Why do people say kd outplayed greek?

[Bronbron23]

Greek- 32/13/4 ts% 59

Kd- 35/11/5 ts% 59

If we cancel out the assists and reb the question becomes is 3 more points a game worth more than dpoy level defense? Anyone who knows anything about the game knows dpoy level defense is worth way more than 3 points. Imagine scottie pippen but give him 10 more points a game. This why kd didn't outplay greek :confusedshrug:

[Rysio]

KD almost single-handedly won 2 games giannis didn't do that so yes KD outplayed him.

[ralph_i_el]

Because they watched the games. Those stats don't even tell close to the full story.

[HunterSThompson]

lebron fans go to bed at 9pm and wake up at 4am, check box scores and think they know the game. its been going on like this for almost 2 decades

1987_lakers actually said rondo sucked in the 2020 finals lol... i wish we still had that "stupid things posters say" thread or whatever it was called

[Bronbron23]

Because they watched the games. Those stats don't even tell close to the full story.

I'm more about eye test but stats matter and i gave stats because that's what most peoole go by on here it seems. As far as the eye test it depends on what you value. Kd certainly looked better offensively. Part if that is just optics because of how he scores but he was a bit better. Greek looked alot better defensively though.

[1987_Lakers]

lebron fans go to bed at 9pm and wake up at 4am, check box scores and think they know the game. its been going on like this for almost 2 decades

1987_lakers actually said rondo sucked in the 2020 finals lol... i wish we still had that "stupid things posters say" thread or whatever it was called

Atleast don't twist my words, I simply said he was our 3rd best player and wasn't sniffing playing time with the Clippers.

[Manny98]

Because they watched the games. Those stats don't even tell close to the full story.
This Giannis was only better in 2/7 games

[ShawkFactory]

Because he did, and anyone who watched the series saw.

[Bronbron23]

This Giannis was only better in 2/7 games

I disagree.

Game 1 greek 34/11/4 64% fg kd 29/10/3 48% fg

Game 3 greek 33/14/2 45% fg kd 30/10/5 39% fg

Game 4 greek 34/12/4 55% fg kd 28/13/5 36% fg

Game 6 greek 30/17/3 60% fg kd 32/11/3 50% fg

Game 7 greek 40/13/5 63% fg kd 48/9/6 47% fg

And these numbers don't take into account greeks significant greater impact on the other half of the game.

[Bronbron23]

Because he did, and anyone who watched the series saw.

Like you and alot of fans they only say half of the game which is offense. Most fans don't appreciate defensive impact.

Plus the eye test can trick you when evaluating offense. Players like kd, steph and dame appear to look like way better scorers than someone like greek because of how they score. Threes, pull up j's and their handles and moves looks way better than how greek scores.

[HunterSThompson]

Atleast don't twist my words, I simply said he was our 3rd best player and wasn't sniffing playing time with the Clippers.


LeBron won last year with Rondo being the 3rd best player on the Lakers...
The same Rondo who can't even get playing time on a stacked Clippers team.

Discuss.

------

9/4/7 averages in the playoffs last year for Rondo


he is very mediocre, you know it and I know it.


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the 2020 Lakers were very 2000-2002 Lakers esque, 2 star players with a bunch or role players

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2 things


1. you're an idiot

2. i just now noticed you called 2000 kobe a star player

[gonzaldo]

This Giannis was only better in 2/7 games

He was better in games 1,3,4 and 6, KD had two monster games that somehow skew the perception of him, but its all about winning more games and the greek help the bucks win one more than nets.

[ralph_i_el]

After the series Giannis said Durant was the best player in the world. It should be case closed at that point. Of course, Giannis is very humble, but still...

[Bronbron23]

After the series Giannis said Durant was the best player in the world. It should be case closed at that point. Of course, Giannis is very humble, but still...

That's my problem with that statement. Greek is very respectful and very humble. He coukd win 5 chips, mvp's fmvps and dpoys and he still probably wouldn't say he's the best in the world.

[1987_Lakers]

2 things


1. you're an idiot

2. i just now noticed you called 2000 kobe a star player

Again, show me where I said he sucked in the Finals? But that's not the point, Past prime Rondo is an atrocious player to have as your 3rd best player. Just shows how much LeBron had to carry.

[Bronbron23]

Again, show me where I said he sucked in the Finals? But that's not the point, Past prime Rondo is an atrocious player to have as your 3rd best player. Just shows how much LeBron had to carry.

Rondo was actually pretty good. His worth has never been his impact stats wise it's always been he impacts the game defensively and cerebrally. He's basically a smaller better scoring and passing version of Rodman. Rod was obviously a better rebounder and defender but there impact was similar. Funny thing is people like you will say the late 90's bulls were stacked partly because of rod but when it comes to Rondo its bron had to carry him. You can't have it both ways.

[1987_Lakers]

Rondo was actually pretty good. His worth has never been his impact stats wise it's always been he impacts the game defensively and cerebrally. He's basically a smaller better scoring and passing version of Rodman. Rod was obviously a better rebounder and defender but there impact was similar. Funny thing is people like you will say the late 90's bulls were stacked partly because of rod but when it comes to Rondo its bron had to carry him. You can't have it both ways.

He had his clutch moments and shot the 3 ball pretty good that postseason, but he was a 9/4/7 player that postseason. The Bucks this year had Holiday as their #3 guy, Suns had Ayton, Kobe had a prime Odom, all superior players than old Rondo. Rondo was solid, but for being a #3 guy he is pretty mediocre.

[Carbine]

None of those teams had AD or LeBron as the 2nd best player in a post season run.

The Lakers quite literally had the two most productive players on the same team last year for their run. That hasn't happened in a very very long time. Probably since Kobe/Shaq.

[Bronbron23]

He had his clutch moments and shot the 3 ball pretty good that postseason, but he was a 9/4/7 player that postseason. The Bucks this year had Holiday as their #3 guy, Suns had Ayton, Kobe had a prime Odom, all superior players than old Rondo. Rondo was solid, but for being a #3 guy he is pretty mediocre.

Yeah but bron had the significantly better 2nd option so it kind of evens out:confusedshrug:

[1987_Lakers]

Yeah but bron had the significantly better 2nd option so it kind of evens out:confusedshrug:

Yes, AD was a dog no denying that, but despite that LeBron still outperformed Kobe, CP3, and maybe Giannis throughout the playoffs.

[ShawkFactory]

Like you and alot of fans they only say half of the game which is offense. Most fans don't appreciate defensive impact.


You have no idea how I see the game.

KD is a absolutely fine defensive player. He is in no way a liability like Steph and Dame. And he wasn’t in this series.

[Bronbron23]

You have no idea how I see the game.

KD is a absolutely fine defensive player. He is in no way a liability like Steph and Dame. And he wasn’t in this series.

Well being better than dame or steph on defense isn't saying much but i agree kd isn't a liability and that he's a good defender. Greek is still a much better defender though and his impact on that end is greater enough that it's worth more than 3 points. Just 2 extra defensive stops is worth that alone. All i'm saying is defensive impact is severely underrated.

[ShawkFactory]

Well being better than dame or steph on defense isn't saying much but i agree kd isn't a liability and that he's a good defender. Greek is still a much better defender though and his impact on that end is greater enough that it's worth more than 3 points. Just 2 extra defensive stops is worth that alone. All i'm saying is defensive impact is severely underrated.

I just mentioned Steph and Dame because you previously lumped KD in with them.

But yea I mean Giannis is obviously incredible defensively but even he couldn’t stop KD. He was less than an inch away from taking his team through and I’m not even sure they had the same starting lineup once in the series. The entire Bucks squad was keying on him and he still went nuts.

He did better in 1-on-1 scenarios too, although I don’t have the numbers right now to back that up. It just seemed like he had the upper hand when they guarded each other

[Jasper]

Greek- 32/13/4 ts% 59

Kd- 35/11/5 ts% 59

If we cancel out the assists and reb the question becomes is 3 more points a game worth more than dpoy level defense? Anyone who knows anything about the game knows dpoy level defense is worth way more than 3 points. Imagine scottie pippen but give him 10 more points a game. This why kd didn't outplay greek :confusedshrug:

most be Olympic time American's against the Greek

[HunterSThompson]

Yes, AD was a dog no denying that, but despite that LeBron still outperformed Kobe, CP3, and maybe Giannis throughout the playoffs.

lebrons a little dog with more bark than bite no denying that, but hes a total cuck in certain situations. legendary front runner. legendary regular season performer. can hit game winning shots with it tied vs toronto. but when its tight and he needs to make a drive or go to the line or take a big shot in the finals ( pre ray allen bail out )... he's nowhere to be found. and when a smaller guy bodies him up and shows no fear. he shrinks

lebron is totally reliant on having a collection of guys making up for his flaws.. hes always needed shooters everywhere to pad his assists and bail him out

kobe had a few guys bail him out. but you can count them on one hand. seemingly every game has a big money shot from a teammate for lebron. kobe was the money ball player down the stretch 95% of the time

[Jasper]

kobe had a few guys bail him out. but you can count them on one hand. seemingly every game has a big money shot from a teammate for lebron. kobe was the money ball player down the stretch 95% of the time
best prime time joke , about NBA history ...lmao:durantunimpressed:

[1987_Lakers]

lebrons a little dog with more bark than bite no denying that, but hes a total cuck in certain situations. legendary front runner. legendary regular season performer. can hit game winning shots with it tied vs toronto. but when its tight and he needs to make a drive or go to the line or take a big shot in the finals ( pre ray allen bail out )... he's nowhere to be found. and when a smaller guy bodies him up and shows no fear. he shrinks

lebron is totally reliant on having a collection of guys making up for his flaws.. hes always needed shooters everywhere to pad his assists and bail him out

kobe had a few guys bail him out. but you can count them on one hand. seemingly every game has a big money shot from a teammate for lebron. kobe was the money ball player down the stretch 95% of the time

Imagine calling Bron a cuck when Kobe needed Shaq to bail him out to win 3 straight titles. :oldlol:

[StrongLurk]

What makes you think Giannis played better defense than KD?

At least on a basic level, KD had more blocks, steals, and a better defensive rating.

Also, Giannis HIMSELF called KD the best player in the league.

Eye test also shows KD as the better play and WAY more clutch than Giannis in that series.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Who knows. People just like to hype up KD for no good reason, he has never done shit in his life. Pretty much had the same career as Adrian Dantley.

Both made a couple finals with the dynasty team of the era (Curry\Klay\Dray and Isiah\Dumars\Laimbeer) and the rest of their career is just meaningless PPG that never translated to anything memorable.

[ArbitraryWater]

He didnt, its a myth.

[Im Still Ballin]

What makes you think Giannis played better defense than KD?

At least on a basic level, KD had more blocks, steals, and a better defensive rating.

Also, Giannis HIMSELF called KD the best player in the league.

Eye test also shows KD as the better play and WAY more clutch than Giannis in that series.

It's not definitive either way.

And KD choked when it mattered most. Let's not forget that.

[iamgine]

Cause it's obvious to anyone watching the games.

The problem comes when people equate outplaying for the series as proof of being the better player. Kobe was outplaying Duncan badly in 2001, but no one would call Kobe better than Duncan in 2001.

If KD's the better player, then so be it, but don't base it off outplaying for one series.

[Im Still Ballin]

Cause it's obvious to anyone watching the games.

The problem comes when people equate outplaying for the series as proof of being the better player. Kobe was outplaying Duncan badly in 2001, but no one would call Kobe better than Duncan in 2001.

If KD's the better player, then so be it, but don't base it off outplaying for one series.

Should've used a semicolon or em dash. It doesn't flow right with the comma you've used.

[SaintzFury13]

He had his clutch moments and shot the 3 ball pretty good that postseason, but he was a 9/4/7 player that postseason. The Bucks this year had Holiday as their #3 guy, Suns had Ayton, Kobe had a prime Odom, all superior players than old Rondo. Rondo was solid, but for being a #3 guy he is pretty mediocre.

Rondo was valuable as a guy who could run the offense and play defense when LeBron wasn’t on the floor. He didn’t need to be productive states wise, that’s not what he was there to do in the first place.

When you have two players like LeBron and AD on the same team, you aren’t going to need a legitimately elite supporting cast to go all the way. The truth of the matter is, no one outside of the clippers had any realistic chance of beating LA in a seven game series (and the Clippers blew a 3-1 lead so they have no one to blame but themselves).

Miami sure as hell didn’t have any chance. They were (in my opinion) the best all around team in the East but no one on that team could stop LeBron and AD from doing whatever they wanted.

LeBron doing as well as he did in that finals series is incredible, but let’s not invite the factors that allowed it to happen in the fashion that it did.

[Bronbron23]

What makes you think Giannis played better defense than KD?

At least on a basic level, KD had more blocks, steals, and a better defensive rating.

Also, Giannis HIMSELF called KD the best player in the league.

Eye test also shows KD as the better play and WAY more clutch than Giannis in that series.

Because he did. He's way more active and impacts way more shots especially with help defense. Kd was good also it's just that greek is better. It be like comparing Middleton and kd offensively. Middleton is still good but kd is significantly better

[j3lademaster]

Well you have to take into account KD went up against the Buck's defense. They got PJ Tucker solely for how he defended KD in those Houston vs GS playoff battles, then add in constant help defense from the likes of Jrue, Giannis etc... do I need to explain why the Bucks are an elite defense team? And like Ralphiel said earlier, if you watch the games the Nets moved the ball fine. Harris, Shamet and all those guys who are supposed to be knock-down shooters just weren't hitting on good looks. And whenever the Nets looked like they were going to go in a drought, KD would just completely take over the next few possessions and keep them in the game almost singlehandedly.

Durant's numbers are more impressive than Greek's with the right context.

[Bronbron23]

Well you have to take into account KD went up against the Buck's defense. They got PJ Tucker solely for how he defended KD in those Houston vs GS playoff battles, then add in constant help defense from the likes of Jrue, Giannis etc... do I need to explain why the Bucks are an elite defense team? And like Ralphiel said earlier, if you watch the games the Nets moved the ball fine. Harris, Shamet and all those guys who are supposed to be knock-down shooters just weren't hitting on good looks. And whenever the Nets looked like they were going to go in a drought, KD would just completely take over the next few possessions and keep them in the game almost singlehandedly.

Durant's numbers are more impressive than Greek's with the right context.

Good point. Bucs defense is definitely better than nets defense so that should be taken into account and i didn't think of that. That could maybe go both ways though. Even down a star the nets had better offensive players that draw more attention away from kd. Watching the games greek was definitely drawing more defensive attention than kd more often than not. He does drive way more though so the defense is naturally gonna collapse. Either way good point man.