Before teaming up with Wade/Bosh, how was Lebron's career better than AI, Dwight, Kid

[3ba11]

Dwight had 3 more DPOY and beat Lebron as an underdog

Iverson had 3 more scoring titles and was MVP

Kidd had 1 more Finals trip

So there's nothing that separates Lebron - he was a perennial loser before getting super-teams

[1987_Lakers]

LeBron was already a 2 time MVP

[3ba11]

LeBron was already a 2 time MVP


Dwight had 3 more DPOY and beat Lebron as an underdog

Iverson had 3 more scoring titles and was MVP

Kidd had 1 more Finals trip

So there's nothing that separates Lebron - he was a perennial loser before getting super-teams

[1987_Lakers]

Dwight had 3 more DPOY and beat Lebron as an underdog

Iverson had 3 more scoring titles and was MVP

Kidd had 1 more Finals trip

So there's nothing that separates Lebron - he was a perennial loser before getting super-teams
Despite all that, LeBron still had more MVPs than all of them combied.

[ShawkFactory]

His career wasn’t necessarily better.

But he was a better player than all of them. Some of them by a pretty fair amount.

So who cares

[3ba11]

Despite all that, LeBron still had more MVPs than all of them combied.


They have 3 more DPOY's and scoring titles, or more Finals runs

Nash has 1 more MVP too, but he isn't considered better than Iverson, Dwight or Kidd - they're all considered on the same level, and Lebron was in this group of perennial losers until he formed super-team.

Lebron was lottery or 2nd Round in 04, 05, 06, 08, and 10, while having a historic upset loss in the 09' ECF... So he was a perennial loser heading towards the same winless career of all ball-dominators (that didn't play with Kareem)

[3ba11]

His career wasn’t necessarily better.

But he was a better player than all of them. Some of them by a pretty fair amount.

So who cares


Lebron was lottery or 2nd Round in 04, 05, 06, 08, and 10, while having a historic upset loss in the 09' ECF... So he was a perennial loser heading towards the same winless career of all ball-dominators (that didn't play with Kareem)

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron was lottery or 2nd Round in 04, 05, 06, 08, and 10, while having a historic upset loss in the 09' ECF... So he was a perennial loser heading towards the same winless career of all ball-dominators (that didn't play with Kareem), UNTIL HE FORMED SUPER-TEAM

So I’ll repeat:

His career wasn’t necessarily better than them.

But he was a better player than all of them

[1987_Lakers]

His career wasn’t necessarily better.

But he was a better player than all of them. Some of them by a pretty fair amount.

So who cares

This

[SouBeachTalents]

The traditional tool for making dowels is a dowel plate, an iron (or better, hardened tool steel) plate with a hole having the size of the desired dowel. To make a dowel, a piece of wood is split or whittled to a size slightly bigger than desired and then driven through the hole in the dowel plate. The sharp edges of the hole shear off the excess wood.[1][2][3]

A second approach to cutting dowels is to rotate a piece of oversized stock past a fixed knife, or alternatively, to rotate the knife around the stock. Machines based on this principle emerged in the 19th century.[4][5] Frequently, these are small bench-mounted tools.[6][7]

For modest manufacturing volumes, wood dowels are typically manufactured on industrial dowel machines based on the same principles as the rotary cutters described above. Such machines may employ interchangeable cutting heads of varying diameters, thus enabling the machines to be quickly changed to manufacture different dowel diameters. Typically, the mechanism is open-ended, with material guides at the machine's entry and exit to enable fabrication of continuous dowel rods of unlimited length. Since the 19th century, some of these dowel machines have had power feed mechanisms to move the stock past the cutting mechanism.[8][9]

High-volume dowel manufacturing is done on a wood shaper, which simultaneously forms multiple dowels from a single piece of rectangular stock (i.e., wood). These machines employ two wide, rotating cutting heads, one above the stock and one below it. The heads have nearly identical cutting profiles so that each will form an array of adjoined, side-by-side "half dowels". The heads are aligned to each other and one head is shaped to make deeper cuts along the dowel edges so as to part the stock into individual dowel rods, resulting in a group of dowel rods emerging in parallel at the machine's output.

The wooden dowel rod used in woodworking applications is commonly cut into dowel pins, which are used to reinforce joints and support shelves and other components in cabinet making. Some woodworkers make their own dowel pins, while others purchase dowel pins precut to the required length and diameter.

When dowels are glued into blind holes, a very common case in dowel-based joinery, there must be a path for air and excess glue to escape when the dowel is pressed into place. If no provision is made to relieve the hydraulic pressure of air and glue, hammering the dowel home or clamping the joint can split the wood. An old solution to this problem is to plane a flat on the side of the dowel; some sources suggest planing the flat on the rough stock before the final shaping of the round dowel.[2] Some dowel plates solve the problem by cutting a groove in the side of the dowel as it is forced through; this is done by a groove screw, a pointed screw intruding from the side into the dowel cutting opening.[3] Some dowel pins are fluted with multiple parallel grooves along their length to serve the same purpose.

When two pieces of wood are to be joined by dowels embedded in blind holes, there are numerous methods for aligning the holes. For example, pieces of shot may be placed between the wood pieces to produce indentations when the pieces are clamped together; after the clamp is released, the indentations indicate the center points for drilling.[1] Dowel centers are simple and inexpensive tools for aligning opposing blind holes. Various commercial systems, such as Dowelmax, have been devised to solve this problem.

Alternative joinery methods may be used in place of conventional dowel pins, such as Miller dowels, biscuit joiners, spline joints, and proprietary tools such as the Domino jointer.

The word dowel was used in Middle English; it appears in Wycliffe's Bible translation (circa 1382-1395) in a list of the parts of a wheel: "...and the spokis, and dowlis of tho wheelis..."[10] Cognates with other Germanic languages suggest that the word is much older (deuvel in Dutch, Dübel in German).

Wooden dowels have been used in manufacturing and woodworking for many centuries. One of the earliest documented uses of wooden dowels was in Japanese shrines in AD 690,[citation needed] which were constructed using only wood, wooden dowels and pegs, and interlocking joints. Around AD 1000, Leif Erikson sailed across the North Atlantic in a ship that was largely constructed of overlapping planks held together by wooden dowels[citation needed] and iron nails. The wooden dowels did not rust and thus were more reliable than iron for long expeditions.

Metal dowels or dowel pins are often used as precise locating devices in machinery. Steel dowel pins are machined to tight tolerances, as are the corresponding holes, which are typically reamed. A dowel pin may have a smaller diameter than its hole so that it freely slips in, or a larger diameter so that it must be pressed into its hole (an interference fit).

When designing mechanical components, mechanical engineers typically use dowel holes as reference points to control positioning variations and attain repeatable assembly quality. If no dowels are used for alignment (e.g., components are mated by bolts only), there can be significant variation, or "play", in component alignment.

Typical drilling and milling operations, as well as manufacturing practices for bolt threads, introduce mechanical play proportional to the size of the fasteners. For example, bolts up to 10 mm (0.394 in) in diameter typically have play on the order of 0.2 mm (0.008 inches).[citation needed] When dowels are used in addition to bolts, however, the tighter dimensional tolerances of dowels and their mating holes—typically 0.01 mm (0.0004 inches)—result in significantly less play, on the order of 0.02 mm (0.0008 inches).[citation needed] Manufacturing costs are inversely proportional to mechanical tolerances and, as a result, engineers must balance the need for mechanical precision against cost as well as other factors such as manufacturability and serviceability.

There are a variety of specifications, military, ISO, DIN, ASME that pins may be made to. And size can even vary by dowel pin material. Metric dowel pins are often found in two sizes. In DIN 6325 standard the dowel pins are slightly larger than the nominal value. For example a 3 mm dowel pin will range from 3.002 to 3.008 mm (0.1182 to 0.1184 inches). In the ISO 2338 standard the dowel pins are slightly smaller - 3 mm nominal range is 2.986 to 3.000 mm (0.1176 to 0.1181 inches). The terminology (e.g. "oversized", "standard") is not entirely consistent across suppliers. In inch pins "oversized" refers to pins that are more significantly oversized for worn-out dowel pinholes. The most common inch-sized pins are slightly oversized, and "undersized" versions are also available.

In automobiles, dowels are used when precise mating alignment is required, such as in differential gear casings, engines, and transmissions.

Bolts in a bolted joint often have an important function as a dowel, resisting shear forces. For this reason, many bolts have a plain unthreaded section to their shank. This gives a closer fit to the hole and also avoids some problems with fretting wear when a screw thread bears against an unthreaded component.

A cross dowel is a cylindrically shaped metal nut (i.e., a metal dowel) that is used to join two pieces of wood. Like other metal nuts, it has an inside threaded hole, although the hole is unusual in that it passes through the sides of the dowel. One or both ends of the dowel are slotted, with the slots oriented parallel to the threaded hole through which the bolt will pass.

In a cross dowel application, the two pieces of wood are aligned and a bolt hole is drilled through one piece of wood and into the other. A dowel hole is drilled laterally across the bolt hole and the cross dowel is inserted into it.

[3ba11]

So I’ll repeat:

His career wasn’t necessarily better than them.

But he was a better player than all of them


Numerous guys were better than Dwight/AI/Kidd - the point is that Lebron isn't a winner - he just teamed up (and still mostly lost)

Before forming super-teams, he was a perennial loser heading towards the same winless career of all ball-dominators (that didn't play with Kareem)

[SaintzFury13]

I’ve been a member of this forum for not even a day and I’m already laughing at how laughably bad some of these anti LeBron threads are.

So for starters, LeBron was already a two time MVP, multiple all NBA team selections, a scoring title, two all defense team selections, and a multitude of NBA records. Keep in mind he was only 26 years old at that point.

So with all of that said, the argument can certainly be made that he already had a better career than Iverson. He not only had more MVPs and records to his name but he also wasn’t a well known cancer to his team like Iverson was. It was very clear that he had a far more positive impact on his team than Iverson ever could.

Dwight shouldn’t even be in this conversation. Yes, he had three DPOY selections but apart from that what else did he have? His 2009 finals run was his first significant year success wise, and the only reason his team even beat LeBrons (who had a dominant series against them FYI) is due to his team having far greater match up advantages.

Now Kidd on the other hand? Nah, at that point LeBron didn’t have a better career. But now I feel the need to ask: what is the point of this thread?

[ShawkFactory]

Numerous guys were better than Dwight/AI/Kidd - the point is that Lebron isn't a winner - he just teamed up (and still mostly lost)

Before forming super-teams, he was a perennial loser heading towards the same winless career of all ball-dominators (that didn't play with Kareem)

His career absolutely was better, in the sense that he was a better player.

We gonna compare Dwight and David Robinson pre-Duncan? Same careers am I right? Except Dwight made a finals.

[TheBranStan]

His career absolutely was better, in the sense that he was a better player.

We gonna compare Dwight and David Robinson pre-Duncan? Same careers am I right? Except Dwight made a finals.
Checkmate :applause:

[Gohan]

I’ve been a member of this forum for not even a day and I’m already laughing at how laughably bad some of these anti LeBron threads are.

So for starters, LeBron was already a two time MVP, multiple all NBA team selections, a scoring title, two all defense team selections, and a multitude of NBA records. Keep in mind he was only 26 years old at that point.

So with all of that said, the argument can certainly be made that he already had a better career than Iverson. He not only had more MVPs and records to his name but he also wasn’t a well known cancer to his team like Iverson was. It was very clear that he had a far more positive impact on his team than Iverson ever could.

Dwight shouldn’t even be in this conversation. Yes, he had three DPOY selections but apart from that what else did he have? His 2009 finals run was his first significant year success wise, and the only reason his team even beat LeBrons (who had a dominant series against them FYI) is due to his team having far greater match up advantages.

Now Kidd on the other hand? Nah, at that point LeBron didn’t have a better career. But now I feel the need to ask: what is the point of this thread?


Kill yourself please or just leave. Iverson is a cancer bullshit is old and tired

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Exactly. He played with wade/bosh

then he played with the greatest offensive point guard in the last 20 years in Kyrie Irving (only curry comes close)

Then he played with anthony Davis already the greatest playoff career TS and had his shot enhanced by the bubble.

Absolutely pancake stacked supporting cast.

[HunterSThompson]

LeBron was already a 2 time MVP

imagine being a league mvp and needing to chase guys to miami to learn how to win in the playoffs

the media prematurely bust their writers nut with lebron. shoulda waited on him to develop first

[1987_Lakers]

imagine being a league mvp and needing to chase guys to miami to learn how to win in the playoffs

the media prematurely bust their writers nut with lebron. shoulda waited on him to develop first

Kobe was having an MVP season but still asked for Pau to join the Lakers. :oldlol:

[sdot_thadon]

Kobe was having an MVP season but still asked for Pau to join the Lakers. :oldlol:

Ouch.

[1987_Lakers]

Ouch.

Not only that, but remember when Kobe was demanding the Lakers trade for Jason Kidd in 2007?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKI8K7GP3NM

[Joey Turnbuckle]

Iverson carried a bunch of bums to the finals. Imagine if he had actual good players to create space and defenders actually needed to guard. Give him Lebrons height and frame, Iverson is way better than Lebron.

And Dwight proved head to head he was the more dominant player than Lebron until back issues. He carried Turkeyglue and Retard Lewis past Lebron to the finals while eating that ass for breakfast. #3 seed Howard eliminating #1 seed Lebron 4-2.

[3ba11]

His career absolutely was better, in the sense that he was a better player.

We gonna compare Dwight and David Robinson pre-Duncan? Same careers am I right? Except Dwight made a finals.


I mistitled the thread.

The title made everyone think I was saying Kidd is as good as Lebron.

The real issue is what would Lebron be without super-teams or a teammate to outproduce him?.. He never won without that, while MJ, Kobe, and Giannis have

So how do we know that Lebron's skills can win with anything BUT a super-team?.. Without the super-team, is he just like all the other losing ball-dominators? (Cp3, Nash, Harden, etc).. 18 years and zero wins without a super-team or superior-producing teammate.

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs


Can Lebron's skills (ball-dominance) win with anything BUT a super-team or a teammate to outproduce him??

Without the super-team, is he just like all the other losing ball-dominators? (Cp3, Nash, Harden, etc).. Lebron has 18 years and zero wins without a super-team or superior-producing teammate

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe was having an MVP season but still asked for Pau to join the Lakers. :oldlol:


kobe already won 3 titles with 2 of them being dominant runs throughout the playoffs.. he already proved he could beat the best teams on the biggest stage

you can say shaq won the mvps vs indy, philly and jersey but kobe was the savior vs portland, sacramento and sanantonio

that means he deserved an mvp award somewhere down the road.


the problem with giving it to guys prematurely like lebron in 2009 and 2010 is that sometimes you give it to guys like nash in 06 and 07 and rose in 2011 then say "aw sh*t my bad."

what if lebron never started colluding and ended his career with a westbrook like career... then the media probly regrets their choice..

but even if kobe never won again he has multiple titles to go with that mvp and the writers don't look like utter buffoons

[HunterSThompson]

Ouch.

lol you guys never wait for me to respond

[SaintzFury13]

Kill yourself please or just leave. Iverson is a cancer bullshit is old and tired

Amazing how me calling Iverson a cancerous player got you that much. It's basketball. Stop acting like a bitch over it.

Oh and by the way, Iverson was a cancerous player.


.
Thread Cliffs


Can Lebron's skills (ball-dominance) win with anything BUT a super-team or a teammate to outproduce him??

Without the super-team, is he just like all the other losing ball-dominators? (Cp3, Nash, Harden, etc).. Lebron has 18 years and zero wins without a super-team or superior-producing teammate

I guess we're just going to ignore his win in 2016 where one of his all star teammates was injured for most of the series and the best he could give him was a 9 point, 13 rebound performance in game 7 (although he did play great in game 1, the Warriors won that game so it doesn't even matter). Your super team narrative holds very little weight and further demonstrates both your bias and lack of basketball knowledge.


kobe already won 3 titles with 2 of them being dominant runs throughout the playoffs.. he already proved he could beat the best teams on the biggest stage

you can say shaq won the mvps vs indy, philly and jersey but kobe was the savior vs portland, sacramento and sanantonio

that means he deserved an mvp award somewhere down the road.


the problem with giving it to guys prematurely like lebron in 2009 and 2010 is that sometimes you give it to guys like nash in 06 and 07 and rose in 2011 then say "aw sh*t my bad."

what if lebron never started colluding and ended his career with a westbrook like career... then the media probly regrets their choice..

but even if kobe never won again he has multiple titles to go with that mvp and the writers don't look like utter buffoons

Jesus, the more I read these threads the worse it gets.

So now we're describing scenarios where LeBron doesn't win any titles at all and thus that means his 2009 and 2010 MVP wins were premature? That's one of the stupidest ****ing things I've ever heard. MVP awards are not given based on your ability to win a championship, they're based on your regular season play, that's it. People criticize the Nash MVP awards because a legitimate argument can be made that he did not deserve those awards. Same with Rose although I don't necessarily agree that he didn't deserve it. There is no real argument that can be made regarding LeBron's first two MVP campaigns. He deserved both awards, as well as the ones he won in 2012 and 2013.

[HunterSThompson]

Not only that, but remember when Kobe was demanding the Lakers trade for Jason Kidd in 2007?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKI8K7GP3NM

if you found out you coulda got kidd for bynum but the owner wanted to waste your prime and just use you to sell tickets. what would be your response?


and didn't your idol that you never watched play demand a trade before and complain about management

your false idol is tragic the homo aids boy isn't it

[ShawkFactory]

Corey Maggette and Tracy McGrady both never made it out of the first round.

Same careers?

[Hey Yo]

Wake me up when a LBJ led team has a teammate who gets multiple FMVP votes for avg. 7ppg

[Spurs m8]

The only difference was the extra manufacturing and hype

[1987_Lakers]

if you found out you coulda got kidd for bynum but the owner wanted to waste your prime and just use you to sell tickets. what would be your response?


and didn't your idol that you never watched play demand a trade before and complain about management

your false idol is tragic the homo aids boy isn't it

So because LeBron wants some players around him it's bad for the league and means he can't win, but when Kobe wants some help it's because his prime is being wasted? Lol, okay bud.

Kobe needed to be a sidekick in order to win his first 3 chips, he needed Artest & Pau to bail him out after shooting 6-24 in the biggest game of his career. Every all-time great player that won had help, you can't win it alone.

[Joey Turnbuckle]

So because LeBron wants some players around him it's bad for the league and means he can't win, but when Kobe wants some help it's because his prime is being wasted? Lol, okay bud.

Kobe needed to be a sidekick in order to win his first 3 chips, he needed Artest & Pau to bail him out after shooting 6-24 in the biggest game of his career. Every all-time great player that won had help, you can't win it alone.


Kobe's team traded what they had to get those players.

Lebron colluded to screw the Cavs/Raptors in his own conference to sign with a new team, that already had a player that led his team to a title. Then he waited for the team he screwed to tank to get the assets before returning. Lebron is a dirtbag. Wants to be MJ but isn't even Giannis who has already surpassed LJ 23 wannabe. His new movie where he he continues pretending to be MJ 23 is also a hot pile of garbage.

[HunterSThompson]

So because LeBron wants some players around him it's bad for the league and means he can't win, but when Kobe wants some help it's because his prime is being wasted? Lol, okay bud.

Kobe needed to be a sidekick in order to win his first 3 chips, he needed Artest & Pau to bail him out after shooting 6-24 in the biggest game of his career. Every all-time great player that won had help, you can't win it alone.

kobe never once recruited any other stars while playing. he never had any say in who the lakers got. because thats collusion. thats tampering. because players can talk to each other outside of basketball. while GM's have to go about it the legal way under nba guidelines

kobe only ever said "get me some damn help" and if he heard about a trade that fell through. thats the only time he would speak on a specific guy because it was made public to him

he never got on the phone and told jason kidd to demand a trade and tank and sit and whine and shit his diaper then threaten other teams in order for him to force his way to the lakers

kobe never got on the phone and said "hey pau. you wanna be a laker? we can trade so and so for ya."



did you know that kevin garnett tried colluding with kobe. he left him a bunch of voice mails asking if he could come to LA before he agreed to the boston trade.

kobe never returned his calls because he wants to beat the other superstars in the league. he forced shaq out of LA. he wanted to win with a sidekick. not a 1B

kobes alpha

lebrons beta

thats the end of the f*cking story racoon boy

[1987_Lakers]

kobe never once recruited any other stars while playing. he never had any say in who the lakers got. because thats collusion. thats tampering. because players can talk to each other outside of basketball. while GM's have to go about it the legal way under nba guidelines

kobe only ever said "get me some damn help" and if he heard about a trade that fell through. thats the only time he would speak on a specific guy because it was made public to him

he never got on the phone and told jason kidd to demand a trade and tank and sit and whine and shit his diaper then threaten other teams in order for him to force his way to the lakers

kobe never got on the phone and said "hey pau. you wanna be a laker? we can trade so and so for ya."



did you know that kevin garnett tried colluding with kobe. he left him a bunch of voice mails asking if he could come to LA before he agreed to the boston trade.

kobe never returned his calls because he wants to beat the other superstars in the league. he forced shaq out of LA. he wanted to win with a sidekick. not a 1B

kobes alpha

lebrons beta

thats the end of the f*cking story racoon boy

Kobe didn't need to recruit because he already had peak Shaq, a better player than anyone LeBron has ever played with. Once the Lakers started losing Kobe immediately went into bitch mode. "Trade me" "Jason Kidd, help" "Damn, I missed KG's call". Once Pau joined, we started winning again, he bailed out Kobe's 6-24 shooting in game 7. LeBron in his first Finals appearance with the Lakers had a better series than Kobe can ever dream of in the Finals.

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe didn't need to recruit because he already had peak Shaq, a better player any player LeBron has ever played with. Once the Lakers started losing Kobe immediately went into bitch mode. "Trade me" "Jason Kidd, help" "Damn, I missed KG's call". Once Pau joined, we started winning again, he bailed out Kobe's 6-24 shooting in game 7. LeBron in his first Finals appearance with the Lakers had a better series than Kobe can ever dream of in the Finals.

so now you're putting lebrons prime collusions in the same category as shaq signing with LA weeks after kobe already got there as a 17 year old that knew it would take 4-5 years from them to compete as a combo or for him to get any credit or respect for winning anyway

kobe and shaq never talked. they never got on the phone and gossiped about how cool it would be to play together giggling like little school girls like your idol

and wtf are you talking about once LA started losing. kobe sat completely silent for almost 3 years and just played his game until phil jackson told him about jerry buss's plan to wait on bynum and use kobe as a circus act to fill the seats until then... when he found out the team wasn't trying to compete he voiced his opinion an said they have to win now and trade whatever they could to get players LEGALLY

he never gave a list of guys he wanted. he said do your jobs and i'l do mine

and once kobe had just one boarderline star that made just one bench reserve ASG in 7 years and had zero playoff victories has leader the lakers started making the finals immediately. he didn't need another superstar. just a really good second option averaging 18 points.. he didn't need a former finals mvp in wade or a kyrie/davis type averaging nearly 30 in the post season

kobe didn't need a 3rd option that was a perennial allstar.. just a 0 allstar game career crack head was good enough...


and kobe bailed himself out of that 6 for 24 game by holding pierce and allen to 8 for 30 and dominating the last 15 minutes of the game and grabbing 15 rebounds himself. he had a hand in every play on both ends down the stretch.


you will never beat me in a debate racoon boy. now get back in your garbage can

[1987_Lakers]

so now you're putting lebrons prime collusions in the same category as shaq signing with LA weeks after kobe already got there as a 17 year old that knew it would take 4-5 years from them to compete as a combo or for him to get any credit or respect for winning anyway

kobe and shaq never talked. they never got on the phone and gossiped about how cool it would be to play together giggling like little school girls like your idol

and wtf are you talking about once LA started losing. kobe sat completely silent for almost 3 years and just played his game until phil jackson told him about jerry buss's plan to wait on bynum and use kobe as a circus act to fill the seats until then... when he found out the team wasn't trying to compete he voiced his opinion an said they have to win now and trade whatever they could to get players LEGALLY

he never gave a list of guys he wanted. he said do your jobs and i'l do mine

and once kobe had just one boarderline star that made just one bench reserve ASG in 7 years and had zero playoff victories has leader the lakers started making the finals immediately. he didn't need another superstar. just a really good second option averaging 18 points.. he didn't need a former finals mvp in wade or a kyrie/davis type averaging nearly 30 in the post season

kobe didn't need a 3rd option that was a perennial allstar.. just a 0 allstar game career crack head was good enough...


and kobe bailed himself out of that 6 for 24 game by holding pierce and allen to 8 for 30 and dominating the last 15 minutes of the game and grabbing 15 rebounds himself. he had a hand in every play on both ends down the stretch.


you will never beat me in a debate racoon boy. now get back in your garbage can

Still doesn't change the fact that Kobe played with a top 8 player ever at his peak and when Miami was winning championships, Wade was past his prime, he was pretty much Pau Gasol tier at that point, All-star level, not superstar, look at the years Miami and Lakers won back to back titles, both Wade & Gasol produced around the same. Hell, Lamar Odom was 10x more valuable than Kevin Love was with the Cavs, so in a sense Kobe did need an elite 3rd option. LeBron won with a bad 3rd option, so did Kobe with Shaq's team, only difference is LeBron was the best player and won Finals MVP, Kobe was second fiddle.

[Axe]

Not only that, but remember when Kobe was demanding the Lakers trade for Jason Kidd in 2007?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKI8K7GP3NM
Why didn't he just leave hollywood instead?

[1987_Lakers]

Why didn't he just leave hollywood instead?

Cause he called Pau to save the day.

[Axe]

Cause he called Pau to save the day.
I suppose it makes sense, since he was the catalyst to allowing him to have his two finals mvp in their three finals together.

[HunterSThompson]

Still doesn't change the fact that Kobe played with a top 8 player ever at his peak and when Miami was winning championships, Wade was past his prime, he was pretty much Pau Gasol tier at that point, All-star level, not superstar, look at the years Miami and Lakers won back to back titles, both Wade & Gasol produced around the same. Hell, Lamar Odom was 10x more valuable than Kevin Love was with the Cavs, so in a sense Kobe did need an elite 3rd option. LeBron won with a bad 3rd option, so did Kobe with Shaq, only difference is LeBron was the best player and won Finals MVP, Kobe was second fiddle.

again. kobe proved he never needed shaq. just a boarderline allstar... lebron never proved he could win without a 1B or a collection of them sacrificing to make all the other 1B's happy


if it was just bran and wade the entire time wade can average his usual 25 a game and nobody says "oh look. hes washed up" lol


and when you have guys like battier, miller, cole, chalmers and others all taking turns having huge games it also makes wades job easier. doesn't take away the fact that wades presence opens things up and he can still take over when needed in a clutch situation.

obviously when you stack a team with a ridiculous amount of talent and the lead dog doesn't wanna sacrifice everyone else is forced to


you can't say guys like kevin love weren't great just because lebron changed their roles... he was averaging 20/15 before becoming lebrons stretch 4

imagine kobe let garnett join and also called up tmac and some other guys then made them fight for shots while kobe still gunned for 30

then kobe fans were like "hey look... garnetts averaging 15 points. he sucks


you're a f*ggot. retire from ISH lol

[HunterSThompson]

Cause he called Pau to save the day.

only guys i ever heard of calling other men up and begging for their help is lebron, draymond, garnett, KD and kawhi

don't know of any other confirmed cases of this off the top of my head

[1987_Lakers]

again. kobe proved he never needed shaq. just a boarderline allstar... lebron never proved he could win without a 1B or a collection of them sacrificing to make all the other 1B's happy


if it was just bran and wade the entire time wade can average his usual 25 a game and nobody says "oh look. hes washed up" lol


and when you have guys like battier, miller, cole, chalmers and others all taking turns having huge games it also makes wades job easier. doesn't take away the fact that wades presence opens things up and he can still take over when needed in a clutch situation.

obviously when you stack a team with a ridiculous amount of talent and the lead dog doesn't wanna sacrifice everyone else is forced to


you can't say guys like kevin love weren't great just because lebron changed their roles... he was averaging 20/15 before becoming lebrons stretch 4

imagine kobe let garnett join and also called up tmac and some other guys then made them fight for shots while kobe still gunned for 30

then kobe fans were like "hey look... garnetts averaging 15 points. he sucks


you're a f*ggot. retire from ISH lol

Kobe needed elite frontcourt play in order to win. He needed Shaq, he needed Pau/Odom/Bynum.

Look at Pau & Wade's playoff stats from when they won...
Pau - 19|11|3|2 on 56 fg% . 23 PER
Wade - 19|5|5|2 on 46 fg% . 21 PER

"But but but, Wade was a superstar when Bron won." Pau outplayed Wade in their championship runs. LMAO

If Kevin Love was so good why didn't he even make the playoffs before he joined the Cavs? Why did Kevin Love REGRESS as a player once LeBron left? It's well known he was an empty stats player for the Wolves. Why did Wade's scoring efficiency drop significantly once LeBron left?

[red1]

you've made this thread every month for 5 years now.



just deal with it dude. you lost.

[1987_Lakers]

The funny thing is LeBron already proved he can carry bums to the Finals in 2018, peak Kobe with bums was getting knocked out in the first round.

[Axe]

Yup, and also kobe never got to the finals without the triangle. Something which he personally found to be mundane because it didn't allow him to be more creative in his shots.

[red1]

The funny thing is LeBron already proved he can carry bums to the Finals in 2018, peak Kobe with bums was getting knocked out in the first round.

dude OP used to create essays on why mo williams is a better basketball player than pippen


he literally singlehandedly showed me how overrated jordan's legacy was.



jordan never faced a single team as good as the spurs that kobe and lebron played...







not a single team...

[red1]

jordan's 6/6 is very weak when you realize that pippen led the bulls to 50+wins while baldan was banned from the league....





baldan wouldnt have even made the playoffs with the trash kobe had in 06...

[HunterSThompson]

Kobe needed elite frontcourt play in order to win. He needed Shaq, he needed Pau/Odom/Bynum.

Look at Pau & Wade's playoff stats from when they won...
Pau - 19|11|3|2 on 56 fg% . 23 PER
Wade - 19|5|5|2 on 46 fg% . 21 PER

"But but but, Wade was a superstar when Bron won." Pau outplayed Wade in their championship runs. LMAO

If Kevin Love was so good why didn't he even make the playoffs before he joined the Cavs? Why did Kevin Love REGRESS as a player once LeBron left? It's well known he was an empty stats player for the Wolves. Why did Wade's scoring efficiency drop significantly once LeBron left?

nobody ever said kobe or anyone else can win on their own ( except delusional lebron fans prior to their kang getting exposed in the west )

and lamar isn't a dominant big. he never made a single allstar game. stop overrating him

bynum barely played or contributed to either ring. he was riding the bench the entire 4th

gasol was never a dominant defensive player. he was just a good scorer. not a great one



kobe attained all his teammates organically so you can't hate. this isn't about having good teammates. its about colluding with them. its about calling people up on other teams that were actual superstars in the league with many allstar games under their belt and dominating statistics as #1 guys

gasol was never that guy. bynum showed a glimps for 1 year. odom was out of the nba after 2012


kobe did what lebron has still yet to accomplish. win organically. win with self respect. win with dignity. win without any major asterisks


lebron may never do it

if i were you i would just go the jeff/steve route and brag about all time leading playoff points or something. this isn't for you

[HunterSThompson]

Yup, and also kobe never got to the finals without the triangle. Something which he personally found to be mundane because it didn't allow him to be more creative in his shots.

lol thats a new one. rip kobe for being able to play in an offense that doesn't pad his stats and actually sacrifices his numbers

lebron in a triangle would be like melo. he would quit and beg for phil to go

[red1]

nobody ever said kobe or anyone else can win on their own ( except delusional lebron fans prior to their kang getting exposed in the west )

and lamar isn't a dominant big. he never made a single allstar game. stop overrating him

bynum barely played or contributed to either ring. he was riding the bench the entire 4th

gasol was never a dominant defensive player. he was just a good scorer. not a great one



kobe attained all his teammates organically so you can't hate. this isn't about having good teammates. its about colluding with them. its about calling people up on other teams that were actual superstars in the league with many allstar games under their belt and dominating statistics as #1 guys

gasol was never that guy. bynum showed a glimps for 1 year. odom was out of the nba after 2012


kobe did what lebron has still yet to accomplish. win organically. win with self respect. win with dignity. win without any major asterisks


lebron may never do it

if i were you i would just go the jeff/steve route and brag about all time leading playoff points or something. this isn't for you

kobe fans are absolutely disqualified from hating on lbj.


I mean they can still do it but they look stupid.




kobe stans used to claim that lebron was a giannis aka a regular season player. 2011 made you guys looks smart.



since then lebron has dominated - absolutely dominated - the playoffs and the finals.



if kd didnt join the warriors we'd be looking at 5 or 6 finals MVPs no probem - he was the best player in the playoffs and finals 7 years in a row.





kobe is an all-time great a top-7 player.



he's no lebron aka a top-2 player.

[HunterSThompson]

kobe fans are absolutely disqualified from hating on lbj.


I mean they can still do it but they look stupid.




kobe stans used to claim that lebron was a giannis aka a regular season player. 2011 made you guys looks smart.



since then lebron has dominated - absolutely dominated - the playoffs and the finals.



if kd didnt join the warriors we'd be looking at 5 or 6 finals MVPs no probem - he was the best player in the playoffs and finals 7 years in a row.





kobe is an all-time great a top-7 player.



he's no lebron aka a top-2 player.

just do 1 space in between each line. your trying to copy my style but it doesn't work if you over do it by adding like 4 or 5 spaces in between each sentence

[1987_Lakers]

nobody ever said kobe or anyone else can win on their own ( except delusional lebron fans prior to their kang getting exposed in the west )

and lamar isn't a dominant big. he never made a single allstar game. stop overrating him

bynum barely played or contributed to either ring. he was riding the bench the entire 4th

gasol was never a dominant defensive player. he was just a good scorer. not a great one



kobe attained all his teammates organically so you can't hate. this isn't about having good teammates. its about colluding with them. its about calling people up on other teams that were actual superstars in the league with many allstar games under their belt and dominating statistics as #1 guys

gasol was never that guy. bynum showed a glimps for 1 year. odom was out of the nba after 2012


kobe did what lebron has still yet to accomplish. win organically. win with self respect. win with dignity. win without any major asterisks


lebron may never do it

if i were you i would just go the jeff/steve route and brag about all time leading playoff points or something. this isn't for you

The '09-11 Lakers were known for having the best frontcourt in the NBA, so yes, they had an elite frontcourt, they often beat teams with their size.

Despite Kobe having "organic" teammates it still doesn't change the fact that he was always 2nd fiddle to Shaq, and usually underperformed in the Finals. Thank God for Pau & Artest saving us in that game 7, I've never seen a superstar fail in a game 7 of the NBA Finals like I saw Kobe did that night.

In the end, this will be Kobe's legacy...

2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg% (Don't really fault Kobe here, he got injured and not in his offensive prime)
2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%
2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%
2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%
2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%
2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%
2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%

:roll:

[red1]

just do 1 space in between each line. your trying to copy my style but it doesn't work if you over do it by adding like 4 or 5 spaces in between each sentence

I dont mind copying anyone's style. I honestly post very freely the reason I make those spaces is to make my points easier to read.


I havent paid much attention to your posts kenny even though I can tell that is clearly you.


your views are VERY obvious.

[Axe]

jordan's 6/6 is very weak when you realize that pippen led the bulls to 50+wins while baldan was banned from the league....





baldan wouldnt have even made the playoffs with the trash kobe had in 06...
Hey, last time i checked basketball is a team game. Don't be a goddamn retard.

[red1]

The '09-11 Lakers were known for having the best frontcourt in the NBA, so yes, they had an elite frontcourt, they often beat teams with their size.

Despite Kobe having "organic" teammates it still doesn't change the fact that he was always 2nd fiddle to Shaq, and usually underperformed in the Finals. Thank God for Pau & Artest saving us in that game 7, I've never seen a superstar fail in a game 7 of the NBA Finals like I saw Kobe did that night.

In the end, this will be Kobe's legacy...

2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg% (Don't really fault Kobe here, he got injured and not in his offensive prime)
2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%
2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%
2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%
2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%
2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%
2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%

:roll:

lebron was the best player in the nba regular season playoffs AND finals every single year from 2012 until 2018



thats 7 years of dominating every single night - if we want to include dominating the regular season and playoffs we can go back to 2008 or 2009....




he'd have 7 rings if he was playing against jordan's finals competition every year...

[red1]

Hey, last time i checked basketball is a team game. Don't be a goddamn retard.

yeah exactly my point- 3ball claims that pippen and the rest of the bulls were scrubs he claims the bulls supporting cast was inferior to the current bucks and early cavs cast WITHOUT giannis or lebron




meanwhile the evidence proves the EXACT opposite aka they were a 50+win team WITHOUT baldan...







3ball says that mo williams> pippen and varejao> grant and varejao> bulls rodman...





all obvious mentally ill takes...

[1987_Lakers]

lebron was the best player in the nba regular season playoffs AND finals every single year from 2012 until 2018


I never actually thought about it that way, but you are right. 7 straight years of pure domination, Kobe could only dream of doing something like that.

[red1]

I never actually thought about it that way, but you are right. 7 straight years of pure domination, Kobe could only dream of doing something like that.

dude if it was malone and stockton every year and not the 2013 and 2014 spurs or the kd warriors aka the most stacked team of all-time...


lebron would be the first time 7x finals MVP in nba history...




but theres no complaint because this stacked competition is what gives lebron his GOAT case - he's the only player with a finals MVP over a 70-win team - "but but dray suspension" <----- we'll let them whine :oldlol:



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b3/75/c7/b375c7a409b2c1eaafcf56ef23a110b3.jpg

[SaintzFury13]

The funny thing is LeBron already proved he can carry bums to the Finals in 2018, peak Kobe with bums was getting knocked out in the first round.

Are we really going to sit here and pretend that Kevin Love wasn't instrumental to Cleveland getting to the finals that year? I mean I guess we can agree that the ECF were a total carry job on LeBron's part, but Kevin Love was a key piece in Cleveland just barely edging out Indiana in the first round and He was dominant in the series against Toronto. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Cavaliers don't get past Toronto without Kevin, but we should at the very least give the man some credit on the performances he gave LeBron as his legitimate number 2 option on offense after Kyrie was gone.

[HunterSThompson]

The '09-11 Lakers were known for having the best frontcourt in the NBA, so yes, they had an elite frontcourt, they often beat teams with their size.

Despite Kobe having "organic" teammates it still doesn't change the fact that he was always 2nd fiddle to Shaq, and usually underperformed in the Finals. Thank God for Pau & Artest saving us in that game 7, I've never seen a superstar fail in a game 7 of the NBA Finals like I saw Kobe did that night.

In the end, this will be Kobe's legacy...

2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg% (Don't really fault Kobe here, he got injured and not in his offensive prime)
2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%
2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%
2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%
2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%
2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%
2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%

:roll:

kobes legacy is cemented. hes dead and gone. he got john lennoned/tupac'd/Kurt cobained into NBA history.

the things i say about lebron people still say on talk shows. all people say about kobe is "him and mike this or him and mike that. he had that killer will, that mamba mentality, this guys like magic, kobe, jordan, bird and so on"

when i see a debate about lebron people still bring up his ring chasing, his failures, his bail out shots, the draymond thing... and people are starting to bring up his failure with society and young black america. how hes killing off the league and its fans and making people hate themselves and other races

theres a great thread about it that i made today. come take a look see any time

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496117-Lebron-caused-the-downfall-of-society-and-destroyed-america



nobody... and i mean NOBODY is bringing up that kobe shot 40% in any of his finals ... you're the only one i know of on earth thats fixated on the shooting percentages of a guy that won


he won who cares. everyone shot bad back then ( and here comes MY copy and paste moment to one up yours as per usual )



reggies 2000 finals = 41%fgs
M Jackson 2000 finals = 41% fg's
iversons 2001 finals = 40%fgs
snow 2001 finals = 40%fgs
mckie 2001 finals = 31%fg's
bell 2001 finals = 30%fg's
kidds 2002 finals = 43%fg's
Hamilton 2004 finals = 40%fg's
prince 2004 finals = 38%fg's
pierce 2008 finals = 43%fg's ( finals MVP )
Rondo 2008 finals = 37%fg's
Alston 2009 finals = 36%fg's
lee 2009 finals = 37%fg's
reddick 2009 finals = 40%fg's
nelson 2009 finals = 34%fg's
pierce 2010 finals = 43%fg's
ray 2010 finals = 36%fg's
tony allen 2010 finals = 33%fg's



we can do this every day i don't mind. i don't work. i have all kinds of free time and my prime is over. knowing i'm wasting the tail end of yours will be more than satisfying



but if you wanna say its not the era and its just that kobe was an elite defensive player ( regardless of what vengeful father of a daughter that got raped phil jackson thought in 2004 )

then so be it

lets compare kobes defense to lebrons in the finals





Parker - 53% ( finals MVP )
Terry - 50%
Marion - 48%
Dirk - 42% ( finals MVP )
Durant - 55%
Kawhi - 51% 2013
Diaw - 50%
Kawhi - 61% 2014 ( finals MVP )
Manu - 50%
Iguodala - 52% ( finals MVP )
Green - 49% ( should be finals MVP. thanks silver ) 2016
Durant - 56% ( finals MVP ) 2017
Iguodala - 53%
Durant - 53% ( finals MVP ) 2018
Green - 52% 2018
Iguodala - 58% 2018
Butler - 55%



woops


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/3c/85/113c8560a589d6a67b57b0b423e88cee.jpg


hey whered you go

[1987_Lakers]

Are we really going to sit here and pretend that Kevin Love wasn't instrumental in Cleveland getting to the finals that year? I mean I guess we can agree that the ECF were a total carry job on LeBron's part, but Kevin Love was a key piece in Cleveland just barely edging out Indiana in the first round and He was dominant in the series against Toronto. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Cavaliers don't get past Toronto without Kevin, but we should at the very least give the man some credit on the performances he gave LeBron as his legitimate number 2 option on offense after Kyrie was gone.

You obviously didn't watch the playoffs that year. He had one good series vs Toronto and was absolutely atrocious throughout the rest of the playoffs. Kevin Love that postseason averaged 15 ppg on 39% shooting, are you really gonna call that good? Hell, Lamar Odom produced more than Kevin Love when the Lakers were getting eliminated in the first round in 2006 and 2007.

[red1]

nobody ever said kobe or anyone else can win on their own ( except delusional lebron fans prior to their kang getting exposed in the west )

young lebron would have single-handedly dominated every. single. team. in the west including the suns this year



watch the lakers make the finals next year no problem once AD heals up this summer :oldlol:

[HunterSThompson]

I never actually thought about it that way, but you are right. 7 straight years of pure domination, Kobe could only dream of doing something like that.

its hard to think about something that isn't true. unless you're fishing for something to help you sleep at night knowing lebrons career is practically over now that hes a fat alcoholic hollyweirdo making failed movies instead of improving his team or his conditioning. he'd rather smoke cigars and drink wine


4 asterisk rings is likely the end of the line. damn. he was so close

[HunterSThompson]

young lebron would have single-handedly dominated every. single. team. in the west including the suns this year



watch the lakers make the finals next year no problem once AD heals up this summer :oldlol:

why did he leave cleveland then in 2010 if he never needed anyone

[HunterSThompson]

You obviously didn't watch the playoffs that year.

a guy that said rondo sucked in the 2020 finals saying this is kinda funny. racoon boy might finally be serving a purpose now. the board circus clown

https://media.tenor.com/images/ef12ab88bc97bad8144ae02c88ccf678/tenor.gif

[red1]

Are we really going to sit here and pretend that Kevin Love wasn't instrumental to Cleveland getting to the finals that year? I mean I guess we can agree that the ECF were a total carry job on LeBron's part, but Kevin Love was a key piece in Cleveland just barely edging out Indiana in the first round and He was dominant in the series against Toronto. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Cavaliers don't get past Toronto without Kevin, but we should at the very least give the man some credit on the performances he gave LeBron as his legitimate number 2 option on offense after Kyrie was gone.

kevin love is a very good player he's a good shooter under pressure because of his size and he's a good teammate


if lebron had love healthy in 2015 without the olynyk injury it would've been enough to get the cavs to back-to-back titles - love would've made the rotations FAR easier for the cavs with that extra skilled big man


if you're saying love is enough to compete with the warriors with kd steph klay dray and iggy WITHOUT kyrie - then you're just wrong sorry.

[SaintzFury13]

kevin love is a very good player he's a good shooter under pressure because of his size and he's a good teammate


if lebron had love healthy in 2015 without the olynyk injury it would've been enough to get the cavs to back-to-back titles - love would've made the rotations FAR easier for the cavs with that extra skilled big man


if you're saying love is enough to compete with the warriors with kd steph klay dray and iggy WITHOUT kyrie - then you're just wrong sorry.

Not sure where you got the impression that I was saying that, but even with Kyrie that wasn't enough against that team. It didn't really matter what LeBron did, he was going to lose in the finals regardless.


You obviously didn't watch the playoffs that year. He had one good series vs Toronto and was absolutely atrocious throughout the rest of the playoffs. Kevin Love that postseason averaged 15 ppg on 39% shooting, are you really gonna call that good? Hell, Lamar Odom produced more than Kevin Love when the Lakers were getting eliminated in the first round in 2006 and 2007.

Re-read what I just said.

I said he was dominant in the Toronto series and was key to Cleveland edging out Indiana in game 7. In what way does that = he was great throughout all of the playoffs?

Edit: Apparently I didn't specify that I was talking about game 7 in that Indiana series. I thought I did. That is my mistake. My point still stands.

[red1]

why did he leave cleveland then in 2010 if he never needed anyone

those cavs were elite on on defense and were good enough to compete against good offensive teams or great defensive teams with limited offensive talent (the cavs with mo williams choking and no other offense could still hang with the celtics aka an elite defensive team because of bron-ball offense and great defense).


if you think they were beating the kobe +gasol/odom lakers or the old spurs with a young infusion of talent in kawhi and mills/green who couldnt miss an open three if their life depended on it- the cavs wer FAAAAR outmatched


they literally needed lebron to be the GOAT and it still wasnt enough at times... he could still do it though....

[1987_Lakers]

its hard to think about something that isn't true. unless you're fishing for something to help you sleep at night knowing lebrons career is practically over now that hes a fat alcoholic hollyweirdo making failed movies instead of improving his team or his conditioning. he'd rather smoke cigars and drink wine


4 asterisk rings is likely the end of the line. damn. he was so close

I know I have you beat once you bring up rigging and asterisk rings, that to me tells me you have nothing else to add and have lost. Better luck next time no lips.

[Axe]

Not sure where you got the impression that I was saying that, but even with Kyrie that wasn't enough against that team. It didn't really matter what LeBron did, he was going to lose in the finals regardless.
This is agreeable. Plus, the disparity between him and his teammates back then is what also allowed him to get away leading in each categories. But if he did have all-star teammates like the warriors did in their finals runs, then that likely wouldn't be the case as those will be distributed evenly.

[SaintzFury13]

kobes legacy is cemented. hes dead and gone. he got john lennoned/tupac'd/Kurt cobained into NBA history.

the things i say about lebron people still say on talk shows. all people say about kobe is "him and mike this or him and mike that. he had that killer will, that mamba mentality, this guys like magic, kobe, jordan, bird and so on"

when i see a debate about lebron people still bring up his ring chasing, his failures, his bail out shots, the draymond thing... and people are starting to bring up his failure with society and young black america. how hes killing off the league and its fans and making people hate themselves and other races

theres a great thread about it that i made today. come take a look see any time

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496117-Lebron-caused-the-downfall-of-society-and-destroyed-america



nobody... and i mean NOBODY is bringing up that kobe shot 40% in any of his finals ... you're the only one i know of on earth thats fixated on the shooting percentages of a guy that won


he won who cares. everyone shot bad back then ( and here comes MY copy and paste moment to one up yours as per usual )



reggies 2000 finals = 41%fgs
M Jackson 2000 finals = 41% fg's
iversons 2001 finals = 40%fgs
snow 2001 finals = 40%fgs
mckie 2001 finals = 31%fg's
bell 2001 finals = 30%fg's
kidds 2002 finals = 43%fg's
Hamilton 2004 finals = 40%fg's
prince 2004 finals = 38%fg's
pierce 2008 finals = 43%fg's ( finals MVP )
Rondo 2008 finals = 37%fg's
Alston 2009 finals = 36%fg's
lee 2009 finals = 37%fg's
reddick 2009 finals = 40%fg's
nelson 2009 finals = 34%fg's
pierce 2010 finals = 43%fg's
ray 2010 finals = 36%fg's
tony allen 2010 finals = 33%fg's



we can do this every day i don't mind. i don't work. i have all kinds of free time and my prime is over. knowing i'm wasting the tail end of yours will be more than satisfying



but if you wanna say its not the era and its just that kobe was an elite defensive player ( regardless of what vengeful father of a daughter that got raped phil jackson thought in 2004 )

then so be it

lets compare kobes defense to lebrons in the finals





Parker - 53% ( finals MVP )
Terry - 50%
Marion - 48%
Dirk - 42% ( finals MVP )
Durant - 55%
Kawhi - 51% 2013
Diaw - 50%
Kawhi - 61% 2014 ( finals MVP )
Manu - 50%
Iguodala - 52% ( finals MVP )
Green - 49% ( should be finals MVP. thanks silver ) 2016
Durant - 56% ( finals MVP ) 2017
Iguodala - 53%
Durant - 53% ( finals MVP ) 2018
Green - 52% 2018
Iguodala - 58% 2018
Butler - 55%



woops


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/3c/85/113c8560a589d6a67b57b0b423e88cee.jpg


hey whered you go

You really just brought out stats for players LeBron didn't routinely guard to try to prove LeBron wasn't a good defensive player in the finals.

This is levels of idiocy I didn't think was imaginable.

[warriorfan]

Love stats Pre-LeBron - 26/13/2/59% TS

Bosh stats Pre-LeBron - 24/11/2/59% TS

Pau stats Pre-Kobe - 19/8/3/59% TS

It's safe to say that Kevin Love and Chris Bosh were better than Pau Gasol before they joined with their new teams

LeBron needed Bosh and Love as third options when he won

Kobe had Paul Gasol as a second option when he won

[red1]

why did he leave cleveland then in 2010 if he never needed anyone

I watched every single playoffs cavs game in 2009 and 2010- why wouldnt he leave?


the only people who had a right to complain were cavs fans - which they did and I dont criticize because we know they're a good fanbase





why wouldnt he leave when mo williams bricked every WIDE open shot in 2009? that literally cost a ring because 2009 lebron is literally better than every single finals MVP of the of the last 5 years - including 2020 lebron.

[1987_Lakers]

You really just brought out stats for players LeBron didn't routinely guard to try to prove LeBron wasn't a good defensive player in the finals.

This is levels of idiocy I didn't think was imaginable.

I think it's his way of trying to troll, very bad trolling I might add, good trolling is always mixed with some truth in it.

[1987_Lakers]

Love stats Pre-LeBron - 26/13/2/59% TS

Bosh stats Pre-LeBron - 24/11/2/59% TS

Pau stats Pre-Kobe - 19/8/3/59% TS

It's safe to say that Kevin Love and Chris Bosh were better than Pau Gasol before they joined with their new teams

LeBron needed Bosh and Love as third options when he won

Kobe had Paul Gasol as a second option when he won



Curry before KD: 0 Finals MVPs
Currt after KD: 0 Finals MVPs

[Axe]

Curry before KD: 0 Finals MVPs
Currt after KD: 0 Finals MVPs
:roll:

[HunterSThompson]

I know I have you beat once you bring up rigging and asterisk rings, that to me tells me you have nothing else to add and have lost. Better luck next time no lips.

once i bring up rigging and asterisk rings?

wtf .. thats the whole f*cking narrative. its what i start every discussion about lebron with. thats the entire reason hes hated so much lol


no lips? wtf this dudes into me

[SaintzFury13]

This is agreeable. Plus, the disparity between him and his teammates back then is what also allowed him to get away leading in each categories. But if he did have all-star teammates like the warriors did in their finals runs, then that likely wouldn't be the case as those will be distributed evenly.

The problem with this is that it wasn't just a matter of the Warriors having multiple all star players. They already had a built in system that KD just happened to join. That's one of the advantages of having a home grown team that played together for years and formed legitimate chemistry with each other. It's one of the reasons why LeBron's teams never sustained that same level of dominance. Obviously 2014 is an example of a clearly better team destroying a legitimately great Miami Heat team (despite Wade showing clear signs of decline and Bosh failing to live up to his usual standards in that series). But you can absolutely bet that Miami were going to be legitimate favorites again in 2015 and probably would have made it to the finals no problem if LeBron were still there, especially with the emergence of Hassan Whiteside as a legitimate inside presence on both ends of the floor (more so defense, although he still fouled A LOT and lacked basic decision making skills). Oddly enough, it's also one of the reasons why LeBron going to Miami in 2010 might have been pointless in the end. Boston was on a clear decline in 2010 and I'm not fully convinced that Bosh going to Miami would have been enough for the Heat to be legitimate title contenders since they only had one other player on the roster at that point (not to mention the only reason Bosh ever went to Miami in the first place is because they were pretty much convinced at that point that LeBron was going to go there too. I imagine that if LeBron made it clear his intentions were to stay in Cleveland no matter what, Bosh doesn't go to Miami, or hell, considers going to Cleveland instead). The Cavaliers won 60 games in two straight seasons. They were still clearly at the very least a legitimately good team that were more than capable of making another legitimate playoff run. I sometimes think that LeBron would have been better off staying in Cleveland, waiting for the Cavaliers to make a trade with the assets that they had, and contend with what he had. Bouncing around to Miami and then back to Cleveland had its obvious benefits but one of the consequences of doing so is losing the chemistry that made the Cavaliers a 60 win team in the first place. I sometimes go back and watch the 2015 Cavaliers and I can't help but notice how dysfunctional they are as a team even in the playoffs despite having a relatively stacked roster. Then I watch them play in 2017 and although they do have some obvious roster changes, the difference is still completely night and day.


once i bring up rigging and asterisk rings?

wtf .. thats the whole f*cking narrative. its what i start every discussion about lebron with. thats the entire reason hes hated so much lol


no lips? wtf this dudes into me

One of the reasons LeBron is hated so much is because MJ stans know that he is the only person in NBA history who has any legitimate claim at being a better player than him. I personally don't see the argument for LeBron being superior, but I can acknowledge that a lot of the hate LeBron receives is either laughable or has no real merit. No person I know thinks LeBron's four rings have an asterisk. That's a laughable narrative created by morons like yourself who don't have a clue as to how the sport world works.

[1987_Lakers]

no lips? wtf this dudes into me


where did racoon boy go. i wish he would show us his picture again. i miss his dark eyes

other way around balding chump.

[HunterSThompson]

https://i.ibb.co/ZJ5WFq7/Screen-Shot-2021-07-24-at-8-14-13-PM.png





who did lebron guard if he didn't guard these guys lol

Parker - 53% ( finals MVP )
Terry - 50%
Marion - 48%
Dirk - 42% ( finals MVP )
Durant - 55%
Kawhi - 51% 2013
Diaw - 50%
Kawhi - 61% 2014 ( finals MVP )
Manu - 50%
Iguodala - 52% ( finals MVP )
Green - 49% ( should be finals MVP. thanks silver ) 2016
Durant - 56% ( finals MVP ) 2017
Iguodala - 53%
Durant - 53% ( finals MVP ) 2018
Green - 52% 2018
Iguodala - 58% 2018
Butler - 55%

[red1]

Curry before KD: 0 Finals MVPs
Currt after KD: 0 Finals MVPs

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif

[1987_Lakers]

One of the reasons LeBron is hated so much is because MJ stans know that he is the only person in NBA history who has any legitimate claim at being a better player than him. I personally don't see the argument for LeBron being superior, but I can acknowledge that a lot of the hate LeBron receives is either laughable or has no real merit. No person I know thinks LeBron's four rings have an asterisk. That's a laughable narrative created by morons like yourself who don't have a clue as to how the sport world works.

This 100%. Once kenneth brings up rigging and asterisks he brings himself to such a low level it's better to just walk away at that point instead of debating.

[SaintzFury13]

Love stats Pre-LeBron - 26/13/2/59% TS

Bosh stats Pre-LeBron - 24/11/2/59% TS

Pau stats Pre-Kobe - 19/8/3/59% TS

It's safe to say that Kevin Love and Chris Bosh were better than Pau Gasol before they joined with their new teams

LeBron needed Bosh and Love as third options when he won

Kobe had Paul Gasol as a second option when he won



Kevin Love as LeBron's third option on offense in the only title LeBron ever won with Cleveland:

8.5 PPG and 6.8 RPG, including 9 points on 3-9 shooting in game 7 of that very same series.

This is why I don't take arguments like this seriously, because there are people like you who are too lazy to do any actual research when you make arguments like these and you just end up looking like morons in the end.

[warriorfan]

Curry before KD: 0 Finals MVPs
Currt after KD: 0 Finals MVPs

Manlet meltdown

[1987_Lakers]

Manlet meltdown

Crackhead meltdown

[red1]

Manlet meltdown

thought it was a great post tbh.



lebron.


























curry.

[red1]

its not even a debate anymore.

[HunterSThompson]

https://i.ibb.co/xJJs8MH/Screen-Shot-2021-07-24-at-8-18-09-PM.png








---------------------



you're losing your mind again. this is like when you started bumping threads from 10 years ago replying to dead people. you just quoted a guy talking about mj stans picking on lebron and you use me as an example? i'm not an MJ stan. and the only MJ stan on ISH is 3ball because the rest are satisfied with MJ's gap between he and lebron. only 3ball still gives you people the time of day because hes insane. you lebron fans spend more time talking about kobe and debating people like me. and you're way more worried about kobes legacy because you know deep down lebron and kobe is still the main conversation. thats why you have all those bookmarks for your kobe agenda.

i don't see you busting out year old quotes in MJ threads like you do with the kobe finals percentages lol

you're way more interested in trashing kobe because you know you still have a ways to go before even our fan base will give you your dues...

how about this. just win 5 and have the next one be without a collusion or a bubble or a shortened season or a do or die bail out or a suspension

can you win one. JUST ONE TIME without BS lol

[HunterSThompson]

its not even a debate anymore.

then why spend your days and nights debating it

[red1]

then why spend your days and nights debating it

I was referring to curry and lebron. that was a legit debate in 2015 and 2016 when curry was destroying the league.



like I said - it's not even a debate anymore.

[Axe]

The problem with this is that it wasn't just a matter of the Warriors having multiple all star players. They already had a built in system that KD just happened to join. That's one of the advantages of having a home grown team that played together for years and formed legitimate chemistry with each other. It's one of the reasons why LeBron's teams never sustained that same level of dominance. Obviously 2014 is an example of a clearly better team destroying a legitimately great Miami Heat team (despite Wade showing clear signs of decline and Bosh failing to live up to his usual standards in that series). But you can absolutely bet that Miami were going to be legitimate favorites again in 2015 and probably would have made it to the finals no problem if LeBron were still there, especially with the emergence of Hassan Whiteside as a legitimate inside presence on both ends of the floor (more so defense, although he still fouled A LOT and lacked basic decision making skills). Oddly enough, it's also one of the reasons why LeBron going to Miami in 2010 might have been pointless in the end. Boston was on a clear decline in 2010 and I'm not fully convinced that Bosh going to Miami would have been enough for the Heat to be legitimate title contenders since they only had one other player on the roster at that point (not to mention the only reason Bosh ever went to Miami in the first place is because they were pretty much convinced at that point that LeBron was going to go there too. I imagine that if LeBron made it clear his intentions were to stay in Cleveland no matter what, Bosh doesn't go to Miami, or hell, considers going to Cleveland instead). The Cavaliers won 60 games in two straight seasons. They were still clearly at the very least a legitimately good team that were more than capable of making another legitimate playoff run. I sometimes think that LeBron would have been better off staying in Cleveland, waiting for the Cavaliers to make a trade with the assets that they had, and contend with what he had. Bouncing around to Miami and then back to Cleveland had its obvious benefits but one of the consequences of doing so is losing the chemistry that made the Cavaliers a 60 win team in the first place. I sometimes go back and watch the 2015 Cavaliers and I can't help but notice how dysfunctional they are as a team even in the playoffs despite having a relatively stacked roster.



One of the reasons LeBron is hated so much is because MJ stans know that he is the only person in NBA history who has any legitimate claim at being a better player than him. I personally don't see the argument for LeBron being superior, but I can acknowledge that a lot of the hate LeBron receives is either laughable or has no real merit. No person I know thinks LeBron's four rings have an asterisk. That's a laughable narrative created by morons like yourself who don't have a clue as to how the sport world works.
Ah i do see your point. Honestly there's some truth to that, that he'd never win anything in cleveland if the FO didn't do any efforts in giving him the help they need to advance further in the playoffs. But since the goal was to garner rings, of course he needed to go elsewhere. With the heat triumvirate tho, what others hated about it is that he was given the help he needed to dominate and even with a former finals mvp by his side in d-wade, still came up short in their first season together. So admittedly, that sucks a lot. They say those superteams in the league were formed for the first time when kg and ray allen went to the celtics in 07 but during that time, the Cs were a lottery team but they won it all in their first season together despite making initial postseason struggles. Unlike the heat, which also made the postseason twice in a row when kong made his way there over a decade ago. Imho a dominant team is perennial or dynasty if they have near 60 or 60+ wins en route to the top seed of their conference or even better league. And then they make it to the finals, better if they can win it all and do the same process for more than twice. I think he could have been part of something like that if he made the most of it, especially during his tenure with the heat.

[HunterSThompson]

I was referring to curry and lebron. that was a legit debate in 2015 and 2016 when curry was destroying the league.



like I said - it's not even a debate anymore.

oh i see. so you think curry and lebron isn't worth debating but kobe and lebron is

what happened to MJ

how come you guys never go all out in MJ threads. why is it only jeff and steve with their all time playoff points shtick

[1987_Lakers]

---------------------



you're losing your mind again. this is like when you started bumping threads from 10 years ago replying to dead people. you just quoted a guy talking about mj stans picking on lebron and you use me as an example? i'm not an MJ stan. and the only MJ stan on ISH is 3ball because the rest are satisfied with MJ's gap between he and lebron. only 3ball still gives you people the time of day because hes insane. you lebron fans spend more time talking about kobe and debating people like me. and you're way more worried about kobes legacy because you know deep down lebron and kobe is still the main conversation. thats why you have all those bookmarks for your kobe agenda.

i don't see you busting out year old quotes in MJ threads like you do with the kobe finals percentages lol

you're way more interested in trashing kobe because you know you still have a ways to go before even our fan base will give you your dues...

how about this. just win 5 and have the next one be without a collusion or a bubble or a shortened season or a do or die bail out or a suspension

can you win one. JUST ONE TIME without BS lol

To be honest, no serious person has Kobe over LeBron on this site, only reason I like discussing it cause I like seeing you lose your shit, just look at you, posting essay after essay in this thread but at the end of the day Kobe is still ranked top 10-13 all time and below LeBron.

[red1]

oh i see. so you think curry and lebron isn't worth debating but kobe and lebron is

what happened to MJ

how come you guys never go all out in MJ threads. why is it only jeff and steve with their all time playoff points shtick

one post at a time my dude.


you were commenting to a post I made about those two players responding to warriorfan. two players meaning curry and lbj.


I troll 3ball the time about how his false jordan mythologizing only brings mj down in the rankings. mj is barely better than kobe.

[SaintzFury13]

https://i.ibb.co/ZJ5WFq7/Screen-Shot-2021-07-24-at-8-14-13-PM.png


who did lebron guard if he didn't guard these guys lol

Parker - 53% ( finals MVP )
Terry - 50%
Marion - 48%
Dirk - 42% ( finals MVP )
Durant - 55%
Kawhi - 51% 2013
Diaw - 50%
Kawhi - 61% 2014 ( finals MVP )
Manu - 50%
Iguodala - 52% ( finals MVP )
Green - 49% ( should be finals MVP. thanks silver ) 2016
Durant - 56% ( finals MVP ) 2017
Iguodala - 53%
Durant - 53% ( finals MVP ) 2018
Green - 52% 2018
Iguodala - 58% 2018
Butler - 55%

2007: LeBron mostly guarded Bowen and Ginobli. Eric Snow was the poor bastard who was stuck with the task of trying to guard Parker in that series. 2007 doesn't even matter because at that point LeBron was still a relatively mediocre defensive player. It wasn't until 2009 that he reached elite level status.

2011: It doesn't matter who you say. LeBron pretty much got lit up by everyone in this series. I'm surprised people don't talk about LeBron's defense in that series more because it was one of the worst displays I had ever seen by a first team all defense member, especially against Terry. This one I will absolutely give you.

2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRF_JaDGuCU

Going off of stats when you clearly didn't watch the finals doesn't help your argument. Kevin Durant shot well for the most part during that series. When guarded by James it was a much different story.

2013: It is absolutely hilarious that you would list Kawhi and Diaw, but don't bother listing Parker, who was in fact guarded by LeBron this time for most of the series after game 1, and had a very noticeable dip in production as a result. This series is often seen as an example of LeBron's prowess at the defensive end of the floor as well as his versatility. He was tasked with guarding the other teams point guard and locked him down. But since you don't want to list Parker because you know it hurts your narrative, I'll tell you what his stats were for you: 41% shooting and 15 PPG, compared to above 50% and 20 PPG going into that finals series against Miami.

2014: Again, no argument from me on this one. Even though San Antonio was clearly the superior team, this does not excuse LeBron's performance in this series. It should be noted for arguments sake that 2014 is the year LeBron's noticeable decline as a whole on defense begins, even though he still showed flashes of brilliance in the years to come.

2015: Buddy, Iggy was literally left wide open at the perimeter all the time by the Cavaliers. They practically begged him to shoot the ball from three because that was the only thing they could hope for. I think out of the entire finals series, I could count maybe three or four instances where LeBron guarded Iggy. LeBron spent most of that series guarding Draymond because they wanted to give him as much rest on defense as possible due to the insane load he was taking on the offensive end.

2016: Should be finals MVP for what? Stupidly getting himself suspended? Unlike the previous series (2015), this time LeBron actually spent most of the series guarding Barnes (who noticeably struggled throughout the finals, thanks once again for not bothering to mention that because you know it hurts your narrative) and Iggy whenever he was playing. Draymond was mostly guarded by Thompson.

2017: At this point LeBron and the Cavaliers as a whole either completely gave up on playing defense or had no idea what it was, sometimes both. Either way I'll give you this one.

2018: There is no guarding Kevin Durant at this point, it doesn't matter who you are.

2020: I actually don't even remember who LeBron's main defensive assignment was in this one, which is strange considering this is the most recent one that he was in. Could have been Butler for all we know, but considering how the Lakers usually had Green, Pope and Avery guarding the opposing teams best perimeter player, I doubt LeBron was the one tasked with guarding him.

And in case you're wondering how I know all of this apart from 2020 because I apparently didn't pay attention to that one, this comes down to a little something I like to call watching the game, paying attention to what's going on and having a clue as to what I'm talking about.

[HunterSThompson]

To be honest, no serious person has Kobe over LeBron on this site

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AltruisticJauntyHookersealion-size_restricted.gif


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?471798-Kobe-vs-Lebron-Who-is-considered-better

https://i.ibb.co/WPdd4FP/Screen-Shot-2021-07-24-at-8-38-52-PM.png



and this is with jeff/steve having 20 alts each

:roll::roll::roll:

[HunterSThompson]

2016: Should be finals MVP for what? Stupidly getting himself suspended?


if lebron sat on a guys head today he gets a taunting penalty technical foul

and the refs never gave draymond anything for telling lebron to get his balls*ck the f*ck off off his head

lebron called adam silver and begged him to suspend draymond

[1987_Lakers]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AltruisticJauntyHookersealion-size_restricted.gif


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?471798-Kobe-vs-Lebron-Who-is-considered-better

https://i.ibb.co/WPdd4FP/Screen-Shot-2021-07-24-at-8-38-52-PM.png



and this is with jeff/steve having 20 alts each

:roll::roll::roll:

Notice I said "serious" person. Just clicking at that thread in the first 2 pages and I see Duncan21forMVP, Stalker, tpols, bronjames23, TheMan, bullettooth, sportjames23. Pretty much all Jordan/kobe stans who hate LeBron with a passion.

[1987_Lakers]

2007: LeBron mostly guarded Bowen and Ginobli. Eric Snow was the poor bastard who was stuck with the task of trying to guard Parker in that series. 2007 doesn't even matter because at that point LeBron was still a relatively mediocre defensive player. It wasn't until 2009 that he reached elite level status.

2011: It doesn't matter who you say. LeBron pretty much got lit up by everyone in this series. I'm surprised people don't talk about LeBron's defense in that series more because it was one of the worst displays I had ever seen by a first team all defense member, especially against Terry. This one I will absolutely give you.

2012: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRF_JaDGuCU

Going off of stats when you clearly didn't watch the finals doesn't help your argument. Kevin Durant shot well for the most part during that series. When guarded by James it was a much different story.

2013: It is absolutely hilarious that you would list Kawhi and Diaw, but don't bother listing Parker, who was in fact guarded by LeBron this time for most of the series after game 1, and had a very noticeable dip in production as a result. This series is often seen as an example of LeBron's prowess at the defensive end of the floor as well as his versatility. He was tasked with guarding the other teams point guard and locked him down. But since you don't want to list Parker because you know it hurts your narrative, I'll tell you what his stats were for you: 41% shooting and 15 PPG, compared to above 50% and 20 PPG going into that finals series against Miami.

2014: Again, no argument from me on this one. Even though San Antonio was clearly the superior team, this does not excuse LeBron's performance in this series. It should be noted for arguments sake that 2014 is the year LeBron's noticeable decline as a whole on defense begins, even though he still showed flashes of brilliance in the years to come.

2015: Buddy, Iggy was literally left wide open at the perimeter all the time by the Cavaliers. They practically begged him to shoot the ball from three because that was the only thing they could hope for. I think out of the entire finals series, I could count maybe three or four instances where LeBron guarded Iggy. LeBron spent most of that series guarding Draymond because they wanted to give him as much rest on defense as possible due to the insane load he was taking on the offensive end.

2016: Should be finals MVP for what? Stupidly getting himself suspended? Unlike the previous series (2015), this time LeBron actually spent most of the series guarding Barnes (who noticeably struggled throughout the finals, thanks once again for not bothering to mention that because you know it hurts your narrative) and Iggy whenever he was playing. Draymond was mostly guarded by Thompson.

2017: At this point LeBron and the Cavaliers as a whole either completely gave up on playing defense or had no idea what it was, sometimes both. Either way I'll give you this one.

2018: There is no guarding Kevin Durant at this point, it doesn't matter who you are.

2020: I actually don't even remember who LeBron's main defensive assignment was in this one, which is strange considering this is the most recent one that he was in. Could have been Butler for all we know, but considering how the Lakers usually had Green, Pope and Avery guarding the opposing teams best perimeter player, I doubt LeBron was the one tasked with guarding him.

And in case you're wondering how I know all of this apart from 2020 because I apparently didn't pay attention to that one, this comes down to a little something I like to call watching the game, paying attention to what's going on and having a clue as to what I'm talking about.

:applause:

[SaintzFury13]

can you win one. JUST ONE TIME without BS lol

You're saying this like Kobe did. The only reason he won in 2009 is because Orlando matched up insanely well against Cleveland who were clearly the best team in the East and were easy pickings for the Lakers since they had the bigs to deal with Dwight while the Cavaliers didn't. And the only reason the Lakers won in 2010 is because Artest and Pau bailed Kobe out after a terrible game 7 showing against a Boston Celtics team who were without their starting center and still almost managed to lose the game on their own home court.

You want to continue to sit here and claim there was some kind of bs involved with LeBron's title wins, that collusion is what got them those titles in the first place. Buddy, even with LeBron teaming up with Wade and Bosh, they still had to actually WIN those championships. They still had to earn them. And LeBron absolutely earned them. Even though LeBron was able to get Irving and Love in Cleveland, they still had to go through one of the greatest teams of all time who had a 3-1 series lead on them just to get it. And in the fourth championship LeBron got, he had to go through a very unique playoff experience where there were no home court advantages and it came down to the legitimately best team winning it all. And this time, by the way, there was no collusion, there was no teaming up with his best friends. Anthony Davis was traded to LA, just like Pau Gasol was traded to LA when Kobe was there. It is all fair game at that point going by your own logic.

You act like each of LeBron's title wins were cake walks, that the teams he was on and the teammates he had somehow negates that. Newsflash, two of those teams that LeBron went up against are easily superior to any team Jordan or Kobe ever faced in an NBA finals series (apart from the 2008 Celtics, who you can argue are on their level, and guess what? They manhandled the Lakers in six, what a surprise).

Just stop with the asterisk nonsense. You have no argument here. None.

[red1]

I think kenny is a loyal guy, with a strong sense of loyalty to HIS guy aka kobe



it blinds him from seeing that lebron is by far the GOAT of this era.





I mean its not even close.



which is fine. to each his own.

[SaintzFury13]

if lebron sat on a guys head today he gets a taunting penalty technical foul

and the refs never gave draymond anything for telling lebron to get his balls*ck the f*ck off off his head

Because Draymond was dumb enough to strike LeBron in the groin in retaliation. That's his own fault for being an idiot.


lebron called adam silver and begged him to suspend draymond

Again, why should I take anything you say seriously when you spout stupid shit like this?

[1987_Lakers]

You're saying this like Kobe did. The only reason he won in 2009 is because Orlando matched up insanely well against Cleveland who were clearly the best team in the East and were easy pickings for the Lakers since they had the bigs to deal with Dwight while the Cavaliers didn't. And the only reason the Lakers won in 2010 is because Artest and Pau bailed Kobe out after a terrible game 7 showing against a Boston Celtics team who were without their starting center and still almost managed to lose the game on their own home court.

You want to continue to sit here and claim there was some kind of bs involved with LeBron's title wins, that collusion is what got them those titles in the first place. Buddy, even with LeBron teaming up with Wade and Bosh, they still had to actually WIN those championships. They still had to earn them. And LeBron absolutely earned them. Even though LeBron was able to get Irving and Love in Cleveland, they still had to go through one of the greatest teams of all time who had a 3-1 series lead on them just to get it. And in the fourth championship LeBron got, he had to go through a very unique playoff experience where there were no home court advantages and it came down to the legitimately best team winning it all. And this time, by the way, there was no collusion, there was no teaming up with his best friends. Anthony Davis was traded to LA, just like Pau Gasol was traded to LA when Kobe was there. It is all fair game at that point going by your own logic.

You act like each of LeBron's title wins were cake walks, that the teams he was on and the teammates he had somehow negates that. Newsflash, two of those teams that LeBron went up against are easily superior to any team Jordan or Kobe ever faced in an NBA finals series (apart from the 2008 Celtics, who you can argue are on their level, and guess what? They manhandled the Lakers in six, what a surprise).

Just stop with the asterisk nonsense. You have no argument here. None.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AcclaimedGroundedAmericancrocodile-size_restricted.gif

[HunterSThompson]

Notice I said "serious" person. Just clicking at that thread in the first 2 pages and I see Duncan21forMVP, Stalker, tpols, bronjames23, TheMan, bullettooth, sportjames23. Pretty much all Jordan/kobe stans who hate LeBron with a passion.

you're a supposed life long laker fan thats been worshipping lebron since 15 years ago and you think you're any better than those people?

you literally rooted against your own team and followed a guy from cleveland and miami you f*cking oblivious retard lmao

[HunterSThompson]

Because Draymond was dumb enough to strike LeBron in the groin in retaliation. That's his own fault for being an idiot.



Again, why should I take anything you say seriously when you spout stupid shit like this?

why is a jewish lawyer making basketball decisions instead of the actual officials. and he made a gesture like "get the f*ck off me" and lebron didn't even feel it. he didn't even know it took place till after the game when brian windhorst showed him the clip on his phone and lebron thought "omg this is great. i can call adam silver and rig game 5"

[Axe]

you're a supposed life long laker fan thats been worshipping lebron since 15 years ago and you think you're any better than those people?

you literally rooted against your own team and followed a guy from cleveland and miami you f*cking oblivious retard lmao
The deflection here is way too apparent now

[1987_Lakers]

you're a supposed life long laker fan thats been worshipping lebron since 15 years ago and you think you're any better than those people?

you literally rooted against your own team and followed a guy from cleveland and miami you f*cking oblivious retard lmao

No, I'm just not a biased idiot who clings to one player over another even though the evidence says he isn't better.

[HunterSThompson]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AcclaimedGroundedAmericancrocodile-size_restricted.gif

i dunno why you're dancing. i don't even need to read whatever that guy said to know kobe didn't

1. ring chase
2. collude
3. play in a lockout shortened season
4. play in a bubble with no fans or travel
5. have a do or die bail out shot by a teammate
6. call adam silver to get the other teams finals mvp candidate suspended


at best you can say "oh well 2009 he umm... didn't face lebron cause he choked with homecourt advantage to dwight howard"


other than that kobes 2009 title was perfection

[1987_Lakers]

i dunno why you're dancing. i don't even need to read whatever that guy said to know kobe didn't

1. ring chase
2. collude
3. play in a lockout shortened season
4. play in a bubble with no fans or travel
5. have a do or die bail out shot by a teammate
6. call adam silver to get the other teams finals mvp candidate suspended


at best you can say "oh well 2009 he umm... didn't face lebron cause he choked with homecourt advantage to dwight howard"


other than that kobes 2009 title was perfection

Meltdown

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AcclaimedGroundedAmericancrocodile-size_restricted.gif

[Axe]

i dunno why you're dancing. i don't even need to read whatever that guy said to know kobe didn't

1. ring chase
2. collude
3. play in a lockout shortened season
4. play in a bubble with no fans or travel
5. have a do or die bail out shot by a teammate
6. call adam silver to get the other teams finals mvp candidate suspended


at best you can say "oh well 2009 he umm... didn't face lebron cause he choked with homecourt advantage to dwight howard"


other than that kobes 2009 title was perfection
And in 2009, he needed pau gasol to garner his first finals mvp too.

[HunterSThompson]

No, I'm just not a biased idiot who clings to one player over another even though the evidence says he isn't better.

man. wake up bro. you're one of us. you spend every day repeating the same thing over and over and over for 15 years now. you're crazy. you're just as 1 sided and unable to give an inch

if anything you're crazier than me. i take year to 2 year breaks all the time. you've been here nonstop doing this weird shit

[HunterSThompson]

And in 2009, he needed pau gasol to garner his first finals mvp too.

he did you're right. that aint a collusion though or a 1B superstar like wade/kyrie/davis

[1987_Lakers]

man. wake up bro. you're one of us. you spend every day repeating the same thing over and over and over for 15 years now. you're crazy. you're just as 1 sided and unable to give an inch

if anything you're crazier than me. i take year to 2 year breaks all the time. you've been here nonstop doing this weird shit

I will never be apart of the Kobrick fam.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AcclaimedGroundedAmericancrocodile-size_restricted.gif

[Axe]

he did you're right. but that aint a collusion though or a 1B superstar like wade/kyrie/davis
Yet he needed more than five finals runs just to get his first too.

[Hey Yo]

Love stats Pre-LeBron - 26/13/2/59% TS

Bosh stats Pre-LeBron - 24/11/2/59% TS

Pau stats Pre-Kobe - 19/8/3/59% TS

It's safe to say that Kevin Love and Chris Bosh were better than Pau Gasol before they joined with their new teams

LeBron needed Bosh and Love as third options when he won

Kobe had Paul Gasol as a second option when he won



So you expected Bosh and Love to put up similar numbers in Cleveland and Miami..... as 3rd options??? If so... that pretty dumb.

[red1]

Meltdown

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[red1]

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[red1]

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[red1]

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[HunterSThompson]

I will never be apart of the Kobrick fam.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AcclaimedGroundedAmericancrocodile-size_restricted.gif

i didn't say that. i said you're actually more crazy than me or stalker... we actually have offspring. we actually did something outside of ISH. we both take long breaks from here. you're still on here every single day since 2007 copying and pasting the same shit day in day out acting like you're some sort of impartial casual. no man. you're psychotic


so am i. but not as much. you're still on your original account. i've literally tried getting every single one of my names banned on purpose just so i have an excuse to leave for a while. and when this one eventually gets banned i'm out for another year or so to take care of my daughter and make up for lost time. i'm getting a dna test this month.

so whenever you have that thought in the back of your racoon head that you might actually be above all of this.. just remember this conversation we're having right now when i come back 10-15 years from now ( if this place is still around ) with pictures of me and my kid and me at her wedding maybe... and all you'l have to show me is this



2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg%
2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%
2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS%
2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%
2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%
2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%
2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%

[Axe]

Come on, do you really have to spam gifs of kong in threads from time to time just to brag about your stockholm syndrome? :oldlol:

[Axe]

i didn't say that. i said you're actually more crazy than me or stalker... we actually have offspring. we actually did something outside of ISH. we both take long breaks from here. you're still on here every single day since 2007 copying and pasting the same shit day in day out acting like you're some sort of impartial casual. no man. you're psychotic


so am i. but not as much. you're still on your original account. i've literally tried getting every single one of my names banned on purpose just so i have an excuse to leave for a while. and when this one eventually gets banned i'm out for another year or so to take care of my daughter and make up for lost time. i'm getting a dna test this month.

so whenever you have that thought in the back of your racoon head that you might actually be above all of this.. just remember this conversation we're having right now when i come back 10-15 years from now ( if this place is still around ) with pictures of me and my kid and me at her wedding maybe... and all you'l have to show me is this
Yet you're here whining about his 'asterisked' titles.

[1987_Lakers]

i didn't say that. i said you're actually more crazy than me or stalker... we actually have offspring. we actually did something outside of ISH. we both take long breaks from here. you're still on here every single day since 2007 copying and pasting the same shit day in day out acting like you're some sort of impartial casual. no man. you're psychotic


so am i. but not as much. you're still on your original account. i've literally tried getting every single one of my names banned on purpose just so i have an excuse to leave for a while. and when this one eventually gets banned i'm out for another year or so to take care of my daughter and make up for lost time. i'm getting a dna test this month.

so whenever you have that thought in the back of your racoon head that you might actually be above all of this.. just remember this conversation we're having right now when i come back 10-15 years from now ( if this place is still around ) with pictures of me and my kid and me at her wedding maybe... and all you'l have to show me is this

:oldlol:

[SaintzFury13]

why is a jewish lawyer making basketball decisions instead of the actual officials. and he made a gesture like "get the f*ck off me" and lebron didn't even feel it. he didn't even know it took place till after the game when brian windhorst showed him the clip on his phone and lebron thought "omg this is great. i can call adam silver and rig game 5"

Again, why should I take you seriously at this point? You're making up a scenario that never happened in the first place. LeBron called Silver and had Draymond suspended...seriously, just stop already.


i dunno why you're dancing. i don't even need to read whatever that guy said to know kobe didn't

1. ring chase

Apparently you don't know what ring chasing is.


2. collude

He literally demanded a trade which forced the Lakers hand and got them Pau Gasol as a result. Cut the bullshit.


3. play in a lockout shortened season

At this point I don't even know what to say. Kobe played in the 1999 and 2011 seasons, both of which were lockout shortened seasons. Are all of the LeBron haters on this site this stupid?


4. play in a bubble with no fans or travel

How is that a knock on LeBron? That meant he had no homecourt advantages, it was all fair game from that point on. That just means the truly best team won the finals that year, which were the Lakers. If anything that points more so in LeBron's favor.


5. have a do or die bail out shot by a teammate

This literally happened one time. One. And it was where LeBron got his team back into the game by scoring 16 points in the fourth quarter of said game. Without him, Ray Allen's shot never happens in the first place. LeBron put his team in that situation in the first place.

But since we're going by that logic, LeBron never had not one, but two teammates bail him out of a terrible game 7 performance in an NBA finals like Kobe did. If you're telling me the former is worse than this, then you're an idiot.


6. call adam silver to get the other teams finals mvp candidate suspended

First off, this never happened. You need to stop saying obvious bullshit. Second, Draymond was in no way shape or form a finals MVP candidate at that point. His only legitimately great game in that series was in game 7, which didn't even happen yet.



at best you can say "oh well 2009 he umm... didn't face lebron cause he choked with homecourt advantage to dwight howard"

LeBron James choked in a series where he averaged 35 PPG on above 50% shooting. At this point I don't even know why I'm continuing to bother with you. The amount of idiotic shit you continue to say is truly mind boggling.



other than that kobes 2009 title was perfection

Literally all of LeBron's title wins were more impressive than Kobe's 2009 title win.

[Hey Yo]

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Eye level with the rim

[HunterSThompson]

Yet he needed more than five finals runs just to get his first too.

shaq was gonna win fmvp every year regardless of how great kobe was since "if you don't feed the dog the dog dont guard the house"

see 2001 when kobe was clear cut best player on LA that playoffs

and when kobe started shooting more in the 2004 finals shaq would go on the weak side and wouldn't even try getting position or a rebound when they called a play for kobe. he let wallace abuse him physically a lot of that series onpurpose

so kobes only shot at finals mvp was after they split up. meaning kobe got his in his 2nd try

[HunterSThompson]

Eye level with the rim

steroids are a hell of a drug

[HunterSThompson]

Again, why should I take you seriously at this point? You're making up a scenario that never happened in the first place. LeBron called Silver and had Draymond suspended...seriously, just stop already.



Apparently you don't know what ring chasing is.



He literally demanded a trade which forced the Lakers hand and got them Pau Gasol as a result. Cut the bullshit.



At this point I don't even know what to say. Kobe played in the 1999 and 2011 seasons, both of which were lockout shortened seasons. Are all of the LeBron haters on this site this stupid?



How is that a knock on LeBron? That meant he had no homecourt advantages, it was all fair game from that point on. That just means the truly best team won the finals that year, which were the Lakers. If anything that points more so in LeBron's favor.



This literally happened one time. One. And it was where LeBron got his team back into the game by scoring 16 points in the fourth quarter of said game. Without him, Ray Allen's shot never happens in the first place. LeBron put his team in that situation in the first place.

But since we're going by that logic, LeBron never had not one, but two teammates bail him out of a terrible game 7 performance in an NBA finals like Kobe did. If you're telling me the former is worse than this, then you're an idiot.



First off, this never happened. You need to stop saying obvious bullshit. Second, Draymond was in no way shape or form a finals MVP candidate at that point. His only legitimately great game in that series was in game 7, which didn't even happen yet.




LeBron James choked in a series where he averaged 35 PPG on above 50% shooting. At this point I don't even know why I'm continuing to bother with you. The amount of idiotic shit you continue to say is truly mind boggling.




Literally all of LeBron's title wins were more impressive than Kobe's 2009 title win.

thats a ton of work for someone trying to deny lebron ring chased, colluded, got bailed out multiple times, had another teams player suspended and played in BS lockout shortened seasons and disney bubbles


sorry man but this is like sorta the consensus. watch any debate show with a guy that doesn't obsesses over lebron and they bring up all this stuff. so its obviously real

[Axe]

shaq was gonna win fmvp every year regardless of how great kobe was since "if you don't feed the dog the dog dont guard the house"

see 2001 when kobe was clear cut best player on LA that playoffs

and when kobe started shooting more in the 2004 finals shaq would go on the weak side and wouldn't even try getting position or a rebound when they called a play for kobe. he let wallace abuse him physically a lot of that series onpurpose

so kobes only shot at finals mvp was after they split up. meaning kobe got his in his 2nd try
Lol that time when kobe was still a hard headed spoiled brat? That's why even the zen master was irritated by his such immature behavior.

[red1]

Eye level with the rim

cant call yourself the king without proving it


being the GOAT game-7 performer in NBA history is sufficient proof


https://sneakerbardetroit.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/LeBron-James-Nike-Throne-Ad.jpg

[Axe]

he was irritated by how a black man raped a white girl like how one raped phils daughter and phils been racist ever since ( scottie wasnt kidding )
Deflection once more as usual. Kobe was close to uncoachable back then.

[RRR3]

LeGod is literally twice the player Kobe was. Kenny seething.

[Gohan]

LeGod is literally twice the player Kobe was. Kenny seething.

No hes not, and stop playing with god like that. Lebron isnt 1 millionth of what god is

[And1AllDay]

i didn't say that. i said you're actually more crazy than me or stalker... we actually have offspring. we actually did something outside of ISH. we both take long breaks from here. you're still on here every single day since 2007 copying and pasting the same shit day in day out acting like you're some sort of impartial casual. no man. you're psychotic


so am i. but not as much. you're still on your original account. i've literally tried getting every single one of my names banned on purpose just so i have an excuse to leave for a while. and when this one eventually gets banned i'm out for another year or so to take care of my daughter and make up for lost time. i'm getting a dna test this month.

so whenever you have that thought in the back of your racoon head that you might actually be above all of this.. just remember this conversation we're having right now when i come back 10-15 years from now ( if this place is still around ) with pictures of me and my kid and me at her wedding maybe... and all you'l have to show me is this

https://i.postimg.cc/L5Zvtk5Z/kenenth_griffin.png

[SaintzFury13]

thats a ton of work for someone trying to deny lebron ring chased, colluded, got bailed out multiple times, had another teams player suspended and played in BS lockout shortened seasons and disney bubbles


sorry man but this is like sorta the consensus. watch any debate show with a guy that doesn't obsesses over lebron and they bring up all this stuff. so its obviously real

You mean the debate shows filled with morons like Skip Bayless and Nick Wright? Nah, I'm good. But that does explain your extremely severe lack of basketball knowledge.

[SaintzFury13]

No hes not, and stop playing with god like that. Lebron isnt 1 millionth of what god is

Are you going to tell him to kill himself if he disagrees with you?

[MadDog]

LeGod is literally twice the player Kobe was. Kenny seething.

You literally don't know what literally means lol