Kevin Durant vs Kobe Bryant. Who had a better prime/peak?

[1987_Lakers]

:confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

It’s close. Leaning Kobe, I feel like had more impact. Could be wrong would have to check impact data. Durant is a better scorer though.

[Manny98]

KD easily

14-17 Durant was the greatest offensive force the league has ever seen in terms of combined scoring volume and efficiency

[Cold soul]

Kobe the better playmaker, passer, defender, mental toughness and leader. I’ll give Kobe the edge in pure scoring as well but Durant more efficient and easily better shooter.

[Cold soul]

I also want to add Kobe was a far better ball handler, so it allowed him to more consistently pressure defenses with dribble penetration without turning the ball over. That leads to more consistent shot creation, more consistent collapsing of a defense, and more consistently open teammates. The difference is gravity that Kobe had on offense was just a lot better than Durant's. You add in footwork, post game the gap is even wider than some believe.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The 3 best non big man in the 21st century

Kawhi > Kobe > Durant

[kennygriffin]

both amazing players but sadly only one of them has real championships and played in a real era during his prime

[tpols]

They're both GOAT basketball players.

Kobe was tougher, physically and mentally, and a better leader, but KD has the talent advantage being a 7 footer with such supreme shot making skill.

Simply put, Durant has Kobes arsenal in a 7 foot frame minus the leadership qualities.

[ArbitraryWater]

I also want to add Kobe was a far better ball handler, so it allowed him to more consistently pressure defenses with dribble penetration without turning the ball over. That leads to more consistent shot creation, more consistent collapsing of a defense, and more consistently open teammates. The difference is gravity that Kobe had on offense was just a lot better than Durant's. You add in footwork, post game the gap is even wider than some believe.

kobe had no where near durant's gravity foh

what more consistent shot creation?

every 3rd kobe shot was endless pump fakes, kd can rise on anyone.

[ShawkFactory]

I also want to add Kobe was a far better ball handler, so it allowed him to more consistently pressure defenses with dribble penetration without turning the ball over. That leads to more consistent shot creation, more consistent collapsing of a defense, and more consistently open teammates. The difference is gravity that Kobe had on offense was just a lot better than Durant's. You add in footwork, post game the gap is even wider than some believe.

Durant has been scoring 30+ on great efficiency on the biggest stages for a decade now. Who cares what the footwork looks like when Durant can literally get any shot at any time that he wants...and make it more often than not too?

When things clamp down further along in the playoffs things became slightly more difficult for Kobe. He can be baited into taking bad shots too.

Not the case with Durant.

As for overall, I'd still take Kobe because I value what he can do for a team mentally more than the small gap with KDs offensive superiority.

[warriorfan]

Kobe. More alpha. Led a ragtag team of misfits to back 2 back titles.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe. More alpha. Led a ragtag team of misfits to back 2 back titles.
So did Durant

[warriorfan]

So did Durant

Lamar
Artest
Bynum

The team was full of cancerous headcases.

[SaintzFury13]

KD is far more skilled as far as shooting is concerned. He might be the greatest seven foot shooter in the history of basketball. But Kobe's post game was god tier, his ability to read the defense was incredible and for me personally, he was one of the greatest off ball players I had ever seen, a very underrated attribute in basketball and something guys like LeBron don't hold a candle on him in.

[SaintzFury13]

So did Durant

You tell me right now who on that Warriors team apart from McGee qualifies as a misfit. And hell, McGee gave him a legitimate rim protecting center that they desperately needed after losing Bogut.

[Naero]

Kevin Durant. He's just better in every conceivable aspect apart from playmaking, man-to-man defense, and leadership intangibles.

Kobe might be the GOAT contested-shot-maker, but that's immaterial unless you're playing a game of H-O-R-S-E; in the traditional team game, you want whoever can take the highest-percentage shots, which Durant is more dependable for because of his height and higher-IQ playstyle.

Previously, I'd vote Kobe because Durant as a lone superstar didn't consistently translate his dominance to the playoffs as the former did circa 2008-10. But I think KD has proven himself enough during this year's mini-run to put him on, if not above, Kobe's level as a playoffs-performer.

Kobe is still considered greater mainly because his two leaderly rings—and possibly even some of his second-fiddle ones—will always outvalue Durant's two piggybacked titles, but if I had the choice to build around either? I'd lean towards Durant at this point.

[SouBeachTalents]

You tell me right now who on that Warriors team apart from McGee qualifies as a misfit. And hell, McGee gave him a legitimate rim protecting center that they desperately needed after losing Bogut.
The entire core, Curry, Klay, Dray, Iggy. He took a team that didn't win a championship in 2016 to b2b titles

[HoopsNY]

KD is the superior offensive weapon, but you can't deny what Kobe was able to accomplish between 2008-10. KD joined a 73 win team and really didn't have to exert any energy into leadership as the road was already paved for him.

A guy like Kobe brought more on the ball defense, leadership, together with his offensive skillset. While I do think that Kobe and KD are closer as individual players than most people would like to admit, I think their peaks aren't close.

[1987_Lakers]

Durant has been scoring 30+ on great efficiency on the biggest stages for a decade now. Who cares what the footwork looks like when Durant can literally get any shot at any time that he wants...and make it more often than not too?

When things clamp down further along in the playoffs things became slightly more difficult for Kobe. He can be baited into taking bad shots too.

Not the case with Durant.

As for overall, I'd still take Kobe because I value what he can do for a team mentally more than the small gap with KDs offensive superiority.

I agree with this, pretty footwork and a post game are all great traits to have, but when you are 7 feet who can basically shoot overy everyone at the end of the day you don't really need all those other traits. It's kind of like saying McHale is better than Shaq cause he had more post moves, it doesn't add up.

KD has proven he can score at an elite level with great efficiency, people get caught up in the "but he a killer alpha mindset" when discussing Kobe, but you can also say those egotistical traits got him in alot of trouble on the court, forcing shots he shouldn't have been taking. As a straight up scorer, Durant is better. Kobe has a few advantages, better leader, his defensive prime is better than Durant's, although you can say peak 2006-2008 Kobe was already past his defensive peak. Both were mostly known as scorers and KD was him beat in that area in my opinion.

[Manny98]

Kobe the better playmaker, passer, defender, mental toughness and leader. I’ll give Kobe the edge in pure scoring as well but Durant more efficient and easily better shooter.
:facepalm

[lakerstekkenn]

Durant has been scoring 30+ on great efficiency on the biggest stages for a decade now. Who cares what the footwork looks like when Durant can literally get any shot at any time that he wants...and make it more often than not too?

When things clamp down further along in the playoffs things became slightly more difficult for Kobe. He can be baited into taking bad shots too.

Not the case with Durant.

As for overall, I'd still take Kobe because I value what he can do for a team mentally more than the small gap with KDs offensive superiority.

Yeah he's so great that he couldn't win the chip when facing Miami, then couldn't get past Golden State in their 7 game series, so instead of fighting with his teammates Russell & Harding, to beat the Worriers, since he's so great, he jumps ship after already being on a team that could possibly win a championship to cement his legacy with a City like Oklahoma, but he's jumping ship to Golden State to insure he's winning a championship, then almost loses to Huston but he's so unstoppable, then leaves and couldn't beat Milwaukee with an even supporting cast because his other two all star players were out ?


Then he plays with an all star Olympic team that struggled against France and they are your average team, he's got everyone fooled with this nonsense, although he is an all star player, he's hasn't done anything except piggy back his rings on the backs of an already 70 plus regular season wining championship team that he should've been focused on beating himself when playing for The Thunder.

I am not buying into that fake hype because Dirk shot just as well as Durant and waited until he finally got his championship playing for Dallas, he didn't jump ship while still prime & young but struggled earning his championship; Durant wasn't past prime and on his way out like others who join championship teams, Duran was prime and young.

Just winning championships with your rival & shooting well while losing in the playoffs doesn't get you pas`anybody on the all time great list especially Kobe, or your top 20 NBA players, you have to earn your championships on your own team, likely James finally did in Cleveland, this joining super teams don't automatically give you all time great status.

Not in my book.

We have seen Durant's game before it's exactly like Dirk's game it's nothing new, it's just today's NBA have poor defenders.

Durant is doing the exact same things that he's done since he became an all star.


The Game Kevin Durant Met PRIME Dirk Nowitzki! EPIC Game 1 Duel Highlights | 2011 NBA Playoffs WCF


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5x9UoV9ii0


The same numbers but with a loss in the finals, it's the same Durant, he had the same & numbers but jumped ship, when he couldn't win, not accepted in my book.

[Cold soul]

kobe had no where near durant's gravity foh

what more consistent shot creation?

every 3rd kobe shot was endless pump fakes, kd can rise on anyone.

Yeah Kobe gravity was as good as Durant if not better. Kobe is the better driver and finisher at the rim too. Not every Kobe 3 point shot was endless pump fakes, come on man. :facepalm

[Smoke117]

Durant is a much better player.

[SATAN]

I don't know why you guys always compare players who are nothing alike at all.

In the spirit of the thread though, I think Kobe was a better player..Not necessarily a better superteam player than Durant though.

[Cold soul]

I don't know why you guys always compare players who are nothing alike at all.

In the spirit of the thread though, I think Kobe was a better player..Not necessarily a better superteam player than Durant though.

I see what you did there. :lol

[ShawkFactory]

Yeah he's so great that he couldn't win the chip when facing Miami, then couldn't get past Golden State in their 7 game series, so instead of fighting with his teammates Russell & Harding, to beat the Worriers, since he's so great, he jumps ship after already being on a team that could possibly win a championship to cement his legacy with a City like Oklahoma, but he's jumping ship to Golden State to insure he's winning a championship, then almost loses to Huston but he's so unstoppable, then leaves and couldn't beat Milwaukee with an even supporting cast because his other two all star players were out ?


Then he plays with an all star Olympic team that struggled against France and they are your average team, he's got everyone fooled with this nonsense, although he is an all star player, he's hasn't done anything except piggy back his rings on the backs of an already 70 plus regular season wining championship team that he should've been focused on beating himself when playing for The Thunder.

I am not buying into that fake hype because Dirk shot just as well as Durant and waited until he finally got his championship playing for Dallas, he didn't jump ship while still prime & young but struggled earning his championship; Durant wasn't past prime and on his way out like others who join championship teams, Duran was prime and young.

Just winning championships with your rival & shooting well while losing in the playoffs doesn't get you pas`anybody on the all time great list especially Kobe, or your top 20 NBA players, you have to earn your championships on your own team, likely James finally did in Cleveland, this joining super teams don't automatically give you all time great status.

Not in my book.

We have seen Durant's game before it's exactly like Dirk's game it's nothing new, it's just today's NBA have poor defenders.

Durant is doing the exact same things that he's done since he became an all star.


The Game Kevin Durant Met PRIME Dirk Nowitzki! EPIC Game 1 Duel Highlights | 2011 NBA Playoffs WCF


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5x9UoV9ii0


The same numbers but with a loss in the finals, it's the same Durant, he had the same & numbers but jumped ship, when he couldn't win, not accepted in my book.

So you agree that Durant is a superior scorer but Kobe has better intangibles..?

You came in hot as if this were an argument but then you didn’t address what I said and even echoed me in places..

[red1]

I respect kobe far more kd is better at basketball though.



the difference is that kd doesnt have to shoot ridiculous fadeaways. he just goes straight up on any defender.

[Foster5k]

Kobe. Durant ran with his tail between his legs to the Warriors. Kobe a different animal. Peak Kobe with mamba mentality > Durant with rat mentality. Predator vs Prey

[Number34]

On first thought I wanna say Kobe, but Durant is probably the best perimeter scorer ever....there is pretty much no drop off from his regular season play to the postseason. As great as Kobe was he didn't always raise his game regualr season -->playoffs.
But anyways comparing primes i'd say KD as he probably beats Kobe in most categories aside from man defense and playmaking, which Kobe did not do consistently. However at their absolute peak/best, I'm taking Kobe.

[ClipperRevival]

Kobe. Durant ran with his tail between his legs to the Warriors. Kobe a different animal. Peak Kobe with mamba mentality > Durant with rat mentality. Predator vs Prey

This.

KD might've been slightly better in a vacuum but Kobe had that killer mentality while KD had the opposite. Plus, let's not forget, PEAK Kobe was a bad man too.

https://c.tenor.com/nG6Y2_MjcjAAAAAC/kobe-yes.gif

[ClipperRevival]

Kobe was the superior facilitator (can't overlook this HUGE factor. Kobe was much better at creating for others), which also meant better passer, better handles, footwork, on the ball defender, superior tough shot maker, better at creating steals and jumping passing lanes. Not to mention, intangibles like killer mentality and never taking a step back.

So this notion that KD was superior in everything isn't true.

[Cold soul]

This.

KD might've been slightly better in a vacuum but Kobe had that killer mentality while KD had the opposite. Plus, let's not forget, PEAK Kobe was a bad man too.

https://c.tenor.com/nG6Y2_MjcjAAAAAC/kobe-yes.gif

If I'm starting a franchise I'm taking Kobe over Durant each and every time.

[SouBeachTalents]

I would love to see Durant in place of Kobe on the '08-'10 Lakers, see how he'd fare in a far less offensively friendly era, or against Boston who LeBron & Kobe both really struggled against. Prior to his insane numbers on Golden State & Brooklyn, Durant's efficiency (outside 2012) dropped quite significantly in the playoff on OKC

[ClipperRevival]

If I'm starting a franchise I'm taking Kobe over Durant each and every time.

Well yeah, because KD gonna leave after a few seasons.:yaohappy:

[ClipperRevival]

Kobe also had the superior off hand, was quicker and could explode more quickly off a hop step gather in traffic off 2 feet. KD was a little too long to be able to do that in traffic. He was a long strider who only jumped off 1 foot. So Kobe could exploit clogged Ds a little better at times.

[Cold soul]

Well yeah, because KD gonna leave after a few seasons.:yaohappy:

Well not just that I just feel Kobe is the better all around player. :confusedshrug:

[FKAri]

Kobe. Less holes and more tools in his game. But in the right circumstances, KD can be the better player. By circumstances I mean matchups, teammates, game state, etc. Not in terms of "he's feeling it" or "when his shot is falling" since Kobe was just as deadly if not more, when he got hot.

[Axe]

Going for kobe if it involves being effective on both ends.

[No Sir]

KD, pretty easily too.

[lakerstekkenn]

So you agree that Durant is a superior scorer but Kobe has better intangibles..?

You came in hot as if this were an argument but then you didn’t address what I said and even echoed me in places..

Durant like Dirk had the advantage in size but a smaller Kobe slowed him down when he was young & made him take bad shots beating him in the playoffs, while a young Kobe had everything early footwork handles could slash and play better defense a young Kobe was unstoppable shredded the Spurs twin towers easily embarrassing them, Kobe was so incredible even Shaq said he's the best player in the World at that early age just coming out of high school, but the life troubles halted his growth and the brake up took away from more championships, but he shut everyone up and won two more rings so no Durant isn't better then Kobe at their young ages Kobe was better all over the court.

So no Durant isn't the superior scorer then Kobe, Durant is another Dirk playing in a time period against teams that don't play incredible defense,they play soft defense and just let's everyone score points, Dirk would feast off of this soft defense and replace Dirk with Durant on the Worriers nothing changes and replace Dirk with Durant on the Nets and USA Basketball team and nothing changes.

Everyone is caught up in the moment when we have seen this before Durant is another Dirk while Kobe is another Jordan.

Jordan & Kobe are better then Dirk & Durant at everything scoring defense handles Basketball IQ winning everything while Durant is a scorer and doesn't play defense his energy is scoring he's not putting up incredible defensive effort, has Durant ever been named all defensive team honors ?

Kobe Most All-Defensive First Team honors won, career: 9 (tied with Michael Jordan, Gary Payton, and Kevin Garnett)


Kobe also scored just like Durant even outscoring a complete team in the three quarters, so no Durant isn't a better scorer then Kobe because Kobe was doing this kind of stuff on a nightly basses.

Kobe Bryant 62 Points in 3 Quarters vs Mavericks (Outscores Mavs) - 2005.12.20


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stu1w9QhlNA

Kobe Bryant Scores 33 Of His 65 PTS In The 4Q Of OT Thriller

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqvOq3b4TRQ


Kobe Bryant 52 Points in 3 Quarters vs Jazz (30 in 3rd) - 2006.11.30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwus3OwzCWU

Kobe Bryant 50 Points vs Hornets (4th straight 50+ Point Game) - 2007.03.23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns0647g3MP0

Did everyone somehow forget how good of a scorer Kobe was ? he gad a terrible team around him and was scoring like crazy putting up incredible numbers Durant who ? :roll:

[lakerstekkenn]

Durant isn't doing anything Kobe already had done :oldlol:

Kobe Bryant 56 Points in 3 Quarters vs Grizzlies - 2002.01.14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5ythKmlmvQ


Kobe Bryant OLD MSG Record Highlights vs Knicks (2009.02.02) - 61 Points, MAMBA SHOW!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMluwP1C8gg



Kobe Bryant 60 Points vs Grizzlies 2007.03.22 - 3rd Straight 50+ Point Game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlEgX34WCAg


Kobe Only player to outscore a team in three quarters since the introduction of shot clock

[ShawkFactory]

Just for reference, in 2006 Kobe took over 30 shots 27 times.

Durant has taken 30 shots in a game 14 times in his career. And has 4 scoring titles.

Also:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ZnnBsjE_4

FOH with this Dirk shit :lol

Just because he can shoot like Dirk doesn’t mean that have literally anything else in common

[HoopsNY]

Just for reference, in 2006 Kobe took over 30 shots 27 times.

Durant has taken 30 shots in a game 14 times in his career. And has 4 scoring titles.

Also:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ZnnBsjE_4

FOH with this Dirk shit :lol

Just because he can shoot like Dirk doesn’t mean that have literally anything else in common

KD is the better scorer. But I don't think it widens the gap for him when you include Kobe's defense and leadership. Kobe was a better playmaker as well. Anyone who watched Kobe between 2001-05 saw just how good of a playmaker he was, and then later on in his career when he was tasked with being a PG for a short stretch.

[ShawkFactory]

KD is the better scorer. But I don't think it widens the gap for him when you include Kobe's defense and leadership. Kobe was a better playmaker as well. Anyone who watched Kobe between 2001-05 saw just how good of a playmaker he was, and then later on in his career when he was tasked with being a PG for a short stretch.

I mean I agree.

I said this in my original post:


As for overall, I'd still take Kobe because I value what he can do for a team mentally more than the small gap with KDs offensive superiority.

Dude seems to be ignoring that I said Kobe was the better overall player :lol

[lakerstekkenn]

Just for reference, in 2006 Kobe took over 30 shots 27 times.

Durant has taken 30 shots in a game 14 times in his career. And has 4 scoring titles.

Also:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T7ZnnBsjE_4

FOH with this Dirk shit :lol

Just because he can shoot like Dirk doesn’t mean that have literally anything else in common

Durant had the advantage in help just like Dirk but your not going around claiming Dirk is the greatest ever in scoring, Kobe was being doubled triple teamed at times with his D league help Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Sasha as help ? he's shooting all by himself just to win games, so his percentage will drop while getting triple teamed, while Durant has Curry Thomson and three point killers, if Kobe had that type of help he would've shot 50% because he's always open and not double teamed what's his shooting percentage with Shaq and the three deep Lakers ? before injuries in 2004 his shoulder injury ? Kobe had a lot on his mind to deal with in 2004 so that won't work, his freedom reputation was on the line, so this obviously this effected his game anybody's game would've been affected, plus fatigue from 3 straight finals appearances.

2003-04: Time to "Shoulder" the Burden

After offseason surgery on his right shoulder, Kobe Bryant missed action after he re-aggravated the surgically repaired shoulder midway through the 2003-04 season.

Given this was the season Kobe spent splitting time between the basketball and legal court, his shoulder was probably the least of his worries.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1015940-a-gruesome-look-at-kobe-bryants-injury-history



Check the stats of Kobe's shooting percentage with help with players that could shoot what's his percentage against the Spurs western conference finals in that sweep ? compared to playing with D league talent after Shaq left being double teamed ?



Game 1 against the twin tower Spurs deep team Kobe shot 19 of 35 that's 54% so after that Kobe forgot how to shoot or his shots became more difficult and increased due to lack of help and double teamed plus fatigue ?

Game 2 11 of 24 45%

Game 3 14 of 27 51%

Game 4 10 of 19 52%

Game 5, 8 of 20 40%

Kobe career average is a 44% shooter, but add him carrying his teammates for years in his prime forced to shoot difficult shots.

Durants career average is 49% but he's always had help then going to his super team the Worriers shooting becomes easy because of not worrying about double & triple teams.

Kobe 44% vs Durant 49% but the games don't reflect Durant shooting 49% because he's not shooting at that high percentage all of the time in games, this is deception, because he's with The Worriers so he's shooting better.


Now Keven Durant in 2011 against the Mavericks western conference finals shooting percentage is no better then Kobe's at times.

Game 1 10 of 18 55%

Game 2 11 of 23 47%

Game 3 7 of 22 31%

Game 4 9 of 22 40%

Game 5 8 of 20 30%

What's this terrible shooting percentage by Durant and good shooting percentage by Kobe and The Spurs are a better defensive team then The Mavericks.



What did Dirk shoot ?

Game 1 12 of 15 80%

Game 2 10 of 17 58%

Game 3 7 of 21 33%

Game 4 12 of 20 60%

Game 5 8 of 15 53%



Oklahoma City Thunder vs Golden State Warriors western conference finals.

Durant shooting percentage ?

Game 1 10 of 30 33%

Game 2 11 of 18 61%

Game 3 10 of 15 66%

Game 4 8 of 24 33%

Game 5 12 of 31 38%

Game 6 10 of 31 32%

Game 7 10 of 19 52%

Check Durant's stats with the Worriers in the finals against Cleveland they become even better because he's got incredible help around him, it's easier to score.

Check Durant's stats with the Nets against the Bucks his stats come back down to Earth he's not shooting like he shot playing on the Worriers June 19, 2021

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202106190BRK.html


https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201706120GSW.html

Check Kobe's stats NBA finals against The Magic he's shooting just like Durant with normal help of less talented help.

Check his stats compared with Durant vs The Worriers western confidence finals against Kobe's in the finals against The Magic.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200906140ORL.html

Kobe 47% vs Durant 33%

Kobe 45% vs Durant 61%

Kobe 44% vs Durant 66%

Kobe 35% vs Durant 33%

Kobe 43% vs Durant 38%



So they both even out, Durant is higher at times but Durant still shot poorly at times game 1 shooting 33% other games 33%, 38% and 32% but has great percentage at times around 60%, while Kobe is shoots 47% 45% 35% and 43% Durant jumps to 61% & 66% from 33%, Kobe shooting is more consistent then Durants shooting percentage, Durant drops to 33% from a high shooting percentage, while Kobe's remains consistent except one bad game at 35% probably due to fatigue or having an off night, Durant also drops off from a high percentage from 61% to 33 % this happens to everyone, so your attacking players because of poor shooting nights won't work, because even Durant had poor percentage shooting nights in the playoffs, in the most important games of his career against the champions and even he shot poorly at times 33%.


I can also play this game with Jordan's shooting percentage being good to okay to poor at times in the finals.

Seattle Super Sonics at Chicago Bulls NBA finals 1996.

Jordan 9 of 18 50%

Game 2 9 of 22 40%

Game 3 11 of 23 47%

Game 4 6 of 19 31%

Game 5 11 of 22 50%

Game 6 5 of 19 26% 22 points ?

it's not a blowout game the Bulls beat Seattle 87 Bulls to 75 Seattle and Jordan's shooting percentage is 26% ?

Jordan game 6 NBA finals 5 of 19 shooting 26% 22 points Kobe 6 of 24 shooting 25% in game 7 NBA finals 23 points 15 rebounds, so both Kobe and Jordan had bad finals close out games. Durant western conference finals vs Dallas similar stats Game 5, 8 of 20, 30%, attacking players like Kobe because of low shooting percentage important games, will not work with me :no: this happened to Jordan and Durant also :confusedshrug:

“Michael Jordan was terrible from the field in Game 6 of the 1996 NBA Finals”: Dennis Rodman’s play helped Chicago Bulls beat Seattle SuperSonics despite the GOAT’s hiccups


The 1996 DPOY, Gary Payton did a tremendous job of defending Jordan in Games 4-6. Payton limited MJ to an inefficient 36.7% shooting from the field in Games Four, Five, and Six.

https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-michael-jordan-was-terrible-from-the-field-in-game-6-of-the-1996-nba-finals-dennis-rodmans-play-helped-chicago-bulls-beat-seattle-supersonics-despite-the-goats-hiccups/


https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199606160CHI.html


Anybody can play this bad game shooting percentage with anybody, including Jordan.

[ShawkFactory]

Durant had the advantage in help just like Dirk but your not going around claiming Dirk is the greatest ever in scoring

I see what that other dude was talking about. You start an extremely look post with a really stupid sentence.

I'll repeat myself: Durant and Dirk have very different scoring skillsets. The fact that they both are great shooters is really the only thing they have in common.

I don't know why you keep mentioning Dirk in this conversation...

[Charlie Sheen]

Kobe won 5 championships for the Lakers. Durant won 0 for the team i root for. Kobe was better. Case closed :lol

[lakerstekkenn]

I see what that other dude was talking about. You start an extremely look post with a really stupid sentence.

I'll repeat myself: Durant and Dirk have very different scoring skillsets. The fact that they both are great shooters is really the only thing they have in common.

I don't know why you keep mentioning Dirk in this conversation...

Because past prime Dirk shot better then prime Durant in their western confidence battle, that's why, it's nothing new.


This is what you posters do.

Game 6, 5 of 19 26% 22 points ? Kobe :facepalm

Those are is Jordan stats against Seattle close out game Rodman bailed Jordan out.

Game 5, 8 of 20 30% :roll: Kobe :oldlol:

Those are Durant stats against Dallas.

Everyone has bad playoff games including Jordan and Durant.

Durant joins The Worriers and his stats jump from normal to incredible ? ask yourself why ? it's because he's on a championship team with deadly three point shooters making a super team, with himself, so he's shooting better, put Jordan & Kobe with those Worriers and they don't miss shots because they have incredible three point shooters their assist sky rocket because of the double teams and assist or one on one play they wouldn't miss,, you can't just ignore this fact.

Durant couldn't do it with his all star team so he bailed out joining his rival and that's not cool, he's not getting that praise from me just because he's looking good by forming this super team.

You do understand the defense Shane put on Kobe and Kobe shot like Durant ? it's nothing new, Kobe had better defenders on him.

Kobe shot 16 of 27 59% against great defense, Kobe has shot incredible also like Durant has.

Shane's hand was blocking Kobe's vision right in his face and Kobe went off, Shane just shook his head in disbelief :confusedshrug: Shane started fouling Kobe by hitting his arm but the refs wasn't calling them.

Kobe Bryant Full Highlights vs Rockets 2009 WCSF GM2 - 40 Pts, Self Alley-Oop


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi1MQ3SsWwY

Your not fooling anybody :no:

[ShawkFactory]

Because past prime Dirk shot better then prime Durant in their western confidence battle, that's why, it's nothing new.



Lol what? The year Dirk was 5th in MVP voting and after the postseason was widely regarded as a top 3 player in basketball? That "past his prime" Dirk? The year Durant was 22?

And what does Dirk shooting better over the course of 5 games have to do with their respective scoring skillsets?

You're even going as far as listing individual games..

I'm so confused about the arguments you're trying to make :lol

[lakerstekkenn]

Lol what? The year Dirk was 5th in MVP voting and after the postseason was widely regarded as a top 3 player in basketball? That "past his prime" Dirk?

And what does Dirk shooting better over the course of 5 games one time have to do with their respective scoring skillsets? Even going as for to list individual games..

I'm so confused about the arguments you're trying to make :lol

My mistake prime Dirk he was 32 years old in 2011 going against Durant.

[lakerstekkenn]

Lol what? The year Dirk was 5th in MVP voting and after the postseason was widely regarded as a top 3 player in basketball? That "past his prime" Dirk? The year Durant was 22?

And what does Dirk shooting better over the course of 5 games have to do with their respective scoring skillsets?

You're even going as far as listing individual games..

I'm so confused about the arguments you're trying to make :lol

Individual games that mattered western conference finals Durant didn't show up against Dallas and the Worriers he shot poorly according to your standards of bashing Kobe's sometimes poor numbers, let's be fair Durant isn't the defensive player Kobe was all defensive team and a better scorer those alone trump Durant so no Durant isn't a better player then Kobe was, that's my point just individual sometimes incredible shooting isn't the all around test that's my point just because Durant has some incredible shooting nights at times doesn't automatically crown him as the greatest scorer ever or a better scorer then Kobe because Dirk shot better in their series and Durant was guarding him, but there's this false impression that Durant is the better shooter then everyone, Kobe also shot incredible at times and had poor shooting in certain series everyone has done this and that's my point.

Everyone is just looking at Durant having good scoring nights but seem to forget Kobe & Jordan also Dirk also others have shot incredible numbers.

Kobe was named on the all defensive team how many times ? 12 times, while Durant has never been mentioned in this conversation ? why are we even discussing who's the all around better player between the two ?

Yeah play confused :lol

[ShawkFactory]

Individual games that mattered western conference finals Durant didn't show up against Dallas and the Worriers he shot poorly according to your standards of bashing Kobe's sometimes poor numbers, let's be fair Durant isn't the defensive player Kobe was all defensive team and a better scorer those alone trump Durant so no Durant isn't a better player then Kobe was, that's my point just individual sometimes incredible shooting isn't the all around test that's my point just because Durant has some incredible shooting nights at times doesn't automatically crown him as the greatest scorer ever or a better scorer then Kobe because Dirk shot better in their series and Durant was guarding him, but there's this false impression that Durant is the better shooter then everyone, Kobe also shot incredible at times and had poor shooting in certain series everyone has done this and that's my point.

Everyone is just looking at Durant having good scoring nights but seem to forget Kobe & Jordan also Dirk also others have shot incredible numbers.

Kobe was named on the all defensive team how many times ? 12 times, while Durant has never been mentioned in this conversation ? why are we even discussing who's the all around better player between the two ?

Yeah play confused :lol

Ok so the argument is that because sometimes guys have great shooting nights and sometimes guys have bad shooting nights...then no one is a better shooter or scorer than anyone else? And you wonder why someone might be confused as the what fvck you're trying to say :lol


why are we even discussing who's the all around better player between the two ?

I'm not

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

The entire core, Curry, Klay, Dray, Iggy. He took a team that didn't win a championship in 2016 to b2b titles

He took a 73 win team that beat him in the Western Final where he joined the next year to the championship title.

[lakerstekkenn]

Ok so the argument is that because sometimes guys have great shooting nights and sometimes guys have bad shooting nights...then no one is a better shooter or scorer than anyone else? And you wonder why someone might be confused as the what fvck you're trying to say :lol



I'm not


You are playing confused because you weren't aware that Durant and Jordan had bad shooting nights in the playoffs and finals 21% for Durant and 26% for Jordan, so how do we get past this ? everyone seems to be under the impression that Durant has always shot over 50% or not under 50% noway 21%, also Jordan but this is false due to being caught in the moment, once your caught in the moment everyone becomes the greatest off time, or trash, after bad games.



So Jordan shots 26% in the finals in a close out game and the media says Rodman bailed Jordan out, so obviously Durant is the greatest shooter even because he can't miss I have seen this myself in the 2021 Olympics and when Durant was playing for the Worriers, Jordan is trash jacking up 26 shots :lol luckily he made his free throws.

So Durant is better because he's a better shooter :pimp:





Kobe also shot 25% with 23 points 15 rebounds :roll: Durant is way better because he doesn't miss, case closed.

Then the rebuttal well Durant shot sometimes 33% and actually shot 21% worst ever in the playoffs against Dirk & Dallas in 2016.


Their response well that doesn't matter because Dirk has a different shooting style :confusedshrug:



Kevin Durant record Worst field goal percentage in a playoff game. (minimum of 30 attempts): 21.2%

So Durant shot worse then anybody in the history of the NBA playoffs percentage wise ?


Dallas Mavericks at Oklahoma City Thunder Box Score, April 18, 2016
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604180OKC.html



Worst FG Pct In Playoff Game - Minimum 30 FGA
Shot Clock Era Durant.



2016 Kevin Durant 21.2% 2016 against Dallas ? a incredibly bad shooting night, but you guys try and trash Kobe ?



1997 Michael Jordan 25.7 % what ?


Obviously Kobe is the greatest shooter ever ? Nope.



Jordan and Kobe are all around better Basketball players then Durant defense and offense Durant hasn't been awarded all defensive team honors unlike Kobe and Jordan who played incredible defense, well Durant shot better then everyone, well that's not true.



Kobe has shot lights out also against Huston in the playoffs and has out shot an entire Basketball team Dallas with Dirk for three quarters an entire Basketball team ? so obviously Kobe is the greatness shooter ever ? nope he's not but he's done incredible things, Jordan has shot better then Kobe has.


Do me a favor go through the list of accomplishments of Kobe Durant and Jordan.


Then explain to everyone how Durant is an all around better player then Kobe, forget these terrible shooting nights by everyone, just look at the achievement list differences and accomplishments on defense & offense, everything.

List of career achievements by Kevin Durant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Kevin_Durant#:~:tex t=Regular%20season%20%20%20%20Season%20%20,the%20B roo%20...%20%208%20more%20rows%20

List of career achievements by Kobe Bryant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Kobe_Bryant#:~:text =Regular%20season%20%20%20%20Season%20%20,%20%2027 .8%20%2018%20more%20rows%20



List of career achievements by Michael Jordan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Michael_Jordan


Durant is Not the better player then Kobe, Kobe is up there with Jordan achievement defense scoring rings awards recognition, James is catching Kobe and Jordan but jumped teams and formed his super team, so fans are upset with James because he didn't do it the correct way, Durant did worse.

[ShawkFactory]

I can't tell if you're fvcking with me or if you're just really stupid.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and lean towards to former.

[SouBeachTalents]

I can't tell if you're fvcking with me or if you're just really stupid.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and lean towards to former.
Bro, I'm surprised you read that dudes posts. I'll read the first sentence and it's always terrible English, essentially gibberish every time. After that I refuse to read the rest of his encyclopedia length posts :lol

[lakerstekkenn]

Bro, I'm surprised you read that dudes posts. I'll read the first sentence and it's always terrible English, essentially gibberish every time. After that I refuse to read the rest of his encyclopedia length posts :lol



Check the accomplishments side to side and explain to everyone how Durant is somehow this overall better player then Kobe ? start with Kobe's 12 all defense teams honors with Durant's 0 honors because that's all that I need, Kobe destroy's Durant, both compared with the effort on defense and the votes confirm this, Durant doesn't have a single all defensive team honor, not one.



We can argue scoring till the cows come home, Kobe has more scoring accomplishments points per quarter points per game outscoring an entire team by himself in three quarters, destroying Huston's defense with incredible scoring in the playoffs the accomplishments are incredible levels above Durant's scoring highlights at times only Jordan has better scoring as a guard but there's others with incredible scoring numbers like Wilt. NBA record – Most points per game in a season (50.4 in the 1961–62 season) Also holds the next three spots with 44.8 in 1962–63, 38.4 in 1960–61 and 37.6 in 1959–60.

Wilt NBA record – Most points in a season (4,029 in 1961–62) Also holds the second-highest record with 3,586 in 1962–63


Chamberlains scoring records

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wilt_Chamberlain#Li st_of_records_and_feats


But it's overall play and Kobe is better then Durant and it's not a debate, it's not even close.


South Beach Talents The entire core, Curry, Klay, Dray, Iggy. He took a team that didn't win a championship in 2016 to b2b titles.

Golden Stat Worriers with Curry Klay 2015 67-15 Won Finals but got beat in 2016 against James, so that argument won't work, they already were champions but just got beat in 7 games after having a 3 games to 1 game lead, so Durant didn't need to join them, if Cleveland could beat them then The Thunder could've done the same, Durant left because he wanted his easy championships and that's not flying with certain NBA fans.


Why you brought that up is puzzling.

[Axe]

Bro, I'm surprised you read that dudes posts. I'll read the first sentence and it's always terrible English, essentially gibberish every time. After that I refuse to read the rest of his encyclopedia length posts :lol
That's what you call being 3ball-esque

[ImKobe]

Kobe because of his playmaking & defense. Durant's stats with GSW look nicer in the POs but again it's him playing for GSW with Steph & Klay spacing the floor in the era where the league is breaking ORTG records.

KD in the Playoffs for OKC averaged 28.8 ppg w/ 45.5%FG/32.9%3PT with a 57.5%TS (he was worse than his average in '16 with 28.4 ppg on 54.2%TS) so he wasn't above Kobe in the scoring department on a team with similar spacing. As far as passing & defense goes, Kobe's clearly better so if you take KD's prime/peak over Kobe's it has to be because he was a better scorer, which I don't think is the case here. Old man Kobe gave up a scoring title to Durant when he could have just scored 38 or whatever it was against the Kings to win it but sat out.

[Nike D'Antoni]

Depends on the team I guess.

[Manny98]

KD, pretty easily too.

This, no offense to Kobe but KD has a top 10 prime ever, arguably top 5

[1987_Lakers]

This, no offense to Kobe but KD has a top 10 prime ever, arguably top 5

lol

MJ
LeBron
Hakeem
Shaq
Kareem

Clearly had better peaks/primes.

[Yeezy]

peak?


from reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/cvzmec/is_kobe_bryants_81_point_game_in_2006_a_greater/

"Is Kobe Bryant's 81 point game in 2006 a greater performance than Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game in 1962?
Let's ignore the fact that Wilt has 6 out of the top 10 single game scoring performances all time and just focus on the top 2; Wilt's 100 and Jalen Rose's Nightmare.

Let's also ignore ancillary stats since we only focus on scoring prowess for this game (although Wilt's 25 rebounds is still crazy).

The pace of the game was very different back in 1962 versus 2006, and overall, the Philadelphia Warriors shot 115 times in that game compared to the Lakers 88 times. Both teams shot over the average shot per game per year with the Lakers shooting 10% more than the league average 79.7 shots per game, and the Warriors shooting 7% more than the 107.7 shots per game average in 1962.

When you look individually, it appears that Wilt contributed less to the overall scoring output of his team, and on less efficiency, than Kobe did.

Wilt scored 100 of 169 points (59.17%) on 63 of 115 shots (54.78%) and made 36 of 63 (57.14%) shots. This is compared to Kobe who scored 81 of 122 points (66%) on 46 of 88 shots (52.27%) making 28 of 42 shots (66.67%)

So it shows that Kobe contributed more to his team's overall points on less percentage of shots.

On the free throw side, things are alot more even and slightly favor Wilt where he made 65% of his teams free throws while taking 61.5% of total free throws versus Kobe who make 64.3% of free throws and took 60.6% of the teams' overall free throws.

Now if you adjusted Kobe to take the same amount of shots comparatively to Wilt on the current pace, it would mean Kobe would have taken 48 total shots instead of 46, meaning he most likely would have made one and brought his total to 83 points.

If you adjust the Lakers to the same pace as the Warriors, that would result in 27 extra shots for the Lakers, and 15 extra shots for Kobe, and 19 extra free throws, 11 of them being shot by Kobe.

Around 25% of Kobe's shots in the game were 3 pointers, and the team was shooting at 47.7% so we can assume that Kobe would have made at least 7 of those extra 15 shots, with at least 1 (maybe 2) being a 3 pointer, but lets just call in 6 extra 2 pointers and 1 extra 3 for an adjusted extra point total of 15, bringing his total points to 98.

If we do the same for the free throws, with Kobe shooting somewhere between the team 85% and his 90% average, that would be an extra 9 points for Kobe bringing his potential total to 107 points.

So in my scientific assessment during this boring ass off-season, I deem that Kobe Bryant's 81 point game is a great performance than Wilt's 100 point game."





kobes 81 and 35ppg average in 2006 when adjusted for pace are the greatest single season average and single game point total in history. lukas 60/20/10 adjusted to 2006 pace is probably 45/12/7 or something lol





https://i.ibb.co/zJvcySw/Screen-Shot-2022-12-28-at-8-47-40-AM.png

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/nba-insider-tom-haberstroh/rockets-james-harden-really-having-best-scoring-season-ever





peak kobe is the goat scorer with 1st team all defense


nobody tops peak kobe. not when adjusting for pace


his 2 rings without Shaq are actually real as well.. durants arent

[red1]

peak is debatable better player overall might even be KD


kobe is far greater though

[davidkimchi]

how about Jeremy Lin's peak when Linsanity swept the nation. Shame it didn't last too long though but it has got to be up there

[Im Still Ballin]

That's tough. Kobe's advantage is playmaking/creation and leadership. KD's advantage is shooting and scoring efficiency. Defensive impact and offensive diversity are about the same.

Maybe a slight nod to KD? However, it's hard to evaluate efficiency when Kobe's best years were in the '00s. As ImKobe stated, KD's efficiency wasn't astronomical in the playoffs with OKC. It was solid but not godly like it was in the regular season. Big sample size, too.


Kobe Playoffs '06-'12: 56.1% TS // 49.9% eFG // 33.7% 3PT // 84% FT - (101 games played)
KD Playoffs '10-'16: 57.5% TS // 50.3% eFG // 32.9% 3PT // 84.8% FT - (91 games played)

To compare the regular season from those seasons:


Kobe Regular Season '06-'12: 55.8% TS // 49.2% eFG // 33.9% 3PT // 84.4% FT
KD Regular Season '10-'16: 62.1% TS // 54.4% eFG // 38.3% 3PT // 88.6% FT

Durant's mid-range game wasn't as refined earlier in his career. Kobe's tremendous offensive diversity gave his scoring game great robustness. It was maintained from the regular season into the playoffs. Someone is harder to shut down when they can score in several ways.

I think it's closer than some in this thread are suggesting.

[Wally450]

I go Kobe from the eye test. Peaked at a time where it was tougher to score compared to KD. I'll take Kobe's 2009 Finals over KD hopping to the Warriors and doing what he did.

[ArbitraryWater]

This thread was done right after KD's best ever post-season and he was kinda a winner of hearts with how he lost that year.

All in all I still think its pretty hard to rank KD. Outside of GS, every single year he's ended up coming up short one way or another. Really only 2012 and 2021 go by blame-less.

It's possible that 2017-2018 KD was his peak anyway. I would have loved to see him somewhere non-GSW.

[Sulico]

Kobe was scary on D, Durant is not at all, so the answer is Kobe.

[warriorfan]

I go Kobe from the eye test. Peaked at a time where it was tougher to score compared to KD. I'll take Kobe's 2009 Finals over KD hopping to the Warriors and doing what he did.

this

[WhiteKyrie]

Kobe. He was a more versatile scorer. Did it in a more physical league with more difficult scoring climate. Better leader, better competitor, and played way higher caliber defense.

[tpols]

Kobe had much stronger intangibles than KD in terms of battle hardening teammates in practice. Look it up. Kobe used to butcher his teammates in practice to prepare for the real thing just like MJ did. Where as KD has zero off court presence or leadership. He's basically just a 10/10 side piece where as Kobe was the main course.