Giannis - the Criticisms... addressed

[Pointguard]

His game is ugly.

Is this hater talk? Its the first time we get to see a near seven footer constantly soar to the basket? True he's no Amare Stoudamire in fluidity but he's a better blend of power and finess. His dribble is only matched by Durant for near seven footers. He was the first one to play PG full time. He didn't grow up playing ball but his improvements in handles is among the best I ever seen.

He's going harder to the hoop than even Westbrook, much less anybody else. No player dunks better or as frequently with their off hand. He's one of the few players you watch and his determination to get to the basket overwhelms defenses. There is a lot to watch that only he's doing.

He can't adapt.

He did have trouble with the wall. But Giannis didn't grow up being the best guy around. Wasn't doubled team much by the best players growing up. He played in the 2nd teir team in Greece and went straight to the NBA. His first time getting doubled by fast players was only like a few years ago. I remember the first time I was double teamed it was crazy. But that wall Giannis faced was nuts and he had to adapt on the fly. If Kidd did not have him play PG before it would have been much worse.

The hardest thing to do against great defenses is to get to the basket. He's always adapting as teams know where he wants to go but can't do anything about it.



He can't shoot foul shots.

This is true but he made them when they mattered most. Like I said earlier. I'm pretty sure most titles with key bigmen are won with bad shooting FT big men. Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Duncan. Robinson couldn't win until Duncan came along. Kareem was the only big good at the line who won multiple Championships. Lebron also shoots bad from the line. Its over estimated.


more to come...

[Naero]

Also, "He can't win without a three-point shot."

He just led his team to the title averaging 18.6% from three-point range. Is it truly a fatal weakness if it's superable enough for him to score 30.2 PPG on 60% TS?

It once was against the Raptors and Heat, granted. But now that he's improved his scoring skillset (a lot more low-post fadeaways and hooks recently) and learned to respond to the wall much more gracefully, it's no longer a magic-bullet defensive scheme.

With his current physique, he'll probably never be the same shooter he was as a spindly rookie, but that trade-off looks worthwhile overall with how unstoppably he can score in the paint.

[iamgine]

This "made it when mattered most" FT is really false narrative. He didn't make em in the game 7 Brooklyn series. He didn't make em in game 5 Suns series, arguably more important than game 6.

Also, he's done this when it didn't matter at all. Random regular season games he'll be shooting 9-10 FT, 17-21 FT.

There's really no reason to think of the game 6 finals FT performance as anything more than coincidence.

[RRR3]

His game is ugly.

Is this hater talk? Its the first time we get to see a near seven footer constantly soar to the basket? True he's no Amare Stoudamire in fluidity but he's a better blend of power and finess. His dribble is only matched by Durant for near seven footers. He was the first one to play PG full time. He didn't grow up playing ball but his improvements in handles is among the best I ever seen.

He's going harder to the hoop than even Westbrook, much less anybody else. No player dunks better or as frequently with their off hand. He's one of the few players you watch and his determination to get to the basket overwhelms defenses. There is a lot to watch that only he's doing.

He can't adapt.

He did have trouble with the wall. But Giannis didn't grow up being the best guy around. Wasn't doubled team much by the best players growing up. He played in the 2nd teir team in Greece and went straight to the NBA. His first time getting doubled by fast players was only like a few years ago. I remember the first time I was double teamed it was crazy. But that wall Giannis faced was nuts and he had to adapt on the fly. If Kidd did not have him play PG before it would have been much worse.

The hardest thing to do against great defenses is to get to the basket. He's always adapting as teams know where he wants to go but can't do anything about it.



He can't shoot foul shots.

This is true but he made them when they mattered most. Like I said earlier. I'm pretty sure most titles with key bigmen are won with bad shooting FT big men. Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Duncan. Robinson couldn't win until Duncan came along. Kareem was the only big good at the line who won multiple Championships. Lebron also shoots bad from the line. Its over estimated.


more to come...
Kareem was worse than LeBron at FTs....

[JohnMax]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CRl7LjQsbKU/

[SATAN]

He did have trouble with the wall.

Sorry if this is derailing the thread in a way but...I re-watched game 6 and was astonished how terrible the Suns game plan for Giannis was. He was getting to the rim whenever he wanted to and often letting them know he wanted to drive. It makes absolutely no sense to not apply the proven method.

[K Xerxes]

Sorry if this is derailing the thread in a way but...I re-watched game 6 and was astonished how terrible the Suns game plan for Giannis was. He was getting to the rim whenever he wanted to and often letting them know he wanted to drive. It makes absolutely no sense to not apply the proven method.

Not much the Suns can do with Ayton and only Crowder as a secondary defender. Walling him off requires at least 3 long and tough frontcourt players.

Second, Giannis can counter the wall by making midrange shots and running off the ball to establish deep position off the bat. Having said that, the best counter is if his team mates can make shots.

[Jasper]

Not much the Suns can do with Ayton and only Crowder as a secondary defender. Walling him off requires at least 3 long and tough frontcourt players.

Second, Giannis can counter the wall by making midrange shots and running off the ball to establish deep position off the bat. Having said that, the best counter is if his team mates can make shots.

Bucks at home - comfortable ,, players ready to receive a pass from Giannis to hit three's and get the crowd rocking...
A lot of Giannis's game is mechanical = hard work all of his career. Shows if you really want it , it can be done.
He hit like 16 of 18 free throws , and obviously his free throws are very mechanical - but repetition can generate efficiency.
Building a wall I laugh at , cause Giannis has a post and mid-range game now.... He takes what the defense gives him.
My criticism if you want to call it that , is that sometimes he doesn't in your face guard his man , because he does more weak side defense ,
maybe more so then Caldwell Jones did in the 70's/80's.

[Pointguard]

Kareem was worse than LeBron at FTs....

Not after he got a Free Throw coach in his like last nine years. Kareem back than was definitely closer to the middle of the pack than Lebron is now. So relatively speaking...

[Pointguard]

Bucks at home - comfortable ,, players ready to receive a pass from Giannis to hit three's and get the crowd rocking...
A lot of Giannis's game is mechanical = hard work all of his career. Shows if you really want it , it can be done.
He hit like 16 of 18 free throws , and obviously his free throws are very mechanical - but repetition can generate efficiency.
Building a wall I laugh at , cause Giannis has a post and mid-range game now.... He takes what the defense gives him.
My criticism if you want to call it that , is that sometimes he doesn't in your face guard his man , because he does more weak side defense ,
maybe more so then Caldwell Jones did in the 70's/80's.

Good Points!

[tontoz]

Building a wall I laugh at , cause Giannis has a post and mid-range game now.... He takes what the defense gives him.



Surprised when i saw this. In the postseason he shot 48% between 3-16 feet.

[Pointguard]

Also, "He can't win without a three-point shot."

He just led his team to the title averaging 18.6% from three-point range. Is it truly a fatal weakness if it's superable enough for him to score 30.2 PPG on 60% TS?

It once was against the Raptors and Heat, granted. But now that he's improved his scoring skillset (a lot more low-post fadeaways and hooks recently) and learned to respond to the wall much more gracefully, it's no longer a magic-bullet defensive scheme.

With his current physique, he'll probably never be the same shooter he was as a spindly rookie, but that trade-off looks worthwhile overall with how unstoppably he can score in the paint.

Good Points!

[fsvr54]

He dunks because no one chooses to actually put a body on his bitch ass.

Dribble? dude does nothing but travel

[nineiron]

His game is ugly.

Is this hater talk? Its the first time we get to see a near seven footer constantly soar to the basket? True he's no Amare Stoudamire in fluidity but he's a better blend of power and finess. His dribble is only matched by Durant for near seven footers. He was the first one to play PG full time. He didn't grow up playing ball but his improvements in handles is among the best I ever seen.

He's going harder to the hoop than even Westbrook, much less anybody else. No player dunks better or as frequently with their off hand. He's one of the few players you watch and his determination to get to the basket overwhelms defenses. There is a lot to watch that only he's doing.

He can't adapt.

He did have trouble with the wall. But Giannis didn't grow up being the best guy around. Wasn't doubled team much by the best players growing up. He played in the 2nd teir team in Greece and went straight to the NBA. His first time getting doubled by fast players was only like a few years ago. I remember the first time I was double teamed it was crazy. But that wall Giannis faced was nuts and he had to adapt on the fly. If Kidd did not have him play PG before it would have been much worse.

The hardest thing to do against great defenses is to get to the basket. He's always adapting as teams know where he wants to go but can't do anything about it.



He can't shoot foul shots.

This is true but he made them when they mattered most. Like I said earlier. I'm pretty sure most titles with key bigmen are won with bad shooting FT big men. Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Duncan. Robinson couldn't win until Duncan came along. Kareem was the only big good at the line who won multiple Championships. Lebron also shoots bad from the line. Its over estimated.


more to come...

Ben Simmons says hi

[bizil]

His game is ugly.

Is this hater talk? Its the first time we get to see a near seven footer constantly soar to the basket? True he's no Amare Stoudamire in fluidity but he's a better blend of power and finess. His dribble is only matched by Durant for near seven footers. He was the first one to play PG full time. He didn't grow up playing ball but his improvements in handles is among the best I ever seen.

He's going harder to the hoop than even Westbrook, much less anybody else. No player dunks better or as frequently with their off hand. He's one of the few players you watch and his determination to get to the basket overwhelms defenses. There is a lot to watch that only he's doing.

He can't adapt.

He did have trouble with the wall. But Giannis didn't grow up being the best guy around. Wasn't doubled team much by the best players growing up. He played in the 2nd teir team in Greece and went straight to the NBA. His first time getting doubled by fast players was only like a few years ago. I remember the first time I was double teamed it was crazy. But that wall Giannis faced was nuts and he had to adapt on the fly. If Kidd did not have him play PG before it would have been much worse.

The hardest thing to do against great defenses is to get to the basket. He's always adapting as teams know where he wants to go but can't do anything about it.



He can't shoot foul shots.

This is true but he made them when they mattered most. Like I said earlier. I'm pretty sure most titles with key bigmen are won with bad shooting FT big men. Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Duncan. Robinson couldn't win until Duncan came along. Kareem was the only big good at the line who won multiple Championships. Lebron also shoots bad from the line. Its over estimated.


more to come...


ABSOLUTELY!!!! I always thought Giannis caught too much heat! I get pointing out strengths and weakness in players for sure. BUT the main thing in hoops is NUMBERS AND RESULTS! The superstars get them different ways. When you are getting the numbers Giannis is getting AND winning MVPS, DPOY, and All Star MVP, you are obviously a superstar level player. So for me, it was MORE ABOUT getting the right pieces around Giannis. While he CONTINUED to improve . And FROM THERE the Bucks would be just fine.

BECAUSE in terms of scoring,passing, rebounding, and defense as a package, Giannis (or KG) is the BEST PF of all time! From there, he has the most positional versatility two way wise of all time! Since he can fill so many holes, he can be the LONE SUPERSTAR on a title team. And of course he will continue to work on elements of his game.

And when fools on TV were saying Middleton was their best player, I literally LOL! When teams load up on Giannis and he can't overpower all the time or hit his FT's, u need a Middleton in place. He has a very impressive scoring skillset. But Middleton ISN'T an alpha dog caliber scorer. It's kind of like Mariano Rivera. He's a CLOSER instead of starting pitcher for a reason. He can dominate games in short spurts. But ISN'T a dominant starting pitcher type. Giannis on the other hand is like Randy Johnson. A true dominant starter with a mean fastball. Capable of going the distance. BUT when he can't, the closer can some in to seal the deal. That's the best way to look at the Giannis-Middleton dynamic!

[ralph_i_el]

Giannis unveild some new counters and finesse moves in the short midrange, which basically completes his game as a big man in my eyes. I'm done criticizing Giannis. He proved me wrong.

[HylianNightmare]

He was still running from the FTs at the end which I found odd cause he had been hitting all game

[Pointguard]

ABSOLUTELY!!!! I always thought Giannis caught too much heat! I get pointing out strengths and weakness in players for sure. BUT the main thing in hoops is NUMBERS AND RESULTS! The superstars get them different ways. When you are getting the numbers Giannis is getting AND winning MVPS, DPOY, and All Star MVP, you are obviously a superstar level player. So for me, it was MORE ABOUT getting the right pieces around Giannis. While he CONTINUED to improve . And FROM THERE the Bucks would be just fine.

BECAUSE in terms of scoring,passing, rebounding, and defense as a package, Giannis (or KG) is the BEST PF of all time! From there, he has the most positional versatility two way wise of all time! Since he can fill so many holes, he can be the LONE SUPERSTAR on a title team. And of course he will continue to work on elements of his game.

And when fools on TV were saying Middleton was their best player, I literally LOL! When teams load up on Giannis and he can't overpower all the time or hit his FT's, u need a Middleton in place. He has a very impressive scoring skillset. But Middleton ISN'T an alpha dog caliber scorer. It's kind of like Mariano Rivera. He's a CLOSER instead of starting pitcher for a reason. He can dominate games in short spurts. But ISN'T a dominant starting pitcher type. Giannis on the other hand is like Randy Johnson. A true dominant starter with a mean fastball. Capable of going the distance. BUT when he can't, the closer can some in to seal the deal. That's the best way to look at the Giannis-Middleton dynamic!
Great use of metaphors to highlight your point. And yes he's Mr. versatility, with a punch. His instincts are crazy. The block on the lob was a case of just follow your gut. The timing on the chase down block. All the blocks in game 5 were dynamic. He also has one of the best defensive highlights in a finals I ever saw.

[Pointguard]

Ben Simmons says hi

Its a thin line. Determination is the biggest difference between them.

[j3lademaster]

His game is ugly.

I still hold to that. I don't enjoy watching him play, and I guess if not having a PERSONAL PREFERENCE towards the aesthetics of someone's game makes me a "hater"... fine. It's subjective, who cares? One of my top 5 favorite players to watch ever was Jcrossover, who was never even an allstar let alone MVP and DPOY. Jamal Tinsley was another fun one. Never won anything but fun to watch. As long as someone doesn't use aesthetics in a discussion of who's better why does it matter?


He can't adapt.

And this was true... until it wasn't. Giannis in 2019 and 2020 playoffs didn't adapt well. He did this year and won. Someone watching those playoffs 2 years ago and saying "wow when he figures it out... watch out!" isn't exactly Nostrodamus.


He can't shoot foul shots.

This is a valid point. I've never thought he couldn't win because like you said, Shaq can't shoot them but he won. I forgot where i saw it, but I remember reading a stat that showed Shaq shooting ft's passably well(not 17-19 well) when it counted. I'll probably look it up later. I have to admit this worried me a bit since points per possession is at an all time high due to the 3 point shot, which makes fouling a poor ft shooter an even better strategy than in Shaq's time. However Giannis is a better ft shooter than Shaq so that would more than offset that disadvantage.

[tontoz]

Funny thing is that for his career Giannis is 71.7% from the foul line in the regular season. He had 5 straight seasons shooting well over 70% from the line. Clearly he just has a mental issue to work through.

[j3lademaster]

Funny thing is that for his career Giannis is 71.7% from the foul line in the regular season. He had 5 straight seasons shooting well over 70% from the line. Clearly he just has a mental issue to work through.he's not a good free throw shooter but I always thought he was just good enough where "hackashaq" wasn't going to work on him.