Let's give an asterisk to every NBA champion, from 2021 to 1947

[iamgine]

2021 Milwaukee Bucks: Nets injuries let the Bucks cakewalk to the finals, and the Suns weren't real contenders and only made the finals cause of injuries to everyone they played.

2020 LA Lakers: Bubble ring. No crowds, no travel. Heat had injuries that made the finals a cakewalk.

2019 Toronto Raptors: Klay and KD both going down with injuries.

2018 Golden State Warriors: CP3 getting injured and the Rockets going 0-27 in game 7.

2017 Golden State Warriors: Warriors were down 20+ points before Kawhi went down with his injury.

2016 Cleveland Cavs: Draymond got suspended cause LeBron whined to the league, and Bogut went down with injury.

2015 Golden State Warriors: Kevin Love and Kyrie both were injured.

2014 San Antonio Spurs: Conveniently malfunctioning A/C forced LeBron to leave game 1 and deal with cramps.

2013 Miami Heat: Horribly weak East, Spurs missed insanely easy clutch free throws, and Ray Allen hit the shot of his life.

2012 Miami Heat: Lockout shortened season.

2011 Dallas Mavericks: MVP Derrick Rose tore his ACL and took the best team out of contention. Manu injured round 1 for Spurs.

2010 LA Lakers: Kendrick Perkins got injured.

2009 LA Lakers: Kevin Garnett got injured.

2008 Boston Celtics: Bailed out by refs against the Cavs and LeBron.

2007 San Antonio Spurs: Boris Diaw and Amare Stoudemire both got suspended for BS reasons.

2006 Miami Heat: Dwyane Wade FTs the entire series. Shot 25 FTs in game 5 alone.

2005 San Antonio Spurs: Lucked out that the Lakers totally imploded over the offseason and blew up and left the West wide open.

2004 Detroit Pistons: Karl Malone got injured.

2003 San Antonio Spurs: Played a 49 win Nets team in the finals. 2nd and 3rd best teams in the league had to play each other the series before, with the winner having to play Spurs after a grueling series.

2002 LA Lakers: Kings/Lakers. Refs. Need I say more?

2001 LA Lakers: Bailed out by the refs not calling Lakers fouls on AI in game 2, to even the series after Philly won game 1.

2000 LA Lakers: Refs bailed them out in game 7 vs Blazers, which resulted in the Blazers having to play differently and choke.

1999 San Antonio Spurs: Lockout shortened season.

1998 Chicago Bulls: Jordan pushed off.

1997 Chicago Bulls: Scottie Pippen got away with the most blatant goaltending ever, arguably worse than Jordan pushing off.

1996 Chicago Bulls: Gary Payton tore his calf muscle earlier in the playoffs and wasn't 100%. Locked down Jordan in the 3 games he guarded him.

1995 Houston Rockets: Jordan was rusty when he came back after being gone for 17 months. Full strength Bulls with Jordan all year wipe the floor.

1994 Houston Rockets: Jordan was playing baseball.

1993 Chicago Bulls: League clearly wanted the Bulls to threepeat and not lose. Charles Barkley injured his elbow in game 2 and was hobbled.

1992 Chicago Bulls: Magic Johnson forced to retire cause of HIV, and Larry Bird only played 45 games due to injuries that would force him to retire.

1991 Chicago Bulls: James Worthy got injured.

1990 Detroit Pistons: Scottie Pippen's migraines kept him from playing 100%.

1989 Detroit Pistons: Magic Johnson got injured 5 minutes into game 3 and was out for the series.

1988 LA Lakers: Isiah Thomas played the 4th quarter of game 6 with a swollen ankle, a poked eye, a cut on his face, and a broken finger. Was injured and not a factor in game 7.

1987 LA Lakers: Len Bias death, Celtics had multiple injuries that left them hobbled.

1986 Boston Celtics: Jordan broke his foot and was out 64 games. John Lucas was suspended for the Rockets or would have played in the finals. First season the backboard was lowered to what it is today (was lowered 6 inches).

1985 LA Lakers: Nearly half the teams in the league had major stars/players suffer major injuries. Pretty interesting read tbh. Lots of parallels with all the injuries this season.

1984 Boston Celtics: First year with expanded playoffs. Lucked out on one of the worst turnovers in NBA history to tie and then win game 2 after losing game 1. Larry Bird himself said the Celtics should have been swept. First year using new Spalding game balls.

1983 Philadelphia 76ers: 2nd best team in the league added the reigning MVP. Cowens injury for Bucks.

1982 LA Lakers: Celtics injury to Tiny Archibald led to 76ers winning in 7 games. First year with new rims across the league.

1981 Boston Celtics: 40-42 record Houston Rockets made the finals. Rudy Tomjanovich dealing with injuries played less than 20 minutes the entire series.

1980 LA Lakers: First season of the 3 point shot.

[iamgine]

1979 Seattle SuperSonics: Washington lost both their starting guards to injuries.

1978 Washington Bullets: MVP Bill Walton was injured at the end of the regular season, taking the best team in the league out of legit contention even though they still made it to the WCF.

1977 Portland Trailblazers: ABA merger season. New teams to beat up on and a talent influx across the league.

1976 Boston Celtics: Just read all these controversies that happened, especially in game 5. Lots of incompetent refs.

1975 Golden State Warriors: Celtics were screwed by the refs in the ECF with a -40 free throw difference vs the Bullets. Bulls coach Dick Motta refused to start Nate Thurmond against the Warriors even though he was clearly the better player than starting center Tom Boerwinkle, and would lose the series 4-3 cause of it.

1974 Boston Celtics: Bucks starting guard Lucius Allen was injured right before the series began, and SG Jon McGlocklin was hobbled dealing with an ankle injury during the series.

1973 New York Knicks: Beat Celtics in ECF in 7 games with Celtics star John Havlicek missing game 7, and apparently might have somehow played in a sling and shoot left handed in games 5 and 6 according to Wikipedia, due to an elbow or shoulder injury.

1972 LA Lakers: Willis Reed was out with a knee injury before the series began, Knicks big man Dave DeBusschere was forced into limited minutes due to an injury while guarding Wilt which led to no one left on the Knicks being able to content rebounds, and guard Earl Monroe was playing injured for the Knicks. Fun fact, Wilt broke his wrist in game 4 and still played game 5 posting a stat line of ****ing 24/29/8/8.

1971 Milwaukee Bucks: All-Star Bullets forward Gus Johnson was injured and only played in 2 games. Bullets were forced to start the series only 48 hours after they won game 7 on the ECF over the Knicks.

1970 New York Knicks: 3 seconds left and down 2, Jerry West hit a hail marry beyond half court shot, but it only counted as 2 points since the three pointer didn't exist in the NBA yet (it did in the ABA). The Lakers would lose the game in overtime, before losing the series 4-3.

1969 Boston Celtics: The Lakers were team turmoil with Jerry West, Wilt, and Elgin Baylor clashing at the beginning of the season, and Wilt and coach Butch van Breda Kolff clashing all throughout the season. Jerry West struggled with exhaustion from game 3 onwards and wasn't the same player, after scoring 53 and 41 points in games 1 and 2. In game 4, Elgin Baylor was apparently controversially ruled out of bounds with 7 seconds left and the Celtics down 1. In game 5, Jerry West pulled his hamstring in the closing minutes of the game and was out hobbled for the rest of the series.

Just read this quote about game 7.

In anticipation of a Lakers win, Lakers owner Jack Kent Cooke had ordered thousands of balloons with "World Champion Lakers" printed on them suspended from the rafters of the Forum. Flyers were placed in every seat stating, "When, not if, the Lakers win the title, balloons will be released from the rafters, the USC marching band will play "Happy Days Are Here Again" and broadcaster Chick Hearn will interview Elgin Baylor, Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain in that order."[1] Before the game, the Celtics circulated in their locker room a memo about the Lakers' celebration plans.[2] When Jerry West went to the court for a pre game shoot around and saw the balloons, he became furious with Cooke. Russell noted the giant net hanging from the ceiling during pregame warmups and said to West, "Those ****ing balloons are staying up there."[1] With only two true guards on the Laker roster and West still feeling the effects of the hamstring pull, Celtics coach Russell ordered his players to fast break at every opportunity.

1968 Boston Celtics: St. Louis Hawks lost Lou Hudson for 35 games due to military service, which hampered the Hawks who would have almost definitely been the #1 team in the league record-wise. He missed the last 35 games of the season, and his first game back was the 1st round of the playoffs where the Hawks would eventually lose.

1967 Philadelphia 76ers: Horribly weak Western Conference meant whoever came out of the east would almost certainly auto-win. First year the Celtics had Bill Russell as a player-coach. Benefitted from playing a brand new 1st year Chicago Bulls team in the 1st round while other teams had to play legit teams.

1966 Boston Celtics: Celtics almost blew a 3-1 lead vs the Lakers in the finals. Wilt shot 28-68 from the line in the ECF vs the Celtics.

1965 Boston Celtics: Lakers star Elgin Baylor injured his knee 5 minutes into the 1st game of the playoffs. The Lakers would still make the finals before losing 4-1.

1964 Boston Celtics: Hawks starting center Zelmo Beaty dealt with nagging injuries all series, which led to Wilt having free reign to score and eventually led the San Francisco Warriors to winning in 7 games. No injury to Beaty means they probably beat the Warriors and Wilt, and then have the depth the Warriors didn't to contest with the Celtics.

1963 Boston Celtics: Jerry West struggled with injuries all season and wasn't 100% healthy for the playoffs.

1962 Boston Celtics: Celtics guard Frank Ramsey, after having 13 free throw attempts all series, had 16 attempts in game 7 in an eventual 3 point win for the Celtics.

1961 Boston Celtics: Bob Pettit underplayed the first 2 games of the series and let the Celtics get an early 2-0 lead before finally getting back to normal and leading the Hawks to win game 3.

1960 Boston Celtics: The Celtics out rebounded the Hawks by 39 in game 7. Hawks had absolutely horrendous shooting from Cliff Hagan and Bob Pettit most games.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/oq4dkv/oc_lets_give_an_asterisk_to_every_nba_champion/

[nayte]

Credit due to the person who compiled all that.
It shows the absurdity of asterix titles

[Spurs m8]

2014 - both teams had to endure the ac malfunction...spurs were the aging team and miami are more used to hot tropical weather.

Spurs also won the series in 5 by the greatest margin in history...so a quarter or 2 of no ac really did nothing.

Try again

[HBK_Kliq_2]

You forgot 1971 and 2003 when Jerry West and Dirk were injured, especially considering dirk's team was #1 SRS and Jerry West won the title the next year in 1972.

But yes, good point. This is why injury excuse is bullshit because you could make it every year almost.

The most legit rings i think were Kawhi's in 2014 because lebron\durant were healthy and Kawhi in 2019 because Giannis was healthy, butler was healthy, curry was healthy.

[nayte]

Geez. It's showing that saying a ring is an asterix is stupid.nothing else.

[Manny98]

Geez. It's showing that saying a ring is an asterix is stupid.nothing else.

This, a championship is a championship at the end of the day.

Injuries are a part of sports but they don't lessen the value of a championship

[nayte]

This, a championship is a championship at the end of the day.

Injuries are a part of sports but they don't lessen the value of a championship

Why is it so ****ing hard.lol

[RRR3]

Damn, no one has any legit rings. Everyone is a choker confirmed.

[HunterSThompson]

1. this is why I say injuries aren't legit excuses and they happen every year.

2. even if they did count it has to be a superstar on one of the top 2 or 3 contending teams.. that Perkins injury in 2010 for example. I mean. still had rondo, pierce, ray, Garnett and wallace lol.. definitely deeper than LA still also



3. I only give asterisks to do or die bail outs (then only the guy who made the shot gets creatit) but not if it's on a team with colluded superstars or in shortened seasons or woth league interference like suspending guys at the request of a player and not from a referees actual call or decision on the court. and also any other major deviation from the norm Ala no travel, no fans, bubbles etc...


injuries happen and random calls happen.. but when they come at the very end of a game 6 in which a team is about to win the title and a guy breathes on hakeem. that's an asterisk. or if a guy goes to the line 20 times a game and steals a series down 2-0 going 4 straight. then that's an asterisk


OP just listed the most random sh*t without any real context. il be back later after I take a sh*t to say which ones are legit since he's obviously out of his mind

[HunterSThompson]

part 1 of fixing OP's disaster



2021 Milwaukee Bucks: shortened covid season*

2020 LA Lakers: Davis collusion, Rondo ring chase, Bubble ring. No crowds, no travel, shortened season

2019 Toronto Raptors: Legit

2018 Golden State Warriors: Collusion, KD ring chasing

2017 Golden State Warriors: Collusion, KD ring chasing

2016 Cleveland Cavs: Draymond got suspended cause LeBron whined to the league and kyrie do or die bail out

2015 Golden State Warriors: Legit

2014 San Antonio Spurs: Legit

2013 Miami Heat: Colluded, Ring chasing Lebron, Bosh and Ray Allen, Ray Allen do or die bail out

2012 Miami Heat: Colluded, Ring chasing Lebron and Bosh, Lockout shortened season.

2011 Dallas Mavericks: Legit

2010 LA Lakers: Legit

2009 LA Lakers: Legit

2008 Boston Celtics: Colluded, Garnett and Ray allen ring chasing

2007 San Antonio Spurs: Boris Diaw and Amare Stoudemire both got suspended for BS reasons. - actually a solid take*

2006 Miami Heat: Dwyane Wade FTs the entire series. Shot 25 FTs in game 5 alone. - 2 in a row, good job*

2005 San Antonio Spurs: Legit

2004 Detroit Pistons: Legit

2003 San Antonio Spurs: Legit

2002 LA Lakers: Legit ( only rigged to go 7 for money, kings shot more free throws and had game 7 at home. no excuses )

2001 LA Lakers: Legit

2000 LA Lakers: Legit

1999 San Antonio Spurs: Lockout shortened season.

1998 Chicago Bulls: Legit ( getting away with tricks is part of the game

1997 Chicago Bulls: Legit ( ditto )

1996 Chicago Bulls: Legit

1995 Houston Rockets: Drexler ring chasing

1994 Houston Rockets: Jordan was playing baseball. - this one actually works because the league forced this and all jordan did was bet on non nba related stuff*

1993 Chicago Bulls: Legit

1992 Chicago Bulls: Legit ( its in a players contract that if he contracts aids he can't play )

1991 Chicago Bulls: Legit

1990 Detroit Pistons: Legit

1989 Detroit Pistons: Legit

1988 LA Lakers: Phantom foul league 1 sided manipulation of the rules, major play at end of game 6

1987 LA Lakers: Legit

1986 Boston Celtics: Legit

1985 LA Lakers: Legit

1984 Boston Celtics: Legit

1983 Philadelphia 76ers: 2nd best team in the league added the reigning MVP - could be legit collusion*

1982 LA Lakers: Legit

1981 Boston Celtics: Legit

1980 LA Lakers: Legit ( sorry, new rims, balls, three point lines etc.. are all advancements and not intended to hurt players. only league manipulation intended to stop a certain teams success is considered an asterisk )

[HunterSThompson]

part 2

1979 Seattle SuperSonics: Legit

1978 Washington Bullets: Legit

1977 Portland Trailblazers: Legit ( merger was more advancement. sorry )

1976 Boston Celtics: Just read all these controversies that happened, especially in game 5. Lots of incompetent refs. - could be legit asterisk. need more explanation*

1975 Golden State Warriors: Legit ( a free throw discrepancy with no allegations isn't enough )

1974 Boston Celtics: Legit

1973 New York Knicks: Legit

1972 LA Lakers: Wilt possible collusion, ring chasing ( need more info on how he got there )

1971 Milwaukee Bucks: Legit

1970 New York Knicks: Legit

1969 Boston Celtics: Legit



1968 Boston Celtics: Legit

1967 Philadelphia 76ers: Legit

1966 Boston Celtics: Legit

1965 Boston Celtics: Legit

1964 Boston Celtics: Legit

1963 Boston Celtics: Legit

1962 Boston Celtics: Legit

1961 Boston Celtics: Legit

1960 Boston Celtics: Legit



need more info on the celtics. i don't know for sure if they had collusions/ring chasing superstars or not. seems odd how they had so many top stars. if anyone can point on specific years they got someone in a shady way let me know

[nayte]

Part zero that you are to stupid to miss the point luv

[ShawkFactory]

part 1 of fixing OP's disaster



2021 Milwaukee Bucks: shortened covid season*

2020 LA Lakers: Davis collusion, Rondo ring chase, Bubble ring. No crowds, no travel, shortened season

2019 Toronto Raptors: Legit

2018 Golden State Warriors: Collusion, KD ring chasing

2017 Golden State Warriors: Collusion, KD ring chasing

2016 Cleveland Cavs: Draymond got suspended cause LeBron whined to the league and kyrie do or die bail out

2015 Golden State Warriors: Legit

2014 San Antonio Spurs: Legit

2013 Miami Heat: Colluded, Ring chasing Lebron, Bosh and Ray Allen, Ray Allen do or die bail out

2012 Miami Heat: Colluded, Ring chasing Lebron and Bosh, Lockout shortened season.

2011 Dallas Mavericks: Legit

2010 LA Lakers: Legit

2009 LA Lakers: Legit

2008 Boston Celtics: Colluded, Garnett and Ray allen ring chasing

2007 San Antonio Spurs: Boris Diaw and Amare Stoudemire both got suspended for BS reasons. - actually a solid take*

2006 Miami Heat: Dwyane Wade FTs the entire series. Shot 25 FTs in game 5 alone. - 2 in a row, good job*

2005 San Antonio Spurs: Legit

2004 Detroit Pistons: Legit

2003 San Antonio Spurs: Legit

2002 LA Lakers: Legit ( only rigged to go 7 for money, kings shot more free throws and had game 7 at home. no excuses )

2001 LA Lakers: Legit

2000 LA Lakers: Legit

1999 San Antonio Spurs: Lockout shortened season.

1998 Chicago Bulls: Legit ( getting away with tricks is part of the game

1997 Chicago Bulls: Legit ( ditto )

1996 Chicago Bulls: Legit

1995 Houston Rockets: Drexler ring chasing

1994 Houston Rockets: Jordan was playing baseball. - this one actually works because the league forced this and all jordan did was bet on non nba related stuff*

1993 Chicago Bulls: Legit

1992 Chicago Bulls: Legit ( its in a players contract that if he contracts aids he can't play )

1991 Chicago Bulls: Legit

1990 Detroit Pistons: Legit

1989 Detroit Pistons: Legit

1988 LA Lakers: Phantom foul league 1 sided manipulation of the rules, major play at end of game 6

1987 LA Lakers: Legit

1986 Boston Celtics: Legit

1985 LA Lakers: Legit

1984 Boston Celtics: Legit

1983 Philadelphia 76ers: 2nd best team in the league added the reigning MVP - could be legit collusion*

1982 LA Lakers: Legit

1981 Boston Celtics: Legit

1980 LA Lakers: Legit ( sorry, new rims, balls, three point lines etc.. are all advancements and not intended to hurt players. only league manipulation intended to stop a certain teams success is considered an asterisk )

Ok, I'll bite (even though you and I both know I shouldn't).

How is this legit:


2002 LA Lakers: Legit ( only rigged to go 7 for money, kings shot more free throws and had game 7 at home. no excuses )

But this is an asterisk:


2016 Cleveland Cavs: Draymond got suspended cause LeBron whined to the league and kyrie do or die bail out

Exact same thing. League wanted to extend the series and home team had game 7 to get it done and didn't. Warriors also had game 6

[HunterSThompson]

Ok, I'll bite (even though you and I both know I shouldn't).

How is this legit:



But this is an asterisk:



Exact same thing. League wanted to extend the series and home team had game 7 to get it done and didn't. Warriors also had game 6

1 sided rigging is an asterisk

rigging for both teams to make more money isn't... the league knew the finals matchup with the nets or whoever else would be low ratings so they needed to make the lakers/kings series go 7 games.

game 7 was in sacramento and the kings shot more free throws in the series. they also had some obvious rigged games

the kings ultimately lost the series because they choked game 7 on their home floor going 2 for 20 from three and 16 for 30 from the line



the league didn't also give the warriors free games and it wasn't a close series like the kings/lakers. thats the difference.. they didn't extend it for ratings because they already had the 2 teams in the finals they wanted. they extended it for lebron to win a title in cleveland

[ShawkFactory]

1 sided rigging is an asterisk

rigging for both teams to make more money isn't... the league knew the finals matchup with the nets or whoever else would be low ratings so they needed to make the lakers/kings series go 7 games.

game 7 was in sacramento and the kings shot more free throws in the series. they also had some obvious rigged games

the kings ultimately lost the series because they choked game 7 on their home floor going 2 for 20 from three and 16 for 30 from the line

The Warriors ultimately lost the series because they scored like 11 points in the 4th and had some terrible turnovers. There’s absolutely no evidence of a one sided rigging in that series as a whole.

Things went the Cavs way when they were down 3-1. At 3-3 it was played clean.

And yes...a lakers/nets series gets higher rating than Kings/nets

[HunterSThompson]

The Warriors ultimately lost the series because they scored like 11 points in the 4th and had some terrible turnovers. There’s absolutely no evidence of a one sided rigging in that series as a whole.

Things went the Cavs way when they were down 3-1. At 3-3 it was played clean.

the league didn't also give the warriors free games ( like they did equally to the lakers and kings ) and it wasn't a close series like the kings/lakers. thats the difference.. they didn't extend it for ratings because they already had the 2 teams in the finals they wanted. they extended it for lebron to win a title in cleveland

[HunterSThompson]

game 5 lakers kings 2002

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200205280SAC.html


lakers lost by 1 point and kings shot 10 more free throws at home

kobe was hacked all game shooting like 34 attempts including fouled attempts and only got like 5 calls to go his way

and back then he was going to the basket a lot


this game makes up for game 6... or if anything... game 6 was the makeup game

[Naero]

They’re not even consistent with their definition of an asterisk championship, which in itself discredits the argument.

Example: detractors cherry-pick Finals competition when asterisking the Raptors’ 2019 title, ignoring that all their Eastern opponents were healthy. It’s the inverse with this year’s championship: they scrutinize pre-Finals injuries while glossing over that the Bucks’ Finals opponent, the Suns, were at full strength.

What is the criteria, even, and why?

Injuries to just Finals competition? Injuries to anyone? Not having to beat Olympian teams like the Nets at full strength? A few dubious referee calls? “Bailout” shots by teammates? Slightly shortened seasons? Stars missing one or a few pivotal games?

I’ve heard all these boiled-down arguments and more from asteriskers without any explanation how they are historically unfair advantages. And if you were to apply them consistently, it just stretches the term’s meaning thin since they’re applicable to virtually every champion as the OP illustrates.

Find a definite criteria for asterisk championships, and stick with it; otherwise, the term is nothing more than an abstraction anyone can manipulate to devalue disliked outcomes.

Only asterisk title in my book would be one the league gift-wraps to a team, and nothing close to that has truly happened yet.

[RRR3]

they’re not even consistent with their definition of an asterisk championship, which in itself discredits the argument.

Example: Detractors cherry-pick finals competition when asterisking the raptors’ 2019 title, ignoring that all their eastern opponents were healthy. It’s the inverse with this year’s championship: They scrutinize pre-finals injuries while glossing over that the bucks’ finals opponent, the suns, were at full strength.

What is the criteria, even, and why?

Injuries to just finals competition? Injuries to anyone? Not having to beat olympian teams like the nets at full strength? A few dubious referee calls? “bailout” shots by teammates? Slightly shortened seasons? Stars missing one or a few pivotal games?

I’ve heard all these boiled-down arguments and more from asteriskers without any explanation how they are historically unfair advantages. And if you were to apply them consistently, it just stretches the term’s meaning thin since it applies to virtually every team as the op illustrates.

Find a definite criteria for asterisk championships, and stick with it; otherwise, the term is nothing more than an abstraction anyone can manipulate to devalue disliked outcomes.

only asterisk title in my book would be one the league hands to a team on a silver platter, and nothing close to that has truly happened yet.
2002 wcf

[Naero]

2002 wcf

Even if you want to argue Game 6 was rigged (which I believe it was), it was only one game. The Lakers did much more the rest of the season and playoffs to win it all without the league’s intervention, and it’s reductive to discredit that just because of one sketchily officiated game.

It was unfair to the Kings, of course, but there’s so much more to winning championships that it’d be even unfairer to the Lakers to overlook everything else they had to do right to win the title.

Hell, even in that series alone, you could argue the Game 5 officiating, which was slanted in favor of the Kings, offsets some of the Game 6 rig-job. I don’t think the league, if it had any agenda, was trying to facilitate a Lakers championship; they were only trying to extend the series, which was one of the most hyped WCFs of all time. Game 7 was well-officiated, which reinforces my point that the Lakers needed to play scrupulously elsewhen to win it all.

It’s why I don’t asterisk even murky officiating, personally: it typically oversimplifies how much goes into title runs.

[HunterSThompson]

2002 wcf

game 5 was just as much rigged for the kings as fame 6 was rigged for the lakers

[iamgine]

:lol

[2much_knowledge]

This thread is hilarious. But some of them are 100 % true. I think bynum got injured in 2008 finals too

2007 is absolutely right. That was Phoenix year all the way

88 and 89 cancel each other out. Lakers won because of thomas injury and then pistons won cause of magics injury

[ArbitraryWater]

2014 - both teams had to endure the ac malfunction...spurs were the aging team and miami are more used to hot tropical weather.

Spurs also won the series in 5 by the greatest margin in history...so a quarter or 2 of no ac really did nothing.

Try again

dumbass

[ArbitraryWater]

Even if you want to argue Game 6 was rigged (which I believe it was), it was only one game. The Lakers did much more the rest of the season and playoffs to win it all without the league’s intervention, and it’s reductive to discredit that just because of one sketchily officiated game.

It was unfair to the Kings, of course, but there’s so much more to winning championships that it’d be even unfairer to the Lakers to overlook everything else they had to do right to win the title.

Hell, even in that series alone, you could argue the Game 5 officiating, which was slanted in favor of the Kings, offsets some of the Game 6 rig-job. I don’t think the league, if it had any agenda, was trying to facilitate a Lakers championship; they were only trying to extend the series, which was one of the most hyped WCFs of all time. Game 7 was well-officiated, which reinforces my point that the Lakers needed to play scrupulously elsewhen to win it all.

It’s why I don’t asterisk even murky officiating, personally: it typically oversimplifies how much goes into title runs.

seems like awful logic.

that one game decided the season. lakers were done without it.

[Naero]

seems like awful logic.

that one game decided the season. lakers were done without it.

My point is that the Lakers accomplished too much else throughout the rest of the season to argue they were handed the championship on a silver platter.

Even as consequential as Game 6 was, it certainly wasn’t the only one that decided the season.

What about all the Lakers did to reach the WCF? Their prior-two wins in that series? Did the officials orchestrate all those as well?

Not saying the Kings didn’t deserve to win; I’m just saying one misofficiated game against them isn’t enough to warrant asterisks, if we’re looking at the bigger picture. The ‘02 Lakers were championship-level, and therein lies biggest flaw in asterisking: no one gets into a position to win it all without playing on that caliber, and it’s silly to detract away all of that just because of beneficial circumstances here and there.

I’m not even pro-Lakers in arguing this, mind you; I’m just anti-asterisks.

[SaintzFury13]

the league didn't also give the warriors free games ( like they did equally to the lakers and kings ) and it wasn't a close series like the kings/lakers. thats the difference.. they didn't extend it for ratings because they already had the 2 teams in the finals they wanted. they extended it for lebron to win a title in cleveland

You have any evidence to support the theory that they purposely extended it so LeBron could win the title for Cleveland?

[SaintzFury13]

My point is that the Lakers accomplished too much else throughout the rest of the season to argue they were handed the championship on a silver platter.

Even as consequential as Game 6 was, it certainly wasn’t the only one that decided the season.

What about all the Lakers did to reach the WCF? Their prior-two wins in that series? Did the officials orchestrate all those as well?

Not saying the Kings didn’t deserve to win; I’m just saying one misofficiated game against them isn’t enough to warrant asterisks, if we’re looking at the bigger picture. The ‘02 Lakers were championship-level, and therein lies biggest flaw in asterisking: no one gets into a position to win it all without playing on that caliber, and it’s silly to detract away all of that just because of beneficial circumstances here and there.

I’m not even pro-Lakers in arguing this, mind you; I’m just anti-asterisks.

An argument can certainly be made that an asterisk is appropriate when discussing certain title wins.

I absolutely loved the way the 2019 Toronto Raptors were built as a team, from top to bottom. But we can't sit here and ignore the fact that they had major injuries to two of their three top players happen in the same series. I'm not saying the Toronto Raptors championship win has an asterisk because of it, what I am saying however is that you can't really say this was a case of one team being better than the other.

[tpols]

Some of these are so weak. A/C breaking down? Spurs missing FTs and Ray hitting a clutch shot? KENDRICK PERKINS getting injured? :oldlol:

There's levels to this shit. Some championships are worth more than others.

[tpols]

My point is that the Lakers accomplished too much else throughout the rest of the season to argue they were handed the championship on a silver platter.

Even as consequential as Game 6 was, it certainly wasn’t the only one that decided the season.

What about all the Lakers did to reach the WCF? Their prior-two wins in that series? Did the officials orchestrate all those as well?

Not saying the Kings didn’t deserve to win; I’m just saying one misofficiated game against them isn’t enough to warrant asterisks, if we’re looking at the bigger picture. The ‘02 Lakers were championship-level, and therein lies biggest flaw in asterisking: no one gets into a position to win it all without playing on that caliber, and it’s silly to detract away all of that just because of beneficial circumstances here and there.

I’m not even pro-Lakers in arguing this, mind you; I’m just anti-asterisks.

Dude rigging a game 6 WCF elimination game is as fraudulent as it gets. You cant just say because they were good all season they deserve a rig that bad. I'm a Kobe fan but everybody knows the kings got absolutely jobbed. Refs went to prison in the mid 2000s for what they were doing at this time period.

[SaintzFury13]

Some of these are so weak. A/C breaking down? Spurs missing FTs and Ray hitting a clutch shot? KENDRICK PERKINS getting injured? :oldlol:

There's levels to this shit. Some championships are worth more than others.

This is something I will always agree with. Not all championships are created equal. Some day a lot more for a persons legacy than others do. The difference between what LeBron's title win in Cleveland did for him and what Durant's title wins in Golden State do for him are a perfect example.

[Naero]

An argument can certainly be made that an asterisk is appropriate when discussing certain title wins.

I absolutely loved the way the 2019 Toronto Raptors were built as a team, from top to bottom. But we can't sit here and ignore the fact that they had major injuries to two of their three top players happen in the same series. I'm not saying the Toronto Raptors championship win has an asterisk because of it, what I am saying however is that you can't really say this was a case of one team being better than the other.

I agree that the better team doesn’t always win. I just challenge those who think there are undeserving champions, which asterisks typically imply.

Injuries are part of the game, and they’re more attributable to one’s regimen, playstyle, and physique than they are to luck. You can’t discredit a team for oppositional injuries without crediting them for staying healthier, because that’s much easier said than done.

Plus, the 2019 Raptors also had to beat legitimate Bucks and Sixers teams at full strength, and that brings me back to my overarching point: there’s a lot more to title runs than these asterisked circumstances.

Unfair or not, teams often also need to overcome adverse officiating. Even as a Bucks fan, I don’t asterisk the Sixers’ Eastern Conference championship despite the reputedly rigged ECF. Why? Because there’s much more we could’ve done to win that series.

I think bigger problem is that people overvalue championships and fail to recognize the levels to winning. That’s where most of these asterisks stem from: losing teams get minimal recognition for their incredible seasons just because they failed to win it all, so detractors use asterisks as a lazy argument to emphasize the nuances to it.

Some championships are more respectable than others; I won’t disagree there. None are undeserving, however.

[Naero]

Dude rigging a game 6 WCF elimination game is as fraudulent as it gets. You cant just say because they were good all season they deserve a rig that bad. I'm a Kobe fan but everybody knows the kings got absolutely jobbed. Refs went to prison in the mid 2000s for what they were doing at this time period.

Where did I claim the Lakers deserved the rigjob? It was a travesty, and I have no problem admitting the Kings were the better team.

I just think it’s simplistic to define a team’s entire season by one poorly officiated game. Even if you insist on overemphasizing officiating, at least try to look at it bilaterally: the Lakers were victimized by the referees themselves in Game 5, and we’d all be scrutinizing that instead if they lost the series.

[JBSptfn]

None of the titles in the NBA on NBC era are legit except for the 94-95 Rockets and the lockout-shortened 99 Spurs title. The NBA was fixed for MJ in the 90's, and the 00-02 Flukers' titles were won on the backs of the refs. It wasn't just 2002. Look at Game 7 of the 00 WCF.

[HoopsNY]

Dude rigging a game 6 WCF elimination game is as fraudulent as it gets. You cant just say because they were good all season they deserve a rig that bad. I'm a Kobe fan but everybody knows the kings got absolutely jobbed. Refs went to prison in the mid 2000s for what they were doing at this time period.

Yep. This is why Shaq's peak is overrated, but no one wants to admit that game fixing (which NBA players claimed, as well as the media, and fans), the demise of great centers due to injury or retirement (Zo, Radja, Daughtery, Robinson, Hakeem, Ewing, Mutombo), and the league turning a blind eye to Shaq's fouls were all major factors in the success of Shaq and the Lakers.

Ray Allen and the Bucks came out and said in 2001 that the league didn't want to see a Spurs and Bucks finals, and would rather see the Sixers/LA. It would have been bad for ratings and the league was suffering tremendously due to the fall of their TV ratings after Jordan's retirement.

The next season, Mike comes back, and one of the reasons he cited was to help the NBA's TV ratings. Go figure.

[ImKobe]

Yep. This is why Shaq's peak is overrated, but no one wants to admit that game fixing (which NBA players claimed, as well as the media, and fans), the demise of great centers due to injury or retirement (Zo, Radja, Daughtery, Robinson, Hakeem, Ewing, Mutombo), and the league turning a blind eye to Shaq's fouls were all major factors in the success of Shaq and the Lakers.

Ray Allen and the Bucks came out and said in 2001 that the league didn't want to see a Spurs and Bucks finals, and would rather see the Sixers/LA. It would have been bad for ratings and the league was suffering tremendously due to the fall of their TV ratings after Jordan's retirement.

The next season, Mike comes back, and one of the reasons he cited was to help the NBA's TV ratings. Go figure.

Is it Shaq's fault that the Kings as a team shot worse than him from the FT line in that game? If Shaq shoots his regular 50% from the FT line (he shot 76.5%), the Lakers probably lose. Also, the refs can't make that 3 for Horry to prevent the Lakers from going down 1 - 3 in the series, nor did they force Peja to airball a wide open corner 3 late in the 4th quarter of Game 7.. Yes, the refs shaved points but you can't rig an entire series, much less an entire Playoff run :facepalm .

[JBSptfn]

Is it Shaq's fault that the Kings as a team shot worse than him from the FT line in that game? If Shaq shoots his regular 50% from the FT line (he shot 76.5%), the Lakers probably lose. Also, the refs can't make that 3 for Horry to prevent the Lakers from going down 1 - 3 in the series, nor did they force Peja to airball a wide open corner 3 late in the 4th quarter of Game 7.. Yes, the refs shaved points but you can't rig an entire series, much less an entire Playoff run :facepalm .

Yes, the Kings missed too many free throws. Nobody is denying that. And, you are right about the Horry play. That was just one of those things that happens.

However, when you watch game 6 of the 02 WCF again, you can see the blatant fixing. Take away a few of those calls, and the Kings would have had a better chance to wrap up that series, especially if Bryant would have been called at the end for elbowing Bibby in the face like he should have been.

Also, don't forget the calls in Game 7 of the 2000 WCF, when the refs tried to get Sabonis out of the game in the fourth quarter, and when Shaq hip-checked Steve Smith out of bounds with 40 seconds left, and there was no call. There was also something about illegal defense in that game as well (I think LA was getting away with it, but I am not sure).

[Axe]

Yes, the Kings missed too many free throws. Nobody is denying that. And, you are right about the Horry play. That was just one of those things that happens.

However, when you watch game 6 of the 02 WCF again, you can see the blatant fixing. Take away a few of those calls, and the Kings would have had a better chance to wrap up that series, especially if Bryant would have been called at the end for elbowing Bibby in the face like he should have been.

Also, don't forget the calls in Game 7 of the 2000 WCF, when the refs tried to get Sabonis out of the game in the fourth quarter, and when Shaq hip-checked Steve Smith out of bounds with 40 seconds left, and there was no call. There was also something about illegal defense in that game as well (I think LA was getting away with it, but I am not sure).
Rigs in the league have been in full swing ever since.

[HoopsNY]

Yes, the Kings missed too many free throws. Nobody is denying that. And, you are right about the Horry play. That was just one of those things that happens.

However, when you watch game 6 of the 02 WCF again, you can see the blatant fixing. Take away a few of those calls, and the Kings would have had a better chance to wrap up that series, especially if Bryant would have been called at the end for elbowing Bibby in the face like he should have been.

Also, don't forget the calls in Game 7 of the 2000 WCF, when the refs tried to get Sabonis out of the game in the fourth quarter, and when Shaq hip-checked Steve Smith out of bounds with 40 seconds left, and there was no call. There was also something about illegal defense in that game as well (I think LA was getting away with it, but I am not sure).

Yup. This isn't something that was unknown. It was largely spoken about at the time. In the Bucks/Sixers series, the Bucks came on record about how the league wanted the finals to be between LA/Philly.

The NBA had seen a severe decline in its ratings post MJ. It comes as no surprise that the league wanted to prop up Shaq and turn a blind eye to his egregious offensive fouls.

As a result, Allen and George Karl both got fined. Here are Allen's words:


"I think there's no question," Allen said. "The league, as a marketing machine, the bottom line is about making money. It behooves everybody for the league to make more money, and the league knows that Philadelphia is going to make more money with L.A. than we would with L.A.


Karl said three other NBA coaches called him after Game 5 to raise the conspiracy issue.

"Sam Cassell said that Kevin Garnett and Rod Strickland had called him, so it's out there," Karl said.

https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs2001/2001/0605/1209931.html

[Wally450]

Jesus, Kenny is an unbearable poster.

Also, I too read Reddit.