Is the Celtics 2008 ring "organic"?

[StrongLurk]

Allen and KG are traded to Boston and they became instant favorites to win the title (only superteam in the league). The Timberwolves/Supersonics basically colluded with the Celtics to make the trade happen. They win in 2008 and probably would've won another ring in 2009 if not for KG getting injured.

[3ba11]

no

[tontoz]

Of course not.

[StrongLurk]

no

Well...wouldn't the ring be "organic" for Paul Pierce and Rondo? He stayed with the Celtics the whole time, never asked for help, but won immediately when he got some help.

So is it organic for Pierce and Rondo but not organic for Ray/KG even though they were traded?

[Im Still Ballin]

100% grain-fed; a tastier, fatter cut.

[j3lademaster]

A lot of high fructose corn syrup in those rings. I'm surprised Ray, KG, and PP didn't get diabetes just wearing them.

[StrongLurk]

A lot of high fructose corn syrup in those rings. I'm surprised Ray, KG, and PP didn't get diabetes just wearing them.

Is it the fault of Paul Pierce or Rondo that the Celtics traded for better players? They won rings with the teams that drafted them and got help via trades made by the front office...if that's not an organic ring for them then no ring is organic.

[Smoke117]

Is it the fault of Paul Pierce or Rondo that the Celtics traded for better players? They won rings with the teams that drafted them and got help via trades made by the front office...if that's not an organic ring for them then no ring is organic.

Rondo was just a role player in 2008 so who cares either way for him. While KG wanted to be traded, Ray Allen didn't. He was actually surprised when he found out he was traded so I'd say it's pretty organic for him.

[StrongLurk]

Rondo was just a role player in 2008 so who cares either way for him. While KG wanted to be traded, Ray Allen didn't. He was actually surprised when he found out he was traded so I'd say it's pretty organic for him.

Okay so organic ring for the 2008 Celtics? Is that what you are saying?

[Smoke117]

Okay so organic ring for the 2008 Celtics? Is that what you are saying?

Yeah. Even KG isn't like Anthony Davis where he demanded to go to a specific team. Garnett didn't okay a trade to Celtics till after they got Ray Allen. He didn't want to go initially before that.

[RRR3]

Yes it’s always organic unless LeBron wins.

[StrongLurk]

Yes it’s always organic unless LeBron wins.

After seeing all of the insane mental gymnastics and contradictions from Lebron haters...your post is 100% truth.

[Airupthere]

Yes it’s always organic unless LeBron wins.

No its not. Stop being so dramatic.

That celtics ring was inorganic. However, the difference is that they were all past prime by that point. Nothing compares to the 2011 MIA collusion. KD joining gsw is even worse.

[deathawaitu]

It’s more “organic” if compared to any of Lebron’S team

[StrongLurk]

No its not. Stop being so dramatic.

That celtics ring was inorganic. However, the difference is that they were all past prime by that point. Nothing compares to the 2011 MIA collusion. KD joining gsw is even worse.

Is it inorganic for ALL the Celtics players in that team? How is it not organic for Paul Pierce or Rondo?

[tontoz]

One star came from Seattle, another from Minnesota. When two of your big 3 come from other teams it isn't the same as an organic ring.

Having said that all 3 stars were 30+. Not as bad as free agent stars in their 20s colluding.

[StrongLurk]

One star came from Seattle, another from Minnesota. When two of your big 3 come from other teams it isn't the same as an organic ring.

Having said that all 3 stars were 30+. Not as bad as free agent stars in their 20s colluding.

So Paul Pierce was just screwed in your opinion? He was LOYAL to the Celtics when they were trash for years and then when they finally get him help, his ring is not organic all of a sudden?

That logic doesn't make sense.

[Thenameless]

Organic, fabricated....it doesn't matter. Just win.

[ShawkFactory]

No its not. Stop being so dramatic.

That celtics ring was inorganic. However, the difference is that they were all past prime by that point. Nothing compares to the 2011 MIA collusion. KD joining gsw is even worse.

So then yes, something does compare the 2011 MIA

[StrongLurk]

So then yes, something does compare the 2011 MIA

Don't try to use logic with a Lebron hater. They can't be reasoned with.

[tontoz]

So Paul Pierce was just screwed in your opinion? He was LOYAL to the Celtics when they were trash for years and then when they finally get him help, his ring is not organic all of a sudden?

That logic doesn't make sense.


He was on a bad team and won a ring. How is that getting screwed?

Also there is only one guy who really had a choice here and that is KG. Pretty sure he had a no trade clause and could have refused the trade. Pierce and Ray didn't have a choice.

As I recall it took a lot of pursuading to get KG to agree to the trade. Apparently tryron Lue was a key figure who pursuaded KG to go through with it

[Airupthere]

Is it inorganic for ALL the Celtics players in that team? How is it not organic for Paul Pierce or Rondo?

Why is this even a question? Pierce needed two big piecez in allen and kg. The 3 big pieces did not play together for some time. They won because they got together.

[StrongLurk]

He was on a bad team and won a ring. How is that getting screwed?

Also there is only one guy who really had a choice here and that is KG. Pretty sure he had a no trade clause and could have refused the trade. Pierce and Ray didn't have a choice.

As I recall it took a lot of pursuading to get KG to agree to the trade. Apparently tryron Lue was a key figure who pursuaded KG to go through with it

If you are of the opinion that his ring was not organic, then you are essentially saying it's worthless...which is basically implying that Paul Pierce was in a lose/lose situation that year.

[MadDog]

The "organic" stuff is irrelevant. They were stacked just like in 2010. KG/Pierce/Allen/Rondo/Tony Allen/Sheed - ATG team littered with HOFers. And Kobe took em out with Pau lol.

[StrongLurk]

Why is this even a question? Pierce needed two big piecez in allen and kg. The 3 big pieces did not play together for some time. They won because they got together.

Can you even define what an "organic" ring is?

[Airupthere]

So then yes, something does compare the 2011 MIA

I meant nothing compares to what they did back in 2011. Unprecedented. All three in their primes, all from the same conf, joining together to make a team. Remember all the dancing, theatrics and chest pounding, not 7 speech? Remember the slogan “yes.we.did.” They were shoving it in front of everyones faces that they did the unthinkable. That is until kd decided to join gsw, which was the worst coward move I have seen. You should actually thank kd for 1upping lebron on this one.

[tontoz]

If you are of the opinion that his ring was not organic, then you are essentially saying it's worthless...which is basically implying that Paul Pierce was in a lose/lose situation that year.


I never said any ring is worthless. However I don't see the Celtics as the same as the Heatles.

KG, Ray and Pierce werent competing with each other in the playoffs.

They weren't top their stars. Pierce and Ray didn't make All NBA the prior two years. KG only made the 3rd team.

All of them were 30+.

These guys were aging, 2nd tier stars that weren't having team success.

Not quite the same as a first tier star in his 20s leaving a 60 win team to join his primary rivals

[Airupthere]

I never said any ring is worthless. However I don't see the Celtics as the same as the Heatles.

KG, Ray and Pierce werent competing with each other in the playoffs.

They weren't top their stars. Pierce and Ray didn't make All NBA the prior two years. KG only made the 3rd team.

All of them were 30+.

These guys were aging, 2nd tier stars that weren't having team success.

Not quite the same as a first tier star in his 20s leaving a 60 win team to join his primary rivals

This exactly

[Axe]

Organic or not, what's interesting about that ring is that the player who won the finals mvp was drafted by the championship team he played for.

[Airupthere]

Organic or not, what's interesting about that ring is that the player who won the finals mvp was drafted by the championship team he played for.

He was closest to his prime. And the youngest I believe.

[GrayGoat]

100% organic. They were fed the best grass fed massaged Kobe beef ;)

[Axe]

The "organic" stuff is irrelevant. They were stacked just like in 2010. KG/Pierce/Allen/Rondo/Tony Allen/Sheed - ATG team littered with HOFers. And Kobe took em out with Pau lol.
But kobe just had pau gasol during that time and also lamar odom too.

[ScottieQuitting]

Who formed the team? GM? Was it primarily the team that drafted them?

Or free agents joining a pre existing winner, or collusion of other free agents or using a similar sports agency to manipulate a trade?

If it was the former, organic, it’s legit.

If the latter, big fat meaningless high fructose ass fugazy chip

[MadDog]

But kobe just had pau gasol during that time and also lamar odom too.

Odom ain't a HOFer :confusedshrug: Good player and all, but the Celtics were stacked in comparison.

[GrayGoat]

Odom ain't a HOFer :confusedshrug: Good player and all, but the Celtics were stacked in comparison.

Neither is pj brown. Yet he shit on the Lakers

[Axe]

Odom ain't a HOFer :confusedshrug: Good player and all, but the Celtics were stacked in comparison.
I didn't say he was but he's not helpless at all lmao. And then he had veteran co-captain derek fisher back in his team as well plus metta world peace in his last finals run too.

[MadDog]

I didn't say he was but he's not helpless at all lmao. And then he had veteran co-captain derek fisher back in his team as well plus metta world peace in his last finals run too.

And I didn't say he was helpless. Fisher and Odom arent HOFers though. Again, the Celtics had 5 of them playing. Bare minimum. Kobe's 2010 ring was impressive as f*ck.

[And1AllDay]

Rondo was just a role player in 2008 so who cares either way for him. While KG wanted to be traded, Ray Allen didn't. He was actually surprised when he found out he was traded so I'd say it's pretty organic for him.

in the recent podcast with kg, barnes and stephen jackson kg himself said he was trying to go to the lakers to play with kobe becos they had a similar vibe but he called up kobe a couple of times and his dumbass never picked up the call so it didnt work out.


if kobe gets kg in 2008 that is 6 rings for kobe, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 modern day 4peat

[Axe]

And I didn't say he was helpless. Fisher and Odom arent HOFers though. Again, the Celtics had 5 of them playing. Bare minimum. Kobe's 2010 ring was impressive as f*ck.
Yet the lakers had the zen master phil jackson too while doc rivers, who made the 08 celtics very successful in the regular season, was consistently dubbed as a choke-artist mastermind in the playoffs.

[clipps]

2008 Celtics ring gave birth to the most overrated head coach of all time.

[MadDog]

Yet the lakers had the zen master phil jackson too while doc rivers, who made the 08 celtics very successful in the regular season, was consistently dubbed as a choke-artist mastermind in the playoffs.

This dude said Phil Jackson hahahaha. He aint out there shooting the ball, or playing defense. :oldlol: Most of his x&o's came from Tex Winter anyway. The Celtics roster was loaded top to bottom, and on paper, they should have won that series. Kobe had different plans though.

[Axe]

This fool said Phil Jackson lmao. He aint out there shooting the ball or playing defense. :oldlol: Most of his X&O's came from Tex Winter anyway. The Celtics roster was loaded top to bottom, and on paper, should have won that finals. Kobe had different plans though.
That's because in '10, like what's been said earlier, kendrick perkins went down with his knee injury which left the Cs more vulnerable in defense and rebounding. If that didn't happen tho, they would have finished them again in six games. Now you see how instrumental he is to the team and i only mentioned the zen master because he's had plenty of experience in the finals with his teams unlike doc rivers, duh.

[3ba11]

Well...wouldn't the ring be "organic" for Paul Pierce and Rondo? He stayed with the Celtics the whole time, never asked for help, but won immediately when he got some help.

So is it organic for Pierce and Rondo but not organic for Ray/KG even though they were traded?


It was an organic ring by definition, but not the spirit of organic.

[StrongLurk]

It's interesting how a lot of Lebron haters are claiming the 2008 Celtic ring is inorganic due to being a superteam...yet they've also said Lebron was the one who started the superteam trend and "ruined" the NBA.

Yet it was Lebron/the Cavs who were on top of the East in 2007...seems like he was the first victim of the superteam trend during his time in the NBA and had to even the playing field himself since the Cavs organization was a bottom 5-8 org in the league.

[MadDog]

That's because in '10, like what's said earlier, kendrick perkins went down with his knee injury which left the Cs more vulnerable in defense and rebounding. If that didn't happen tho, they would have finished them again in six games. Now you see how instrumental he is to the team and i only mentioned the zen master because he's had plenty of experience in the finals with his teams unlike doc rivers, duh.

If Andrew Bynum played in 08, the Lakers wins that finals. Would've and could've is a lame argument. Seriously Kendrick Perkins? Lol damn, what were the Celtics gonna do with KG/Pierce/Rondo/Allen/Tony Allen/Sheed? :oldlol: They don't get an excuse. Kobe and Pau beat them straight up.

[DoctorP]

it's organic like McDonalds is organic.

[Axe]

If Andrew Bynum played in 08, the Lakers wins that finals. Would've and could've is a lame argument. Seriously Kendrick Perkins? Lol damn, what were the Celtics gonna do with KG/Pierce/Rondo/Allen/Tony Allen/Sheed? :oldlol: They don't get an excuse. Kobe and Pau beat them straight up.
The Cs did not also have hca in 2010 but still took a 3-2 series lead against their long-time rivals before he went down in game six. Don't be so dumb. And bynum? Wow i guess that makes both teams more close to even, i guess.

[MadDog]

The Cs did not also have hca in 2010 but still took a 3-2 series lead against their long-time rivals before he went down in game six. Don't be so dumb.

So now the excuse is HCA? You're an absolute retard.

[Airupthere]

It's interesting how a lot of Lebron haters are claiming the 2008 Celtic ring is inorganic due to being a superteam...yet they've also said Lebron was the one who started the superteam trend and "ruined" the NBA.

Yet it was Lebron/the Cavs who were on top of the East in 2007...seems like he was the first victim of the superteam trend during his time in the NBA and had to even the playing field himself since the Cavs organization was a bottom 5-8 org in the league.

Organic/inorganic is not tantamount to a superteam per se. Personally I dont consider that celtics team a superteam. The big 3 pieces were all 30+ years old. The Miami team is the first crazy clown show we have seen. They took that superteaming to another level.

[StrongLurk]

Organic/inorganic is not tantamount to a superteam per se. Personally I dont consider that celtics team a superteam. The big 3 pieces were all 30+ years old. The Miami team is the first crazy clown show we have seen. They took that superteaming to another level.

There has been plenty of superteams throughout NBA history. Hell, the NBA has actually MOSTLY been superteams.

The Celtics were year one favorites in 08 due to becoming a superteam through NON-DRAFT moves...so inorganic ring yes?

[Axe]

So now the excuse is HCA? You're an absolute retard.
Open your eyes, you goddamn buffoon. The lakers had the hca that year but found themselves down 2 to 3 against them after game five and only won the finals when perkins went missing for game seven.

[Airupthere]

There has been plenty of superteams throughout NBA history. Hell, the NBA has actually MOSTLY been superteams.

The Celtics were year one favorites in 08 due to becoming a superteam through NON-DRAFT moves...so inorganic ring yes?

I already said the celtics ring was inorganic. The Miami team was both inorganic and a 3-prime player superteam. The celtics was inorganic and a superteam with 3 past prime key players. The Miami show, if you recall that, was crazy. The audacity of the "Yes.we.did." slogan meant they did something unthinkable and they knew it.

[StrongLurk]

I already said the celtics ring was inorganic. The Miami team was both inorganic and a 3-prime player superteam. The celtics was inorganic and a superteam with 3 past prime key players. The Miami show, if you recall that, was crazy. The audacity of the "Yes.we.did." slogan meant they did something unthinkable and they knew it.

Right, but Wade, Lebron and Bosh were purely organic players that were essentially FORCED to team up due to the Celtics inorganic superteam ways. Wade/Lebron were both on top of the East until the Celtics became a superteam. Wade/Lebron did not start that trend.

[Airupthere]

Right, but Wade, Lebron and Bosh were purely organic players that were essentially FORCED to team up due to the Celtics inorganic superteam ways. Wade/Lebron were both on top of the East until the Celtics became a superteam. Wade/Lebron did not start that trend.

Does that justify what they did? They took it to another level and created a huge imbalance in the east. What is the goal here? To vindicate lebron?

[MadDog]

Open your eyes, you goddamn buffoon. The lakers had the hca that year but found themselves down 2 to 3 against them after game five and only won the finals when perkins went missing for game seven.

None of that matters you dumb ****. Again, If you watched that season, you would know A) Boston wasn't healthy in the regular-season and B) when healthy, turned into the best playoff defense. On paper they were clearly superior. Homecourt, Kendrick Perkins, bad gatorade, you watching with one eye. Whatever. Boston was ousted by an inferior Laker team. Period.

[StrongLurk]

Does that justify what they did? They took it to another level and created a huge imbalance in the east. What is the goal here? To vindicate lebron?

To help determine the facts/historical record and the "value" of rings related to individual players.

Also to critically examine the logic of more active posters on ISH.

[Axe]

None of that matters you dumb ****. Again, If you watched that season, you would know A) Boston wasn't healthy in the regular-season and B) when healthy, turned into the best playoff defense. On paper they were clearly superior. Homecourt, Kendrick Perkins, bad gatorade, you watching with one eye. Whatever. Boston was ousted by an inferior Laker team. Period.
Lol they're not inferior especially if they're the defending champions and made the finals thrice in a row back then, you dipshit.

[MadDog]

Lol they're not inferior especially if they're the defending champions and made the finals thrice in a row back then, you dipshit.

Uhhh less HOFers makes them an underdog. :oldlol: I'm sorry you were dropped on your head.

[Airupthere]

To help determine the facts/historical record and the "value" of rings related to individual players.

Also to critically examine the logic of more active posters on ISH.

Lebron has much to gain from the 2 rings he won with a 3prime player superteam (that also created a vacuum in the east, clearing the path to the finals). The celtics big 3, meh. They are recognized as champions and hall of famers but the gravity of that ring is not as much. So for Lebron's rings with the MIA superteam, I don't know how else you want people to view him? As victim of the celtics big 3 and hence his 2 MIA rings should be considered organic, earned rings?

[Axe]

Uhhh less HOFers makes them an underdog. :oldlol: I'm sorry you were dropped on your head.
Again, the Cs weren't favorites in those two years against the dynasty lakers composed of finals veterans kobe bryant, derek fisher and their head coach phil jackson.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi's 2014 was more organic then KG 2008 because kawhi was drafted there and had better finals production (GmSc).

[Naero]

The definition of "organic" isn't that complex. This is the connotation used in a sports context.

5. (formal) happening in a slow and natural way, rather than suddenly

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/organic

It simply means that the team gradually improves over time, typically with the same nucleus of players, rather than jumping into title contention by transforming the roster. Any team that vaults into title contention overnight—be it with trades, free-agent signing, or even instant-impact draft picks—is considered inorganic, because they bought more than built that status.

Organic teams trade for and sign players all the time; it's just a question of how much those acquisitions move the needle and how suddenly. Considering the Celtics went from the lottery to champions with their Big Three coup, it's hard to argue they're organic.

Not that it should matter; it's just narrative-oriented pablum, and it's too rare in this era of player empowerment anyway. But too many are blurring the definition.

[Axe]

Kawhi's 2014 was more organic then KG 2008 because kawhi was drafted there and had better finals production (GmSc).
Kawhit wasn't drafted by the spurs tho.

[bison]

Yup pretty organic in the sense of making trades to improve your team. Kg and ray were declining at this point so they were supplemental acquisitions to a team that was organically built. Compare to lebron, Bosh and wade all in their primes and colluding through free agency to win lebron his two fake rings

[3ba11]

Kawhi's 2014 was more organic then KG 2008 because kawhi was drafted there and had better finals production (GmSc).


I agree with this... There's degrees of organic and the 08' Celtics are at the very bottom of organic, but still technically organic.

The problem is that the Big 3 core didn't build favorite status over many years like organic teams typically do.. That core had the life cycle of a super-team by getting favorite status in Year 1 (easiest path possible)

[Axe]

I agree with this... There's degrees of organic and the 08' Celtics are at the very bottom of organic, but still technically organic.

The problem is that the Big 3 core didn't build favorite status over many years like organic teams typically do.. That core had the life cycle of a super-team by getting favorite status in Year 1 (easiest path possible)
2008 celtics with their massive turnaround weren't title favorites over the lakers that year despite winning more than sixty five games in the rs so this narrative is dumb if you're counting them as one.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Allen and KG are traded to Boston and they became instant favorites to win the title (only superteam in the league). The Timberwolves/Supersonics basically colluded with the Celtics to make the trade happen. They win in 2008 and probably would've won another ring in 2009 if not for KG getting injured.
So how do you get a trade done without colluding? How does one team get a player from another team for players on their own team without talking to that team? Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?

[StrongLurk]

So how do you get a trade done without colluding? How does one team get a player from another team for players on their own team without talking to that team? Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?

Since you can't tell, this was a troll thread making fun of the dumbest posters on ish. As you can see, we have a few Lebron haters getting really confused in this thread.

[8Ball]

As organic as any of Jordan's rings.

Irrelevant question since organic has no basketball use.

[8Ball]

So how do you get a trade done without colluding? How does one team get a player from another team for players on their own team without talking to that team? Do you have any idea how stupid you sound?

StrongLurk was just using a 3ball talking point and swapped some names out.

[tontoz]

Since you can't tell, this was a troll thread making fun of the dumbest posters on ish. As you can see, we have a few Lebron haters getting really confused in this thread.

The problem is that Lebron's Heatles aren't really comparable to Boston's big 3. Boston's big 3 were aging, 2nd tier stars that weren't having team success.

Lebron and Wade were both first team All NBA in 2009-10 before Lebron went to Miami. They were literally the two best players in the conference. Lebron was 26, Wade 29. Lebron had back to back 60 win seasons with the Cavs and Wade already had a ring.

[Gudo]

Lol, bronstans want the 2011 heat to be misremembered as a colluded superteam by pointing to the attention to others. :oldlol:

[StrongLurk]

The problem is that Lebron's Heatles aren't really comparable to Boston's big 3. Boston's big 3 were aging, 2nd tier stars that weren't having team success.

Lebron and Wade were both first team All NBA in 2009-10 before Lebron went to Miami. They were literally the two best players in the conference. Lebron was 26, Wade 29. Lebron had back to back 60 win seasons with the Cavs and Wade already had a ring.

Lebron had to make that move. The Cavs were one of the worst orgs in the league, Cleveland is not a free agent destination, and Lebron carried his team more than any player in the league. He put in seven years and the biggest reason why he left was due to the Celtics forming a superteam.

It wasn't the same as players FORCING themselves off teams (see Kawhi, Harden, etc.) or players leaving already stacked teams to go to even more stacked teams (see KD).

It's obvious Lebron would've stayed in Cleveland longer if they could have gotten him a co-star. It's also obvious if Lebron was drafted to a team that already had a superteam (see Magic, Kobe, Duncan) then he would've stayed longer.

[Gudo]

Lebron had to make that move. The Cavs were one of the worst orgs in the league, Cleveland is not a free agent destination, and Lebron carried his team more than any player in the league. He put in seven years and the biggest reason why he left was due to the Celtics forming a superteam.

It wasn't the same as players FORCING themselves off teams (see Kawhi, Harden, etc.) or players leaving already stacked teams to go to even more stacked teams (see KD).

It's obvious Lebron would've stayed in Cleveland longer if they could have gotten him a co-star. It's also obvious if Lebron was drafted to a team that already had a superteam (see Magic, Kobe, Duncan) then he would've stayed longer.

I love the "victim" and "luck" stories, lol.

[tontoz]

Lebron had to make that move. The Cavs were one of the worst orgs in the league, Cleveland is not a free agent destination, and Lebron carried his team more than any player in the league. He put in seven years and the biggest reason why he left was due to the Celtics forming a superteam.

It wasn't the same as players FORCING themselves off teams (see Kawhi, Harden, etc.) or players leaving already stacked teams to go to even more stacked teams (see KD).

It's obvious Lebron would've stayed in Cleveland longer if they could have gotten him a co-star. It's also obvious if Lebron was drafted to a team that already had a superteam (see Magic, Kobe, Duncan) then he would've stayed longer.

Lebron was only 26. They had back to back seasons winning 61 and 66 games. Jordan didn't win his first ring until 28. Giannis could have refused to sign an extension and forced a trade last year but he chose not to.

KG is the one who had a really crappy organization. McHale was so bad as a GM he cost them a bunch of draft picks due to an under the table deal with Joe Smith which crippled them for years.

Leaving a 60 win team as a free agent is one thing. Leaving to join the 2nd best player in the conference trying to stack the deck isnt a good look.

[LAL]

Lebron had to make that move. The Cavs were one of the worst orgs in the league, Cleveland is not a free agent destination, and Lebron carried his team more than any player in the league. He put in seven years and the biggest reason why he left was due to the Celtics forming a superteam.

It wasn't the same as players FORCING themselves off teams (see Kawhi, Harden, etc.) or players leaving already stacked teams to go to even more stacked teams (see KD).

It's obvious Lebron would've stayed in Cleveland longer if they could have gotten him a co-star. It's also obvious if Lebron was drafted to a team that already had a superteam (see Magic, Kobe, Duncan) then he would've stayed longer.

:roll:

That was so cute.

[HoopsNY]

Boston had a super-team, period. It was not organic and KG's only ring is severely flawed. It's another reason why he can't touch Tim Duncan.

[tontoz]

Boston had a super-team, period. It was not organic and KG's only ring is severely flawed. It's another reason why he can't touch Tim Duncan.

:oldlol:

Why is it flawed, because he approved a trade?

Super team? Pierce and Allen weren't even All NBA in the two years prior to their title. KG was only 3rd team. All were 30+. That is hardly a super team.

[bizil]

KG-Pierce-Ray were FOR DAMN SURE a Big 3!! Pierce and Allen weren't All NBA the two years prior BECAUSE their teams were struggling. Same with KG only making 3rd team. All three were still in their prime.

So the Celtics, Wolves, and Sonics were ALL REGRESSING! All three stars were in their 30's. And the GM's made the trade! The guys WEREN'T free agents. Have NO PROBLEM at all with the Boston Big 3! Three legends in their 30's coming together via trade to win a chip. What IN THE HELL is wrong with that???

[HoopsNY]

:oldlol:

Why is it flawed, because he approved a trade?

Super team? Pierce and Allen weren't even All NBA in the two years prior to their title. KG was only 3rd team. All were 30+. That is hardly a super team.

You have to judge these players more on their abilities rather than on accolades. For example, Bosh wasn't All-NBA since 2007, but that doesn't mean he wasn't an elite player in 2010, prior to joining forces with Wade and LeBron.

KG put up 22/13/4/2/1 on 48% in 2007.
Ray put up 26/5/4/0/2 on 44% in 2007.

That was actually Ray's career high in scoring. And while it may not have been as bad as Miami's collusion, it certainly wasn't that far off. They were all still in their primes. Pierce was coming off of a 25/6/4/0/1 season.

[bizil]

Yup pretty organic in the sense of making trades to improve your team. Kg and ray were declining at this point so they were supplemental acquisitions to a team that was organically built. Compare to lebron, Bosh and wade all in their primes and colluding through free agency to win lebron his two fake rings

HOW IN THE HELL was Ray declining when he put a CAREER HIGH 26.4 PPG in 2006-2007??? HOW IN THE HELL was KG declining when he led the league in rebounding for the 4th straight season at 12.8 in 2006-2007??? Ray and KG were STILL IN THEIR PRIMES when they hit Boston!! IF THEY WEREN'T IN THEIR PRIME, they wouldn't have won a ring in 2007-2008 with that team! Once KG had that knee injury in 2008-2009, that took him OUTTA his prime. He was still an All Star caliber player for sure after the injury. But NO LONGER in the hunt for the best PF on the planet anymore. KG was the first of the big 3 to fall out of his prime because of that serious injury. It wasn't an MJ or Kareem type deal where they eventually fell outta their prime due to wear and tear in their mid or late 30's. A SERIOUS INJURY took KG outta of his at only 32 or 33 years of age.

[Gudo]

HOW IN THE HELL was Ray declining when he put a CAREER HIGH 26.4 PPG in 2006-2007??? HOW IN THE HELL was KG declining when he led the league in rebounding for the 4th straight season at 12.8 in 2006-2007??? Ray and KG were STILL IN THEIR PRIMES when they hit Boston!! IF THEY WEREN'T IN THEIR PRIME, they wouldn't have won a ring in 2007-2008 with that team! Once KG had that knee injury in 2008-2009, that took him OUTTA his prime. He was still an All Star caliber player for sure. But NO LONGER in the hunt for the best PF on the planet anymore.

Ray never scored more than 24 ppg. And yet as soon as the rules loosened in 2005, he started averaging his career high ppg in back to back years at 31 years old. That was a past peak ray. Not washed up, just not prime.

[tontoz]

You have to judge these players more on their abilities rather than on accolades. For example, Bosh wasn't All-NBA since 2007, but that doesn't mean he wasn't an elite player in 2010, prior to joining forces with Wade and LeBron.

KG put up 22/13/4/2/1 on 48% in 2007.
Ray put up 26/5/4/0/2 on 44% in 2007.

That was actually Ray's career high in scoring. And while it may not have been as bad as Miami's collusion, it certainly wasn't that far off. They were all still in their primes. Pierce was coming off of a 25/6/4/0/1 season.

Yes it was far off. They were All Stars but 2nd tier. They had no chance to win where they were. All 3 of their teams were garbage.

Wolves 32-50
Celtics 24-58
Sonics 31-51

They were a combined 72 games under .500. :roll:

All 3 were 30+. Their only chance to win anything was to team up. None of them ever got close to 60 wins, let alone a ring, prior to teaming up.

[Wally450]

No ring is organic!

[LAL]

Yes it was far off. They were All Stars but 2nd tier. They had no chance to win where they were. All 3 of their teams were garbage.

Wolves 32-50
Celtics 24-58
Sonics 31-51

They were a combined 72 games under .500. :roll:

All 3 were 30+. Their only chance to win anything was to team up. None of them ever got close to 60 wins, let alone a ring, prior to teaming up.

They were a superteam, so were the Heatles obviously.. and KD's Warriors. Pretty simple.

[HoopsNY]

Yes it was far off. They were All Stars but 2nd tier. They had no chance to win where they were. All 3 of their teams were garbage.

Wolves 32-50
Celtics 24-58
Sonics 31-51

They were a combined 72 games under .500. :roll:

All 3 were 30+. Their only chance to win anything was to team up. None of them ever got close to 60 wins, let alone a ring, prior to teaming up.

We're splitting hairs at this point because we don't disagree that Miami's collusion was worse. At the same time, Boston did have a super-team.

Let me ask you this, did LA form a super-team in 2004?

[bizil]

Ray never scored more than 24 ppg. And yet as soon as the rules loosened in 2005, he started averaging his career high ppg in back to back years at 31 years old. That was a past peak ray. Not washed up, just not prime.


WRONG!!! You have prime, peak, and backend prime years for guys who are elite for a long time. WHICH RAY WAS!! Ray AT WORST was in backend prime when he first hit Boston! BACKEND PRIME IS STILL PRIME YEARS!!! If Ray and KG WEREN'T in prime mode, Boston DOESN'T WIN RINGS in 2008! Once KG's prime was over due to the knee injury in 2008-2009, Boston's title hopes were over at that point. And 24 PPG to 26.4 ISN'T a huge jump! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???

[ArbitraryWater]

Well...wouldn't the ring be "organic" for Paul Pierce and Rondo? He stayed with the Celtics the whole time, never asked for help, but won immediately when he got some help.

So is it organic for Pierce and Rondo but not organic for Ray/KG even though they were traded?

Lol wut

[HoopsNY]

WRONG!!! You have prime, peak, and backend prime years for guys who are elite for a long time. WHICH RAY WAS!! Ray AT WORST was in backend prime when he first hit Boston! BACKEND PRIME IS STILL PRIME YEARS!!! If Ray and KG WEREN'T in prime mode, Boston DOESN'T WIN RINGS in 2008! Once KG's prime was over due to the knee injury in 2008-2009, Boston's title hopes were over at that point. And 24 PPG to 26.4 ISN'T a huge jump! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???

This is the first time I've seen you this worked up lol.

[LAL]

We're splitting hairs at this point because we don't disagree that Miami's collusion was worse. At the same time, Boston did have a super-team.

Let me ask you this, did LA form a super-team in 2004?

Kobe & out of shape shaq needed help since 2002, GP was worse than Fisher, his backup. Malone was solid but he was 40. Lakers ended up having the worst roster in the finals when Malone went down. Triangle didn't work on the Pistons and it frustrated Kobe for sure.

[tontoz]

We're splitting hairs at this point because we don't disagree that Miami's collusion was worse. At the same time, Boston did have a super-team.

Let me ask you this, did LA form a super-team in 2004?


I certainly never thought of them as a superteam. Malone was washed up. GP was pretty washed up too. Shaq was still a star but aging quickly. The only star in his prime was Kobe.

[Axe]

We're splitting hairs at this point because we don't disagree that Miami's collusion was worse. At the same time, Boston did have a super-team.

Let me ask you this, did LA form a super-team in 2004?
With karl malone and gp? Yes.

[Axe]

Kobe & out of shape shaq needed help since 2002, GP was worse than Fisher, his backup. Malone was solid but he was 40. Lakers ended up having the worst roster in the finals when Malone went down. Triangle didn't work on the Pistons and it frustrated Kobe for sure.
He was frustrated because he want a more selfish and flashy style of play than the triangle.

[HoopsNY]

Kobe & out of shape shaq needed help since 2002, GP was worse than Fisher, his backup. Malone was solid but he was 40. Lakers ended up having the worst roster in the finals when Malone went down. Triangle didn't work on the Pistons and it frustrated Kobe for sure.


I certainly never thought of them as a superteam. Malone was washed up. GP was pretty washed up too. Shaq was still a star but aging quickly. The only star in his prime was Kobe.

Not sure about this. We have to view it based on the reaction at the time of the formation, and not merely after the season had ended. Shaq may have been out of shape, but he was out of shape in 2002 and 2003, too. He was coming off of a playoffs where he put up 27/14/4/3/1.

Malone was 21/8/5/2/1 on 46%.
GP was 20/4/8/2/0 on 45%

None of those numbers to me are washed. 2010 Shaq was "washed". 2008 GP was washed. None of the guys in 2004 were washed. They were still very much solid players.

All of these teams were super-teams, but each one became more pronounced than its predecessor (Lakers '04 < Celtics '08 < '11 Heat < '17 Warriors), if that makes sense.

[LAL]

Not sure about this. We have to view it based on the reaction at the time of the formation, and not merely after the season had ended. Shaq may have been out of shape, but he was out of shape in 2002 and 2003, too. He was coming off of a playoffs where he put up 27/14/4/3/1.

Malone was 21/8/5/2/1 on 46%.
GP was 20/4/8/2/0 on 45%

None of those numbers to me are washed. 2010 Shaq was "washed". 2008 GP was washed. None of the guys in 2004 were washed. They were still very much solid players.

All of these teams were super-teams, but each one became more pronounced than its predecessor (Lakers '04 < Celtics '08 < '11 Heat < '17 Warriors), if that makes sense.

I know gp still putting up decent numbers on a terrible sonics team. So Miami Heat in 06 had a superteam? SInce we can only call them washed in 08 & '10. Gp was washed a long time ago, empty stats. Malone was decent but got injured and was 40.. lazy Shaq couldn't move on D. That 04 Team was terrible imo. Mostly hoping for Kareem Rush, Fisher and rookie Luke Walton to produce in those finals.