Looking at Magic's performance in the 1984 finals.

[coastalmarker99]

In the 1984 finals

Magic.


Led the Lakers in rebounding and steals plus assists.

He averaged 18.1 ppg.

He averaged 2.0 STL

He handed out 13.6 APG

And he shot .56.0 from the field. (BTW Kareem shot .48.1.)


Aside from the very two bad plays Magic had in games 2 and 4 I don't really think you can put the full blame on Magic for losing this series.



As Worthy Instead of handing the ball to Magic in game two, with LA leading and having the ball, he threw a cross-court pass that was picked off and led to a tying FG that sent the game into overtime and prevented LA from heading back to LA after the first two games with a 2 0 series lead.

He also missed a late FT in the game four loss, in which the Lakers would go on to lose in OT (again.)

[pandiani17]

Interesting insight. From what I have heard, Magic was heavily criticised by that years' finals' performance, wasn't he?

[SouBeachTalents]

Magic had a very good series production wise, but the Tragic Johnson nickname was well deserved for his play in that series. He made critical, game losing mistakes in 3 of the 4 Lakers losses in that series. And I'm not talking about situations like missing game winning shots, he was doing things like running out the clock at the end of regulation, missing TWO huge free throws in OT, in addition to other critical turnovers he had down the stretch of these games.

[1987_Lakers]

Nah, the stats look good, but he did in fact choke in numerous games in that series when the game was on the line. Magic himself will tell you that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y

Only difference is Magic like most great lakers excluding Kobe bounced back and proved to be a clutch performer after his '84 disaster.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

His game 7 was a joke: 90 offensive rating, 35% eFG, 47% TS

Him and Bird seemed to take turns on playing like shit in the finals, kawhi would destroy both men.

[1987_Lakers]

His game 7 was a joke: 90 offensive rating, 35% eFG, 47% TS

Him and Bird seemed to take turns on playing like shit in the finals, kawhi would destroy both men.

Still not as bad as Kawhi's game 7 vs Denver. 72 offensive rating, 32% eFG, 32 TS%

[SouBeachTalents]

Nah, the stats look good, but he did in fact choke in numerous games in that series when the game was on the line. Magic himself will tell you that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y

Only difference is Magic like most great lakers excluding Kobe bounced back and proved to be a clutch performer after his '84 disaster.
I know no player is immune to choking or having poor series, but Magic's performance in those Finals has always seemed inexplicable to me. Here's a guy in his 5th season who already won 2 titles, been FMVP for both, including having literally one of the greatest performances ever to clinch the title his rookie year on the road, without Kareem, to clinch the title. It seems crazy to me that somehow at that point in his career, he would fail so miserably in the clutch NUMEROUS times throughout the series. It's arguably the strangest outlier in any top 10 players career.

[SouBeachTalents]

His game 7 was a joke: 90 offensive rating, 35% eFG, 47% TS

Him and Bird seemed to take turns on playing like shit in the finals, kawhi would destroy both men.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EjZZLJwteY

[coastalmarker99]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EjZZLJwteY

:roll:

[pandiani17]

Didn't the Lakers start really well in the series, dominating it 2-1 and being very close to winning the game 4? Maybe he thought getting it done would be easier and he became overwhelmed by the situation when the Celtics drew the series and fought like madmen after Larry Bird's comments about having to play harder.

[coastalmarker99]

Didn't the Lakers start really well in the series, dominating it 2-1 and being very close to winning the game 4? Maybe he thought getting it done would be easier and he became overwhelmed by the situation when the Celtics drew the series and fought like madmen after Larry Bird's comments about having to play harder.


In all honestly, the Lakers should have swept the Celtics that year.



If not for Worthy's late-game turnover in game 2 the Lakers would have left Boston Garden with a 2 0 series lead which would have been a death sentence for the Celtics.

[1987_Lakers]

I know no player is immune to choking or having poor series, but Magic's performance in those Finals has always seemed inexplicable to me. Here's a guy in his 5th season who already won 2 titles, been FMVP for both, including having literally one of the greatest performances ever to clinch the title his rookie year on the road, without Kareem, to clinch the title. It seems crazy to me that somehow at that point in his career, he would fail so miserably in the clutch NUMEROUS times throughout the series. It's arguably the strangest outlier in any top 10 players career.

I believe the Celtics got in his head. Boston's '86 team might have been their best, but in '84 they were at their peak in terms of physicality and trash talking, not only were Bird & McHale natural trash talkers but so were Maxwell & M.L. Carr. We don't know for sure what happened to Magic, but if I had to guess, Boston's trash talking in physicality got to him.

[Psileas]

In the 1984 finals

Magic.


Led the Lakers in rebounding and steals plus assists.

He averaged 18.1 ppg.

He averaged 2.0 STL

He handed out 13.6 APG

And he shot .56.0 from the field. (BTW Kareem shot .48.1.)


Aside from the very two bad plays Magic had in games 2 and 4 I don't really think you can put the full blame on Magic for losing this series.



As Worthy Instead of handing the ball to Magic in game two, with LA leading and having the ball, he threw a cross-court pass that was picked off and led to a tying FG that sent the game into overtime and prevented LA from heading back to LA after the first two games with a 2 0 series lead.

He also missed a late FT in the game four loss, in which the Lakers would go on to lose in OT (again.)

Yeah, I always wondered who would have won F.MVP had the Lakers won the series, him or Kareem. Choking or not, he still had some elite all-around performances, almost posting 3 triple doubles in a row and winning the series would make all these bad moments look like silly asterisks.

[kawhileonard2]

Nah, the stats look good, but he did in fact choke in numerous games in that series when the game was on the line. Magic himself will tell you that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y

Only difference is Magic like most great lakers excluding Kobe bounced back and proved to be a clutch performer after his '84 disaster.

What do you mean excluding Kobe?

[dankok8]

Yeah, I always wondered who would have won F.MVP had the Lakers won the series, him or Kareem. Choking or not, he still had some elite all-around performances, almost posting 3 triple doubles in a row and winning the series would make all these bad moments look like silly asterisks.

Kareem would have been Finals MVP most likely. IIRC Kareem had 5 really good games out of 7 and his one real stinker was the Game 5 in the Garden where the AC was broken... All the Lakers seemed exhausted in that one.

But yea... with better closing by Magic that series could have actually been a sweep for the Lakers.

[ImKobe]

Nah, the stats look good, but he did in fact choke in numerous games in that series when the game was on the line. Magic himself will tell you that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y

Only difference is Magic like most great lakers excluding Kobe bounced back and proved to be a clutch performer after his '84 disaster.

When did Kobe choke in the closing moments of a Finals game to begin with? The closest thing to a choke in his career was the '08 Finals Game 4 IIRC but that was more about the Celtics going ape shit on offense in the 2nd half and it wasn't like Kobe missed a FT or a had a critical turnover that led to the loss in a close game, he had a decent 4th quarter (10 pts 3 ast 50%FG, no TOs or missed FTs) & it still wasn't good enough & even if you think he choked that series (no HCA, down Bynum & Ariza) he won the next 2 titles.

Even when the Lakers lost as favorites in '04, the only clutch moment of that series was his game-tying shot to save an embarrassing sweep and he played well in 4th quarters in that series.

Kobe never choked in these moments, which is why he won 5 out of 7.

[SouBeachTalents]

When did Kobe choke in the closing moments of a Finals game to begin with? The closest thing to a choke in his career was the '08 Finals Game 4 IIRC but that was more about the Celtics going ape shit on offense in the 2nd half and it wasn't like Kobe missed a FT or a had a critical turnover that led to the loss in a close game, he had a decent 4th quarter (10 pts 3 ast 50%FG, no TOs or missed FTs) & it still wasn't good enough & even if you think he choked that series (no HCA, down Bynum & Ariza) he won the next 2 titles.

Even when the Lakers lost as favorites in '04, the only clutch moment of that series was his game-tying shot to save an embarrassing sweep and he played well in 4th quarters in that series.

Kobe never choked in these moments, which is why he won 5 out of 7.
Shaq

[ImKobe]

Shaq

Shaq, the player who was often a liability in big moments due to his limited scoring game & poor FT shooting?

Kobe was the most clutch player in the league in the early 2000s.

4th quarter, Playoffs

https://defpen.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Screen-Shot-2017-06-03-at-3.01.00-PM.png


But fourth quarter stats can be misleading, right? Who knows if he was just putting up numbers in the fourth when the game was already decided? When using the NBA’s definition of clutch, the last five minutes of the fourth quarter or overtime, when the score is within five points, we find an interesting result. All stats are per 36 minutes, requiring at least 10 minutes played in clutch situations, and TS% requires a minimum of 15 FGA in clutch situations

https://defpen.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Screen-Shot-2017-06-03-at-3.01.08-PM.png