Which NBA stars would you consider "unathletic"?

[iamgine]

Steve Nash was very athletic compared to your average joe but compared to other NBA players, he can be considered somewhat unathletic.

Who else would you put in this category? You think James harden or Paul Pierce qualifies?

[pandiani17]

There have been lots of them, actually. Larry Bird, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller, Dirk Nowitzki, etc. When you play basketball, athleticism isn't everything.

[Jasper]

There have been lots of them, actually. Larry Bird, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller, Dirk Nowitzki, etc. When you play basketball, athleticism isn't everything.

best joke on ISH = congratulations

[tpols]

There have been lots of them, actually. Larry Bird, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller, Dirk Nowitzki, etc. When you play basketball, athleticism isn't everything.

Yup. You can add in Jokic and Luka too.

[Bronbron23]

Steve Nash was very athletic compared to your average joe but compared to other NBA players, he can be considered somewhat unathletic.

Who else would you put in this category? You think James harden or Paul Pierce qualifies?

Luka and jokic

[FKAri]

Steve Nash is a great athlete because of his hand eye coordination, reaction time, and seamless ambidextrous ability. But no, instead a guy who is terrible in those areas but jumps 5'' higher is going to be considered the better athlete.

[tpols]

Steve Nash is a great athlete because of his hand eye coordination, reaction time, and seamless ambidextrous ability. But no, instead a guy who is terrible in those areas but jumps 5'' higher is going to be considered the better athlete.

What made Nash good was his mind. He always saw one step ahead. Jason Williams had even better hand eye coordination but he played wild and dumb. Brain counts.

There can be no difference between skill and athleticism if you count that as athleticism. (which is usually strength, speed, and leaping ability)

[HylianNightmare]

The whites minus one or 2

[ScottieQuitting]

The whites minus one or 2
True, the blacks clearly inferior mentally.

[MaxPlayer]

Tim Duncan wasn't especially athletic

[nineiron]

Steve Nash is a great athlete because of his hand eye coordination, reaction time, and seamless ambidextrous ability. But no, instead a guy who is terrible in those areas but jumps 5'' higher is going to be considered the better athlete.

since when has hand eye coordination or reaction time been considered 'athleticism'. you bran stans get stupider and stupider everyday.

[Airupthere]

kyle slow mo anderson

[FKAri]

since when has hand eye coordination or reaction time been considered 'athleticism'. you bran stans get stupider and stupider everyday.

Funny as neither particularly apply to Lebron.

[pandiani17]

best joke on ISH = congratulations

Can you elaborate more your answer?:confusedshrug:

[NBAGOAT]

it's easy to name an offball shooter but most of those guys arent stars and you need elite levels of conditioning to play offball that much, that's athletic ability too. khris middleton is pretty unremarkable for an all star level scorer. He's mostly reliant on just being a very good shotmaker off the dribble. also chris paul never scores at the rim anymore but his lack of athleticism is due more to age and injury

[72-10]

Steve Nash was very athletic compared to your average joe but compared to other NBA players, he can be considered somewhat unathletic.

Who else would you put in this category? You think James harden or Paul Pierce qualifies?

I think there was a time there of about 20 games where Bird actually had some belly fat.

[Round Mound]

Magic wasn't that athletic...

[Sportal]

Doncic and Jokic stand out... I guess anyone who doesn't rely on explosive movement to get their points could be in this category?

Every person in the NBA is a TOP percentile athlete...

[nineiron]

Klay
Curry
Luka
CP3
Jokic
Middleton
Ayton

[Sportal]

Klay
Curry
Luka
CP3
Jokic
Middleton
Ayton

Slow down there, Suns fan.

[nineiron]

Doncic and Jokic stand out... I guess anyone who doesn't rely on explosive movement to get their points could be in this category?

Every person in the NBA is a TOP percentile athlete...

no, they're top percentile basketball players.

you think every person in the MLB or NFL are "top percentile athletes"?

have you seen some of the fat a$$es is baseball?

and let's take Tom Brady for instance. he's good at football (specifically QB'ing), but is he 'athletic'? no ***kin way. have you ever seen him run? i bet he has the vertical of a 60-70 year old man.

[FKAri]

no, they're top percentile basketball players.

you think every person in the MLB or NFL are "top percentile athletes"?

have you seen some of the fat a$$es is baseball?

and let's take Tom Brady for instance. he's good at football (specifically QB'ing), but is he 'athletic'? no ***kin way. have you ever seen him run? i bet he has the vertical of a 60-70 year old man.

Basketball athleticism or general athleticism ?

You said this:

since when has hand eye coordination or reaction time been considered 'athleticism'. you bran stans get stupider and stupider everyday.

Tom Brady has these athletic qualities which allow him to be elite at his position. Shohei Ohtani is widely considered the best athlete in baseball today and I doubt he jumps very high.

[k0kakw0rld]

There have been lots of them, actually. Larry Bird, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller, Dirk Nowitzki, etc. When you play basketball, athleticism isn't everything.
Chris Paul?

[Airupthere]

lowry

[nineiron]

Basketball athleticism or general athleticism ?

You said this:


Tom Brady has these athletic qualities which allow him to be elite at his position. Shohei Ohtani is widely considered the best athlete in baseball today and I doubt he jumps very high.

wrong. Ohtani is considered the best BASEBALL player, not the best athlete.

how are you unable to grasp the difference?

[FKAri]

wrong. Ohtani is considered the best BASEBALL player, not the best athlete.

how are you unable to grasp the difference?



it’s almost inarguable that he’s the most physically talented all-around athlete ever to play the game (though Bo Jackson might have had enough arm to hold his own as a pitcher)- https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2021/6/25/22550308/shohei-ohtani-popularity-two-way-home-run-derby


it got me thinking: “Is Ohtani the best athlete in all of sports? Is he the best athlete in his own sport?- https://www.pitcherlist.com/the-best-athletes-to-play-baseball/



His athletic tools for baseball are bonkers. Is he going to win a national track meet? No.
MJ and Lebron are great basketball athletes. Could MJ have won a marathon or a Tour de France? Not in a million years no matter how much he trained for it. He didn't have the physical tools.

Shaq is a great basketball athlete and I'm sure he's much stronger than MJ, Lebron and Ohtani. But he's way too slow, big, uncoordinated for a million sports like soccer, tennis, swimming, gymnastics, or literally anything that involves movement. I bet there's college kids who could kick prime Shaq's ass in distance AND sprints. I guess Shaq must be a god awful athlete.

What's athleticism to you?

[nineiron]

- https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2021/6/25/22550308/shohei-ohtani-popularity-two-way-home-run-derby

- https://www.pitcherlist.com/the-best-athletes-to-play-baseball/



His athletic tools for baseball are bonkers. Is he going to win a national track meet? No.
MJ and Lebron are great basketball athletes. Could MJ have won a marathon or a Tour de France? Not in a million years no matter how much he trained for it. He didn't have the physical tools.

Shaq is a great basketball athlete and I'm sure he's much stronger than MJ, Lebron and Ohtani. But he's way too slow, big, uncoordinated for a million sports like soccer, tennis, swimming, gymnastics, or literally anything that involves movement. I bet there's college kids who could kick prime Shaq's ass in distance AND sprints. I guess Shaq must be a god awful athlete.

What's athleticism to you?

speed
agility
quickness
explosiveness
body control

Ohtani is a pitcher and DH. aside from running the bases, how is anyone able to determine how "athletic" he is?

and btw, listening to baseball people talk about athleticism is like basketball players talking about fighting.

[FultzNationRISE]

no, they're top percentile basketball players.

you think every person in the MLB or NFL are "top percentile athletes"?

have you seen some of the fat a$$es is baseball?

and let's take Tom Brady for instance. he's good at football (specifically QB'ing), but is he 'athletic'? no ***kin way. have you ever seen him run? i bet he has the vertical of a 60-70 year old man.

Basketball, baseball, and football are not the same :hammerhead:

Every position in basketball requires sprinting up and down, frequent changes of direction, and ball handling or posting up, AGAINST other elite athletes. You cannot compete at an NBA level without being an elite athlete compared to the average human.

That doesn't mean athletic prowess is the only thing needed to be successful, or that it is the most important trait for success. Skill obviously compensates for being less athletic compared to other NBA players.

To say guys like Pierce, Nash, Dirk aren't elite athletes compared to the general population is ludicrous.

[FultzNationRISE]

speed
agility
quickness
explosiveness
body control

Ohtani is a pitcher and DH. aside from running the bases, how is anyone able to determine how "athletic" he is?

and btw, listening to baseball people talk about athleticism is like basketball players talking about fighting.

Also, any competitive skill that is physical, is a part of athleticism. Juggling a soccer ball, shooting three pointers, hitting a fastball, skipping rocks across a pond...

Being a good decision maker is a cerebral skill and very useful in sports, but chess players arent considered athletes for a reason. Hitting a precise shot in golf is an athletic skill. You're not gonna be good at it just because you have a degree from MIT.

Athleticism encompasses any physical trait that is useful in competition.

[nineiron]

Basketball, baseball, and football are not the same :hammerhead:

Every position in basketball requires sprinting up and down, frequent changes of direction, and ball handling or posting up, AGAINST other elite athletes. You cannot compete at an NBA level without being an elite athlete compared to the average human.

That doesn't mean athletic prowess is the only thing needed to be successful, or that it is the most important trait for success. Skill obviously compensates for being less athletic compared to other NBA players.

To say guys like Pierce, Nash, Dirk aren't elite athletes compared to the general population is ludicrous.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/o0PrnETz5L4/hqdefault.jpg

[nineiron]

Also, any competitive skill that is physical, is a part of athleticism. Juggling a soccer ball, shooting three pointers, hitting a fastball, skipping rocks across a pond...

Being a good decision maker is a cerebral skill and very useful in sports, but chess players arent considered athletes for a reason. Hitting a precise shot in golf is an athletic skill. You're not gonna be good at it just because you have a degree from MIT.

Athleticism encompasses any physical trait that is useful in competition.

so you consider people that compete in dart throwing, curling, archery, shooting, athleticism?

[FultzNationRISE]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/o0PrnETz5L4/hqdefault.jpg

https://images.news18.com/ibnlive/uploads/2018/04/Spring-Festival-Revives-Japans-Ancient-Sport-Sumo-Wrestling-FEA.jpg?impolicy=website&width=510&height=356


Once again, girth is not an automatic disqualifier of general athleticism.


Trust me ;)

[FultzNationRISE]

so you consider people that compete in dart throwing, curling, archery, shooting, athleticism?

I consider that one of many athletic skills.

There are elite sprinters who cant toss a pitch within 10 feet of a plate. High jumpers who cant dribble a soccer ball for shit. Swimmers who would get ragdolled in a wrestling ring. Athleticism is a wide variety of traits. If you have multiple athletic traits at a high level, you are probably an elite athlete. If you're a one-trick pony, probably not.

[tpols]

I consider that one of many athletic skills.

There are elite sprinters who cant toss a pitch within 10 feet of a plate. High jumpers who cant dribble a soccer ball for shit. Swimmers who would get ragdolled in a wrestling ring. Athleticism is a wide variety of traits. If you have multiple athletic traits at a high level, you are probably an elite athlete. If you're a one-trick pony, probably not.

Most of what you're describing is a specific skill. Hitting a golf ball doesn't count as athleticism. Some of those guys would be bottom rank in any test of speed, strength, agility, and quickness. They are good at hitting a golf ball because they've swung a club 1 million times. Same way Larry Bird has shot 1 million makes. That's a skill. We live in a physical world so technically everything is athleticism then. Me typing this to you is athleticism because I'm using my fingers to hit the keys.

[FultzNationRISE]

Most of what you're describing is a specific skill. Hitting a golf ball doesn't count as athleticism. Some of those guys would be bottom rank in any test of speed, strength, agility, and quickness. They are good at hitting a golf ball because they've swung a club 1 million times. Same way Larry Bird has shot 1 million makes. That's a skill. We live in a physical world so technically everything is athleticism then. Me typing this to you is athleticism because I'm using my fingers to hit the keys.

1) I absolutely guarantee you there are people who've put as much time into shooting as Steph Curry has. Yet they aren't as good. People have different ceilings, and that's part of innate athleticism. Obviously practice helps, but you can practice anything including sprinting, hurdles, high jump. Your athleticism is what determines your ceiling if practice is applied equally.

2) Typing a message is not a competitive skill. Unless you have some kind of a 'race' and measure wpm, in which case the ability to type quickly absolutely is a form of athleticism. The practical definition is very simple. Physical, and competitively advantageous. The way you move the pieces on a chess board with your hand doesnt offer any competitive advantage, so that's not athletics. Dropping a golf ball onto a precise spot on the green with a perfect amount of backspin to keep it from rolling is absolutely an athletic skill and hard as ****. That is legit athleticism, just not in a 'classical' way because golf hasn't been around as long as sprinting and wrestling. It's not something you grow up doing every year in gym class. But it's the same concept at its core.

[nineiron]

I consider that one of many athletic skills.

There are elite sprinters who cant toss a pitch within 10 feet of a plate. High jumpers who cant dribble a soccer ball for shit. Swimmers who would get ragdolled in a wrestling ring. Athleticism is a wide variety of traits. If you have multiple athletic traits at a high level, you are probably an elite athlete. If you're a one-trick pony, probably not.

pitching is a skill. dribbling a soccer ball is a skill.

maybe it's difficult for you to comprehend since you're a bran stan. let me put it in a way you might understand. Lebron is athletic, but is not very skilled as a basketball player.

[FultzNationRISE]

pitching is a skill. dribbling a soccer ball is a skill.

maybe it's difficult for you to comprehend since you're a bran stan.

Yeah, it's an ATHLETIC SKILL.

You think sprinters and high jumpers don't learn technique and execution? They don't practice? You don't think they hone their form? They don't apply any skill? They just sign up for the Olympics as soon as they realize they can run fast or jump high, and thats how they get the gold?

:facepalm

[nineiron]

Yeah, it's an ATHLETIC SKILL.

You think sprinters and high jumpers don't learn technique and execution? You don't think they train to maximize form? They just sign up for the Olympics as soon as they realize they can run fast?

:facepalm

i guarantee you that every single one of those track athletes were fast even before training.

[FultzNationRISE]

i guarantee you that every single one of those track athletes were fast even before training.

Yeah, and I knew kids who were good pitchers in little league.

Ricky Rubio was playing professional basketball at 14 years old.

What is your point?

[nineiron]

Yeah, and I knew kids who were good pitchers in little league.

Ricky Rubio was playing professional basketball at 14 years old.

What is your point?


my point was that track athletes rely mainly on athleticism. the elite ones train hard to maximize their athletic potential.

little league pitchers that were good were good at PITCHING, which is a SKILL.

Rubio playing basketball at 14 has nothing to do with his athleticism. it was his SKILL.

[FultzNationRISE]

my point was that track athletes rely mainly on athleticism. the elite ones train hard to maximize their athletic potential.

little league pitchers that were good were good at PITCHING, which is a SKILL.

Rubio playing basketball at 14 has nothing to do with his athleticism. it was his SKILL.

So running fast is athleticism, but throwing fast is a skill...???

Contorting your body to swing a golf club is a skill, but contorting to complete a high jump is athleticism?

So basically, competition that doesnt involve manipulating objects is athleticism, while anything that does is a skill?


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/67/Jackie_Chiles_in_The_Maestro_Seinfeld.JPG/220px-Jackie_Chiles_in_The_Maestro_Seinfeld.JPG

"That seems small minded, semantic, arbitrary."


But then again... so do LeHaters ;)

[nineiron]

So running fast is athleticism, but throwing fast is a skill...???

Contorting your body to swing a golf club is a skill, but contorting to complete a high jump is athleticism?

So basically, competition that doesnt involve manipulating objects is athleticism, while anything that does is a skill?

"That seems small minded, semantic, arbitrary."
Jackie_Chiles_in_The_Maestro_Seinfeld


But then again... so do LeHaters ;)


that's right, running fast IS athleticism and throwing a ball is mostly skill. why is that so hard to understand?

you obviously haven't played many sports in your lifetime. explains why you stan leb1tch so hard.

btw, i've never heard anyone describe a golf swing as "contorting your body". you sound like an idiot.

[tpols]

1) I absolutely guarantee you there are people who've put as much time into shooting as Steph Curry has. Yet they aren't as good. People have different ceilings, and that's part of innate athleticism. Obviously practice helps, but you can practice anything including sprinting, hurdles, high jump. Your athleticism is what determines your ceiling if practice is applied equally.

2) Typing a message is not a competitive skill. Unless you have some kind of a 'race' and measure wpm, in which case the ability to type quickly absolutely is a form of athleticism. The practical definition is very simple. Physical, and competitively advantageous. The way you move the pieces on a chess board with your hand doesnt offer any competitive advantage, so that's not athletics. Dropping a golf ball onto a precise spot on the green with a perfect amount of backspin to keep it from rolling is absolutely an athletic skill and hard as ****. That is legit athleticism, just not in a 'classical' way because golf hasn't been around as long as sprinting and wrestling. It's not something you grow up doing every year in gym class. But it's the same concept at its core.

This is the Merriam Webster definition of athleticism.



athletic ability : the combination of qualities (such as speed, strength, and agility) that are characteristic of an athlete


and skill


dexterity or coordination especially in the execution of learned physical tasks


By your definition skill doesn't exist. Everything we do in this world is physical. If Curry never shot a basketball he wouldn't be good at it. Everybody in life has run jumped and wrestled with others. These are base athletic traits of speed and strength all of life engages in. Shooting a basketball or hitting a golf ball is a skill. Its a repetitive motion for an extremely niche ability. Some of these pro golfers are 60 year old men who couldnt run a mile in less than ten minutes. They are skillful, not athletic.

[FultzNationRISE]

that's right, running fast IS athleticism and throwing a ball is mostly skill. why is that so hard to understand?

you obviously haven't played many sports in your lifetime. explains why you stan leb1tch so hard.

btw, i've never heard anyone describe a golf swing as "contorting your body". you sound like an idiot.

:roll: :hammerhead:

You're way off the mark tbh. I actually was an elite athlete/sportsman.

Why do you think I sound so much less angry than you all the time? It's because I don't have to look in the mirror and hate myself.

[LeCola]

I dont think Luka is unathletic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXrHT-jZ0Sg&feature=youtu.be

[FKAri]

speed
agility
quickness
explosiveness
body control

Ohtani is a pitcher and DH. aside from running the bases, how is anyone able to determine how "athletic" he is?

and btw, listening to baseball people talk about athleticism is like basketball players talking about fighting.

OK so Shaq's a terrible athlete. Got it.

[FultzNationRISE]

This is the Merriam Webster definition of athleticism.



and skill



By your definition skill doesn't exist. Everything we do in this world is physical. If Curry never shot a basketball he wouldn't be good at it. Everybody in life has run jumped and wrestled with others. These are base athletic traits of speed and strength all of life engages in. Shooting a basketball or hitting a golf ball is a skill. Its a repetitive motion for an extremely niche ability. Some of these pro golfers are 60 year old men who couldnt run a mile in less than ten minutes. They are skillful, not athletic.

That's fair. I still think you're underselling the physical requirements to do certain sports at a high level. I promise you there is something athletically unique about Curry that allows him to be the greatest shooter in history. Either some kind of advantageous symmetry/asymmetry in his torso or shoulders, or his depth perception, or something. He's not the only guy to spend a lot of time in a gym.

I think of skill as something that doesn't require a specific physical advantage. Like learning how to take a computer apart and put it back together. Or starting a fire with sticks. Things you can learn and practice but that dont involve a physical advantage and competition. When an interviewer asks about your skills at a job interview, do you tell them how dexterous and coordinated you are?

I guess it's just a matter of how you choose to interpret the words. If you look at soccer players for instance, those guys are usually good at every sport. They can shoot hoops, they can run routes, they can hit pitches. That's universal coordination. Whereas a lot of sprinters, swimmers, and even football and basketball players are awful at dribbling soccer balls, or translating into any other sport that requires versatile coordination. To me that's a big part of the definition of athleticism.

[Smoke117]

I remember when Kobe stains were trying to tell us he wasn't that athletic, but that he overcame it with skill. :oldlol:

[FKAri]

I remember when Kobe stains were trying to tell us he wasn't that athletic, but that he overcame it with skill. :oldlol:

You could argue he was more skilled than athletic. At least when it comes to guys in the 6'6'' region.

[tpols]

I remember when Kobe stains were trying to tell us he wasn't that athletic, but that he overcame it with skill. :oldlol:

One look at Kobes dunk mixtape (which is GOAT) shows he's an insane athlete. Better than anybody today tbh. But the thing is he relied on jumpshooting and masterful orchestration in the triangle more than his athletic ability. Kobes athletic ability was a feature. His main game was cerebral and skillfull. You feel me Smokey?

[Charlie Sheen]

speed
agility
quickness
explosiveness
body control

Ohtani is a pitcher and DH. aside from running the bases, how is anyone able to determine how "athletic" he is?

and btw, listening to baseball people talk about athleticism is like basketball players talking about fighting.

It's not a feat of athleticism to throw 80-100 pitches living between 92- 100 mph AND hit MLB pitching 500 ft in the air? :lol

[nineiron]

This is the Merriam Webster definition of athleticism.



and skill



By your definition skill doesn't exist. Everything we do in this world is physical. If Curry never shot a basketball he wouldn't be good at it. Everybody in life has run jumped and wrestled with others. These are base athletic traits of speed and strength all of life engages in. Shooting a basketball or hitting a golf ball is a skill. Its a repetitive motion for an extremely niche ability. Some of these pro golfers are 60 year old men who couldnt run a mile in less than ten minutes. They are skillful, not athletic.

the guy just doesn't get it. you really can't talk about anything, intelligently, with a bran stan

[nineiron]

OK so Shaq's a terrible athlete. Got it.

shaq is not that athletic, that's right. but compared to other guys his size, he's probably more athletic.

[nineiron]

That's fair. I still think you're underselling the physical requirements to do certain sports at a high level. I promise you there is something athletically unique about Curry that allows him to be the greatest shooter in history. Either some kind of advantageous symmetry/asymmetry in his torso or shoulders, or his depth perception, or something. He's not the only guy to spend a lot of time in a gym.

I think of skill as something that doesn't require a specific physical advantage. Like learning how to take a computer apart and put it back together. Or starting a fire with sticks. Things you can learn and practice but that dont involve a physical advantage and competition. When an interviewer asks about your skills at a job interview, do you tell them how dexterous and coordinated you are?

I guess it's just a matter of how you choose to interpret the words. If you look at soccer players for instance, those guys are usually good at every sport. They can shoot hoops, they can run routes, they can hit pitches. That's universal coordination. Whereas a lot of sprinters, swimmers, and even football and basketball players are awful at dribbling soccer balls, or translating into any other sport that requires versatile coordination. To me that's a big part of the definition of athleticism.

lmfao. wtf are you talking about?

is this what you tell yourself is the reason that you couldn't make it to the nba?

someone please get this loser off this forum.

[nineiron]

It's not a feat of athleticism to throw 80-100 pitches living between 92- 100 mph AND hit MLB pitching 500 ft in the air? :lol

no, it's a feat of skill.

i'm guessing you're referring to Ohtani's size and that's why he's able to hit the ball that far?

if you know anything about baseball you'll know that there is a TON of technique in hitting. just like there is in a golf swing.

[tpols]

That's fair. I still think you're underselling the physical requirements to do certain sports at a high level. I promise you there is something athletically unique about Curry that allows him to be the greatest shooter in history. Either some kind of advantageous symmetry/asymmetry in his torso or shoulders, or his depth perception, or something. He's not the only guy to spend a lot of time in a gym.

I think of skill as something that doesn't require a specific physical advantage. Like learning how to take a computer apart and put it back together. Or starting a fire with sticks. Things you can learn and practice but that dont involve a physical advantage and competition. When an interviewer asks about your skills at a job interview, do you tell them how dexterous and coordinated you are?

I guess it's just a matter of how you choose to interpret the words. If you look at soccer players for instance, those guys are usually good at every sport. They can shoot hoops, they can run routes, they can hit pitches. That's universal coordination. Whereas a lot of sprinters, swimmers, and even football and basketball players are awful at dribbling soccer balls, or translating into any other sport that requires versatile coordination. To me that's a big part of the definition of athleticism.

Curry grew up taking 1000s of jumpers under the tutelage of a professional shooter (his dad). That's why he's great at it.

I wish we could have a counter for every made jump shot every star NBA player took in his life ~ practice, pick up, real games, playoffs everything. Bird used to shoot 1000 jumpers a day. He's literally made millions of baskets. I can guarantee you guys like Bird, Dirk, and Curry have made many more jumpers than guys like Shaq, giannis, and lebron. Practice alone they lap them. And that's why they're better at it.

[nineiron]

Curry grew up taking 1000s of jumpers under the tutelage of a professional shooter (his dad). That's why he's great at it.

I wish we could have a counter for every made jump shot every star NBA player took in his life ~ practice, pick up, real games, playoffs everything. Bird used to shoot 1000 jumpers a day. He's literally made millions of baskets. I can guarantee you guys like Bird, Dirk, and Curry have made many more jumpers than guys like Shaq, giannis, and lebron. Practice alone they lap them. And that's why they're better at it.

exactly. it's funny that it's all the bran stans that think shooting is a natural ability.

i would explain the difference between athleticism and skill like this:
SKILL: if Curry stopped shooting completely for 1 year and I did nothing but shoot for 1 year, if we had a contest, I might have a chance.

ATHLETICISM: if Usain Bolt stopped sprinting for 1 year and I did nothing but sprint for 1 year, I'd still have no chance.

[FultzNationRISE]

exactly. it's funny that it's all the bran stans that think shooting is a natural ability.

i would explain the difference between athleticism and skill like this:
SKILL: if Curry stopped shooting completely for 1 year and I did nothing but shoot for 1 year, if we had a contest, I might have a chance.

ATHLETICISM: if Usain Bolt stopped sprinting for 1 year and I did nothing but sprint for 1 year, I'd still have no chance.

So you dont consider boxers or tennis players to be athletes then, right?

Endurance is important, but that can be trained for. Technique is a learned skill. I guess boxers need a long reach, but a long reach doesnt win anything at a track meet so thats not athleticism.

Hm. That’s interesting. Boxers and tennis players arent really athletes.

Who’d have thought?

[nineiron]

So you dont consider boxers or tennis players to be athletes then, right?

Endurance is important, but that can be trained for. Technique is a learned skill. I guess boxers need a long reach, but a long reach doesnt win anything at a track meet so thats not athleticism.

Hm. That’s interesting. Boxers and tennis players arent really athletes.

Who’d have thought?

do you know how much technique goes into throwing a proper punch? do you know how much practice it takes to get to pro level boxing footwork?

do you have any idea how technical tennis is? do you have to be in shape? of course. but "athletic" is the last word I'd use to describe tennis players.

[FultzNationRISE]

do you know how much technique goes into throwing a proper punch? do you know how much practice it takes to get to pro level boxing footwork?

do you have any idea how technical tennis is? do you have to be in shape? of course. but "athletic" is the last word I'd use to describe tennis players.

Ok, but you just said technique, practice, training are all part of skill and NOT athleticism. You made a clear point of distinguishing skill from athleticism.

So basically anyone could CHOOSE to be an elite boxer or tennis player, because all it takes is a commitment to practice, no physically innate ability like Usain Bolt has.

I’m just using your logic. Tom Brady isnt a great athlete, so why would Raf Nadal or Muhammed Ali be considered as such? Those guys would get smoked by Usain Bolt at a track meet.

Athleticism is determined strictly by your time in a 40 yard dash.

:confusedshrug:

You said it, not me.

[Axe]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/ckltH3WWaHuSUAgIZE/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b9527a29c1154f668c6fe268cd52ed0 15305b15539e8&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g

[CTbasketball92]

People have a flawed idea of athleticism, I find.

If you're able to consistently turn the corner on your defender/beat your defender off the dribble, especially wings and guards, the chances are, you're at least an above average athlete. You need some handle to do that, but you also need either a very good first step or elite deceleration abilities to beat defenders off the dribble. Then, in order to finish at the rim, you usually need bounce or great core strength/some combo of power and size. So with this in mind, considering that Luka blows by elite defenders all the time and he's one of the best finishers in the league, so there's basically no way that he's unathletic. If you need to see dunks, on YouTube, you can find footage of him doing eastbays, etc.

People only think about maximum force output when they think about athleticism, but it's much more than that. People remember MJ taking off from the foul line, but they don't quite understand the nuances of his biomechanics and his all-around versatility. MJ can take off both feet equally well, can take off from 15 feet away while still maintaining his 45-inch vertical. He can get up very high from a standstill. This means there are no instances where he has trouble getting optimum height to soar above defenders to finish. In addition to that, he was incredibly agile and dexterous. He could do a stutter step in close spaces to get around defenders as if he was a 6'1" guard, but he was actually 6'5." He could twist his body in obscene ways to finish from any angle imaginable. He could start and stop with the best of them. He was a ballerina on the ground and in the air. He had the core strength to adjust his body to square up at the rim and finish. He could slide his feet laterally to stay in front of any defender.

Most of the above traits are what separate Jason Richardson from MJ. Richardson could pull off some amazing dunks, but he couldn't leap off one foot the same way, explode off the dribble, contort his body as well on ground or in air, etc. Donovan Mitchell has elite speed and quickness and bounce, but he has trouble taking off of one foot, and that keeps his finishing percentage lower than it should be given his bounce and strength. Andrew Wiggins has great speed and quickness and bounce off two feet, but he's got big, clumsy feet and he's very stiff in his hips, and those things hold him back as much as his lack of a handle. People always mention his athleticism, but he'd be much better off with less bounce and power and more shiftiness/agility/flexibility in his hips.

There are people that have all of the above traits sans the 45-inch vertical, or maybe they're a bit slower, but they have more important parts of functional athleticism than say, Josh Smith, Jason Richardson, DeMar DeRozan and Gerald Green.

Boxing and tennis absolutely require athleticism. Tennis, you need to have amazing reflexes and nimble feet to switch directions, power to send the ball blasting across the net with adequate power.

I'd say there are different ways to be athletic, too. Jokic has some athletic issues in some areas, but he's actually got a quick second bounce to go along with amazing balance and coordination. He very rarely looks out of control, it's because he's incredibly balanced and is always in control of his movements to an extreme degree. When I watch Andre Drummond, who is still more athletic, especially in ostensive ways, it's clear he lacks most of those qualities. So to me, Jokic, even with his slow lateral speed, is a decent athlete for a center, especially now that he's leaner and regularly blows by bigs for dunks.

[nineiron]

Ok, but you just said technique, practice, training are all part of skill and NOT athleticism. You made a clear point of distinguishing skill from athleticism.

So basically anyone could CHOOSE to be an elite boxer or tennis player, because all it takes is a commitment to practice, no physically innate ability like Usain Bolt has.

I’m just using your logic. Tom Brady isnt a great athlete, so why would Raf Nadal or Muhammed Ali be considered as such? Those guys would get smoked by Usain Bolt at a track meet.

Athleticism is determined strictly by your time in a 40 yard dash.

:confusedshrug:

You said it, not me.

Wow you are dumb

You think being an “athlete” makes you “athletic”. Lmfao

[72-10]

yeah Oliver Miller takes the cake. Wasn't he LeBron's teammate?

[BurningHammer]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaQH2rdWoAAKt2a.jpg

Especially in his early years of pro basketball.

[kkb_12]

What made Nash good was his mind. He always saw one step ahead. Jason Williams had even better hand eye coordination but he played wild and dumb. Brain counts.

There can be no difference between skill and athleticism if you count that as athleticism. (which is usually strength, speed, and leaping ability)

Endurance and cardio fitness is athleticism, and Nash was in top tier in those categories.

Both Luka and Jokic are amazingly strong - which is part of athletic ability.

[nineiron]

Endurance and cardio fitness is athleticism, and Nash was in top tier in those categories.

Both Luka and Jokic are amazingly strong - which is part of athletic ability.

endurance and cardio have nothing to do with athleticism.

how do you know how strong Luka and Jokic are? have you lifted with them?

[kkb_12]

endurance and cardio have nothing to do with athleticism.

how do you know how strong Luka and Jokic are? have you lifted with them?

So marathon runners are not athletic?

I see that most other players simply bounce off them and cannot push them from their path or established position.

[Charlie Sheen]

Ok, but you just said technique, practice, training are all part of skill and NOT athleticism. You made a clear point of distinguishing skill from athleticism.

So basically anyone could CHOOSE to be an elite boxer or tennis player, because all it takes is a commitment to practice, no physically innate ability like Usain Bolt has.

I’m just using your logic. Tom Brady isnt a great athlete, so why would Raf Nadal or Muhammed Ali be considered as such? Those guys would get smoked by Usain Bolt at a track meet.

Athleticism is determined strictly by your time in a 40 yard dash.

:confusedshrug:

You said it, not me.
I was going to reply to nineiron but you said it better than I could have. There's no way to be consistent when making some arbitrary distinction between athleticism and technique. :applause:

[FKAri]

endurance and cardio have nothing to do with athleticism.
:oldlol:

[nineiron]

:oldlol:

it has more to do with size and fitness. both of which are not athleticism.