The Jordan formula

[kennygriffin]

https://ak.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/1126714/thumb/7.jpg

there is no one type of formula to rank players. its a collection of everything. thats why we put Michael Jordan #1 all time and above kareem and russell. if it truly was just about a career they're both above jordan. but we take all the other aspects into account to put him as GOAT. so i've decided to use the Jordan goat formula as a tool to rank every player in or around the top 10 all time using:

- Peak/Prime stats
- Longevity/career stats
- individual Awards
- Championships
- prestige for those championships
- talent/skill
- era/rules
- aesthetics
- majority opinion/respect

Grades:

A+ ( 105 points )
A ( 100 points )
A- ( 95 points )
B+ ( 90 points )
B ( 85 points )
B- ( 80 points )
C+ ( 75 points )
C ( 70 points )
C- ( 65 points )
D+ ( 60 points )
D ( 55 points )
D- ( 50 points )
F ( 0 points )




#1 Michael Jordan

- Peak/Prime stats ( A+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( A- )
- individual Awards ( A+ )
- Championships ( A )
- prestige for those championships ( A+ )
- talent/skill ( A- )
- era/rules ( A+ )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 102.2 ( A )



#2 Kobe Bryant

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( A )
- individual Awards ( A- )
- Championships ( A )
- prestige for those championships ( A- )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( A )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 100.5 ( A )



#3 Hakeem Olajuwon

- Peak/Prime stats ( A- )
- Longevity/career stats ( B+ )
- individual Awards ( A- )
- Championships ( B- )
- prestige for those championships ( A )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( A+ )
- aesthetics ( A )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 97.2 ( A- )



#4 Larry Bird

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( C- )
- individual Awards ( A- )
- Championships ( B+ )
- prestige for those championships ( A )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( A+ )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 96.6 ( A- )


#5 Magic Johnson

- Peak/Prime stats ( B )
- Longevity/career stats ( C- )
- individual Awards ( A )
- Championships ( A )
- prestige for those championships ( A- )
- talent/skill ( B+ )
- era/rules ( A+ )
- aesthetics ( A )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 93.8 ( B+ )



#6 Tim Duncan

- Peak/Prime stats ( B )
- Longevity/career stats ( B+ )
- individual Awards ( A )
- Championships ( A )
- prestige for those championships ( A- )
- talent/skill ( B+ )
- era/rules ( A )
- aesthetics ( C+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 93.3 ( B+ )



#7 Kareem Abdul Jabbar

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( A+ )
- individual Awards ( A+ )
- Championships ( A )
- prestige for those championships ( A- )
- talent/skill ( B+ )
- era/rules ( A )
- aesthetics ( F )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total average = 88.3 ( B )



#8 Shaquille O'neal

- Peak/Prime stats ( A+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( B+ )
- individual Awards ( A- )
- Championships ( A- )
- prestige for those championships ( A )
- talent/skill ( D )
- era/rules ( A )
- aesthetics ( F )
- majority opinion/respect ( A )

total = 82.2 ( B- )


#9 Wilt Chamberlain

- Peak/Prime stats ( A+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( A )
- individual Awards ( A+ )
- Championships ( B- )
- prestige for those championships ( B+ )
- talent/skill ( C+ )
- era/rules ( D- )
- aesthetics ( F )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 78.8 ( C+ )

#10 Bill Russell

- Peak/Prime stats ( C+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( D )
- individual Awards ( A )
- Championships ( A+ )
- prestige for those championships ( A- )
- talent/skill ( D+ )
- era/rules ( D- )
- aesthetics ( D )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 77.7 ( C+ )


#11 Steph Curry

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( D- )
- individual Awards ( B+ )
- Championships ( B+ )
- prestige for those championships ( D- )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( F )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A )

total = 76.6 ( C+ )



#12 Kevin Durant

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( B+ )
- individual Awards ( A- )
- Championships ( B- )
- prestige for those championships ( F )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( F )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( B+ )

total = 73.8 ( C )



#13 LeBron James

- Peak/Prime stats ( A+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( A+ )
- individual Awards ( A+ )
- Championships ( A- )
- prestige for those championships ( F )
- talent/skill ( B+ )
- era/rules ( F )
- aesthetics ( D )
- majority opinion/respect ( C+ )

Total = 70 ( C )

[ShawkFactory]

#1 Michael Jordan

talent/skill ( A- )

Stopped reading there.

I'm sure the rest was riveting.

[And1AllDay]

Stopped reading there.

I'm sure the rest was riveting.

:oldlol: same

[kennygriffin]

Stopped reading there.

I'm sure the rest was riveting.

Jordan could do everything on both ends with both hands and had amazing foot work, post ups, counters, trick shots and only lacked range on his shot. and it was like 1 foot inside the 3 point line where his cut off was considering his percentage during the years they moved the line in. aside from that he was practically flawless. only a few guys were more skilled than MJ like kobe/hakeem/bird/durant/curry types


you think jordan being a 95 skill out of 105 is too much? really?


also if a player has elite defensive skills i give a boost to their score

[8Ball]

Stopped reading there.

I'm sure the rest was riveting.

He gave Kobe Bryant A for "prestige of championships.

Meanwhile:


https://live.staticflickr.com/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_z.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

He gave Kobe Bryant A for "prestige of championships.

Meanwhile:


https://live.staticflickr.com/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_z.jpg
OP claims Kobe's 2000 ring > LeBron's 2016 :lol

[kennygriffin]

Prestige for championships for Jordan should be at a F.

A bunch of bum teams about as good as the 2020 Miami Heat.

what you're failing to realize is that back then there was this thing called physicality so you needed enforcers. and there weren't any colluded superteams with a bunch of former stars as role players like on todays contenders

thats precisely why this era gets an F in prestige and the 90s gets an A+


you needed bigs that could rebound and fill a role defensively inside instead of just filling the spot with another sharp shooter thats barely 6'8 because the center position was actually a part of basketball back then

[sdot_thadon]

What a laughable thread. How can anyone begin to even consider taking you serious with such Gulfs in logic. 1st of all the idea that aesthetics and the other opinion based things are even categories is pretty cute. But let's pretend this was a real attempt for just one second:

How does Mj get an A for titles and Russell only get an A+ for double the rings?

How can anyone else have an A+ for peak prime stats alongside Wilt?

I could keep picking at your logic but the second is up.

[kennygriffin]

OP claims Kobe's 2000 ring > LeBron's 2016 :lol

well yeah....a sidekick ring IS worth more than a fake one


2016 was a colluded big 3 ring chase with a rigged suspension to draymond green and a bail out by 3 by kyrie irving

i give lebron zero credit for it. especially coming in the 2010's era where theres no physicality

plus lebrons been proven to be on steroids. so how can anything he does be legit

IF none of these asterisks were present then sure lebrons 2016 title would look great. but reality says otherwise

[kennygriffin]

What a laughable thread. How can anyone begin to even consider taking you serious with such Gulfs in logic. 1st of all the idea that aesthetics and the other opinion based things are even categories is pretty cute. But let's pretend this was a real attempt for just one second:

How does Mj get an A for titles and Russell only get an A+ for double the rings?

How can anyone else have an A+ for peak prime stats alongside Wilt?

I could keep picking at your logic but the second is up.

its not illogical to give more credit to a person for being able to score with skill rather than brute force or just taking advantage of smaller guys

this has been part of evaluating guys for a long time. we use it to put jordan over kareem all the time. why shouldn't it be used for other comparisons

[Mauzah]

Appreciate the effort involved for your rankings. I've realized after Jordan as the clear #1 it's hard for me to rank the remaining 9 players if I'm trying to do a top 10. I feel like the player positioning can shuffle so easily based on how I'm viewing the game.

It's like...

Group A
Jordan

Group B
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Lebron

Group C
Shaq
TD

Group D
Hakeem
KD

I purposely left out anyone pre 1980 because I honestly do not know enough to form a decent opinion. When I try to it's mostly based of how others feel about them. Like Kareem, he could be in either Group B or C in my mind. Maybe one day I'll try and study up.

But look at group B, I think any one of those four players could be ranked ahead of each other if you wanted argue for it. I'm sure the Lebron fans will be up on in arms but I don't think there's enough separation between that group to really solidify a clear cut ranking. Kobe somewhat feels like the biggest stretch but can anyone tell me that Magic was clearly better than Kobe? Posters here can surely make the argument but so can others for the flip side of that coin.

[kennygriffin]

He gave Kobe Bryant A for "prestige of championships.

Meanwhile:


https://live.staticflickr.com/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_z.jpg



i gave kobe an A-


2000 ring = B+ ( 85 )
2001 ring = A ( 100 )
2002 ring = A ( 100 )
2009 ring = A+ ( 105 )
2010 ring = A ( 100 )

total = 98 ( A- )

[SouBeachTalents]

Appreciate the effort involved for your rankings. I've realized after Jordan as the clear #1 it's hard for me to rank the remaining 9 players if I'm trying to do a top 10. I feel like the player positioning can shuffle so easily based on how I'm viewing the game.

It's like...

Group A
Jordan

Group B
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Lebron

Group C
Shaq
TD

Group D
Hakeem
KD

I purposely left out anyone pre 1980 because I honestly do not know enough to form a decent opinion. When I try to it's mostly based of how others feel about them. Like Kareem, he could be in either Group B or C in my mind. Maybe one day I'll try and study up.

But look at group B, I think any one of those four players could be ranked ahead of each other if you wanted argue for it. I'm sure the Lebron fans will be up on in arms but I don't think there's enough separation between that group to really solidify a clear cut ranking. Kobe somewhat feels like the biggest stretch but can anyone tell me that Magic was clearly better than Kobe? Posters here can surely make the argument but so can others for the flip side of that coin.
Absolutely terrible :lol Kobe an entire group above Shaq & Duncan, TWO above Hakeem :oldlol:

[kennygriffin]

Absolutely terrible :lol Kobe an entire group above Shaq & Duncan, TWO above Hakeem :oldlol:

all shaq and duncan have really is accomplishments and respect. they don't have that polarizing level of respect/fan worship/aesthetics/skill and other factors that separate them to many

i can see why someone would separate those players into different tiers

its not all about your value as a player because teams need size

[Lebron23]

I think it's time for Jeff to Ban the Op again.

[Mauzah]

Absolutely terrible :lol Kobe an entire group above Shaq & Duncan, TWO above Hakeem :oldlol:

I'll listen to reason. For the longest time I had Kobe as a fringe top 10 player but now I'm starting to think that his career has been massively underrated.

[warriorfan]

https://ak.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/1126714/thumb/7.jpg

there is no one type of formula to rank players. its a collection of everything. thats why we put Michael Jordan #1 all time and above kareem and russell. if it truly was just about a career they're both above jordan. but we take all the other aspects into account to put him as GOAT. so i've decided to use the Jordan goat formula as a tool to rank every player in or around the top 10 all time using:

- Peak/Prime stats
- Longevity/career stats
- individual Awards
- Championships
- prestige for those championships
- talent/skill
- era/rules
- aesthetics
- majority opinion/respect

Grades:

A+ ( 105 points )
A ( 100 points )
A- ( 95 points )
B+ ( 90 points )
B ( 85 points )
B- ( 80 points )
C+ ( 75 points )
C ( 70 points )
C- ( 65 points )
D+ ( 60 points )
D ( 55 points )
D- ( 50 points )
F ( 0 points )




#1 Michael Jordan

- Peak/Prime stats ( A+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( A- )
- individual Awards ( A+ )
- Championships ( A )
- prestige for those championships ( A+ )
- talent/skill ( A- )
- era/rules ( A+ )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 102.2 ( A )



#2 Kobe Bryant

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( A )
- individual Awards ( A- )
- Championships ( A )
- prestige for those championships ( A- )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( A )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 100.5 ( A )



#3 Hakeem Olajuwon

- Peak/Prime stats ( A- )
- Longevity/career stats ( B+ )
- individual Awards ( A- )
- Championships ( B- )
- prestige for those championships ( A )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( A+ )
- aesthetics ( A )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 97.2 ( A- )



#4 Larry Bird

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( C- )
- individual Awards ( A- )
- Championships ( B+ )
- prestige for those championships ( A )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( A+ )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 96.6 ( A- )


#5 Magic Johnson

- Peak/Prime stats ( B )
- Longevity/career stats ( C- )
- individual Awards ( A )
- Championships ( A )
- prestige for those championships ( A- )
- talent/skill ( B+ )
- era/rules ( A+ )
- aesthetics ( A )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 93.8 ( B+ )



#6 Tim Duncan

- Peak/Prime stats ( B )
- Longevity/career stats ( B+ )
- individual Awards ( A )
- Championships ( A )
- prestige for those championships ( A- )
- talent/skill ( B+ )
- era/rules ( A )
- aesthetics ( C+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 93.3 ( B+ )



#7 Kareem Abdul Jabbar

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( A+ )
- individual Awards ( A+ )
- Championships ( A )
- prestige for those championships ( A- )
- talent/skill ( B+ )
- era/rules ( A )
- aesthetics ( F )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total average = 88.3 ( B )



#8 Shaquille O'neal

- Peak/Prime stats ( A+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( B+ )
- individual Awards ( A- )
- Championships ( A- )
- prestige for those championships ( A )
- talent/skill ( D )
- era/rules ( A )
- aesthetics ( F )
- majority opinion/respect ( A )

total = 82.2 ( B- )


#9 Wilt Chamberlain

- Peak/Prime stats ( A+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( A )
- individual Awards ( A+ )
- Championships ( B- )
- prestige for those championships ( B+ )
- talent/skill ( C+ )
- era/rules ( D- )
- aesthetics ( F )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 78.8 ( C+ )

#10 Bill Russell

- Peak/Prime stats ( C+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( D )
- individual Awards ( A )
- Championships ( A+ )
- prestige for those championships ( A- )
- talent/skill ( D+ )
- era/rules ( D- )
- aesthetics ( D )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )

total = 77.7 ( C+ )


#11 Steph Curry

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( D- )
- individual Awards ( B+ )
- Championships ( B+ )
- prestige for those championships ( D- )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( F )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A )

total = 76.6 ( C+ )



#12 Kevin Durant

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( B+ )
- individual Awards ( A- )
- Championships ( B- )
- prestige for those championships ( F )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( F )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( B+ )

total = 73.8 ( C )



#13 LeBron James

- Peak/Prime stats ( A+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( A+ )
- individual Awards ( A+ )
- Championships ( A- )
- prestige for those championships ( F )
- talent/skill ( B+ )
- era/rules ( F )
- aesthetics ( D )
- majority opinion/respect ( C+ )

Total = 70 ( C )

Interesting. Seems fairly accurate.

[MrFonzworth]

https://youtu.be/T_5vdYj2iI0

[Axe]

I think #11 is a fraud to be on this list, since he's the only one without any finals mvps in the modern era.

[kennygriffin]

I think #11 is a fraud to be on this list, since he's the only one without any finals mvps in the modern era.

well its not like he's ahead of anyone that has any legit finals mvps

and theres no other guys with top 10 potential

[3ba11]

Just compare Jordan and Lebron running down the court after they scored a cool or great field goal - Jordan's swag and jog is goat and wonderful to watch, while Lebron runs down the court like a kid - all fast, super-quick steps, no swagger, just not in Jordan's orbit

[Axe]

well its not like he's ahead of anyone that has any legit finals mvps

and theres no other guys with top 10 potential
Too bad you're retarded tho. All things considered, he can't be some spots above kong even in these awful rankings.

[kennygriffin]

Too bad you're retarded tho. All things considered, he can't be some spots above kong even in these awful rankings.

when you take away lebrons bogus accomplishments curry is above lebron because he actually has skill/respect and 1 real title even if its a non fmvp one

[8Ball]

well yeah....a sidekick ring IS worth more than a fake one


2016 was a colluded big 3 ring chase with a rigged suspension to draymond green and a bail out by 3 by kyrie irving

i give lebron zero credit for it. especially coming in the 2010's era where theres no physicality

plus lebrons been proven to be on steroids. so how can anything he does be legit

IF none of these asterisks were present then sure lebrons 2016 title would look great. but reality says otherwise

This is all:

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/excrement-dog-floor-shit-street-pavement-concept-picking-up-waste-cleaning-city-urban-environment-173061125.jpg

[8Ball]

OP claims Kobe's 2000 ring > LeBron's 2016 :lol

He's a troll like Manny98 that doesn't believe anything they are saying.

[Axe]

when you take away lebrons bogus accomplishments curry is above lebron because he actually has skill/respect and 1 real title even if its a non fmvp one
Stfu maggot. Come back to me once curry has had an iconic moment in the playoffs.

So far he has none.

[DevBooker'sMask]

If this is supposed to be a legit grading scale then the world thanks you for not becoming a professor.

[SATAN]

I think it's time for Jeff to Ban the Op again.

This. He seems like the biggest loser I've ever seen.

[kennygriffin]

This. He seems like the biggest loser I've ever seen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIxSvnSLNcE

[3ba11]

This. He seems like the biggest loser I've ever seen.


OP posted all the stats showing that Lebron reduces nearly every player type - this insightfulness makes you mad

[3ba11]

Imagine if you saw any of today's rookies doing 1-dribble pull-ups with hangtime like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0xJa4PpbyY&t=0m27s


A lot of people won't realize how great that is but it's goat ability at 21 years old - otherwordly ability that you don't see anyone else in history do - no one elevates and hangs like that on a jumper - only Michael..

If I saw any of today's rookies with ability like that, my jaw would drop to the floor.. He was almost the goat already before he even came into the league.. Bobby Knight said he was the best player he'd ever seen after coaching him in the 84' Olympics

[RogueBorg]

I think it's time for Jeff to Ban the Op again.

This isn't communist China.

[Airupthere]

The longevity is hurting the other players quite a bit like Larry and Magic. I think longevity should have less emphasis in ranking goats unless we are talking about a very short career. Perhaps 10-15 significant seasons is long enough as a cutoff. That is good enough proof. Anything beyond that does not really add up much. It's just diluting the whole thing.

[Airupthere]

Just compare Jordan and Lebron running down the court after they scored a cool or great field goal - Jordan's swag and jog is goat and wonderful to watch, while Lebron runs down the court like a kid - all fast, super-quick steps, no swagger, just not in Jordan's orbit

You mean like this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4zqpJga4I

[FKAri]

This is a cool formula. Let me try it.

Bran

- Peak/Prime stats ( S+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( S+ )
- individual Awards ( S+ )
- Championships ( S+ )
- prestige for those championships ( S+ )
- talent/skill ( S+ )
- era/rules ( S+ )
- aesthetics ( S+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( S+ )

total = 9001 ( :eek: )

LeGOAT! :applause:

[sdot_thadon]

Imagine if you saw any of today's rookies doing 1-dribble pull-ups with hangtime like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0xJa4PpbyY&t=0m27s

Lmao if any rookie did it today.....it'd just be a one dribble pull up jumper, nothing special. Then we would proceed to demand he work on his range and his post game. This isn't the fairy tale age any more.

[Iverson3]

This isn't communist China.

Kennethgriffin is a low IQ poster. And overall a terrible human being. He also looks like Fred Durst. And he ma that he is a dead beat dad. He said he impregnated some prostitute and his daughter is now 9 years old.

[Smoke117]

Kennethgriffin is a low IQ poster. And overall a terrible human being.

Pretty much. He's a dead beat father.

[kennygriffin]

Kennethgriffin is a high IQ poster. And overall a alpha human being. He also looks like a dream boat hunk. And hes happy to find out he might be a dad. He said he impregnated some chick and his daughter is now 9 years old.

https://i.ibb.co/mGb20M9/Screenshot-20210811-152606-Messenger.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/y8cVsDj/Screenshot-20210811-152728-Messenger.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/4VJjnRQ/Screenshot-20210811-152707-Messenger.jpg

[kennygriffin]

Pretty much. He's a dead beat father.

I was only speculating it was mine up until a month ago when the other guy got a test and it said it wasn't his. I'm actually happy cause I accomplished something most of you guys won't. it's the only true meaning of life

[MrFonzworth]

https://i.ibb.co/mGb20M9/Screenshot-20210811-152606-Messenger.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/y8cVsDj/Screenshot-20210811-152728-Messenger.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/4VJjnRQ/Screenshot-20210811-152707-Messenger.jpg

Ah I see you've taken my advice, studied it and applied it to your life without a second thought. This is where your life begins and my mentorship ends.

[Smoke117]

I was only speculating it was mine up until a month ago when the other guy got a test and it said it wasn't his. I'm actually happy cause I accomplished something most of you guys won't. it's the only true meaning of life

Isn't this kid half retarded? Definitely your genes.

[kennygriffin]

Isn't this kid half retarded? Definitely your genes.

she has a cheek that's swollen. well it used to be. now its pretty small. way less permanent than being dead like your dad lol

[MrFonzworth]

she has a cheek that's swollen. well it used to be. now its pretty small. way less permanent than being dead like your dad lol

:roll:

[kennygriffin]

https://i.ibb.co/f2vGC9G/Screenshot-20210811-155359-Gallery.jpg

looks pretty small now. glad she won't be a freak

[Smoke117]

she has a cheek that's swollen. well it used to be. now its pretty small. way less permanent than being dead like your dad lol

My pops isn't dead. He just turned 70 this year, chief.

[kennygriffin]

Yeah, I made that shit up while drunk. I make a lot of shit up to amuse myself. And nobody has ever brought it up but you. For some reason you got obsessively attached to it and it was amusing to just let you think it was true.


https://i.ibb.co/h8H84Xx/200-2.gif

[ScottieQuitting]

#1 Michael Jordan

- Peak/Prime stats ( A+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( A )
- individual Awards ( A+ )
- Championships ( A+ )
- prestige for those championships ( A+ )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( A+ )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )


#2 Kobe Bryant

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( A )
- individual Awards ( B+ )
- Championships ( A- )
- prestige for those championships ( B+ )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( A )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A- )

A little less kennygriffin and a little more reality without his asinine bias

[tontoz]

If Kobe and Lebron switch places the list would still suck but not as bad.

The all time leader in missed shots who has only 1 MVP isn't number 2.

[kennygriffin]

#1 Michael Jordan

- Peak/Prime stats ( A+ )
- Longevity/career stats ( A )
- individual Awards ( A+ )
- Championships ( A+ )
- prestige for those championships ( A+ )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( A+ )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A+ )


#2 Kobe Bryant

- Peak/Prime stats ( A )
- Longevity/career stats ( A )
- individual Awards ( B+ )
- Championships ( A- )
- prestige for those championships ( B+ )
- talent/skill ( A+ )
- era/rules ( A )
- aesthetics ( A+ )
- majority opinion/respect ( A- )

A little less kennygriffin and a little more reality without his asinine bias

1. how is 6 championships for jordan A+ when there's a guy with 11. the prestige is the part where their value is taken into account

2. Jordan played realistically 13 seasons and might be bumped out of the top 10 in points some day so he can't be an A. A- tops

3. how is Jordan A+ in skill when he couldn't shoot threes lol. wtf

4. kobe has the most combined all nba 1st teams and all defensive 1st teams in history, 2 finals mvps, a league mvp and 4 allstar mvps.. a B+ ? lol

5. how is he a B+ prestige for all 5? maybe his first title but 4 of them he basically matched shaq or carried gasol

[kennygriffin]

If Kobe and Lebron switch places the list would still suck but not as bad.

The all time leader in missed shots who has only 1 MVP isn't number 2.

you do realize lebron is on pace for that record lol. will it still matter then when your guy gets it? lol

[tontoz]

you do realize lebron is on pace for that record lol. will it still matter then when your guy gets it? lol


LeBron isn't "my guy". If he was I wouldn't be ok with him at number 2.

Kobe has over 1k more missed shots in only 36 more regular season games. :lol

[kennygriffin]

LeBron isn't "my guy". If he was I wouldn't be ok with him at number 2.

Kobe has over 1k more missed shots in only 36 more regular season games. :lol

jordan dunked most of his points and barely took any threes. no shit kobe will have more misses lol

their point per shot up until kobes Achilles injury are identical though so whatever

and you're probably the only MJ fan on the planet other than espn puppets that have jordan #1 and bran #2 with disdain toward kobe.

you're a relic like some 2006 hater lmao

I bet you're really really old

[Axe]

pippen?
Duh.

[kennygriffin]

Duh.

I never talk about pippen

[Smoke117]

jordan dunked most of his points and barely took any threes. no shit kobe will have more misses lol

their point per shot up until kobes Achilles injury are identical though so whatever

and you're probably the only MJ fan on the planet other than espn puppets that have jordan #1 and bran #2 with disdain toward kobe.

you're a relic like some 2006 hater lmao

I bet you're really really old

Nobody with a brain has Kobe at 2 all time that’s for sure. If he’s even top 10 it’s borderline.

[Axe]

I never talk about pippen
Oops it seems i just mistook you for 3ball lmao :lol

[kennygriffin]

Nobody with a brain has Kobe at 2 all time that’s for sure. If he’s even top 10 it’s borderline.

well that's simply because the jordan formula is only used for jordan. this thread is to show if that same criteria that people use to put him over Kareem and russell is used for kobe. it also puts him over those guys because more credit should be given to guys that were more skilled

[Axe]

And nobody sane would put stephen curry above king kong (lebron) in their list. Go figure.

[SaintzFury13]

well yeah....a sidekick ring IS worth more than a fake one


2016 was a colluded big 3 ring chase with a rigged suspension to draymond green and a bail out by 3 by kyrie irving

That big three featured one of the players playing most of that series with a concussion. So the collusion nonsense has no merit to it.

A rigged suspension? Draymond broke the rules and had too many technicals. I don't know why morons like to act like there was some kind of major conspiracy behind Draymond's suspension.


i give lebron zero credit for it. especially coming in the 2010's era where theres no physicality

And it's for that reason that you are a retard.


plus lebrons been proven to be on steroids. so how can anything he does be legit

No he hasn't.


IF none of these asterisks were present then sure lebrons 2016 title would look great. but reality says otherwise

Literally all of those asterisks are non existent.

[3ba11]

.

PLAYOFF PPG

86' McHale...... 24.9
86' Bird.......... 25.9

88' McHale...... 25.4
88' Bird.......... 24.5

87' Worthy...... 23.6
87' Magic........ 21.1

11' Wade........ 24.5
11' Lebron...... 23.7

16' Kyrie'........ 25.2
16' Lebron...... 26.2

20' AD'........... 27.8
20' Lebron...... 27.7

01' Kobe........ 29.4
01' Shaq........ 30.4


Everyone in history needed an equal-scoring partner (1b) for most of their rings except the goat, who won 6 rings with a true 2nd option that averaged far less in every playoffs and had low statistical peak.

Teammate scoring matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive attention for his entire career, (thus giving maximum integrity to his stats and rings).. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

Accordingly, rings with 2nd options are greater than rings with 1b's and Jordan has 4 more rings with 2nd options than anyone else in history - that's his irrefutable goat argument.

Heck, everyone that won 3 Finals needed a teammate to average 25 or win FMVP for at least 1 of the Finals - but Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win with Pippen.

Ultimately, only MJ lacked the FMVP sidekicks, equal-scoring partners, and elite 1st option sidekicks that everyone else enjoyed - he was stuck with a true 2nd option like Pippen and inferior team defenses (bulls had the #7 defense during 1st three-peat, including inferior defenses in ECF/Finals)

[SouBeachTalents]

.

Playoff PPG

86' McHale...... 24.9
86' Bird.......... 25.9

88' McHale...... 25.4
88' Bird.......... 24.5

87' Worthy...... 23.6
87' Magic........ 21.1

11' Wade........ 24.5
11' Lebron...... 23.7

16' Kyrie'........ 25.2
16' Lebron...... 26.2

20' AD'........... 27.8
20' Lebron...... 27.7

01' Kobe........ 29.4
01' Shaq........ 30.4


Everyone in history needed an equal-scoring partner (1b) for most of their rings except the goat, who won 6 rings with a true 2nd option that averaged far less in every playoffs and had low statistical peak.

Teammate scoring matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive attention for his entire career, (thus giving maximum integrity to his stats and rings).. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

Accordingly, rings with 2nd options are greater than rings with 1b's and Jordan has 4 more rings with 2nd options than anyone else in history - that's his irrefutable goat argument.

Ultimately, that won 3 Finals needed a teammate to average 25 or win FMVP for at least 1 of the Finals - but Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win with Pippen.

Ultimately, only MJ lacked the FMVP sidekicks, equal-scoring partners, and elite 1st option sidekicks that everyone else enjoyed - he was stuck with a true 2nd option like Pippen and inferior team defenses (bulls had the #7 defense during 1st three-peat, including inferior defenses in ECF/Finals)
1-9

[MrFonzworth]

see. that's totally something Andy would say inbetween a Conan monolog

Andy Richters a legend watch it

[kawhileonard2]

1-9

WTF does that mean?

They would have been that even if you added prime Pippen to those squads. Besides no one was calling MJ the best in the league those years nor had he won a league mvp but at least he dominated individually as well. They weren't going to beat the C's in 1986 or 1987 unless they had the 1991-1993, 1996-1998 squads.

1990 semis game 4 they had no Pippen at Philly.

[SouBeachTalents]

WTF does that mean?

They would have been that even if you added prime Pippen to those squads. Besides no one was calling MJ the best in the league those years nor had he won a league mvp but at least he dominated individually as well. They weren't going to beat the C's in 1986 or 1987 unless they had the 1991-1993, 1996-1998 squads.

1990 semis game 4 they had no Pippen at Philly.
1-9

[kawhileonard2]

1-9

2 bronze medals and 0-8.

[kennygriffin]

the 1-9 thing isn't really an insult when you consider the teams jordan went up against. even if he had prime pippen they probly win maybe 1 more game?

we're talking about the legendary celtics and pistons of the 80s for christ sake


its not like he was getting owned by jj barea or carlos arroyo


or sh*tting the bed either like lebron has many times. jordan played great

[3ba11]

the 1-9 thing isn't really an insult when you consider the teams jordan went up against. even if he had prime pippen they probly win maybe 1 more game?

we're talking about the legendary celtics and pistons of the 80s for christ sake


its not like he was getting owned by jj barea or carlos arroyo


or sh*tting the bed either like lebron has many times. jordan played great


exactly - prime MJ/Pippen aren't beating the 80's Celtics or Lakers super-teams.... heck, they were almost down 2-1 to the 91' Lakers with just Magic (worthy was hurt), but MJ saved the series by dominating the Game 3 OT

[SouBeachTalents]

the 1-9 thing isn't really an insult when you consider the teams jordan went up against. even if he had prime pippen they probly win maybe 1 more game?

we're talking about the legendary celtics and pistons of the 80s for christ sake


its not like he was getting owned by jj barea or carlos arroyo


or sh*tting the bed either like lebron has many times. jordan played great
1-9

[3ba11]

1-9


Lebron, KD, Curry, and Giannis had 3 years to develop their team into favored high seeds before entering the playoffs, while Jordan was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 with an 8 seed..

So "1-9" compares 3rd year high seeds to 1st year eight seeds, aka dumb

and it's better to go 1-9 with 8 seeds than 1-9 with top seeds like lebron - lebron lost by more with super-teams (record amount) than jordan lost with 8 seeds

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron, KD, Curry, and Giannis had 3 years to develop their team into favored high seeds before entering the playoffs, while Jordan was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 with an 8 seed..

So "1-9" compares 3rd year high seeds to 1st year eight seeds, aka dumb

and it's better to go 1-9 with 8 seeds than 1-9 with top seeds like lebron - lebron lost by more with super-teams (record amount) than jordan lost with 8 seeds
1-9

[outofstomach]

Lebron, KD, Curry, and Giannis had 3 years to develop their team into favored high seeds before entering the playoffs, while Jordan was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 with an 8 seed..

So "1-9" compares 3rd year high seeds to 1st year eight seeds, aka dumb

and it's better to go 1-9 with 8 seeds than 1-9 with top seeds like lebron - lebron lost by more with super-teams (record amount) than jordan lost with 8 seeds
i don’t know why you bother offering genuine argumentation to bron trolls like this, they don’t have any actual substantial reasoning other than tossing long debunked buzzwords and phrases

[ScottieQuitting]

1-9
What does this reference?

[Axe]

What does this reference?
:roll:

Omfg coach :facepalm

[Smoke117]

the 1-9 thing isn't really an insult when you consider the teams jordan went up against. even if he had prime pippen they probly win maybe 1 more game?

we're talking about the legendary celtics and pistons of the 80s for christ sake


its not like he was getting owned by jj barea or carlos arroyo


or sh*tting the bed either like lebron has many times. jordan played great

1-9

[kennygriffin]

1-9

i'm not a jordan fan lol. it doesn't bother me like it does 3ball. he either enjoys the attention or hes insecure. i dunno any real world scenario where guys are saying 1-9. i never heard that shit at the bar before


its silly to care about haters if you're a hardcore jordan fan. thats why 3ball is the only one left here

jordan will never be topped. hes like ali/babe ruth/gretzky level

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs


Everyone in history was a "pippen" because they needed teammates to match or exceed them in scoring for entire playoff runs, while Jordan averaged 10-30 more than his sidekick in every SERIES - so only Jordan carried his team - he's the only guy in history to carry his team to multiple titles.. That's the Jordan Formula (carry-jobs)

[SouBeachTalents]

.
Thread Cliffs


1-9

[kennygriffin]

.
Thread Cliffs


1-9


1-9

jordan sucks lol

see... nothing changed. i can do it too. we don't matter you know



it says on jordans wiki page that his official nba website bio calls him the goat lmao

https://i.ibb.co/jR1NGKr/Screen-Shot-2021-08-12-at-2-47-06-AM.png

[Axe]

1-9

jordan sucks lol

see... nothing changed. i can do it too. we don't matter you know



it says on jordans wiki page that his official nba website bio calls him the goat lmao

https://i.ibb.co/jR1NGKr/Screen-Shot-2021-08-12-at-2-47-06-AM.png
Wikipedia still stuck at light and soft 90s :(

[Ne 1]

The amount of on the court and off the court BS Russell and Kareem had to deal with is why they’ll always outrank anyone you try to romanticize…

[kennygriffin]

The amount of on the court and off the court BS Russell and Kareem had to deal with is why they’ll always outrank anyone you try to romanticize…

awww did someone call them a nasty word. poor guys. I bet they went home and cried on a pile of money.

black people need to realize that racism goes both ways and we get called crackers just as often. and if you don't wanna get beat by cops stop messing with them lol

I've been arrested and I comply and I'm respectful .. say "yes sir no sir" and youl be fine

[Smoke117]

awww did someone call them a nasty word. poor guys. I bet they went home and cried on a pile of money.

black people need to realize that racism goes both ways and we get called crackers just as often. and if you don't wanna get beat by cops stop messing with them lol

I've been arrested and I comply and I'm respectful .. say "yes sir no sir" and youl be fine

1-9

[3ba11]

awww did someone call them a nasty word. poor guys. I bet they went home and cried on a pile of money.

black people need to realize that racism goes both ways and we get called crackers just as often. and if you don't wanna get beat by cops stop messing with them lol

I've been arrested and I comply and I'm respectful .. say "yes sir no sir" and youl be fine


You were arrested legitimately, not harassed into some bs arrest - if millions of blacks are harassed by cops, then there's going to be a couple dozen extreme situations where kats get killed - so the killing of blacks by cops is a symptom of the main issue (profiling, harassment)

[lakerstekkenn]

He gave Kobe Bryant A for "prestige of championships.

Meanwhile:


https://live.staticflickr.com/4101/4920970629_7fb8758dbc_z.jpg

According to you Shaq by himself was going to beat Portland in 2000? because Portland slowed Shaq completely down, after their double digit lead, Shaq couldn't do anything and was scared to death he was going to get eliminated in the playoffs yet again, so Shaq isn't getting 100% credit for the 2000 ring, so Shaq got carried to his first championship.


Kobe had 25 and Shaq only had 18 and wasn't doing anything the whole game.


In Indiana Kobe saved Shaq ass when Shaq fouled out and Kobe took over in game 4, if Indiana had won that game, The Lakers would've lost that series because the next game Indiana had destroyed them in embarrassment 120 to 87, Indiana would've won the championship, so Kobe saved Shaq's ass.


Shaq had 36 points but fouled out and Indiana was on their way to a win, Kobe had 28 points & took over that overtime game by himself to a must victory or NO CHAMPIONSHIP FOR SHAQ.


Kobe carried Shaq in that game saved Shaq in game 4 and saved his first championship ring.


Shaq wasn't getting past The Spurs in 2001 western finals without Kobe, it Kobe who was unstoppable in that series on the road Kobe carried Shaq against The Spurs in the first two games in that series, so Shaq isn't getting 100% credit for his second championship, that equal effort with Kobe taking over when needed, plus Fisher and the teams effort.

Game 1 Kobe 45 points Shaq had 28 points.

Game 2 Kobe had 28 Shaq had 19 points.

Game 3 Kobe had 36 and Shaq had 35.

Game 4 a blowout game all team effort especially Fisher also.



Against the Kings was a full teams effort Shaq, so wasn't carrying anybody by himself against that monster who at times embarrassed The Lakers, so no Shaq doesn't get 100% credit for beating The Kings in that 7 game series because everyone had to dig deep to win that series.



Game 1 Kobe 30 points Shaq 26 points

Game 2 Kobe food poisoning Kobe 22, Shaq 35, in a loss.

Game 3 Kobe 22 & Shaq 20 in a loss

Game 4 Kobe 25 & Shaq 27 in a win.

Game 5 Kobe 30 Shaq 28 in a loss.

Game 6 Kobe 31 & Shaq 41 in a win.

Game 7 Kobe 30 & Shaq 35 in a win







So no Shaq didn't carry Kobe nor the Lakers by himself, acting like he played with scrubs.



Let's be fair and tell what really happened, Kobe and Shaq carried each other & it was also a team effort.

So your not fooling anybody with that nonsense.

[kennygriffin]

You were arrested legitimately, not harassed into some bs arrest - if millions of blacks are harassed by cops, then there's going to be a couple dozen extreme situations where kats get killed - so the killing of blacks by cops is a symptom of the main issue (profiling, harassment)

I've seen thousands upon thousands of cop videos vs black people and not one time did any of them think about complying

its always been some wild combative sh*t lol

[3ba11]

I've seen thousands upon thousands of cop videos vs black people and not one time did any of them think about complying

its always been some wild combative sh*t lol


It's hard to comply when you're unfairly targeted.

And you're lying too - there's tons of videos of blacks complying and cops simply escalating the situation until they can use force

Cops get their panties in a bunch around black people.. see the sandra bland video... that cop should be locked up for a long time

[kennygriffin]

It's hard to comply when you're unfairly targeted.

And you're lying too - there's tons of videos of blacks complying and cops simply escalating the situation until they can use force

Cops get their panties in a bunch around black people.. see the sandra bland video... that cop should be locked up for a long time

blacks aren't unfairly targeted. they bring it on themselves by committing more crimes and murders. its like when muslims go to an airport. are they unfairly targeted by being screened more thoroughly?


every white cop is automatically assumed to be racist killers even though only 200 blacks are killed each year by cops out of millions of arrests.

and thats infinitely less likely than a black person committing a crime

todays BLM movement is insanely hypocritical

[Ne 1]

awww did someone call them a nasty word. poor guys. I bet they went home and cried on a pile of money.

black people need to realize that racism goes both ways and we get called crackers just as often. and if you don't wanna get beat by cops stop messing with them lol

I've been arrested and I comply and I'm respectful .. say "yes sir no sir" and youl be fine

The fact they still receive credible death threats shows your level of ignorance in this matter…

[kennygriffin]

The fact they still receive credible death threats shows your level of ignorance in this matter…

every celebrity gets death threats lmao