Where Do You HONESTLY Rank Giannis Now?

[Naero]

We've had multiple threads mooting this recently, but I'd like to collect feedback on a poll to establish ISH's consensus.

At the tender age of 26, he's already won every treasurable accolade: two-regular season MVPs, a DPOY, and now he's added championship hardware to the trove.

Not only that; he's finally established himself as an elite playoffs-performer. He just capped off a postseason for the ages, culminating in a Finals where he averaged a superefficient 35.2 PPG in addition to 13.2 RPG, 5 APG, and iconically elite defense.

His career is far from over, but he's already set the foundation for his legacy; only time will tell how he'll continue building on it.

All in all, where do you honestly rank him at this point in time, and why? What notable players do you believe he just surpassed?

[RRR3]

He hasn’t played long enough for me to give him a ranking I’m comfortable with. I’d rather say where I think he’ll end up. I can see him breaking into the top 10 and I think he’s definitely gonna be top 20.

[3ba11]

#12 all-time already.. ahead of team-hoppers lebron and KD

[RRR3]

#12 all-time already.. ahead of team-hoppers lebron and KD
He literally almost lost to KD when KD was playing 1 on 5 lmao

[Lebron23]

#12 all-time already.. ahead of team-hoppers lebron and KD

I wish you suffer a major heart attack in your mom's basement. Just a terrible troll.

[RRR3]

I wish you suffer a major heart attack in your mom's basement. Just a terrible troll.
Whoa too far. Stop that.

[3ba11]

He literally almost lost to KD when KD was playing 1 on 5 lmao


Giannis learned to operate closer to the basket and let the perimeter guys play to capacity on the perimeter - so he knows how to get the maximum out of perimeter players, which was part of his organic learning curve

unfortunately, Lebron's super-teams from 11-16' were so unfair, that KD had to team-up with Curry/Klay to overcome them - he didn't get to finish climbing the organic learning curve, so he only knows how to team-hop and doesn't know how to WIN (organic).

Since Giannis climbed the organic learning curve and learned to WIN (organic), he's superior to anyone that only knows how to team-hop (KD/Lebron)

[Lebron23]

Whoa too far. Stop that.

Dude is a garbage poster. The quality of posting in this forum is going to improve if he is gone.

[Lebron23]

0n topic top 18-20

[3ba11]

0n topic top 18-20


No he's better than Lebron and KD because they don't know how to win - they only know how to team-hop - that's the historical record.

so go ahead and make up your own truth, but the historical record will remain

[Phoenix]

Giannis learned to operate closer to the basket and let the perimeter guys play to capacity on the perimeter - so he knows how to get the maximum out of perimeter players, which was part of his organic learning curve

unfortunately, Lebron's super-teams from 11-16' were so unfair, that KD had to team-up with Curry/Klay to overcome them - he didn't get to finish climbing the organic learning curve, so he only knows how to team-hop and doesn't know how to WIN (organic).

Since Giannis climbed the organic learning curve and learned to WIN (organic), he's superior to anyone that only knows how to team-hop (KD/Lebron)

Insightful. Can you tell us anything about 89 Pippen?

[Lebron23]

No he's better than Lebron and KD because they don't know how to win - they only know how to team-hop - that's the historical record.

so go ahead and make up your own truth, but the historical record will remain

You are an idiot if you believe that. LeBron is a 4x NBA MVP 4x finals MVP 17x NBA team. All time leading scorer in the playoffs, soon to be the all time leading scorer in the regular season.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Best big man of all time and the only players peaks who are clearly better are jordan, kawhi. Possibly LeBron but I prefer Giannis.

Kawhi's 2019 round 2 and 3 were better then giannis but his finals can hold up with any finals in history.

- goat block on ayton
- game winning alley oop fast break dunk
- multiple 40 point games
- 50 point closeout game

[Phoenix]

Ahead of Kawhi, that's for sure.

[MrFonzworth]

Whoa too far. Stop that.

Holy Christ you're a loser:roll::roll::roll:

Triggered about the basement I assume

[Akeem34TheDream]

Too early for legacy imo. Right now I think he is the 3rd best player after KD and Kawhi.

[RRR3]

Too early for legacy imo. Right now I think he is the 3rd best player after KD and Kawhi.
He’s arguably better than both of them in terms of overall impact.

[Gougou]

Easily top 20 I guess... 2x regular season MVP, DPOY, 1x FMVP, Ring, once Giannis finishes his career he might get into the top 10.

2nd best PF of all time, Duncan is the only one who accomplished more, but skill-wise Giannis is the best.

[Phoenix]

I dont want to rate him yet, especially because this forum doesnt have the capability to discuss these things with any degree of nuance. Let's just say though, there are guys we currently rank in the top 20 who have less accolades in 20 years than he's achieved in 8. Where do we rank someone like KG? Freak has same number of DPOY, double the MVP count, a ring and Finals MVP. Peak stats are better but eras and all. So who knows, this is more about sustained excellence at this point. The numbers will obviously be there and he's at worst got a couple more MVPs and another 7 or so 25/10/5 seasons ahead of him, all NBAs, etc.

[Akeem34TheDream]

He’s arguably better than both of them in terms of overall impact.

I dont think so.

[2much_knowledge]

Top 35 w/o analyzing. May be lower if i review the list.

But one thing i am not is a prisoner of the moment

I don't jump or forget legends who had years of consistency for a current player who had a nice playoff run


Doesn't work like that. He is on paste for top 15 that i can safely say

[tanibanana]

About 32th-34th...
He needs more All-NBA and All-Star to move up higher.
But as far as how his legacy will be, it will only get better no doubt as years pass by.
As for GOAT Power Forwards, he is arguably knocking inside the top-5 now.

[SATAN]

It's possible Giannis suffers a catastrophic injury and doesn't have the skills to back up his current "legacy" trajectory afterwards.

Not sure why people feel the need to make lists. Not a knock on OP obviously. It's just so subjective at the end of the day.

[Phoenix]

It's possible Giannis suffers a catastrophic injury and doesn't have the skills to back up his current "legacy" trajectory afterwards.

Not sure why people feel the need to make lists. Not a knock on OP obviously. It's just so subjective at the end of the day.

Yep, that's what the sporting community does. Every time someone does something of note we have to start analysing his/her place on some list that nobody can fukking agree on. Just let the guy play out his career so we have complete context. But it's our 'in the now' culture. Everything has to be analysed and contextualized in the present when legacies are something which requires time to build and properly evaluate.

Rank Giannis now compared to his peers in this era. Where he ranks against Duncan, Malone,Barkley, McHale, Dirk, KG etc etc or against other historical greats is a conversation we simply shouldn't be having yet, especially when it comes to a totally subjective list. We were doing this shit in the 80s/90s when people were arguing if MJ was better than Oscar, West,Magic and Bird. And we only had 30-40 years of data at that point. We have 70 years of NBA basketball now to review and what has amounted to several 'eras' based on the rules and regulations of the day.

[SouBeachTalents]

Yep, that's what the sporting community does. Every time someone does something of note we have to start analysing his/her place on some list that nobody can fukking agree on. Just let the guy play out his career so we have complete context. But it's our 'in the now' culture. Everything has to be analysed and contextualized in the present when legacies are something which requires time to build and properly evaluate.

Rank Giannis now compared to his peers in this era. Where he ranks against Duncan, Malone,Barkley, McHale, Dirk, KG etc etc or against other historical greats is a conversation we simply shouldn't be having yet, especially when it comes to a totally subjective list. We were doing this shit in the 80s/90s when people were arguing if MJ was better than Oscar, West,Magic and Bird. And we only had 30-40 years of data at that point. We have 70 years of NBA basketball now to review and what has amounted to several 'eras' based on the rules and regulations of the day.
Forget all the injuries, what adds to the absurdity of it all is if this dudes toes were literally one inch further back

https://static.sky.it/images/skysport/it/nba/2021/06/20/playoff-nba-kevin-durant-canestro-gara-7-overtime-video/durant_piedi_tiro_decisivo.jpg

None of these discussions are even being had :lol Giannis would legitimately still have the choker label to most fans

[nayte]

Forget all the injuries, what adds to the absurdity of it all is if this dudes toes were literally one inch further back

https://static.sky.it/images/skysport/it/nba/2021/06/20/playoff-nba-kevin-durant-canestro-gara-7-overtime-video/durant_piedi_tiro_decisivo.jpg

None of these discussions are even being had :lol Giannis would legitimately still have the choker label to most fans

This. While that was an all time best finals game ever a half an inch and all the Stan's for and against would have a different tune
Too add tho that is still one of the best game winning performances I have ever seen.

[Gohan]

This. While that was an all time best finals game ever a half an inch and all the Stan's for and against would have a different tune
Too add tho that is still one of the best game winning performances I have ever seen.

well if brook lopez would have shot the ball instead of holding it for a shot clock kid wouldn't of been in that position. you haters are hilarious giannis is the man

[HylianNightmare]

Gotta see how he retires but I assume top 30

[Naero]

Yep, that's what the sporting community does. Every time someone does something of note we have to start analysing his/her place on some list that nobody can fukking agree on. Just let the guy play out his career so we have complete context. But it's our 'in the now' culture. Everything has to be analysed and contextualized in the present when legacies are something which requires time to build and properly evaluate.

Rank Giannis now compared to his peers in this era. Where he ranks against Duncan, Malone,Barkley, McHale, Dirk, KG etc etc or against other historical greats is a conversation we simply shouldn't be having yet, especially when it comes to a totally subjective list. We were doing this shit in the 80s/90s when people were arguing if MJ was better than Oscar, West,Magic and Bird. And we only had 30-40 years of data at that point. We have 70 years of NBA basketball now to review and what has amounted to several 'eras' based on the rules and regulations of the day.

I mostly agree. I just personally find it interesting where the general public ranks ATGs at different junctures of their careers, especially for later retrospection; I would’ve liked to know where they pegged Kobe on an all-time scale before his 2008-10 run, for example.

Problem is that most don’t make extensive all-time lists. The average fan doesn’t seem to dive into rankings beyond the top fifteen at best, and everything beyond that gets nebulous fast. If you’re beyond the top twenty-five (like Giannis, IMO), you become nearly unrankable because there’s not really a consensus that deep in.

I’ve admittedly only crystallized a top twenty. I just have a vague order of ATGs in the 20-30 range—Dwayne Wade, Isiah Thomas, Kevin Durant, Dirk Nowitzki, Clyde Drexler, and so forth—and because I’m not ready to rank Giannis over most of them yet, I have him on the lower end of that bracket (top thirty).

It’ll be hard to pinpoint Giannis’s exact rank until he enters the top fifteen. Even then, we’ll likely need to wait until the twilight of his career for recency bias to fade before we can judge him objectively.

I just felt Giannis became rankable enough now that he has every major accolade and has probably already shown us his peak. But that’s turning out to be moot because the fact is that he still ranks too low to agree on precisely where.

[HunterSThompson]

assuming he plays out his career and makes like 6-7 more allstar games/all nbas and never wins another award/title

#1 Jordan
#2 Kareem
#3 Russell
#4 Wilt
#5 Kobe
#6 Duncan
#7 Magic
#8 Bird
#9 Shaq
#10 Lebron
#11 Hakeem
#12 Durant
#13 Moses
#14 Dr J
#15 West
#16 Oscar
#17 Dirk
#18 Garnett
#19 Robinson
#20 Wade
#21 Giannis
#22 Curry
#23 Karl/stockton ( same player basically. one without the other is useless )
#24 Barkley
#25 Zeke

[K Xerxes]

Forget all the injuries, what adds to the absurdity of it all is if this dudes toes were literally one inch further back

https://static.sky.it/images/skysport/it/nba/2021/06/20/playoff-nba-kevin-durant-canestro-gara-7-overtime-video/durant_piedi_tiro_decisivo.jpg

None of these discussions are even being had :lol Giannis would legitimately still have the choker label to most fans

You do realise that if some shots in NBA history were off by an inch or two, you could make the same arguments about a number of players in huge close games…

Such nonsense. What happened has happened.

[WhiteKyrie]

Top 35. Just below Kawhi

[Rudeboy3]

top 20

[ShawkFactory]

I’ll need next year to fully assess. He seemed to have figured some things out but I’m not sure if it was because the Suns are young and weak or because he truly entered that all time great level. Right now I don’t think I’d take someone like Nash over him. But just a month and a half ago I was commenting on how even though the Bucks won, KD was the best player on the floor so there’s that.

I need to see him continue to do it and that he’s truly closed the gap on some of his faults, and that it wasn’t just a hot series against a young soft team that luckily made it to where they were.

I don’t think what he did is any more impressive than what Wade did in 2006 and most put him in the 25ish range. But Wade didn’t have the MVPs to his name.

Right now I’ll say right around 30-35 with room to grow of course. As most others have said

[FKAri]

I’ll need next year to fully assess. He seemed to have figured some things out but I’m not sure if it was because the Suns are young and weak or because he truly entered that all time great level. Right now I don’t think I’d take someone like Nash over him. But just a month and a half ago I was commenting on how even though the Bucks won, KD was the best player on the floor so there’s that.

I need to see him continue to do it and that he’s truly closed the gap on some of his faults, and that it wasn’t just a hot series against a young soft team that luckily made it to where they were.

I don’t think what he did is any more impressive than what Wade did in 2006 and most put him in the 25ish range. But Wade didn’t have the MVPs to his name.

Right now I’ll say right around 30-35 with room to grow of course. As most others have said

I'd take McGrady over Stockton but I'd still rank Stockton higher. These lists are meaningless.

[ShawkFactory]

I'd take McGrady over Stockton but I'd still rank Stockton higher. These lists are meaningless.

Meh. McGrady is my favorite player of all time and at his peak few could match obviously.

But with Stockton you know what you’re getting every single day for 15+ years. Not even close to the case for McGrady

[ClipperRevival]

Voted top 30 based on resume right now.

But more interesting to me is HOW he seemed to elevate his play recently. And I'm probably going to mention some obvious things but the thing that sticks out most is that he plays like a true big now a lot more as the roll man in the P&R and this has allowed him to utilize his natural athleticism & size to roam in space and either get easy buckets towards the basket or have a mismatch near the basket and shooting a 5-8 footer over the defender down low. Obviously, in the past, he was their primary ball handler and NOT the roll man in the P&R. This action seems to have really freed him up to just let the talent flourish in space. Besides, he is just too tall and long to be a primary ball handler anyways. I fully expect this to be the norm. You can even argue Milwaukee would be better if he got a legit PG as Giannis might be the GOAT roll man big EVER in terms of a combo of height/quickness/explosion going towards the basket.

Another obvious thing is he seemed to give max effort on seemingly every play in the finals, which made him a dominant help defender. But don't think this level of effort is plausible long term.

He also seemed to be more effective on those 5-8 turn around jumpers. If he has that down going forward, which is not asking much, he just adds another dimension.

[Phoenix]

I mostly agree. I just personally find it interesting where the general public ranks ATGs at different junctures of their careers, especially for later retrospection; I would’ve liked to know where they pegged Kobe on an all-time scale before his 2008-10 run, for example.

Problem is that most don’t make extensive all-time lists. The average fan doesn’t seem to dive into rankings beyond the top fifteen at best, and everything beyond that gets nebulous fast. If you’re beyond the top twenty-five (like Giannis, IMO), you become nearly unrankable because there’s not really a consensus that deep in.

I’ve admittedly only crystallized a top twenty. I just have a vague order of ATGs in the 20-30 range—Dwayne Wade, Isiah Thomas, Kevin Durant, Dirk Nowitzki, Clyde Drexler, and so forth—and because I’m not ready to rank Giannis over most of them yet, I have him on the lower end of that bracket (top thirty).

It’ll be hard to pinpoint Giannis’s exact rank until he enters the top fifteen. Even then, we’ll likely need to wait until the twilight of his career for recency bias to fade before we can judge him objectively.

I just felt Giannis became rankable enough now that he has every major accolade and has probably already shown us his peak. But that’s turning out to be moot because the fact is that he still ranks too low to agree on precisely where.

Yes, as the rankings go on you really are getting in the more nitty-gritty so to speak. How do you rank Gary Payton vs Vince Carter, for example? Or Ray Allen vs Jason Kidd? I'm just using those names as examples, but you probably get my point.

I have a question about someone like Karl Malone now. Great longevity and consistency, put up great totals, but should we still be ranking him top 20? Should he be ranked over Dirk nowadays? If we want to throw out longevity and just focus on something like peak value and achievements, we tend to rank David Robinson between say 18 and....23? 25? Ignoring all I said above, why wouldn't Giannis be in that range at this point? He just had a playoff run better than anything Admiral did, has an extra MVP, same number of DPOY. I wont do the stat thing cause eras, but honestly......IIRC ESPN had him at #27 after last season. So if that ranking has any legitimacy, shouldn't he be knocking on top 20 by now? Like I hate saying....ok he's done this and done that so NOW his rank is this....I hate that shit. BUT.....If we play that game for a minute and forego weighing the totality of his career( because he's still got at least another decade I would assume), he's already done more things than a handful of people we typically see in the top 20.

I mean he just beat Durant heads up. Yes, the Nets were short-handed but the benefit of that is it actually evened the stakes to be more of a pick-em....and Giannis won that encounter. Now in a vacuum, KD is clearly a superior skill for skill player, and obviously a far more lethal scorer in terms of skillset. There's rarely anything especially graceful about the way Freak gets his 25-30........but he's still getting you 25-30. There's no bonus style points for how it's done. And contextually, key injuries aside, Freak's ring 'should' carry more weight than KD deciding to join Steph, Klay and Dray to destroy the league for a few seasons. So all that said, shouldn't they be in the same tier, at worst? And at least with them, playing in the same era affords us the luxury of a better comparison than what we do with some other players, ranking someone from 1980 to someone from 2010. I just don't see how that works, it's way too subjective.

That's the thing with the rankings, as time passes and more players come along we have to recontextualize the older players. After 70 years it's becoming impossible. Can you imagine someone in 2050 trying to create a top 50? Good luck.

[DJmicah]

Honestly i LOVE to see him win, but there is ALOT of recency bias. This reminds me a lot of kawhi when he won that ring in Toronto and was hyped to all hell. Even to the injury factor where both took good teams to the finals and won because of injuries to better teams. I know were in the moment right now but do we just completely forget the 2018-2020 playoffs losses to celtics raps and heat because of one great (arguably lucky) playoff run? Also when/if lakers warriors nets nuggets clippers 76ers etc. are all healthy do we really see the bucks winning it all? I think in kawhis case we see now that we may have over hyped him a little too much off of ONE great run in a year where top teams werent 100 percent. unfortunately i see the same think happening in this situation. If giannis and the bucks prove me wrong and win/make a finals again awesome i love to see it, but i dont think that this is gonna happen again without injuries. Consistency is what im looking for.

[Jasper]

If he quit right now on top I put him at top 25.
His body of work isn't impressive it is dominating.

Dominating players = super stars.
ie - IMO super stars is an over used term , but in Giannis case it fits him perfectly.

Now if I looked into my crystal ball and he wins 3 more chips and 2 more MVP's , I would certainly put him ahead of Duncan.
If Duncan in his prime , played one on one against Giannis (Giannis would kill him)

[hold this L]

28-30

Even if he never wins another DPOTY, MVP or championship, he will move down the list if he just continues to play as he is. Only reason he's 'only' at 28-30 is because he needs more years at a top level. That's all.

[dreamshake]

I wish you suffer a major heart attack in your mom's basement. Just a terrible troll.

Jeff needs to ban LeBron23. Total psychopath.

[red1]

he's amazing. son is too tall and athletic for the modern league.



I put him on the same tier or higher than kawhi. so top 25 - right in the mix with many legends.

[houston]

he top 40 for sure right now he need more all-star appearances stuff like that

[Gudo]

he's amazing. son is too tall and athletic for the modern league.



I put him on the same tier or higher than kawhi. so top 25 - right in the mix with many legends.

We should be thankful he is not a killer on midrange and the 3. Or if he even had a reliable post game. If that happens, it's game over for the league. He would be a monster unlike anything we have seen before.

[KingMambaFan]

Top 20

Will be Top 10 in the future

[Nike D'Antoni]

He likely breaks into the top 15 when his career is over. Just because he will likely win another ring and a few more MVPs. Maybe DPOY too.

[Jasper]

He likely breaks into the top 15 when his career is over. Just because he will likely win another ring and a few more MVPs. Maybe DPOY too.

he does that could be a top 10.... we will see

[Taurus]

Top 30 if we're being conservative, but he is climbing FAST

[John8204]

Top 30

21-25 for me is Barkley, CPIII, Shaq, Baylor, and KG

He should manage to hit the top twenty by the end of his career but unless he wins 3+ rings I can't put him top 15

[hold this L]

I voted top 30 then. I think top 25 now. He and Luka are the 2 that have top 10 potential.