Cade Cunningham lacks the quickness and physical ability to have an All NBA career

[k0kakw0rld]

Isn't he supposed to be the starting PG? Why is Killian Hayes doing out there playing point? :biggums:

He plays at his own pace that's fine. However, I do see him struggling against bigger defenders in the real league. It's just one game but so far

Jalen Green > Scottie Barnes > Cade Cunningham

12 points 6 rebounds 2 assists (5-17 FG; 5 TOs)

[bison]

First game overreactions. Gotta love them.

[Kblaze8855]

Swear it feels like 90% of topics like this end up bumped 4 years later for a laugh.

[Axe]

Swear it feels like 90% of topics like this end up bumped 4 years later for a laugh.
Like those guys who said giannis was a fraud.

[CTbasketball92]

It's WAYYYYYY too early to draw clearcut career projections for any of these guys. It' just one game.

That said, I was never high on Cade. He was great in college, but he scored only at a "good" rate with pretty good but not spectacular efficiency (57 TS%) and he averaged more turnovers than assists. But more than anything, he lacks elite, or even above burst off the dribble. When you can't blow by guys you are SCREWED barring a couple of things. I remember I was really high on D’Angelo Russell until I saw his first summer league game. As soon as he brought the ball up the court, he passed the ball lol. I could just see he had no confidence in his ability to get by his defender, and that screwed him for years, and even now it prevents him from being a true all-star. Cade will be a good player I'm pretty sure, but I'm very curious to see how his lack of burst affects things.

[HaNdLe ThE RoCk]

Swear it feels like 90% of topics like this end up bumped 4 years later for a laugh.

Lol seriously. This will be another one

[Smoke117]

I don't watch college ball, but when I looked up this cat I wasn't impressed one bit.

[3ba11]

I don't watch college ball, but when I looked up this cat I wasn't impressed one bit.


3ball was the first to say Cade was vastly overrated - you guys are late as usual:



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496186-OKC-reportedly-offers-Shai-and-the-6-to-Detroit-for-the-1-Detroit-declines&p=14404122&viewfull=1#post14404122
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495762-A-couple-predictions-Bucks-win-next-2-games-amp-Cade-C-won-t-be-anywhere-near-Luka


another one for 3ball...

[taabhimself]

Swear it feels like 90% of topics like this end up bumped 4 years later for a laugh.

out here doin the lord's work

[Real Men Wear Green]

Swear it feels like 90% of topics like this end up bumped 4 years later for a laugh.

I am figuring he will be the next superstar just because of the poster bashing him. I know little about Cunningham but have faith in OP being wrong.

[taabhimself]

I am figuring he will be the next superstar just because of the poster bashing him. I know little about Cunningham but have faith in OP being wrong.

you and i know both know ISH is the reverse barometer of basketball talent

[Bronbron23]

Green gonna be better

[ImKobe]

Trae Young had the worst Summer League of all-time and turned out just fine, Adam Morrison was a god, let's not overreact please.

[3ba11]

Trae Young had the worst Summer League of all-time and turned out just fine, Adam Morrison was a god, let's not overreact please.


grant hill and penny were posterizing everyone - completely different players from cade - cade is more like kyle anderson

[3ba11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HebudDUQOw

[3ba11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HebudDUQOw


Compare to Doncic bullying PJ Tucker like he's a child:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NODqd15W5W0&t=02m03s


Cade ain't cornfed like that

[HBK_Kliq_2]

grant hill and penny were posterizing everyone - completely different players from cade - cade is more like kyle anderson

kyle anderson :roll: :roll:

That would be the worst #1 draft pick ever.

[Sportal]

kyle anderson :roll: :roll:

That would be the worst #1 draft pick ever.

Anthony Bennett...?

[ShawkFactory]

Anthony Bennett...?

There’s several :lol

Cade has a incredible knack for the game. He can control the pace as well as anyone I’ve seen at that age and seems to truly elevate those around him.

I think he’ll be just fine

[tontoz]

Given the track record of OP and 3ball it probably won't take 4 years for this to be a comical bump.

[Sportal]

There’s several :lol

Cade has a incredible knack for the game. He can control the pace as well as anyone I’ve seen at that age and seems to truly elevate those around him.

I think he’ll be just fine

He does seem like a player in which the game moves slow for him. We have been spoiled for PGs in this league in the last 13 years or so. The main combination of attributes that don't really win games that matter(playoffs), is a huge amount of athleticism, without a decent basketball IQ, see Westbrook/LaVine for example. Or, shoot ability coupled with low basketball IQ, see Kyrie/Isaiah Thomas. He seems like he understands the game of basketball and what it takes to be successful, he doesn't have the athleticism, so for him to be successful, he'll have to have a really good shot...

Is a Trae Young comparison out of the question? Is Trae a much better shooter of the ball? A much better passer?

[ShawkFactory]

He does seem like a player in which the game moves slow for him. We have been spoiled for PGs in this league in the last 13 years or so. The main combination of attributes that don't really win games that matter(playoffs), is a huge amount of athleticism, without a decent basketball IQ, see Westbrook/LaVine for example. Or, shoot ability coupled with low basketball IQ, see Kyrie/Isaiah Thomas. He seems like he understands the game of basketball and what it takes to be successful, he doesn't have the athleticism, so for him to be successful, he'll have to have a really good shot...

Is a Trae Young comparison out of the question? Is Trae a much better shooter of the ball? A much better passer?

Trae is quicker off the dribble and is definitely a better passer.

Cade is a better finisher (obviously) and just in general seems to make the right play at the right time, whereas Trae can still be quite careless with his decision making. I'm not really sure of a proper comparison for him. To me he seems like a guard version of Tim Duncan, if that makes sense.

[90sgoat]

There's never going to be an american born superstar again.

They just don't have the elite skills anymore. Don't have the insane athleticism really either, because so many former players children are entering the league.

Your best bet is that Zion can be carried and helped by the league to become a PF Lebron.

[taabhimself]

if you watched Rockets Pistons last night and think that Cade is not the future number one and leader on a championship team, you're blind. his IQ, maturity, pacing, leadership, etc. cannot be taught.

[Basketball r Us]

Bust written all over this pick. Not because he will not be good, but a bust for getting picked #1.

[taabhimself]

Bust written all over this pick. Not because he will not be good, but a bust for getting picked #1.

this take is child-like in quality. Cade and Suggs will be the best out of this draft, book it. Green will score 30+ppg but those two will be elevating their team and winning titles.

[3ba11]

this take is child-like in quality. Cade and Suggs will be the best out of this draft, book it. Green will score 30+ppg but those two will be elevating their team and winning titles.


ball-dominators need super-teams to win... assassin scorers don't

and cade isn't even a good ball-dominator - he's literally nothing compared to Luka - cade's best use might be spot-up shooter when it's all said and done.

[Sportal]

if you watched Rockets Pistons last night and think that Cade is not the future number one and leader on a championship team, you're blind. his IQ, maturity, pacing, leadership, etc. cannot be taught.

Exactly. Whereas you can get better at shooting, improve your body etc.

[taabhimself]

ball-dominators need super-teams to win... assassin scorers don't
/8709
and cade isn't even a good ball-dominator - he's literally nothing compared to Luka - cade's best use might be spot-up shooter when it's all said and done.

stop hyphenating/making up random-phrases like assassin scorers. wtf are you talking about? what "assassin-scorers" have won championships on their own? at the end of the day, Green will score lots of points and shoot lots of free throws for the Rockets. Cartier Cade lead the Pistons to chips. i'm telling you, Troy Weaver has dinner cooking in Detroit.

[3ba11]

stop hyphenating/making up random-phrases like assassin scorers. wtf are you talking about? what "assassin-scorers" have won championships on their own? at the end of the day, Green will score lots of points and shoot lots of free throws for the Rockets. Cartier Cade lead the Pistons to chips. i'm telling you, Troy Weaver has dinner cooking in Detroit.


I think Luka is a lot more athletic than Cade

And assassin scorers are kobe, mj, bird, kawhi, curry - aka guys that are pure scorers (don't need to dominate the ball) - guys that don't dominate the ball can play a better brand of team ball (ball movement) and therefore need less help.

[RRR3]

Snivelball :roll: :roll: :roll:

[3ba11]

Snivelball :roll: :roll: :roll:


The amount of times I've been right, you must be about ready to kill yourself if I'm right again on this one

[k0kakw0rld]

Like those guys who said Giannis was a fraud.
Winning a championship he had no business winning, if all teams were healthy, won't change the fact that his game is suspect.

[ImKobe]

I think Luka is a lot more athletic than Cade

And assassin scorers are kobe, mj, bird, kawhi, curry - aka guys that are pure scorers (don't need to dominate the ball) - guys that don't dominate the ball can play a better brand of team ball (ball movement) and therefore need less help.

Facts. That doesn't mean Cade won't be a great player though, he can work on his athletic ability & his off-ball game. Detroit's perfect for him as he can make all the mistakes and dominate the ball without having any pressure on him to win right away. Plenty of us made the same kind of arguments for Trae Young's ball-dominant style of play but it can win in today's NBA with enough floor spacing around that type of a player & some luck in the POs.

[ralph_i_el]

One of the big things that stands out about Cade is that he plays good defense already.

[taabhimself]

I think Luka is a lot more athletic than Cade

And assassin scorers are kobe, mj, bird, kawhi, curry - aka guys that are pure scorers (don't need to dominate the ball) - guys that don't dominate the ball can play a better brand of team ball (ball movement) and therefore need less help.

imagine calling Kobe and MJ "not ball dominant." lol. please stop talking.

[3ba11]

Facts. That doesn't mean Cade won't be a great player though, he can work on his athletic ability & his off-ball game. Detroit's perfect for him as he can make all the mistakes and dominate the ball without having any pressure on him to win right away. Plenty of us made the same kind of arguments for Trae Young's ball-dominant style of play but it can win in today's NBA with enough floor spacing around that type of a player & some luck in the POs.


when did it win?

ball-dominance requires super-teams to win

[3ba11]

imagine calling Kobe and MJ "not ball dominant." lol. please stop talking.


you obviously don't know anything about the game - they weren't ball-dominant and this is common knowledge - they were OFF-guards that played in the triangle (no point guard role in the triangle)

and the stats (high assisted rates) prove their lack of ball-dominance... That's why they could win with high scoring and ball-dominators can't - MJ/Kobe's high scoring was partially assisted, which elevates teammates and allows a ball-movement brand, while ball-dominators' high scoring isn't assisted and turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which reduces teammates and brand (and therefore can't win)

[taabhimself]

you obviously don't know anything about the game - they weren't ball-dominant and this is common knowledge - they were OFF-guards that played in the triangle (no point guard role in the triangle)

and the stats (high assisted rates) prove their lack of ball-dominance... That's why they could win with high scoring and ball-dominators can't - MJ/Kobe's high scoring was partially assisted, which elevates teammates and allows a ball-movement brand, while ball-dominators' high scoring isn't assisted and turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which reduces teammates and brand (and therefore can't win)

lol bro go look up Kobe's isolation frequency then come back and post it.

[3ba11]

lol bro go look up Kobe's isolation frequency then come back and post it.


Isolations don't necessarily equal ball-domination.

This is an iso:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-18-2019/KDrt5G.gif


One of the primary reasons Jordan and Kobe are the goats is because they possessed the skill to isolate QUICKLY in and get quick shots off in spots that others couldn't..

their quick-iso ability allowed them to score big amounts without disrupting ball movement or lowering brand of ball..

[taabhimself]

Isolations don't necessarily equal ball-domination.

This is an iso:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-18-2019/KDrt5G.gif


One of the primary reasons Jordan and Kobe are the goats is because they possessed the skill to isolate QUICKLY in and get quick shots off in spots that others couldn't..

their quick-iso ability allowed them to score big amounts without disrupting ball movement or lowering brand of ball..

lol post them iso stats bub.

OK if iso frequency doesn't do it for you, go ahead and post Kobe's average time of possession.

[taabhimself]

i love me some Kobe, but i just can't get over thinking Kobe was not ball dominant. lol. as if Smush Parker era Kobe was scoring on these quick iso hyper efficient plays. you need to go to bed.

[3ba11]

lol post them iso stats bub.

OK if iso frequency doesn't do it for you, go ahead and post Kobe's average time of possession.


Unfortunately, we don't have time of possession stats before 2014... But we know that Lebron set the record for time of possession with 12.0 minutes per game in various playoffs...

Go to any playground in America and the playground king will be a ball-dominator - it's the easiest way to play and not "genius" at all.. it's actually a dumb wa to play that reduces teammates and brand, which is why ball-dominators need more help to win (they need super-teams)

[taabhimself]

Unfortunately, we don't have time of possession stats before 2014... But we know that Lebron set the record for time of possession with 12.0 minutes per game in various playoffs...

Go to any playground in America and the playground king will be a ball-dominator - it's the easiest way to play and not "genius" at all.. it's actually a dumb wa to play that reduces teammates and brand, which is why ball-dominators need more help to win (they need super-teams)

it can work fine with a good offensive big man as a sidekick and good 3 and D guys in the supporting cast.

[ImKobe]

i love me some Kobe, but i just can't get over thinking Kobe was not ball dominant. lol. as if Smush Parker era Kobe was scoring on these quick iso hyper efficient plays. you need to go to bed.

That's a boring argument though. Kobe had to be dominant in the mid-2000s when he had a horrible supporting cast. They still ran the triangle though with Odom & Smush facilitating a lot of it, it's just that the offense revolved more around getting Kobe open looks as he was by far the most effective scorer on their team and needed him to take over games in order to come back or win them at the end.


when did it win?

ball-dominance requires super-teams to win

Making the Conference Finals by beating the #1 seed with one of the MVP candidates (albeit not 100% but still dominant) in their Conference is pretty damn great for a 3rd year player who a lot of people wrote off as just a ball-dominant stat chaser though. Trae proved he could share the ball when needed, even though he dominated the heck out of it at times, but he knew when to take over games & when to go to his teammates. Who knows how the Conference Finals play out if he doesn't get injured, I still think the Bucks win in 7 games but Trae definitely proved himself in these POs.

[taabhimself]

That's a boring argument though. Kobe had to be dominant in the mid-2000s when he had a horrible supporting cast. They still ran the triangle though with Odom & Smush facilitating a lot of it, it's just that the offense revolved more around getting Kobe open looks as he was by far the most effective scorer on their team and needed him to take over games in order to come back or win them at the end.

sure, fine. but he was undeniably ball-dominant before Smush, during Smush, and after Smush, just less so during the later championship years. the idea of Kobe/MJ not being ball-dominant is silly.

[ImKobe]

sure, fine. but he was undeniably ball-dominant before Smush, during Smush, and after Smush, just less so during the later championship years. the idea of Kobe/MJ not being ball-dominant is silly.

But they played within a system, they weren't constantly handling the ball on the level of Lebron/Trae/Luka/Harden by dominating the time of possession so that it either results in them getting the assist or the shot on basically every possession that they're on the court for. Kobe and MJ would dominate the ball at the end of games when they needed to and got criticized for it in various parts of their careers when that didn't work out but it was never on that level, and they did not do it as frequently, at least not when they had a chance to win the championship. They put up huge scoring numbers but a lot of it was them getting to their spots and having someone give them the ball. If you look at the assisted shots stat, Kobe's and MJ's are higher than the other guys I mentioned because their teams moved the ball around more.

You can look up the assisted FG numbers. Jordan was at 50% on 2s his last 2 yrs in Chicago with 75% of his 3s being assisted as well. Lebron's always been in the lower 30s and as low as 23% on his assisted 2s last year and his 3s are mostly unassisted as well, which further shows his ball-dominance and the lack of ball movement on his teams. Doncic takes this to a whole 'nother level though. Last year, only 9.5% of his 2s and 23.4% of his 3s were assisted. Trae's isn't much better either.

[taabhimself]

But they played within a system, they weren't constantly handling the ball on the level of Lebron/Trae/Luka/Harden by dominating the time of possession so that it either results in them getting the assist or the shot on basically every possession that they're on the court for. Kobe and MJ would dominate the ball at the end of games when they needed to and got criticized for it in various parts of their careers when that didn't work out but it was never on that level, and they did not do it as frequently, at least not when they had a chance to win the championship. They put up huge scoring numbers but a lot of it was them getting to their spots and having someone give them the ball. If you look at the assisted shots stat, Kobe's and MJ's are higher than the other guys I mentioned because their teams moved the ball around more.

You can look up the assisted FG numbers. Jordan was at 50% on 2s his last 2 yrs in Chicago with 75% of his 3s being assisted as well. Lebron's always been in the lower 30s and as low as 23% on his assisted 2s last year and his 3s are mostly unassisted as well, which further shows his ball-dominance and the lack of ball movement on his teams. Doncic takes this to a whole 'nother level though. Last year, only 9.5% of his 2s and 23.4% of his 3s were assisted. Trae's isn't much better either.

where can I look up assisted fg% all time? and what is Kobe's?

i am not a fan of comparing analytics like this across eras like that - especially in a conversation that was about what wins games - because the game changes. different metrics are associated with winning in different eras. what was the average ast to fg ratio then? what was the average assisted 3pt versus the assisted 2pt compared with average shot selection?

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-14-2021/cI6vQZ.gif


Cade can't push it on the break and do whatever he wants - he's too slow - he'll end up a spot-up shooter

A guy like Luka is more athletic than Cade

[ShawkFactory]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/8-14-2021/cI6vQZ.gif


Cade can't push it on the break and do whatever he wants - he's too slow - he'll end up a spot-up shooter

A guy like Luka is more athletic than Cade

Yea you may want to stop doubling down

[CelticBaller]

OP is the same guy who said Siakam was as good as Kawhi

he's a clown

[k0kakw0rld]

OP is the same guy who said Siakam was as good as Kawhi

he's a clown

I said his game is better than Giannis.

Now Giannis got an offense constructed to help him succeed. But his game is suspect. There is nothing you can tell me otherwise.
You give Giannis Siakam's body and I don't think he is a 2x MVP. However, give Siakam Giannis body and things change.

[CelticBaller]

There is nothing you can tell me otherwise.

Because you're an ignorant clown who refuses to listen to reason

[k0kakw0rld]

Because you're an ignorant clown who refuses to listen to reason

Bro, he is physically more dominant than 99% of the players in the league. That is his advantage. Other than that, he doe not have a game. He is playing bully ball out there. He doesn't have the intangibles, the shooting, the ball handling, he basically is a body builder playing basketball.

Playing Giannis Ball that's what you learn in high school? GO AHEAD AND LIE with your b-tch ass

[Kblaze8855]

I said his game is better than Giannis.

Now Giannis got an offense constructed to help him succeed. But his game is suspect. There is nothing you can tell me otherwise.
You give Giannis Siakam's body and I don't think he is a 2x MVP. However, give Siakam Giannis body and things change.


The “If reality were different” argument is a sure sign youre on the wrong track.

Like it matters what David Robinson, Clyde Drexler, or Shawn Kemp would be if they had someone less athletics body. Nobody cares what Shaq would be in Al Harrington’s body and they shouldn’t. It’s fiction.

[ralph_i_el]

Every big man's game is "suspect". What is the list of 6'10" players with unimpeachable offensive game.
? It's like...KD in my lifetime. Every single great offensive big has had something to criticize.

[k0kakw0rld]

Every big man's game is "suspect". What is the list of 6'10" players with unimpeachable offensive game.
? It's like...KD in my lifetime. Every single great offensive big has had something to criticize.

He is a big man trying to play perimeter

[90sgoat]

Kobe was not ball dominant, he was a black hole, aka if he gets the ball in the paint, he ain't passing out.

Which Kobe definitely was and if he had been an equally good and willing passer as MJ, he would have been a top 5 player of all time.

[ralph_i_el]

He is a big man trying to play perimeter

Less and less as time goes on. He won this past season playing like a big man. He had to hit some tough finesse shots from the post in the finals.

[CelticBaller]

Bro, he is physically more dominant than 99% of the players in the league. That is his advantage. Other than that, he doe not have a game. He is playing bully ball out there. He doesn't have the intangibles, the shooting, the ball handling, he basically is a body builder playing basketball.

Playing Giannis Ball that's what you learn in high school? GO AHEAD AND LIE with your b-tch ass

Bully ball is game

Physicality is part of sports, it's why those who are physically dominant rise to the top. It is "game"

[CelticBaller]

The “If reality were different” argument is a sure sign youre on the wrong track.

Like it matters what David Robinson, Clyde Drexler, or Shawn Kemp would be if they had someone less athletics body. Nobody cares what Shaq would be in Al Harrington’s body and they shouldn’t. It’s fiction.

Exactly

If Michael Jordan didn't have a 40+ inch vert and speed he wouldn't be an all star. If Lebron had carmelo's body he wouldn't be as good as he is today. This is a nonsensical argument

[k0kakw0rld]

Exactly

If Michael Jordan didn't have a 40+ inch vert and speed he wouldn't be an all star. If Lebron had carmelo's body he wouldn't be as good as he is today. This is a nonsensical argument
LeBron's IQ in a Melo body is definitely a PROBLEM!!!

Imagine him with Melo's footwork and shooting ability too. :biggums:

[taabhimself]

bumping this dumb ass thread