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View Full Version : Looking at Duncan's God tier 2003 playoff run.



coastalmarker99
08-12-2021, 10:20 PM
Duncan's 2003 Playoff run is one of the most Goat playoff runs of all time and overlooked by the general public for some reason.




People assume that because Parker, Ginobili, and Robinson were on the team, that Duncan had a lot of help in this run when that is not the case.

The 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th scoring options on the Spurs all shot under 42% FG for the entirety of the 2003 Playoffs, the only time that this has happened on a championship team since 1964.

2003 Spurs scoring options 2 through 5 in the playoffs

Parker - 14.7 ppg on 40%

Jackson - 12.8 ppg on 41%

Ginobili - 9.4 ppg on 39%

Rose - 9.3 ppg on 41.9%



David Robinson was the 6th scoring option at 7.8 ppg on 54%. As you can see, the name value of Duncan's teammates didn't nearly match their production.

Duncan led the team in points, rebounds, blocks, and even assists for the entire playoff run, with incredible averages of 24.7 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 5.3 apg, 0.6 spg, 3.3 bpg on 53%.

Duncan is the only PF to lead a title team in scoring and assists at the same time for the playoffs. And of course, you have to remember that Tim Duncan is a top 10 defender of all-time due to his rim protection and ability to anchor the Spurs defence.

Duncan is the only player to average 24-15-5 with 3 blocks per game in any playoff run in general, regardless of the number of games played. Only two other people have averaged 24-15-5 in a playoff run past the first round, Kareem in 1972 and Barkley in 1986.


However, neither Kareem nor Barkley made it to the Finals in either of those seasons, only winning one playoff series apiece, and neither had to carry an offensive load nearly as big as Duncan's. And on the other end, neither of them were as dominant defensively as Duncan.

It's true that blocks weren't recorded and that Kareem probably did average 3+ bpg in the 1972 Playoffs, but again he only won one playoff series and wasn't carrying nearly as big a load as Duncan.

In fact, it was Oscar's running of the offence that led the Bucks to their first-round playoff win in 1972, as Kareem was shut down and outscored by Thurmond.

This forced Oscar to redirect the offence to Dandridge, who outscored Kareem in that series, after Kareem had his best scoring season, to take them to the 2nd round.

Now, let's get back to the 2003 Playoffs. In the first round, the Spurs played a 44-win Suns team with Marbury, Marion, and a rookie Amare Stoudemire.

For an 8-seed, this was a pretty solid team, and they took the Spurs to 6 games thanks in part to Stephon Marbury's buzzer-beater in Game 1. The Spurs bounced back, however, as Duncan carried them past the Suns with a great series of 19-16-5 and 3.5 blocks per game.

In the 2003 WCSF, the Spurs faced their familiar rivals, the Shaq-Kobe Lakers who were the defending 3peat champions. The Lakers underachieved in the regular season getting only a 50-32 record - partly due to missing Shaq for 15 games but obviously were a huge threat once the playoffs came around.


Kobe averaged 30-7-6-2-1 on 45% that year, which was probably his best all-around season. Shaq was also still a monster, putting up 28-11-3 with 2.4 bpg on 57% in the season.

The crazy part is that Duncan outplayed both Kobe and Shaq at the same time in the WCSF, and while having less help than either of them.



Duncan - 28-12-5 on 53% with 1.3 bpg
Kobe - 32-5-4 on 43% with 1 spg
Shaq - 25-14-4 on 56% with 2.8 bpg

Remember, both Kobe and Shaq had each other to draw the defence away from them, whereas Duncan had minimal offensive help - which meant the Lakers defence could focus much more on him. In spite of that Duncan's numbers are still better than Shaq and Kobe's.


Kobe scored more but shot noticeably less efficiently, and Duncan had much more rebounds and even more assists than Kobe. Duncan also beat Shaq in scoring and assists, but Shaq had an edge in rebounds and blocks. And it goes without saying that Duncan was always the much better defender compared to Shaq.

Let's put Duncan's lack of help compared to Kobe and Shaq in perspective. Kobe by himself averaged 32.3 ppg, compared to the combined averages of Parker, Ginobili, and Bowen of 37.7 ppg - the top 3 Spurs scorers after Duncan in that series. S


Shaq had 14.3 rpg, compared to the combined 14.2 rpg from Robinson, Malik Rose, and Stephen Jackson - the top 3 Spurs in rebounding after Duncan.


Kobe and Shaq by themselves nearly equalled the scoring and rebounding production of Duncan's 3 best teammates in both categories, yet he still carried his team to the win.

Next came the 60-win Mavericks in the 2003 WCF, tied for the best record in the league with Duncan's Spurs. Dirk did suffer a knee injury near the end of Game 3 that put him out of commission for the rest of the series.


However, the Spurs were already winning by 14 with 7:45 to go in the 4th quarter when Dirk was injured, and Dirk only had 15-9-2 on 7/20 FG (35%), so it's unlikely that the Mavericks would have came back with Dirk in that game.


The Spurs were still up 2-1 through 3 games before Dirk sat out the rest of the series, and Duncan outplayed him in each of the first 2 games as well as Game 3 before Dirk went down.


Now the Nets were not that great a team, only having a 49-33 record and with Jason Kidd being the only reason that team was relevant.

However, Duncan's teammates failed to have a great performance in spite of the fact that they were playing what should have been an easy opponent. Duncan's best teammates in the 2003 Finals were

Parker 14-3-4 on 39%

Robinson 11-7-1 on 61% with 2 bpg

Jackson 10-4-3 on 38%

Ginobili 9-5-2 on 35%

It says a lot that Duncan carried a team that struggled so badly against the 49-win Nets past the 3peat Lakers while outplaying Shaq and Kobe at the same time. For comparison, none of Duncan's teammates in the 2003 Finals had more than 14 ppg, but LeBron had 15 and 14 ppg from Wade and Bosh in the 2014 Finals.

Duncan had an incredible 24-17-5-1-5 on 50% for the 2003 Finals, easily one of the best Finals performances of all-time, with a Finals record 5.3 bpg, and a near-quadruple double in Game 6 to clinch the title with 21-20-10 and 8 blocks.


For the overall playoff run, Duncan had good defensive help from Bowen and David Robinson, but he was still by far the best defensive player on the team and had to carry an insane offensive load. And even Robinson played a limited 23 mpg, so Duncan couldn't rely on his defence nearly as much as past years.

RRR3
08-12-2021, 10:21 PM
One of the GOAT carry jobs for sure.

coastalmarker99
08-12-2021, 10:28 PM
One of the GOAT carry jobs for sure.

This playoff run is why in my eyes you cant rank Kobe over Duncan all-time.


Also, it doesn't help that Duncan has more Mvp's and final MVPs to his name than Kobe.




Duncan: 2 MVPs, 2 second-place finishes

Kobe: 1 MVP, 1 second-place finish

Duncan: 3 Finals MVPs, 4 or 5 titles as the best player on the team

Kobe: 2 Finals MVPs, 2 titles as the best player on the team

Im Still Ballin
08-12-2021, 10:29 PM
Use TS%, or eFG% and FT%. Also, consider league-wide scoring efficiency was at a considerable low.

Just a couple things to consider.

taabhimself
08-12-2021, 10:30 PM
ISH in a nutshell - lengthy Tim Duncan analysis in a post that is actually about Kobe.

HBK_Kliq_2
08-12-2021, 10:33 PM
Very overrated just like his career.

3rd and 4th rounds he's playing Raef LaFrentz and Kenyon Martin.

Also 26% usage isn't really a carry job, that term should be used for 30+ usage guys only.

1 really good series in 2003 vs the dysfunctional and injured Lakers but that's it.

Manu ginobili also had an on/off via bball ref at +22.9

Still remains the only bum who couldn't lead USA to gold in the last 30 years. Also didn't deserve his 05 finals mvp that should of went to manu, so he pretty much went 2004-2016 without a legit finals MVP.

HoopsNY
08-12-2021, 10:33 PM
This playoff run is why in my eyes you cant rank Kobe over Duncan all-time.


Also, it doesn't help that Duncan has more Mvp's and final MVPs to his name than Kobe.




Duncan: 2 MVPs, 2 second-place finishes

Kobe: 1 MVP, 1 second-place finish

Duncan: 3 Finals MVPs, 4 or 5 titles as the best player on the team

Kobe: 2 Finals MVPs, 2 titles as the best player on the team

Agreed. It's one of the reasons why Duncan is actually underrated. You have people thinking KG > Duncan, and it's just laughable.

warriorfan
08-12-2021, 10:36 PM
Very overrated just like his career.

3rd and 4th rounds he's playing Raef LaFrentz and Kenyon Martin.

Also 26% usage isn't really a carry job, that term should be used for 30+ usage guys only.

1 really good series in 2003 vs the dysfunctional and injured Lakers but that's it.

Manu ginobili also had an on/off via bball ref at +22.9

Still remains the only bum who couldn't lead USA to gold in the last 30 years. Also didn't deserve his 05 finals mvp that should of went to manu, so he pretty much went 2004-2016 without a legit finals MVP.

This cope post shows how sick he was. Duncan gets overrated in some parts of his career yet underrated in others.

ImKobe
08-12-2021, 10:37 PM
Use TS%, or eFG% and FT%. Also, consider league-wide scoring efficiency was at a considerable low.

Just a couple things to consider.

Yep. Spurs still had a top 10 offense and a top 3 defense so it's not like it was all Duncan.

Look at that Suns series in the 1st round. Duncan averaged just 18.7 ppg and they barely won in 6 games. Three other Spurs' players averaged 13+ ppg in that series.

Spurs won Game 6 @PHO by 2 pts. Duncan had 15 pts on 4/12 FG that game and scored 0 pts in the 4th quarter with Stephen Jackson carrying them to the W.

taabhimself
08-12-2021, 10:45 PM
KG > Duncan

insanity. Duncan is easily the best 4 of all time, KG might not be top 3.

the play that comes to mind whenever I think about just how god damn good Timmy was at winning basketball games is from a game he lost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-u4pIQyjfE

Fisher's .4 obviously spoiled it but this is one of the dumbest shots I have ever seen. Shaq could not have played better D, and even Malone gets over in time to crowd him but Timmy just wills it in. absurd. so happy Fisher hit that shot because the Spurs would have played the Pistons a lot tougher than twilight Shakobe.

Rysio
08-13-2021, 12:23 AM
One of the most overrated run of all time. Spurs only legit non choker team they beat were the old lakers and if horry hits that shot in game 5 it would've been another 2nd round exit For them. Spurs beat the worst lakers team in kobe and shaq era that honestly should've won less than 45 games that year.

nayte
08-13-2021, 03:07 AM
I'm a big fan of Duncan. He seems to get forgotten a lot. He could have taken multiple teams to the finals with his play style imo

SouBeachTalents
08-13-2021, 03:31 AM
One of the most overrated run of all time. Spurs only legit non choker team they beat were the old lakers and if horry hits that shot in game 5 it would've been another 2nd round exit For them. Spurs beat the worst lakers team in kobe and shaq era that honestly should've won less than 45 games that year.
Outside of the Lakers the competition wasn't that great, esp with Dirk going out. But he still performed at an incredible level, carrying one of the weakest rosters ever to the championship while being the teams best scorer, playmaker, rebounder and defender.

SouBeachTalents
08-13-2021, 03:32 AM
Some of these performances were ridiculous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_iN6qwvoS8&ab_channel=bmac1899

37/16/4 on 64% to beat the 3peat Lakers on their home floor while outplaying Shaq & Kobe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Dn5EqiQTA&ab_channel=gearmast3r

40/15/7 on 70%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inR1UKJk2dI&t&ab_channel=gearmast3r

34/24/6/6 on 63%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu-kgKs8GCw&ab_channel=Z.Highlights

32/20/6/3/7 on 65% to start the Finals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9RUCpfujnI&ab_channel=TheThrowback

21/20/10/8 to clinch the title

nayte
08-13-2021, 04:32 AM
He is crazy underated these days .

ShawkFactory
08-13-2021, 05:02 AM
He was on another level on the playoffs. Gave it to everyone

FKAri
08-13-2021, 10:34 AM
Barkley called him the best PF ever after that finals. That was the first time anyone had ever said that about him. At least I think that was in 03.