This guy thinks KG is better than Kobe

[JohnMax]

2021 Draft Grades (https://deanondraft.com/2021/08/01/2021-draft-grades/)

2. Jalen Green: F Houston

Given that there are reasons to believe that the Kobe comp is out of bounds for Green, and the KG comp is within the realm of possibility for Mobley, and that KG is better than Kobe (contrary to common beliefs), there’s just no way to slice and dice the information such that Green was the correct pick here.

[Smoke117]

KG is better.

[ninjaseal]

kg is better , he just needed his shaq equivelant,

ray allen paul pierce rondo

[SaintzFury13]

Yeah, honestly, KG was better. He's never going to rank above Kobe on the all time lists due to Kobe's greater accomplishments, but I wouldn't hesitate to put KG above Kobe if we are talking strictly about their talent and impact on the game.

[warriorfan]

Peak KG is one of the more underrated players around.

[ImKobe]

KG was never regarded as the better player, I swear only stat nerds who never actually watched the Playoffs in the 2000s would believe this.

At KG's peak ('04, MVP season), his team lost in 6 games against an injured Kobe and a washed up Shaq. He had HCA in '03 & '04 and lost both times. He was never as good as his advanced metrics would indicate. This is the case of stat nerds who never followed the Playoffs at the time overrating the shit out of KG. He had B2B seasons of winning 33 & 32 games in the middle of his damn prime while Kobe carried equally bad rosters to the Playoffs. So much for that "impact" & "advanced stats".

[Reggie43]

They were years Kg was better obviously.

[RRR3]

KG was never regarded as the better player, I swear only stat nerds who never actually watched the Playoffs in the 2000s would believe this.

At KG's peak ('04, MVP season), his team lost in 6 games against an injured Kobe and a washed up Shaq. He had HCA in '03 & '04 and lost both times. He was never as good as his advanced metrics would indicate. This is the case of stat nerds who never followed the Playoffs at the time overrating the shit out of KG. He had B2B seasons of winning 33 & 32 games in the middle of his damn prime while Kobe carried equally bad rosters to the Playoffs. So much for that "impact" & "advanced stats".
Pretty sure KG was regarded as better in 04. Maybe 05 as well. Outside of that yeah Kobe was always almost unanimously seen as better.

[ImKobe]

Pretty sure KG was regarded as better in 04. Maybe 05 as well. Outside of that yeah Kobe was always almost unanimously seen as better.

Correct.

[iamgine]

Not that crazy of an opinion. KG is often compared as equal to Tim Duncan and Tim Duncan is usually ranked higher than Kobe.

[LAL]

Lmao

[plowking]

KG got past the first round of the playoffs once as the main guy on his team. Once.

He was a jack of all trades type who wasn't good enough at any one thing, particularly scoring to be able to lead a team.

Not close to Kobe at all. Nor is he top 30.

[Reggie43]

KG got past the first round of the playoffs once as the main guy on his team. Once.

He was a jack of all trades type who wasn't good enough at any one thing, particularly scoring to be able to lead a team.

Not close to Kobe at all. Nor is he top 30.

You could have atleast given him his due in regards to rebounding where he led the league in 4 straight years or his defense being a former Dpoy and 12x all defense member but I guess it would go against the 3ball type narrative wouldnt it?

[SaintzFury13]

KG got past the first round of the playoffs once as the main guy on his team. Once.

Yeah? And how many times did KG have a Pau Gasol type of player on his team during any of those occasions? Because when he was in a similar situation as KG, Kobe never actually managed to make it past the first round of the playoffs.

[Smoke117]

KG got past the first round of the playoffs once as the main guy on his team. Once.

He was a jack of all trades type who wasn't good enough at any one thing, particularly scoring to be able to lead a team.

Not close to Kobe at all. Nor is he top 30.

:facepalm

[tpols]

KG is one of the greatest players ever.

Top 15-20 all time despite playing most of his prime with nobodies. Most people don't realize career rankings come down to help more than the individual's prowess.

Everybody in the top ~ 25 couldve been top 5 if given the right help and media spotlight.

[ninjaseal]

exactly^%^^ high iq post

[ninjaseal]

to tell u guys the truth id take a kg fade over a dream shake or kobe fade

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kg+fade

[SouBeachTalents]

KG got past the first round of the playoffs once as the main guy on his team. Once.

He was a jack of all trades type who wasn't good enough at any one thing, particularly scoring to be able to lead a team.

Not close to Kobe at all. Nor is he top 30.
WOAT level post

[lakerstekkenn]

Keven Garnett isn't better then Kobe and that's a fact.

[Kblaze8855]

KG was never regarded as the better player, I swear only stat nerds who never actually watched the Playoffs in the 2000s would believe this.


Nah on here from 02-04 KG vs whoever would have had people taking KG in decent numbers. KG/Duncan was the main argument and that was maybe 60/40 Duncan’s way when Duncan was widely regarded as the best in the world with Shaq slowing down.

Shaq/Duncan/KG/Kobe/Tmac would all get picks for #1 back then with Tmac getting the least and KG having a strong push in 03 and likely winning a poll in 04.

It wasn’t an unusual opinion to have.

[SaintzFury13]

Keven Garnett isn't better then Kobe and that's a fact.

Why is that a fact? What is a statement like this based off of?

[ninjaseal]

Nah on here from 02-04 KG vs whoever would have had people taking KG in decent numbers. KG/Duncan was the main argument and that was maybe 60/40 Duncan’s way when Duncan was widely regarded as the best in the world with Shaq slowing down.

Shaq/Duncan/KG/Kobe/Tmac would all get picks for #1 back then with Tmac getting the least and KG having a strong push in 03 and likely winning a poll in 04.

It wasn’t an unusual opinion to have.

kblaze from youtube? wowww dude posts here hahaa i remember i used to download your montages a LONG TIME AGO

[Shogon]

KG is one of the greatest players ever.

Top 15-20 all time despite playing most of his prime with nobodies. Most people don't realize career rankings come down to help more than the individual's prowess.

Everybody in the top ~ 25 couldve been top 5 if given the right help and media spotlight.

This is exactly correct.

The objective truth about who the "best" was is simply unknowable when you get into splitting hairs at the top. The circumstances around each guy were so different it's impossible to say. The amount of external and, unknowable to our pea brains, dynamic factors that go into a team winning in a team sport, which is the heaviest used thing people use when ranking INDIVIDUAL players... is just mind mindbogglingly large.

There is no way to know. And that's it. The rest of it is just for entertainment. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar or ignorant.

Besides, nobody can accurately define what best even means. That can mean a ton of different things too.

In my opinion, the best player would be the one single guy that would yield the most amount of wins in NBA history with every single possible combination of teammates in NBA history when playing against every other single combination of players. And that is such an exponentially large list, our brains wouldn't even comprehend it.

[Kblaze8855]

kblaze from youtube? wowww dude posts here hahaa i remember i used to download your montages a LONG TIME AGO

Yea I started making those things and posting them on here in like 2002.

[lakerstekkenn]

Why is that a fact? What is a statement like this based off of?

Kobe has accomplished more even when Shaq left, Kobe took an okay team to the finals three years in a row with a bench that couldn't score and Gasol who was considered soft and sometimes didn't show up Pua wasn't giving Kobe 30 plus and double digit rebounds plus crazy assist his numbers were average at best 22 points basically double digits according to his stats Pau averaged about 18 points he's not putting up not Shaq numbers neither Garnet numbers & Artest didn't show up except to play defense Odom was decent nothing special with numbers rebounds and the machine was always broken never played well in the playoffs and Bynum had no knees yet with that team Kobe carried these guys to two rings, something Keven couldn't do at all even with the big three Kobe beat them and Keven only managed one ring ?


Eventually Kobe would wear himself out putting up crazy numbers carrying this team, but it's a team effort and guys stepped up, this myth that all star players need superior talent putting up crazy numbers like Davis 30 plus crazy rebounds and James needing 40 a night plus two other all stars just to win is a myth Kobe did it with less talent then James actually needed and others but it's win now making sure you win so join a championship team like Durant and coast to a championship.




Accomplishments with lesser talent and a okay team, yet Keven has the big three but couldn't bring in multiple titles he had enough talent, just switch Garnet with Kobe on the Celtics Kobe wins multiple rings three in a row, he's licking his chops with the talent bench and deep players Rondo, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen plus their size inside Kobe keeps winning with his big three replacing Keven

Everyone including actual NBA players have Kobe even higher in the top ten all time it's not just fans but actual experts in the sport, they all have Kobe extremely high as a player like Jordan: Kobe's better than LeBron, I'm better than both..

Is Kobe one of the 5 greatest players in NBA history? by Nate Scott
Also the fans vote
Thank you for voting!
Yes, definitely 53.91%


https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/04/kobe-bryant-final-game-lakers-jazz-espn-all-time-ranking-nba

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Magic Johnson
4. Larry Bird
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Bill Russell
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. Tim Duncan
9. Oscar Robertson
10. LeBron James


TNT, Barkley admitted that Kobe is a top 10 player of all time. Then, Barkley went even further when he declared that Kobe is a top five player of all time right now. Not when it is all said and done, but right now.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/522032-kobe-bryant-more-than-an-all-time-great-a-top-5-player-ever

NBA's greatest players of all-time: Who are the top 23? FOX SPORTS
6) KOBE BRYANT
15) KEVIN GARNETT​​​​​​​
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/nba-23-greatest-players-league-history

WHY IS KEVIN GARNETT NO. 15?

When Garnett was the No. 5 overall pick of the 1995 NBA Draft, he became the first player to be drafted out of high school in 20 years, and he stepped into a starting role with the Minnesota Timberwolves, and made an impact right away. Garnett guided the T'Wolves to eight straight playoff appearances, and in 2004 when he won the NBA MVP, he led Minnesota to the Western Conference Finals.

Garnett, the 2008 Defensive Player of the Year, is one of only four players in league history to have nine NBA All-Defensive first-team selections. The other three players are Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and Gary Payton.

"The Big Ticket" spend 12 seasons with the Timberwolves, before joining the Boston Celtics. In his first season with Boston, Garnett, along with Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Rajon Rondo led the Celtics to an NBA title. Garnett finished his career as one of the greatest all-around power forwards in NBA history.

Bryant, who entered the league straight out of Lower Merion High School in Pennsylvania, spent his entire 20-year career with the Los Angeles Lakers, where he was a five-time NBA champion and two-time NBA Finals MVP.

The "Black Mamba" was an 18-time NBA All-Star (second all-time only behind Kareem Abdul-Jabbar), 15-time All-NBA selection (tied with Abdul-Jabbar and Tim Duncan for the most all-time), and 12-time NBA All-Defensive honoree, which includes nine All-Defensive first-team selections (tied with Michael Jordan, Kevin Garnett and Gary Payton for the most ever). Bryant, who has two jersey numbers retired by the Lakers -- No. 8 and No. 24 -- is the all-time leading scorer (33,643 points) in franchise history.

Bryant, the first guard to play at least 20 seasons in the league, scored a career-high 81 points in 2006 against the Toronto Raptors, which is the second-most points scored in a single game in NBA history -- Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 points in a game back in 1962. In his final NBA game in 2016, Bryant scored an NBA season-high 60 points against the Utah Jazz in the Lakers' 101–96 victory. He became the oldest player to score 60+ points in a game at 37 years and 234 days old.



SLAM 500 Greatest NBA Players of All Time has Kobe 10th of the greatest NBA players of all time Garnet is 30th.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

The 50 Greatest NBA Players of All Time SI, Sports Illustrated list
12 — Kobe Bryant
34 — Kevin Garnett

https://www.si.com/nba/2016/02/08/50-greatest-nba-players-all-time#gid=ci02556958e0022580&pid=34--kevin-garnett

[Carbine]

This is exactly correct.

The objective truth about who the "best" was is simply unknowable when you get into splitting hairs at the top. The circumstances around each guy were so different it's impossible to say. The amount of external and, unknowable to our pea brains, dynamic factors that go into a team winning in a team sport, which is the heaviest used thing people use when ranking INDIVIDUAL players... is just mind mindbogglingly large.

There is no way to know. And that's it. The rest of it is just for entertainment. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar or ignorant.

Besides, nobody can accurately define what best even means. That can mean a ton of different things too.

In my opinion, the best player would be the one single guy that would yield the most amount of wins in NBA history with every single possible combination of teammates in NBA history when playing against every other single combination of players. And that is such an exponentially large list, our brains wouldn't even comprehend it.

It's not true though. There is a visual different between Magic (pretty much universally top 5) and a guy that's in the 20-25 range like a Dirk or KG.

There is a reason those guys in the 20-25 range are where they are. They don't have the MVPs or individual accolades required because the better players of their era have those awards. I could watch 5 games and tell you LeBron is a greater player than Dirk was.

If he said top 12ish, sure.

But you need a certain kind of standard as an individual player to be held in that high regard as top 5 ever. Those players in the 20-25 range don't have it.

[Axe]

KG is one of the greatest players ever.

Top 15-20 all time despite playing most of his prime with nobodies. Most people don't realize career rankings come down to help more than the individual's prowess.

Everybody in the top ~ 25 couldve been top 5 if given the right help and media spotlight.
This is a funny opinion from someone who considers pippen a scrub.

[3ba11]

KG got past the first round of the playoffs once as the main guy on his team. Once.

He was a jack of all trades type who wasn't good enough at any one thing, particularly scoring to be able to lead a team.

Not close to Kobe at all. Nor is he top 30.


But Pippen is top 30 so KG must be a lot higher than that.. Oh wait... pippen isn't really top 30 - it's just the 6 ring blinders that all the new fans are wearing... So only KG is top 30... carry on.

and who says that green can't compare to kobe - Green's comp is a kobe-TYPE

[Smook A.]

That whole piece is one of the worst NBA-related things I've ever read. The guy really gave Detroit a D for selecting Cade, and an F for the Rockets for selecting Jalen Green purely because they didn't select who he thinks is "by far" the best prospect of this draft -- Evan Mobley... What the **** kind of bullshit analysis is that??

[RRR3]

WOAT level post
That poster said KG is top “50-100”. Absolutely braindead.

[kennygriffin]

hey guys. didn't you know

Lebron, KG, Boris Diaw and Scottie Pippen >>>>>> Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant


because its not about how great you are.. its about how all around you are. if you can average more of the OTHER stats while being longer and taller you're automatically better

especially if you can score anywhere between 15-20 points. because anyone that can do that could easily drop 60+ if they wanted lol


i mean... KG called up kobe in 2007 trying to join HIM in LA because he wanted kobe to be his robin

DUUUUH


https://i.ibb.co/DL4Vwx4/Screen-Shot-2021-08-09-at-4-50-28-AM.png

[rawimpact]

Yeah KG is a different beast.

I'd rank him only below Kareem and Wilt.

[SaintzFury13]

Kobe has accomplished more even when Shaq left

I stopped reading after this.

The only reason Kobe accomplished more is because Garnett was injured in 2009 and both him and Allen/Pierce were all on a clear decline in 2010. And even then they still almost managed to beat LA, something that would have happened had it not been for Artest and Pau bailing Kobe out of what would have been the biggest choke job in a game 7 in NBA history had the Lakers lost that game. Luckily for him, they didn't. If it wasn't for these factors, factors that you openly disregarded in the very beginning of this post, KG would be 3-0 vs Bryant in the NBA finals and Kobe would have nothing to show for his post-Shaq career.

Don't make a long post like this if you're going to start it out with such an incredibly idiotic statement.


hey guys. didn't you know

Lebron, KG, Boris Diaw and Scottie Pippen >>>>>> Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant


because its not about how great you are.. its about how all around you are. if you can average more of the OTHER stats while being longer and taller you're automatically better

especially if you can score anywhere between 15-20 points. because anyone that can do that could easily drop 60+ if they wanted lol


i mean... KG called up kobe in 2007 trying to join HIM in LA because he wanted kobe to be his robin

DUUUUH


https://i.ibb.co/DL4Vwx4/Screen-Shot-2021-08-09-at-4-50-28-AM.png

So being better than someone in multiple categories doesn't matter all of a sudden? As long as Kobe is better than Garnett in scoring, that suddenly negates all of the other things Garnett was clearly superior in? What kind of brain dead logic is that?

[FireDavidKahn]

KG was never regarded as the better player, I swear only stat nerds who never actually watched the Playoffs in the 2000s would believe this.

At KG's peak ('04, MVP season), his team lost in 6 games against an injured Kobe and a washed up Shaq. He had HCA in '03 & '04 and lost both times. He was never as good as his advanced metrics would indicate. This is the case of stat nerds who never followed the Playoffs at the time overrating the shit out of KG. He had B2B seasons of winning 33 & 32 games in the middle of his damn prime while Kobe carried equally bad rosters to the Playoffs. So much for that "impact" & "advanced stats".

It's so ironic you talk about "stat nerds" and yet it is painfully obvious you never actually followed KG nor his prime in the early-mid 2000's and why he didn't have much success. It is you who is being a "stat nerd" by not even looking (let alone knowing) at the context.

The only thing you are using for your argument is stats

[lakerstekkenn]

I stopped reading after this.

The only reason Kobe accomplished more is because Garnett was injured in 2009 and both him and Allen/Pierce were all on a clear decline in 2010. And even then they still almost managed to beat LA, something that would have happened had it not been for Artest and Pau bailing Kobe out of what would have been the biggest choke job in a game 7 in NBA history had the Lakers lost that game. Luckily for him, they didn't. If it wasn't for these factors, factors that you openly disregarded in the very beginning of this post, KG would be 3-0 vs Bryant in the NBA finals and Kobe would have nothing to show for his post-Shaq career.

Don't make a long post like this if you're going to start it out with such an incredibly idiotic statement.



So being better than someone in multiple categories doesn't matter all of a sudden? As long as Kobe is better than Garnett in scoring, that suddenly negates all of the other things Garnett was clearly superior in? What kind of brain dead logic is that?



You just admitted that Kobe accomplished more in his career with less when Garnet had the advantage in talent while Kobe had injured help like Bynum, according to your logic Garnet with more help pulled off the biggest choke job in the history of Basketball stealing one game in La then blowing a home game on the road and losing the series in 7 with a injured worn out Kobe who had a bad game, Keven didn't show up to close out an easy win against a hobbled Kobe, so Keven choked.



Allen goes to Miami and wins ring for James but your saying he's past prime ? he couldn't hit those shots in game 7 ? poor excuses.




Garnett was 31 years old in 2010 June & Kobe was 31 years old they were both still prime he had at least 3 more good years left in them and not past prime, unless Garnett's body gave out ? he was born in 1976 May 19. Kobe birth August 23 1978. Garnett was drafted in 1995 & Kobe was drafted in 1996 what past prime both out from high school what past prime old Garnett are you talking about ?



Jordan could pull off 39 points in game 6 vs the Jazz at the age of 34 years old ? but Keven couldn't give you more then 17 points and 3 rebounds ?

If you want to try and bash Kobe's numbers in game 7 well Jordan could only put up 22 points in game 6 and 4 rebounds terrible numbers for Jordan vs Utah in 1997 so yes bad games happen, but check Keven's numbers throughout the 7 game series vs Kobe's and tell me Garnett didn't choke ?



Kobe's okay game in game 7 vs Boston 2010 Kobe's numbers 23 points 15 rebounds 2 assist 1 steal okay numbers but solid

Jordan's okay game against the Jazz in game 6 1997, 22 points 3 rebounds and 4 assist 0 steals ? your standards terrible numbers especially since it's Jordan.



The argument your using from other posters to bash Kobe won't work with me.



Why you ask ? can Jordan have worse numbers then Kobe in a finals game ? fatigue ? carrying the Bulls scoring like crazy numbers ? just like Kobe against Boston ? check the stats in the other finals games also because both Kobe and Jordan showed up putting up great numbers.

Garnett game 1 vs LA 12 points ? prime 31 years old Garnett with the big three only puts up 12 points ? Kobe put up 30 points in game 1.

Garnett game 2 vs LA 6 points Kobe in the loss put up 21 points

Game 3 Kobe 29 points Garnett 25 points Keven finally shows up

Game 4 Kobe 33 points Keven Garnett 13 points ?

Game 5 Kobe 34 points Garnett 18 points

Game 6 Garnett 12 points Kobe 26 point

Game 7 Kobe 23 points Garnett 17 points


Who choked ? Kobe's numbers are solid especially going against the big three super team that James lost to.

Game 7 June 17 2010 Keven's numbers 17 points ? 3 rebounds 2 assist 0 steals 4 blocks.

Game 7 June 17 2010 Kobe's numbers 23 points 15 rebounds 2 assist 1 steal

Boston got out rebounded by the Lakers 53 to 40 Kobe grabbed 15 rebounds being a guard but Keven only grabs 3 ? no rebounds no rings.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201006170LAL.html




The two games that Garnett when needed to put up the numbers to win the series he didn't show up, at 31 years old ? and game 6 Keven only puts up 12 points ? game 7 Garnett could've put up 25 points to close the series but only put up 17 ? with terrible rebounding ?

Keven choked and not Kobe, so that argument won't work.


KG wouldn't be three and zero against Kobe when he lost one ? also with Ariza the Lakers were better in 2009 then without Ariza in 2010, Ariza hit open shots played defense slashed attacking the basket, that Lakers team was better then the 2010 Lakers team because Artest couldn't give you those all around numbers, so NO Keven isn't going to win in 2009 like he didn't win in 2010 and Boston wasn't past prime when they crushed James ? when James was prime putting up crazy numbers against them, it was the Lakers size that gave Boston problems something Cleveland didn't have to even things out even with Shaq past prime, the fix that didn't work, Boston had veteran size and power strength along with Keven and Allen plus Paul who could score, the Lakers matched up with Boston on the inside rebounding and scoring plus they had the defense outside to slow down Paul with Artest and Allen using Fisher's quickness, they didn't have anybody to contest Keven but he didn't show up, Kobe kept the Lakers in the series and defense won them these close games until both teams were spent and rebounding defense and smart play won the Lakers the series in 7 Keven should've shown up big time putting up crazy numbers but didn't.



How again is Keven Garnett better then Kobe ?

[LAL]

You just admitted that Kobe accomplished more in his career with less when Garnet had the advantage in talent while Kobe had injured help like Bynum, according to your logic Garnet with more help pulled off the biggest choke job in the history of Basketball stealing one game in La then blowing a home game on the road and losing the series in 7 with a injured worn out Kobe who had a bad game, Keven didn't show up to close out an easy win against a hobbled Kobe, so Keven choked.



Allen goes to Miami and wins ring for James but your saying he's past prime ? he couldn't hit those shots in game 7 ? poor excuses.




Garnett was 31 years old in 2010 June & Kobe was 31 years old they were both still prime he had at least 3 more good years left in them and not past prime, unless Garnett's body gave out ? he was born in 1976 May 19. Kobe birth August 23 1978. Garnett was drafted in 1995 & Kobe was drafted in 1996 what past prime both out from high school what past prime old Garnett are you talking about ?



Jordan could pull off 39 points in game 6 vs the Jazz at the age of 34 years old ? but Keven couldn't give you more then 17 points and 3 rebounds ?

If you want to try and bash Kobe's numbers in game 7 well Jordan could only put up 22 points in game 6 and 4 rebounds terrible numbers for Jordan vs Utah in 1997 so yes bad games happen, but check Keven's numbers throughout the 7 game series vs Kobe's and tell me Garnett didn't choke ?



Kobe's okay game in game 7 vs Boston 2010 Kobe's numbers 23 points 15 rebounds 2 assist 1 steal okay numbers but solid

Jordan's okay game against the Jazz in game 6 1997, 22 points 3 rebounds and 4 assist 0 steals ? your standards terrible numbers especially since it's Jordan.



The argument your using from other posters to bash Kobe won't work with me.



Why you ask ? can Jordan have worse numbers then Kobe in a finals game ? fatigue ? carrying the Bulls scoring like crazy numbers ? just like Kobe against Boston ? check the stats in the other finals games also because both Kobe and Jordan showed up putting up great numbers.

Garnett game 1 vs LA 12 points ? prime 31 years old Garnett with the big three only puts up 12 points ? Kobe put up 30 points in game 1.

Garnett game 2 vs LA 6 points Kobe in the loss put up 21 points

Game 3 Kobe 29 points Garnett 25 points Keven finally shows up

Game 4 Kobe 33 points Keven Garnett 13 points ?

Game 5 Kobe 34 points Garnett 18 points

Game 6 Garnett 12 points Kobe 26 point

Game 7 Kobe 23 points Garnett 17 points


Who choked ? Kobe's numbers are solid especially going against the big three super team that James lost to.

Game 7 June 17 2010 Keven's numbers 17 points ? 3 rebounds 2 assist 0 steals 4 blocks.

Game 7 June 17 2010 Kobe's numbers 23 points 15 rebounds 2 assist 1 steal

Boston got out rebounded by the Lakers 53 to 40 Kobe grabbed 15 rebounds being a guard but Keven only grabs 3 ? no rebounds no rings.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201006170LAL.html




The two games that Garnett when needed to put up the numbers to win the series he didn't show up, at 31 years old ? and game 6 Keven only puts up 12 points ? game 7 Garnett could've put up 25 points to close the series but only put up 17 ? with terrible rebounding ?

Keven choked and not Kobe, so that argument won't work.


KG wouldn't be three and zero against Kobe when he lost one ? also with Ariza the Lakers were better in 2009 then without Ariza in 2010, Ariza hit open shots played defense slashed attacking the basket, that Lakers team was better then the 2010 Lakers team because Artest couldn't give you those all around numbers, so NO Keven isn't going to win in 2009 like he didn't win in 2010 and Boston wasn't past prime when they crushed James ? when James was prime putting up crazy numbers against them, it was the Lakers size that gave Boston problems something Cleveland didn't have to even things out even with Shaq past prime, the fix that didn't work, Boston had veteran size and power strength along with Keven and Allen plus Paul who could score, the Lakers matched up with Boston on the inside rebounding and scoring plus they had the defense outside to slow down Paul with Artest and Allen using Fisher's quickness, they didn't have anybody to contest Keven but he didn't show up, Kobe kept the Lakers in the series and defense won them these close games until both teams were spent and rebounding defense and smart play won the Lakers the series in 7 Keven should've shown up big time putting up crazy numbers but didn't.



How again id Keven Garnett better then Kobe ?

https://i.imgur.com/qHeomq1.gif

[lakerstekkenn]

It's so ironic you talk about "stat nerds" and yet it is painfully obvious you never actually followed KG nor his prime in the early-mid 2000's and why he didn't have much success. It is you who is being a "stat nerd" by not even looking (let alone knowing) at the context.

The only thing you are using for your argument is stats


31 year old Garnett with his big three super team lost to Kobe in 7 games while putting up terrible numbers and rebounding ? against Kobe and his Lakers injured no knee Bynum and a soft Gasol plus crazy Artest who couldn't play smart Basketball ? and no bench they beat the big three super team in Boston ? check the numbers Garnett game 6 points ? 12 points ? the biggest close out game in his career only put up 12 points ? and in game 7 Keven puts up 17 points ? 3 rebounds while Kobe puts up 23 points and 15 rebounds ? and your claiming Keven was better ? you claim well Kobe had Shaq so he beat Keven but when Keven had his big three he manages only one ring being prime at 31, while Kobe had a worse team and grabbed two rings while Keven had the advantage in talent and when the roles were reversed, Kobe still came out on top?

[Gohan]

Im done with the nba forum you losers actually think kg is better than kobe..smh

[lakerstekkenn]

Correction it was game 4 of the 1997 finals Jordan had 22 points not game 6 my mistake, it still happened to Jordan, just in case any posters claim I lied.

Game 4, Jun 8 Jordan's okay game against the Jazz in game 4, not game 6 1997, 22 points 3 rebounds and 4 assist 0 steals ?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199706080UTA.html

All finals games in 1997

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-finals-jazz-vs-bulls.html

[SaintzFury13]

You just admitted that Kobe accomplished more in his career with less when Garnet had the advantage in talent while Kobe had injured help like Bynum

Again, not going to waste my time reading your post when you are opening it up with something so idiotic.

When did I ever admit that Kobe accomplished more with less help? You can clearly see me explaining in my very own post that Kobe needed to be bailed out by his own teammates just to beat an aging Celtics team who were clearly a step below what they were in 2008. You want to sit here and say Kobe had injured help like Bynum? Bynum was fully healthy in the 2009 and 2010 Finals series that they won. They had no injury issues going into those series. The only time that was the case was in 2008, and Andrew Bynum wasn't going to change the series enough to give LA that series. Boston was the clear cut better team.

Let's talk about your claim that Kobe won "with less". KG did have Pierce and Allen, yes. But Paul Pierce in 2010 was basically a role player who shot the ball inefficiently and was locked down by LeBron and Artest. Ray Allen did play great in the 2010 NBA finals I will not take that away from him. But he was, at best, an elite three point shooter and that's it. The difference maker in this scenario is Rajon Rondo, who was an elite playmaking point guard who had the Cavaliers bamboozled which allowed Boston to get past them and Orlando to go to the finals. And he actually almost won Boston the entire series in game 7. But let's look at what LA had shall we? They still had a legitimate all star power forward in Pau Gasol who didn't make the team out of pity like the Celtics "big three" did. Ron Artest basically took over the duties of guarding the opposing teams best offensive player so Kobe no longer had to do it. Bynum, along with Gasol, made the Lakers an incredibly difficult team to deal with down low. If you didn't have two seven footers on your team to contend with their bigs, you were ****ed. Cleveland ran into the same problem in 2009 and only in 2010 were they able to counter than when they acquired Shaq. From a talent standpoint, it's still very clear Boston had more. They had a much better bench and you can argue that they had a superior starting five. But the Lakers were constructed a lot better and were a lot harder to match up with. And not to mention, most of their core players were still in their prime and were a lot more consistent. So the claim that Kobe won "with less" is bullshit. In terms of what they had to work with, it is, at best, a wash.

And in the end, Kobe was saved by the fact that Cleveland matched up terribly against Orlando and KG was injured. He was handed the 2009 NBA Finals on a silver platter. And then to add further insult to injury, he was saved by his teammates in 2010. Remember when you said he won with less? You tell me when KG needed to be bailed out by his teammates to win a playoff series (and don't say 2008 against the Cavaliers).

[Shogon]

It's not true though. There is a visual different between Magic (pretty much universally top 5) and a guy that's in the 20-25 range like a Dirk or KG.

There is a reason those guys in the 20-25 range are where they are. They don't have the MVPs or individual accolades required because the better players of their era have those awards. I could watch 5 games and tell you LeBron is a greater player than Dirk was.

If he said top 12ish, sure.

But you need a certain kind of standard as an individual player to be held in that high regard as top 5 ever. Those players in the 20-25 range don't have it.

The eye test is just the eye test... it leaves out so many details and so much nuance that it couldn't possibly be honest when you're splitting hairs to that degree. Much in the same way that exclusively reading a boxscore isn't going to tell you shit.

Do I think Magic was better than Dirk? Absolutely. No hesitation, yes I do.

Would it absolutely floor me to "learn" the "objective truth" that Dirk was actually better? Nah, probably not.

And what a shitty example you gave... and you also immediately reverted to team based accomplishments as a way to compare the players because you apparently lack the intellectual capacity to realize that even MVP awards are essentially team based awards in most cases. It's almost like you didn't even read the post and bother to let it sink in whatsoever. Dirk had mostly trash teams around him for the majority of his career, lol.

Pick someone that played on better teams or something, idk.

[Shogon]

Would it shock you to learn that Magic was an objectively better player than Jordan, if we were ever in a position to know such a thing?

Stop and think about it. Just saying.

[Carbine]

Not really. They're both the best players at their position ever though, undisputed. Both top five players ever.

There's nothing out there that would make Dirk better than Magic. He could have ended up with 2 titles and still hold his claim as GOAT PG because the people watched him play.

Look who has won most of the MVP awards. The best eye test players of the era.

[ScottieQuitting]

KG got past the first round of the playoffs once as the main guy on his team. Once.

He was a jack of all trades type who wasn't good enough at any one thing, particularly scoring to be able to lead a team.

Not close to Kobe at all. Nor is he top 30.

Agree with everything, but he is definitely top 30.

And he was better than Duncan, if you consider Gay Timmy a PF even though he was a Center. He was a better defender. He could defend on the low block, but was versatile enough to guard small forwards and shooting guards on the perimeter. He wasn’t a liability with slow feet on perimeter guys during high pick and roll defense, like Duncan.

With that said, Anthony Davis is a better version of KG. A superior evolutionary version. Hate to break it to you guys. I’m ahead of the curve on that one. And I like both guys.

But no, KG was never better than Kobe. The late in game shrinking factor and seemingly fun shy or lack of offensive versatility for consistent prolific shot creation late in games is too much to ignore.

With that said he would’ve been better suited as a more competitive, aggressive, mentally tough Super Pippen. He actually would’ve been a better complementary piece next to Kobe than even Pau Gasoft was, to be honest.

[ShawkFactory]

Agree with everything, but he is definitely top 30.

And he was better than Duncan, if you consider Gay Timmy a PF even though he was a Center. He was a better defender. He could defend on the low block, but was versatile enough to guard small forwards and shooting guards on the perimeter. He wasn’t a liability with slow feet on perimeter guys during high pick and roll defense, like Duncan.

With that said, Anthony Davis is a better version of KG. A superior evolutionary version. Hate to break it to you guys. I’m ahead of the curve on that one. And I like both guys.

But no, KG was never better than Kobe. The late in game shrinking factor and seemingly fun shy or lack of offensive versatility for consistent prolific shot creation late in games is too much to ignore.

With that said he would’ve been better suited as a more competitive, aggressive, mentally tough Super Pippen. He actually would’ve been a better complementary piece next to Kobe than even Pau Gasoft was, to be honest.

He also couldn't be relied upon offensively like Duncan could.

[Carbine]

Duncan wasn't a liability in the pick and roll until he was like 30. Then he could be taken advantage of like most any other 7 footer.

[ScottieQuitting]

He also couldn't be relied upon offensively like Duncan could.
No, that’s overstated.

Tim Duncan wasn’t some dramatically more dominant scorer. Particularly down the stretch of games compared to KG. Maybe by a little. But not in the stark difference and way we’re comparing Kobe and Kevin Garnett.

Duncan’s fourth quarter scoring and closing ability was masked a lot better than Kevin Garnett’s Timberwolf teams, because Tim had really clutch guys and scorers around him. Like Manu Ginóbili and Tony Parker. He played for a way superior franchise for the entire tenure of his prime. Kevin Garnett didn’t have that luxury.

The second KG had quality players around him, even though everybody involved was a lot older, his Boston Celtics teams were better than ANY Tim Duncan team.

[ScottieQuitting]

Duncan wasn't a liability in the pick and roll until he was like 30. Then he could be taken advantage of like most any other 7 footer.
He wasn’t that mobile as a defender even before then. And KG lasted a lot longer having those abilities to defend more versatily.

[ShawkFactory]

No, that’s overstated.

Tim Duncan wasn’t some dramatically more dominant scorer. Particularly down the stretch of games compared to KG. Maybe by a little. But not in the stark difference and way we’re comparing Kobe and Kevin Garnett.

Duncan’s fourth quarter scoring and closing ability was masked a lot better than Kevin Garnett’s Timberwolf teams, because Tim had really clutch guys and scorers around him. Like Manu Ginóbili and Tony Parker. He played for a way superior franchise for the entire tenure of his prime. Kevin Garnett didn’t have that luxury.

The second KG had quality players around him, even though everybody involved was a lot older, his Boston Celtics teams were better than ANY Tim Duncan team.

Tim Duncan has proven numerous times that in the biggest games and series, that the offense can work 100% through him. Not the case with KG.

Not even seeing what there is to argue about that.

[gonzaldo]

Minnesota had some really bad teams and made some really dumb decisions. let say they dont trade Ray Allen and resign Billups, id say they win 2-3 titles and KG is seen as top 10-15 player.

[ScottieQuitting]

Tim Duncan has proven numerous times that in the biggest games and series, that the offense can work 100% through him. Not the case with KG.

Not even seeing what there is to argue about that.

I do agree with that. I just don’t think it’s as dramatic as you’re making out to be. Tim Duncan had a lot more weapons around him to distract a defense. KG didn’t.

With that said I don’t think it’s in KG’s nature to be that dominant of a scorer, particularly down the stretch of games.

That’s also why I said Anthony Davis is a better more evolutionary version of him, because he basically brings the same level of defense and abilities in that regard. While bringing better scoring, and shooting. Especially down the stretch of games.

Would you also agree that Tim Duncan is naturally more of a center than he is a power forward? I rather have Kevin Garnett. I think Tim Duncan is one of the more overrated players in history.

All of his failures are always swept under the rug, because honestly, he’s not as important as people make him out to be. He’s not the greatest power forward of all time, because he wasn’t even a power forward. If you judge him based on his real position, which is center, I take David Robinson within his own franchise over him. Let alone Shaq, Russell, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, etc

So given your argument here, don’t you think it’s egregious to say Kevin Garnett was better than Kobe Bryant? I mean Kobe has four rings where he’s an alpha caliber player. Definitively two of them. And went to three finals definitively as his teams best player.

[lakerstekkenn]

Again, not going to waste my time reading your post when you are opening it up with something so idiotic.

When did I ever admit that Kobe accomplished more with less help? You can clearly see me explaining in my very own post that Kobe needed to be bailed out by his own teammates just to beat an aging Celtics team who were clearly a step below what they were in 2008. You want to sit here and say Kobe had injured help like Bynum? Bynum was fully healthy in the 2009 and 2010 Finals series that they won. They had no injury issues going into those series. The only time that was the case was in 2008, and Andrew Bynum wasn't going to change the series enough to give LA that series. Boston was the clear cut better team.

Let's talk about your claim that Kobe won "with less". KG did have Pierce and Allen, yes. But Paul Pierce in 2010 was basically a role player who shot the ball inefficiently and was locked down by LeBron and Artest. Ray Allen did play great in the 2010 NBA finals I will not take that away from him. But he was, at best, an elite three point shooter and that's it. The difference maker in this scenario is Rajon Rondo, who was an elite playmaking point guard who had the Cavaliers bamboozled which allowed Boston to get past them and Orlando to go to the finals. And he actually almost won Boston the entire series in game 7. But let's look at what LA had shall we? They still had a legitimate all star power forward in Pau Gasol who didn't make the team out of pity like the Celtics "big three" did. Ron Artest basically took over the duties of guarding the opposing teams best offensive player so Kobe no longer had to do it. Bynum, along with Gasol, made the Lakers an incredibly difficult team to deal with down low. If you didn't have two seven footers on your team to contend with their bigs, you were ****ed. Cleveland ran into the same problem in 2009 and only in 2010 were they able to counter than when they acquired Shaq. From a talent standpoint, it's still very clear Boston had more. They had a much better bench and you can argue that they had a superior starting five. But the Lakers were constructed a lot better and were a lot harder to match up with. And not to mention, most of their core players were still in their prime and were a lot more consistent. So the claim that Kobe won "with less" is bullshit. In terms of what they had to work with, it is, at best, a wash.

And in the end, Kobe was saved by the fact that Cleveland matched up terribly against Orlando and KG was injured. He was handed the 2009 NBA Finals on a silver platter. And then to add further insult to injury, he was saved by his teammates in 2010. Remember when you said he won with less? You tell me when KG needed to be bailed out by his teammates to win a playoff series (and don't say 2008 against the Cavaliers).








Check Paul and Allens numbers in that series they carried Keven throughout that series there you go again posting mistakes check the game stats please and tell me Allen and Paul were a shell of themselves.


Paul was Born Oct 13, 1977 not past prime. Allen was Born Jul 20, 1975 not past prime.



Game 1 Paul 24 points Keven 16 ? Allen 12 where was Keven Garnett ? he's the leader still in his prime, Perkins 8 Rondo 13 Wallace 9 Davis 3 Allen Tony 4 ? so it's Allen's fault ? Keven couldn't put up better numbers ?



Kobe 30 Pau 23 Artest 15 Fisher 9 Bynum 10 Lakers bench Odum 5 points ? Brown 6 points Farmar 4 points






The numbers are similar but the main two leaders stars Kobe & Keven are years apart 30 vs 16 ? everyone else did their job except Keven and Ray Allen the bench is even how tiny Fisher shut Allen down is puzzling ? and how Pau shut Keven down to 16 points is puzzling.


Game 2 Ray Allen 32 points Paul 19 points in a win, it looks like Allen bounced back after a bad game 1 performance.


Game 5 Paul 27 points in the win the scoring was balanced Kobe 38 points nobody else on the Lakers showed not even Pau with his 12 points.



Game 6 Ray Allen 19 points everyone else a no show especially Keven the leader with his 12 points Paul had 13



Game 7 Paul had 18 points 10 rebounds Allen 13 points Rondo 14 Keven 17 with 3 rebounds




KG that didn't show up in the finals he's the leader he's supposedly better then Kobe still prime but he's not showing up.


Bynum had two bad knees, not one but two knees that were both seriously injured, one after the other, it forced the Lakers to get Pau in 2008 Bynum was out because of those knees, no finals in 2008 for Bynum.

January 2008: Dislocated left kneecap. Missed 46 games and underwent arthroscopic surgery that off season.



Bynum missed 46 games that season ? Bynum didn't play in the 2008 finals advantage Keven Garnett your claiming Bynum against Boston was healthy ? in 2010


Out yet again in 2009 right knee this time torn ligament. 2009 right torn knee ligament wobbling into the playoffs & against Orlando advantage, Orlando advantage in 2010 Boston because Bynum was never the same.


March 2010: Strained left Achilles tendon. Missed 13 games.


April 2010: Right knee hyper extension. Caused a previously diagnosed lateral meniscus tear to go from "very small" to "small." Played through the injury in the 2010 playoffs and underwent arthroscopic surgery in the off season. Missed first 24 games of following season.


April 2011: Right knee hyper extension. Missed one game.

February 2012: Right knee discomfort. Received Synvisc injection. Missed no games.

September 2012: Orthokine treatment on both knees. Discomfort in both knees caused Bynum to miss start of season.

November 2012: Left knee reinjured bowling.

February 2013: Knee pain persists. "I have the most to lose by not playing and I want to get back."

https://www.fearthesword.com/2013/7/15/4525390/nba-free-agency-a-look-at-andrew-bynums-chronic-knee-issues


January 2009: Right medial collateral ligament tear. Missed 32 games. Injury unrelated to the dislocated knee but MCL tear suggested he was "loose-jointed" and "sensitive to contact injuries in the future," DiNubile told the Los Angeles Times.

Keven had the advantage with his big two plus himself and the injuries to Bynum Bynum kept injuring his knees over and over Artest took Bynums place, but wasn't a smart Basketball player so advantage Keven and Keven still lost.

You tell me why Keven Garnett didn't show up in the 2010 NBA finals with those numbers Kobe had ? while Kobe only had one okay game but with 15 rebounds and 23 points while Garnett had only 3 rebounds with 17 points, at least Kobe did his job rebounding and scoring 23 while Keven couldn't rebound ? 3 rebounds by a power forward/ center who's job is to crash the boards, this isn't excepted, especially for an NBA all star player still in his prime and Kobe like Jordan won their series your claiming the other Lakers bailed Kobe out ? he saved them with his rebounds and scoring 23, those are great numbers for anybody else but average according to yourself.


If Keven had 23/15 in game 7 and Boston won, you would be praising those numbers because those numbers are excepted as great numbers especially in the finals playing against the Lakers & Kobe.

But Kobe puts up 23 & 15 and your claiming those are bad numbers ? compared to the so called better player a center power forward who only puts up 17 & 3 ? why didn't Keven show up ? and win that series in game 7 because the Lakers didn't blow them out Boston had the lead but Keven didn't rebound and couldn't score past 17 points when with effort taking over the game keven could've put up 23 and 15 just like Kobe it would've been enough to win the series but Keven didn't show up.

[tpols]

If we view things objectively, KG had GOAT defensive ability coupled with very good versatile offense.

The thing is the NBA is an entertainment league where offense sells so defensive players are cheaper than offensive players. Finding a Kobe level offensive player is dann near impossible. Guys like Rodman, Dray, and Ben Wallace could be found in the second round.

Its harder to be great at offense than it is to be great at defense.

[lakerstekkenn]

If we view things objectively, KG had GOAT defensive ability coupled with very good versatile offense.

The thing is the NBA is an entertainment league where offense sells so defensive players are cheaper than offensive players. Finding a Kobe level offensive player is dann near impossible. Guys like Rodman, Dray, and Ben Wallace could be found in the second round.

Its harder to be great at offense than it is to be great at defense.

Kobe wasn't known for his incredible defense also ? if you say no then your lying to everyone Kobe was praised for his incredible defense all of the time plus his scoring and playing other roles on the court to ignore this is puzzling.

Bith were incredible defense and offensive players but Kobe was better on offense and ball handling plus clutch play plus had accomplished more late in their career's if certain people want to use well Kobe had Shaq, well Keven had his big three and Kobe still beat him with less and won two more rings, so the excuses won't work

[tpols]

Kobe wasn't known for his incredible defense also ? if you say no then your lying to everyone Kobe was praised for his incredible defense all of the time plus his scoring and playing other roles on the court to ignore this is puzzling.

Bith were incredible defense and offensive players but Kobe was better on offense and ball handling plus clutch play plus had accomplished more late in their career's if certain people want to use well Kobe had Shaq, well Keven had his big three and Kobe still beat him with less and won two more rings, so the excuses won't work

Kobe was a great defender in his younger days but still nowhere near Garnett. KG has literal GOAT defensive metrics (and eye test) . A guard will never be better than a big man on defense given equal defensive capability.

[ShawkFactory]

I do agree with that. I just don’t think it’s as dramatic as you’re making out to be. Tim Duncan had a lot more weapons around him to distract a defense. KG didn’t.

With that said I don’t think it’s in KG’s nature to be that dominant of a scorer, particularly down the stretch of games.

That’s also why I said Anthony Davis is a better more evolutionary version of him, because he basically brings the same level of defense and abilities in that regard. While bringing better scoring, and shooting. Especially down the stretch of games.

Would you also agree that Tim Duncan is naturally more of a center than he is a power forward? I rather have Kevin Garnett. I think Tim Duncan is one of the more overrated players in history.

All of his failures are always swept under the rug, because honestly, he’s not as important as people make him out to be. He’s not the greatest power forward of all time, because he wasn’t even a power forward. If you judge him based on his real position, which is center, I take David Robinson within his own franchise over him. Let alone Shaq, Russell, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, etc

So given your argument here, don’t you think it’s egregious to say Kevin Garnett was better than Kobe Bryant? I mean Kobe has four rings where he’s an alpha caliber player. Definitively two of them. And went to three finals definitively as his teams best player.

Agree that he's a center. Disagree with him being overrated.

Those weapons you speak of didn't really come in to play until 2005 or so, by which time he'd already won 2 rings. In 1999 and 2003 the Spurs offense was essentially give the ball to Duncan, if he draws a double be ready for a pass. If he isn't doubled he's scoring. Because he's naturally an unselfish offensive player, docking his own numbers once Parker and Manu started to hit their stride, doesn't mean that he couldn't score 30+ whenever you needed him to.

Having said all of that...no, I don't think that KG was better than Kobe. Although it isn't some ridiculous comp or anything. Both at their peaks were on the same tier.

[lakerstekkenn]

He wasn’t that mobile as a defender even before then. And KG lasted a lot longer having those abilities to defend more versatily.

Duncan guarded Shaq at times when they played and slowed him down so yes Duncan played incredible defense on even Shaq being smaller and thinner, also Shaq played Duncan and Duncan still scored on Shaq even that lucky shot before Fisher's .06 win, to say Duncan was overrated is puzzling nobody says this at all not even myself being a Lakers fan, it's easy to just put down others just because they beat your favorite teams but the truth is the truth Keven nor Duncan are overrated.

Duncan is the greatest power forward ever in Basketball History period he's an complete all around player in college and professional a born leader and winner that's why he kept winning even past prime still putting up incredible numbers against Miami but lost on a mistake by coach Pop, and a rebound boxing out or tap out, it's simple Duncan played incredible like he was possessed.

[lakerstekkenn]

Kobe was a great defender in his younger days but still nowhere near Garnett. KG has literal GOAT defensive metrics (and eye test) . A guard will never be better than a big man on defense given equal defensive capability.

Keven had trouble with Pau ? in his prime 31 years old, so Pau who at times put up better numbers then Keven ? because others guarded hobbled Bynum, so Garnett guards Pau but Pau at times did his thing, when everyone understood he was soft & timid, but everyone gets beat at times including Garnett against Pau.

Game 6 against Phoenix Amare' Stoudemire got physical with him and he all but disappeared, 6 points ? Garnett couldn't do that against Pau ?


2010 NBA Finals: Lakers Big Man Goes ‘Pau’ on Kevin Garnett.... Game One saw Kevin Garnett witness a stellar performance by the 'charmin-man' Pau Gasol.


The writer even says Garnett isn't showing up either, like sometimes Pau doesn't show up.

http://www.digitaldividend.org/nba/2010-nba-finals-lakers-big-man-goes-pau-on-kevin-garnett/

[lakerstekkenn]

What is this world coming to ? now The Great Timothy Theodore Duncan is somehow overrated ? Keven Garnett is somehow better then Kobe ? and James somehow is better then Jordan ? also Kareem is overrated


Kobe has a solid game 23 & 15 rebounds and somehow he's trash going against a super team big three, while Jordan has a bad finals game and he's not all of the sudden trash ? Keven has a okay finals but at times doesn't show up but he's not trash ? James gets destroyed by Dallas and he also has a super team James doesn't show up and somehow now he's trash like Kobe oh wait nobody trashes James and his no show loss to Dirk and Dallas then Kawhi embarrasses James in the finals everyone blames the AC but James isn't considered trash only Kobe ?

:coleman:


What's next ? Wilt wasn't athletic ? Russell wasn't athletic ? Shaq wasn't dominant ?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?384243-Kareem-Abdul-Jabbar-Is-Overrated

what the hell is wrong with everyone ?

[SaintzFury13]

Check Paul and Allens numbers in that series they carried Keven throughout that series there you go again posting mistakes check the game stats please and tell me Allen and Paul were a shell of themselves.

Alright, I'm done with you. I am legit not able to make it past the first lines of your posts because they are so unbelievably stupid.

Allen and Pierce carried Garnett in that series.

Paul Pierce: 18 PPG on 42% shooting from the field.

Ray Allen: 13 PPG on 35% shooting from the field.

These two carried Kevin Garnett, who averaged 15 PPG on 50% shooting.

You are an absolute dumb****. Do not waste my time any further if all you are going to do is make long posts that start out with unbelievable stupid shit. I can deal with the morons like 3ball and Spurs m8 who make short posts quick and to the point. I'm not going to read an entire essay that starts out with something as idiotic as what they post on a regular basis.

Oh, and yes, they are in fact an absolute shell of their former selves. Pierce and Allen in their prime would be putting up far better numbers than that.

[kennygriffin]

I stopped reading after this.

The only reason Kobe accomplished more is because Garnett was injured in 2009 and both him and Allen/Pierce were all on a clear decline in 2010. And even then they still almost managed to beat LA, something that would have happened had it not been for Artest and Pau bailing Kobe out of what would have been the biggest choke job in a game 7 in NBA history had the Lakers lost that game. Luckily for him, they didn't. If it wasn't for these factors, factors that you openly disregarded in the very beginning of this post, KG would be 3-0 vs Bryant in the NBA finals and Kobe would have nothing to show for his post-Shaq career.

Don't make a long post like this if you're going to start it out with such an incredibly idiotic statement.



So being better than someone in multiple categories doesn't matter all of a sudden? As long as Kobe is better than Garnett in scoring, that suddenly negates all of the other things Garnett was clearly superior in? What kind of brain dead logic is that?

being more all around doesn't mean you can carry a team. KG was like tim duncan. he didn't want the scoring load/pressure to carry the offense every night.

being more all around just means you do more things well. but being all time great at 1 or 2 things is infinitely more valuable than being just good at a lot of things

KG's bark was louder than his bite. thats why whenever someone got in his face he backed down

[1987_Lakers]

Glad to see people in this thread open their eyes and realize Kobe probably wasn't even better than KG.

[kennygriffin]

Glad to see people in this thread open their eyes and realize Kobe probably wasn't even better than KG.

so you think anyone in this thread came in thinking kobe was better and left thinking kg was better

how old are you again

[lakerstekkenn]

Alright, I'm done with you. I am legit not able to make it past the first lines of your posts because they are so unbelievably stupid.

Allen and Pierce carried Garnett in that series.

Paul Pierce: 18 PPG on 42% shooting from the field.

Ray Allen: 13 PPG on 35% shooting from the field.

These two carried Kevin Garnett, who averaged 15 PPG on 50% shooting.

You are an absolute dumb****. Do not waste my time any further if all you are going to do is make long posts that start out with unbelievable stupid shit. I can deal with the morons like 3ball and Spurs m8 who make short posts quick and to the point. I'm not going to read an entire essay that starts out with something as idiotic as what they post on a regular basis.

Oh, and yes, they are in fact an absolute shell of their former selves. Pierce and Allen in their prime would be putting up far better numbers than that.


Game 1

Check the stats again pleas, you believe Keven shooting 50% in game one with only 16 points is great stats ? because he shot 50% ? with only 4 rebounds ? 1 assist 1 block and two steals ?

You do understand rebounds matter ? blocks matter ? & defense matters right ? :confusedshrug:

He's guarding Pau right ?

Game 1

Pau had 23 points 14 total rebounds 3 assist 1 steal and 3 blocks with Keven guarding him ? and you have the nerve to insult my intelligence ?

Next game

Game 6

Garnett shot 50% from the field with only 12 points 6 total rebounds 0 blocks 1 steal 3 assist ? so according to you those are incredible numbers because Keven shot 50% ? :facepalm

Pau had 17 points 13 rebounds 9 assist 1 steal 3 blocks Pau almost had a triple double and Keven was guarding him.

Next game 7

Game 7

Keven had 17 points shooting 8 of 13 good percentage but other stats also matter if he's shooting so good why stop ? Keven has 3 rebounds 2 assist & 4 blocks in game 7


Pau had 19 points 18 rebounds 4 assist 2 blocks being guarded by Keven ?

Pau outplayed Keven throughout the series especially rebounding and your claiming Kobe was terrible in game 7 ? just because he scored 23 points 15 rebounds 2 assist and 1 steal ? one okay decent game according to his standards ? :oldlol:


So if I score 12 points at 50% shooting and don't rebound nor play defense it's okay if I lose the game without putting up quality effort being an all star player at least I shot well. :banghead:

That trick won't work with me :no:

[Axe]

Glad to see people in this thread open their eyes and realize Kobe probably wasn't even better than KG.
Mamba stans are triggered.

[SaintzFury13]

being more all around doesn't mean you can carry a team. KG was like tim duncan. he didn't want the scoring load/pressure to carry the offense every night.

Kobe couldn't carry a team any better than KG did. He didn't make it past the first round of the playoffs until he got Pau Gasol. KG never needed anything like that to make it that far. Yes, being more all around does not mean you can carry a team, but KG was truly elite when it came to all around play. There wasn't a single thing he wasn't at least good at.


being more all around just means you do more things well. but being all time great at 1 or 2 things is infinitely more valuable than being just good at a lot of things

That's fine, I'll still take someone who was one of the all time greats on one end of the floor, elite at the other and great in other areas of the game than a guy who was elite on both ends of the floor and decent at best in other areas.


KG's bark was louder than his bite. thats why whenever someone got in his face he backed down

That's not entirely true. One time he shit talked this guy named Michael Jordan and ate shit for it.

[kennygriffin]

Kobe couldn't carry a team any better than KG did. He didn't make it past the first round of the playoffs until he got Pau Gasol. KG never needed anything like that to make it that far. Yes, being more all around does not mean you can carry a team, but KG was truly elite when it came to all around play. There wasn't a single thing he wasn't at least good at.



That's fine, I'll still take someone who was one of the all time greats on one end of the floor, elite at the other and great in other areas of the game than a guy who was elite on both ends of the floor and decent at best in other areas.



That's not entirely true. One time he shit talked this guy named Michael Jordan and ate shit for it.




do you even remember my thread where i listed the all time sidekick scoring averages in the finals and both of gasols were near the very bottom only a fraction ahead of 2 of scottie pippens runs as a kickstand lmao


wtf are you smoking... kobe proved all he needed was a boarderline bench warming allstar 18ppg 0-12 as leader soft skinny big man that shot 15 footers off of screens lmao... and after that everyone was out of the nba after a year or 2 that was on his 09 and 10 title teams

FOH

[SaintzFury13]

do you even remember my thread where i listed the all time sidekick scoring averages in the finals and both of gasols were near the very bottom only a fraction ahead of 2 of scottie pippens runs as a kickstand lmao

First off, I've never even seen such a thread. I probably wasn't even a member at that point.

Second, the Lakers played a slowed down, more calculated style of play. Even Kobe score more below what his typical standards were compared to the past few seasons once Pau arrived. What Pau brought to the table was more than just a legit second scoring option. He was also a skilled 7 footer who helped lock down the paint with Bynum and could rebound at an elite level while playing good defense.


wtf are you smoking... kobe proved all he needed was a boarderline bench warming allstar 18ppg 0-12 as leader soft skinny big man that shot 15 footers off of screens lmao... and after that everyone was out of the nba after a year or 2 that was on his 09 and 10 title teams

18 PPG for the second option during that time period was more than enough for any top 5 player in the NBA to win a championship. Tim Duncan won two titles during that time period with guys who averaged far less than that. Dwayne Wade did it with his second best player averaging 18 points in the playoffs. Hell, his (Shaq) finals averages were 13 PPG and 10.2 RPG. You know how much LeBron would have loved to have had someone who could reliably give him 18 PPG for an entire playoff run when he was in Cleveland?

People tend to forget that the 2000s were a lot more slow paced and defensive minded. 18 PPG is obviously not a whole lot for your second option on offense in this day and age, but back then that was a god send.

[kennygriffin]

First off, I've never even seen such a thread. I probably wasn't even a member at that point.

Second, the Lakers played a slowed down, more calculated style of play. Even Kobe score more below what his typical standards were compared to the past few seasons once Pau arrived. What Pau brought to the table was more than just a legit second scoring option. He was also a skilled 7 footer who helped lock down the paint with Bynum and could rebound at an elite level while playing good defense.



18 PPG for the second option during that time period was more than enough for any top 5 player in the NBA to win a championship. Tim Duncan won two titles during that time period with guys who averaged far less than that. Dwayne Wade did it with his second best player averaging 18 points in the playoffs. Hell, his (Shaq) finals averages were 13 PPG and 10.2 RPG. You know how much LeBron would have loved to have had someone who could reliably give him 18 PPG for an entire playoff run when he was in Cleveland?

People tend to forget that the 2000s were a lot more slow paced and defensive minded. 18 PPG is obviously not a whole lot for your second option on offense in this day and age, but back then that was a god send.

gasol is 0-16 as leader in the playoffs

you lose lol

[lakerstekkenn]

Kobe couldn't carry a team any better than KG did. He didn't make it past the first round of the playoffs until he got Pau Gasol. KG never needed anything like that to make it that far. Yes, being more all around does not mean you can carry a team, but KG was truly elite when it came to all around play. There wasn't a single thing he wasn't at least good at.



That's fine, I'll still take someone who was one of the all time greats on one end of the floor, elite at the other and great in other areas of the game than a guy who was elite on both ends of the floor and decent at best in other areas.



That's not entirely true. One time he shit talked this guy named Michael Jordan and ate shit for it.


The Lakers had the one of the best records in the NBA and Bynum was balling until he got injured they were forced to get Pau because of Bynum's injury, so your wrong.

So yes Kobe would've made it to the finals still without Pau, because Bynum wasn't playing in the playoffs that year he was out. Kobe didn't need Pau to get past the first round, he had enough.

If Kobe had a 100% healthy Bynum who was more skilled then Pau and was bigger and stronger and was staring to score more Kobe would've beaten Boston, with Bynum instead of Pau, because Bynum wouldn't of played soft & timid. he would've stopped Boston's from catching the Lakers after being blown out, Bynum and Kobe would've kept that lead, but Kobe and Pau couldn't, when the bench went cold.


Gasol played timid and soft against Keven but a healthyt Bynum would've destroyed Boston inside.

[lakerstekkenn]

Kobe couldn't carry a team any better than KG did. He didn't make it past the first round of the playoffs until he got Pau Gasol. KG never needed anything like that to make it that far. Yes, being more all around does not mean you can carry a team, but KG was truly elite when it came to all around play. There wasn't a single thing he wasn't at least good at.



That's fine, I'll still take someone who was one of the all time greats on one end of the floor, elite at the other and great in other areas of the game than a guy who was elite on both ends of the floor and decent at best in other areas.



That's not entirely true. One time he shit talked this guy named Michael Jordan and ate shit for it.




Keven had a good enough team to beat the Lakers in 2004 but couldn't get past them. no excuses.



Kobe had the a good enough team in 2008 & made it to the finals almost beating the big three, no excuses, that's what you would tell me.



Kobe's teammates weren't scores in 2008-20010 but played good defense against everyone, especially against the Big Three, it's just they couldn't score enough in 2008 plus Boston's better defensive play, but still no excuses they had enough.

But when they faced them again in 2010, then the Lakers had a hurt wobbling Bynum and crazy Artest who wasn't a smart Basketball player plus others, then they finally beat Boston, with less talent then Boston, but it was still enough, to win.




Keven had the better team twice but only won 1 ring, he had enough talent & even better talent, then Kobe.

Keven had enough talent in 1999 but lost no excuses & Keven had enough in 2004 to beat the Lakers and lost, no excuses & Keven had enough talent around him in the Big Three super team but lost in 2010 no excuses.




First round 1999 playoffs Minnesota had enough talent to beat the Spurs check the box scores, they are close almost even, it was defense that lost that series to The Spurs and Minnesota was a bad road team, Keven had enough talent, to win that series in three games.


Keven in 1999 playoffs had enough talent to beat The Spurs.
compared to Kobe's teams in 2008-20010 against Boston.


Minnesota was a bad road team in that short season 7-18 on the road & 18-7 at home, but no excuses Keven had a good enough team to win the NBA title that year, but lost, no excuses to why he couldn't win early in his career like Kobe and in 2004 plus 2010 & after he had enough talent to win multiple rings.


Their overall talents are sometimes better or close so what's the difference ?

You can't blame Keven's loses because the Lakers had Shaq and Kobe, when Keven had his super squad the big three and got 1 but lost 1 to a inferior team the Lakers, so no excuses.


Spurs vs Minnesota 1999 stats irst round playoffs no excuses.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199905090SAS.html


NO EXCUSES.

[HoopsNY]

Glad to see people in this thread open their eyes and realize Kobe probably wasn't even better than KG.

You don't honestly believe this, do you?

[HoopsNY]

Yeah, honestly, KG was better. He's never going to rank above Kobe on the all time lists due to Kobe's greater accomplishments, but I wouldn't hesitate to put KG above Kobe if we are talking strictly about their talent and impact on the game.

You can't possibly believe this? KG disappeared in the playoffs when it mattered the most in his first 7 seasons. 2004 he gets some help and that is the one season that he showed up in big spots, but then proceeds to miss the playoffs all together 3 seasons in a row until he forms a super-team with Pierce and Allen in 2007-08.

Say what you will about Kobe, but when both KG and Kobe had depleted teams in 2005, 2006, and 2007, Kobe took his team to the playoffs 2 out of the 3 years. KG missed the playoffs ALL three seasons.

[SouBeachTalents]

You can't possibly believe this? KG disappeared in the playoffs when it mattered the most in his first 7 seasons. 2004 he gets some help and that is the one season that he showed up in big spots, but then proceeds to miss the playoffs all together 3 seasons in a row until he forms a super-team with Pierce and Allen in 2007-08.

Say what you will about Kobe, but when both KG and Kobe had depleted teams in 2005, 2006, and 2007, Kobe took his team to the playoffs 2 out of the 3 years. KG missed the playoffs ALL three seasons.
By '06 though Kobe was clearly better than KG. In fairness to him KG did lead mediocre rosters to the playoffs in the west every year from '97-'03, even winning 50 games 3 times. But I agree, his playoff scoring left a lot to be desired for most of that run

[SaintzFury13]

gasol is 0-16 as leader in the playoffs

you lose lol

You're gonna have to do a lot better than that. That kind of logic might work on retards like 3Ball but for most people with a brain, this argument is not only an obvious cop out, but does nothing to prove the point you're trying to make.

Either try to come up with something constructive or decent, or admit you're wrong.

[kennygriffin]

You're gonna have to do a lot better than that. That kind of logic might work on retards like 3Ball but for most people with a brain, this argument is not only an obvious cop out, but does nothing to prove the point you're trying to make.

Either try to come up with something constructive or decent, or admit you're wrong.

gasol had one bench warming allstar appearance in 7 years before kobe carried him to his first playoff victory. you're a moron lol

[SaintzFury13]

You can't possibly believe this? KG disappeared in the playoffs when it mattered the most in his first 7 seasons. 2004 he gets some help and that is the one season that he showed up in big spots

He averaged 27 PPG in the playoffs the season prior to 04, but you're saying he showed up in that one but not the one before?

I'm staring to seriously wonder how many of you actually watched basketball back then.


but then proceeds to miss the playoffs all together 3 seasons in a row until he forms a super-team with Pierce and Allen in 2007-08.

His team was far more depleted than Kobe's was at that point. At least Kobe had some decent defenders to play with.


Say what you will about Kobe, but when both KG and Kobe had depleted teams in 2005, 2006, and 2007, Kobe took his team to the playoffs 2 out of the 3 years. KG missed the playoffs ALL three seasons.

Oscar Robertson missed the playoffs for four straight years in his prime. I guess going by your logic, Robertson can't even be considered a top 30 player, right?

Also, you're going off of years where it became clear that Kobe was the better player at that point than KG was. I don't think anyone is disputing that 2005 and on, Kobe was the superior talent.

[SaintzFury13]

gasol had one bench warming allstar appearance in 7 years before kobe carried him to his first playoff victory. you're a moron lol

What does that have to do with how valuable of a second option teammate Gasol was for Kobe you dumbshit?

[SaintzFury13]

Keven had a good enough team to beat the Lakers in 2004 but couldn't get past them. no excuses.

The second best player on his team didn't even play in that series, nor did their back up PG.

Stop responding to me. I'm not going to waste my time reading your idiotic posts.

[HoopsNY]

By '06 though Kobe was clearly better than KG. In fairness to him KG did lead mediocre rosters to the playoffs in the west every year from '97-'03, even winning 50 games 3 times. But I agree, his playoff scoring left a lot to be desired for most of that run

I don't think those rosters were that mediocre. Marbury was a solid PG, as was Brandon. Guys like Smith were good role players and so was Szczerbiak.

For example, 2001-02 Wally made the AS team and put up 19 PPG on 51/46/84 splits. Not to mention that team had both Brandon and Billups. Googs was an All-Star in 1997 and between 1997 and 1998, was a 20/9 player on high efficiency.

With guys like Gugliotta, Marbury, Brandon, Billups, Smith, Hudson and eventually Cassell and Spreewell, how "mediocre" were his teams, really? And how do those rosters compare to guys like Odom, Mihm, Smush, and Kwame Brown?

I say all of this from an honest place. I was a huge KG fan back then. The fact is, a player who cannot dominate the 4th quarter and overtimes as a go to guy cannot be better than a player who was the exact opposite. Kobe was an assassin, KG simply wasn't.

[kennygriffin]

What does that have to do with how valuable of a second option teammate Gasol was for Kobe you dumbshit?

1 reserve allstar spot in 7 years and a career 0-16 playoff record as lead dog means kobe literally turned him from a flash in the pan shareef abdur Rahim type career into a hall of fame career

kobe needed the bare minimum

less than a pippen. and he wasn't much either but at least he was elite on both ends.

a soft mid range jump shooting big man isnt anything special

[HoopsNY]

He averaged 27 PPG in the playoffs the season prior to 04, but you're saying he showed up in that one but not the one before?

KG was the master of empty stats. I posted about this in another post because it's very easy to look at the overall body of work, statistically, and think "wow, KG was really doing his thing, so it must have been his teammates who were the problem." The reality is that it was somewhere in between. Here's what I mentioned in another post.

"The problem is that numbers like this disregard what he was doing when he was most needed. Take a look at deciding games for KG before 2004, and particularly his production in the 4th quarters.

I included some turnover numbers because KG's assist totals sometimes gets overrated in the grand scheme of things, especially when at times, he was turning the ball over almost as much as he was scoring in the 4th quarter.

1997 Game 3 vs. Houston: 17 points, 7-16 FGs (44%) | 3 points, 1-3 FGs (33%), 1 TO

1998 Game 5 vs. Seattle: 7 points, 3-11 FGs (27%) 10 TOs | 0 points, 0-3 FGs (0%), 1 TO

1999 Game 4 vs. San Antonio: 20 points, 6-20 FGs (30%) | 9 points, 3-8 FGs (37%)

2000 Game 4 vs. Portland: 17 points, 5-20 FGs (20%) | 4 points, 1-7 FGs (14%)

2001 Game 4 vs. San Antonio: 19 points, 6-13 FGs (46%) | 2 points, 1-2 FGs (50%)

2002 Game 3 vs. Dallas: 22 points, 9-19 FGs (47%) 6 TOs | 3 points, 1-5 FGs (20%)

2003 Game 6 vs Los Angeles: 18 points, 9-21 FGs (42%) 3 TOs | 4 points, 2-5 FGs (40%) 2 TOs

KG as a rookie missed the playoffs, then got bounced in the 1st round 7 seasons in a row where not only did he fail miserably in deciding games and played horribly in 4th quarters, but he found himself being outplayed by teammates like Troy Hudson, Dean Garrett, Anthony Peeler, and Wally Szczerbiak. (Not exactly esteemed company).

Then he misses the playoffs every year until the Celtics formed a super-team with him, Pierce, and Allen. I loved KG as a player, but he just wasn't THAT guy."


I'm staring to seriously wonder how many of you actually watched basketball back then.


I'm seriously wondering that about you as well. But I won't get into trading ad hominem with you. People have different perspectives. At least analyze their reasoning first before you race to conclusions.



His team was far more depleted than Kobe's was at that point. At least Kobe had some decent defenders to play with.


I disagree. For one, they traded Wally mid-season in 2005-06, but even with him, they were just a 19-21 team. And even then, they added Rickey Davis in the trade.


Oscar Robertson missed the playoffs for four straight years in his prime. I guess going by your logic, Robertson can't even be considered a top 30 player, right?


One - I never said KG is not a top 30 player.

Two - You're comparing apples to oranges, as the league had far fewer teams and Oscar was competing with the Sixers and Celtics. Not to mention, there weren't as many playoff rounds, so even fewer teams made the playoffs.


Also, you're going off of years where it became clear that Kobe was the better player at that point than KG was. I don't think anyone is disputing that 2005 and on, Kobe was the superior talent.

If you're isolating 2003-04 KG vs. 2003-04 Kobe, then yea, I agree. If that's the debate then I concede to your point.

[HoopsNY]

1 reserve allstar spot in 7 years and a career 0-16 playoff record as lead dog means kobe literally turned him from a flash in the pan shareef abdur Rahim type career into a hall of fame career

kobe needed the bare minimum

less than a pippen. and he wasn't much either but at least he was elite on both ends.

a soft mid range jump shooting big man isnt anything special

There is truth to this. Gasol had no All-NBA selections, a terrible playoff record, and just one all-star appearance prior to joining Kobe.

Here's another fact that Kobe haters don't like to admit, LA was 35-20 without Gasol in 2007-08, a near 53 win pace. LA won 57 games that year. Obviously adding Pau helped, but Kobe had that team on a 50+ win pace regardless of his addition.

And in their previous 29 games before adding Pau, LA was 21-8. Kobe was steamrolling the Lakers through a conference where, eventually, all 8 teams won 50 games.

And their record without Pau between 2008-10? 47-26 (54 win pace)

KG is nowhere near Kobe, sorry.