View Full Version : How would Moses Malone's "move" in 1982-83 be viewed today?
I created a very similar thread a few years ago, but it was deleted in the ISH "purge." But in light of this generation's obsession with talking about "ring chasing", forming "superteams", etc. I decided to revisit it.
In the summer of 1982, Moses Malone was considered by many to be the best player in the game. He had won two of the previous four NBA MVP awards, was the best rebounder in the league, and finished second in scoring during the 1982 season. In 1981 he overachieved and led his team to the NBA Finals against the Celtics. In route to the Finals Malone’s Rockets, in a major upset, eliminated the Showtime Lakers. The next season they did not fair too well, and while having a better regular season record, were eliminated in the first round. That summer this reigning league MVP decided to… “ring chase (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1320&dat=19820916&id=fs5YAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2ukDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3058,5297405&hl=en)”… in his prime, as they call it today.
Moses Malone’s contract with the Rockets had expired, and then he signed an offer sheet with perennial NBA Finalists, Philadelphia 76ers (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2202&dat=19820903&id=Dp9cAAAAIBAJ&sjid=U1gNAAAAIBAJ&pg=6164,285400&hl=en). This “stacked” team had just won 58 games, defeated the defending NBA champion Boston Celtics (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/1982.html) in route to their third Finals in six seasons, and had the league’s best combined regular season winning percentage over that span. (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=861&dat=19821102&id=YcFHAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UoAMAAAAIBAJ&pg=6889,447197&hl=en) They had superstar forward, Dr. J, who was basically KD's and Steph's age now. Dr. J. had won the 1981 MVP and was still all NBA 1st team in 1982. That means the Sixers would now have winners of three of the previous five MVPs on the same team. They also had All Star and All Defensive 1st Team forward, Bobby Jones, along with a host of other quality pieces such as Mo Cheeks and Andrew Toney. After acquiring Malone, the Sixers would send four players to the all star game that season, three starters and one reserve. During training camp Malone stated, “This is Doc’s [Dr. J] show. I’m not going to come in and take away Doc’s show… (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=861&dat=19821102&id=YcFHAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UoAMAAAAIBAJ&pg=6889,447197&hl=en https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=jhZUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=94wDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3346%2C4330513)”
While “free agency” (https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=jhZUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=94wDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3346%2C4330513) as they knew it in the 1980’s was not quite what it is today, Moses Malone rejected his initial offer from the Rockets and signed an offer sheet with the Sixers that the Rockets were not willing to match. Instead of matching it, and in an effort to get at least something in return, they agreed to trade him to the 76ers for center, Caldwell Jones, and a first round draft pick.
In light of how moves such as this are treated today, I searched several articles from that off season seeking out fan and media reaction to something that people would call, “weak”, “punk” or “beta”, in this social media age. Unless I missed something, no such sentiments were expressed by anyone. All of the articles were about…basketball… as opposed to “legacy”, “ring chasing”, or forming "super teams." Malone was not being vilified or castigated for wanting to go to a “stacked” team that was already a title contender. Most articles were actually praising the 76ers for making a move that could finally get them over the hump. A few did criticize the Sixers for robbing the Rockets in this deal. (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19820916&id=UTcpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=H4MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5239,4485609&hl=en)
What happened? But the bigger question is how his move would be viewed today?
RogueBorg
07-29-2021, 02:31 PM
If anything, I think it's closest to what Garnett did by joining Paul Pierce in Boston (leaving the Western Conference to help an Eastern Conference team win a championship.) which really wasn't frowned upon either. It might by a bit like Golden State recruiting Durant to join them but it's also not because Durant stayed in conference and joined the team he couldn't beat, total biznatch move IMO. Moses didn't join a team he couldn't beat. I also don't think it's exactly like Lebron going to Miami. As I recall, Wade, Lebron, and Bosh all colluded together to form a superteam. When Philly got Moses I don't recall Doc and the other players recruiting Moses to come play with them. It was a long time ago and news wasn't as readily available as it is now so I could be wrong about that. IIRC, it was the Sixers front office that made the move and not the players all colluding together to form a superteam. To answer your question, if that move had happened after what Lebron and Durant had done, I'm sure the fans would have been screaming "collusion!"
StrongLurk
07-29-2021, 02:32 PM
No one on ISH cares, 99% of ISH posters weren't even born yet.
Things will be the same with the new generations looking back on 2010-2020...no one will care.
RogueBorg
07-29-2021, 02:38 PM
No one on ISH cares, 99% of ISH posters weren't even born yet.
Things will be the same with the new generations looking back on 2010-2020...no one will care.
I guess I'm in that 1%. Moses is my favorite player. It was frustrating not being able to beat Boston. When Philly landed Moses it was huge for us Boston Haters.
https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/2/philadelphia-76ers-moses-malone-november-01-1982-sports-illustrated-cover.jpg
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 02:39 PM
No one on ISH cares, 99% of ISH posters weren't even born yet.
Things will be the same with the new generations looking back on 2010-2020...no one will care.
Probably. I made a thread about this years ago as well, why nobody gives Moses Malone shit for joining a team that had made the Finals the year before, nobody really gave a good explanation. The Sixers were coming off a Finals loss to the Lakers and Moses Malone was the reigning MVP.
RogueBorg
07-29-2021, 02:57 PM
Probably. I made a thread about this years ago as well, why nobody gives Moses Malone shit for joining a team that had made the Finals the year before, nobody really gave a good explanation. The Sixers were coming off a Finals loss to the Lakers and Moses Malone was the reigning MVP.
It's because Moses was traded to Philadelphia, he didn't collude like Lebron and Durant did. He was a restricted free-agent. Philadelphia offered him 2.2 million/year to come to Philadelphia. Houston matched their offer and then accepted a sign and trade deal to send him to the Sixers. In return Houston got Caldwell Jones and a first-round draft choice Philly owned from the Cavaliers.
That's why you're not getting the same backlash. Moses didn't collude to make a superteam, Houston and the Sixers front offices pulled it off.
“It’s only bad when LeBron does it”-RogueBorg
It's because Moses was traded to Philadelphia, he didn't collude like Lebron and Durant did. He was a restricted free-agent. Philadelphia offered him 2.2 million/year to come to Philadelphia. Houston matched their offer and then accepted a sign and trade deal to send him to the Sixers. In return Houston got Caldwell Jones and a first-round draft choice Philly owned from the Cavaliers.
That's why you're not getting the same backlash. Moses didn't collude to make a superteam, Houston and the Sixers front offices pulled it off.
LeBron was traded to Miami.
Airupthere
07-29-2021, 02:58 PM
Still finding examples to justify and normalize Lebron's circumstances? Any jersey burning on a large scale that happened?
RogueBorg
07-29-2021, 02:59 PM
LeBron was traded to Miami.
Then what was The Decision?
RogueBorg
07-29-2021, 03:01 PM
LeBron was traded to Miami.
Ten years ago, ESPN aired "The Decision," a controversial, live, prime-time special in which NBA free agent LeBron James announced that he would leave his hometown Cleveland Cavaliers and join the Miami Heat.Jun 27, 2020
MadDog
07-29-2021, 03:02 PM
Erving was 33 and past his prime. Still a great player, but 1983 was the last year Doc made 1st team All-NBA. With Cheeks and Toney, the early and mid 80s Sixers were lethal. Many consider them a superteam.
Then what was The Decision?
A television special. What I told you is literally a fact lol. It was agreed to by all parties so the Cavs could get something out of it. Same thing happened with your hero Moses.
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:09 PM
It's because Moses was traded to Philadelphia, he didn't collude like Lebron and Durant did. He was a restricted free-agent. Philadelphia offered him 2.2 million/year to come to Philadelphia. Houston matched their offer and then accepted a sign and trade deal to send him to the Sixers. In return Houston got Caldwell Jones and a first-round draft choice Philly owned from the Cavaliers.
That's why you're not getting the same backlash. Moses didn't collude to make a superteam, Houston and the Sixers front offices pulled it off.
Technically, LeBron was traded to Miami as well. Moses was a free agent in 1982 and the Rockets didn't want to pay him.
Technically, LeBron was traded to Miami as well. Moses was a free agent in 1982 and the Rockets didn't want to pay him.
He doesn’t know this. All he knows is he hates LeBron for challenging MJ.
RogueBorg
07-29-2021, 03:16 PM
A television special. What I told you is literally a fact lol. It was agreed to by all parties so the Cavs could get something out of it.
That's revisionist history. Dan Gilbert and the Cavs didn't know about his Decision until minutes before the program aired. Lebron dictated his move to Miami.
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:19 PM
That's why you're not getting the same backlash. Moses didn't collude to make a superteam, Houston and the Sixers front offices pulled it off.
Except he did, you are just using technicalities as to why Moses didn't collude. If you want to be technical then LeBron never colluded as well. You sound ridiculous. Moses accepted an offer sheet from the Sixers, thus colluding.
MadDog
07-29-2021, 03:20 PM
That's revisionist history. Dan Gilbert and the Cavs didn't know about his Decision until minutes before the program aired. Lebron dictated his move to Miami.
Bruh you don't even needa go that route. :oldlol: Bosh/Wade/LeBron were ALL in their physical prime. Malone joined an aging Erving who was just exiting his. Apples and bowling balls.
Bruh you don't even needa go that route. :oldlol: Bosh/Wade/LeBron were ALL in their physical prime. Malone joined an aging Erving who was just exiting his. Apples and bowling balls.
Dr. J was first team all-NBA, 3rd in MVP voting and led the NBA in BPM the year before Moses joined him. “Aging” doe. Just admit you hate LeBron and hold him to different standards than Moses. Additionally the Sixers had JUST MADE THE FINALS that year.
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:24 PM
Bruh you don't even needa go that route. :oldlol: Bosh/Wade/LeBron were ALL in their physical primes. Malone joined an aging Erving who was just exiting his. Apples and bowling balls.
Moses was not only joining Erving, he was joining Maurice Cheeks, Andrew Toney, & Bobby Jones, all all-star caliber players in their prime. Cheeks and Jones are both in the hall of fame, Andrew Toney was well on his way to be a hall of famer if not for injuries.
Sixers made the Finals in 1980, ECF in 1981, & made the Finals again in 1982, only for MVP Moses to join them, if that is not colluding then I don't know what is.
Airupthere
07-29-2021, 03:25 PM
Bruh you don't even needa go that route. :oldlol: Bosh/Wade/LeBron were ALL in their physical prime. Malone joined an aging Erving who was just exiting his. Apples and bowling balls.
They're reaching hard trying to justify that 2011 collusion. Just accept it, Lebron copped out. He took a shorcut.
Moses was not only joining Erving, he was joining Maurice Cheeks, Andrew Toney, & Bobby Jones, all all-star caliber players in their prime. Cheeks and Jones are both in the hall of fame, Andrew Toney was well on his way to be a hall of famer if not for injuries.
Sixers made the Finals in 1980, ECF in 1981, & made the Finals again in 1982, only for MVP Moses to join them, if that is not colluding then I don't know what is.
Dr. J was in his prime too lmao. Read my previous post. Don’t believe his lies.
So in this thread LeBron haters admit they don’t hate “collusion” they just hate LeBron. As if we didn’t know that already
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:29 PM
Dr. J was in his prime too lmao. Read my previous post. Don’t believe his lies.
These dummies going on google right now to search who Andrew Toney was. lmao. They have no knowledge of the past.
MadDog
07-29-2021, 03:29 PM
Dr. J was first team all-NBA, 3rd in MVP voting and led the NBA in BPM the year before Moses joined him. “Aging” doe. Just admit you hate LeBron and hold him to different standards than Moses. Additionally the Sixers had JUST MADE THE FINALS that year.
More cap. 1983 was the last year J made 1st team All-Team. He was 33 and CLEARLY removed from his physical prime. Meanwhile Bron/Bosh/Wade were in their mid 20s and just beginning theirs. Don't know why I expected you to know the difference. :confusedshrug: Lol you started watching in 2011, tops.
MadDog
07-29-2021, 03:30 PM
They're reaching hard trying to justify that 2011 collusion. Just accept it, Lebron copped out. He took a shorcut.
Damn fam. Keep your foot on their neck.
More cap. 1983 was the last year J made 1st team All-Team. He was 33 and CLEARLY removed from his physical prime. Meanwhile Bron/Bosh/Wade were in their mid 20s and just beginning theirs. Don't know why I expected you to know the difference. :confusedshrug: Lol you started watching in 2011, tops.
He was 32 and coming off a season in which he was 3rd in MVP voting, led the league in BPM and led a team to the finals. He had just won MVP the season before that. He stopped making first team because his numbers took a hit playing with another superstar. You’re retarded and can’t keep your agenda consistent. Sad.
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:33 PM
More cap. 1983 was the last year J made 1st team All-Team. He was 33 and CLEARLY removed from his physical prime. Meanwhile Bron/Bosh/Wade were in their mid 20s and just beginning theirs. Don't know why I expected you to know the difference. :confusedshrug: Lol you started watching in 2011, tops.
2011 was also the last year Wade made All-NBA 2nd team. Bron was winning championships in Miami when Wade was past his prime so i don't see your point.
These dummies going on google right now to search who Andrew Toney was. lmao. They have no knowledge of the past.
2010 was the last time Wade made All-NBA 1st I guess he was washed up by the time LeBron got there by MadFraud’s logic
2011 was also the last year Wade made All-NBA 2nd team. Bron was winning championships in Miami when Wade was past his prime so i don't see your point.
CAUGHT :roll:
Be prepared to hear how Bosh>Maurice Cheeks, Andrew Toney and Bobby Jones COMBINED :oldlol:
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:36 PM
2010 was the last time Wade made All-NBA 1st I guess he was washed up by the time LeBron got there by MadFraud’s logic
"But but, Dr.J was past his prime" :oldlol:
Same morons fail to mention LeBron won back to back titles with Wade obviously past his prime, atleast Dr.J was still All-NBA First team when they won it all in '83 WITH Moses.
"But but, Dr.J was past his prime" :oldlol:
Same morons fail to mention LeBron won back to back titles with Wade obviously past his prime, atleast Dr.J was still All-NBA First team when they won it all in '83 WITH Moses.
Naw man Wade was obviously still a superstar when he averaged 15.9 PPG on trash efficiency in the 13 playoffs :yaohappy:
MadDog
07-29-2021, 03:40 PM
He was 32 and coming off a season in which he was 3rd in MVP voting, led the league in BPM and led a team to the finals. He had just won MVP the season before that. He stopped making first team because his numbers took a hit playing with another superstar. You’re retarded and can’t keep your agenda consistent. Sad.
Winning a MVP in 1981 is relevant to 1983.....how? Kobe was great in 2013 and washed by 2015. Point being? :confusedshrug: You're literally incapable of making a sound argument. But that's probably because you're a post decision, LeBron groupie. That's how you became a Heat fan huh? Bandwagon bitch :oldlol:
"But but, Dr.J was past his prime" :oldlol:
Same morons fail to mention LeBron won back to back titles with Wade obviously past his prime, atleast Dr.J was still All-NBA First team when they won it all in '83 WITH Moses.
He was fifth in MVP voting in 83 lmao. Two guys in the top 5 in MVP voting but it’s fine cuz it’s not LeBron who makes me butthurt for getting too close to muh beloved Mikey.
Airupthere
07-29-2021, 03:40 PM
"But but, Dr.J was past his prime" :oldlol:
Same morons fail to mention LeBron won back to back titles with Wade obviously past his prime, atleast Dr.J was still All-NBA First team when they won it all in '83 WITH Moses.
Past his prime at 30-31 or merely bronballed out of the game?
Winning a MVP in 1981 is relevant to 1983.....how? Kobe was great in 2013 and washed by 2015. Point being? :confusedshrug: You're literally incapable of making a sound argument. But that's probably because you're a post decision, LeBron groupie. That's how you became a Heat fan huh? Bandwagon bitch :oldlol:
He was so washed in 83 he made all-nba first team and was 5th in MVP voting. Kobe got injured and was older, not comparable. You’re having a meltdown because you got exposed as a hypocrite.
MadDog
07-29-2021, 03:41 PM
2011 was also the last year Wade made All-NBA 2nd team. Bron was winning championships in Miami when Wade was past his prime so i don't see your point.
28 year old Wade vs 33 year Erving. Who are you taking? :confusedshrug:
http://images.agoramedia.com/wte3.0/gcms/Soothe-crying-baby-722x406.jpg
:roll:
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:46 PM
Past his prime at 30-31 or merely bronballed out of the game?
Now you have to resort to trolling after I made you guys look like fools. Wade had an extensive injury problems throughout his career, if you actually watched the games you could see he lost a fair amount of explosiveness by the time Miami was winning championships, and he actually regressed even more the year after LeBron left Miami as well.
There are many examples of players regressing/being done by 30, coincidentally Andrew Toney who i was just talking about being one of them.
MadDog
07-29-2021, 03:46 PM
He was so washed in 83 he made all-nba first team and was 5th in MVP voting. Kobe got injured and was older, not comparable. You’re having a meltdown because you got exposed as a hypocrite.
Nobody said J was washed. You're not reading posts guy. I said he was exiting his prime, and clearly past his physical one. Yall are comparing what the Heatles did in their 20s to what Erving did when he was, what, 4 years from retirement? :oldlol: This is why yall are the WORST fans in sports. Bar none.
Now you have to resort to trolling after I made you guys look like fools. Wade had an extensive injury problems throughout his career, if you actually watched the games you could see he lost a fair amount of explosiveness by the time Miami was winning championships, and he actually regressed the year after LeBron left Miami as well.
There are many examples of players regressing/being done by 30, coincidentally Andrew Toney who i was just talking about being one of them.
It’s pathetic how MJ fans resort to lying to discredit LeBron. Obviously insecure about Mikey’s place on the GOAT list. Not sure why most still have him as GOAT.
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:48 PM
28 year old Wade vs 33 year Erving. Who are you taking? :confusedshrug:
1983 All-NBA First Team Erving vs 2012 & 2013 All-NBA Third Team Wade. Who are you taking?
MadDog
07-29-2021, 03:48 PM
1983 All-NBA First Team Erving vs 2012 & 2013 All-NBA Third Team Wade. Who are you taking?
Deflecting. Answer the question, hoe.
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:49 PM
Nobody said J was washed. You're not reading posts guy. I said he was exiting his prime, and clearly past his physical one. Yall are comparing what the Heatles did in their 20s to what Erving did when he was, what, 4 years from retirement? :oldlol: This is why yall are the WORST fans in sports. Bar none.
Continuing to ignore Wade was past his prime by the time Miami was winning, lmao.
"But, but, he was just 28". :roll:
Nobody said J was washed. You're not reading posts guy. I said he was exiting his prime, and clearly past his physical one. Yall are comparing what the Heatles did in their 20s to what Erving did when he was, what, 4 years from retirement? :oldlol: This is why yall are the WORST fans in sports. Bar none.
Clearly past his prime yet coming off a season in which he was 3rd in MVP voting, led his team to the finals, leading the league in BPM, making all NBA 1st team and then followed it up by being first team all nba, 5th in mvp voting, 3rd in BPM and winning the finals. If that was LeBron’s second option you’d literally throw a tantrum just like you are in this thread.
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:51 PM
Deflecting. Answer the question, hoe.
Already did, in case you haven't noticed...
Now you have to resort to trolling after I made you guys look like fools. Wade had an extensive injury problems throughout his career, if you actually watched the games you could see he lost a fair amount of explosiveness by the time Miami was winning championships, and he actually regressed even more the year after LeBron left Miami as well.
There are many examples of players regressing/being done by 30, coincidentally Andrew Toney who i was just talking about being one of them.
Being younger doesn't make him better, '83 Erving was a better player than '12 & '13 Wade, the years both teams won chips.
Continuing to ignore Wade was past his prime by the time Miami was winning, lmao.
"But, but, he was just 28". :roll:
84-85 was the year Dr. J exited his prime, you can tell by looking at his BPM. MadFraud doesn’t care about facts, though, only feelings. LeBron bad :(
Kblaze8855
07-29-2021, 03:52 PM
Yea Moses was the first real superstar to just decide to sign elsewhere it’s just unknown because the rules at the time masked all free agent signings as trades…..
In truth it’s exactly the same as guys now who get “traded” for a couple picks. They are all signed and traded.
MadFraud is getting absolutely bukkake’d by facts in this thread and is so stupid he keeps arguing anyways. :biggums:
Airupthere
07-29-2021, 03:52 PM
Continuing to ignore Wade was past his prime by the time Miami was winning, lmao.
"But, but, he was just 28". :roll:
Convenient and nice coincidence that bosh was past prime at 28, wade at 29-30? Lol.
Yea Moses was the first real superstar to just decide to sign elsewhere it’s just unknown because the rules at the time masked all free agent signings as trades…..
In truth it’s exactly the same as guys now who get “traded” for a couple picks. They are all signed and traded.
https://i.pinimg.com/474x/cd/f8/a2/cdf8a212c20f235f3b4a283664ce0595.jpg
MadDog
07-29-2021, 03:54 PM
Wade wasn't past his prime in 2012. You're all on some bullshit lol
Already did, in case you haven't noticed...
Being younger doesn't make him better, '83 Erving was a better player than '12 & '13 Wade, the years both teams won chips.
Wade being "injury prone in his career" is irrelevant to what I asked. Again, 28 year old Wade or 33 year old Erving. Who was better? Don't act shy now.....
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:54 PM
Yea Moses was the first real superstar to just decide to sign elsewhere it’s just unknown because the rules at the time masked all free agent signings as trades…..
In truth it’s exactly the same as guys now who get “traded” for a couple picks. They are all signed and traded.
Yup.
Wade wasn't past his prime in 2012. You're all on some bullshit lol
Wade being "injury prone in his career" is irrelevant to what I asked. Again, 28 year old Wade or 33 year old Erving. Who was better? Don't act shy now.....
Pretty hard to claim he wasn’t past his prime in 2013, though, and LeBron won that year too, unfortunately for you.
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 03:59 PM
Convenient and nice coincidence that bosh was past prime at 28, wade at 29-30? Lol.
You guys still haven't even addressed Moses joining Cheeks, Toney, & Jones along with Dr. J. Making it seem like Moses was just joining one good player, Miami in 2011 was dogshit outside of the big 3, Sixers actually had championship experience, high end talent, chemistry, & role players who knew their role.
Bosh was still in his prime, he just had to adjust his game, he wasn't playing on a shitty lottery team where he was getting constant touches anymore. Wade was obviously past his prime though, don't know how you could think otherwise if you actually watched the games.
MadDog
07-29-2021, 04:00 PM
Convenient and nice coincidence that bosh was past prime at 28, wade at 29-30? Lol.
Wade was "done" at 29 aka 2011.The same year LeBron sabotaged Wade's FMVP lmao. These fanboys are too easy bruh. Its kinda like playing whack a mole. The poster "RRR3" literally volunteers to get his head split. :oldlol:
You guys still haven't even addressed Moses joining Cheeks, Toney, & Jones along with Dr. J. Making it seem like Moses was just joining one good player, Miami in 2011 was dogshit outside of the big 3, Sixers actually had championship experience, high end talent, chemistry, & role players who knew their role.
Bosh was still in his prime, he just had to adjust his game, he wasn't playing on a shitty lottery team where he was getting constant touches anymore. Wade was obviously past his prime though, don't know how you could think otherwise if you actually watched the games.
But but but LeBron bad :(
HoopsNY
07-29-2021, 04:00 PM
Moses absolutely created a super-team by joining a great team that already had a former MVP just two seasons prior in 1980 and made it to the finals in 1982.
They already had Jones, Cheeks, Dr. J, and Toney. And what's up with this idea that Dr. J was past his prime?
Dr. J was not only an All-Star, All-NBA, and 5th in MVP voting, but he was also:
3rd in BPM
4th in PER
3rd in VORP
5th in OBPM
8th in WS
all in 1983 when they won the championship. Clearly an additional year didn't slow Dr. J down.
If we want to examine it from the perspective of the 1982 season then Dr. J was:
All-NBA 1st Team
All-Star
3rd in MVP voting
5th in scoring
2nd in PER
3rd in WS
6th in OWS
10th in DWS
1st in WS/48
1st in BPM
2nd in VORP
If this is past your prime then dang, the 80s really was a trash era.
Moses absolutely created a super-team by joining a great team that already had a former MVP just two seasons prior in 1980 and made it to the finals in 1982.
They already had Jones, Cheeks, Dr. J, and Toney. And what's up with this idea that Dr. J was past his prime?
Dr. J was not only an All-Star, All-NBA, and 5th in MVP voting, but he was also:
8th in BPM
4th in PER
3rd in VORP
5th in OBPM
8th in WS
all in 1983 when they won the championship. Clearly an additional year didn't slow Dr. J down.
If we want to examine it from the perspective of the 1982 season then Dr. J was:
All-NBA 1st Team
All-Star
3rd in MVP voting
5th in scoring
2nd in PER
3rd in WS
6th in OWS
10th in DWS
1st in WS/48
1st in BPM
2nd in VORP
If this is past your prime then dang, the 80s really was a trash era.
He was 3rd in BPM in 83, not 8th. Other than that, excellent post, good job exposing these idiot LeBron hating trolls.
It's amazing how obsessed people are with Lebron. I originally made this thread the day after KD had signed with GSW. It was his move that precipitated this thread, not Lebron.
HoopsNY
07-29-2021, 04:04 PM
He was 3rd in BPM in 83, not 8th. Other than that, excellent post, good job exposing these idiot LeBron hating trolls.
You're right. I fixed it.
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 04:04 PM
Moses absolutely created a super-team by joining a great team that already had a former MVP just two seasons prior in 1980 and made it to the finals in 1982.
They already had Jones, Cheeks, Dr. J, and Toney. And what's up with this idea that Dr. J was past his prime?
Dr. J was not only an All-Star, All-NBA, and 5th in MVP voting, but he was also:
8th in BPM
4th in PER
3rd in VORP
5th in OBPM
8th in WS
all in 1983 when they won the championship. Clearly an additional year didn't slow Dr. J down.
If we want to examine it from the perspective of the 1982 season then Dr. J was:
All-NBA 1st Team
All-Star
3rd in MVP voting
5th in scoring
2nd in PER
3rd in WS
6th in OWS
10th in DWS
1st in WS/48
1st in BPM
2nd in VORP
If this is past your prime then dang, the 80s really was a trash era.
You know it's over for MJ stans in this thread when another LeBron hater joins the discussion to confirm Moses colluded. As much as I disagree with HoopsNY on some topics, he's one of the most knowledgeable posters here.
MadDog
07-29-2021, 04:05 PM
My original post in this thread
Erving was 33 and past his prime. Still a great player, but 1983 was the last year Doc made 1st team All-NBA. With Cheeks and Toney, the early and mid 80s Sixers were lethal. Many consider them a superteam.
Regardless of whether you think J was in his prime, I agree Philly was stacked. :confusedshrug: Most agree they were a superteam.
You're right. I fixed it.
Appreciate you being objective about this even though you’re an MJ guy :cheers:
I wish MadFraud and Airupthere could do the same.
These idiots don’t realize I have MJ over LeBron anyways lmao. I don’t care if people have MJ over LeBron since I do as well (if you see me saying LeBron is GOAT I’m trolling 3ball or some other troll FYI), but I can’t stand when people just make up shit.
HoopsNY
07-29-2021, 04:06 PM
You know it's over for MJ stans in this thread when another LeBron hater joins the discussion to confirm Moses colluded. As much as I disagree with HoopsNY on some topics, he's one of the most knowledgeable posters here.
I'm certainly not a LeBron hater. If I've said something about LeBron that has no backstory/background or at least something that's unreasonable, then I'm all ears to discuss it.
You know it's over for MJ stans in this thread when another LeBron hater joins the discussion to confirm Moses colluded. As much as I disagree with HoopsNY on some topics, he's one of the most knowledgeable posters here.
So what's the conclusion here then? Lebron's 2011 collusion is fine? Personally, I am not familiar with Moses' circumstances. Lebron's to me is an easy way out. Instant superteam to win it all but did 2/4.
My original post in this thread
Regardless of whether I think J was in his prime, we agree Philly was stacked. :confusedshrug: Most agree they were a superteam.
But you don’t hold it against Moses but LeBron is Hitler when he did something similar :confusedshrug:
Seems like you just hate LeBron. You’re getting annihilated in this thread man I’d just quit if I were you.
HoopsNY
07-29-2021, 04:09 PM
My original post in this thread
Regardless of whether you think J was in his prime, I agree Philly was stacked. :confusedshrug: Most agree they were a superteam.
It's okay to be wrong. I've been wrong on this forum and conceded. Most recently, we were discussing the Dream Team in 1992 vs. the 1996 team. I first opted for the '92 team (media bias probably), Phoenix explained why the '96 team was better. I couldn't dismiss what he said. He was right.
1987_Lakers
07-29-2021, 04:17 PM
So what's the conclusion here then? Lebron's 2011 collusion is fine? Personally, I am not familiar with Moses' circumstances. Lebron's to me is an easy way out. Instant superteam to win it all but did 2/4.
The conclusion is how LeBron gets all the hate for doing it while Moses gets a pass for it. Hypocrisy. But I don't really blame the posters, because some don't really know their history.
MadDog
07-29-2021, 04:20 PM
But you don’t hold it against Moses but LeBron is Hitler when he did something similar :confusedshrug:
Seems like you just hate LeBron. You’re getting annihilated in this thread man I’d just quit if I were you.
I dont because 33 year old J wasn't the player 28 year old Wade was. 2010/2011 Wade was comparable to Kobe/LeBron. I don't believe Erving was that in 1983. See, unlike you, I don't gotta cap for these players. Yall literally think Wade was done at 29. Laughable, and easily the dumbest thing said here. But you're a pom-pom waving cheerleader. Outside of LeBron, and anything LeBron related, you wouldn't know better. :oldlol: Stay in that "GOAT human" lane.
HoopsNY
07-29-2021, 04:22 PM
So what's the conclusion here then? Lebron's 2011 collusion is fine? Personally, I am not familiar with Moses' circumstances. Lebron's to me is an easy way out. Instant superteam to win it all but did 2/4.
I wasn't alive at the time, so you'll have to ask some of the old heads about the signing. My suspicion is that the league already had some seriously stacked teams (LA and Boston), and so Moses' sign and trade didn't stick out like a sore thumb. Heck, you had the Lakers acquiring Bob McAdoo, a HOF center, at the age of 29 (albeit with foot injuries), just the previous season. The trading of Caldwell Jones might also have had something to do with it not really being viewed as the same collusion.
But there might be a more nuanced explanation.
With the NBA/ABA merger, as well as some player movement that we saw, together with big names moving over to some other teams and the NBA having rules like giving up draft picks if a player left for another team, it may have been lost in the "system", as so to speak.
The league sort of settled in towards the mid to late 80s, and we don't see as much big name movement as we did with guys like Oscar, Wilt, Kareem, etc, as well as those who moved from the ABA like Dr. J and Moses. Guys like Hakeem, MJ, Robinson, Malone, Ewing, Magic, Bird, Isiah, etc almost played exclusively with one team.
I suppose a deeper study of this could be done, or maybe older posters can weigh in.
I dont because 33 year old J wasn't the player 28 year old Wade was. 2010/2011 Wade was comparable to Kobe/LeBron. I don't believe Erving was that in 1983. See, unlike you, I don't gotta cap for these players. Yall literally think Wade was done at 29. Laughable, and easily the dumbest thing said here. But you're a pom-pom waving cheerleader. Outside of LeBron, and anything LeBron related, you wouldn't know better. :oldlol: Stay in that "GOAT human" lane.
Was Wade comparable to LeBron when they won rings? :oldlol: You’re having a really hard time keeping up. Again, you’re getting completely abused in this thread and having to resort to trolling because you’ve been exposed as a hypocrite who just hates LeBron.
HoopsNY
07-29-2021, 04:24 PM
The conclusion is how LeBron gets all the hate for doing it while Moses gets a pass for it. Hypocrisy. But I don't really blame the posters, because some don't really know their history.
Time difference and recency bias has a lot to do with it. You're comparing a move that occurred in 1982, nearly three decades prior to the LeBron move. Naturally, it will be spoken of a lot less by comparison.
HoopsNY
07-29-2021, 04:27 PM
You know it's over for MJ stans in this thread when another LeBron hater joins the discussion to confirm Moses colluded. As much as I disagree with HoopsNY on some topics, he's one of the most knowledgeable posters here.
btw, a while back I actually made a thread about LeBron's most memorable moments. Ironically, very few LeBron stans posted in it. Some did, but most didn't. (Unless they're alts which would have explained it.)
https://i.ibb.co/jZ3qXz6/5610-A558-7-AC4-440-D-BEE1-3-F55364-AE3-B1.jpg
MadDog
07-29-2021, 04:30 PM
It's okay to be wrong. I've been wrong on this forum and conceded. Most recently, we were discussing the Dream Team in 1992 vs. the 1996 team. I first opted for the '92 team (media bias probably), Phoenix explained why the '96 team was better. I couldn't dismiss what he said. He was right.
We've all been wrong, but that isn't the case here. Saying a dude at 33 is past their physical prime isn't wrong. What years do you consider his prime? I can "concede" J was still playing at a high level, and have said as much. But the "prime" stuff is certainly debatable. There have been PLENTY of players who produced and were still considered great, but just not at their best. I believe J's best years physically were behind him. In 83, he was 4 years away from retirement.
MJ was 2 years away from retirement in 96 guess he wasn’t in his prime :oldlol:
Holy ****, dude just stop, this is embarrassing.
MadDog
07-29-2021, 04:33 PM
Was Wade comparable to LeBron when they won rings? :oldlol: You’re having a really hard time keeping up. Again, you’re getting completely abused in this thread and having to resort to trolling because you’ve been exposed as a hypocrite who just hates LeBron.
Lol 11 and 12 wade was definitely comparable. You continue to prove you dont know ball. Its cool though. Post something pro LeBron to help you cope.
Lol 11 and 12 wade was definitely comparable. You continue to prove you dont know ball. Its cool though. Post something pro LeBron to help you cope.
Wade was comparable to LeBron in 2012? Are you on meth? Also sadly for you, LeBron also won in 2013 with Wade’s corpse. What’s your excuse for that? :yaohappy:
This dude legit said Wade was comparable to LeBron in 2012 lmao
MadDog
07-29-2021, 04:37 PM
Wade was comparable to LeBron in 2012? Are you on meth? Also sadly for you, LeBron also won in 2013 with Wade’s corpse. What’s your excuse for that? :yaohappy:
Uhhh I've been talking about Wade and J. Not LeBron and Wade,
MJ was 2 years away from retirement in 96 guess he wasn’t in his prime :oldlol:
Holy ****, dude just stop, this is embarrassing.
Kobe wasn't in his prime at 33. :confusedshrug: This topic is over your head, chief.
Uhhh I've been talking about Wade and J. Not LeBron and Wade,
Kobe wasn't in his prime at 33. :confusedshrug: This topic is over your head, chief.
And yet you hate on LeBron and CP3 for not winning a ring at 36. Hmm. What’s with randomly bringing up Kobe?
https://i.ibb.co/jZ3qXz6/5610-A558-7-AC4-440-D-BEE1-3-F55364-AE3-B1.jpg
MadDog
07-29-2021, 04:47 PM
And yet you hate on LeBron and CP3 for not winning a ring at 36. Hmm. What’s with randomly bringing up Kobe?
I'm literally running laps around you lol. Kobe was mentioned to stomp on your MJ example. 33 and "still priming" isn't the case for everyone. It definitely wasn't for Kobe, and I don't believe it was for J - who put up great numbers, and yet was still second fiddle to Malone.
In his prime, does J take a backseat? Doubtful.
I'm literally running laps around you lol. Kobe was mentioned to stomp on your MJ example. 33 and "still priming" isn't the case for everyone. It definitely wasn't for Kobe, and I don't believe it was for J - who put up great numbers, and yet was still second fiddle to Malone.
In his prime, does J take a backseat? Doubtful.
Are you on crack? You’ve literally been factually proven wrong multiple times in this thread. I’m actually embarrassed for you, this is sad. You have no actual arguments you just hate LeBron. Come back when you’re willing to actually make good points.
MadDog
07-29-2021, 05:01 PM
Doc averaged 18/8/3 in the 83 playoffs, and shot 45%. Yet this idiot LeBron fan is crying over me saying Doc wasn't priming. :oldlol: Yeah, OK
Are you on crack? You’ve literally been factually proven wrong multiple times in this thread. I’m actually embarrassed for you, this is sad. You have no actual arguments you just hate LeBron. Come back when you’re willing to actually make good points.
Where? :confusedshrug: In your tiny head, posting memes and dikkriding posters is a W.
HoopsNY
07-29-2021, 05:48 PM
We've all been wrong, but that isn't the case here. Saying a dude at 33 is past their physical prime isn't wrong. What years do you consider his prime? I can "concede" J was still playing at a high level, and have said as much. But the "prime" stuff is certainly debatable. There have been PLENTY of players who produced and were still considered great, but just not at their best. I believe J's best years physically were behind him. In 83, he was 4 years away from retirement.
I didn't see Dr. J play so I can't really say he was or wasn't in his physical prime. But his physical attributes are irrelevant to the conversation; it's what how he produced that really matters.
The fact that he was so high in the MVP voting, All-NBA 1st Team, top 5 in scoring, and top 5 in advanced metrics (top 5 in most categories), tells us that he was absolutely not out of his prime. I don't believe this is debatable. I mean, he led that team to the ECF and they also won 58 games.
Was he in his prime in 1981? If not, then why? Compare 1981 to 1982.
1981: 24.6/8.0/4.4/2.1/1.8 with 3.2 TOs on 52/22/79
1982: 24.4/6.9/3.9/2.2/1.7 with 2.6 TOs on 54/27/76
How about the playoffs?
1981: 22.9/7.1/3.4/1.4/2.6 with 3.4 TOs on 48/0/76
1982: 22.0/7.4/4.7/1.8/1.8 with 3.2 TOs on 52/17/75
The numbers are almost identical. And Dr. J was 31 in 1982, not 33. So was Dr. J also not in his prime in 1981? He finished All-NBA 1st Team in both years btw.
I think you're really stifling your conscience on this one bro. I admire you as a poster. You're usually spot on.
MadDog
07-29-2021, 05:59 PM
I didn't see Dr. J play so I can't really say he was or wasn't in his physical prime. But his physical attributes are irrelevant to the conversation; it's what how produced that really matters.
The fact that he was so high in the MVP voting, All-NBA 1st Team, top 5 in scoring, and top 5 in advanced metrics (top 5 in most categories), tells us that he was absolutely not out of his prime. I don't believe this is debatable. I mean, he led that team to the ECF and they also won 58 games.
Was he in his prime in 1981? If not, then why? Compare 1981 to 1982.
1981: 24.6/8.0/4.4/2.1/1.8 with 3.2 TOs on 52/22/79
1982: 24.4/6.9/3.9/2.2/1.7 with 2.6 TOs on 54/27/76
How about the playoffs?
1981: 22.9/7.1/3.4/1.4/2.6 with 3.4 TOs on 48/0/76
1982: 22.0/7.4/4.7/1.8/1.8 with 3.2 TOs on 52/17/75
The numbers are almost identical. And Dr. J was 31 in 1982, not 33. So was Dr. J also not in his prime in 1981? He finished All-NBA 1st Team in both years btw.
I think you're really stifling your conscience on this one bro. I admire you as a poster. You're usually spot on.
That isn't true, and "production" would be a reason why. We're also talking about 83 Philly. When Malone signed and J was 33. Doc's playoff numbers were 18/8/4 on 45%. Pretty good for a #2, but seeing what he was in the ABA and past NBA years, those numbers are pedestrian. All it takes is one year for a dropoff. Most here consider 18 LeBron part of his "prime" but not 19. Kobe in 2010, but not 2011. Hakeem in 96, but not 97. And so forth.
I also like you as a poster, but here, I think you jumped the shark. :confusedshrug: That's fine though. We can agree to disagree.
HoopsNY
07-29-2021, 11:04 PM
That isn't true, and "production" would be a reason why. We're also talking about 83 Philly. When Malone signed and J was 33. Doc's playoff numbers were 18/8/4 on 45%. Pretty good for a #2, but seeing what he was in the ABA and past NBA years, those numbers are pedestrian. All it takes is one year for a dropoff. Most here consider 18 LeBron part of his "prime" but not 19. Kobe in 2010, but not 2011. Hakeem in 96, but not 97. And so forth.
I also like you as a poster, but here, I think you jumped the shark. :confusedshrug: That's fine though. We can agree to disagree.
Then we're discussing two different things. As I always mention with these conversations concerning superteams, what matters is the formation, not the aftermath.
At the time, the formation certainly was a super-team - as in - the day the deal was signed, sealed, and delivered. What happened in the playoffs doesn't negate that, anymore than Bosh's drop off in numbers, or Love, or Allen, or KG, etc.
Besides, his regular season performance validates it, and the team had one of the greatest seasons in NBA history, and were perhaps the greatest team of all-time.
But yea, prior to the commencement of the '83 season, it absolutely was a super-team, which is what counts. The same with the Celtics of 2007-08, the Heat in 2010-11, the Cavs in 2014-15, etc.
MadDog
07-30-2021, 12:41 AM
Then we're discussing two different things. As I always mention with these conversations concerning superteams, what matters is the formation, not the aftermath.
At the time, the formation certainly was a super-team - as in - the day the deal was signed, sealed, and delivered. What happened in the playoffs doesn't negate that, anymore than Bosh's drop off in numbers, or Love, or Allen, or KG, etc.
Besides, his regular season performance validates it, and the team had one of the greatest seasons in NBA history, and were perhaps the greatest team of all-time.
But yea, prior to the commencement of the '83 season, it absolutely was a super-team, which is what counts. The same with the Celtics of 2007-08, the Heat in 2010-11, the Cavs in 2014-15, etc.
We mostly agree. I actually called Philly stacked in my initial post. Also acknowledge them as GOAT-tier and a superteam. J's best years were behind him though. His production in the playoffs kinda proves that.
We mostly agree. I actually called Philly stacked in my initial post. Also acknowledge them as GOAT-tier and a superteam. J's best years were behind him though. His production in the playoffs kinda proves that.
Refusing to admit you were wrong still yikes.
MadDog
07-30-2021, 12:45 AM
Refusing to admit you were wrong still yikes.
Hoops and I mostly agree. You're PISSED I shit on your argument, and you had zero rebuttal. :oldlol:
Hoops and I mostly agree. You're PISSED I shit on your argument, and you had zero rebuttal. :oldlol:
I annihilated you in this thread lmao. Kind of what happens when one guys uses facts and the other guy sobs about how much he hates LeBron.
3ba11
07-30-2021, 01:09 AM
He doesn’t know this. All he knows is he hates LeBron for challenging MJ.
Lebron hasn't challenged MJ - he won't even reach Kobe in rings.. Karma always works it out - Kobe had less than MJ and Lebron will have less than Kobe
Lebron hasn't challenged MJ - he won't even reach Kobe in rings.. Karma always works it out - Kobe had less than MJ and Lebron will have less than Kobe
MJ had less than Russell and LeBron keeps you up at night. Kobe’s 2002 ring doesn’t count anyways, confirmed as being rigged. Refs went to jail over that.
3ba11
07-30-2021, 01:12 AM
MJ had less than Russell and LeBron keeps you up at night. Kobe’s 2002 ring doesn’t count anyways, confirmed as being rigged. Refs went to jail over that.
We're talking 3-pointer basketball, when only dominant offensive players are MVP-caliber (42 of 42 MVP's since 1980).. 2-pointer basketball is a different sport with no spacing, so a 1-way defender like Russell can be MVP-caliber
We're talking 3-pointer basketball, when only dominant offensive players are MVP-caliber (42 of 42 MVP's since 1980).. 2-pointer basketball is a different sport with no spacing, so a 1-way defender like Russell can be MVP-caliber
Goalpost moving.
iamgine
07-30-2021, 01:41 AM
It would be viewed like if Joel Embiid's contract is expired and he decided to join the Clippers, forming a big 3 with Kawhi and PG.
Taurus
07-30-2021, 03:16 AM
It's amazing how obsessed people are with Lebron. I originally made this thread the day after KD had signed with GSW. It was his move that precipitated this thread, not Lebron.
At this point it's not a matter of if a thread will derail into a Bron thread, but a matter of when.
Lebron23
07-30-2021, 05:18 AM
Only won 1 NBA Title. Lmao
He would be praised for it. Like when Legoat fans praised legoat for quitting on his #1 seed and hopping over to Wades team to lrn2win
HoopsNY
07-30-2021, 08:13 AM
We mostly agree. I actually called Philly stacked in my initial post. Also acknowledge them as GOAT-tier and a superteam. J's best years were behind him though. His production in the playoffs kinda proves that.
Oh, then we're basically debating for nothing, lol.
Stephonit
07-30-2021, 10:06 AM
It's amazing how obsessed people are with Lebron. I originally made this thread the day after KD had signed with GSW. It was his move that precipitated this thread, not Lebron.
Your question in the title is a little unclear. How is Moses' move back then viewed today or how would Moses be viewed if in a similar situation today he did the same move?
The answer to the former is no one cares; it's ancient history. The answer to the latter would depend on who Malone would have joined.
Your question in the title is a little unclear. How is Moses' move back then viewed today or how would Moses be viewed if in a similar situation today he did the same move?
The answer to the former is no one cares; it's ancient history. The answer to the latter would depend on who Malone would have joined.
The question is, how the same exact move made in 1982 would be viewed if it was made in 2021 with the identical context and circumstances.
1987_Lakers
02-28-2024, 10:53 PM
Moses never gets shit for this. The hypocrisy among Bron haters.
Xiao Yao You
02-28-2024, 11:05 PM
Moses never gets shit for this. The hypocrisy among Bron haters.
shit for getting traded to a good team and dominating the league?
1987_Lakers
02-28-2024, 11:09 PM
shit for getting traded to a good team and dominating the league?
Trade you say?
https://www.nytimes.com/1982/09/03/sports/76ers-sign-malone-to-13-million-offer.html
Moses Malone, the most valuable player in the National Basketball Association last season, signed a reported $13 million offer sheet today to play with the Philadelphia 76ers.
Malone, who is 28 years old, became a free agent at the end of last season. The Houston Rockets, for whom the 6-foot-10-inch center played for six years, have 15 days from receipt of a copy of the offer sheet to match it.
The offer was reported to be for six years but neither Harold Katz, the Philadelphia owner, nor Lee Fentress, Malone's attorney, would confirm this figure or the total worth of the proposed contract. But Katz, moving boldly to fill a vacancy created when his club traded Darryl Dawkins to the Nets last week, said the contract would be ''by far the best and biggest'' in N.B.A. history.
Katz said he was confident that the new ownership of the Rockets, a group headed by the Houston businessman Charles Thomas, would be unable or unwilling to match the deal he proposes. 'Facing Major Decision'
SATAN
02-28-2024, 11:51 PM
Moses never gets shit for this. The hypocrisy among Bron haters.
It's outrageous!
Trade you say?
https://www.nytimes.com/1982/09/03/sports/76ers-sign-malone-to-13-million-offer.html
Moses Malone, the most valuable player in the National Basketball Association last season, signed a reported $13 million offer sheet today to play with the Philadelphia 76ers.
Malone, who is 28 years old, became a free agent at the end of last season. The Houston Rockets, for whom the 6-foot-10-inch center played for six years, have 15 days from receipt of a copy of the offer sheet to match it.
The offer was reported to be for six years but neither Harold Katz, the Philadelphia owner, nor Lee Fentress, Malone's attorney, would confirm this figure or the total worth of the proposed contract. But Katz, moving boldly to fill a vacancy created when his club traded Darryl Dawkins to the Nets last week, said the contract would be ''by far the best and biggest'' in N.B.A. history.
Katz said he was confident that the new ownership of the Rockets, a group headed by the Houston businessman Charles Thomas, would be unable or unwilling to match the deal he proposes. 'Facing Major Decision'
Xiao is low key one of the stupidest posters on ISH.
warriorfan
02-29-2024, 04:03 AM
Moses never gets shit for this. The hypocrisy among Bron haters.
Because lebron gets compared to michael jordan, not moses malone
maybe he should be though…you raise some good points
dankok8
02-29-2024, 12:45 PM
Moses was a restricted free agent so Houston had a chance to match the offer. They didn't and then made an arrangement with Philly that they will sign and trade him for Caldwell Jones and a 1st round pick that became Rodney McCray. Caldwell was actually a very good defensive center.
Xiao Yao You
02-29-2024, 05:40 PM
Moses was a restricted free agent so Houston had a chance to match the offer. They didn't and then made an arrangement with Philly that they will sign and trade him for Caldwell Jones and a 1st round pick that became Rodney McCray. Caldwell was actually a very good defensive center.
McCray was good early on in his career too
John8204
02-29-2024, 09:14 PM
It would be respected and viewed positively....people forget just how many All-NBA guys went to new teams post merger. We should respect Moses and Tiny because they led teams to titles.
1977 - Frazier to Cavs
1978 - Archibald to Celtics Barry to Rockets, McGinnis to Nuggets
1979 - Walton to Clippers, McAdoo to Pistons
1980 - Maravich to Celtics, Westphal to Sonics
1981 - Hayes to Rockets
1982 - Thompson to Sonics, Cowens to Bucks
Xiao Yao You
02-29-2024, 09:20 PM
It would be respected and viewed positively....people forget just how many All-NBA guys went to new teams post merger. We should respect Moses and Tiny because they led teams to titles.
1977 - Frazier to Cavs
1978 - Archibald to Celtics Barry to Rockets, McGinnis to Nuggets
1979 - Walton to Clippers, McAdoo to Pistons
1980 - Maravich to Celtics, Westphal to Sonics
1981 - Hayes to Rockets
1982 - Thompson to Sonics, Cowens to Bucks
most of those guys were past their prime or almost done. Moses was at the top of his game
John8204
03-01-2024, 01:49 AM
most of those guys were past their prime or almost done. Moses was at the top of his game
Before that you had Kareem,Maravich, Dr. J, and Rick Barry all leaving in their primes. So it wasn't socialially stigmatized. The 80's was when it became the norm to hold onto your franchise player for 80-90% of their years.
Xiao Yao You
03-01-2024, 06:29 AM
Before that you had Kareem,Maravich, Dr. J, and Rick Barry all leaving in their primes. So it wasn't socialially stigmatized. The 80's was when it became the norm to hold onto your franchise player for 80-90% of their years.
they weren't leaving in free agency to join their buddies on a banana boat though. Owners certainly sold guys
RogueBorg
03-01-2024, 01:48 PM
Moses was a restricted FA. Houston could have kept him and kept him from leaving, all they had to do was match Philly's offer. Instead, they agreed to a sign and trade. Cleveland had no say so in "The Decision."
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