How Manufactured are today's stars

[Angel Face]

We see these guys who has no business dropping 30ish ppg, but because of the soft rules they can.

Olympics exposing these people. International rules are tougher than what is supposed to be the highest end and most prestigious basketball tournament.

[Spurs m8]

Look how manufactured and fake the so called face of the league has been for the last 15+ years

LeBronze and the current USA squad says it all

Weak and manufactured in the NBA bubble

[Axe]

Look how manufactured and fake the so called face of the league has been for the last 15+ years

LeBronze and the current USA squad says it all

Weak and manufactured in the NBA bubble
The fact that you have to mention kong is absolutely astounding.

[Spain_]

Referee bailouts for stars are a huge factor, so yes the league definitely chooses the players that get to play with cheat codes.

[coastalmarker99]

The NBA has completely nerfed the big man. More recently I think they’ve done it because smaller, faster, more athletic players are more entertaining. However, they also did it in the past. They did this when Wilt took over so it is not a new trend.

Wilt Chamberlain and Michael Jordan met each other at the 1997 All-Star break. The NBA celebrated their 50th anniversary by selecting the 50 greatest players of all time. If you’re unaware, this is how it went (as narrated by Bill Walton):

Over in the corner is Wilt and Michael Jordan and they’re sitting at a table arguing vociferously as to who the greatest player was. They’re going back and forth as intense as can be. Soon Commissioner David Stern tried to intervene, reminding them they were set to leave 15 minutes earlier.


Still jabbering, the pair got up from the table to join everyone else in line. Just before they were about to leave, Chamberlain spoke up. The room grew silent in anticipation of Wilt’s words, “Just remember Michael, when I played they changed the rules to make the game harder for me and when you played they changed the rules to make the game easier for you.”

Basketball, having a 10-foot goal, automatically gives an advantage to taller players, anyone who has played the game knows this.
If you’re playing against someone who’s equal to you in every way, but they’re an inch taller or have a longer wingspan, they’re the better player. They’ll block more shots, they’ll get more steals, they’ll get more rebounds, and they’ll have an easier time finishing against defenders. That’s just the way it goes.

I’ve gotten into arguments in the past about NBA rules that just don’t exist in real basketball - mostly travelling, but there are plenty of others.

The NBA is an entertainment industry. They want to make the game faster, higher-scoring so that it’s more exciting. But that’s not basketball.

International (Olympic) basketball is closer to what I’m calling real basketball. Taller players have the advantage because that’s the nature of the game.

It’s also important to note that basketball is a contract sport

Setting good screens, hand-checking, and boxing-out involves a lot of violent physical contact, but much of that is nerfed in the NBA. Physical play is especially penalized on the defensive end. Wilt even complained about how Shaq got away with too much offensive contact (because in Wilt’s time the refereeing often advantaged the defense and similar plays were called offensive fouls).

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I don't see it as much different then any other era. There's just a lot of talent today and also teams avoid the inefficient offenses of running through a big man doing low post ups.

Mitchell - Adrian Dantley

Tatum - Alex English

Or the 1970's - 1980s when guys like Dan Issel were averaging 28 or 27PPG


Upon Issel's retirement from the NBA in 1985, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Julius Erving were the only professional basketball players to have scored more career points

if car salesmen issell who was a Round: 8 / Pick: 122nd draft pick can do it, i don't get why the stars today wouldn't dominate that era as well.

[Phoenix]

I don't see it as much different then any other era. There's just a lot of talent today and also teams avoid the inefficient offenses of running through a big man doing low post ups.

Mitchell - Adrian Dantley

Tatum - Alex English

Or the 1970's - 1980s when guys like Dan Issel were averaging 28 or 27PPG



if car salesmen issell who was a Round: 8 / Pick: 122nd draft pick can do it, i don't get why the stars today wouldn't dominate that era as well.

Congrats on your first ISH post to not mention Kawhit.

[nayte]

Congrats on your first ISH post to not mention Kawhit.

Cmon that whole post was meant to prop up kwahi. He was trying to be subtle about it. Lol

[8Ball]

I don't see it as much different then any other era. There's just a lot of talent today and also teams avoid the inefficient offenses of running through a big man doing low post ups.

Mitchell - Adrian Dantley

Tatum - Alex English

Or the 1970's - 1980s when guys like Dan Issel were averaging 28 or 27PPG



if car salesmen issell who was a Round: 8 / Pick: 122nd draft pick can do it, i don't get why the stars today wouldn't dominate that era as well.

This is correct. I agree.

More talent today than ever before.

[HoopsNY]

The NBA has completely nerfed the big man. More recently I think they’ve done it because smaller, faster, more athletic players are more entertaining. However, they also did it in the past. They did this when Wilt took over so it is not a new trend.

Wilt Chamberlain and Michael Jordan met each other at the 1997 All-Star break. The NBA celebrated their 50th anniversary by selecting the 50 greatest players of all time. If you’re unaware, this is how it went (as narrated by Bill Walton):

Over in the corner is Wilt and Michael Jordan and they’re sitting at a table arguing vociferously as to who the greatest player was. They’re going back and forth as intense as can be. Soon Commissioner David Stern tried to intervene, reminding them they were set to leave 15 minutes earlier.


Still jabbering, the pair got up from the table to join everyone else in line. Just before they were about to leave, Chamberlain spoke up. The room grew silent in anticipation of Wilt’s words, “Just remember Michael, when I played they changed the rules to make the game harder for me and when you played they changed the rules to make the game easier for you.”

Basketball, having a 10-foot goal, automatically gives an advantage to taller players, anyone who has played the game knows this.
If you’re playing against someone who’s equal to you in every way, but they’re an inch taller or have a longer wingspan, they’re the better player. They’ll block more shots, they’ll get more steals, they’ll get more rebounds, and they’ll have an easier time finishing against defenders. That’s just the way it goes.

I’ve gotten into arguments in the past about NBA rules that just don’t exist in real basketball - mostly travelling, but there are plenty of others.

The NBA is an entertainment industry. They want to make the game faster, higher-scoring so that it’s more exciting. But that’s not basketball.

International (Olympic) basketball is closer to what I’m calling real basketball. Taller players have the advantage because that’s the nature of the game.

It’s also important to note that basketball is a contract sport

Setting good screens, hand-checking, and boxing-out involves a lot of violent physical contact, but much of that is nerfed in the NBA. Physical play is especially penalized on the defensive end. Wilt even complained about how Shaq got away with too much offensive contact (because in Wilt’s time the refereeing often advantaged the defense and similar plays were called offensive fouls).

Yea this is spot on. I remember that AS game you're referring to. I remember Glen Rice setting a record for AS game points in a half and Wilt being salty about it while everyone cheered, lol.

But Wilt was like that, so it doesn't surprise me that he would get into it with MJ. Though I would argue the triangle and the evolution of Pippen/Grant/Armstrong had more to do with Chicago's success than the league clamping down on flagrant fouls and aggressive behavior, which many - if not most fans - would say was detrimental to the league.

[Shogon]

Look how manufactured and fake the so called face of the league has been for the last 15+ years

LeBronze and the current USA squad says it all

Weak and manufactured in the NBA bubble

LeBron James is the best basketball player you personally have ever watched live on TV or the internet by a comfortable margin. I know that's painful to accept but it's true.

I mean it's not even close how much better he is than any other player you have ever watched, actually, lol.

Curry would be the respectable but still distant 2nd.

You aren't a plethora of NBA knowledge, experience or wisdom. Stop posting.

[FireDavidKahn]

Agreed.

None of today's stars could have cut it during peak lebron's era. Reason why he went to so many finals

[Bronbron23]

We see these guys who has no business dropping 30ish ppg, but because of the soft rules they can.

Olympics exposing these people. International rules are tougher than what is supposed to be the highest end and most prestigious basketball tournament.

I've made similar threads. I actually don't think the players are manufactured i just think the stats and scores are somewhat manufactured. Most great players of today would still be great in previous generations they would just have Slightly less stats due to tougher rules and other factors like shooting less shots and threes.

[Bronbron23]

LeBron James is the best basketball player you personally have ever watched live on TV or the internet by a comfortable margin. I know that's painful to accept but it's true.

I mean it's not even close how much better he is than any other player you have ever watched, actually, lol.

Curry would be the respectable but still distant 2nd.

You aren't a plethora of NBA knowledge, experience or wisdom. Stop posting.

A disagree with bron being the best but he's up there and has a case so it's not a crazy statement. Curry being second is just crazy talk and unfortunately makes u lose credibility which ends up hurting your bron argument also.

[FKAri]

LeBron James is the best basketball player you personally have ever watched live on TV or the internet by a comfortable margin. I know that's painful to accept but it's true.

I mean it's not even close how much better he is than any other player you have ever watched, actually, lol.

Curry would be the respectable but still distant 2nd.

You aren't a plethora of NBA knowledge, experience or wisdom. Stop posting.

Did you just say Curry > Kobe, Shaq, Duncan? And if he's over 30 he's probably seen MJ live too.

[Shogon]

Did you just say Curry > Kobe, Shaq, Duncan? And if he's over 30 he's probably seen MJ live too.

That guy isn't over 30. His account was registered in 2014. Could be, I suppose, but I doubt it.

That guy didn't watch Shaq Kobe or Duncan at their peaks.

My post was commentary on his age, for those of you that didn't pick up on that. This kid has probably been watching the NBA since 2010 at the absolute earliest, which would line up with what I said as being true.

Even if he's 25, this kid didn't see peak Shaq or Duncan or Garnett or Kobe in any meaningful way that his brain could comprehend.

LeBron & Steph & Durant are the three best players he's ever seen.

Hell even if he's 30 he didn't see those guys in any meaningful way.

I maintain that those are the three best he's seen and "understood."



"Oh but I perfectly understood what I was watching when I was 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 years old..." Give me a ****ing break, will you?

[Stephonit]

Did you just say Curry > Kobe, Shaq, Duncan? And if he's over 30 he's probably seen MJ live too.

You know what Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan had in common? They played and probably reached their peak during the 2000s. Do you know what basketball in the 2000s were known for? Being boring to watch.

[Bronbron23]

You know what Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan had in common? They played and probably reached their peak during the 2000s. Do you know what basketball in the 2000s were known for? Being boring to watch.

It's also known for allowing defenders to play actual defense. Throw curry in 2000's and he's worse for 2 reasons. One is it was way more physical and we know how steph has a harder time with physical play. He's still great obviously but his offense does suffer a bit. The other reason is they shot less threes. Idiots on here actually think steph would still shoot 10 threes a game in the 2000's he wouldn't he'd shoot about half that.

[DoctorP]

The nba caters to superstar players for entertainment. The stats are embellished now more than ever and fouls are political.

This is the way $$$

It's become more like WWE than ever.

[Stephonit]

It's also known for allowing defenders to play actual defense. Throw curry in 2000's and he's worse for 2 reasons. One is it was way more physical and we know how steph has a harder time with physical play. He's still great obviously but his offense does suffer a bit. The other reason is they shot less threes. Idiots on here actually think steph would still shoot 10 threes a game in the 2000's he wouldn't he'd shoot about half that.

Curry's offense would be even more effective because they didn't protect the perimeter as well. Curry would bring spacing to a game that didn't recognize its benefits as much. Don't you remember all the times teams traded possessions clanking and clanking missed shots? If he ends up shooting threes or not will depend on if the coach can appreciate his gifts or not. But the potential will still be there.

[hold this L]

It's also known for allowing defenders to play actual defense. Throw curry in 2000's and he's worse for 2 reasons. One is it was way more physical and we know how steph has a harder time with physical play. He's still great obviously but his offense does suffer a bit. The other reason is they shot less threes. Idiots on here actually think steph would still shoot 10 threes a game in the 2000's he wouldn't he'd shoot about half that.
Steph has a better shooting % than Lebron, MJ, Kobe, Duncan etc. in the playoffs.

[HoopsNY]

Steph has a better shooting % than Lebron, MJ, Kobe, Duncan etc. in the playoffs.

Steph is a career 45% shooter in the postseason.

[hold this L]

That guy isn't over 30. His account was registered in 2014. Could be, I suppose, but I doubt it.

That guy didn't watch Shaq Kobe or Duncan at their peaks.

My post was commentary on his age, for those of you that didn't pick up on that. This kid has probably been watching the NBA since 2010 at the absolute earliest, which would line up with what I said as being true.

Even if he's 25, this kid didn't see peak Shaq or Duncan or Garnett or Kobe in any meaningful way that his brain could comprehend.

LeBron & Steph & Durant are the three best players he's ever seen.

Hell even if he's 30 he didn't see those guys in any meaningful way.

I maintain that those are the three best he's seen and "understood."



"Oh but I perfectly understood what I was watching when I was 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 years old..." Give me a ****ing break, will you?

Yeah, Chef may one day reach them or pass if he keeps his form and actually dominates, but no way in hell is he above or same as either of those 3. Garnett though, stop it.

[hold this L]

Steph is a career 45% shooter in the postseason.

60% TS which is above all that I mentioned. This is the problem when people listen to NBA media who make up narratives and literally stick with them until something crazy happens. Steph was definitely hampered until the 2016 PS, but he's bulked every season since. He's probably one of the stronger starting PGs, he's even scoring that shove-off 3 that Harden made popular last season over and over again.

[Stephonit]

Steph is a career 45% shooter in the postseason. You're using basic FG% really? Look at true shooting %.

[Shogon]

Yeah, Chef may one day reach them or pass if he keeps his form and actually dominates, but no way in hell is he above or same as either of those 3. Garnett though, stop it.

Dude shut up. I never said those guys were better. I was just talking about this kid's viewing history.

The point is that poster is young, and so are you are probably. WTF.

I can't do this shit anymore, lol.

For the record... at their peaks?

2000 until now?

Shaq -> LeBron -> Steph -> Duncan -> some combination of Garnett / Kobe / Durant

Career?

LeBron -> Duncan -> Shaq -> Kobe -> Steph -> Durant -> Garnett

I only put Garnett's name in because he was one of the most dominant of that era.

[hold this L]

Dude shut up. I never said those guys were better. I was just talking about this kid's viewing history.

The point is that poster is young, and so are you are probably. WTF.

I can't do this shit anymore, lol.

For the record... at their peaks?

2000 until now?

Shaq -> LeBron -> Steph -> Duncan -> some combination of Garnett / Kobe / Durant

Career?

LeBron -> Duncan -> Shaq -> Kobe -> Steph -> Durant -> Garnett

I only put Garnett's name in because he was one of the most dominant of that era.

You take peak KG over peak Kobe?


peak Shaq is the best player of all time.

[HoopsNY]

60% TS which is above all that I mentioned. This is the problem when people listen to NBA media who make up narratives and literally stick with them until something crazy happens. Steph was definitely hampered until the 2016 PS, but he's bulked every season since. He's probably one of the stronger starting PGs, he's even scoring that shove-off 3 that Harden made popular last season over and over again.


You're using basic FG% really? Look at true shooting %.

Would you two calm down. He said he had a better shooting %. I assumed he was referring to FG%. He didn't specify TS%.

[Stephonit]

Curry's basketball skill is more obvious to any casual watcher than that of the others.

[Shogon]

You take peak KG over peak Kobe?


peak Shaq is the best player of all time.

I might even take peak KG over peak Duncan, but no higher.

The man could defend most everyone 1 through 5 and he was an absolute nightmare matchup for everyone on both sides of the ball because of his midrange game and speed for his size. I never once saw anyone guard peak McGrady better(2001 through 2004). Nobody.

[ImKobe]

You take peak KG over peak Kobe?


peak Shaq is the best player of all time.

Stat nerds might but KG was unwilling to carry the scoring load to be in the conversation of Kobe/Shaq/Duncan. Peak Shaq was amazing stats-wise but had too many flaws. He wasn't the best defensive player, obviously was inconsistent at FTs which is why he needed another ATG to close big Playoff games for him. Peak MJ is still easily the best all-time as he had the least amount of flaws, was better than most big men on the defensive end and was as clutch as any player in league history.

[FKAri]

You know what Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan had in common? They played and probably reached their peak during the 2000s. Do you know what basketball in the 2000s were known for? Being boring to watch.
Why does being boring have to do with being better or worse?

Curry's basketball skill is more obvious to any casual watcher than that of the others.
What does the ability of a casual watcher to discern a player's skill have to do with their skill?

[Shogon]

In fact I'm pretty sure that peak Garnett would probably do as good a job guarding Durant as anyone in NBA history. Maybe the best.

[ImKobe]

In fact I'm pretty sure that peak Garnett would probably do as good a job guarding Durant as anyone in NBA history. Maybe the best.


https://youtu.be/Um96aNyokXc

[Stephonit]

Why does being boring have to do with being better or worse?

What does the ability of a casual watcher to discern a player's skill have to do with their skill?

Some things are so obviously good you don't need to create a marketing campaign to sell it.

[LAL]

I might even take peak KG over peak Duncan, but no higher.

The man could defend most everyone 1 through 5 and he was an absolute nightmare matchup for everyone on both sides of the ball because of his midrange game and speed for his size. I never once saw anyone guard peak McGrady better(2001 through 2004). Nobody.

lol

[ShawkFactory]

I might even take peak KG over peak Duncan, but no higher.

The man could defend most everyone 1 through 5 and he was an absolute nightmare matchup for everyone on both sides of the ball because of his midrange game and speed for his size. I never once saw anyone guard peak McGrady better(2001 through 2004). Nobody.

Tayshaun Prince and AK47 are the best I saw.

[nineiron]

Tayshaun Prince and AK47 are the best I saw.

all your base is belong to us

[Bronbron23]

Curry's offense would be even more effective because they didn't protect the perimeter as well. Curry would bring spacing to a game that didn't recognize its benefits as much. Don't you remember all the times teams traded possessions clanking and clanking missed shots? If he ends up shooting threes or not will depend on if the coach can appreciate his gifts or not. But the potential will still be there.

It's such a weird way to look at it though. Curry isn't a future teller. He would shoot the same amount of threes of every other really good shooter. There's this myth that curry change the game but he didn't. Daryl morey is responsible for that. If curry was in the 90's his main job would be to get the ball to the post like every other great point gaurd and he'd be shooting the same amount as every other great shooter.

[ShawkFactory]

all your base is belong to us

Is that...English?

[Stephonit]

It's such a weird way to look at it though. Curry isn't a future teller. He would shoot the same amount of threes of every other really good shooter. There's this myth that curry change the game but he didn't. Daryl morey is responsible for that. If curry was in the 90's his main job would be to get the ball to the post like every other great point gaurd and he'd be shooting the same amount as every other great shooter.

Curry set the three-point record in 2013. Why would he not continue to set records shooting threes if he had an even remotely competent coach who'd try to make use of his skill set?

[Bronbron23]

Curry set the three-point record in 2013. Why would he not continue to set records shooting threes if he had an even remotely competent coach who'd try to make use of his skill set?

He shot .4 more threes than the second player in attempts ryan anderson. he would be the best shooter in the league in the 90's also and shoot .4 more than the next highest which means curry would shoot around 5 or 6 threes a game at best.

You don’t know what your talking about man.

[BlackMamba8]

Lebron is the most manufactured star ever....average basketball skills....lucky he has great teammates to back him up....**** him

[000]

If long shots were so impossible in the prehistoric ages, how come fking George mccloud took 9 of them per game in 1996? The line was only shortened by less than 2 feet - a uniform 22 ft like at the corners

[Bronbron23]

If long shots were so impossible in the prehistoric ages, how come fking George mccloud took 9 of them per game in 1996? The line was only shortened by less than 2 feet - a uniform 22 ft like at the corners

They weren't impossible that's not what it's about. It was just a different philosophy back then. Partly because of ignorance and Partly because of the rules.

And that george McCloud stat is definitely an odd one but steph only shot half that in tbe early 2010's with the same amount of minutes in an era where teams were shooting 10 more threes than in 96 so to suggest curry would shoot anywhere close to 10 threes a game in the 90's is just stupid.

[000]

They weren't impossible that's not what it's about. It was just a different philosophy back then. Partly because of ignorance and Partly because of the rules.

And that george McCloud stat is definitely an odd one but steph only shot half that in tbe early 2010's with the same amount of minutes in an era where teams were shooting 10 more threes than in 96 so to suggest curry would shoot anywhere close to 10 threes a game in the 90's is just stupid.
The rules or philosophy didnt stop mccloud from taking 9 or Starks from taking 8 in 1995 or Blaylock from taking 8 in 1997. Im sure you think Curry is worse than all those guys though:facepalm

[Bronbron23]

The rules or philosophy didnt stop mccloud from taking 9 or Starks from taking 8 in 1995 or Blaylock from taking 8 in 1997. Im sure you think Curry is worse than all those guys though:facepalm

Nope curry is better already said he'd be the best shooter in the 90's but good try.

And you keep bringing up the shortened 3 point line 3 year span. During those 3 years the league average for attempts more than doubled. I already said he'd shoot around 5 threes a game in the 90's so obviously he's gonna shoot way more in those shortened years like mccloud, starks and Blaylock who all shot way less threes before and after the shortened 3pt line.

Use common sense buddy. In the early 2010's when league average was around 20 threes per game steph shot 5 threes a game. He's not gonna shoot more than that in an era where the league average was half of that. You really can't be that stupid?

[hold this L]

Nope curry is better already said he'd be the best shooter in the 90's but good try.

And you keep bringing up the shortened 3 point line 3 year span. During those 3 years the league average for attempts more than doubled. I already said he'd shoot around 5 threes a game in the 90's so obviously he's gonna shoot way more in those shortened years like mccloud, starks and Blaylock who all shot way less threes before and after the shortened 3pt line.

Use common sense buddy. In the early 2010's when league average was around 20 threes per game steph shot 5 threes a game. He's not gonna shoot more than that in an era where the league average was half of that. You really can't be that stupid?
Stop pretending to know how many 3s Curry would take if he played in the 90s. You don't know, neither do I or anyone else. Guess it's hard to do that when the guy lives rent free in your headspace like a 7-11, 24 hours a day.

[tpols]

Pretty much any star that relies on free throws and offensive fouling is a fraud. So there's few that are legit. Off the top of my head Kawhi, Curry, Jokic, Luka, Paul George, Tatum, Beal, Kyrie, Dame etc.

AD, Durant, and Paul are serial floppers despite their immense talent they cheat the game. Lebron and Giannis offensive foul and are rewarded for it. Don't know who else I'm missing.

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs


KD, Lillard, Beal and company are not among the best in the world - the NBA's beginner format simply inflates their stats and makes them look good..

In a real basketball format (international rules), KD and company are role players.. bums... SOFT, ball-dominant fools dribbling around like a chicken with their head cut off, but not actually good at basketball.

[000]

Nope curry is better already said he'd be the best shooter in the 90's but good try.

And you keep bringing up the shortened 3 point line 3 year span. During those 3 years the league average for attempts more than doubled. I already said he'd shoot around 5 threes a game in the 90's so obviously he's gonna shoot way more in those shortened years like mccloud, starks and Blaylock who all shot way less threes before and after the shortened 3pt line.

Use common sense buddy. In the early 2010's when league average was around 20 threes per game steph shot 5 threes a game. He's not gonna shoot more than that in an era where the league average was half of that. You really can't be that stupid?
Dudes like Mccloud were taking 8-9 shots from 22 ft and you think it was IMPOSSIBLE to take a bunch of 24 ft shots in that league. Thats hilarious lol

[tpols]

.
Thread Cliffs


KD, Lillard, Beal and company are not among the best in the world - the NBA's beginner format simply inflates their stats and makes them look good..

In a real basketball format (international rules), KD and company are role players.. bums... SOFT, ball-dominant fools dribbling around like a chicken with their head cut off, but not actually good at basketball.

Dame and Beal don't really rely on soft calls. Dame especially bombs from the field. He does play an Iso style that isn't team oriented though. Durant is immensely talented but he's literally had rules named after him. He patented the rip through move because it was the only way he could attempt to create space with a defender in his shirt. And the sad thing is all the league did was make it a non shooting foul. Its still called a foul on the defensive player if an offensive players throws his arms into the defenders and flails and loses the ball. Soft ass bullshit. Just another instance of the offensive player initiating contact and then acting like he got hit, and gets the call if he's a star. You don't see too many role players attempting a rip through move because they know they wouldn't get the call and it would be a fastbreak for the opposing team.

[Bronbron23]

Stop pretending to know how many 3s Curry would take if he played in the 90s. You don't know, neither do I or anyone else. Guess it's hard to do that when the guy lives rent free in your headspace like a 7-11, 24 hours a day.

Again it's just facts and common sense. You can ignore it if you want and live in a fantasy world where curry would be a fortune teller and shoot 10 3's a game in an era where whole teams were shooting almost half that. Makes you wonder why he didn't use these future telling super powers in this reality before daryl morey and the rockets changed the game and started shooting more threes. He was better shooter in the league from jump. Why didn't he shoot a crazy amout of threes right away?

Again these are just facts dude. Curry has always shot in between 1/4 and 1/3 of his teams threes. This is no different than Reggie miller or any other great 3 point shooter in the 90's. To think curry without hindsight would shoot 10 threes a game in an era where whole teams weren't shooting that is literally retarded.

[3ba11]

Again it's just facts and common sense. You can ignore it if you want and live in a fantasy world where curry would be a fortune teller and shoot 10 3's a game in an era where whole teams were shooting almost half that. Makes you wonder why he didn't use these future telling super powers in this reality before daryl morey and the rockets changed the game and started shooting more threes. He was better shooter in the league from jump. Why didn't he shoot a crazy amout of threes right away?

Again these are just facts dude. Curry has always shot in between 1/4 and 1/3 of his teams threes. This is no different than Reggie miller or any other great 3 point shooter in the 90's. To think curry without hindsight would shoot 10 threes a game in an era where whole teams weren't shooting that is literally retarded.


^^^ that's just smart facts right there.. you aren't really offering an opinion - you're just stating the historical record

[tpols]

Again it's just facts and common sense. You can ignore it if you want and live in a fantasy world where curry would be a fortune teller and shoot 10 3's a game in an era where whole teams were shooting almost half that. Makes you wonder why he didn't use these future telling super powers in this reality before daryl morey and the rockets changed the game and started shooting more threes. He was better shooter in the league from jump. Why didn't he shoot a crazy amout of threes right away?

Again these are just facts dude. Curry has always shot in between 1/4 and 1/3 of his teams threes. This is no different than Reggie miller or any other great 3 point shooter in the 90's. To think curry without hindsight would shoot 10 threes a game in an era where whole teams weren't shooting that is literally retarded.

All you're arguing is that past eras and coaching could have stifled Curry true game. Its pointless to speculate what he'd be like if he had been held back. The fact is if you dropped prime curry in the 90s as he is he'd look like an alien bombing 3s and stretching the floor like no other player that's ever been seen. That's the reality of the situation. No 90s player had his combination of off ball route running, dribbling and deep shooting. Reggie had the off ball but couldn't go as deep and didn't have half the handle yet his scoring was totally dominant. 120 ORTG on 24 PPG across 100+ playoff games in a brutal low scoring era. That's 30 PPG today.

[Bronbron23]

Dudes like Mccloud were taking 8-9 shots from 22 ft and you think it was IMPOSSIBLE to take a bunch of 24 ft shots in that league. Thats hilarious lol

Again impossible has nothing to do with it. It's common sense and facts. Steph like reggie miller and every other atg three point shooter shoots 25-30% of his teams 3pt shots. You idiots act like he"d have this era's hindsight in the 90's and shoot 10 3's a game. He didn't even have this hindsight just 10 years ago when he was shooting 5 threes a game so why would he have this hindsight if he was born in an era where threes were even less important than they were 10 yeara ago? The shit is dumb af.

Now if your talking about steph going back with hindsight than sure that's a different story.

[000]

^^^ that's just smart facts right there.. you aren't really offering an opinion - you're just stating the historical record

The "historical record" is that anyone could shoot as many long shots as they wanted to - they just didnt

[3ba11]

All you're arguing is that past eras and coaching could have stifled Curry true game. Its pointless to speculate what he'd be like if he had been held back. The fact is if you dropped prime curry in the 90s as he is he'd look like an alien bombing 3s and stretching the floor like no other player that's ever been seen. That's the reality of the situation. No 90s player had his combination of off ball route running, dribbling and deep shooting. Reggie had the off ball but couldn't go as deep and didn't have half the handle yet his scoring was totally dominant. 120 ORTG on 24 PPG across 100+ playoff games in a brutal low scoring era. That's 30 PPG today.


Curry only took 5 threes a game for the first 3 years of his career, so he'd take half that in the 90's or wouldn't have even played basketball at all because threes weren't a thing back then

[Bronbron23]

All you're arguing is that past eras and coaching could have stifled Curry true game. Its pointless to speculate what he'd be like if he had been held back. The fact is if you dropped prime curry in the 90s as he is he'd look like an alien bombing 3s and stretching the floor like no other player that's ever been seen. That's the reality of the situation. No 90s player had his combination of off ball route running, dribbling and deep shooting. Reggie had the off ball but couldn't go as deep and didn't have half the handle yet his scoring was totally dominant. 120 ORTG on 24 PPG across 100+ playoff games in a brutal low scoring era. That's 30 PPG today.

If your talking about steph going back to the 90's with hindsight like in a time machine than yes its a different story but that's just dumb af. If were talking about steph coming up in the 90's like everyone else than he absolutely wouldn't be doing what he's doing now. He'd be shooting 25-30% of his teams threes then just like he does now.

[000]

Curry only took 5 threes a game for the first 3 years of his career, so he'd take half that in the 90's or wouldn't have even played basketball at all because threes weren't a thing back then

If players cant improve after their first couple years then whats up with your constant complaining about Kuzma???

[3ba11]

If players cant improve after their first couple years then whats up with your constant complaining about Kuzma???


think about it this way - if bill gates came along 100 years ago, the technology didn't exist for him to do his add-on (turn a mainframe into a personal computer)... so he would've done something else entirely - probably be a mathematician or something.

it's the same with Curry - he came along at the right time when threes were becoming a thing.. Curry might not even play basketball in an era where threes weren't a thing.. He simply came along at the right time

[Bronbron23]

The "historical record" is that anyone could shoot as many long shots as they wanted to - they just didnt

Right and steph wouldn't have either dummy. He wouldn't have been born with this era's hindsight back then. He didn't have the hindsight just 10 years ago

[Bronbron23]

^^^ that's just smart facts right there.. you aren't really offering an opinion - you're just stating the historical record

Yeah these guys are dumb af. This is just basic common sense

[Airupthere]

think about it this way - if bill gates came along 100 years ago, the technology didn't exist for him to do his add-on (turn a mainframe into a personal computer)... so he would've done something else entirely - probably be a mathematician or something.

it's the same with Curry - he came along at the right time when threes were becoming a thing.. Curry might not even play basketball in an era where threes weren't a thing.. He simply came along at the right time

Lebron is living in an era where more liberty is allowed for ballhandlers. Why the fk is his dribbling still so basic?

With this logic, if you bring Lebron back to the 80s, how ugly could his dribbling have been?

[ShawkFactory]

Curry only took 5 threes a game for the first 3 years of his career, so he'd take half that in the 90's or wouldn't have even played basketball at all because threes weren't a thing back then

So in this hypothetical world you continue to create...do only the stars of today go back and have how they played change?

Like...would Chris Mullin being doing exactly what he did then if he graduated high school in 2014? How about Adrian Dantley?

You don’t get to just take what guys do now in the environment they’ve grown up in and transport them back as if they wouldn’t have developed in a different environment. And you certainly don’t get to do that while not applying it on the other end

[000]

So yalls argument is "Curry wouldnt have shot threes because everyone was dumb and wouldnt have taught him to"

Okay? Like, wtf

[Bronbron23]

think about it this way - if bill gates came along 100 years ago, the technology didn't exist for him to do his add-on (turn a mainframe into a personal computer)... so he would've done something else entirely - probably be a mathematician or something.

it's the same with Curry - he came along at the right time when threes were becoming a thing.. Curry might not even play basketball in an era where threes weren't a thing.. He simply came along at the right time

Ok well i wouldn't go that far lol. Curry would still be nice with it. He just wouldn't be doing what he's doing now because the point gaurd role was different and players and teams weren't shooting as many threes.

[tpols]

If your talking about steph going back to the 90's with hindsight like in a time machine than yes its a different story but that's just dumb af. If were talking about steph coming up in the 90's like everyone else than he absolutely wouldn't be doing what he's doing now. He'd be shooting 25-30% of his teams threes then just like he does now.

That's not dumb as ****. What you're saying is dumb as **** because you're ignoring the reality of what curry is and placing his worth on some type of hypothetical version of himself instead of what he is.

It would be like saying Nikola Tesla ain't shit because if he had been born 1000 years ago he wouldn't have the labs to allow him to make genius discoveries. Or saying if Isaac newton grew up in the stone age he couldnt have discovered advanced physics.

Its a retarded position to take. Genius is genius.

You would only have a point if the 3pt line didn't exist in the 90s but it did.

[hold this L]

Again it's just facts and common sense. You can ignore it if you want and live in a fantasy world where curry would be a fortune teller and shoot 10 3's a game in an era where whole teams were shooting almost half that. Makes you wonder why he didn't use these future telling super powers in this reality before daryl morey and the rockets changed the game and started shooting more threes. He was better shooter in the league from jump. Why didn't he shoot a crazy amout of threes right away?

Again these are just facts dude. Curry has always shot in between 1/4 and 1/3 of his teams threes. This is no different than Reggie miller or any other great 3 point shooter in the 90's. To think curry without hindsight would shoot 10 threes a game in an era where whole teams weren't shooting that is literally retarded.
There's no facts here you idiot. You're guessing on ahypothetical situation. On top of that, there are other guys that have taken more 3PA that what Curry would hypothetically take in your dumb dream like scenario, which I'm guessing is what you consider common sense.


At least the guys that troll about Curry are obvious about it, you pretend like you're writing something intelligent. Often the case it's the furthest from that.

[Bronbron23]

So your argument is "Curry wouldnt have shot threes because everyone was dumb and wouldnt have taught him to"

Okay? Like, wtf

Holy shit your an idiot. What a weird way to look at the past. Were people dumb for using a type writer before computers too? You might be the dumbest person in this place and that's saying alot

[tpols]

think about it this way - if bill gates came along 100 years ago, the technology didn't exist for him to do his add-on (turn a mainframe into a personal computer)... so he would've done something else entirely - probably be a mathematician or something.

it's the same with Curry - he came along at the right time when threes were becoming a thing.. Curry might not even play basketball in an era where threes weren't a thing.. He simply came along at the right time

And if MJ had been born in the 1700s he wouldn't be a pro basketball player. He'd be something totally else. That's a stupid argument. They are what they are.

[Airupthere]

That's not dumb as ****. What you're saying is dumb as **** because you're ignoring the reality of what curry is and placing his worth on some type of hypothetical version of himself instead of what he is.

It would be like saying Nikola Tesla ain't shit because if he had been born 1000 years ago he wouldn't have the labs to allow him to make genius discoveries. Or saying if Isaac newton grew up in the stone age he couldnt have discovered advanced physics.

Its a retarded position to take. Genius is genius.

You would only have a point if the 3pt line didn't exist in the 90s but it did.

Stuff that Newton discovered are easy material for high school students now. Time machine high schoolers back to Newton's time, that would scare the sht out of the geniuses at that time. Is this really the analogy you want to make?

Newton is still considered one of the greatest minds because of the breakthroughs he accomplished given the limited resources of his time.

[3ba11]

Lebron is living in an era where more liberty is allowed for ballhandlers. Why the fk is his dribbling still so basic?


The lack of hand-checking allows him to go by defenders with simple live dribble fundamentals (cadence footwork).. Same thing happened with Nash - no one could stay in front of him because you couldn't put your hands on him and his live dribble footwork was textbook (it gets the defender's momentum leaning the wrong way)..

But ultimately, Lebron's lack of dribble moves (and weak jumper) is one of the contributing factors to him often struggling in the halfcourt against tight defense or down the stretch of games (clutch time)..

Plus, guys that size can't do fancy dribbling like Kyrie - not quick enough - Lebron is quick, but only for a power forward - his quickness is more normal for a guard.. And he's got that stiff arm. Top 5 stiff-arm of all-time.. (not even goat at the stiff-arm)

[3ba11]

And if MJ had been born in the 1700s he wouldn't be a pro basketball player. He'd be something totally else. That's a stupid argument. They are what they are.


basketball didn't exist in the 1700's, so jordan couldn't have played

but he would've played in the 60's, while curry obviously wouldn't

[ShawkFactory]

basketball didn't exist in the 1700's, so jordan couldn't have played

but he would've played in the 60's, while curry obviously wouldn't

Why? Is Curry less skilled than Bob Cousy, let alone a non MVP level player

[000]

League average 3pt attempts only increased by 1-1.5 every year from 2013-2016, and they were almost constant from 2010-2012

So for all we know its Currys mega MVP season that made everyone shift... maybe he would have shocked the 90s similarly. Barring any "Jordan would have won 0 titles pre-desegregation"-type shenanigans

[Bronbron23]

There's no facts here you idiot. You're guessing on ahypothetical situation. On top of that, there are other guys that have taken more 3PA that what Curry would hypothetically take in your dumb dream like scenario, which I'm guessing is what you consider common sense.


At least the guys that troll about Curry are obvious about it, you pretend like you're writing something intelligent. Often the case it's the furthest from that.

Nope. I gave the facts dummy.

Fact: curry shoots 25-30% of his teams threes.
Fact: teams shot between 7 and 15 threes a game back then.
Fact: 30% of 15 is 4.5(reggie shot around this in early 90's)
Fact: 30% of 7 is 2.1(bird shot around this in the 80's)
Fact: before the 3 point craziness started by daryl morley curry didn't even shoot 5 3's a game.

Try again dummy:facepalm

[000]

Holy shit your an idiot. What a weird way to look at the past. Were people dumb for using a type writer before computers too? You might be the dumbest person in this place and that's saying alot

Actually yeah, they were pretty dumb for taking a ton of 22 ft shots, but not realising they could take 1 step further and get a 50% bonus... either that or limited shooters

[3ba11]

And if MJ had been born in the 1700s he wouldn't be a pro basketball player. He'd be something totally else. That's a stupid argument. They are what they are.


it's called evolution... it exists... and just like Bill Gates couldn't have invented the personal computer before he did, Curry couldn't have taken a bunch of threes before he did.

btw, the high-screen, drive-and-kick format didn't exist in the 90's for curry or teams to take that many threes... only once the high-screen roll was a thing could Curry take that many threes - he isn't taking 10 threes running around screens all game like Miller did

[Bronbron23]

That's not dumb as ****. What you're saying is dumb as **** because you're ignoring the reality of what curry is and placing his worth on some type of hypothetical version of himself instead of what he is.

It would be like saying Nikola Tesla ain't shit because if he had been born 1000 years ago he wouldn't have the labs to allow him to make genius discoveries. Or saying if Isaac newton grew up in the stone age he couldnt have discovered advanced physics.

Its a retarded position to take. Genius is genius.

You would only have a point if the 3pt line didn't exist in the 90s but it did.

Holy shit you are dumb. Nobody is saying curry aint shit he'd still be great he'd just take less threes.

And yes dummy 1000 years ago nikola tesla wouldn't be able to do what he does now because technology was less advanced. Thanks for proving my point dummy:facepalm

[3ba11]

Holy shit you are dumb. Nobody is saying curry aint shit he'd still be great he'd just take less threes.

And yes dummy 1000 years ago nikola tesla wouldn't be able to do what he does now because of technology less advanced. Thanks for proving my point dummy:facepalm


Also, the high-screen, drive-and-kick format didn't exist in the 90's for curry or teams to take that many threes... only once the high-screen roll was a thing could Curry take that many threes - he isn't taking 10 threes running around screens all game like Miller did.. only today's drive-and-kick format produces that volume of threes.

[tpols]

it's called evolution... it exists... and just like Bill Gates couldn't have invented the personal computer before he did, Curry couldn't have taken a bunch of threes before he did.

btw, the high-screen, drive-and-kick format didn't exist for curry or teams to take that many threes... only once the high-screen roll was a thing could Curry take that many threes - he isn't taking 10 threes running around screens all game like Miller did

That's the point. :oldlol:

Curry is basketball evolution. Its dumb as hell to criticize somebody for furthering the game and only judging them on a hypothetical past version. You tell me, what would MJ be doing if he had been born 100 years earlier? Or even in 1890 or whatever when basketball was first created. What would he have been doing? That's your argument.

[Bronbron23]

basketball didn't exist in the 1700's, so jordan couldn't have played

but he would've played in the 60's, while curry obviously wouldn't

Good point. This idiot probably thinks mj would actually play basketball if was born in 1700's:facepalm

[3ba11]

That's the point. :oldlol:

Curry is basketball evolution. Its dumb as hell to criticize somebody for furthering the game and only judging them on a hypothetical past version. You tell me, what would MJ be doing if he had been born 100 years earlier?


Curry didn't invent the high screen roll, and that's the only way that today's teams and players can take the volume they do - today's high-screen, drive-and-kick format is what generates 30 threes a game... Without it, Curry and teams can't take that many threes - a player can't get 10 threes a game by running off screens like Miller did.

Again, it's an evolution and the game hadn't evolved sufficiently in the 90's for Curry to take that many threes.

and btw, i don't think it's an evolution - i think the high screen has devolved the game and our skills (see this year's olympics), but that's another thread.

[000]

Good point. This idiot probably thinks mj would actually play basketball if was born in 1700's:facepalm

What your point again?

"if people had different circumstances they would turn out different" Is that all?

[tpols]

Good point. This idiot probably thinks mj would actually play basketball if was born in 1700's:facepalm

Dummy you and 3ball are the one time traveling players. I'm mocking you. What does MJs game look like in 1890 at the advent of basketball? That's your argument dummy. I don't time travel players. I view them for what they are.

[3ba11]

Dummy you and 3ball are the one time traveling players. I'm mocking you. What does MJs game look like in 1890 at the advent of basketball? That's your argument dummy. I don't time travel players. I view them for what they are.


it's an evolution and the game hadn't evolved sufficiently in the 90's for Curry to take that many threes - he wouldn't be coming off high screens and popping threes like he does today.

Curry didn't invent the high screen roll, and that's the only way that today's teams and players can take the volume they do - today's high-screen, drive-and-kick format is what generates 30 threes a game... Without it, Curry and teams can't take that many threes - a player can't get 10 threes a game by running off screens like Miller did.

and btw, i don't think it's an evolution - i think the high screen has devolved the game and our skills (see this year's olympics), but that's another thread.

[Bronbron23]

Actually yeah, they were pretty dumb for taking a ton of 22 ft shots, but not realising they could take 1 step further and get a 50% bonus... either that or limited shooters

That's fine if that's your position. That's a whole different discussion though because the rules played a role in that also but that's a better position forsure. What's dumb is assuming curry would have hindsight and shoot more threes than whole teams back then. He didn't even shoot 5 threes a game 10 years ago when the league average was 20. What in the hell makes you think he'd shoot 10 threes a game when the league average was half that. Again that logic is just dumb af

[000]

When people are raised and trained completely differently, they turn out completely different
Okay.

[3ba11]

That's fine if that's your position. That's a whole different discussion though because the rules played a role in that also but that's a better position forsure. What's dumb is assuming curry would have hindsight and shoot more threes than whole teams back then. He didn't even shoot 5 threes a game 10 years ago when the league average was 20. What in the hell makes you think he'd shoot 10 threes a game when the league average was half that. Again that logic is just dumb af


The elimination of hand-checking paved the way for D'Antoni's drive-and-kick format that generates all the threes.

So it's just a fact that Curry wouldn't take as many threes in the 90's because the rules and format didn't exist to generate the kind of volume we see today..

[Bronbron23]

Dummy you and 3ball are the one time traveling players. I'm mocking you. What does MJs game look like in 1890 at the advent of basketball? That's your argument dummy. I don't time travel players. I view them for what they are.

Right but it's stupid af to apply for exactly what they are in a different era without using common sense. Every 100 m runner now days would blow owens out the water. you probably think they'd all run the same times 80 years ago also. You really can't be that ignorant dude

[Stephonit]

The elimination of hand-checking paved the way for D'Antoni's drive-and-kick format that generates all the threes.

So it's just a fact that Curry wouldn't take as many threes in the 90's because the rules and format didn't exist to generate the kind of volume we see today..

Steph weaponized the pull-up three. Given how the perimeter was defended at the time, high screen and roll unnecessary.

[ShawkFactory]

As it's own thread cliff: I love how KD is being lumped into this.

As a 21-year-old in 2010 he led US to gold scoring 23ppg with 28 in the final. In 2012 he scored 20ppg with 30 in the final. In 2016 he scored 20ppg with again....30 in the final.

Trying to act like he struggles with the international game is an embarrassing case of recency bias.

[3ba11]

Steph weaponized the pull-up three. Given how the perimeter was defended at the time, high screen and roll unnecessary.


I just watched a bunch of Curry footage - Curry is always coming off a high screen when he pulls up for three.. Literally every time except the rare one-off

So if we took out the high screen roll, drive-and-kick format, not only would Curry take less threes, but TEAMS wouldn't be able to take 30 threes a game.. They'd max out at about 20 or less... And again, Curry wouldn't take anywhere near as many threes because he'd have to run off screens all game like Reggie Miller... No more high screen beginner format

[Bronbron23]

What your point again?

"if people had different circumstances they would turn out different" Is that all?

Well that's likely but that's not really what I'm getting at. All i'm saying is you can't apply hindsight to previous eras standards and norms. It's like saying if u were born in tge 50's you'd dress the same as you do now. You clearly wouldn't. You'd dress like everyone else.

Applying this to this discussion. Curry wouldn't have hindsight. He wouldn't be shooting 10 threes a game like everyone now. He'd be shooting 5 threes a game like everyone then. He'd still be the best It's just a different norm and standard.

[Bronbron23]

The elimination of hand-checking paved the way for D'Antoni's drive-and-kick format that generates all the threes.

So it's just a fact that Curry wouldn't take as many threes in the 90's because the rules and format didn't exist to generate the kind of volume we see today..

Yeah that's definitely a factor. I just think it accounts for a bit less than you do.

[3ba11]

Yeah that's definitely a factor. I just think it accounts for a bit less than you do.


Go watch some Curry footage - every three he takes is off a high screen.. or almost every three.

that high screen didn't exist in the 90's... the high screen gets Curry a lot of threes, and the drive-and-kick format gets teams a lot of the threes... neither existed in the 90's

[Bronbron23]

Go watch some Curry footage - every three he takes is off a high screen.. or almost every three.

that high screen didn't exist in the 90's... the high screen gets Curry a lot of threes, and the drive-and-kick format gets teams a lot of the threes... neither existed in the 90's

Forsure but it's not like he dosn't hit threes off the dribble also or hit threes off his elite movement. I agree that this era benefits him like it does most perimeter players. I don't agree that he wouldn't still be a great player. He'd maybe score 5-7 pts less a game on slightly less efficiency.

[MadDog]

Curry would be great in any era. But there's no denying today's rules give him a boost. Both in efficiency and spacing. Wont speculate on the averages, but I do know those soft ass picks would be nullified in the 90s. Back then you could fight threw them and use your hands.

If games were called like this past finals, I wouldn't have a problem. Still a lot of threes, but I'm cool with that if you allow defenders to ball.

[tontoz]

Reggie Miller was running around taking 3 off screens all the time back in the 90s. He averaged 6.6 attempts back in '97 and he wasn't taking them off the dribble hardly at all. I see no reason to believe Steph wouldn't be taking a lot of 3s, probably 10+.

[3ba11]

Forsure but it's not like he dosn't hit threes off the dribble also or hit threes off his elite movement. I agree that this era benefits him like it does most perimeter players. I don't agree that he wouldn't still be a great player. He'd maybe score 5-7 pts less a game on slightly less efficiency.


with no high screens in the 90's, about 75% of Curry's attempts are not available

[j3lademaster]

Are we acting like all Curry can do is shoot 3's? He's as complete an offensive weapon as anyone in history.

Curry is a career 52% shooter on his 2 pointers, with 9 attempts/game; with notable seasons of 57% at 9 attempts just this past season, 9 attempts on 57% in 16, 7 attempts on a whopping 59.5% in 18. Yes, Curry shot Shaq percentage from 2 in 2018. Am I saying he's as effective as Shaq is? No, absolutely not. He can't carry the volume at that efficiency. But to pretend like this guy's just a walking 3 pointer and doesn't have alltime midrange skills and finishing ability is weird to me.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41m0Qc3oHvB9SqS4/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/poJA2fmxMhkqc/giphy.gif

[DoctorP]

Curry sucks, he's an overrated chucker and choker. :lol

[j3lademaster]

Curry sucks, he's an overrated chucker and choker. :lolSo far... I guess. He definitely has an alltime level chokejob in 2011, and it's tough to give him credit for 17 and 18 because his team was just way too good. But he played well in the 19 finals without KD and an injured Klay. I'm curious what current Steph would look like back on the big stage.

[DoctorP]

So far... I guess. He definitely has an alltime level chokejob in 2011, and it's tough to give him credit for 17 and 18 because his team was just way too good. But he played well in the 19 finals without KD and an injured Klay. I'm curious what current Steph would look like back on the big stage.

Don't forget he also got his ass handed to him by Ja Morant this year.

[tontoz]

Don't forget he also got his ass handed to him by Ja Morant this year.


:roll:


Curry outscored Ja 46-16 in the last game of the regular season to get the 8 seed. Outscored Ja in the play in game as well.

In the regular season Ja averaged 15 against GS.

[DoctorP]

:roll:


Curry outscored Ja 46-16 in the last game of the regular season to get the 8 seed. Outscored Ja in the play in game as well.

In the regular season Ja averaged 15 against GS.

obviously, if you disagree with me youre a box score watcher and your opinion means nothing to me.

Ja killed Steph

[j3lademaster]

obviously, if you disagree with me youre a box score watcher and your opinion means nothing to me.

Ja killed StephGotta respect a guy who sticks to his guns.

[Axe]

Are we acting like all Curry can do is shoot 3's? He's as complete an offensive weapon as anyone in history.

Curry is a career 52% shooter on his 2 pointers, with 9 attempts/game; with notable seasons of 57% at 9 attempts just this past season, 9 attempts on 57% in 16, 7 attempts on a whopping 59.5% in 18. Yes, Curry shot Shaq percentage from 2 in 2018. Am I saying he's as effective as Shaq is? No, absolutely not. He can't carry the volume at that efficiency. But to pretend like this guy's just a walking 3 pointer and doesn't have alltime midrange skills and finishing ability is weird to me.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41m0Qc3oHvB9SqS4/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/poJA2fmxMhkqc/giphy.gif
In the playoffs tho, those numbers would plummet anyway. Fortunately for him, he had good teammates to bail him out when he's had some bad shooting nights during those finals runs. But that losers bracket from two months earlier only proved that he needed klay just to carry his team to the playoff picture. Also elevated opposing players like caruso in that play-ins.

[clipps]

Curry's basketball skill is more obvious to any casual watcher than that of the others.

Shut the **** up, dumb shit.

[j3lademaster]

In the playoffs tho, those numbers would plummet anyway. Fortunately for him, he had good teammates to bail him out when he's had some bad shooting nights during those finals runs. But that losers bracket from two months earlier only proved that he needed klay just to carry his team to the playoff picture. Also elevated opposing players like caruso in that play-ins.Well... yeah he needs someone. A Kat/Wiggins core was a perennial 30 win team in minnie outside the one season with Butler, Oubre's ok, Wiseman is still raw and is lost out there 80% of the time, Draymond has become the most overrated player in the league.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agweoc1cYHQ



I don't know what happened to him since 2016. He can't shoot, he can't hit a midrange, he's not a threat from the post, can't finish around the rim... I mean, why even stand out there if you're not ready and willing to shoot the 3? You're just a pure offensive liability at that point. He's a pretty good defender and a pretty good passer, that's it. Curry had no help and was still "2016" levels of efficient with similar volume. I conceded his finals choking in a previous post.


So far... I guess. He definitely has an alltime level chokejob in 2011, and it's tough to give him credit for 17 and 18 because his team was just way too good. But he played well in the 19 finals without KD and an injured Klay. I'm curious what current Steph would look like back on the big stage.

[Axe]

Shut the **** up, dumb shit.
:roll:

[Axe]

Well... yeah he needs someone. A Kat/Wiggins core was a perennial 30 win team in minnie outside the one season with Butler, Oubre's ok, Wiseman is still raw and is lost out there 80% of the time, Draymond has become the most overrated player in the league.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agweoc1cYHQ



I don't know what happened to him since 2016. He can't shoot, he can't hit a midrange, he's not a threat from the post, can't finish around the rim... I mean, why even stand out there if you're not ready and willing to shoot the 3? You're just a pure offensive liability at that point. He's a pretty good defender and a pretty good passer, that's it. Curry had no help and was still "2016" levels of efficient with similar volume. I conceded his finals choking in a previous post.
Sure, draymond green looked like a role player after that year. Idk why as well but i guess he's more concerned with double-doubles nowadays. Anyway, i was kinda expecting curry to elevate his own teammates somehow. You know, like what bran usually did with scrubs tho i guess he ain't that type of player at all. Also, he could have coped or make-up by playing defense if his threes aren't hitting since i believe it'd be a big help for his team. Without klay, they won't get to the finals but at least a playoff spot is likely if that became the case.

[tontoz]

obviously, if you disagree with me youre a box score watcher and your opinion means nothing to me.

Ja killed Steph


46 to 16 is in the battle for the 8 seed is getting killed. I watched the game. It was embarrassing.

Steph only played Memphis twice all year, scoring 85 points in those two games. That isn't a typo.

[3ba11]

Curry is done - he'll never make another Finals or have a good run - his brief flirtation with elite winning was due to a brief strategy advantage on the league - that's how he won a bunch of games with somewhat weak help in 15' and 16'

but that strategy advantage is long over.

the league caught up to his 3-point contest - now every team can replicate what the Warriors did.. That's why they sucked this year despite Curry having at least 4 rookie Pippen's on his team - couldn't even make the playoffs with 4 rookie Pippen's..

but you curry fans keep hoping and wishing upon a star that the glory days return - they won't

[tontoz]

Curry is done - he'll never make another Finals or have a good run - his brief flirtation with elite winning was due to a very brief strategy advantage on the league

that strategy advantage is long over.

the league caught up to his 3-point contest - now every team can replicate what the Warriors did.. That's why they sucked this year despite Curry having at least 4 rookie Pippen's on his team - couldn't even make the playoffs with 4 rookie Pippen's..

but you curry fans keep hoping and wishing upon a star that the glory days return - they won't


He just won a scoring title with a TS over 65%, something MJ never did.

[3ba11]

He just won a scoring title with a TS over 65%, something MJ never did.


Jordan won 6 titles as scoring champ, whereas Curry couldn't carry 4 Pippen's to the playoffs

[Bronbron23]

Are we acting like all Curry can do is shoot 3's? He's as complete an offensive weapon as anyone in history.

Curry is a career 52% shooter on his 2 pointers, with 9 attempts/game; with notable seasons of 57% at 9 attempts just this past season, 9 attempts on 57% in 16, 7 attempts on a whopping 59.5% in 18. Yes, Curry shot Shaq percentage from 2 in 2018. Am I saying he's as effective as Shaq is? No, absolutely not. He can't carry the volume at that efficiency. But to pretend like this guy's just a walking 3 pointer and doesn't have alltime midrange skills and finishing ability is weird to me.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l41m0Qc3oHvB9SqS4/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/poJA2fmxMhkqc/giphy.gif

He's definitely not just a 3 point shooter but the 3 point aspect is pretty significant.

And curry wouldn't enjoy the open paint in the 90's like he does now. It be way harder to score in the paint. He'd still be great just a little less great

[tontoz]

He couldn't carry 4 Pippen's to the playoffs, whereas MJ nearly made the Finals with just 1 (89')

and the efficiency is due to the beginner format of today's game and all his threes, which don't win

curry has no real rings.. only durant made his teams championship caliber.. he's lucky kyrie wasn't healthy in 15' because then he'd be kyrie's bitch - destroyed 3 years in a row (15-17')

4 Pippens?:roll:

None of his teammates had any chance for an All Star game, let alone an All NBA team. That is why they were 2-7 in the games he missed.

The reason Durant went there is because he got merked by Steph in the WCF.

[Axe]

Jordan won 6 titles as scoring champ, whereas Curry couldn't carry 4 Pippen's to the playoffs
:oldlol:

[3ba11]

Mahmoud Rauf would've taken 10 threes if it was possible to do so in the 90's... Surely with today's high screen roll, he would have... but without it, Mahmoud took 5 at his peak.. that's curry, except curry is far less athletic (rauf was in the dunk contest)

[DoctorP]

46 to 16 is in the battle for the 8 seed is getting killed. I watched the game. It was embarrassing.

Steph only played Memphis twice all year, scoring 85 points in those two games. That isn't a typo.

Who won the 8th seed? Who took over the 4th and clutch to win?

CMon, man. ****ing ridiculous. :lol

SO tontoz.

[Bronbron23]

Curry is done - he'll never make another Finals or have a good run - his brief flirtation with elite winning was due to a brief strategy advantage on the league - that's how he won a bunch of games with somewhat weak help in 15' and 16'

but that strategy advantage is long over.

the league caught up to his 3-point contest - now every team can replicate what the Warriors did.. That's why they sucked this year despite Curry having at least 4 rookie Pippen's on his team - couldn't even make the playoffs with 4 rookie Pippen's..

but you curry fans keep hoping and wishing upon a star that the glory days return - they won't

I thought this after kd left but now I'm not as sure. More and more teams are playing a ball dominant style with their star player and its an inferior style compared to systems that move more on and off ball. If klay is fully back and warriors pick up another star like beal they'll definitely contend

[3ba11]

4 Pippens?:roll:

None of his teammates had any chance for an All Star game, let alone an All NBA team. That is why they were 2-7 in the games he missed.

The reason Durant went there is because he got merked by Steph in the WCF.


89' Pippen'........ 14/6... 14.9 PER
88' Pippen'.......... 8/4... 12.9 PER

21' Wiggins'...... 19/5... 15.0 PER
21' Oubre'......... 15/6... 13.3 PER
21' Dray'............. 7/9... 13.3 PER
21' Wiseman..... 12/6... 13.1 PER


^^^ Jordan nearly made the Finals with sophomore Pippen, while Curry was lottery with 4 Pippen's

And again, Jordan won 6 titles as scoring champ, whereas Curry couldn't carry 4 Pippen's to the playoffs

[j3lademaster]

Sure, draymond green looked like a role player after that year. Idk why as well but i guess he's more concerned with double-doubles nowadays. Anyway, i was kinda expecting curry to elevate his own teammates somehow. You know, like what bran usually did with scrubs tho i guess he ain't that type of player at all. Also, he could have coped or make-up by playing defense if his threes aren't hitting since i believe it'd be a big help for his team. Without klay, they won't get to the finals but at least a playoff spot is likely if that became the case.Golden St was 5th in def rating this season.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Compare that to being bottom 5 last season. Only major move was swapping Russell for Wiggins

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

And I'm not trying to push that Steph is this all-world 2011 Dwight Howard defensive anchor. If you watch the games, he isn't. I think it's 2 points:

1) obviously an entire defense has to pay attention to where Steph is at all times and make the effort to chase him around screens

2) they play tentatively on offense because you don't want to create opportunities for 'easy' transition 3's

Either way he ends up impacting their defense a lot as well. Essentially 1 guy is the difference between 15-50 w/l to 39-33. Pretty big difference


You know, like what bran usually did with scrubs tho i guess he ain't that type of player at all.

Yeah, prime Lebron is better. You won't hear me argue that.


Without klay, they won't get to the finals but at least a playoff spot is likely if that became the case.

Agreed. Steph needs more than just Klay to make a run at the finals. Teams at the top are too loaded. If Green can return to 2016 form we have a conversation, but hopefully they get some nice development out of Wiseman.

[j3lademaster]

89' Pippen'..... 14/6... 14.9 PER
88' Pippen'....... 8/4... 12.9 PER

21' Wiggins'...... 19/5... 15.0 PER
21' Oubre'......... 15/6... 13.3 PER
21' Dray'............. 7/9... 13.3 PER
21' Wiseman..... 12/6... 13.1 PER


^^^ Jordan nearly made the Finals with sophomore Pippen, while Curry was lottery with 4 Pippen'sJordan is better than Curry.

[tontoz]

Who won the 8th seed? Who took over the 4th and clutch to win?

CMon, man. ****ing ridiculous. :lol

SO tontoz.

GS won the 8 seed after the regular season. If it wasn't for the play in games Memphis would have been out.

Let's not forget that in between those two games Steph dropped 37 on the Lakers. Only a desperation 3 from LeBron prevented GS from moving up to 7.

In his last 3 games Steph dropped a total of 122 points.

[j3lademaster]

He's definitely not just a 3 point shooter but the 3 point aspect is pretty significant.

And curry wouldn't enjoy the open paint in the 90's like he does now. It be way harder to score in the paint. He'd still be great just a little less greatFair enough.

[DoctorP]

GS won the 8 seed after the regular season. If it wasn't for the play in games Memphis would have been out.

Let's not forget that in between those two games Steph dropped 37 on the Lakers. Only a desperation 3 from LeBron prevented GS from moving up to 7.

In his last 3 games Steph dropped a total of 122 points.

so what? this is Jordan 1-9 shit. Didn't matter.

Got outclassed when it counted by a younger, hungrier wolf.

Steph failed this year. No excuses.

Sorry Steph.

[DoctorP]

If Steph went out like Durant id have given it to him over Ja and simply chalk it up to fatigue but Steph was a non-factor late in that game.

[hold this L]

obviously, if you disagree with me youre a box score watcher and your opinion means nothing to me.

Ja killed Steph
https://media.giphy.com/media/10JhviFuU2gWD6/giphy.gif

You're the one that was box watching if you thought that Ja was the best player. Curry was the best player in both playin games and the Grizz game before the playin. Difference was that he was playing with a team that was 2-7 without him during the season and it showed. If Warriors get 2 quality vets and Klay is back to normal, you will see what happens next season. The previous season they were the worst team in the league. 30th out of 30th.

[DoctorP]

https://media.giphy.com/media/10JhviFuU2gWD6/giphy.gif

You're the one that was box watching if you thought that Ja was the best player. Curry was the best player in both playin games and the Grizz game before the playin. Difference was that he was playing with a team that was 2-7 without him during the season and it showed. If Warriors get 2 quality vets and Klay is back to normal, you will see what happens next season.

excuses are a dime a dozen baby boy.

[j3lademaster]

Do you people not realize DoctorP is trolling?

[hold this L]

If Steph went out like Durant id have given it to him over Ja and simply chalk it up to fatigue but Steph was a non-factor late in that game.

That's even worse. So you want Steph to go 0/6 at the end of the game and then you'd say he outplayed Ja? :lol

[tontoz]

so what? this is Jordan 1-9 shit. Didn't matter.

Got outclassed when it counted by a younger, hungrier wolf.

Steph failed this year. No excuses.

Sorry Steph.


That "hungry wolf" got punk'd 46-16. :oldlol:

It doesn't get much worse than that. Props to Ja for redeeming himself but that was a beat down.

I also think Steph ran out of gas at the end of the last game after playing huge minutes 3 games in a row.

Steph won a scoring title with a TS over 65%. Only one other player in history has done that. Steph has done it twice.

They went 2-7 without Steph, 37-26 with him. Hardly a failure especially in the West.

[hold this L]

excuses are a dime a dozen baby boy.

Watchu you mean excuses? Warriors are the worst team in the league last season and the season Steph got injured when he doesn't play. That's reality. Same as him being the clear best player in all 3 of the last games he played.

[tontoz]

For the record Steph scored 11 points in the 4th of the Memphis play in game. That is a lot of points for a guy who "disappeared".

[DoctorP]

Watchu you mean excuses? Warriors are the worst team in the league last season and the season Steph got injured when he doesn't play. That's reality. Same as him being the clear best player in all 3 of the last games he played.

he lost, to the grizzlies. he was winning but he choked and lost. we all saw it.

it is what it is.

[DoctorP]

For the record Steph scored 11 points in the 4th of the Memphis play in game. That is a lot of points for a guy who "disappeared".

not bad at all. how many did Morant have in the same span?

[tontoz]

not bad at all. how many did Morant have in the same span?


Morant had 11 in the 4th also.

Don't get me wrong I like Ja but he needs to work on his jumper. GS was daring him to shoot in both games. In the 2nd game he was 5-10 from 3 which was an anomaly. He shot 30% from 3 for the season.

[DoctorP]

Morant had 11 in the 4th also.

Don't get me wrong I like Ja but he needs to work on his jumper. GS was daring him to shoot in both games. In the 2nd game he was 5-10 from 3 which was an anomaly. He shot 30% from 3 for the season.

Words are BS. Go to the tape:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJa7oO8_Xag


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11v3fV2lHZ8

GAME OVER.

Steph SLAYED.

[tontoz]

Lol @ highlights. I saw the games.

It is almost impossible to outscore a good player by 30, especially when the other player is left open all game, but Steph did it

[Axe]

He may have tried his best to become the best man in those games but unfortunately it did not result to wins. Well, you need to let your teammates contribute more if you are to win that scrimmage to retain your position in the playoffs, especially in the more stacked conference. Like what i said earlier, 'elevate' them somehow.

[Axe]

Golden St was 5th in def rating this season.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Compare that to being bottom 5 last season. Only major move was swapping Russell for Wiggins

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

And I'm not trying to push that Steph is this all-world 2011 Dwight Howard defensive anchor. If you watch the games, he isn't. I think it's 2 points:

1) obviously an entire defense has to pay attention to where Steph is at all times and make the effort to chase him around screens

2) they play tentatively on offense because you don't want to create opportunities for 'easy' transition 3's

Either way he ends up impacting their defense a lot as well. Essentially 1 guy is the difference between 15-50 w/l to 39-33. Pretty big difference



Yeah, prime Lebron is better. You won't hear me argue that.



Agreed. Steph needs more than just Klay to make a run at the finals. Teams at the top are too loaded. If Green can return to 2016 form we have a conversation, but hopefully they get some nice development out of Wiseman.
That's team effort. What i was trying to say is consistent individual defensive impact in case he's shooting nuts, to some extent like what draymond green tries to contribute for the team. And i only mentioned they won't make the finals these days because they aren't the same dynasty anymore that they were once was during their finals runs.

[tontoz]

He may have tried his best to become the best man in those games but unfortunately it did not result to wins. Well, you need to let your teammates contribute more if you are to win that scrimmage to retain your position in the playoffs, especially in the more stacked conference. Like what i said earlier, 'elevate' them somehow.

They were 37-26 with Steph in the lineup. Let's not forget they lost two starters with over a month left in the season. They were also the worst team in the league the previous year

I would call that elevating his team

[Axe]

They were 37-26 with Steph in the lineup. Let's not forget they lost two starters with over a month left in the season. They were also the worst team in the league the previous year

I would call that elevating his team
Sure but too bad the losers bracket tournament had to be there and they screwed up their chances of defending their seed by losing b2b games.

[DoctorP]

They were 37-26 with Steph in the lineup. Let's not forget they lost two starters with over a month left in the season. They were also the worst team in the league the previous year

I would call that elevating his team

He did fine. But Steph is barely cracking top 5 in my book, if at all. He's not a closer and has much to prove.

[Spurs m8]

LeBron James is the best basketball player you personally have ever watched live on TV or the internet by a comfortable margin. I know that's painful to accept but it's true.

I mean it's not even close how much better he is than any other player you have ever watched, actually, lol.

Curry would be the respectable but still distant 2nd.

You aren't a plethora of NBA knowledge, experience or wisdom. Stop posting.

You are an abomination of a basketball 'fan'

If you wanna go and stan a manufactured pvssy, go for it....just shows you respect the weak (because you are weak too) you are low iq and also have little integrity.

Don't ever speak to me again, you fvcking peasant

[3ba11]

Sure but too bad the losers bracket tournament had to be there and they screwed up their chances of defending their seed by losing b2b games.


Man you guys are dreaming... IT'S OVER... the strategy edge they had was gone - you could give Steph/Klay the exact same team they had in 2016 and they'd struggle to win 55 games... the luster is gone and was exposed, along with the strategy edge... the glory days are gone - accept it now so you won't be disappointed... don't say 3ball didn't warn you

[Bronbron23]

Man you guys are dreaming... IT'S OVER... the strategy edge they had was gone - you could give Steph/Klay the exact same team they had in 2016 and they'd struggle to win 55 games... the luster is gone and was exposed, along with the strategy edge... the glory days are gone - accept it now so you won't be disappointed... don't say 3ball didn't warn you

Nah man if they their 2016 team they're still contending. With all the injuries they may have even won this year. That 2016 was very deep. Warriors still play smarter than everyone else. Utah jazz are the only team that's close. Everyone else plays the same.

In a 72 game season they just got 39 wins with a pretty bad team. If it was an 82 game season they'd have won at least 45 games. You telling me with klay, barns, iggy, Livingston and a the other supporting cast they don't win at least another 10 games?

If klay is healthy Warriors are gonna win at least 55 games this year.

[ShawkFactory]

Man you guys are dreaming... IT'S OVER... the strategy edge they had was gone - you could give Steph/Klay the exact same team they had in 2016 and they'd struggle to win 55 games... the luster is gone and was exposed, along with the strategy edge... the glory days are gone - accept it now so you won't be disappointed... don't say 3ball didn't warn you

When Steph was in last year they went 37-26, which is 49 wins over 82. This is also while dealing with injuries to literally every other significant starter.

You don't think getting Klay back, and then adding Draymond back in his prime, plus getting Iggy and Bogut...they win more than 55? Interesting take. Fortunately for you you'll never be proven wrong. Very brave of you.

I guess if the Warriors stay healthy and win 55 next year that'll be enough.