Isiah Lord Thomas III >>>>> Christina "Choke-Flop" Paulette

[ClipperRevival]

I don't ever want to hear them mentioned in the same sentence again, I don't care about PER or other advanced metrics. One was a killer who took down Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers and MJ's Bulls as "the man" and always brought it mentally and never took a step back against anyone (check 40 stitches via Karl Malone) and the other shrinks when it matters most.

https://media.tenor.com/images/01168c67c21f1dc4d26b795f487ccb60/tenor.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

Isiah ain't winning any titles in CP3's place though

[Proctor]

Not better than Nash or Kidd either. I don't give a **** what the stats do or don't say.

[RRR3]

Isiah ain't winning any titles in CP3's place though
He can’t process that obvious fact, nor can he process the fact that CP3 wins in 18 if he didn’t get hurt. He literally just rates players by rangs because he can’t think crucially.

[RRR3]

Not better than Nash or Kidd either. I don't give a **** what the stats do or don't say.
Kidd lmao

[HBK_Kliq_2]

CP3 constantly got cucked out by Curry\Klay\Dray

so you have to think he would also get cucked by Isiah\Dumars\Laimbeer

Especially considering Isiah is a much much bigger alpha then Curry in the playoffs

[Proctor]

He can’t process that obvious fact, nor can he process the fact that CP3 wins in 18 if he didn’t get hurt. He literally just rates players by rangs because he can’t think crucially.
That's not thinking crucially, that's thinking hypothetically. It did not happen. Make believe doesn't count for shit. And like it or not, Chris Small's inability to stay healthy has historically been a detriment to his teams.

[ClipperRevival]

Isiah ain't winning any titles in CP3's place though

You for real bro. CP Small had sh*t ton of help in his Clipper days. I saw his choking up close all those years. He had PEAK Blake, DJ and Reddick and great role players like Collison, Barnes, Bledsoe, etc.

Those were arguably better than the teammates he had in Detroit.

[ClipperRevival]

Kids want to talk about scoring and say CP3 > Isiah?

Did CP3 ever score 25 points in a quarter in a finals game on one leg?

Or score 16 points in 90 seconds in a playoff game?

FACT is, Isiah was a great scorer and simply held back his scoring to WIN.

[SouBeachTalents]

You for real bro. CP Small had sh*t ton of help in his Clipper days. I saw his choking up close all those years. He had PEAK Blake, DJ and Reddick and great role players like Collison, Barnes, Bledsoe, etc.

Those were arguably better than the teammates he had in Detroit.
You really think Isiah with Blake is beating some combo of Spurs/Thunder/Warriors then LeBron :lol Imo CP3's much more likely to win with the Bad Boys than Isiah is with any of CP3's teams

[dazzer87]

:lol

[Proctor]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6yoALMXIAIsxTC?format=jpg&name=medium

[RRR3]

You really think Isiah with Blake is beating some combo of Spurs/Thunder/Warriors then LeBron :lol Imo CP3's much more likely to win with the Bad Boys than Isiah is with any of CP3's teams
He overrates the shit out of anyone MJ played, he doesn’t even actually like Isiah. This is all about MJ.

[ClipperRevival]

You really think Isiah with Blake is beating some combo of Spurs/Thunder/Warriors then LeBron :lol Imo CP3's much more likely to win with the Bad Boys than Isiah is with any of CP3's teams

2014 they should've closed out OKC but CP3 had the collapse of all collapses in game 5.

Blake was UNREAL at his peak and ditto for DJ. And I know YOU know this too. They were athletic freaks and impacted the game. Peak Reddick. Great bench. That's enough help.

The 2014 Spurs weren't that special. They only looked great because they weren't defended. Clips had the better record over Spurs too.

[hold this L]

Only player to have 4 2-0 leads and lose the playoff series in NBA history.

[RRR3]

That's not thinking crucially, that's thinking hypothetically. It did not happen. Make believe doesn't count for shit. And like it or not, Chris Small's inability to stay healthy has historically been a detriment to his teams.
Yeah it has been but I’m not sure why we’re blaming him for being injury prone. Is it T-Mac and Yao Ming’s fault they always got injured too? Oden? Bill Walton? Embiid? Some players are just frail, and CP3 happens to be one of them unfortunately for him.

[MadDog]

Isiah ain't winning any titles in CP3's place though

He's playing better than Paul did in this series. More importantly, Zeke would stay healthy (2018). He would improve Paul's teams.

[Proctor]

Yeah it has been but I’m not sure why we’re blaming him for being injury prone. Is it T-Mac and Yao Ming’s fault they always got injured too? Oden? Bill Walton? Embiid? Some players are just frail, and CP3 happens to be one of them unfortunately for him.
The difference is he isn't missing seasons or suffering devastating, career altering injuries. It's always nagging sissy injuries at the absolute worst times in the postseason.

That's to say nothing of his masquerade where he's "hurt" more if his team is losing, and suddenly "spry" and "rejuvenated" when they're winning.

[RRR3]

He's playing better than Paul did in this series. More importantly, Zeke would stay healthy. Same thing in 2018.
36 year old Isiah is not playing better in this series lol. He was long retired by that point.

[RRR3]

The difference is he isn't missing seasons or suffering devastating, career altering injuries. It's always nagging sissy injuries at the absolute worst times in the postseason.

That's to say nothing of his masquerade where he's "hurt" more if his team is losing, and suddenly "spry" and "rejuvenated" when they're winning.
You’re just sounding biased here cuz you don’t like him. T-Mac and Yao frequently got hurt at bad times too.

[MadDog]

36 year old Isiah is not playing better in this series lol. He was long retired by that point.

That's not what the guy I quoted said. But Isiah would be better in this era, and plays longer too. Today there is greater nutrition and training advancements.

[ClipperRevival]

What I have observed with CP3 in clutch situations is that he choses to defer. So he becomes passive. It's like he decides he doesn't want to have anything to do with the outcome of the game. So he picks and chooses his spots. So his stats might look good on paper but in reality, he hurts his teams because HE should be trying to score more instead of deferring to lesser players. They have a definition for that, it's called CHOKING.

He was NEVER a killer. Just never had that mentality to get after his opponents and try to put them in their place like a real alpha. Isiah Thomas was a REAL alpha. Ask any old school cat that saw him play, they'll say the same.

[ClipperRevival]

Only player to have 4 2-0 leads and lose the playoff series in NBA history.

Not a coincidence folks. As his team's best player, it's your job to close the deal if things get out of hand offensively. CP0 always relaxed his offense when it was needed most.

[RRR3]

What I have observed with CP3 in clutch situations is that he choses to defer. So he becomes passive. It's like he decides he doesn't want to have anything to do with the outcome of the game. So he picks and chooses his spots. So his stats might look good on paper but in reality, he hurts his teams because HE should be trying to score more instead of deferring to lesser players. They have a definition for that, it's called CHOKING.

He was NEVER a killer. Just never had that mentality to get after his opponents and try to put them in their place like a real alpha. Isiah Thomas was a REAL alpha. Ask any old school cat that saw him play, they'll say the same.
He never has been an aggressive scorer lol that’s just how he plays. You can say he should shoot more in general like Dmavs does but it’s not choking when you just play the way you usually do. You get your basketball insights from Skip Bayless lol. Suns weren’t even a real finals team they were lucky to be there.

[ClipperRevival]

He never has been an aggressive scorer lol that’s just how he plays. You can say he should shoot more in general like Dmavs does but it’s not choking when you just play the way you usually do. You get your basketball insights from Skip Bayless lol. Suns weren’t even a real finals team they were lucky to be there.

Then what's the point of being a good scorer if you can't turn it on when it's needed? HUH? LOL. You play to win the game, not put up efficient stats!

https://media.tenor.com/images/2ef89f88f99998577d290513b90ad694/tenor.gif

[ZenMaster7210]

I don't ever want to hear them mentioned in the same sentence again, I don't care about PER or other advanced metrics. One was a killer who took down Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers and MJ's Bulls as "the man" and always brought it mentally and never took a step back against anyone (check 40 stitches via Karl Malone) and the other shrinks when it matters most.

https://media.tenor.com/images/01168c67c21f1dc4d26b795f487ccb60/tenor.gif

:applause:

[Proctor]

He never has been an aggressive scorer lol that’s just how he plays. You can say he should shoot more in general like Dmavs does but it’s not choking when you just play the way you usually do. You get your basketball insights from Skip Bayless lol. Suns weren’t even a real finals team they were lucky to be there.
Exactly - thanks for saying it yourself.

It's the main thing that holds him back from being the player you think he is. He's a great player but when it's needed, he abandons what he does best and shrinks or outright disappears.

There is no reason a player of his shooting ability and offensive talent should ever fade into the background and only take over from time to time. Not at any age, even 36. CP0 apologists sit there and blow their loads when he does decide to be assertive and reason to themselves that he could do it any time he wants to. He can. He just doesn't.

[RRR3]

Exactly - thanks for saying it yourself.

It's the main thing that holds him back from being the player you think he is. He's a great player but when it's needed, he abandons what he does best and shrinks or outright disappears.

There is no reason a player of his shooting ability and offensive talent should ever fade into the background and only take over from time to time. Not at any age, even 36. CP0 apologists sit there and blow their loads when he does decide to be assertive and reason to themselves that he could do it any time he wants to. He can. He just doesn't.
Well he literally always has been pass first. I’ve been saying he should have scored 25 PPG for years. Idk why he plays like this, but it’s not choking if you always do it lol. Also he scored about as much as he’s capable of at this point though. He can barely get any separation, he literally can only score through contested jumpers at his current age he’s so slow. That’s not a good way to score a lot if you’re as short as he is. If you get 26 from current CP3 you should be glad. He’s hardly what I’d call a great scorer now. In his prime though, absolutely he should and could have put up 25 per game. Now? He actually has trouble scoring. He’s extremely in athletic for his position at this point and he’s also undersized. Not a good combo. Booker is clearly a better option for points.

[ClipperRevival]

Exactly - thanks for saying it yourself.

It's the main thing that holds him back from being the player you think he is. He's a great player but when it's needed, he abandons what he does best and shrinks or outright disappears.

There is no reason a player of his shooting ability and offensive talent should ever fade into the background and only take over from time to time. Not at any age, even 36. CP0 apologists sit there and blow their loads when he does decide to be assertive and reason to themselves that he could do it any time he wants to. He can. He just doesn't.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/fc7c5f7bcde56027cfeb6fa44b7ff240/tenor.gif?itemid=8281757

[RRR3]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/fc7c5f7bcde56027cfeb6fa44b7ff240/tenor.gif?itemid=8281757
Nah it’s unfair to expect current CP3 to dominate scoring. I’m not sure what you guys are watching but almost every basket he scores is difficult when the game tightens up lol. He almost never gets easy buckets anymore. Booker is the first option for a reason.

[ClipperRevival]

Nah it’s unfair to expect current CP3 to dominate scoring. I’m not sure what you guys are watching but every basket he scores is difficult lol. He almost never gets easy buckets anymore.

He didn't do it in his prime either babyboi. That's what his detractors are saying. We know how good you are. You can literally get to any spot on the court with your dribble and possess a Godly midrange game. He should've turned on that offensive switch more but didn't. That's in him.

https://media.tenor.com/images/cf24af442feb6c91d55e816abb6692ed/tenor.gif

[Proctor]

Well he literally always has been pass first. I’ve been saying he should have scored 25 PPG for years. Idk why he plays like this, but it’s not choking if you always do it lol. Also he scored about as much as he’s capable of at this point though. He can barely get any separation, he literally can only score through contested jumpers at his current age he’s so slow. That’s not a good way to score a lot if you’re as short as he is. If you get 26 from current CP3 you should be glad. He’s hardly what I’d call a great scorer now. In his prime though, absolutely he should and could have put up 25 per game. Now? He actually has trouble scoring. He’s extremely in athletic for his position at this point and he’s also undersized. Not a good combo. Booker is clearly a better option for points.

He's not a choker on account of not scoring enough. His reluctance to be aggressive offensively is just another bullet on the list. He's a choker because he has a proven track record of costly injuries or poor decision making (when to pass, when to look to score, when to hold onto the damn ball) when it counts most.

I'll take JVG's word on it. He said after a great score by Paul that he could get that shot every single time. He had it going offensively. Booker did not. And yet Paul did not become noticeably more aggressive at any point, and certainly not late.

[RRR3]

He's not a choker because he doesn't score enough. His reluctance to be aggressive offensively is just another bullet on the list. He's a choker because he has a proven track record of costly injuries or poor decision making (when to pass, when to look to score, when to hold onto the damn ball) when it counts most.
Injuries make you a choker now lol. Not even hiding your bias.

[RRR3]

He didn't do it in his prime either babyboi. That's what his detractors are saying. We know how good you are. You can literally get to any spot on the court with your dribble and possess a Godly midrange game. He should've turned on that offensive switch more but didn't. That's in him.

https://media.tenor.com/images/cf24af442feb6c91d55e816abb6692ed/tenor.gif
He actually scored about 21-22 Ppg in the playoffs in his prime.

[Proctor]

Injuries make you a choker now lol. Not even hiding your bias.
When your sissy injuries are a clear detriment to your team, and on top of that suddenly disappear when Anthony Davis goes down....and a player you're historically compared to in the pool of all time great point guards scored 25 in a quarter on one leg in a Finals game....lmao

[RRR3]

When your sissy injuries are a clear detriment to your team, and on top of that suddenly disappear when Anthony Davis goes down....and a player you're historically compared to in the pool of all time great point guards scored 25 in a quarter on one leg in a Finals game....lmao
You are blaming a player for getting injured lmao. At least try to be rational man. I guess AD choked this year huh?

[ClipperRevival]

He actually scored about 21-22 Ppg in the playoffs in his prime.

Isiah career playoff PPG: 20.4
CP3 career playoff PPG: 20.6

CP3 peaked at 25.5 PPG for his career high in a playoff series THIS year against Denvet at 35. So you're theory is WRONG. He's always been a passive scorer when it was needed. That's why he gave up 4 series up 2-0. Couldn't stop the bleeding.

Isiah peaked at 27.6 PPG for his career high in a playoff series in the 1990 Finals via FMVP on 54%, 5.2 RPG, and 7.0 APG.

[RRR3]

Isiah career playoff PPG: 20.4
CP3 career playoff PPG: 20.6

CP3 peaked at 25.5 PPGfor his career high in a playoff series THIS year against Denvet at 35. So you're theory is WRONG. He's always been a passive scorer when it was needed. That's why he gave up 4 series up 2-0. Couldn't stop the bleeding.

Isiah peaked at 27.6 PPGfor his career high in a playoff series in the 1990 Finals via FMVP on 54%, 5.2 RPG, and 7.0 APG.
Damn he’s been in his prime his entire time in the playoffs huh? Again you have a Skip Bayless level analysis. I don’t care what you think. You literally don’t understand critical thinking. Proctor just hates CP3 I know he’s not actually an idiot. You on the other hand are braindead.

[ClipperRevival]

Damn he’s been in his prime his entire time in the playoffs huh? Again you have a Skip Bayless level analysis. I don’t care what you think. You literally don’t understand critical thinking. Proctor just hates CP3 I know he’s not actually an idiot. You on the other hand are braindead.

It's just hard to have an objective discussion with anyone who starts to degrade the other person. I'm out bro.

[Proctor]

You are blaming a player for getting injured lmao. At least try to be rational man. I guess AD choked this year huh?
You're not really refuting much of what me or anyone else in this thread is saying about Paul. You are deflecting again and again.

Paul suited up and played. His ridiculous knack for picking up petty injuries (or in the case of this year, an injury and an illness) is too large of a sample size to ignore. It is not something that sabotaged one year and that was it. This is a repeating pattern in his career, and his fanboys love to play the alternate reality game and speculate about what COULD have happened if not for the one thing...and that "one thing" happens every year.

But again, you're neglecting the most important part of the injury discussion and that is that it damn well appeared exaggerated and suddenly disappeared when the Lakers became more doomed than the Suns. Sorry, I'm not extending Paul any benefit of the doubt for imagined injuries in the next round of coulda/woulda/shoulda.

You can hide behind the excuses of "hate" and "bias" all you want...none of those things have anything to do with it. Your next step will be throwing out the word "Nazi."

[RRR3]

You're not really refuting much of what me or anyone else in this thread is saying about Paul.

Paul suited up and played. His ridiculous knack for picking up petty injuries (or in the case of this year, an injury and an illness) is too large of a sample size to ignore. It is not something that sabotaged one year and that was it. This is a repeating pattern in his career, and his fanboys love to play the alternate reality game and speculate about what COULD have happened if not for the one thing...and that "one thing" happens every year.

But again, you're neglecting the most important part of the injury discussion and that is that it damn well appeared exaggerated and suddenly disappeared when the Lakers became more doomed than the Suns. Sorry, I'm not extending Paul any benefit of the doubt for imagined injuries in the next round of coulda/woulda/shoulda.

You can hide behind the excuses of "hate" and "bias" all you want...none of those things have anything to do with it.
I don’t think there’s any year he would have won if healthy besides 2018, so not sure where the “every year” stuff comes from. He certainly loses first round this year if Lakers were healthy I’ve literally said that lol. Everyone besides Hamtaro and the stupidest LeBron haters knows that.

[RRR3]

It's just hard to have an objective discussion with anyone who starts to degrade the other person. I'm out bro.
You are literally never objective.

[Proctor]

I don’t think there’s any year he would have won if healthy besides 2018, so not sure where the “every year” stuff comes from. He certainly loses first round this year if Lakers were healthy I’ve literally said that lol. Everyone besides Hamtaro and the stupidest LeBron haters knows that.
"Every year" meaning it is an annual occurrence for Paul to do something to greatly endanger or outright discard his teams chances of winning in the playoffs...turnovers, injuries, lack of offensive aggression, or simply doing the opposite of what is actually needed in crunch time. Yet he gets extended the benefit of the doubt and deemed the ultimate floor general or winner, so on and so forth, and none of those things have actually proven to be true when it matters.

People love an underdog and his ridiculous resume of "almost" is so well documented you have reporters asking Booker at the podium if he feels sorry for Chris Paul. The apologists go to lengths for him that they have never gone for anyone else.

He is a GREAT, great "floor raiser" in the regular season akin to Lebron. He puts any team in the mix....but once they're there, he plays everything safe and casual.

[RRR3]

"Every year" meaning it is an annual occurrence for Paul to do something to greatly endanger or outright discard his teams chances of winning in the playoffs...turnovers, injuries, lack of offensive aggression, or simply doing the opposite of what is actually needed in crunch time. Yet he gets extended the benefit of the doubt and deemed the ultimate floor general or winner, so on and so forth, and none of those things have actually proven to be true when it matters.

People love an underdog and his ridiculous resume of "almost" is so well documented you have reporters asking Booker at the podium if he feels sorry for Chris Paul. The apologists go to lengths for him that they have never gone for anyone else.
Again, you just hate CP3. This is like arguing whether LeBron is great with 3ball (obviously you’re not that bad it’s just an example). It’s not always a players fault when their team loses, hate to break it to you. If you think he was the reason they lost tonight and not Booker I question your basketball IQ.

[warriorfan]

RRR3 stfu you autistic dipshit

[Proctor]

Again, you just hate CP3. This is like arguing whether LeBron is great with 3ball (obviously you’re not that bad it’s just an example). It’s not always a players fault when their team loses, hate to break it to you. If you think he was the reason they lost tonight and not Booker I question your basketball IQ.
:lol :facepalm

Never made any implication that Paul was the reason they lost tonight specifically. But he certainly had crucial mistakes that cost the Suns game(s) in the series. Just because he scored above 20 in games doesn't mean he had a great game when he disappears for 70% of it, blows his load and puts on a brief show, then fades back into the background. CP0 apologists rely so heavily on stats. Same reason they make threads and jizz themselves when he has 15 assists and 0 turnovers. Yet, there were numerous instances where they played better and smarter with Payne on the floor.

If you are the awe inspiring, incredible floor general you're proclaimed to be...who always "calms the troops" and makes the right play...then you can't go out there late in many of your Finals games and do the opposite of what the situation calls for. All this grating talk about how this might be Paul's only Finals appearance and how he's locked in and ready to seize the moment, then he goes out there and plays passively. Overdribbling, passing in crowds, lack of hunger to score. :facepalm

He is never out there adding notches to his resume because he is always injured or otherwise blowing it. That's my point. He gets well deserved credit for making his teams so much better in the regular season, but that's where the credit I give him stops.

[RRR3]

:lol :facepalm

Never made any implication that Paul was the reason they lost tonight specifically. But he certainly had crucial mistakes that cost the Suns game(s) in the series. Just because he scored above 20 in games doesn't mean he had a great game when he disappears for 70% of it, blows his load and puts on a brief show, then fades back into the background. CP0 apologists rely so heavily on stats. Same reason they make threads and jizz themselves when he has 15 assists and 0 turnovers. Yet, there were numerous instances where they played better and smarter with Payne on the floor.

If you are the awe inspiring, incredible floor general you're proclaimed to be...who always "calms the troops" and makes the right play...then you can't go out there late in many of your Finals games and do the opposite of what the situation calls for. All this grating talk about how this might be Paul's only Finals appearance and how he's locked in and ready to seize the moment, then he goes out there and plays passively. Overdribbling, passing in crowds, lack of hunger to score. :facepalm
He had some bad moments but I’d say he played a solid series overall. They needed an all time great series from him though. But he’s not that great anymore, he’s still a star but is he even top 20 in the league rn?

[BigShotBob]

Lol...as if CP3 is winning anything in Zeke's position. Pure comedy.

Yea, give CP3 Joe Dumars, Vinnie Johnson, and Bill Laimbeer, I'm sure he'll beat the Celtics and prime/peak athletic MJ :oldlol:

He would have lost to Dominique or Bernard King playing the way that he plays now.

[RRR3]

Lol...as if CP3 is winning anything in Zeke's position. Pure comedy.

Yea, give CP3 Joe Dumars, Vinnie Johnson, and Bill Laimbeer, I'm sure he'll beat the Celtics and prime/peak athletic MJ :oldlol:

He would have lost to Dominique or Bernard King playing the way that he plays now.
Those teams didn’t win because of offense. And CP3 is >> zeke at defense. Weird take.

[Proctor]

He had some bad moments but I’d generally say he played a solid series. They needed an all time great series from him though. But he’s not that great anymore, he’s still a star but is he even top 20 in the league rn?
No, they really didn't. They needed a not 10 points and 5 turnover Game 4 and for him to be better in a way that would get his team at least one more game. One. I don't think anyone thinks Milwaukee would win a Game 7 in Phoenix.

His team lost 4 in a row after a 2-0 lead....for the fourth time in his career.

[BigShotBob]

Those teams didn’t win because of offense. And CP3 is >> zeke at defense. Weird take.

Aren't you like 20 years old? How would you know? You've literally never seen them play. It wasn't just defense.

Sure. CP3 is a better defender and he's guarding MJ, Magic, and Dennis Johnson. Weird take.

I tire of debating with kids that weren't even alive to see players play.

Go watch the games.

[RRR3]

No, they really didn't. They needed a not 10 points and 5 turnover Game 4 and for him to be better in a way that would get his team at least one more game. One. I don't think anyone thinks Milwaukee would win a Game 7 in Phoenix.

His team lost 4 in a row after a 2-0 lead....for the fourth time in his career.
He played fine in every game but one, and you’re blaming him lol. Booker was hideously bad tonight and crickets from you.

[RRR3]

Aren't you like 20 years old? How would you know? You've literally never seen them play. It wasn't just defense.

Sure. CP3 is a better defender and he's guarding MJ, Magic, and Dennis Johnson. Weird take.

I tire of debating with kids that weren't even alive to see players play.

Go watch the games.
If I was 20, I would have joined this board when I was 10.

[Lebron23]

Op is such an annoying troll. It won't surprise me if he is also 3ball.

[Proctor]

He played fine in every game but one, and you’re blaming him lol. Booker was hideously bad tonight and crickets from you.
I have posted ad nauseam about how garbage Booker is.

Nice of you to dismiss Paul's hideously bad performance, but criticize Booker for his tonight, coming off of 42 and 40 in the two games prior. It works both ways.

Every post from you in the game thread was Booker, Booker, Schnooker, Looker, Tooker, Booker.

He and Paul are the cuck bros...one is too afraid to look inefficient on the box score and the other never met a shot he didn't like.

[tanibanana]

I don’t get why there is a need for a thread to validate Isiah>CP3.
All knowledgable fans have Zeke over CP3.
A much better argument is CP3-Nash-Frazier-Stockton.

Basically this is the tier of PG:
Tier-1: Magic, Curry, Big-O, Zeke, Cousy
Tier-2: Stockton, CP3, Nash, Frazier, Kidd

[ClipperRevival]

Aren't you like 20 years old? How would you know? You've literally never seen them play. It wasn't just defense.

Sure. CP3 is a better defender and he's guarding MJ, Magic, and Dennis Johnson. Weird take.

I tire of debating with kids that weren't even alive to see players play.

Go watch the games.

Can't blame the kids. They never saw Isiah so all they really have is bball reference. If you compare just that, CP3 looks much superior. But those that saw Isiah play know he was much more than his stat sheet. A true KILLER, the legit alpha on those Bad Boy teams and led by example by never taking a step back.

[ClipperRevival]

If I was 20, I would have joined this board when I was 10.

So you're 30 and still don't know sh*t about bball? That would make it worse.

[ImKobe]

I don’t get why there is a need for a thread to validate Isiah>CP3.
All knowledgable fans have Zeke over CP3.
A much better argument is CP3-Nash-Frazier-Stockton.

Basically this is the tier of PG:
Tier-1: Magic, Curry, Big-O, Zeke, Cousy
Tier-2: Stockton, CP3, Nash, Frazier, Kidd

Frazier won multiple rings so he has to be above CP0 tbh.

[1987_Lakers]

Pistons had a 3-2 series lead against the Lakers in '88 with Isiah shooting...

game 1: 6 of 16
game 2: 5 of 14
game 3: 10 of 21
game 4: 2 of 7
game 5: 4 of 13

:oldlol:

CP3 on those bay boy pistons teams would have 3 peated.

[tontoz]

I don't ever want to hear them mentioned in the same sentence again, I don't care about PER or other advanced metrics. One was a killer who took down Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers and MJ's Bulls as "the man" and always brought it mentally and never took a step back against anyone (check 40 stitches via Karl Malone) and the other shrinks when it matters most.

https://media.tenor.com/images/01168c67c21f1dc4d26b795f487ccb60/tenor.gif

:roll:


Isiah didn't guard any of the other big time stars. He had a whole team of elite defenders (including DPOY Rodman and 1st Team All-NBA defense Dumars) to defend the other teams stars while he guarded John Paxon.

What makes him "the man", his 18 ppg on weak efficiency? F outta here with this nonsense.

BTW Paul averaged 22/8 in the Finals with a TS of 62% against an elite defense.

[jayfan]

CP3 doesn't have it in him. Simple as that.


.

[ImKobe]

Pistons had a 3-2 series lead against the Lakers in '88 with Isiah shooting...

game 1: 6 of 16
game 2: 5 of 14
game 3: 10 of 21
game 4: 2 of 7
game 5: 4 of 13

:oldlol:

CP3 on those bay boy pistons teams would have 3 peated.

He had a better Finals than CP0, even with his ankle injury and the shooting numbers you posted. Poor CP0 :( .

[FKAri]

I hate this conflating of who's better vs who had the better career. CP3's career isn't great but his ability is up there with anyone at his size.

[ClipperRevival]

:roll:


Isiah didn't guard any of the other big time stars. He had a whole team of elite defenders (including DPOY Rodman and 1st Team All-NBA defense Dumars) to defend the other teams stars while he guarded John Paxon.

What makes him "the man", his 18 ppg on weak efficiency? F outta here with this nonsense.

Oh lookee, our resident Isiah hater chimes in.:yaohappy:

*25 points in one quarter in the NBA finals in one of the most legendary performances ever
*16 points in 90 seconds against the Knicks in the playoffs
*27.6 PPG in the 1990 Finals via FMVP performance on 54%

https://media.tenor.com/images/ec3be9b51dd923583bffba75fb53acbf/tenor.gif

[1987_Lakers]

:roll:


Isiah didn't guard any of the other big time stars. He had a whole team of elite defenders (including DPOY Rodman and 1st Team All-NBA defense Dumars) to defend the other teams stars while he guarded John Paxon.

What makes him "the man", his 18 ppg on weak efficiency? F outta here with this nonsense.

Yea, imagine thinking Isiah wins in CP3's shoes with the Miami Big 3 or the KD-Curry Warriors in this league.

Isiah needed Magic Johnson to get injured to get his first title, then he beat a un-remarkable portland team in 1990, and the Pistons were the most stacked team in the league at the time, CP3 has never played with the most talented team in the league.

Dumars (HOF)
Laimbeer (All-Star level)
Vinnie Johnson (6MOY level)
Rodman (DPOY level)
Dantley/Aguirre (All-Star level)
Mahorn (18 year career, over 1100 games played)

The Pistons depth was insane, by '88 they were miles ahead of the Celtics in terms of depth, and you saw how good they were that year as proven by their 3-2 lead on the Lakers despite Isiah playing like trash.

[tontoz]

Oh lookee, our resident Isiah hater chimes in.:yaohappy:

*25 points in one quarter in the NBA finals in one of the most legendary performances ever
*16 points in 90 seconds against the Knicks in the playoffs
*27.6 PPG in the 1990 Finals via FMVP performance on 54%

https://media.tenor.com/images/ec3be9b51dd923583bffba75fb53acbf/tenor.gif


If i want to cherry pick i can make Josh Smith look like a great 3 pt shooter.

Who won FMVP on their first title? Who guarded Jordan? Who actually made the All-NBA team during their title runs?

[ClipperRevival]

Isiah's 1990 Finals MVP stats:

27.6 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 7.0 APG, .542% FG, .688% 3PT (11/16)

CP0 can only DREAM of having a finals like that where he is FMVP.

[1987_Lakers]

He had a better Finals than CP0, even with his ankle injury and the shooting numbers you posted. Poor CP0 :( .

1988 Isiah at age 26 in the Finals: 20/4/9 on 52 TS%
2021 CP3 at age 36 in the Finals: 22/3/8 on 62 TS%

Prime Isiah got outplayed by a 36 year old in the Finals, lmfao.

[ClipperRevival]

If i want to cherry pick i can make Josh Smith look like a great 3 pt shooter.

Who won FMVP on their first title? Who guarded Jordan? Who actually made the All-NBA team during their title runs?

So are you saying Isiah wasn't clearly "the man" on those Pistons? If so, we done homey.

[tontoz]

So are you saying Isiah wasn't clearly "the man" on those Pistons? If so, we done homey.


He wasn't even their best guard. :roll:

[ClipperRevival]

Yea, imagine thinking Isiah wins in CP3's shoes with the Miami Big 3 or the KD-Curry Warriors in this league.

Isiah needed Magic Johnson to get injured to get his first title, then he beat a un-remarkable portland team in 1990, and the Pistons were the most stacked team in the league at the time, CP3 has never played with the most talented team in the league.

Dumars (HOF)
Laimbeer (All-Star level)
Vinnie Johnson (6MOY level)
Rodman (DPOY level)
Dantley/Aguirre (All-Star level)
Mahorn (18 year career, over 1100 games played)

The Pistons depth was insane, by '88 they were miles ahead of the Celtics in terms of depth, and you saw how good they were that year as proven by their 3-2 lead on the Lakers despite Isiah playing like trash.

Go back to basketball reference babyboi.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/949f42b13894d3865614b1e08d7177db/tenor.gif?itemid=5245718

[tontoz]

1988 Isiah at age 26 in the Finals: 20/4/9 on 52 TS%
2021 CP3 at age 36 in the Finals: 22/3/8 on 62 TS%

Prime Isiah got outplayed by a 36 year old in the Finals, lmfao.

:roll:

[warriorfan]

I have posted ad nauseam about how garbage Booker is.

Nice of you to dismiss Paul's hideously bad performance, but criticize Booker for his tonight, coming off of 42 and 40 in the two games prior. It works both ways.

Every post from you in the game thread was Booker, Booker, Schnooker, Looker, Tooker, Booker.

He and Paul are the cuck bros...one is too afraid to look inefficient on the box score and the other never met a shot he didn't like.

The cuck Bros.

:roll:

[ClipperRevival]

He wasn't even their best guard. :roll:

I am done with you bro. Not worth my time.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/360ba7a7785585298b480870eea8677e/tenor.gif?itemid=15832233

[jayfan]

:roll:


Isiah didn't guard any of the other big time stars. He had a whole team of elite defenders (including DPOY Rodman and 1st Team All-NBA defense Dumars) to defend the other teams stars while he guarded John Paxon.

What makes him "the man", his 18 ppg on weak efficiency? F outta here with this nonsense.

BTW Paul averaged 22/8 in the Finals with a TS of 62% against an elite defense.

Nothing elite about that defense. They just failed to adjust.


.

[ClipperRevival]

1988 Isiah at age 26 in the Finals: 20/4/9 on 52 TS%
2021 CP3 at age 36 in the Finals: 22/3/8 on 62 TS%

Prime Isiah got outplayed by a 36 year old in the Finals, lmfao.

Can you post Isiah's 1990 Finals stats? Thanks in advance (hint, it's already posted in this thread)

[999Guy]

Kids want to talk about scoring and say CP3 > Isiah?

Did CP3 ever score 25 points in a quarter in a finals game on one leg?

Or score 16 points in 90 seconds in a playoff game?

FACT is, Isiah was a great scorer and simply held back his scoring to WIN.

Why do idiots get so emboldened over things that don’t matter at all?

You’re spouting this absolute nonsense with the confidence of a guy who just witnessed something, telling?

A 36 year old Chris Paul loses a finals series - and btw the fact that the guy led his team to his first finals at 36, not even close to in prime just shows how retarded fans are from the beginning anyway, because under your train of logic, this is the best version of Chris Paul so far - but a 36 year old Paul loses to some third world freak of nature and you think Isiah worse at all facets of basketball Thomas is proven to be better?

And you’re confident in this. Dummy.

[FKAri]

Disingenuous arguments from both sides. I love ISH!

[RogueBorg]

Not better than Nash or Kidd either. I don't give a **** what the stats do or don't say.

Nash ain't better than CP c'mon. Sure he has 2 charity MVP's but what has he really done?

Nash is a career 14 ppg, 8.5 apg, and horrible on the defensive end. Really?

[1987_Lakers]

Isiah's 1990 Finals MVP stats:

27.6 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 7.0 APG, .542% FG, .688% 3PT (11/16)

CP0 can only DREAM of having a finals like that where he is FMVP.

'90 Isiah playoff run: 21/6//8 on 56 TS%
'21 CP3 playoff run at age 36: 19/4/8 on 58 TS%

Isiah's best playoff championship run is on par with a 36 year old CP3. :roll:

[tontoz]

I am done with you bro. Not worth my time.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/360ba7a7785585298b480870eea8677e/tenor.gif?itemid=15832233


Why don't you talk about Isiah's "intangibles"....that is always so riveting. :oldlol:

Jordan (who didn't give out compliments to his foes often) said Dumars guarded him better than anyone. Considering how much he hated the Pistons that is high praise.

You cherry pick Isiah's Finals performance in 1990 but ignore the ECF where Dumars showed out. He was Detroit's leading scorer while going head to head with Jordan.

[theman93]

Agreed OP.

Chris Paul is labeled a playoff choker for a reason.

Isaiah Thomas headed a dynasty.

[ClipperRevival]

'90 Isiah playoff run: 21/6//8 on 56 TS%
'21 CP3 playoff run at age 36: 19/4/8 on 58 TS%

Isiah's best playoff championship run is on par with a 36 year old CP3. :roll:

Keep doing you with your bball ref reliance and specified stats. It suits you babyboi.

[jayfan]

This debate has nothing to do with overall stats, supporting casts, or opposing defenses. It's about CP3 cowering when the heat is on. Which he did promptly again last night. He wanted none of the smoke. And played like it.


.

[1987_Lakers]

Keep doing you with your bball ref reliance and specified stats. It suits you babyboi.

Didn't you just use basketballref to point out Isiah's '90 Finals numbers? Don't be a hypocrite.

Doesn't feel so good when facts get thrown your way does it? I know you're fuming right now.

CP3 > Isiah

[theman93]

Nash ain't better than CP c'mon. Sure he has 2 charity MVP's but what has he really done?

Nash is a career 14 ppg, 8.5 apg, and horrible on the defensive end. Really?

2 MVP’s > anything Paul’s ever done

[ClipperRevival]

Why don't you talk about Isiah's "intangibles"....that is always so riveting. :oldlol:

Jordan (who didn't give out compliments to his foes often) said Dumars guarded him better than anyone. Considering how much he hated the Pistons that is high praise.

You cherry pick Isiah's Finals performance in 1990 but ignore the ECF where Dumars showed out. He was Detroit's leading scorer while going head to head with Jordan.

You're right. Since "intangibles" isn't quantifiable, it's easy for one to argue against it. So we are done here.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/2595b1af5c3a071abbdf30354a7eda76/tenor.gif?itemid=12724309

[tontoz]

CP3 scored 26 on 11-19 last night against a strong defense. If Isiah did that these clowns would be fawning all over him.

[1987_Lakers]

2 MVP’s > anything Paul’s ever done

Im guessing Rose > CP3 now because he has an MVP, amirite?

Logic has never been MJ's stans strongest suit.

[ClipperRevival]

CP3 scored 26 on 11-19 last night against a strong defense. If Isiah did that these clowns would be fawning all over him.

Stats, stats, stats. Holy fu*k some of yall fans are dense as fu*k.

[ImKobe]

1988 Isiah at age 26 in the Finals: 20/4/9 on 52 TS%
2021 CP3 at age 36 in the Finals: 22/3/8 on 62 TS%

Prime Isiah got outplayed by a 36 year old in the Finals, lmfao.

Delusional. One scored amongst the trees and the other was left wide open at the FT line all series. Zeke had the higher GameScore btw, even with his limited minutes in Game 7.

[tontoz]

Stats, stats, stats. Holy fu*k some of yall fans are dense as fu*k.

Right because intangibles count on the scoreboard and stats dont. :facepalm

[1987_Lakers]

Stats, stats, stats. Holy fu*k some of yall fans are dense as fu*k.

You just a few minutes ago...


Isiah's 1990 Finals MVP stats:

27.6 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 7.0 APG, .542% FG, .688% 3PT (11/16)

CP0 can only DREAM of having a finals like that where he is FMVP.

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Delusional. One scored amongst the trees and the other was left wide open at the FT line all series. Zeke had the higher GameScore btw, even with his limited minutes in Game 7.

Tf are you talking about? Isiah scored against the trees? Lakers had the #9 defense that year out of 23 teams in the league, which is above average. They had a 41 year old Kareem as a rim protector, and a past prime Michael Cooper as their best overall defender.

Bucks had the #10 defense out of 30 teams which is good defense, they had better individual defenders all over the floor compared to the Lakers, Holiday > Magic, Middleton > Worthy, Giannis > any lakers defender. CP3 played a much better defense at it isn't even close, despite this... CP3 still had a better Finals.

[jayfan]

Right because intangibles count on the scoreboard and stats dont. :facepalm
In the case of Isiah v. CP3, that is correct.

Chris Paul was scared last night.

[ClipperRevival]

You just a few minutes ago...



:roll:

My stats are different because they matter. But thanks for re-bumping the amazing stats put up by Isiah in his 1990 Finals MVP performance. Kind of you,

[RogueBorg]

CP3 scored 26 on 11-19 last night against a strong defense. If Isiah did that these clowns would be fawning all over him.

My son did remind me that he had crucial TO's down the stretch.

[tontoz]

My stats are different because they matter. But thanks for re-bumping the amazing stats put up by Isiah in his 1990 Finals MVP performance. Kind of you,


Right you get to decide what stats matter and what stats don't.

Why dont you post the stats from the 1990 ECF? How about the 1989 and 1988 Finals? Or do those not matter either?

[ImKobe]

Tf are you talking about? Isiah scored against the trees? Lakers had the #9 defense that year out of 23 teams in the league, which is above average. They had a 41 year old Kareem as a rim protector, and a past prime Michael Cooper as their best overall defender.

Bucks had the #10 defense out of 30 teams which is good defense, they had better individual defenders all over the floor compared to the Lakers, Holiday > Magic, Middleton > Worthy, Giannis > any lakers defender. CP3 played a much better defense at it isn't even close, despite this... CP3 still had a better Finals.

CP3 played better defense? That's not what I saw. I'm guessing you give him credit for all the open shots & layups that Jrue bricked :kobe: .

At the end, Zeke's averages are the same but he did it in a tougher era and got injured so his series is more impressive because he was one bad call from winning FMVP with a legendary 43 pt 8 ast 6 stl performance in a Finals close-out game while CP3 choked in B2B games with his teammate putting up B2B 40-pt nights.

[theman93]

When was Isaiah committing costly turnovers down the stretch or committing stupid fouls to put the game out of reach in the Finals?

When did Isaiah blow FOUR 2-0 leads in the playoffs?

[ClipperRevival]

Right you get to decide what stats matter and what stats don't.

Why dont you post the stats from the 1990 ECF? How about the 1989 and 1988 Finals? Or do those not matter either?

You can post them yourself if you feel they help your cause. I honestly don't care. I know what Isiah was.

[tontoz]

CP3 made the All-NBA team at age 36, something Isiah couldn't do at 26....or 27.... or 28.....or 29....or 30......etc



But but but those intangibles....:oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

My stats are different because they matter. But thanks for re-bumping the amazing stats put up by Isiah in his 1990 Finals MVP performance. Kind of you,

You know how dumb you sound? "My stats matter, yours don't"?

The stats show CP3 was a better player than Isiah, and Isiah can't use the "played in a defensive era" argument because we all know the 80's was an all offensive era. When you breakdown their games, CP3 is the better player, Paul is the superior shooter, superior defender, and a much more efficient scorer. CP3 has proven to elevate every team he has played on, Clippers, Rockets, Thunder, Suns etc.

Not only does CP3 have him beat in stats, but he also has him beat in the defensive end as he is the far better defender. You are just a prisoner at the moment right now cause the Suns lost, but in reality, history will look at CP3 as the better player no matter what you say.

[1987_Lakers]

When was Isaiah committing costly turnovers down the stretch or committing stupid fouls to put the game out of reach in the Finals?

When did Isaiah blow FOUR 2-0 leads in the playoffs?

Well this costly turnover prevented him from reaching the Finals...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNpJXDPnQTE

[1987_Lakers]

CP3 made the All-NBA team at age 36, something Isiah couldn't do at 26....or 27.... or 28.....or 29....or 30......etc



But but but those intangibles....:oldlol:

CP3 was making the Finals and getting MVP votes at 36, Isiah was retired at 32. :oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

You know how dumb you sound? "My stats matter, yours don't"?

The stats show CP3 was a better player than Isiah, and Isiah can't use the "played in a defensive era" argument because we all know the 80's was an all offensive era. When you breakdown their games, CP3 is the better player, Paul is the superior shooter, superior defender, and a much more efficient scorer. CP3 has proven to elevate every team he has played on, Clippers, Rockets, Thunder, Suns etc.

Not only does CP3 have him beat in stats, but he also has him beat in the defensive end as he is the far better defender. You are just a prisoner at the moment right now cause the Suns lost, but in reality, history will look at CP3 as the better player no matter what you say.

In a vacuum, CP3 was probably the better player. Probably the most complete PG ever.. Probably the better floor raiser too but something about that dude when it comes to crunch time. He doesn't want to be part of the outcome and shells up. Sorry, can't have that. If I have to go to war in a 7 game series, I take Isiah all day. He wasn't as complete but he was a killer and wasn't afraid of the moment. Sorry but that sh*t counts. Games aren't played on paper. You play to win.

Disagree, I could give a sh*t.

[jayfan]

You are just a prisoner at the moment right now cause the Suns lost, but in reality, history will look at CP3 as the better player no matter what you say.

Right. Prisoner of the moment for the umpteenth year in a row when Paul pulls a choke job.

[1987_Lakers]

CP3 played better defense? That's not what I saw. I'm guessing you give him credit for all the open shots & layups that Jrue bricked :kobe: .

At the end, Zeke's averages are the same but he did it in a tougher era and got injured so his series is more impressive because he was one bad call from winning FMVP with a legendary 43 pt 8 ast 6 stl performance in a Finals close-out game while CP3 choked in B2B games with his teammate putting up B2B 40-pt nights.

When you look at their primes, Isiah played in an era where teams averaged 110 ppg on 48% shooting.

CP3 peaked in 2012-2016 where teams averaged 101 ppg on 46% shooting.

Tell me, how did Isiah play in a tougher era? It was easier to score in the 80's than it was in the mid 2010's and it isn't even close.

Bucks had a superior defense than the Lakers and CP3 still had a better series, the Pistons were up 3-2 on the Lakers despite Isiah shooting like trash, put prime CP3 on that team and the Pistons would have closed out the Lakers in 5.

[tontoz]

Right. Prisoner of the moment for the umpteenth year in a row when Paul pulls a choke job.

Yeah it's all CP3s fault that Giannis scored 50 and shot 17-19 from the foul line. :facepalm

[ImKobe]

When you look at their primes, Isiah played in an era where teams averaged 110 ppg on 48% shooting.

CP3 peaked in 2012-2016 where teams averaged 101 ppg on 46% shooting.

Tell me, how did Isiah play in a tougher era? It was easier to score in the 80's than it was in the mid 2010's and it isn't even close.

Bucks had a superior defense than the Lakers and CP3 still had a better series, the Pistons were up 3-2 on the Lakers despite Isiah shooting like trash, put prime CP3 on that team and the Pistons would have closed out the Lakers in 5.

Why are you looking at 2012-16 exactly? The League has been breaking all-time ORTG numbers since 2017.

Bucks allowed 114 points a game, Lakers allowed 107 btw. FG% means jack shit when teams shoot volume 3s now, which means that CP3 gets his wide open 10-15 ft jump shots that he shoots 50% on since teams are mostly looking to protect the rim and the 3-PT line. Also, Lakers played at a much slower pace. '88 Finals - 90.7 pace; '21 Finals - 95.5 pace.

[1987_Lakers]

Right. Prisoner of the moment for the umpteenth year in a row when Paul pulls a choke job.

Yes, Im sure history will look at CP3's 26 points on 11-19 shooting last night as a choke job. :oldlol:

Funny how we all forget CP3 had 41 points in game 6 of the WCF to clinch his team a Finals birth, that was as clutch as it gets. Problem is CP3 has never played on a bonified championship caliber team and because of that people blame his losses on choking instead of accepting the fact that his teams were never good enough, it shows you small minded some fans are.

[tontoz]

Seriously nobody was expecting the Suns to make the Finals this year. Before the playoffs started a bunch of people were saying the Suns would probably get knocked out early.

They get to the Finals and lose because the other team has a 2 time MVP who went off and somehow it is a CP3 choke job. Nonsense.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Don't think you could go wrong w/ either of them. Well, compared to the field of point guards they're in.

In their primes, Isiah had better leadership and health. CP3 is a better passer and defender, but his health is questionable.

They're close whether people agree or not.

[RRR3]

CP3 getting held to the same standards y’all hold LeBron too is hilarious.

[1987_Lakers]

Why are you looking at 2012-16 exactly? The League has been breaking all-time ORTG numbers since 2017.

Bucks allowed 114 points a game, Lakers allowed 107 btw. FG% means jack shit when teams shoot volume 3s now, which means that CP3 gets his wide open 10-15 ft jump shots that he shoots 50% on since teams are mostly looking to protect the rim and the 3-PT line. Also, Lakers played at a much slower pace. '88 Finals - 90.7 pace; '21 Finals - 95.5 pace.

Because CP3 peaked during those years, are you going to consider 2018-2021 CP3's prime???

The 1996 Clippers allowed 103 ppg and the 2017 Warriors allowed 104 ppg, does that mean they were on the same level defensively?

And you just answered your own question as to why the Bucks allowed more points, they played at a faster pace, compared to the rest of the league the Bucks were a better defensive team as I already showed.

Holiday
Tucker
Giannis
Middleton

These are all great to good defensive players, the Lakers had only one really good defensive player on the team in Michael Cooper. Magic was atrocious defensively, 41 year old Kareem was bad, Worthy and Scott were OK but nothing special, CP3 went up against better defensive talent and it's not close tbh.

[RRR3]

Because CP3 peaked during those years, are you going to consider 2018-2021 CP3's prime???

The 1996 Clippers allowed 103 ppg and the 2017 Warriors allowed 104 ppg, does that mean they were on the same level defensively?

And you just answered your own question as to why the Bucks allowed more points, they played at a faster pace, compared to the rest of the league the Bucks were a better defensive team as I already showed.

Holiday
Tucker
Giannis
Middleton

These are all great to good defensive players, the Lakers had only one really good defensive player on the team in Michael Cooper. Magic was atrocious defensively, 41 year old Kareem was bad, Worthy and Scott were OK but nothing special, CP3 went up against better defensive talent and it's not close tbh.
He was still in his prime in 18. Not after that though.

[RRR3]

So basically CP3 is better at basketball but Isiah is somehow better because “RRRRRRRANGZ doe”. None of you can actually name any aspect of basketball Isiah was better at lol.

[1987_Lakers]

So basically CP3 is better at basketball but Isiah is somehow better because “RRRRRRRANGZ doe”. None of you can actually name any aspect of basketball Isiah was better at lol.
Shows you how small minded people are.

[hold this L]

So basically CP3 is better at basketball but Isiah is somehow better because “RRRRRRRANGZ doe”. None of you can actually name any aspect of basketball Isiah was better at lol.
He didn't shrink in important games and he is available in important times during PS. CP3 looks like the perfect PG if you look at only his stats.

Availability/health is huge. Just look at some of the goats in their sport, Ronaldo, Messi, Lebron, MJ. These guys need a truck to go through them to get an actual injury.

[tontoz]

So basically CP3 is better at basketball but Isiah is somehow better because “RRRRRRRANGZ doe”. None of you can actually name any aspect of basketball Isiah was better at lol.

Actually i can do that. :oldlol:


Isiah was better at beating guys off the dribble and finishing inside. Can't lie he was great at that.

[jayfan]

Yeah it's all CP3s fault that Giannis scored 50 and shot 17-19 from the foul line. :facepalm
Did you watch the game? Paul played scared and shit the bed down the stretch.

.

[RRR3]

He didn't shrink in important games and he is available in important times during PS. CP3 looks like the perfect PG if you look at only his stats.

Availability/health is huge. Just look at some of the goats in their sport, Ronaldo, Messi, Lebron, MJ. These guys need a truck to go through them to get an actual injury.
Skip Bayless level arguments. CP3 has almost always matched or exceeded his regular season production in the playoffs and a Curry stan talking shit about anyone being scared in the clutch is hilarious.

[tontoz]

Did you watch the game? Paul played scared and shit the bed down the stretch.

.

Haven't watched the 2nd half yet. :lol

[1987_Lakers]

He didn't shrink in important games and he is available in important times during PS. CP3 looks like the perfect PG if you look at only his stats.

Availability/health is huge. Just look at some of the goats in their sport, Ronaldo, Messi, Lebron, MJ. These guys need a truck to go through them to get an actual injury.

Isiah shrank in the first 5 games of the '88 Finals, he made the most costly turnover in NBA history in the '87 ECF Finals, let's not act like Isiah was Godly in the biggest games because he wasn't. His '89 Finals performance is pretty "meh" as well, didn't even snag Finals MVP.

[RRR3]

Isiah shrank in the first 5 games of the '88 Finals, he made the most costly turnover in NBA history in the '87 ECF Finals, let's not act like Isiah was Godly in the biggest games because he wasn't. His '89 Finals performance is pretty "meh" as well, didn't even snag Finals MVP.
He’s a ****ing CURRY STAN. imagine having the gall to talk about anyone shriveling when you stan one of the GOAT chokers. Curry has zero rings it if wasn’t for injuries in 15 and Papa Durant saving his legacy :roll:

[hold this L]

Skip Bayless level arguments. CP3 has almost always matched or exceeded his regular season production in the playoffs and a Curry stan talking shit about anyone being scared in the clutch is hilarious.
What are you on about? Doesn't matter if he exceeded his numbers you idiot. He has not played well at the end of quarters. This finals is a perfect example, he does it in 2 games, and they're champions. Instead he turned into a passive fraud. But yes, he got his 21/11 so stans can kiss his ass like yourself.

He’s a ****ing CURRY STAN. imagine having the gall to talk about anyone shriveling when you stan one of the GOAT chokers. Curry has zero rings it if wasn’t for injuries in 15 and Papa Durant saving his legacy :roll:
Gotta love the what if barbershop talk about the most successful NBA superstar in the NBA after Lebron from our transexual lover. The idea that Steph isn't good in the 4th is stupid as hell, but I'm sure you have some chart from ESPN or Nick Wright that can make the arguments for you?

[hold this L]

Isiah shrank in the first 5 games of the '88 Finals, he made the most costly turnover in NBA history in the '87 ECF Finals, let's not act like Isiah was Godly in the biggest games because he wasn't. His '89 Finals performance is pretty "meh" as well, didn't even snag Finals MVP.
We can make an argument the g4 TO from this finals is one of the most costly TOs ever as well, and he did with zero pressure on him. He just slipped. His last 3 important series all have the two issues that I said. He got injured vs the Warriors in one of them, was unnecessarily passive and bent over a year later, and in this one again was passive but still got his numbers so morons like RRR3 think he's contributed.

Let me ask you this. How many series has CP3 balled out in the 4th in the playoffs? Lets discount the Nuggets who were missing both their starting guards.

[RRR3]

Steph shrivels in the clutch :(


Durant had to take over when it got too close.


Still no iconic moments in the playoffs. Even CP3 has one (GW vs Spurs)

[ImKobe]

So basically CP3 is better at basketball but Isiah is somehow better because “RRRRRRRANGZ doe”. None of you can actually name any aspect of basketball Isiah was better at lol.

No, it's because Zeke showed up more than CP3 in big moments. Beating MJ 3x is more impressive than anything Paul did in his Playoffs career if we're being honest.

[1987_Lakers]

We can make an argument the g4 TO from this finals is one of the most costly TOs ever as well, and he did with zero pressure on him. He just slipped. His last 3 important series all have the two issues that I said. He got injured vs the Warriors in one of them, was unnecessarily passive and bent over a year later, and in this one again was passive but still got his numbers so morons like RRR3 think he's contributed.

Let me ask you this. How many series has CP3 balled out in the 4th in the playoffs? Lets discount the Nuggets who were missing both their starting guards.

The problem is CP3 & Isiah were not natural scoring machines like LeBron, Durant, and even Curry so to judge how many times they balled out in the 4th quarter can be a little disingenuous. Isiah had numerous playoff games from '88-'90 where he scored under 15 points, he obviously had numerous games where he didn't ball out at all in the 4th quarter but I'm not gonna use that against him, we have to understand that guys like CP3 and Isiah are a tier below guys like LeBron, Durant, MJ etc.

Isiah for example usually shit the bed when he played Chicago in the playoffs, if you combine his stats against them from '88-'90 then he shot under 40% vs the Bulls and was usually bailed out by his team's great defense, but of course nobody remembers this because it happened 30+ years ago. Isiah was not the killer some would have you believe. Funny what a couple of championships can do for you rep wise, even if it's not 100% true.

[RRR3]

Durrr duhhhh rangz doe I can’t think critically durhhhhhhhhhh duhhhh
:facepalm

[1987_Lakers]

No, it's because Zeke showed up more than CP3 in big moments. Beating MJ 3x is more impressive than anything Paul did in his Playoffs career if we're being honest.

Yea, beating MJ 3 times and shooting under 40% in the process, really impressive. :oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

I had a great 20 minute clip of excerpts of just Isiah Thomas scenes showing just what he meant to the Pistons and in that era from the 30 for 30, Bad Boys documentary but YouTube won't let me upload it due to copyright infringement. It's a shame too.

I know you detractors will just refer to the stats and say CP3 was better but you really need to hear/know his story to appreciate what he was/meant. I encourage you to watch that doc if you haven't. Amazing doc.

If you are only going to look at stats to make this call, there is nothing more I can say or do to convince you.

Here's what I can say about Isiah skill wise. He had GOAT tier handles, was an great passer, was an explosive scorer, more athletic than CP3 (YouTube his dunks), more quicker and obviously, his intangibles and leadership were GOAT tier. CP3 sh*ts on him on D though.

[ImKobe]

:facepalm

Oh yes, let's overlook all the terrible offensive plays by CP0 in all his Playoff meltdowns (including in these Finals) and only focus on advanced metrics. We need an NBA equivalent of the QBR stat that accounts for horrible turnovers/fouls etc in late game situations.

[1987_Lakers]

Isiah vs Chicago from '88-'90

'88: 40% shooting
'89: 39% shooting
'90: 39.6% shooting

"But, but, he beat MJ 3 straight times". :oldlol:

[hold this L]

The problem is CP3 & Isiah were not natural scoring machines like LeBron, Durant, and even Curry so to judge how many times they balled out in the 4th quarter can be a little disingenuous. Isiah had numerous playoff games from '88-'90 where he scored under 15 points, he obviously had numerous games where he didn't ball out at all in the 4th quarter but I'm not gonna use that against him, we have to understand that guys like CP3 and Isiah are a tier below guys like LeBron, Durant, MJ etc.

Isiah for example usually shit the bed when he played Chicago in the playoffs, if you combine his stats against them from '88-'90 then he shot under 40% vs the Bulls and was usually bailed out by his team's great defense, but of course nobody remembers this because it happened 30+ years ago. Isiah was not the killer some would have you believe. Funny what a couple of championships can do for you rep wise, even if it's not 100% true.
I'm not even talking about scoring. Make game winning plays. Whether it's defensive or a pass that helps push them to win. But he couldn't. He would just pass the responsibility to a guy that isn't even open.

[ClipperRevival]

The problem is CP3 & Isiah were not natural scoring machines like LeBron, Durant, and even Curry so to judge how many times they balled out in the 4th quarter can be a little disingenuous. Isiah had numerous playoff games from '88-'90 where he scored under 15 points, he obviously had numerous games where he didn't ball out at all in the 4th quarter but I'm not gonna use that against him, we have to understand that guys like CP3 and Isiah are a tier below guys like LeBron, Durant, MJ etc.

Isiah for example usually shit the bed when he played Chicago in the playoffs, if you combine his stats against them from '88-'90 then he shot under 40% vs the Bulls and was usually bailed out by his team's great defense, but of course nobody remembers this because it happened 30+ years ago. Isiah was not the killer some would have you believe. Funny what a couple of championships can do for you rep wise, even if it's not 100% true.

Are you like dense bro?

Like I showed you clear examples of Isiah exploding offensively when he decided to let it go in this thread. And CP3 certainly had the talent to score in bunches too if he chose to do it but he rarely let that bag out, which is on him. At least Isiah did at times when it was needed. Isiah easily had the offensive skills to be a consistent 25-27 PPG scorer if he wanted too but he wanted to win and held back his scoring.

[ClipperRevival]

Isiah vs Chicago from '88-'90

'88: 40% shooting
'89: 39% shooting
'90: 39.6% shooting

"But, but, he beat MJ 3 straight times". :oldlol:

So dense.

Just focus one one stat. LOL

[ImKobe]

Isiah vs Chicago from '88-'90

'88: 40% shooting
'89: 39% shooting
'90: 39.6% shooting

"But, but, he beat MJ 3 straight times". :oldlol:

'88: 20/4/10/2, 25/4/10 in the close-out game
'89: 21/5/8/2, 33/5/4/3 in the close-out game
'90: 18/6/9/3, 21/8/11/2/1 in Game 7

Best player on his team in all the series. Went up against the best perimeter defenders of his era as well.

But, but, FG%!!!!!!!

[1987_Lakers]

Are you like dense bro?

Like I showed you clear examples of Isiah exploding offensively when he decided to let it go in this thread. And CP3 certainly had the talent to score in bunches too if he chose to do it but he rarely let that bag out, which is on him. At least Isiah did at times when it was needed. Isiah easily had the offensive skills to be a consistent 25-27 PPG scorer if he wanted too but he wanted to win and held back his scoring.

Career 20 ppg playoff scorer on below average efficiency, if he was such a great scorer we would have seem him put up 25-27 ppg consistently. End of discussion.

[1987_Lakers]

'88: 20/4/10/2, 25/4/10 in the close-out game
'89: 21/5/8/2, 33/5/4/3 in the close-out game
'90: 18/6/9/3, 21/8/11/2/1 in Game 7

Best player on his team in all the series. Went up against the best perimeter defenders of his era as well.

But, but, FG%!!!!!!!

Didn't CP3 have a 41 point closeout game in the WCF a couple of weeks ago? Shame how you guys ignore that.

[hold this L]

Steph shrivels in the clutch :(


Durant had to take over when it got too close.


Still no iconic moments in the playoffs. Even CP3 has one (GW vs Spurs)
Steph is one of the best clutch players in the league. Dame is technically the best clutch shooter in the entire league, yet his team was leading the Warriors for around 80% of the series and yet got swept. Iggy even said recently that they were down by 18 in every single game in that series while he averaged 37.5 coming from behind every single time. Literally the greatest 3rd quarter team of all time, pretty sure they had the record from biggest comebacks in 16 as they went through the season ever. Also has the 2nd highest PPG in 4th quarter in NBA finals history after Shaq form 2015.

You're using the same joke that the biggest losers on ish are parroting. In 2015, he had a 3 to take a series to OT vs Pels, 3/4 shot vs Grizzlies, and the mean mug 3 on Delly when you knew that series was a wrap. Amazing that you bring Curry into a conversation that he has nothing to do with this topic. Or being that much of a mouth breathing moron that you think CP3 is more clutch than Curry.

[ClipperRevival]

Career 20 ppg playoff scorer on below average efficiency, if he was such a great scorer we would have seem him put up 25-27 ppg consistently. End of discussion.

*25 point quarter in the 1988 NBA finals on one leg, legendary performance
*16 points scored in 90 seconds to beat the Knicks in the playoffs
*27.6 PPG on 54% in the 1990 finals en route to FMVP

These are called great moments. He played primarily to win and sacrificed stats and guess what, he did babyboi. Something your man couldn't do.

https://media.tenor.com/images/ec3be9b51dd923583bffba75fb53acbf/tenor.gif

[ImKobe]

Didn't CP3 have a 41 point closeout game in the WCF a couple of weeks ago? Shame how you guys ignore that.

Against a Clippers' squad missing their best offensive & defensive player while stat-padding at the end of that game. His team spotted him a 2 - 0 series lead and all he needed was to win 2 of the 5 remaining games in order to make the Finals.

[hold this L]

Didn't CP3 have a 41 point closeout game in the WCF a couple of weeks ago? Shame how you guys ignore that.
And he was bad for all 3 games before that. 2-0 without him, 2-2 with him despite the other team having their best player, and another starter out.

[1987_Lakers]

Against a Clippers' squad missing their best offensive & defensive player while stat-padding at the end of that game. His team spotted him a 2 - 0 series lead and all he needed was to win 2 of the 5 remaining games in order to make the Finals.

And Isiah won his first title against a team missing their best player Magic Johnson & Byron Scott, despite this, he still didn't win Finals MVP, shame.

[ClipperRevival]

And Isiah won his first title against a team missing their best player Magic Johnson & Byron Scott, despite this, he still didn't win Finals MVP, shame.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1bfe127d58ab710464a5d94d229a4f89/tenor.gif?itemid=17518444

[1987_Lakers]

*25 point quarter in the 1988 NBA finals on one leg, legendary performance
*16 points scored in 90 seconds to beat the Knicks in the playoffs
*27.6 PPG on 54% in the 1990 finals en route to FMVP

These are called great moments. He played primarily to win and sacrificed stats and guess what, he did babyboi. Something your man couldn't do.

https://media.tenor.com/images/ec3be9b51dd923583bffba75fb53acbf/tenor.gif

Pistons had a 3-2 series lead against the Lakers in '88 with Isiah shooting...

game 1: 6 of 16
game 2: 5 of 14
game 3: 10 of 21
game 4: 2 of 7
game 5: 4 of 13

Isiah vs Chicago from '88-'90

'88: 40% shooting
'89: 39% shooting
'90: 39.6% shooting

Bailed out by his defense as usual.

https://media.tenor.com/images/ec3be9b51dd923583bffba75fb53acbf/tenor.gif

[ImKobe]

And Isiah won his first title against a team missing their best player Magic Johnson & Byron Scott, despite this, he still didn't win Finals MVP, shame.

He was the best player on his team in the actual Finals (ECF) against DPOY & MVP MJ, who he outscored in 3 of the 6 games, including Game 6 @Chicago :pimp:

[tontoz]

Are you like dense bro?

Like I showed you clear examples of Isiah exploding offensively when he decided to let it go in this thread. And CP3 certainly had the talent to score in bunches too if he chose to do it but he rarely let that bag out, which is on him. At least Isiah did at times when it was needed. Isiah easily had the offensive skills to be a consistent 25-27 PPG scorer if he wanted too but he wanted to win and held back his scoring.


Uhh...no.

Isiah was scoring an inefficient 18 during their title years so i see no reason to think he could magically score an efficient 25 if he chose to.

He just wasnt a good shooter, 29% from 3, weak from midrange and 76% from the foul line.

Here are his TS percentages during the years they made the Finals:

'88 52.1%
'89 52.8%
'90 50.1%

:sleeping

[ClipperRevival]

Didn't CP3 have a 41 point closeout game in the WCF a couple of weeks ago? Shame how you guys ignore that.

Do you not SEE this is why some are hard in him? He shows you what he is capable of doing. Why not save that sh*t for when it matters most? CP3 played like sh*t in games 3-5, I don't care what his stats say. Watch the games. If he just somewhat shows up, Suns probably chip as Book was going off. He disappears when it was needed.

[1987_Lakers]

He was the best player on his team in the actual Finals (ECF) against DPOY & MVP MJ, who he outscored in 3 of the 6 games, including Game 6 @Chicago :pimp:

Sorry, Detroit's defense was the true MVP in those series. Held a a 106-110 ppg Chicago team to 90-93 ppg in '89 & '90 ECF.

[ClipperRevival]

Pistons had a 3-2 series lead against the Lakers in '88 with Isiah shooting...

game 1: 6 of 16
game 2: 5 of 14
game 3: 10 of 21
game 4: 2 of 7
game 5: 4 of 13

Isiah vs Chicago from '88-'90

'88: 40% shooting
'89: 39% shooting
'90: 39.6% shooting

Bailed out by his defense as usual.

https://media.tenor.com/images/ec3be9b51dd923583bffba75fb53acbf/tenor.gif

2 rings vs 0
1 fmvp vs 0
No giving up 2-0 series lead 4 times
No flopping

https://media1.tenor.com/images/88a5d67e8fa6d034c1cbffc0026f7e95/tenor.gif?itemid=10355907

[hold this L]

From an actual Suns fan, instead of the CP3 stans

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495998-Missing-Poster-Report-Hamtaro-CP3KDKG&p=14399291&viewfull=1#post14399291


CP3 really did disappear most of the time when the Suns needed him the most sadly. And his best series by far was against the team that we swept where he didn't even need to play good for us to win. Although he did play great in game 6 against the Clippers.
But he had solid shooting FG % so his fans can be satisfied that he was great. This is the problem with people that only look at stats.

[ClipperRevival]

Uhh...no.

Isiah was scoring an inefficient 18 during their title years so i see no reason to think he could magically score an efficient 25 if he chose to.

He just wasnt a good shooter, 29% from 3, weak from midrange and 76% from the foul line.

Here are his TS percentages during the years they made the Finals:

'88 52.1%
'89 52.8%
'90 50.1%

:sleeping

Right. TS% the ultimate measure of impact for a PG who tried to get others involved and lead his team. LOL.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/a84ddcc735aec20979d0eef871aa2937/tenor.gif?itemid=5471477

[ImKobe]

Sorry, Detroit's defense was the true MVP in those series. Held a a 106-110 ppg Chicago team to 90-93 ppg in '89 & '90 ECF.

Look at the difference in pace in RS & their series. Zeke controlled the tempo of the game.

[1987_Lakers]

2 rings vs 0
1 fmvp vs 0
No giving up 2-0 series lead 4 times
No flopping

https://media1.tenor.com/images/88a5d67e8fa6d034c1cbffc0026f7e95/tenor.gif?itemid=10355907

Better shooter from 3, mid-range, & FT line
Better defender
More efficient scorer
Superior longevity
Wasn't bailed out by his defense

https://media1.tenor.com/images/88a5d67e8fa6d034c1cbffc0026f7e95/tenor.gif?itemid=10355907

[hold this L]

Better shooter from 3, mid-range, & FT line
Better defender
More efficient scorer
Superior longevity
Wasn't bailed out by his defense

https://media1.tenor.com/images/88a5d67e8fa6d034c1cbffc0026f7e95/tenor.gif?itemid=10355907
And yet, he's literally the biggest loser in NBA history after another 2-0 choke. Pretty amazing that he's so good yet as the director of each team, they keep choking lead after lead.

[tontoz]

Right. TS% the ultimate measure of impact for a PG who tried to get others involved and lead his team. LOL.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/a84ddcc735aec20979d0eef871aa2937/tenor.gif?itemid=5471477


Way to move the goal posts. You said he could have averaged 25 if he wanted to. Based on what?

He was struggling with his scoring efficiency at 18 ppg. Can't imagine how bad it would have been at 25 ppg. Probably down around 48.1% or below, which just happens to be his postseason TS when they won their first title.

[1987_Lakers]

Look at the difference in pace in RS & their series. Zeke controlled the tempo of the game.

No, it was Detroit's defense that was MVP and held Chicago to 44% shooting in '89 & 41% shooting in '90, had nothing to with Isiah cause he was a non factor on defense. "But he controlled the tempo" lmfao.

[1987_Lakers]

And yet, he's literally the biggest loser in NBA history after another 2-0 choke. Pretty amazing that he's so good yet as the director of each team, they keep choking lead after lead.

Curry made the Finals 5 straight years as the favorite to win and yet, didn't win a single Finals MVP, pathetic.

[1987_Lakers]

Way to move the goal posts. You said he could have averaged 25 if he wanted to. Based on what?

He was struggling with his scoring efficiency at 18 ppg. Can't imagine how bad it would have been at 25 ppg. Probably down around 48.1% or below, which just happens to be his postseason TS when they won their first title.

MJ stans and logic don't mix.

[ClipperRevival]

Better shooter from 3, mid-range, & FT line
Better defender
More efficient scorer
Superior longevity
Wasn't bailed out by his defense

https://media1.tenor.com/images/88a5d67e8fa6d034c1cbffc0026f7e95/tenor.gif?itemid=10355907

Better leader
Pure killer
Respected by peers (MJ called him 2nd best PG)
Played in real tough man's era
Took out Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtic's, and MJ's Bulls

https://media1.tenor.com/images/88a5d67e8fa6d034c1cbffc0026f7e95/tenor.gif?itemid=10355907

[RogueBorg]

Actually i can do that. :oldlol:


Isiah was better at beating guys off the dribble and finishing inside. Can't lie he was great at that.

I will say this about this debate. CP0 is ALWAYS getting hurt. Sometimes it seems like it's an excuse for losing.

But Isiah Thomas? He once scored 25 points in a quarter on basically a broken ankle. CP never would have done this


https://youtu.be/ysBBPJT6nJ8

https://youtu.be/ysBBPJT6nJ8

[1987_Lakers]

Better leader
Pure killer
Respected by peers (MJ called him 2nd best PG)
Played in real tough man's era
Took out Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtic's, and MJ's Bulls

https://media1.tenor.com/images/88a5d67e8fa6d034c1cbffc0026f7e95/tenor.gif?itemid=10355907

Respected by his peers so much that they decided to leave him off the dream team, lmao. Or maybe they realized he was an overrated chucker to be honest.

[RRR3]

Steph is one of the best clutch players in the league. Dame is technically the best clutch shooter in the entire league, yet his team was leading the Warriors for around 80% of the series and yet got swept. Iggy even said recently that they were down by 18 in every single game in that series while he averaged 37.5 coming from behind every single time. Literally the greatest 3rd quarter team of all time, pretty sure they had the record from biggest comebacks in 16 as they went through the season ever.

It's a shame rrretard3 is using the same joke that the biggest losers on ish are parroting. In 2015, he had a 3 to take a series to OT vs Pels, 3/4 shot vs Grizzlies, and the mean mug 3 on Delly when you knew that series was a wrap. Amazing that you bring Curry into a conversation that he has nothing to do with this topic. Or being that much of a mouth breathing moron that you think CP3 is more clutch than Curry.
Steph is not “one of the most clutch players in the league” you goddamn homer. He’s infamous for withering in big moments and statpadding when the team is up. I legit think Steph could finish top 10 ever but he is not clutch. He legit has only won because of injuries and Durant joining his team.

[1987_Lakers]

I will say this about this debate. CP0 is ALWAYS getting hurt. Sometimes it seems like it's an excuse for losing.

But Isiah Thomas? He once scored 25 points in a quarter on basically a broken ankle. CP never would have done this


https://youtu.be/ysBBPJT6nJ8

https://youtu.be/ysBBPJT6nJ8

Why couldn't he play like that prior to hurting his ankle?

game 1: 6 of 16
game 2: 5 of 14
game 3: 10 of 21
game 4: 2 of 7
game 5: 4 of 13

[hold this L]

Curry made the Finals 5 straight years as the favorite to win and yet, didn't win a single Finals MVP, pathetic.
Has won 3/5 championships. Again, the biggest loser in NBA history. Noone has ever lost more 2-0 or multiple game leads as much as CP3. It wouldn't be as bad if he played a different position. But he's the PG of the team, also known as the Point God.

[1987_Lakers]

Has won 3/5 championships. Again, the biggest loser in NBA history. Noone has ever lost more 2-0 or multiple game leads as much as CP3. It wouldn't be as bad if he played a different position. But he's the PG of the team, also known as the Point God.

Well, yea, having KD on your team will greatly increase your chances on winning. :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

Steph is not “one of the most clutch players in the league” you goddamn homer. He’s infamous for withering in big moments and statpadding when the team is up. I legit think Steph could finish top 10 ever but he is not clutch. He legit has only won because of injuries and Durant joining his team.

Honestly, I like Curry and have him as a top 5 PG ever, but it's funny seeing a Curry stan shitting on another player about not being clutch, not saying Curry isn't clutch, but "clutch" is one of the last things people think about when Curry's name comes up.

[ClipperRevival]

In case anyone is interested, here is a 26 minute video of Isiah getting in fights/shuffles. This was a real era where anything went. Isiah took no prisoners. Gave it out but also took it like a man. Flopping didn't fly in this era cause it was ignored.

https://youtu.be/7u3Xr-sVR5Y

[GoSpursGo1984]

I do not want to hear Chris Paul is better the. Isiah, Stockton, Nash maybe not even Payton or Westbrook. How can a guy who has accomplished so little(no mvps no titles) be ranked so high? You do not see Webber, McGrady or Dwight Howard ranked this high. Most overrated player in the NBA there is always an excuse for him.

[1987_Lakers]

In case anyone is interested, here is a 26 minute video of Isiah getting in fights/shuffles. This was a real era where anything went. Isiah took no prisoners. Gave it out but also took it like a man. Flopping didn't fly in this era cause it was ignored.

https://youtu.be/7u3Xr-sVR5Y

Here's a clip of a member from the dream team absolutely denying Isiah's entrance on the team...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0RGcMhGMk4&t

[ClipperRevival]

I will say this about this debate. CP0 is ALWAYS getting hurt. Sometimes it seems like it's an excuse for losing.

But Isiah Thomas? He once scored 25 points in a quarter on basically a broken ankle. CP never would have done this


https://youtu.be/ysBBPJT6nJ8

https://youtu.be/ysBBPJT6nJ8

https://media.tenor.com/images/12051dc873881719cfeb84f2c00c138a/tenor.gif

[ClipperRevival]

Here's a clip of a member from the dream team absolutely denying Isiah's entrance on the team...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0RGcMhGMk4&t

Confirming what I said. He could dish it out but also take it when it came to him. GOAT tier toughness. This wasn't no flopping era boys and girls. Had to bring your big boy pants.

[tontoz]

I do not want to hear Chris Paul is better the. Isiah, Stockton, Nash maybe not even Payton or Westbrook. How can a guy who has accomplished so little(no mvps no titles) be ranked so high? You do not see Webber, McGrady or Dwight Howard ranked this high. Most overrated player in the NBA there is always an excuse for him.


Maybe the 10 All-NBA teams and 9 All NBA defensive teams have something to do with it.
Maybe 11 All-Star games.
Maybe 9 years in the top 7 in MVP shares.
Maybe 6 years leading the league in steals per game.
Maybe 4 years leading the league in assists per game.
Maybe ranking 11th all time in NBA win shares.
Maybe ranking 5th all time in NBA Box +/-.
Maybe ranking 3rd all time in ORTG.
Maybe ranking 7th all time in VORP.

[1987_Lakers]

Confirming what I said. He could dish it out but also take it when it came to him. GOAT tier toughness. This wasn't no flopping era boys and girls. Had to bring your big boy pants.

Still wasn't good enough to make the dream team. :(

[tontoz]

Still wasn't good enough to make the dream team. :(

More importantly not good enough to make 3rd team All-NBA from age 26 until he retired.

[Proctor]

Isiah Thomas explains Chris Paul's "safe" approach


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS6p6kO3-Qo

Perfect explanation and echos what Paul realists have always said.

In before some mouthbreaking clown says Thomas is biased and wants to knock Paul to prop himself up. lmao

Anyone who pays attention can see this has always been true.

He lives inside his basketball floor "safe space" like no other player in NBA history. His goal is to play a very good, clean, efficient game and anything beyond that he is far too timid to try.

[SouBeachTalents]

For all the talk of his Finals averages in '90, look at his performances in the Pistons wins against the Bulls the series before in what was their toughest series

Game 1: 8/6 on 25% & 5 TO
Game 2: 10/7 on 22%
Game 5: 7/10 on 30%
Game 7: 21/8/11 on 41%

Do people really not believe a prime CP3 wouldn't be able to replicate this performance :lol My guess is they would've closed the series out WELL before a Game 7 was needed

[1987_Lakers]

For all the talk of his Finals averages in '90, look at his performances in the Pistons wins against the Bulls the series before in what was their toughest series

Game 1: 8/6 on 25% & 5 TO
Game 2: 10/7 on 22%
Game 5: 7/10 on 30%
Game 7: 21/8/11 on 41%

Do people really not believe a prime CP3 wouldn't be able to replicate this performance :lol My guess is they would've closed the series out WELL before a Game 7 was needed


Isiah vs Chicago from '88-'90

'88: 40% shooting
'89: 39% shooting
'90: 39.6% shooting

"But, but, he beat MJ 3 straight times". :oldlol:

Already covered bro. :cheers:

[ClipperRevival]

Isiah Thomas explains Chris Paul's "safe" approach


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS6p6kO3-Qo

Perfect explanation and echos what Paul realists have always said.

In before some mouthbreaking clown says Thomas is biased and wants to knock Paul to prop himself up. lmao

Anyone who pays attention can see this has always been true.

He lives inside his basketball floor "safe space" like no other player in NBA history. His goal is to play a very good, clean, efficient game and anything beyond that he is far too timid to try.

Have to disagree with these fine gentlemen here. It's more important to play it safe, not take risks, and protect your stats. You don't play to win, you play to protect your stats.

[1987_Lakers]

Have to disagree with these fine gentlemen here. It's more important to play it safe, not take risks, and protect your stats. You don't play to win, you play to protect your stats.

Id rather play it safe than risk it all and have numbers like this...

Game 1: 8/6 on 25% & 5 TO
Game 2: 10/7 on 22%
Game 5: 7/10 on 30%
Game 7: 21/8/11 on 41%

Luckily for Isiah, he had an all-time great defense bail him out. :oldlol:

[Proctor]

Have to disagree with these fine gentlemen here. It's more important to play it safe, not take risks, and protect your stats. You don't play to win, you play to protect your stats.

:lol

Thomas didn't play safe and went out and dropped 25 in a quarter. Paul would have never took the floor. Moreso, Paul didn't take the floor for a while over an injury this postseason that could have very well been phantom. :roll:

He is basketball hipsterism. As long as you drop 20 points, 10 assists and 0 turnovers, you're flawless and have zero accountability for whether your team won or lost. The apologists (who hide behind the term "purist" in his case) gobble it up like candy.

CP0 apologist handbook:

Take the floor and lose - "at least he gave it his all!"
Not take the floor and lose - "they would have won comfortably with him! 2018!"
Take the floor and play a solid, efficient, comfortable, relaxed game - "wow, he was flawless!"

[tontoz]

Have to disagree with these fine gentlemen here. It's more important to play it safe, not take risks, and protect your stats. You don't play to win, you play to protect your stats.

Isiah was safe on his couch at 32,33,34,35, and 36. Paul is still out here playing at 36.

Of course a guard in his mid-30s is going to pace himself. He doesn't have the energy to go balls to the wall. That is just the reality of getting older.

[Proctor]

Isiah was safe on his couch at 32,33,34,35, and 36. Paul is still out here playing at 36.

Of course a guard in his mid-30s is going to pace himself. He doesn't have the energy to go balls to the wall. That is just the reality of getting older.

He was pacing himself 5 years ago. He's the 2001 Honda Accord you drive around every day without hiccups but don't want to take you across the country.

[tontoz]

He was pacing himself 5 years ago. He's the 2001 Honda Accord you drive around every day without hiccups but don't want to take you across the country.

5 years ago he was on the Clippers. He scored 25 ppg (compared to 20 for Blake) and 10 assists and they lost in 7 games. In two of their losses Paul scored 27/28.

He was the leading scorer in the series.

[ClipperRevival]

Isiah was safe on his couch at 32,33,34,35, and 36. Paul is still out here playing at 36.

Of course a guard in his mid-30s is going to pace himself. He doesn't have the energy to go balls to the wall. That is just the reality of getting older.

So CP3 was 35 his entire career? Why did he PEAK at 25.5 PPG for a playoff series THIS year? Why didn't he try to score more during his peak/prime in the playoffs when the entire world knew he was capable of scoring more? Why did he hold back? What prevented him? Why did he have no memorable playoff explosions like Isiah?

https://media1.tenor.com/images/a131ad36f4ceeb73b3de22e6ed299616/tenor.gif?itemid=3915584

[ClipperRevival]

For all the talk of his Finals averages in '90, look at his performances in the Pistons wins against the Bulls the series before in what was their toughest series

Game 1: 8/6 on 25% & 5 TO
Game 2: 10/7 on 22%
Game 5: 7/10 on 30%
Game 7: 21/8/11 on 41%

Do people really not believe a prime CP3 wouldn't be able to replicate this performance :lol My guess is they would've closed the series out WELL before a Game 7 was needed

Nothing more objective than cherry picking some bad games. Kind of had higher expectations from a poster of your caliber.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/317740c8827dfbd708782051eebab117/tenor.gif?itemid=4823415

[ClipperRevival]

5 years ago he was on the Clippers. He scored 25 ppg (compared to 20 for Blake) and 10 assists and they lost in 7 games. In two of their losses Paul scored 27/28.

He was the leading scorer in the series.

Bet you you didn't watch a second of that series.

[tontoz]

So CP3 was 35 his entire career? Why did he PEAK at 25.5 PPG for a playoff series THIS year? Why didn't he try to score more during his peak/prime in the playoffs when the entire world knew he was capable of scoring more? Why did he hold back? What prevented him? Why did he have no memorable playoff explosions like Isiah?

https://media1.tenor.com/images/a131ad36f4ceeb73b3de22e6ed299616/tenor.gif?itemid=3915584

How many times did Isiah average over 25 ppg for a series? Not many and certainly not against defenders like Holiday.

It is hard to average 25 while also being the primary playmaker against a good team. Their playoff scoring averages are the same.

[RRR3]

Honestly, I like Curry and have him as a top 5 PG ever, but it's funny seeing a Curry stan shitting on another player about not being clutch, not saying Curry isn't clutch, but "clutch" is one of the last things people think about when Curry's name comes up.
Steph is legit the best offensive player ever but he isn’t clutch at all. He gets scared in tense moments.

[tontoz]

Bet you you didn't watch a second of that series.

It was a good series so i did watch some of it, just like i watched the first round this year. Certainly i am not going to remember a lot about a first round series 5 years ago from teams i don't follow.

But that is irrelevant. It is relevant that Paul was the leading scorer in the series given that you guys are claiming that he didn't score enough. He was the teams leading scorer by 5 ppg.

[ClipperRevival]

How many times did Isiah average over 25 ppg for a series? Not many and certainly not against defenders like Holiday.

It is hard to average 25 while also being the primary playmaker against a good team.

Please stick to the topic. We know Isiah had offensive explosions higher than CP3 in the playoffs. So I ask you again, why didn't CP3 do it? Why did he hold back in his prime?

[RRR3]

Please stick to the topic. We know Isiah had offensive explosions higher than CP3 in the playoffs. So I ask you again, why didn't CP3 do it? Why did he hold back in his prime?
LeBron>Kobe then right. Higher offensive explosions in the playoffs.

[ClipperRevival]

It was a good series so i did watch some of it, just like i watched the first round this year. Certainly i am not going to remember a lot about a first round series 5 years ago from teams i don't follow.

But that is irrelevant. It is relevant that Paul was the leading scorer in the series given that you guys are claiming that he didn't score enough. He was the teams leading scorer by 5 ppg.

That's the problem with a lot of fans. All they do is check bball ref and/or the stat sheet. A guy can put up a good box score and not be impactful and another can have a bad box score but impact the game. CP3 did a lot of deferring when it mattered most. So his efficiency stats were unaffected. But he didn't take RISKS to try to win. That's why that boy lost 4 2-0 leads. He refuses to stop the bleeding.

[tontoz]

Please stick to the topic. We know Isiah had offensive explosions higher than CP3 in the playoffs. So I ask you again, why didn't CP3 do it? Why did he hold back in his prime?

They both averaged just over 20 ppg in the playoffs for their careers. Your double standards are comical.

Why did Isiah wet the bed so often in the playoffs, forcing his team to pick up his slack?

[tontoz]

That's the problem with a lot of fans. All they do is check bball ref and/or the stat sheet. A guy can put up a good box score and not be impactful and another can have a bad box score but impact the game. CP3 did a lot of deferring when it mattered most. So his efficiency stats were unaffected. But he didn't take RISKS to try to win. That's why that boy lost 4 2-0 leads. He refuses to stop the bleeding.


During the regular season Blake averaged 21.6 ppg and Paul averaged 18.1.

In the playoffs against the Jazz Paul averaged 25 ppg and Blake averaged 20.

Paul scored almost 40% more than his regular season average but somehow Paul is playing it safe. :facepalm

[RRR3]

They both averaged just over 20 ppg in the playoffs for their careers. Your double standards are comical.

Why did Isiah wet the bed so often in the playoffs, forcing his team to pick up his slack?
Notice the only idiots who say Isiah>CP3 are people who have a vested interest in maintaining that rings determine who’s a better player (i.e. MJ and Kobe stans). For what it’s worth I have MJ>LeBron, but it’s not insane to say LeBron is GOAT. Kobe versus LeBron is something only retards argue.

[RRR3]

During the regular season Blake averaged 21.6 ppg and Paul averaged 18.1.

In the playoffs against the Jazz Paul averaged 25 ppg and Blake averaged 20.

But somehow Paul is playing it safe. :facepalm
Flake legit cost CP3 so many series. You want to talk a choker, it’s Flake.

[ClipperRevival]

During the regular season Blake averaged 21.6 ppg and Paul averaged 18.1.

In the playoffs against the Jazz Paul averaged 25 ppg and Blake averaged 20.

But somehow Paul is playing it safe. :facepalm

This fool thinks games are played on paper. LOL.

https://media.tenor.com/images/f4f4385e30fdad96ec1813991a8e1de4/tenor.gif

[tontoz]

This fool thinks games are played on paper. LOL.

https://media.tenor.com/images/f4f4385e30fdad96ec1813991a8e1de4/tenor.gif

You are literally asking me why Paul didn't look to score more aggressively in the playoffs. When i point out a series where he did exactly that all of a sudden the stats don't matter.

:facepalm

[RRR3]

You are literally asking me why Paul didn't look to score more aggressively in the playoffs. When i point out a series where he did exactly that all of a sudden the stats don't matter.

:facepalm
Rrrrrangz doe. Isiah had dat killah instink doe! Hand down? MAN DOWN! Cold blooded assassin gene ice cold killah mamba mentality assassin snipa DEADLY LETHAL TIGER BLOOD! The WILL TO WIN! MADE EM WHEN THEY COUNT!

[ClipperRevival]

We can literally do this until eternity. If you think CP3 Is better, I have no issues with that. Like I said, in a VACUUM, he was probably the slightly better player because he was a GOAT tier defender at the PG position. But I know both their mental make upS and if my life depended on winning a 7 game series and I had to pick either one to lead my team, I take Isiah. That guy isn't looking for a short way out but going right at the bully. Got to have that type of mentality as a leader.

[ClipperRevival]

You are literally asking me why Paul didn't look to score more aggressively in the playoffs. When i point out a series where he did exactly that all of a sudden the stats don't matter.

:facepalm

Well, yeah, that was one example and that's cool but he still peaked as a scorer this year against Denver. OK, no more. This is pointless.

[1987_Lakers]

Rrrrrangz doe. Isiah had dat killah instink doe! Hand down? MAN DOWN! Cold blooded assassin gene ice cold killah mamba mentality assassin snipa DEADLY LETHAL TIGER BLOOD! The WILL TO WIN! MADE EM WHEN THEY COUNT!

:oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

Rrrrrangz doe. Isiah had dat killah instink doe! Hand down? MAN DOWN! Cold blooded assassin gene ice cold killah mamba mentality assassin snipa DEADLY LETHAL TIGER BLOOD! The WILL TO WIN! MADE EM WHEN THEY COUNT!

I bet you do don't get after ANYTHING in life, whether physical or mental. Why do I assume this? Because those are usually the people who discredit the importance of mental fortitude/toughness in anything in life.

[RRR3]

i bet you do don't get after anything in life, whether physical or mental. Why do i assume this? Because those are usually the people who discredit the importance of mental fortitude/toughness in anything in life.
took over when it mattered! Alpa! Statz dont matta all bout how it make you feel doe!

[tontoz]

We can literally do this until eternity. If you think CP3 Is better, I have no issues with that. Like I said, in a VACUUM, he was probably the slightly better player because he was a GOAT tier defender at the PG position. But I know both their mental make upS and if my life depended on winning a 7 game series and I had to pick either one to lead my team, I take Isiah. That guy isn't looking for a short way out but going right at the bully. Got to have that type of mentality as a leader.


Isiah's mental makeup wouldn't have meant squat without a stacked team behind him.

How did Isiah do after their title years when their team wasn't as strong? Where was that takeover ability in the '91 and '92 playoffs when his team really needed him to step up his scoring?

[bizil]

We can literally do this until eternity. If you think CP3 Is better, I have no issues with that. Like I said, in a VACUUM, he was probably the slightly better player because he was a GOAT tier defender at the PG position. But I know both their mental make upS and if my life depended on winning a 7 game series and I had to pick either one to lead my team, I take Isiah. That guy isn't looking for a short way out but going right at the bully. Got to have that type of mentality as a leader.

Great points! When you combine passing, defense, and scoring as package, CP3 is the best PG of all time. GP and Frazier are in that mix as well. BUT if we are talking scoring and passing as a package, u gotta take Zeke. Don't have to think twice about it. MAINLY due to Zeke's stage presence scoring the rock. CP3 has the scoring ability damn near on par with Zeke. BUT not the stage presence. So peak-prime wise, I'm taking Zeke. What separates Magic and Isiah is the fact they were TRUE pass first PG's at heart. BUT could turn into alpha dog scorers and TOTALLY dominate games. When it was time OR when they damn well felt like it. CP3 has that type of ability BUT not on the level of Magic and Zeke. Zeke's was QUICKER to flip his dominant scoring side when it's needed. And he did it MORE CONSISTENTLY!

[ClipperRevival]

Isiah's mental makeup wouldn't have meant squat without a stacked team behind him.

How did Isiah do after their title years when their team wasn't as strong? Where was that takeover ability in the '91 and '92 playoffs when his team really needed him to step up his scoring?

Cool bro. If you think the right leader can't mold a team and change the entire approach/mentality of a team/organization, all power to ya. Isiah WAS the culture. He instituted his toughness into the team and everyone followed suit. Now this sh*t can't be measured into stats so why bother discussing further. I guess maybe we can measure success in rings and winning. But Isiah overrated doe.

[tontoz]

Cool bro. If you think the right leader can't mold a team and change the entire approach/mentality of a team/organization, all power to ya. Isiah WAS the culture. He instituted his toughness into the team and everyone followed suit. Now this sh*t can't be measured into stats so why bother discussing further. I guess maybe we can measure success in rings and winning. But Isiah overrated doe.

Pretty sure Rodman/Mahorn/Laimbeer would have been tough regardless of who their pg was. :oldlol:

Rodman was making All-NBA defensive teams without Isiah. Leading the league in rebounding without Isiah.

[red1]

this is a disrespectful thread.


trae young right now is better than cp0.


please dont compare cp0 to the GOAT pointguard.

[RRR3]

LeBron>Kobe then right. Higher offensive explosions in the playoffs.
Clipper revival? Why you ducking this, fella? Afraid of being exposed as an inconsistent troll?

[RRR3]

this is a disrespectful thread.


trae young right now is better than cp0.


please dont compare cp0 to the GOAT pointguard.

Lmao at Isiah being the GOAT anything

[red1]

Lmao at Isiah being the GOAT anything

his legacy is boosted by making baldan his personal towel boy.


was boosted even further being involved with the GOAT franchise's founding.

[DMAVS41]

Isiah's mental makeup wouldn't have meant squat without a stacked team behind him.

How did Isiah do after their title years when their team wasn't as strong? Where was that takeover ability in the '91 and '92 playoffs when his team really needed him to step up his scoring?

Maybe, maybe not.

You could flip that around and say CP3 going ghost, melting down, and being hurt all the time would prevent even stacked teams from winning.

The Rockets team in 18 fit every metric of a title winning team...and they likely win if Paul is there, but he couldn't hold up long enough in the playoffs...we've been over the Clipper meltdowns...and now you have a game 4 shitshow that likely cost the Suns a title.

It has to matter what guys actually do...it is a reflection of how good at basketball they actually are...and I think that is the disconnect on here about winning vs impact. Yes, it isn't as easy as ring counting and context / nuance is needed...I've been on that train since joining here...however, we also shouldn't just ignore what guys do on the court and we shortchange some of the true legends that did amazing shit if we always blame circumstances when an all-time great fails to win.

Take Giannis in game 6....what if he just dropped 44 and missed a few more shots or free throws and the Bucks lose...and then lose the series. Of course it wouldn't be "his fault", but that version of Giannis isn't as good as the one we just witnessed. Would it be a huge difference? No, but the margins are thin on this stuff and I truly believe that it has to matter that Giannis just played one of the best Finals games ever vs playing just 5% worse and losing.

And with Paul...I just think his fans always give him a pass and want to place him on certain tiers without him doing the shit those other guys actually did.

Paul is one of the best points ever and one of the best players ever, but we also shouldn't ignore what actually happened in his career (not saying you do this) because his stats are great and he's highly skilled.

[red1]

the 12-year old current version of trae young is better than cp0.



cp0 is an overrated flopping POS and hamtaro should be here to face the trolling.

[RRR3]

Maybe, maybe not.

You could flip that around and say CP3 going ghost, melting down, and being hurt all the time would prevent even stacked teams from winning.

The Rockets team in 18 fit every metric of a title winning team...and they likely win if Paul is there, but he couldn't hold up long enough in the playoffs...we've been over the Clipper meltdowns...and now you have a game 4 shitshow that likely cost the Suns a title.

It has to matter what guys actually do...it is a reflection of how good at basketball they actually are...and I think that is the disconnect on here about winning vs impact. Yes, it isn't as easy as ring counting and context / nuance is needed...I've been on that train since joining here...however, we also shouldn't just ignore what guys do on the court and we shortchange some of the true legends that did amazing shit if we always blame circumstances when an all-time great fails to win.

Take Giannis in game 6....what if he just dropped 44 and missed a few more shots or free throws and the Bucks lose...and then lose the series. Of course it wouldn't be "his fault", but that version of Giannis isn't as good as the one we just witnessed. Would it be a huge difference? No, but the margins are thin on this stuff and I truly believe that it has to matter that Giannis just played one of the best Finals games ever vs playing just 5% worse and losing.

And with Paul...I just think his fans always give him a pass and want to place him on certain tiers without him doing the shit those other guys actually did.

Paul is one of the best points ever and one of the best players ever, but we also shouldn't ignore what actually happened in his career (not saying you do this) because his stats are great and he's highly skilled.
We’re comparing him to Isiah Thomas not LeBron lmao

[DMAVS41]

We’re comparing him to Isiah Thomas not LeBron lmao

I know. I'm just talking in general.

I've had Paul over Thomas for at least a couple years now, but my point is that a player actually needs to do shit...and I think Paul gets a pass.

Take this example, lets say that Malcom Brogdon was on the Suns instead of Paul...and Brogdon puts up 21/5/7 and plays well consistently. He doesn't have the awful game 4 like Paul did and the Suns win in 5. I'm not saying Brogdon would have done that, but just using it as an example...lets say that actually happened.

What would everyone here say...everyone would say...CP3 in place of Brogdon and the Suns win as well...so it means nothing....and especially Paul fans want to grant him winning in place of all these other players. And I just don't think that is honestly very fair for a guy with the track record of Paul...and we actually live in the universe in which Paul didn't win. He did come up so small in that pivotal game 4 to take control of the series where just a halfway decent game likely gets the Suns a title.

My point is that just granting players titles and winning in big games and series is a lot easier on paper than it is in reality...actually doing shit has to matter.

[bizil]

I think most of us agree Isiah vs. CP3 in a peak-prime debate is close. Hell Isiah is THE LEGEND CP3 is most compared to. So for me, it comes down to CP3's edge in defense vs. Isiah's ability to flip the switch and turn into a dominant scorer. FOR ME, I gotta go with Zeke. NOT SAYING CP3 can't flip the switch in general. BECAUSE he can. BUT not like Zeke could! Isiah could be like a mix of Stockton and AI! Quintessential pass first floor general like Stockton. BUT can flip the switch and dominate games scoring like AI!

[tontoz]

Just got done watching the game and I have to question what possessed OP to make this thread. Paul scored 9 of his teams 21 points in the 4th quarter. Several times he set guys up for good looks which they missed. How is that a choke?

The Suns were out rebounded by 16. They shot 6-25 from 3. Giannis shot 17-19 from the foul line. That wasn't a game that Paul choked away. The Suns just got outplayed.

[RRR3]

Just got done watching the game and I have to question what possessed OP to make this thread. Paul scored 9 of his teams 21 points in the 4th quarter. Several times he set guys up for good looks which they missed. How is that a choke?

The Suns were out rebounded by 16. They shot 6-25 from 3. Giannis shot 17-19 from the foul line. That wasn't a game that Paul choked away. The Suns just got outplayed.
Obviously the guy who scores 16 PPG should have scored more than 9 points in a quarter!

[SouBeachTalents]

Just got done watching the game and I have to question what possessed OP to make this thread. Paul scored 9 of his teams 21 points in the 4th quarter. Several times he set guys up for good looks which they missed. How is that a choke?

The Suns were out rebounded by 16. They shot 6-25 from 3. Giannis shot 17-19 from the foul line. That wasn't a game that Paul choked away. The Suns just got outplayed.
Not to mention Booker was horrendous and Giannis dropped 50 points :lol

[RRR3]

Something I thought of: it’s always agreed that Steve Nash and John Stockton could have scored more than they did, much like CP3. So why is CP3 the only one of the 3 who gets criticized for it?

[DMAVS41]

Something I thought of: it’s always agreed that Steve Nash and John Stockton could have scored more than they did, much like CP3. So why is CP3 the only one of the 3 who gets criticized for it?

I agree that they all should have tried to take over a bit more...certainly Nash and Paul.

The reason? Paul fans argue pretty vehemently to place him in elite company and will say things like he was a near flawless basketball player...etc.

I don't see many Nash fans or anyone making similar claims.

[tontoz]

Obviously the guy who scores 16 PPG should have scored more than 9 points in a quarter!


Good point 16 in the regular season. Stepped up to 22 ppg in the Finals with a 62% TS but somehow he choked.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/sucks8.jpg

[DMAVS41]

Good point 16 in the regular season. Stepped up to 22 ppg in the Finals with a 62% TS but somehow he choked.


The word choking always muddies the waters, but I think the 22 on solid efficiency matters...but doesn't capture the full reality of the series. His game 4 needs to be front and center in any fair evaluation of what went down.

[RRR3]

I agree that they all should have tried to take over a bit more...certainly Nash and Paul.

The reason? Paul fans argue pretty vehemently to place him in elite company and will say things like he was a near flawless basketball player...etc.

I don't see many Nash fans or anyone making similar claims.
I don’t see any CP3 fans ranking him much higher than top 20ish which is close enough to where Nash and Stockton are generally ranked. Stockton is almost always top 30 and I’ve seen a very detailed list with Nash 19th. When people say he’s flawless they mean there’s no skill he’s not proficient in, at least considering his size. Aggressiveness isn’t a skill it’s a character trait.

[RRR3]

The word choking always muddies the waters, but I think the 22 on solid efficiency matters...but doesn't capture the full reality of the series. His game 4 needs to be front and center in any fair evaluation of what went down.
Sure he had a bad game but he’s also 36. Not sure why he’s being held to LeBron standards here. Booker was equally bad yesterday, hell considering how awful his defense is every game you could argue he was worse. If Booker is even solid yesterday there’s a game 7.

[DMAVS41]

I don’t see any CP3 fans ranking him much higher than top 20ish which is close enough to where Nash and Stockton are generally ranked. Stockton is almost always top 30 and I’ve seen a very detailed list with Nash 19th.

I think both Nash and Paul that high is wrong, but I haven't seen Nash fans really argue about that.

Regardless, on here, Paul takes criticism because of his fans...and probably all the flopping and meltdowns as well. He likely gets more hate than he deserves in terms of his basketball play, but his flopping was really bad for a long time. Not hard to understand why that annoyed fans...

[ImKobe]

The word choking always muddies the waters, but I think the 22 on solid efficiency matters...but doesn't capture the full reality of the series. His game 4 needs to be front and center in any fair evaluation of what went down.

Yup. Bucks' defensive strategy was to defend the paint and the 3-PT line (they adjusted & put Jrue on Booker and lived with CP3's shooting), CP3 had a wide open FT line jumper whenever he wanted so his numbers aren't all that impressive. Obviously he's going to play more minutes/get more touches in the Finals so his stats are going to be better from that alone. The glaring issue with Paul in this series was that he couldn't get to the FT line apart from the 1st 2 games. 7 FTA from Games 3-6 with 0 FTA in Games 4 and 5 when we know he's been able to flop his way there all year. Another thing is his turnovers. We know he's usually a "point god" but averaged 8.2 ast to 3.5 TO this series which is worse than it actually looks because he had some killer turnovers

[RRR3]

Legit thought LeBron was the only 36 year old not allowed to have a bad game ever but apparently CP3 is too despite everyone agreeing LeBron is easily superior :wtf:

[DMAVS41]

Booker was equally bad yesterday, hell considering how awful his defense is every game you could argue he was worse. If Booker is even solid yesterday there’s a game 7.

I agree, but what does that have to do with Paul?

Holiday was atrocious last night and Giannis found a way. I don't think asking Paul not to play horribly in game 4 is too much when Booker is going off.

[RRR3]

I agree, but what does that have to do with Paul?

Holiday was atrocious last night and Giannis found a way. I don't think asking Paul not to play horribly in game 4 is too much when Booker is going off.
Giannis is quite a bit better than current CP3 lmao. Why are we holding them to equal standards?

[DMAVS41]

Giannis is quite a bit better than current CP3 lmao. Why are we holding them to equal standards?

So, just to be clear...

Asking Paul not to play a dreadful game 4...just be halfway decent...is the same thing in your view as asking Giannis to get 50 last night and dominate defenisvely?

[RRR3]

So, just to be clear...

Asking Paul not to play a dreadful game 4...just be halfway decent...is the same thing in your view as asking Giannis to get 50 last night and dominate defenisvely?
Was responding to you saying Giannis “found a way” with a terrible game from Holiday

[DMAVS41]

Was responding to you saying Giannis “found a way” with a terrible game from Holiday

Right...

So it isn't the same standard at all when the "found a way" from Paul in game 4 would have been to not play a terrible game whereas Giannis had to play one of the best finals games ever.

I don't see how that is equal standards at all.

[HunterSThompson]

Isiah ain't winning any titles in CP3's place though

thats like saying bill russell isn't winning in place of anyone today. the game changes/evolves. this isn't about current skill. its about their accomplishments for their era. isiah should be ranked above paul all time even if CP0 could beat zeke 1 on 1 or play better in 2021

[Axe]

Isiah had a 50 point game in the finals as well

[Kings2024Champs]

Of course cp3 isnt better.. I mean Thomas made MJ his female dog and jorbald had to wait til all the good 80s teams got old to finally win in the watered down 90s