4. Not incredible but he’s been solid.

+1 Who the hell is comparing a 36 year old CP3 to prime Isiah. The funny part is CP3 still stacks up well overall, which is very telling to say the least.

[MadDog]

+1 Who the hell is comparing a 36 year old CP3 to prime Isiah. The funny part is CP3 still stacks up well overall, which is very telling to say the least.

The OP is brainiac. He literally posted their career averages.

[coastalmarker99]

Booker +12

CP3 -6

Yet the CP3 lover RR3 is trying to throw everyone else on the Suns under the bus for the loss and not CP3 who didn't show up until the fourth.

[ELITEpower23]

The OP is brainiac. He literally posted their career averages.

You did acutally you retard


Series aint over, but Sissy Paul fans spoke too soon. :oldlol: In reality all those points got a case over him. You mentioned Isiah, and while he might've not "led in any categories", he definitely had a better finals. Arguably 2 that were better.

You compared Isiah's Finals in his prime to Chris Paul's at age 36. You seem rattled take care of yourself.

[coastalmarker99]

CP3 played well in the clutch in this game 5 but don't let that 21/11 statline fool you, he was bad in the 1st 3 quarters.

6 mins in the 2nd quarter vs. no Giannis and he led the Suns from a 16-pt lead to a 3-pt deficit.

He was guarded by Portis in 1 possession, made a horrible pass that led to a TO and Bucks transition Bucket.

He was only credited 1 TO officially but he made at least 4-5 bad plays that led to TO being credited to other Suns players

[MadDog]

You did acutally you retard



You compared Isiah's Finals in his prime to Chris Paul's at age 36. You seem rattled take care of yourself.

The OP posted career numbers and I followed suit. :confusedshrug: Don't comment if you cant keep up.

[RRR3]

In the 60-61 season when Wilt got swept by a below 500 team.

Here are the field goal percentages of himself and his teams relative to the NBA's average that season.

60-61:

Wilt: .46.9

Team: .33.2

League: .40.3
You can’t just apply context for Wilt and refuse to do it for CP3, that’s hypocritical.

[RRR3]

Booker +12

CP3 -6

Yet the CP3 lover RR3 is trying to throw everyone else on the Suns under the bus for the loss and not CP3 who didn't show up until the fourth.
Single game +/-, yikes.


Not sure how Booker would have stopped the massive Bucks run in the second quarter considering he’s a horrible defender. I didn’t say CP3 was amazing I just said he was solid and I wouldn’t blame him for the game tonight.

[ELITEpower23]

The OP posted career numbers and I followed suit. :confusedshrug: Don't comment if you cant keep up.

I'll type it out slowly for the people that need additional time

Chris Paul at 36 = Isiah Thomas's prime

better?

[coastalmarker99]

I'll type it out slowly for the people that need additional time

Chris Paul at 36 = Isiah Thomas's prime

better?


Zeke two rings and a finals MVP should be two finals MVP'S plus a three-peat if the Refs didn't **** over the Pistons in 1988.

[RRR3]

Zeke two rings and a finals MVP should be two finals MVP'S plus a three-peat if the Refs didn't **** over the Pistons in 1988.
I guess Zeke=Wilt by this logic. He actually improved his game in the playoffs so maybe you’re right...

[warriorfan]

Cp3 played way too passive and forced Booker to carry hard through 3 quarters. While cp3 is a good defender, he’s too small and got targeted by the Bucks on multiple possessions where he got manhandled. He cost them the game.

[Proctor]

CP0 no FMVP
Possibly no ring
Playoff shrinker
Gets dunked on in front of LeDaddy in the audience

https://i.postimg.cc/Jhm4wx2h/NO9KDK_facebook.gif

[ELITEpower23]

CP0 no FMVP
Possibly no ring
Playoff shrinker
Gets dunked on in front of LeDaddy in the audience

https://i.postimg.cc/Jhm4wx2h/NO9KDK_facebook.gif

The Bois Stay Winning :cheers: :dancin

https://i.postimg.cc/Jhm4wx2h/NO9KDK_facebook.gif

[RRR3]

CP0 no FMVP
Possibly no ring
Playoff shrinker
Gets dunked on in front of LeDaddy in the audience

https://i.postimg.cc/Jhm4wx2h/NO9KDK_facebook.gif
Can’t really think of a time he shrunk in the playoffs tbh. Teams have had some meltdowns which I guess you can blame on him but he’s generally been the same player he is in the playoffs. Also just has bad luck. He probably wins today if Booker could pass. That said had to be tough to lose in front of Bron. It’s hilarious what an easy ring Bron would have had this year if he and AD stayed healthy lmao.

[coastalmarker99]

If the Suns end up losing these finals the only player that would have blown FOUR 2-0 series leads in NBA history is

Chris Paul

That’s it.

[ELITEpower23]

If the Suns end up losing these finals the only player that would have blown FOUR 2-0 series leads in NBA history is

Chris Paul

That’s it.

That is some pretty damaging evidence right there. How can you spin it any other way if he crumbles again

[Proctor]

Can’t really think of a time he shrunk in the playoffs tbh. Teams have had some meltdowns which I guess you can blame on him but he’s generally been the same player he is in the playoffs. Also just has bad luck. He probably wins today if Booker could pass. That said had to be tough to lose in front of Bron. It’s hilarious what an easy ring Bron would have had this year if he and AD stayed healthy lmao.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/d749e0962bd7071329c46b8e56120a6a/tenor.gif

[RRR3]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/d749e0962bd7071329c46b8e56120a6a/tenor.gif
Yeah but you’re biased and still mad about the game winner he hit on y’all.

[coastalmarker99]

Here is Chris Paul playoff record vs other great point guards

0-2 vs Westbrook
0-2 vs Harden
1-2 vs Curry
0-1 vs Dame

[Proctor]

Yeah but you’re biased and still mad about the game winner he hit on y’all.

2-0....four times

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1bba8e79c07654433795e2c4efe26792/tenor.gif

[RRR3]

If the Suns end up losing these finals the only player that would have blown FOUR 2-0 series leads in NBA history is

Chris Paul

That’s it.
Wilt never increased his scoring in the playoffs. Not a single time. You don’t want to go down this road. At least pick MJ or LeBron if you’re gonna do this lol

[RRR3]

Here is Chris Paul playoff record vs other great point guards

0-2 vs Westbrook
0-2 vs Harden
1-2 vs Curry
0-1 vs Dame
Why are we giving him a loss vs Curry in 2018, how is that remotely fair?

Was he supposed to use the force to make Harden stop sucking? Also it’s almost like Westbrook had Durant lol

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt never increased his scoring in the playoffs. Not a single time. You don’t want to go down this road. At least pick MJ or LeBron if you’re gonna do this lol


I don't care about that now stop deflecting my comments with stuff about Wilt.

Plus i have seen many people criticize Wilt for his drop in scoring average, but fail to add the proper context that is needed.





As highlighted in of my threads about the Celtics defensive scheme on Wilt.


Wilt faced a large amount of double and triple teams due to the refs allowing illegal defence to be played. This made it difficult to get shots in a half-court setting leading to fewer shots in the playoffs.

It's also important to remember Wilt was going up against some of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history each playoff run.

Wilt Regular Season TS%: '62-'68: 54.8%

Wilt Playoffs TS%: '62-'68: 52.8%

That is a 2-percentage drop off versus all-time level defence each year.

A dip in efficiency is expected, but couple that with a decrease in FGA from lack of playmakers--being denied the ball and that explains his drop in points.

[RRR3]

I don't care about that stop deflecting my comments with stuff about Wilt.
Not until you stop being a hypocrite.

[Proctor]

Not until you stop being a hypocrite.
Chris Small is a vile, frontrunning little piece of passive aggressive shit. Prepare for the deluge if the little guy blows another series.

[coastalmarker99]

Not until you stop being a hypocrite.

Ok time to blow up your "choker" myth about Wilt a bit more analytically: Here is Wilt's regular season (RS) vs playoff (PO) scoring season by season vs the same opponent:

1960:
vs Nationals-- RS: 38, PO: 38.7 (adv.PO
vs Celtics-- RS: 39.9, PO: 30.5 (adv. RS)

1961:
vs Nationals-- RS: 39.9, PO: 37 (adv. RS)

1962:
vs Nationals-- RS: 48, PO: 37 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 41.7 (incl. games that Russell missed), PO: 33.6 (adv. RS)

1964:
vs Hawks-- RS: 32.8, PO: 38.6 (adv. PO
vs Celtics-- RS: 29.1, PO: 29.2 (adv. PO

1965 (playing for Sixers):
vs Royals-- RS: 36.8, PO: 27.8 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 25.0, PO: 30.1 (adv. PO

1966:
vs Celtics-- RS: 28.3, PO: 28 (adv. RS)

1967:
vs Royals-- RS: 28.6, PO: 28 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 20.3, PO: 21.6 (adv. PO
vs Warriors-- RS: 20.7, PO: 17.7 (adv. RS)

1968:
vs Knicks-- RS: 22.6, PO: 25.5 (adv. PO
vs Celtics-- RS: 17.1, PO: 22.1 (adv. PO

1969:
vs Warriors-- RS: 12.6, PO: 12.0 (adv. RS)
vs Hawks-- RS: 17.9, PO: 19.2 (adv. "]PO
vs Celtics-- RS: 16.3, PO: 11.7 (adv. RS)

1970:
Too small RS samples

1971:
vs Bulls-- RS: 21.2, PO: 15.7 (adv. RS)
vs Bucks-- RS: 23.2, PO: 22 (adv. RS)

1972:
vs Bulls-- RS: 8.8, PO: 14.5 (adv. PO
vs Knicks-- RS: 16.8, PO: 19.4 (adv. PO

1973:
vs Bulls-- RS: 11.5, PO: 12 (adv. PO
vs Warriors-- RS: 5.7, PO: 7 (adv. PO
vs Knicks-- RS: 9.3, PO: 11.6 (adv. PO

RS vs PO: 13-13

Falls by 5+ ppg: 5
Raises by 5+ ppg: 4

Seems pretty even to me. Choker? I don't think so.

[RRR3]

Chris Small is a vile, frontrunning little piece of passive aggressive shit. Prepare for the deluge if the little guy blows another series.
Meh it’s whatever won’t be directed at me he’s not my favorite, LeBron is and I’m pretty satisfied with LeBron’s career. Hamtardo is the one who’ll get clowned. Still funny you’ve never gotten over that shot though :lol

[coastalmarker99]

Meh it’s whatever won’t be directed at me he’s not my favorite, LeBron is and I’m pretty satisfied with LeBron’s career. Hamtardo is the one who’ll get clowned. Still funny you’ve never gotten over that shot though :lol

I think he will be content with his team's 5 rings from 1999 to 2014 unlike your boy CP3 who might end up with zero rings for his entire career despite the fact that he might play 18 to 19 seasons in the NBA.

[RRR3]

Ok time to blow up your "choker" myth about Wilt a bit more analytically: Here is Wilt's regular season (RS) vs playoff (PO) scoring season by season vs the same opponent:

1960:
vs Nationals-- RS: 38, PO: 38.7 (adv.PO
vs Celtics-- RS: 39.9, PO: 30.5 (adv. RS)

1961:
vs Nationals-- RS: 39.9, PO: 37 (adv. RS)

1962:
vs Nationals-- RS: 48, PO: 37 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 41.7 (incl. games that Russell missed), PO: 33.6 (adv. RS)

1964:
vs Hawks-- RS: 32.8, PO: 38.6 (adv. PO
vs Celtics-- RS: 29.1, PO: 29.2 (adv. PO

1965 (playing for Sixers):
vs Royals-- RS: 36.8, PO: 27.8 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 25.0, PO: 30.1 (adv. PO

1966:
vs Celtics-- RS: 28.3, PO: 28 (adv. RS)

1967:
vs Royals-- RS: 28.6, PO: 28 (adv. RS)
vs Celtics-- RS: 20.3, PO: 21.6 (adv. PO
vs Warriors-- RS: 20.7, PO: 17.7 (adv. RS)

1968:
vs Knicks-- RS: 22.6, PO: 25.5 (adv. PO
vs Celtics-- RS: 17.1, PO: 22.1 (adv. PO

1969:
vs Warriors-- RS: 12.6, PO: 12.0 (adv. RS)
vs Hawks-- RS: 17.9, PO: 19.2 (adv. "]PO
vs Celtics-- RS: 16.3, PO: 11.7 (adv. RS)

1970:
Too small RS samples

1971:
vs Bulls-- RS: 21.2, PO: 15.7 (adv. RS)
vs Bucks-- RS: 23.2, PO: 22 (adv. RS)

1972:
vs Bulls-- RS: 8.8, PO: 14.5 (adv. PO
vs Knicks-- RS: 16.8, PO: 19.4 (adv. PO

1973:
vs Bulls-- RS: 11.5, PO: 12 (adv. PO
vs Warriors-- RS: 5.7, PO: 7 (adv. PO
vs Knicks-- RS: 9.3, PO: 11.6 (adv. PO

RS vs PO: 13-13

Falls by 5+ ppg: 5
Raises by 5+ ppg: 4

Seems pretty even to me. Choker? I don't think so.
Karl Malone’s rebounds increased in the playoffs I guess he was clutch too

[coastalmarker99]

Karl Malone’s rebounds increased in the playoffs I guess he was clutch too

I am currently schooling you in this thread.

As you can be mad all you want and deflect my comments but deep down we all know CP3 is never going to be better than Zeke especially if he blows his fourth 2 0 series lead in his career.

[Proctor]

I think he will be content with his team's 5 rings from 1999 to 2014.
I don't even give a **** about some shot years ago, it's his coping mechanism. My distaste for CP0 goes back as long as I've been here. Same as Harden and every other frontrunning overrated bum.

You and me, we deal in facts and not emotional cheerleading :cheers:

[RRR3]

I am currently schooling you in this thread.

As you can be mad all you want and deflect my comments but deep down we all know CP3 is never going to be better than Zeke especially if he blows his fourth 2 0 series lead in his career.
You’re not though. You need to pick a different player to stan if you want to call CP3 a choker. Wilt isn’t a good choice lol. And yes obviously Wilt>CP3, I’m just saying you’re being inconsistent.

[RRR3]

I don't even give a **** about some shot years ago, it's his coping mechanism. My distaste for CP0 goes back as long as I've been here. Same as Harden and every other frontrunning overrated bum.

You and me, we deal in facts and not emotional cheerleading :cheers:
So you admit you’re just being a biased hater lol.

[coastalmarker99]

You’re not though. You need to pick a different player to stan if you want to call CP3 a choker. Wilt isn’t a good choice lol. And yes obviously Wilt>CP3, I’m just saying you’re being inconsistent.

I can tell you are furious as deep-down you just know that Cp3 is going to choke again and throw away the best chance at winning a ring he is ever going to get.

[MadDog]

How is the debate even Paul\Wilt? Adjust for pace. Or even consider CP3's numbers "never dipping" in the playoffs. Wilt's impact and production crush Sissy Paul. :oldlol:

[coastalmarker99]

How is the debate even Paul\Wilt? Adjust for pace. Or even consider CP3's numbers "never dipping" in the playoffs. Wilt's impact and production crush Sissy Paul. :oldlol:

Here are three of Wilt's playoff seasons stats from 1967 to 1969 now can RR3 please tell me if CP3 has ever played that well in the playoffs as Wilt did in those three seasons.

1967 PLAYOFFS 21.7 PTS 29.1 REBS 9.0 ASTS 9.2 BLKS FG% 57.9

1968 PLAYOFFS 23.7 PTS 24.7 REBS 6.5 ASTS 9.7 BLKS FG% 53.4

1969 PLAYOFFS 13.9 PTS 24.7 REBS 2.6 ASTS 8.5 BLKS FG% 54.5

[RRR3]

You are furious deep-down knowing that Cp3 is going to choke again and throw away the best chance at winning a ring he is ever going to get.
CP3 isn’t my favorite player, he’s not even in my top 4 all time. He’s at best 5th. I wanted him to lose in the first round this year lol. You’ve resorted to trolling because you can’t defend Wilt’s playoff scoring woes. I have Wilt in my top 5 btw and I have nothing against him as a player, you’re just being inconsistent and I hate that. If you were talking about MJ, LeBron or Shaq, I could understand it since they often raised their game in the playoffs. Wilt didn’t though.

[RRR3]

How is the debate even Paul\Wilt? Adjust for pace. Or even consider CP3's numbers "never dipping" in the playoffs. Wilt's impact and production crush Sissy Paul. :oldlol:
Jesus Christ no one is debating CP3 vs Wilt. I just said Wilt’s production declines more in the playoffs than CP3’s that’s just a fact. Everyone knows Wilt is better lol. Even CP3 would tell you that.

[MadDog]

Chris Small is a vile, frontrunning little piece of passive aggressive shit. Prepare for the deluge if the little guy blows another series.

If AD never went down, he would've still bitched about his shoulder. The moment AD is compromised, poof, Paul is magically healthy. Lol he's a professional con. Probably why he advertises insurance.

[coastalmarker99]

CP3 isn’t my favorite player, he’s not even in my top 4 all time. He’s at best 5th. I wanted him to lose in the first round this year lol. You’ve resorted to trolling because you can’t defend Wilt’s playoff scoring woes. I have Wilt in my top 5 btw and I have nothing against him as a player, you’re just being inconsistent and I hate that. If you were talking about MJ, LeBron or Shaq, I could understand it since they often raised their game in the playoffs. Wilt didn’t though.


Wilt averaged 33.2 points in the playoffs from 1959 to 1966 when he was mainly a scorer the only reason why his playoff scoring numbers are so low is that he changed his playstyle midway through his career to become more of an all-round player.




Also, he had to deal with less offensive physicality built into the 60s rules, unlike LeBron and Giannis who can get away with offensive fouls all the time.

If you include that factor, Wilt would have easily averaged even more points for his career as Wilt more or less wasn’t allowed to use his strength, which was arguably his greatest attribute.

[RRR3]

Wilt averaged 33.2 points in the playoffs from 1959 to 1966 when he was mainly a scorer the only reason why his playoff scoring numbers are so low is that he changed his playstyle midway through his career to become more of an all-round player.




Also, he had to deal with less offensive physicality built into the 60s rules, unlike LeBron and Giannis who can get away with offensive fouls all the time.

If you include that factor, Wilt would have easily averaged even more points for his career as Wilt more or less wasn’t allowed to use his strength, which was arguably his greatest attribute.
Why do you act like I think Wilt couldn’t score in the playoffs lol? All I said was his scoring declined every playoffs. Or at least never increased iirc. Obviously he could still score, he was a 7’1 athletic monster lol

[coastalmarker99]

Jesus Christ no one is debating CP3 vs Wilt. I just said Wilt’s production declines more in the playoffs than CP3’s that’s just a fact. Everyone knows Wilt is better lol. Even CP3 would tell you that.

The reason why Wilt's numbers appear so skewed in the playoffs compared to his regular-season stats is that.


He only played 1 series of 5 NBA Finals games as a scorer (attempting 24 shots per game in those 5 games) and averaged 29ppg that finals (averaged 33 vs those Celtics that regular season).


For the rest of his NBA Finals career, he literally took 11.7 shots per game for all the other series combined. Because he was older and chose to play a Russell like role on all those teams as they often had good shooters or other ball-dominant superstars much like the Celtics of that time.

[MadDog]

Jesus Christ no one is debating CP3 vs Wilt. I just said Wilt’s production declines more in the playoffs than CP3’s that’s just a fact. Everyone knows Wilt is better lol. Even CP3 would tell you that.

That's like someone knowing water is healthier for them, but insisting soda tastes better. Soda has sugar, and Paul had worse numbers than Wilt to begin with. :confusedshrug:

[coastalmarker99]

Why do you act like I think Wilt couldn’t score in the playoffs lol? All I said was his scoring declined every playoffs. Or at least never increased iirc. Obviously he could still score, he was a 7’1 athletic monster lol


Wilt's playoff scoring declined in his prime because he went from playing against awful-to-average defences for most of the reg season to all-time goat level defences for an entire series in the 1st-2nd rounds.

AVG D faced in the playoff alltime rankings.


1 Wilt Chamberlain -2.48 playoff games played 160

2 Kevin Garnett -2.02 playoff games played 133

3 Lebron James -1.8 playoff games played 260

4 Kobe Bryant -1.7 playoff games played 201

5 Shaquille O'Neal -1.51 playoff games played 199

6 Michael Jordan -1.11 playoff games played 178

7 Larry Bird -0.63 playoff games played 161

8 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -0.03 playoff games played 222

9 Tim Duncan 0.14 games playoff games played 252

10 Magic Johnson 0.38 games playoff games played 186

11 Bill Russell 0.98 playoff games played 167

12 Hakeem Olajuwon 1.05 playoff games played 140

[RRR3]

That's like someone knowing water is healthier for them, but insisting soda tastes better. Soda has sugar, and Paul had worse numbers than Wilt to begin with. :confusedshrug:
I realize you’re too retarded to even comprehend what argument I’m making so gonna just ignore you now.

[RRR3]

The reason why Wilt's numbers appear so skewed in the playoffs compared to his regular-season stats is that.


He only played 1 series of 5 NBA Finals games as a scorer (attempting 24 shots per game in those 5 games) and averaged 29ppg that finals (averaged 33 vs those Celtics that regular season).


For the rest of his NBA Finals career, he literally took 11.7 shots per game for all the other series combined. Because he was older and chose to play a Russell like role on all those teams as they often had good shooters or other ball-dominant superstars much like the Celtics of that time.
I know Wilt stopped being a scorer at some point in his career. Common knowledge. Doesn’t explain the consistent decline from his regular seasons though.

[MadDog]

I realize you’re too retarded to even comprehend what argument I’m making so gonna just ignore you now.

You're not making an argument. That's called being a petty bitch. :oldlol:

[coastalmarker99]

I know Wilt stopped being a scorer at some point in his career. Common knowledge. Doesn’t explain the consistent decline from his regular seasons though.

He played against the GOAT defence and the goat defender in the playoffs every single year that is the ****ing reason why his scoring numbers dropped in the playoffs. .


Here is a example of my logic


Wilt faced Russell and the Celtics eight times in the post-season.

Let's compare MJ and Shaq's numbers against their biggest playoff rivals, shall we?

MJ vs the Pistons:

87-88: Regular season against NBA. 35.0 ppg on .53,5 FG%
Against Detroit: 27.4 ppg on .49,1 FG%

88-89: Regular season. 32.5 ppg on .53,8 FG%
Against Detroit: 29.7 ppg on .46,0 FG%

89-90: Regular season. 33.6 ppg on .52,6 FG%
Against Detroit: 32.1 ppg on .46,7 FG%

90-91: Regular season. 31.5 ppg on .539 FG%
Against Detroit: 29.8 ppg on .53,5 FG%


Shaq vs. San Antonio:

98-99: Regular season. 26.3 ppg on .576 FG%
Against the Spurs: 23.8 ppg on .493 FG%

00-01: Regular season. 28.7 ppg on .572 FG%
Against the Spurs: 27.0 ppg on .541 FG%

01-02: Regular season. 27.2 ppg on .579 FG%
Against the Spurs: 21.4 ppg on .447 FG%

02-03: Regular season. 27.5 ppg on .574 FG%
Against the Spurs: 25.3 ppg on .559 FG%

03-04: Regular season. 21.5 ppg on .584 FG%
Against the Spurs. 22.5 ppg on .635 FG%

[RRR3]

Wilt's playoff scoring declined in his prime because he went from playing against awful-to-average defences for most of the reg season to all-time goat level defences for an entire series in the 1st-2nd rounds.

AVG D faced in the playoff alltime rankings.


1 Wilt Chamberlain -2.48 playoff games played 160

2 Kevin Garnett -2.02 playoff games played 133

3 Lebron James -1.8 playoff games played 260

4 Kobe Bryant -1.7 playoff games played 201

5 Shaquille O'Neal -1.51 playoff games played 199

6 Michael Jordan -1.11 playoff games played 178

7 Larry Bird -0.63 playoff games played 161

8 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -0.03 playoff games played 222

9 Tim Duncan 0.14 games playoff games played 252

10 Magic Johnson 0.38 games playoff games played 186

11 Bill Russell 0.98 playoff games played 167

12 Hakeem Olajuwon 1.05 playoff games played 140
Not sure what those numbers mean. Regardless you’d have a hard time explaining how CP3 is some god tier choker when he increases his scoring in the playoffs basically every year and in fact averages 2.3 more PPG in the playoffs while maintaining excellent efficiency while also claiming Wilt is some clutch when his scoring and efficient consistent declined.

[RRR3]

He played against the GOAT defence and the goat defender in the playoffs every year that is the ****ing reason why his scoring numbers dropped in the playoffs. .
But you told us Russell was helpless against Wilt the other day...

[coastalmarker99]

But you told us Russell was helpless against Wilt the other day...

Wilt and Russell played against each other in 8 playoff years which equalled to 49 playoff games.








Those same years, Wilt played 46 playoff games against other teams/centers. The results Wilt's P/G vs. others in PO in 8 years was 26.5 Wilt's P/G vs. Russell in PO in 8 years was 25.7

So Russell held Wilt to 0.8 fewer P/G

Rebounds: 24.6 (vs. others) vs. 28.4 (vs. Russ) Wilt had 3.8 MORE rebounds vs. Russ than vs.others

TS%: . 52.9 vs. .51.8 Russell held him to 1% lower shooting

Russell vs. Others & vs. Wilt in PO in 8 years Russell P/G: 16.5 (vs. others) 14.9 (vs. Wilt) Wilt held Russell to 1.6 fewer P/G

Russell R/G: 23.8 (vs. Others) vs. 24.7 (vs. Wilt) Russell had 0.9 more rebounds

Russell TS%: .508 (vs. others) vs .456 Russell had 5% lower shooting efficiency vs. Wilt

Wilt also averaged more FTA/FGA against Russ than against other centers in the PO: .52 vs .60

Russell averaged fewer FTA/FGA against Wilt: .56 vs .37

Wilt averaged 2.5 fouls per game against Russ and 2.5 vs. others. Russell averaged 3.3 PF/G vs. others and 4.1 vs. Wilt.

Overall, Wilt vs. Russell as % of Wilt vs. others: P/G 97% Rb/G 114% A/G 84% FG% 94% FT% 114% TS% 98% FTA/FGA 115% PF/G 101%

Except for assists--which are dependent on teammates making their shots--Wilt's numbers were basically the same against Russ Russ vs. Wilt as % Russ vs. others P/G 90% Rb/G 104% A/G 98% FG% 90% FT% 99% FTA/FGA67% TS% 90% PF/G 124%

Except for rebounds, Russell's numbers were worse in every category

Thus, Wilt held down Russell more than Russ held down Wilt in the PO in those 8 years.

[RRR3]

Wilt and Russell played against each other in 8 playoff years which equalled to 49 playoff games.








Those same years, Wilt played 46 playoff games against other teams/centers. The results Wilt's P/G vs. others in PO in 8 years was 26.5 Wilt's P/G vs. Russell in PO in 8 years was 25.7

So Russell held Wilt to 0.8 fewer P/G

Rebounds: 24.6 (vs. others) vs. 28.4 (vs. Russ) Wilt had 3.8 MORE rebounds vs. Russ than vs.others

TS%: . 52.9 vs. .51.8 Russell held him to 1% lower shooting

Russell vs. Others & vs. Wilt in PO in 8 years Russell P/G: 16.5 (vs. others) 14.9 (vs. Wilt) Wilt held Russell to 1.6 fewer P/G

Russell R/G: 23.8 (vs. Others) vs. 24.7 (vs. Wilt) Russell had 0.9 more rebounds

Russell TS%: .508 (vs. others) vs .456 Russell had 5% lower shooting efficiency vs. Wilt

Wilt also averaged more FTA/FGA against Russ than against other centers in the PO: .52 vs .60

Russell averaged fewer FTA/FGA against Wilt: .56 vs .37

Wilt averaged 2.5 fouls per game against Russ and 2.5 vs. others. Russell averaged 3.3 PF/G vs. others and 4.1 vs. Wilt.

Overall, Wilt vs. Russell as % of Wilt vs. others: P/G 97% Rb/G 114% A/G 84% FG% 94% FT% 114% TS% 98% FTA/FGA 115% PF/G 101%

Except for assists--which are dependent on teammates making their shots--Wilt's numbers were basically the same against Russ Russ vs. Wilt as % Russ vs. others P/G 90% Rb/G 104% A/G 98% FG% 90% FT% 99% FTA/FGA67% TS% 90% PF/G 124%

Except for rebounds, Russell's numbers were worse in every category

Thus, Wilt held down Russell more than Russ held down Wilt in the PO in those 8 years.
Russell wasn’t a scorer what’s this supposed to prove? I would hope a GOAT tier defender in Wilt could defend a role player level scorer lol. So it’s your contention that Wilt’s playoff dips are almost solely due to Russell? I don’t think that’s true but I’m too lazy and tired to do the math and verify it. Doesn’t seem likely to me.

[MadDog]

Again, how is Wilt's dropoff even relevant? His numbers and impact were better than Paul's, so he could afford a decline. Coastal is gonna respond no matter what since he's a Wilt guy. But everyone else sees through your "argument" lol. If you even wanna call it one.

[coastalmarker99]

In his scoring prime in the playoffs from 1959 to 1966



Wilt averaged 33 ppg, 27 rpg 10 BPG plus he shot way over the league in FG% and TS% (.50.5 in league's that shot an FG% of about .42.5 in that span) and handed out 4 APG, ...all while holding his opposing centers to a sub 40% FG%. In 52 playoff games, with 30 of them against Russell.



Even into his greatest season, 66-67, and covering 67 playoff games.




Wilt averaged 30 ppg, 27 rpg, 5 APG, shot .51.5 (in leagues that were at .427 in that span), with over 10 blocks per game, all while holding his mostly HOF counterparts to probably considerably less than 40% shooting from the field.



Maybe RR3 can give us an example of another all-time player who put up a 30-27-5 .51.5 FG series much less over the course of playoff 67 games.


Hell, he would be hard-pressed to give us an example of a single playoff game in which an all-time player did that.



Wilt had four 50+ point games in his playoff scoring prime from 1959 to 1966 three of which were in "must-win games.


He also had four entire post-seasons of 33.2, 34.7, 35.0, and 37.0 ppg in his scoring prime which covered four of his six playoff seasons in that span.






I hate this narrative that since Wilt didn't score 50 ppg or 40 PPG in the post-season, well, he was a choker.


As Wilt is the only player in NBA history to be held to that type of standard.

[coastalmarker99]

I can easily say to you RR3 that Wilt's postseason playmaking rebounding and shot-blocking impact alone and I am not even talking about his scoring shit all over Cp3's playoff impact.



As in Wilt's 29 playoff series throughout his career he was never outrebounded in a series by any other center and that is despite playing both Russell and a prime Kareem in a combined 10 playoff matchups.

[ArbitraryWater]

Shut the **** up at least Wilt has 2 rings and 2 finals MVP's to his name.

:roll::roll:

[guy]

Not sure how anyone can excuse him. As a CP3 fan, he was extremely frustrating to watch tonight. He was extremely passive for the first 3 quarters regardless of what the numbers say. Not sure why he’s letting the game come to him and trying to pace himself like this is game 52 of the regular season.

He must be hurt. If he plays even average in game 4 and the first 3 quarters of game 5, the Suns are champs right now.

[warriorfan]

Can’t really think of a time he shrunk in the playoffs tbh. Teams have had some meltdowns which I guess you can blame on him but he’s generally been the same player he is in the playoffs. Also just has bad luck. He probably wins today if Booker could pass. That said had to be tough to lose in front of Bron. It’s hilarious what an easy ring Bron would have had this year if he and AD stayed healthy lmao.

You are an autistic f.aggot

[Axe]

I can tell you are furious as deep-down you just know that Cp3 is going to choke again and throw away the best chance at winning a ring he is ever going to get.
The excuses are already being prepared atm and will be unleashed if an upcoming choke materializes in game 6.

[Axe]

If AD never went down, he would've still bitched about his shoulder. The moment AD is compromised, poof, Paul is magically healthy. Lol he's a professional con. Probably why he advertises insurance.
What do you mean? The small guy was momentarily injured earlier as far as i can remember.

[RRR3]

Not sure how anyone can excuse him. As a CP3 fan, he was extremely frustrating to watch tonight. He was extremely passive for the first 3 quarters regardless of what the numbers say. Not sure why he’s letting the game come to him and trying to pace himself like this is game 52 of the regular season.

He must be hurt. If he plays even average in game 4 and the first 3 quarters of game 5, the Suns are champs right now.
That’s legit just how he plays he averaged like 16 PPG this year lmao. He’s not a big scorer. He used to have the ability to be an elite scorer despite what the numbers might say but he’s 36 now

[DMAVS41]

Not sure how anyone can excuse him. As a CP3 fan, he was extremely frustrating to watch tonight. He was extremely passive for the first 3 quarters regardless of what the numbers say. Not sure why he’s letting the game come to him and trying to pace himself like this is game 52 of the regular season.

He must be hurt. If he plays even average in game 4 and the first 3 quarters of game 5, the Suns are champs right now.

That is how he has pretty much always played and it has been one of the reasons I've argued with his fans a bit.

[coastalmarker99]

Khris throughout game 5 was shooting over CP3 like he was doing a chair drill.

[coastalmarker99]

The Bucks went 11-15 from the field against CP3 in game 5 for 23 points, 5 assists allowed vs. 2 turnovers (one of which caused by CP).

[guy]

That’s legit just how he plays he averaged like 16 PPG this year lmao. He’s not a big scorer. He used to have the ability to be an elite scorer despite what the numbers might say but he’s 36 now

Maybe saying if he plays average is not the right way to phrase it.

As he’s gotten older and had more injuries he picks his spots and not that aggressive, sure. But this is clearly one of those “spots” where he should’ve taken a more aggressive approach. Like I said, it’s not game 52 of the regular season.. It’s game 4 and 5 of the NBA Finals. There’s nothing left after this. He shouldn’t step aside and let Devin Booker go through stretches where he’s literally taking every shot. He should be playing more like game 6 vs LAC / game 1 vs MIL. He literally didn’t take ANY free throws the last 2 games. Not 1. Again, the only reason I can think of is he’s hurt.

[guy]

That is how he has pretty much always played and it has been one of the reasons I've argued with his fans a bit.

Clearly he has his flaws and this seems to be an example of that.

[DMAVS41]

Maybe saying if he plays average is not the right way to phrase it.

As he’s gotten older and had more injuries he picks his spots and not that aggressive, sure. But this is clearly one of those “spots” where he should’ve taken a more aggressive approach. Like I said, it’s not game 52 of the regular season.. It’s game 4 and 5 of the NBA Finals. There’s nothing left after this. He shouldn’t step aside and let Devin Booker go through stretches where he’s literally taking every shot. He should be playing more like game 6 vs LAC / game 1 vs MIL. He literally didn’t take ANY free throws the last 2 games. Not 1. Again, the only reason I can think of is he’s hurt.

Exactly.

My point was though that I think that was a fair criticism of him throughout his career. Being highly efficient and taking care of the ball are really important and part of what makes him so great. However, lacking that..."I'm going to drop 35 plus unless you double and I'm going to get your entire team in foul trouble" gear...is a weakness...especially for ball dominant players that don't make a huge impact off-ball. Maybe he could have done it more often and chose not to...I'm not sure given how he seems to wear down physically as that takes a lot of effort.

His fans are just a bit funny...they want to put him in a class of the best of the best to ever play...but don't think he should have to perform or accomplish the way those guys did.

I get it to an extent, but I think they've always had blinders on. They live in a world where they think a short point guard that wears down physically and has lacked a takeover ability compared to the best ever....can be deemed a "near flawless" basketball player.

Having said all that...CP3 is getting way too much hate right now. Overall in this series he's been quite good...and his play this year given his age and years in the league...has been brilliant. In addition, his leadership seems to have had a positive impact with the Suns...which is nice to see because I'm not sure he was a great teammate in the past.

I really hope he plays great and the Suns come back, but I fear they lost their chance in game 4...which sucks because he was terrible and all he had to do was play average and they'd be up 3-1 and almost would for sure have won the title.

[Bronbron23]

Name
Playoffs Career Averages for the players in questioning

Chris P:
21/8/5/2 with 2.6 TO and shooting splits of 48/37/85
Magic J:
20/12/8/2 with 3.7 TO and shooting splits of 51/24/83
Isiah T:
20/9/5/2 with 3.3 TO and shooting splits of 44/35/77
John S:
13/10/3/2 with 2.8 TO and shooting splits of 47/33/81

As well can see among these all timers

Chris is a leader in: Points, lowest TO, 3P%, and FT%
Magic is the leader in: Assists, Rebounds, FG% (worst 3P%)
Isiah is the leader in: No categories
John is the leader in: No categories

There's alot more to the game than stats man. Plus chris paul is the original ball dominator. He's gonna get crazy stats. I've always loved the way chris paul competes but he holds the ball way to long. Playing with him would be frustrating.

[MadDog]

Exactly.

My point was though that I think that was a fair criticism of him throughout his career. Being highly efficient and taking care of the ball are really important and part of what makes him so great. However, lacking that..."I'm going to drop 35 plus unless you double and I'm going to get your entire team in foul trouble" gear...is a weakness...especially for ball dominant players that don't make a huge impact off-ball. Maybe he could have done it more often and chose not to...I'm not sure given how he seems to wear down physically as that takes a lot of effort.

His fans are just a bit funny...they want to put him in a class of the best of the best to ever play...but don't think he should have to perform or accomplish the way those guys did.

I get it to an extent, but I think they've always had blinders on. They live in a world where they think a short point guard that wears down physically and has lacked a takeover ability compared to the best ever....can be deemed a "near flawless" basketball player.

Having said all that...CP3 is getting way too much hate right now. Overall in this series he's been quite good...and his play this year given his age and years in the league...has been brilliant. In addition, his leadership seems to have had a positive impact with the Suns...which is nice to see because I'm not sure he was a great teammate in the past.

I really hope he plays great and the Suns come back, but I fear they lost their chance in game 4...which sucks because he was terrible and all he had to do was play average and they'd be up 3-1 and almost would for sure have won the title.

Fair post and mostly agree here. But, the cockiness from Paul fans is what I find crazy. They swear he's on a tier above someone like Isiah. Who proved his worth in back-to-back finals. Isiah arguably had a finals better than ANY series Paul has had. Plus multiple playoff runs on par and arguably better. Depending on what you value. I don't care that someone has Paul>Isiah. I disagree with it, but I'm fine with that opinion. The reasoning is usually hypocritical though.

[DMAVS41]

Fair post and mostly agree here. But, the cockiness from Paul fans is what I find crazy. They swear he's on a tier above someone like Isiah. Who proved his worth in back-to-back finals. Isiah arguably had a finals better than ANY series Paul has had. Plus multiple playoff runs on par and arguably better. Depending on what you value. I don't care that someone has Paul>Isiah. I disagree with it, but I'm fine with that opinion. The reasoning is usually hypocritical though.

I agree.

I personally think Paul is better than IT, but it is obviously very close and this playoff run actually makes it closer for me because Paul has once again struggled physically. I'll still go with Paul, but people already forget he was hurt in round 1 and it was straight up luck he made round 2...had nothing to do with his play.