Pippen might be the most over rated player in NBA history

[nineiron]

but, but, but his defense was so good. :cry:

dude wasn't elite at ANYTHING.

[FireDavidKahn]

Oh look, a wild LeGOAT hater appears

[coastalmarker99]

6× NBA champion (1991–1993, 1996–1998)

7× NBA All-Star (1990, 1992–1997)

NBA All-Star Game MVP (1994)

3× All-NBA First Team (1994–1996)

2× All-NBA Second Team (1992, 1997)

2× All-NBA Third Team (1993, 1998)

8× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1992–1999)

2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1991, 2000)

NBA steals leader (1995)

NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

No. 33 retired by Chicago Bulls

[coastalmarker99]

Scottie Pippen - Offensive Highlights, 1997 Playoffs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1rd5SKQ3U


Scottie Pippen 1997 Finals Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k26RUYww44


"I know he makes me a better player. Unfortunately, it may take a while, after we both retire, for people to realize just how good Scottie Pippen really was."

-Michael Jordan.


If he had been the "Man" in his prime, my goodness!

Pippen did get cheated out of

1994/96 DPOY

1994 AT LEAST A TRIP TO THE FINALS!

[coastalmarker99]

Scottie Pippen 1993-1994 Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDMPuJdYNQ



Scottie Pippen 1994-1995 Season Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbRSfGz01Pw

[coastalmarker99]

Scottie Pippen 1998 ECF Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEWMVAli8cQ



Scottie Pippen shuts down Mark Jackson - 1998 ECF Game 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImRvytke08c


Scottie Pippen 21 pts 5 asts 3 blks vs Pacers 1998 PO G2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEOXj4GoaOg



Scottie Pippen locks down Glen Rice - 1998 ECSF Game 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikqz29GkYsQ





Scottie Pippen shuts down Glen Rice - 1998 ECSF Game 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yh4qNNJIBQ


Scottie Pippen draws 4 charges - 1998 Finals Game 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nErCkc2XNjk


Very few superstars could dominate a game or a series while struggling so badly as a scorer as Pippen could.


His 4 point output in game one of the 1998 ECF is one of my favourite Pippen games and one of my favourite Bulls games to watch.

[Axe]

No pip?

[coastalmarker99]

In 1993 MJ led the Bulls to win 57 games but left his team in 1994 and what happened? Pippen didn't miss a beat in 1994, leading the Jordanless Bulls to 55 wins

Scottie Pippen's averages from 1991, 1992 and 1993 Finals combined:

21 points
9 rebounds
7 assists
2 steals
1 block
46%

Jesus

21-9-7-2-1 on 46% for three straight Finals?...With elite defence and you are calling him the most overrated player in NBA history.

[Axe]

But even more interestingly, scottie pippen also has thrice the amount of wilt's rings as well. :biggums:

[nineiron]

what was he elite at?

as opposed to LeBrick's 2nd options:

Wade - elite offensive player
Bosh - elite offensive player
Kyrie - elite ball handler, scorer, finisher
Shaq - elite big man
AD - elite big man

[tontoz]

Looking just at the year '93/94 that Jordan missed to play baseball Pippen averaged 22/8/6 with 3 steals. He was 1st team All-NBA and 1st team All-NBA defense. He was also..

9th in the league in win shares
3rd in +/-
4th in PER
5th in VORP

[Axe]

what was he elite at?

as opposed to LeBrick's 2nd options:

Wade - elite offensive player
Bosh - elite offensive player
Kyrie - elite ball handler, scorer, finisher
Shaq - elite big man
AD - elite big man
Funny how these guys are cherry picked for their ppg capabilities. :roll:

[coastalmarker99]

Scottie handled his relationships with his teammates differently, and better, in my opinion...

My first season with the Bulls was the 1993-94 season, the first one Michael did not play because of his initial retirement.

In that season I saw Scottie as No. 1...I played with a lot of players--Chris Webber, Mark Aguirre, Sam Perkins--Scottie was head and shoulders above all of those players in terms of leadership and what he stood for as a team basketball player...

But what Scottie represented to me is a player whom I would pick 1st for my team every time. Even if Michael was available, I would pick Scottie Pippen...

Scottie led that team 93-'94 Bulls to 55 wins...Maybe it's apples to oranges, but that season was an indication of what Scottie was capable of doing as a team leader."




“He was phenomenal. He really did carry that team,” Wennington said of Pippen during the 1993-94 season. “He pretty much put that team on his shoulders. No one was expecting a whole lot to happen, but we ended up winning 55 games.

Scottie was the heart and soul of that team. He took a lot of the big shots and was the reason we won some big games. I can’t say enough for how he stepped in so quickly and going from one of two guys to ‘the guy.’”

As for Pippen’s leadership, he became a team captain for the first time in his career and regularly worked with all players, most notably during practice. Wennington said those kinds of actions went a long way, especially with the team’s reserves.


“He was very helpful and never derogatory,” recalled Wennington. “I was a new guy. I wasn’t even supposed to be on the team. But he was willing to help me out in practice when we were learning plays or working on the best way to cover a guy. He was able to talk to me without giving the impression like I was below him. He really wanted me to succeed and do well because that made him better.”


Pippen put his team first, something that was evident by his actions on the court.

“Scottie made everyone better because he was unselfish,” said Wennington. “He’d move the ball to the right spot. He had such a great basketball mind and really understood what was happening on the floor. He was always willing to help out his teammates and make them better.”

Off the court, Pippen looked out for his teammates as well. Wennington recalled a film room session in which the team was discussing a defensive scheme.

In one scenario, Wennington wasn’t supposed to double team in the post, so he followed his man towards the top of the key. Pippen was isolated on his man and offered to help cover Wennington’s assignment as well, so he sent him back down low to assist. Jackson took note of Wennington’s double team and began to lay into the center.

“Before I could even answer, Scottie said, ‘Phil, I told him to do it.’ That to me spoke volumes about what type of guy he was,” said Wennington.

“With your teammates, when something happens on the floor, you work together. Coaches don’t always know why you do something; they may think you broke a play. Scottie stood up for me and that speaks volumes about him as a person.”

A teammate of Pippen’s for five seasons, Wennington cited an infamous moment from Pippen’s career to tell the story of what made him such an extraordinary teammate.

“He was very accountable,” Wennington explained. “A lot of people want to talk about the 1.8 seconds and how Scottie didn’t play. But Scottie came into the locker room immediately after the game and understood what he did. He apologized to his teammates.”

The incident Wennington was referring to, of course, was during the 1994 Eastern Conference semifinals, when the Bulls faced the New York Knicks.

With Game 3 tied and 1.8 seconds remaining, the final play was designed so that Pippen would inbound the ball to rookie Toni Kukoc, who would then take the potential game-winning shot. Pippen was upset by the call and watched from the team bench as Kukoc connected at the buzzer to secure the win.

“The media will never know what he said, but the way he handled it resolved the situation instantly,” said Wennington. “Scottie knew he made a mistake and that’s what people don’t understand. That was only my second year in Chicago, but I had all the respect in the world for Scottie after that.”

[nineiron]

Funny how these guys are cherry picked for their ppg capabilities. :roll:

oh sorry. let's take AD for example. he averaged more points, rebounds, higher FG%, higher FT%, higher PER than Pippen.

feel better?

[Axe]

oh sorry. let's take AD for example. he averaged more points, rebounds, higher FG%, higher FT%, higher PER than Pippen.

feel better?
Like i said, all ppg. Or anything that has to do with scoring for that matter. :oldlol:

[coastalmarker99]

This thread epitomizes the problem with Jordan mythologists. The mythology has reached such a ridiculous level that MJ stans such as 3ball can't handle any other player besides Jordan on those 1990's Bulls squads getting credit.


Pippen ran the offence, ran the defence and served a valuable leadership role with his teammates on and off the court--and we are supposed to pretend that Jordan carried him and won all of his six titles by himself.

[coastalmarker99]

“I didn't win without Scottie Pippen, and that's why I consider him my best teammate of all time. He helped me so much in the way I approached the game, in the way I played the game. Whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen.”



If Pippen's defensive performance in Game 3 didn't convince you that he's worthy of being named MVP of the 1998 Finals, then what he did on both ends of the court in the Bulls' 86-82 Game 4 victory should have clinched the vote.


But if Chicago does win, the choice for MVP won’t be an easy one. Pippen, who’s finally stepped out of Jordan’s shadow during the playoffs.

Without his superb defence, the Bulls might not have made it past Indiana in the Eastern Conference finals, and they likely wouldn’t have a 3-1 lead over the Jazz.


That versatility amazes ESPN basketball expert Dr. Jack Ramsay, a longtime coach in the NBA. Ramsay ranks Pippen among the outstanding defenders in the history of the game. Right there with K.C. Jones, Mel Hutchins, Satch Sanders and so on.

"I can't conjure up anybody who does all the things that Pippen does as a defender. I mean, he can defend anybody," Ramsay said. "We've seen him defend point guards and take them out of their game, two guards and deny them a shot, small forwards, big forwards.


The New York Times LA Times two major Chicago papers in the Tribune and Sun-Times had Pippen as the front runner for the FMVP

If Pippen doesn't get hurt in the 1998 finals then he wins the Finals MVP

[Axe]

CM resorting to copy-pasta posts for a while now like 3ball usually does. Holy crap.

[k0kakw0rld]

but, but, but his defense was so good. :cry:

dude wasn't elite at ANYTHING.

Shut your ignorant ass up.

Basketball isn't only about stats. Some stuff don't show on the stat sheet.

[nineiron]

Like i said, all ppg. Or anything that has to do with scoring for that matter. :oldlol:

so rebounding is scoring? ok bran stan.

[Axe]

so rebounding is scoring? ok bran stan.
Lol you didn't even mention rebounding until i brought up how you cherry picked those guys. And no kid, i ain't a kong stan.

[nineiron]

oh sorry. let's take AD for example. he averaged more points, rebounds, higher FG%, higher FT%, higher PER than Pippen.

feel better?


Lol you didn't even mention rebounding until i brought up how you cherry picked those guys. And no kid, i ain't a kong stan.

go back to sleep bran stan.

[Axe]

go back to sleep bran stan.
I mean before you even posted that, doofus. Too easy.

[nineiron]

Shut your ignorant ass up.

Basketball isn't only about stats. Some stuff don't show on the stat sheet.

shall we talk about Pippen's leadership?

sulking and b1tching because he didn't get to take a final shot. that sounds like something LeB1tch would do.

[nineiron]

I mean before you even posted that, doofus. Too easy.

before i posted what you retard?

[Axe]

before i posted what you retard?
About kong's second options like shaq, ad, kyrie, wade and bosh, you buffoon.

[8Ball]

This thread epitomizes the problem with Jordan mythologists. The mythology has reached such a ridiculous level that MJ stans such as 3ball can't handle any other player besides Jordan on those 1990's Bulls squads getting credit.


Pippen ran the offence, ran the defence and served a valuable leadership role with his teammates on and off the court--and we are supposed to pretend that Jordan carried him and won all of his six titles by himself.

This.

Jordan mythologists are insecure. Waking up everyday mad about bran

[8Ball]

before i posted what you retard?

Every day you wake up dumber than the previous day.

Fix yourself.

[nayte]

But even more interestingly, scottie pippen also has thrice the amount of wilt's rings as well. :biggums:

:roll:

[AussieSteve]

Pip made the playoffs every single year of his career, aside from his last in which he missed most of the season.

16 straight playoffs. 9 conference finals. 14 50+ win seasons. Never won less than 47 games.

6 of those playoff runs and 5 of this 50+ win seasons were without Jordan. Correct me if I'm wrong but a Jordan led team never won more than 40 games without Pippen.

Pippen was one of the GOAT winners.

[StrongLurk]

Pippen is overrated some, but that's due to the 90's being the weakest time period in the 3-point NBA era.

He was a top 10 player in the NBA through the 90's, but he wouldn't be top ten in any other modern decade.

[nineiron]

Pippen is overrated some, but that's due to the 90's being the weakest time period in the 3-point NBA era.

He was a top 10 player in the NBA through the 90's, but he wouldn't be top ten in any other modern decade.

he was only considered a 'top 10' in the 90's because he was riding the coat tails of MJ. without MJ, his career would be no different than a Lamar Odom.

[tontoz]

he was only considered a 'top 10' in the 90's because he was riding the coat tails of MJ. without MJ, his career would be no different than a Lamar Odom.

Again Scottie did play without MJ when MJ played baseball.

Looking just at the year '93/94 that Jordan missed to play baseball Pippen averaged 22/8/6 with 3 steals. He was 1st team All-NBA and 1st team All-NBA defense. He was also..

9th in the league in win shares
3rd in +/-
4th in PER
5th in VORP

[SouBeachTalents]

Again Scottie did play without MJ when MJ played baseball.

Looking just at the year '93/94 that Jordan missed to play baseball Pippen averaged 22/8/6 with 3 steals. He was 1st team All-NBA and 1st team All-NBA defense. He was also..

9th in the league in win shares
3rd in +/-
4th in PER
5th in VORP
Bro, why are you arguing with a legitimate retard :lol

[nineiron]

Again Scottie did play without MJ when MJ played baseball.

Looking just at the year '93/94 that Jordan missed to play baseball Pippen averaged 22/8/6 with 3 steals. He was 1st team All-NBA and 1st team All-NBA defense. He was also..

9th in the league in win shares
3rd in +/-
4th in PER
5th in VORP

he enjoyed playing in a system. also, you think 22/8/6 makes you an all time great?

[tontoz]

he enjoyed playing in a system. also, you think 22/8/6 makes you an all time great?


Wait a minute i thought " he was riding the coat tails of MJ"? :roll:

First team All-NBA without him.

[nineiron]

Wait a minute i thought " he was riding the coat tails of MJ"? :roll:

First team All-NBA without him.

so 22/8/6 (Pippen's best year) makes you an all time great?

first team all-nba? sounds like there was some bias there. 22/8/6 does not make you first team all-NBA

[Axe]

so 22/8/6 (Pippen's best year) makes you an all time great?

first team all-nba? sounds like there was some bias there. 22/8/6 does not make you first team all-NBA
Yet was able to lead the bulls to 55 wins and took the top seeded knicks to seven games in the semifinals without his first option. :roll:

[tontoz]

so 22/8/6 (Pippen's best year) makes you an all time great?

first team all-nba? sounds like there was some bias there. 22/8/6 does not make you first team all-NBA

So are you saying he was first team All-NBA due to media bias? The media didn't have a say in the numbers below:

9th in the league in win shares
3rd in +/-
4th in PER
5th in VORP

[nineiron]

So are you saying he was first team All-NBA due to media bias? The media didn't have a say in the numbers below:

9th in the league in win shares
3rd in +/-
4th in PER
5th in VORP

22/8/6

[tontoz]

22/8/6

22 ppg was 8th in league that year.

Feel free to list all the forwards that had at least 8 rebounds and 6 assists. :lol

Pippen was also 2nd in the league in steals that year.

[ShawkFactory]

22/8/6

Those are very good numbers in the slowed down 90s.

When you add in the elite defense and intangiblies (as the advanced metrics note)...then yea, first team All-NBA

[nineiron]

Those are very good numbers in the slowed down 90s.

When you add in the elite defense and intangiblies (as the advanced metrics note)...then yea, first team All-NBA

that was his best year. his career averages are trash.

[ShawkFactory]

that was his best year. his career averages are trash.

Deflection

[nineiron]

Deflection

facts

[sdot_thadon]

Funny how these guys are cherry picked for their ppg capabilities. :roll:

Correction, funny how this die hard Kobe Stan cherry picked these guys for their ppg capabilities....

[RRR3]

Oh dear another thread where OP gets embarrassed.

[sdot_thadon]

but, but, but his defense was so good. :cry:

dude wasn't elite at ANYTHING.

He was perhaps the most elite wing defender....ever.

[RRR3]

He was perhaps the most elite wing defender....ever.
Average Kobe stan IQ: 38


Like arguing with a gerbil.

[sdot_thadon]

Average Kobe stan IQ: 38


Like arguing with a gerbil.

coastalmarker99 already used him as a Kobe logoed punching bag, which is his basic level purpose here anyway....

[HoopsNY]

Pippen is overrated, but I wouldn't say he's the most overrated player in history. That title probably belongs to KG.

[RRR3]

Pippen overrated, but I wouldn't say he's the most overrated player in history. That title probably belongs to KG.
It’s Kobe by a wide margin.

[ShawkFactory]

facts

Something being a "fact" doesn't mean it isn't a deflection.

[RogueBorg]

Average Kobe stan IQ: 38


Like arguing with a gerbil.

What does it say about YOUR IQ knowing what it's like to argue with a gerbil?

[nineiron]

has anyone been considered an all time great with a best season stat line of: 22/8/6?

[nineiron]

on top of that, Pippen benefited greatly from playing with MJ. he got SO many EASY buckets - probably more so than any player in NBA history.

meanwhile, LeBrick's "2nd option" Kyrie (we all know Kyrie was the 1st option scorer), was averaging >25ppg in the regular season and finals by creating his own shots.

[tontoz]

has anyone been considered an all time great with a best season stat line of: 22/8/6?


Off the top of my head Joe Dumars is in the HOF with a best season of 23.5/4/2.

[nineiron]

Off the top of my head Joe Dumars is in the HOF with a best season of 23.5/4/2.

Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady are also in the HOF. so what?

show me ANY top 30 list that includes Joe Dumars.

i said ALL TIME GREAT. being in the HOF doesn't make you an all time great.

[tontoz]

Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady are also in the HOF. so what?

show me ANY top 30 list that includes Joe Dumars.

i said ALL TIME GREAT. being in the HOF doesn't make you an all time great.



So you are saying a Hall of Famer isn't an all time great? :facepalm McGrady led the league in scoring back to back seasons. He was top 8 in the MVP race 6 times.

Top 30 is a high bar. I probably wouldn't put Pippen top 30. Not of big fan of these ranking lists but i would probably put him somewhere between 30 and 50.

Where would you rank Pippen? 200?

[nineiron]

So you are saying a Hall of Famer isn't an all time great? :facepalm

Top 30 is a high bar. I probably wouldn't put Pippen top 30. Not of big fan of these ranking lists but i would probably put him somewhere between 30 and 50.

Where would you rank Pippen? 200?

probably somewhere between 50 and 100. and over the next 5-10 years he'll be outside the top 100.

are you saying that anyone who is in the HOF should be considered an all time great?

[tontoz]

probably somewhere between 50 and 100. and over the next 5-10 years he'll be outside the top 100.

are you saying that anyone who is in the HOF should be considered an all time great?


Yes i would think being in the HOF automatically qualifies someone as an all time great considering how many players have played in the NBA. Not to mention how hard it is to get to the NBA in the first place.

There are 177 players in the HOF. When you consider that roughly 4,500 players have played in the NBA i think being in the top 177 is definitely an all time great.

[nineiron]

Yes i would think being in the HOF automatically qualifies someone as an all time great considering how many players have played in the NBA. Not to mention how hard it is to get to the NBA in the first place.

There are 177 players in the HOF. When you consider that roughly 4,500 players have played in the NBA i think being in the top 177 is definitely an all time great.


Dražen Petrović
Chris Mullin
Arvydas Sabonis
Mitch Richmond


so you consider the above players "all time greats"?

[sdot_thadon]

Dražen Petrović
Chris Mullin
Arvydas Sabonis
Mitch Richmond


so you consider the above players "all time greats"?

You haven't even seen one of those guys play, not even one.

[tontoz]

Dražen Petrović
Chris Mullin
Arvydas Sabonis
Mitch Richmond


so you consider the above players "all time greats"?

Of course.

Keep in mind that the HOF isn't just NBA players. It is also for international players. Sabonis in particular was a beast internationally long before he came to the NBA at age 31. Petrovic was also beasting internationally before coming here at age 25. Unfortunately he was killed at age 28 just hitting his prime. He shot 43.7% from 3 for his career.

Mullin is borderline but averaged 25+ for 5 straight seasons. Mitch averaged 22+ for his first 10 seasons.

[nineiron]

You haven't even seen one of those guys play, not even one.

i've seen 3 of those 4 play

[nineiron]

Of course.

Keep in mind that the HOF isn't just NBA players. It is also for international players. Sabonis in particular was a beast internationally long before he came to the NBA at age 31. Petrovic was also beasting internationally before coming here at age 25. Unfortunately he was killed at age 28 just hitting his prime. He shot 43.7% from 3 for his career.

Mullin is borderline but averaged 25+ for 5 straight seasons. Mitch averaged 22+ for his first 10 seasons.

you have low standards for "all time great" then

[Overdrive]

probably somewhere between 50 and 100. and over the next 5-10 years he'll be outside the top 100.

are you saying that anyone who is in the HOF should be considered an all time great?

Top 100? Check top 100 lists and tell me with a straight face he's in the range of those players. The 80ish to 100 range is full of players that had peaks on Pippen's prime level or a worse prime years.

Pippen is overrated as of lately by Lebron stans and underrated by Jordan ******gers.

As a player I'd rate him elow Wade, but careerwise he's in his range.

[tontoz]

you have low standards for "all time great" then

A Hall of Famer is an all time great by definition. You can't get into the Hall if your aren't.

Top 30 is really exclusive when you consider that the NBA started prior to 1950. :lol

[nineiron]

Top 100? Check top 100 lists and tell me with a straight face he's in the range of those players. The 80ish to 100 range is full of players that had peaks on Pippen's prime level or a worse prime years.

Pippen is overrated as of lately by Lebron stans and underrated by Jordan ******gers.

As a player I'd rate him elow Wade, but careerwise he's in his range.

he's not even on the same planet as Wade as a player.

[nineiron]

A Hall of Famer is an all time great by definition. You can't get into the Hall if your aren't.

Top 30 is really exclusive when you consider that the NBA started prior to 1950. :lol

there are PLENTY of idiots that have him in the top 30.

[Overdrive]

he's not even on the same planet as Wade as a player.

Skill and career are two different entities.

[tontoz]

there are PLENTY of idiots that have him in the top 30.


Like who?

I would definitely rank Wade higher than Pippen. He was elite on both ends.

[nineiron]

Skill and career are two different entities.

you're right. and without MJ, Pippen's career would have been trash, just like his skill level.

[nineiron]

Like who?

I would definitely rank Wade higher than Pippen. He was elite on both ends.

look up any top 30 or top 50 list from pretty much any media outlet and you'll see Pippen's name there.

also, look at all the retards in this forum who have Pippen in their top 20.

[tontoz]

look up any top 30 or top 50 list from pretty much any media outlet and you'll see Pippen's name there.

also, look at all the retards in this forum who have Pippen in their top 20.

There are several guys in the league now that i would take over Pippen that will probably be top 30 by the time they are done. Updated lists probably won't have Pippen top 30 for long.

I generally don't pay much attention to these ranking lists.

[Overdrive]

you're right. and without MJ, Pippen's career would have been trash, just like his skill level.

He might've landed on the Sonics, bloomed late still netting them Payton and maybe even Kemp and putting them over the top while Jordan might've not won a single championship. Maybe Jordan would've gotten another great 2nd banana while Pippen would've never made it out of the first round.

We'll never know. What we know is that Pippen according to anyone directly involved was vital to 6 titles.

[AussieSteve]

you're right. and without MJ, Pippen's career would have been trash, just like his skill level.

Pippen made the playoffs every single year of his career, aside from his last in which he missed most of the season. Without Jordan he had 6 straight 50+ win seasons.

A Pippen led team essentially never won less than 50 games. A Jordan led team never won more than 40.

Pippen led teams win. Isn't that the #1 skill in basketball?

[nineiron]

Pippen made the playoffs every single year of his career, aside from his last in which he missed most of the season. Without Jordan he had 6 straight 50+ win seasons.

A Pippen led team essentially never won less than 50 games. A Jordan led team never won more than 40.

Pippen led teams win. Isn't that the #1 skill in basketball?

winning in a team game is a skill? so Robert Horry must be one skilled mutha****a. same with Danny Green.

what were Pippen's numbers like when he "made the playoffs every single year of his career"?

[nineiron]

He might've landed on the Sonics, bloomed late still netting them Payton and maybe even Kemp and putting them over the top while Jordan might've not won a single championship. Maybe Jordan would've gotten another great 2nd banana while Pippen would've never made it out of the first round.

We'll never know. What we know is that Pippen according to anyone directly involved was vital to 6 titles.

have you ever watched Pippen play?

on that Sonics team, Pippen would have been 4th option after Kemp, Schrempf and Payton.

[Axe]

Pippen is overrated, but I wouldn't say he's the most overrated player in history. That title probably belongs to KG.
I can say stephen curry is overrated in the playoffs. Dude can literally do nothing outside of shooting tons of threes and is good as useless when he isn't nailing many of them.

[AussieSteve]

have you ever watched Pippen play?

on that Sonics team, Pippen would have been 4th option after Kemp, Schrempf and Payton.

Pippen has more 1st team All NBA selections and MVP votes and Player of the Month awards than all those three combined.

[nineiron]

Pippen has more 1st team All NBA selections and MVP votes and Player of the Month awards than all those three combined.

the benefits of playing with MJ.

Kemp and Payton > Pippen. all day.

[nineiron]

I can say stephen curry is overrated in the playoffs. Dude can literally do nothing outside of shooting tons of threes and is good as useless when he isn't nailing many of them.

he can turn the ball over like no one. ok maybe LeBrick, Siakam and Harden got him beat there.

[tontoz]

I can say stephen curry is overrated in the playoffs. Dude can literally do nothing outside of shooting tons of threes and is good as useless when he isn't nailing many of them.

Your obsession with Steph is really pathetic. You seem to feel the need to bring him up in threads that have nothing to do with him.

I bet you can't name one guard in NBA history besides Steph with a career playoff average of 26 ppg while also having a TS over 60%.

[8Ball]

Pippen won 55 games without Jordan.
Jordan is 1-9 without Pippen.

[nineiron]

Pippen won 55 games without Jordan.
Jordan is 1-9 without Pippen.

where do you rank Pippen overall?

[Overdrive]

have you ever watched Pippen play?

on that Sonics team, Pippen would have been 4th option after Kemp, Schrempf and Payton.

Have you? Schrempf wouldn't be on the Sonic if Pippen was there. Schrempf was Pippen's back up on the Blazers. Payton scored, because he needed to. Pippen would be 2nd option at worst. Kemp at his peak didn't score much more than Pippen.

[8Ball]

where do you rank Pippen overall?

Top 20-25 all time. Around where Wade is all time.

[nineiron]

Have you? Schrempf wouldn't be on the Sonic if Pippen was there. Schrempf was Pippen's back up on the Blazers. Payton scored, because he needed to. Pippen would be 2nd option at worst. Kemp at his peak didn't score much more than Pippen.

Kemp didn't have MJ spoon feeding him buckets all night.

[Axe]

you're right. and without MJ, Pippen's career would have been trash, just like his skill level.
Lol pippen went far more than mj did without each other.

[Overdrive]

Kemp didn't have MJ spoon feeding him buckets all night.

Hahahahaha. Way to confirm you never watched the Bulls.

[Axe]

Your obsession with Steph is really pathetic. You seem to feel the need to bring him up in threads that have nothing to do with him.

I bet you can't name one guard in NBA history besides Steph with a career playoff average of 26 ppg while also having a TS over 60%.
I mean like what's been said before, that came as a result of his teammates setting up screens for him to allow him in taking wide, open shots.

[tontoz]

I mean like what's been said before, that came as a result of his teammates setting up screens for him to allow him in taking wide, open shots.

So the best 3 point shooter in league history is getting open shots just from guys setting screens?

:roll:


If it's that easy why don't other teams do it?

[SaintzFury13]

but, but, but his defense was so good. :cry:

dude wasn't elite at ANYTHING.

9 time all defense selections and he wasn't elite at anything?

Don't be a retard.

[SaintzFury13]

Double post

[nineiron]

9 time all defense selections and he wasn't elite at anything?

Don't be a retard.

How does someone become “elite” at defense. Please enlighten us

[3ba11]

A few guys that won 55 games with 2nd Round loss, or better:

Blake Griffin
Marc Gasol
KJ
Lowry


that's pippen's caliber at his peak

[SaintzFury13]

How does someone become “elite” at defense. Please enlighten us

By playing the game, learning, developing, and becoming part of an elite system that allows you the chance to defend opposing players or teams better. In Pippen's case, he was always a pretty great defender from the day he stepped in the league. It was his offensive game that was sorely lacking.

[3ba11]

By playing the game, learning, developing, and becoming part of an elite system that allows you the chance to defend opposing players or teams better. In Pippen's case, he was always a pretty great defender from the day he stepped in the league. It was his offensive game that was sorely lacking.


the bolded is nonsense

pippen was physically weak and bad at everything until 91', when he finally reached and surpassed Mo Williams statistically

[SaintzFury13]

the bolded is nonsense

pippen was physically weak and bad at everything until 91', when he finally reached and surpassed Mo Williams statistically

You didn't watch basketball in the 90s.

Stop pretending that you did.

[nineiron]

By playing the game, learning, developing, and becoming part of an elite system that allows you the chance to defend opposing players or teams better. In Pippen's case, he was always a pretty great defender from the day he stepped in the league. It was his offensive game that was sorely lacking.

So you consider defensive prowess a skill?

I guess you think Rodman and Beverly are highly skilled players

[Axe]

So the best 3 point shooter in league history is getting open shots just from guys setting screens?

:roll:


If it's that easy why don't other teams do it?
Because they don't have the luxury of having bonafide all-star teammates like he did during their glorious days, duh. :rolleyes:

[tontoz]

Because they don't have the luxury of having bonafide all-star teammates like he did during their glorious days, duh. :rolleyes:


He just won a scoring title with no all star teammates with a TS over 65%. Only one other person in history has done that. Steph has done it twice.

Steph only averages 12 ppg in the playoffs on 3s. Most of his points come from 2s/fts.

[Axe]

He just won a scoring title with no all star teammates with a TS over 65%. Only one other person in history has done that. Steph has done it twice.

Steph only averages 12 ppg in the playoffs on 3s. Most of his points come from 2s/fts.
Yep, impressive feats in the rs at the expense of not making it to the playoffs. You can blame the losers bracket doe for it but it is what it is.

[sdot_thadon]

Have you? Schrempf wouldn't be on the Sonic if Pippen was there. Schrempf was Pippen's back up on the Blazers. Payton scored, because he needed to. Pippen would be 2nd option at worst. Kemp at his peak didn't score much more than Pippen.

Hes full of it , he's never seen any of the guys he's name dropping play. It's super see -through clear. He should stick to telling us about Kobe. If Scottie was drafted to the Sonics instead of with Mj he likely focuses more on scoring in his development rather than playmaking and fills whatever gaps the team lacks as the young Kemp and Gp come in a few years afterward. Their defensive unit would be absolutely nasty and maybe they win a chip or a few in the 90s in this hypothetical.


How does someone become “elite” at defense. Please enlighten us
Wtf? The same way you become elite at any aspect of basketball, you work at it. The same way Kobe and Mj before him became elite on the defensive end. The same way Lebron or Kawhi became that way. No one enters the league all defense caliber unless they are just a unicorn in that regard.

[nineiron]

Hes full of it , he's never seen any of the guys he's name dropping play. It's super see -through clear. He should stick to telling us about Kobe. If Scottie was drafted to the Sonics instead of with Mj he likely focuses more on scoring in his development rather than playmaking and fills whatever gaps the team lacks as the young Kemp and Gp come in a few years afterward. Their defensive unit would be absolutely nasty and maybe they win a chip or a few in the 90s in this hypothetical.


Wtf? The same way you become elite at any aspect of basketball, you work at it. The same way Kobe and Mj before him became elite on the defensive end. The same way Lebron or Kawhi became that way. No one enters the league all defense caliber unless they are just a unicorn in that regard.

Did you just use the term “playmaker” and Pippen in the same sentence?

Defense in basketball is accomplished as a team. You work on it as a team. Pippen focused on individual defense because that’s all he had. His offensive skill level was too low to do anything else.

[AussieSteve]

the benefits of playing with MJ.

Kemp and Payton > Pippen. all day.

Pretty sure that a bunch of pippen's 1st team selections and player of the months and MVP votes came in seasons where Jordan didn't play all or most of.

[SATAN]

dude wasn't elite at ANYTHING.

Elite defender.

I've never seen a guy get owned so badly in his own thread before. Congratulations on the 8 pages though. :lol

[sdot_thadon]

Did you just use the term “playmaker” and Pippen in the same sentence?

Defense in basketball is accomplished as a team. You work on it as a team. Pippen focused on individual defense because that’s all he had. His offensive skill level was too low to do anything else.

Yeah I did, he was the primary playmaker for the Bulls, the point forward as he was called during the actual era. He was the guy who tutored teammates on the concepts of the triangle from what stories are told, Phil actually looked to Scottie to help Kobe with the triangle early in his career. He was fine on offense he just wasn't a goat tier scorer like his famous teammate, there were stretches where he mimicked Mj like a cheap knock off with some success though.

And defense is a team concept as much as offense is in basketball, a team game lol. But Scottie was an all time standout on that end, both within the team concept and as a stand alone defender.

[SaintzFury13]

So you consider defensive prowess a skill?

I guess you think Rodman and Beverly are highly skilled players

...have you not played a single game of basketball in your life?

[nineiron]

Yeah I did, he was the primary playmaker for the Bulls, the point forward as he was called during the actual era. He was the guy who tutored teammates on the concepts of the triangle from what stories are told, Phil actually looked to Scottie to help Kobe with the triangle early in his career. He was fine on offense he just wasn't a goat tier scorer like his famous teammate, there were stretches where he mimicked Mj like a cheap knock off with some success though.

And defense is a team concept as much as offense is in basketball, a team game lol. But Scottie was an all time standout on that end, both within the team concept and as a stand alone defender.

The Bulls offense was anchored by MJ. Defense was a team effort, that’s why they were still able to make the playoffs without him.

[nineiron]

So you consider defensive prowess a skill?

I guess you think Rodman and Beverly are highly skilled players


...have you not played a single game of basketball in your life?

Yeah I played plenty

Why don’t you answer the question?

[SaintzFury13]

Yeah I played plenty

Why don’t you answer the question?

I did answer the question. What I just said should be blatantly obvious as to what my answer to that question is.

[sdot_thadon]

The Bulls offense was anchored by MJ. Defense was a team effort, that’s why they were still able to make the playoffs without him.

The scoring was anchored by Mj, the getting lesser guys involved was Scotties job. Mj and Pippen spearheaded the defense together but yes usually that team played great defense. That doesn't diminsh the impact Pippen or Mj made Individually on that end though. You need to watch some games fella.

[outofstomach]

...have you not played a single game of basketball in your life?

defense is mainly motor, heart and effort, the most “skillful” thing you could pin on it is positioning (which is basically IQ) and timing for blocks

[nineiron]

defense is mainly motor, heart and effort, the most “skillful” thing you could pin on it is positioning (which is basically IQ) and timing for blocks

That clown thinks it’s a skill probably because it’s the only thing he can do on the court

[coastalmarker99]

The Bulls in 1994 had all kinds of challenges. The only consistent key guys from that title team were Pippen, Horace and BJ.

Both Pippen and Horace Grant missed 10+ games that year. Pippen was dealing with a bum ankle that plagued him since '92 and trying to recover from offseason surgery which resulted in the slow start by the Bulls. Cartwright was on his last leg and only played half the season.

Paxson was on his last leg and barely played. Scott Williams was injured most of the year.

Just about all of the new faces (Kerr, Myers, Jo Jo English, Wennington, Longley, etc) on the Bulls were journeyman roleplayers that came from losing franchises...barely any playoff experience whatsoever and they had to learn the triangle offence. Kukoc had trouble adjusting in his first year of the NBA.


His defence was a sore spot, there was never any consistency in his play and his shooting was erratic.

And maybe if Jordan hadn't made such a shit move of retiring 3 weeks before the season started the Bulls could have gotten better replacements than Pete Myers (probably the worst SG in Bulls history not named Keith Bogans) and Jo Jo English but they had to scramble to replace him with whatever they could find on short notice.


Under those circumstances, it's amazing the 1994 Bulls won 55 games. Could have won more if Pippen and Horace were completely healthy at the start of the season.

[sdot_thadon]

That clown thinks it’s a skill probably because it’s the only thing he can do on the court

Do team practice it? And footwork and positioning are absolutely a skill, it's ridiculous to think defense just boils down to wanting it more.

[nineiron]

Do team practice it? And footwork and positioning are absolutely a skill, it's ridiculous to think defense just boils down to wanting it more.

Footwork for defense is a skill? Please tell us more about this

[And1AllDay]

1-9 stains should be more thankful for pip saving mikes failure career

[Axe]

The Bulls in 1994 had all kinds of challenges. The only consistent key guys from that title team were Pippen, Horace and BJ.

Both Pippen and Horace Grant missed 10+ games that year. Pippen was dealing with a bum ankle that plagued him since '92 and trying to recover from offseason surgery which resulted in the slow start by the Bulls. Cartwright was on his last leg and only played half the season.

Paxson was on his last leg and barely played. Scott Williams was injured most of the year.

Just about all of the new faces (Kerr, Myers, Jo Jo English, Wennington, Longley, etc) on the Bulls were journeyman roleplayers that came from losing franchises...barely any playoff experience whatsoever and they had to learn the triangle offence. Kukoc had trouble adjusting in his first year of the NBA.


His defence was a sore spot, there was never any consistency in his play and his shooting was erratic.

And maybe if Jordan hadn't made such a shit move of retiring 3 weeks before the season started the Bulls could have gotten better replacements than Pete Myers (probably the worst SG in Bulls history not named Keith Bogans) and Jo Jo English but they had to scramble to replace him with whatever they could find on short notice.


Under those circumstances, it's amazing the 1994 Bulls won 55 games. Could have won more if Pippen and Horace were completely healthy at the start of the season.
Roundball_Rock would have complimented this post seductively.

[Bankaii]

defense is mainly motor, heart and effort, the most “skillful” thing you could pin on it is positioning (which is basically IQ) and timing for blocks
I’m convinced none of the dudes on here actually hoop lmao.
Westbrook has one of the GOAT motors, heart, effort, etc. He’s an average defender at best.
Kawhi has a terrible motor and has never been a guy associated with “heart”, and is one of the GOAT defenders in his prime.
Defense is a skill. You’re retarded.

[nineiron]

I’m convinced none of the dudes on here actually hoop lmao.
Westbrook has one of the GOAT motors, heart, effort, etc. He’s an average defender at best.
Kawhi has a terrible motor and has never been a guy associated with “heart”, and is one of the GOAT defenders in his prime.
Defense is a skill. You’re retarded.

Lmfao. You think westbrick actually tries on defense. Lmfao

[Reggie43]

Defense is definitely a skill. Thats the reason why you see old dudes in the league with diminished athleticism still making a living at that side of the floor. The aforementioned positioning, timing, knowing when to take a charge or contest a shot, having quick hands and feet etc.

These are some things you cant just easily teach and believe me I tried hard with some younger teammates. Guys just need experience in certain situations to react properly. Effort is essential defensively but you will be running around like a headless chicken if you dont have the skill and fundamentals to do it.

[HoopsNY]

Have you? Schrempf wouldn't be on the Sonic if Pippen was there. Schrempf was Pippen's back up on the Blazers. Payton scored, because he needed to. Pippen would be 2nd option at worst. Kemp at his peak didn't score much more than Pippen.

Tough to say, peak Kemp in the playoffs between '95-'98 in the playoffs was averaging 22 PPG on 62% TS%. Pippen between '92-'95 put up 21 PPG on 53% TS%.

I trust Kemp to score more than Pippen if we're looking at their peak play. I agree Pippen is a better scorer than Schrempf, though.

[nineiron]

Defense is definitely a skill. Thats the reason why you see old dudes in the league with diminished athleticism still making a living at that side of the floor. The aforementioned positioning, timing, knowing when to take a charge or contest a shot, having quick hands and feet etc.

These are some things you cant just easily teach and believe me I tried hard with some younger teammates. Guys just need experience in certain situations to react properly. Effort is essential defensively but you will be running around like a headless chicken if you dont have the skill and fundamentals to do it.

Name one old dude who’s an elite defender currently

[sdot_thadon]

Name one old dude who’s an elite defender currently

I'm confused I don't see the words old guy and elite in his post, you do?

[nineiron]

Defense is definitely a skill. Thats the reason why you see old dudes in the league with diminished athleticism still making a living at that side of the floor. The aforementioned positioning, timing, knowing when to take a charge or contest a shot, having quick hands and feet etc.

These are some things you cant just easily teach and believe me I tried hard with some younger teammates. Guys just need experience in certain situations to react properly. Effort is essential defensively but you will be running around like a headless chicken if you dont have the skill and fundamentals to do it.


I'm confused I don't see the words old guy and elite in his post, you do?

he's probably talking about someone like Marc Gasol. is Gasol going to be able to guard an athletic big man that can play from the perimeter? (eg. AD).

having some basketball IQ is important for defense. but at the end of the day, it will come down to athleticism and effort.

[Overdrive]

he's probably talking about someone like Marc Gasol. is Gasol going to be able to guard an athletic big man that can play from the perimeter? (eg. AD).

having some basketball IQ is important for defense. but at the end of the day, it will come down to athleticism and effort.

How can someone trying to prop up Jordan discredit defense? The only thing left then might be his superior jump shooting skill from the midrange.

[nineiron]

How can someone trying to prop up Jordan discredit defense? The only thing left then might be his superior jump shooting skill from the midrange.

no one needs to "prop up" MJ.

i'm not 'discrediting' defense. i just don't think it's a skill.

[RRR3]

If athleticism is all that mattered for defense Gerald Green would have been a DPOY

[tontoz]

Javale McGee has size and athleticism but his defense was his primary weakness when he played for us because he was so clueless. It was painful to watch.

[nineiron]

If athleticism is all that mattered for defense Gerald Green would have been a DPOY


Javale McGee has size and athleticism but his defense was his primary weakness when he played for us because he was so clueless. It was painful to watch.

desire, effort and endurance. some guys just don't care or don't have the endurance.

McGee does block and change shots. but with his limited playing time, you think he's thinking about improving his defense?

[nineiron]

If athleticism is all that mattered for defense Gerald Green would have been a DPOY

Gerald Green is far from the most athletic guy in the league.

[tontoz]

desire, effort and endurance. some guys just don't care or don't have the endurance.

McGee does block and change shots. but with his limited playing time, you think he's thinking about improving his defense?


His limited minutes are because of his ineffectiveness. McGee signed a big contract with Denver after we got rid of him. That didn't work out well.


George Karl on JaVale McGee: 'Lazy and Crazy' Won't Work in the NBA

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1493135-george-karl-on-javale-mcgee-lazy-and-crazy-wont-work-in-the-nba

[Overdrive]

no one needs to "prop up" MJ.

i'm not 'discrediting' defense. i just don't think it's a skill.

That's true, you do what you guys accuse Lebron stans of doing, bashing his teammates.

Of course defense is a skill. You have to know where your hands are, the right stance is very important, read the right bodyparts of the offensive player, etcetc. Effort and athleticism alone doesn't do shit. That's like saying quickness is all you need to be a good ballet dancer.

Ironically there's a video of Jordan on youtube where he explains how to play man to man defense.

[nineiron]

His limited minutes are because of his ineffectiveness. McGee signed a big contract with Denver after we got rid of him. That didn't work out well.



https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1493135-george-karl-on-javale-mcgee-lazy-and-crazy-wont-work-in-the-nba

"lazy", exactly my point.

[nineiron]

That's true, you do what you guys accuse Lebron stans of doing, bashing his teammates.

Of course defense is a skill. You have to know where your hands are, the right stance is very important, read the right bodyparts of the offensive player, etcetc. Effort and athleticism alone doesn't do shit. That's like saying quickness is all you need to be a good ballet dancer.

Ironically there's a video of Jordan on youtube where he explains how to play man to man defense.

wtf did i just read?

[RRR3]

I am a dim bulb troll
:applause:

[Overdrive]

wtf did i just read?

You can't refute my points.

[nineiron]

That's true, you do what you guys accuse Lebron stans of doing, bashing his teammates.

Of course defense is a skill. You have to know where your hands are, the right stance is very important, read the right bodyparts of the offensive player, etcetc. Effort and athleticism alone doesn't do shit. That's like saying quickness is all you need to be a good ballet dancer.

Ironically there's a video of Jordan on youtube where he explains how to play man to man defense.


You can't refute my points.

so knowing where to be on the court is a skill? do you have to practice being at a certain spot? i guess if you're slow like RRR3 you have to practice it over and over. but anyone with average intelligence should be able grasp the concept.

but please, tell us more about quickness and ballet.

[SaintzFury13]

so knowing where to be on the court is a skill? do you have to practice being at a certain spot? i guess if you're slow like RRR3 you have to practice it over and over. but anyone with average intelligence should be able grasp the concept.

but please, tell us more about quickness and ballet.

Again, further proof you've never played a game of basketball in your life. We are now at the point where you are actually trying to argue that being a great defender doesn't require skill.

This is 3ball levels of stupidity. I just can't believe what I'm reading.


That clown thinks it’s a skill probably because it’s the only thing he can do on the court

Defense was the only thing I COULDN'T do on the court. I was terrible at it. And it wasn't like I lacked the athleticism or anything. I even had the stamina and cardio to keep up and down the court all day with opposing players. The problem is that it was built into me growing up that offense was the only thing that mattered and that I should dedicate all my attention and focus to that. I never once gave any thought about how valuable defense was until it was already too late. Little things like knowing when to keep my hands up and having proper footwork and knowing when to react to a ball handler based on their positioning with the ball, etc. The biggest bitch was knowing how to properly lock up someone without fouling. A legitimately good offensive player can make any player who doesn't know what they're doing on defense foul unintentionally, and they'll be bamboozled because they don't realize they even did in the first place.

Don't try to tell us you've played basketball before. You clearly didn't. You're trying to sit here and act like defense is an easier thing to learn than offense. What a crock of shit.

[SaintzFury13]

defense is mainly motor, heart and effort, the most “skillful” thing you could pin on it is positioning (which is basically IQ) and timing for blocks

You're almost as big of an idiot as the OP is.

[nineiron]

Again, further proof you've never played a game of basketball in your life. We are now at the point where you are actually trying to argue that being a great defender doesn't require skill.

This is 3ball levels of stupidity. I just can't believe what I'm reading.

lebron hasn't made the all defensive team since 2012. is it because of his lack of skill?

[SaintzFury13]

he's probably talking about someone like Marc Gasol. is Gasol going to be able to guard an athletic big man that can play from the perimeter? (eg. AD).

having some basketball IQ is important for defense. but at the end of the day, it will come down to athleticism and effort.

Marc Gasol in Toronto clearly out of his prime constantly gave fits to guys like Embiid on the defensive end of the floor, and he was a nightmare for Golden State to deal with because he was one of the few guys with good enough footwork to effectively guard the perimeter so they couldn't abuse him on that end. Andrew Bogut, despite being past his glory days and clearly bothered by all of his past injuries, was still an elite defensive player for Golden State and even locked down quite a few of the best centers in the NBA. Already seeing a pattern here? In case you haven't yet, these weren't just tall and lengthy centers. They were legitimately skilled players who had good footwork, instincts and overall awareness.

You want to see just how valuable skill is on defense?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC-mTgXRfm8

This is Kevin Love's famous defensive stoppage of Curry in the 2016 NBA finals. Kevin Love has almost no athleticism, is slow footed and has short arms. He's a prime target for great offensive players to score on. But a lot of people never pay attention to the fact that Kevin, despite all of these flaws, had great footwork and defensive instincts. He would usually let people in the paint fly right by him because he knew he couldn't do anything to stop them.

In this moment, Kevin Love knew Curry was going for a three pointer so he stayed as tight and close to him as he possibly could, constantly having one hand up at all times to put himself in position to have a hand up if he needed to. Despite Curry still being much faster and having some of the best handles in the NBA, he couldn't shake Kevin off because Kevin's footwork allowed him to stay with Curry at all times. All of this, right here? These are skills, that Kevin developed over time in the NBA. It wasn't something he learned over night. And without those skills, he would have gotten lit up by Curry just like most of the other players who tried their hand at containing Curry at the perimeter.

So please, don't try to tell us you don't need skill to be a good defensive player. That's bullshit and you know it.

[SaintzFury13]

lebron hasn't made the all defensive team since 2012. is it because of his lack of skill?

He was first team all defense in 2013 (and should have been the DPOY) and second team all defense in 2014. Stop being a moron.

And no, him not making the team anymore after that is entirely due to a lack of effort on his part. He chooses to put all of that energy into the offensive end of the floor.

[nineiron]

He was first team all defense in 2013 (and should have been the DPOY) and second team all defense in 2014. Stop being a moron.

And no, him not making the team anymore after that is entirely due to a lack of effort on his part. He chooses to put all of that energy into the offensive end of the floor.

why does he need effort when he's so skilled at it?

[nineiron]

Marc Gasol in Toronto clearly out of his prime constantly gave fits to guys like Embiid on the defensive end of the floor, and he was a nightmare for Golden State to deal with because he was one of the few guys with good enough footwork to effectively guard the perimeter so they couldn't abuse him on that end. Andrew Bogut, despite being past his glory days and clearly bothered by all of his past injuries, was still an elite defensive player for Golden State and even locked down quite a few of the best centers in the NBA. Already seeing a pattern here? In case you haven't yet, these weren't just tall and lengthy centers. They were legitimately skilled players who had good footwork, instincts and overall awareness.

You want to see just how valuable skill is on defense?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC-mTgXRfm8

This is Kevin Love's famous defensive stoppage of Curry in the 2016 NBA finals. Kevin Love has almost no athleticism, is slow footed and has short arms. He's a prime target for great offensive players to score on. But a lot of people never pay attention to the fact that Kevin, despite all of these flaws, had great footwork and defensive instincts. He would usually let people in the paint fly right by him because he knew he couldn't do anything to stop them.

In this moment, Kevin Love knew Curry was going for a three pointer so he stayed as tight and close to him as he possibly could, constantly having one hand up at all times to put himself in position to have a hand up if he needed to. Despite Curry still being much faster and having some of the best handles in the NBA, he couldn't shake Kevin off because Kevin's footwork allowed him to stay with Curry at all times. All of this, right here? These are skills, that Kevin developed over time in the NBA. It wasn't something he learned over night. And without those skills, he would have gotten lit up by Curry just like most of the other players who tried their hand at containing Curry at the perimeter.

So please, don't try to tell us you don't need skill to be a good defensive player. That's bullshit and you know it.

you think Embiid is athletic?

[ShawkFactory]

so knowing where to be on the court is a skill?

Holy shit :roll:

[nineiron]

there's a difference between knowledge and skill.

but i wouldn't expect a mouth breathing bran stan to get it.

[ShawkFactory]

skill
/skil/
Learn to pronounce

noun

the ability to do something well; expertise.


No, there isn't a difference. Knowing where to be on the basketball court during a basketball game requires expertise, aka Skill.

You think skill is fancy dribbling and shooting. Hence why everyone is calling you stupid.

[nineiron]

skill
/skil/
Learn to pronounce

noun

the ability to do something well; expertise.


No, there isn't a difference. Knowing where to be on the basketball court during a basketball game requires expertise, aka Skill.

You think skill is fancy dribbling and shooting. Hence why everyone is calling you stupid.

"the ability to do something well". so if someone is naturally a fast runner and does it "well", that makes them skilled?

ok bran stan.

[nineiron]

maybe you bran stans are right. maybe defense is a skill. i guess LeBrick isn't very skilled at playing defense:

https://i.imgflip.com/2v8q8h.gif

[ShawkFactory]

"the ability to do something well". so if someone is naturally a good runner and does it "well", that makes them skilled?

ok bran stan.

Yes...by definition. Although you can also include the word expertise in there. Expertise meaning: Expert skill or knowledge in a particular field.

So if expertise = knowledge, and skill = expertise...you see where I'm going with this?

I swear, people like you don't even know why MJ, Bird, and Kobe are as skilled as they are. A lot of people can dribble well, a lot of people can shoot, a lot of people have great athleticism. And a lot of people have all 3 at the same time. Why then are those three guys considered the most "skilled" (hint: knowledge and positioning should be worked into your answer)?

[nineiron]

Yes...by definition. Although you can also include the word expertise in there. Expertise meaning: Expert skill or knowledge in a particular field.

So if expertise = knowledge, and skill = expertise...you see where I'm going with this?

I swear, people like you don't even know why MJ, Bird, and Kobe are as skilled as they are. A lot of people can dribble well, a lot of people can shoot, a lot of people have great athleticism. And a lot of people have all 3 at the same time. Why then are those three guys considered the most "skilled" (hint: knowledge and positioning should be worked into your answer)?

i know why MJ Bird and Kobe were as skilled as they were. because they worked hard to hone their skill. unlike someone who is born with great running speed. you see where i'm going with this?

Usain Bolt could have never trained running his entire life while you trained everyday and he would still whoop your ass in a race. whereas, if Steph never shot a basketball and you did nothing but shoot basketballs, you'd probably beat him in a shooting contest.

i swear, people like you don't have any common sense.

[RRR3]

He was first team all defense in 2013 (and should have been the DPOY) and second team all defense in 2014. Stop being a moron.

And no, him not making the team anymore after that is entirely due to a lack of effort on his part. He chooses to put all of that energy into the offensive end of the floor.
He was still good on defense until 2017. And he’s been good on the Lakers. Would have kept making it if every star got the same dicksucking Kobe got from those voters.

[ShawkFactory]

:facepalm Your running analogy doesn't even make sense in this argument.

You said:


so knowing where to be on the court is a skill? do you have to practice being at a certain spot?

The answer in inarguably yes. Knowing where to be is a basketball skill.

Almost all of the greatest players ever typically were in the right spot at the right time. This comes with a lifetime of diligent coaching, practice, and film study. Some people have a more innate ability to be good at this (like any other skill), but it still requires intense honing as it pertains to the construct of the rest of the team.

Listen to any Kobe interview about his take on the way he played. It's always about how to position himself to set up his strengths and attack others' weaknesses. Always

[nineiron]

:facepalm Your running analogy doesn't even make sense in this argument.

You said:



The answer in inarguably yes. Knowing where to be is a basketball skill.

Almost all of the greatest players ever typically were in the right spot at the right time. This comes with a lifetime of diligent coaching, practice, and film study. Some people have a more innate ability to be good at this (like any other skill), but it still requires intense honing as it pertains to the construct of the rest of the team.

Listen to any Kobe interview about his take on the way he played. It's always about how to position himself to set up his strengths and attack others' weaknesses. Always

you mean like this:

https://i.imgflip.com/2v8q8h.gif

[ShawkFactory]

You're right, thank you for clearing that up for me. I have a hard time sometimes

No problem :cheers:

[nineiron]

^^ um, ok.

[nineiron]

back on topic.

how is Pippen regarded as an all time great with a BEST season stat line of 22/6/6 and a CAREER stat line of 16/5/6?

[RRR3]

OP why didn’t you make this thread on your LAL account?

[RogueBorg]

he enjoyed playing in a system. also, you think 22/8/6 makes you an all time great?

Lebrontards have very low expectations. They think a losing record in the Finals is great.

[dankok8]

back on topic.

how is Pippen regarded as an all time great with a BEST season stat line of 22/6/6 and a CAREER stat line of 16/5/6?

Because he's probably the best defender ever at the SF position, just a force on that end. Also because he was better than his stats. Just a highly intelligent player who can fit into the system, pretty much the perfect second best player for a title team. After listing all the guys that led their teams to championships (or clearly could...) which is around 30 names in NBA history, Pippen has to begin getting some serious consideration.

I think Pippen is neither overrated nor underrated by most people. Most credible lists have him around #40 all time which is where he should be. Lebron stans try to put him in the top 25 to discredit Jordan and Jordan stans like Skip Bayless said he's not a top 50 player a while ago which was an even worse thing to say 10 years ago when a bunch of modern guys haven't passed him yet. Now he is at least 4-5 spots back of where he was thanks to Curry, KD, Kawhi, Harden...

[Overdrive]

so knowing where to be on the court is a skill? do you have to practice being at a certain spot? i guess if you're slow like RRR3 you have to practice it over and over. but anyone with average intelligence should be able grasp the concept.

but please, tell us more about quickness and ballet.

You never played organized ball in your life. Thanks for conforming. Yes, you practice defensive and offensive sets, especially in zone defenses. :lol

You learn how you posture on defense, where to keep your hands and arms, what your feet do, how to take contact so you don't foul, how to provoke offensive fouls, how to and when to play lanes, how to defend or deny the post, when to soft/strong hedge or switch,...nobody comes in and can play defense just because he's fast and strong.

All you do saying defense isn't a skill but athleticism is that you admit Jordan was an athletic midrange jumpshooter, you put him on Demar DeRozan's level. Are you a Bron stan?

[nineiron]

You never played organized ball in your life. Thanks for conforming. Yes, you practice defensive and offensive sets, especially in zone defenses. :lol

You learn how you posture on defense, where to keep your hands and arms, what your feet do, how to take contact so you don't foul, how to provoke offensive fouls, how to and when to play lanes, how to defend or deny the post, when to soft/strong hedge or switch,...nobody comes in and can play defense just because he's fast and strong.

All you do saying defense isn't a skill but athleticism is that you admit Jordan was an athletic midrange jumpshooter, you put him on Demar DeRozan's level. Are you a Bron stan?

enough of your high school basketball talk.

[RRR3]

Lebrontards have very low expectations. They think a losing record in the Finals is great.
Do you guys not realize if Pippen wasn’t great it means the era MJ played in was dogshit and LeBron is almost certainly better? You guys are really bad at arguing.

I do have MJ as GOAT before you throw a tantrum about that but your arguments suck.

[nineiron]

Because he's probably the best defender ever at the SF position, just a force on that end. Also because he was better than his stats. Just a highly intelligent player who can fit into the system, pretty much the perfect second best player for a title team. After listing all the guys that led their teams to championships (or clearly could...) which is around 30 names in NBA history, Pippen has to begin getting some serious consideration.

I think Pippen is neither overrated nor underrated by most people. Most credible lists have him around #40 all time which is where he should be. Lebron stans try to put him in the top 25 to discredit Jordan and Jordan stans like Skip Bayless said he's not a top 50 player a while ago which was an even worse thing to say 10 years ago when a bunch of modern guys haven't passed him yet. Now he is at least 4-5 spots back of where he was thanks to Curry, KD, Kawhi, Harden...

i'd take Duncan as the best defender at the F position.

perfect second best player for a title team? i think i'd rather have the 2nd option who was averaging 27ppg in the finals.

[ShawkFactory]

^^ um, ok.

Happy to do it, honestly.

[tontoz]

i'd take Duncan as the best defender at the SF position.

perfect second best player for a title team? i think i'd rather have the 2nd option who was averaging 27ppg in the finals.


:roll:

Duncan never played the 3 in his whole career. WTF

[nineiron]

Do you guys not realize if Pippen wasn’t great it means the era MJ played in was dogshit and LeBron is almost certainly better? You guys are really bad at arguing.

I do have MJ as GOAT before you throw a tantrum about that but your arguments suck.

how so? because a bunch of media idiots and bran stans over rate him and put him in the top 30?

[Overdrive]

enough of your high school basketball talk.

You don't know shit. Really. Typical throwback Jordan stan. I usually defend him against Lebron stans, but guys like you are a pest. Why throw Pippen under the bus? It doesn't make Jordan any greater or better. Same for Wade and Lebron. It's a stupid line of thinking.

You still can't refute what I say anyway.

Defense is a skill. You can't compare it to running. Anything you have to learn is a skill.

[sdot_thadon]

back on topic.

how is Pippen regarded as an all time great with a BEST season stat line of 22/6/6 and a CAREER stat line of 16/5/6?

Somethings you just need to see with your eyes and not follow the slanted Stan views on. We know you've never seen pippen play, if you did you were 3. You don't get regarded as highly as this guy did for no reason.

[Overdrive]

how so? because a bunch of media idiots and bran stans over rate him and put him in the top 30?

Accolades.

[jamesmax1991]

Pippen is overrated ? I think you need go back and watch the 90s how we was dominating players on the defense end - and giving them 15-20 ppg on the other end!

Jordan would have not have one 6 without Pippen!

[nineiron]

You don't know shit. Really. Typical throwback Jordan stan. I usually defend him against Lebron stans, but guys like you are a pest. Why throw Pippen under the bus? It doesn't make Jordan any greater or better. Same for Wade and Lebron. It's a stupid line of thinking.

You still can't refute what I say anyway.

Defense is a skill. You can't compare it to running. Anything you have to learn is a skill.

sure, but there are levels to it. you had to learn how to turn on a tv. how much skill is involved.

you want to get very literal because you're losing the argument, i get it.

[Axe]

Somethings you just need to see with your eyes and not follow the slanted Stan views on. We know you've never seen pippen play, if you did you were 3. You don't get regarded as highly as this guy did for no reason.
What's even funnier is that the results of his first season without his first option, in 93-94, weren't enough in his books to prove how great he was in leading the bulls back then.

[nineiron]

Somethings you just need to see with your eyes and not follow the slanted Stan views on. We know you've never seen pippen play, if you did you were 3. You don't get regarded as highly as this guy did for no reason.

oh i've seen him play. he really wasn't much better than Horace Grant.

[nineiron]

Pippen is overrated ? I think you need go back and watch the 90s how we was dominating players on the defense end - and giving them 15-20 ppg on the other end!

Jordan would have not have one 6 without Pippen!

wide open dunks and layups

[jamesmax1991]

This is hilarious. Horace Grant was a BEAST but common, Pippen was a much better all around player, on both ends!:oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

sure, but there are levels to it. you had to learn how to turn on a tv. how much skill is involved.

you want to get very literal because you're losing the argument, i get it.
Less than positioning in basketball.

You’re inadvertently proving everyone’s point :lol

[nineiron]

found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTN7JZrBgbQ

not much skill being displayed

[Overdrive]

sure, but there are levels to it. you had to learn how to turn on a tv. how much skill is involved.

you want to get very literal because you're losing the argument, i get it.

What am I losing? You never refuted anything of course there are levels to it. It's the the amount and specialization of people who can teach you skills. Anyone can teach you how to turn on a tv. Only specialized people can show you how to play defense in basketball. Your anologies are ass.

[SaintzFury13]

i know why MJ Bird and Kobe were as skilled as they were. because they worked hard to hone their skill. unlike someone who is born with great running speed. you see where i'm going with this?

Usain Bolt could have never trained running his entire life while you trained everyday and he would still whoop your ass in a race. whereas, if Steph never shot a basketball and you did nothing but shoot basketballs, you'd probably beat him in a shooting contest.

i swear, people like you don't have any common sense.

And this right here is why you're an idiot.

Usain Bolt became one of the fastest runners in the world BECAUSE he worked so hard at it. You're seriously going to try to argue that he could go his whole life without ever working at it, not having the right kind of diet to make a body built for running, not have the specific work out routine needed to increase stamina and lower body/leg strength, and he'd be able to beat someone who trains their entire life specifically at running? No, that's not how this works. These people who make it to the Olympics in the first place do not get there from natural athletic ability. That shit only gets you so far. You have to literally condition your body to reach that point of peak physical ability, on top of having both the proper form, proper breathing, and proper technique that can make or break your run.

But you think a guy who wouldn't work out, wouldn't exercise, wouldn't watch what he eats, wouldn't do all the other little things like shave his legs or keep his knuckles unclenched to conserve energy would be able to beat someone who trained all of their life to be a runner because he's Usain Bolt.

Jesus ****ing christ. I think we actually have found someone worse than 3ball.


sure, but there are levels to it. you had to learn how to turn on a tv. how much skill is involved.

you want to get very literal because you're losing the argument, i get it.

You are now trying to equate turning on a TV to playing defense in Professional Basketball at the highest level like Scottie Pippen did.

You haven't been winning the argument at all. Your argument has no merit. You're trying to argue something that is factually incorrect. Every single NBA player in the world, or just people who played basketball in general, would tell you you're a moron. To even try to suggest that defense requires more athleticism than skill is just idiotic beyond comprehension.

[SaintzFury13]

found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTN7JZrBgbQ

not much skill being displayed

Literally the very first play demonstrated why your point holds no merit.

Scottie surveyed the floor and was completely aware of what was going on around him. When he saw where the ball went and what was about to happen, he knew what to do immediately and reacted appropriately.

How can someone be so stupid. It truly blows my mind.

[SaintzFury13]

oh i've seen him play.

No you haven't.


wide open dunks and layups

And this is proof of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1rd5SKQ3U

Stop being a moron.

[Overdrive]

oh i've seen him play. he really wasn't much better than Horace Grant.

You admitted that out of Drazen, Sabonis, Richmond and Mullins you've seen only three play. So at best you started watching after Jordan first retired and I guess you were pretty young back then.

[FKAri]

"wasn't elite at anything"

So Pippen wasn't an elite defender? I'd love to see anyone argue that :oldlol:

[nineiron]

And this right here is why you're an idiot.

Usain Bolt became one of the fastest runners in the world BECAUSE he worked so hard at it. You're seriously going to try to argue that he could go his whole life without ever working at it, not having the right kind of diet to make a body built for running, not have the specific work out routine needed to increase stamina and lower body/leg strength, and he'd be able to beat someone who trains their entire life specifically at running? No, that's not how this works. These people who make it to the Olympics in the first place do not get there from natural athletic ability. That shit only gets you so far. You have to literally condition your body to reach that point of peak physical ability, on top of having both the proper form, proper breathing, and proper technique that can make or break your run.

But you think a guy who wouldn't work out, wouldn't exercise, wouldn't watch what he eats, wouldn't do all the other little things like shave his legs or keep his knuckles unclenched to conserve energy would be able to beat someone who trained all of their life to be a runner because he's Usain Bolt.

Jesus ****ing christ. I think we actually have found someone worse than 3ball.



You are now trying to equate turning on a TV to playing defense in Professional Basketball at the highest level like Scottie Pippen did.

You haven't been winning the argument at all. Your argument has no merit. You're trying to argue something that is factually incorrect. Every single NBA player in the world, or just people who played basketball in general, would tell you you're a moron. To even try to suggest that defense requires more athleticism than skill is just idiotic beyond comprehension.

Learn to read.

I said Usain Bolt would beat the breaks off YOU even if he didn’t train 1 day in his life and you trained everyday.

He’s just naturally faster than you’ll ever be. Do you disagree?

[SaintzFury13]

Learn to read.

I said Usain Bolt would beat the breaks off YOU even if he didn’t train 1 day in his life and you trained everyday.

He’s just naturally faster than you’ll ever be. Do you disagree?

Yes, I absolutely disagree with you. And he probably would too. There is a lot more to speed than just being a natural at it. No one would ever think he was ever even a fast runner if he never trained a day in his life.

You'd know that if you ever played a sport in your life.

[nineiron]

Yes, I absolutely disagree with you. And he probably would too. There is a lot more to speed than just being a natural at it. No one would ever think he was ever even a fast runner if he never trained a day in his life.

You'd know that if you ever played a sport in your life.

so let me get this straight. you think that if Usain Bolt didn't train running, but you did that you would be able to beat him in a race?

LMFAO. you bran stans really are delusional. :oldlol:

[SaintzFury13]

so let me get this straight. you think that if Usain Bolt didn't train running, but you did that you would be able to beat him in a race?

LMFAO. you bran stans really are delusional. :oldlol:

I'm delusional for thinking that I, dedicating my ENTIRE LIFE to one thing, can beat a guy who never ONCE trained for this particular thing, doesn't have the body for it, didn't eat properly for it, and never cared for it?

I was mistaken. You are in fact dumber than 3ball. Even he wouldn't be stupid enough to use an argument like this.

[Overdrive]

"wasn't elite at anything"

So Pippen wasn't an elite defender? I'd love to see anyone argue that :oldlol:

This guy said defense doesn't count because it takes no skill.

[Overdrive]

so let me get this straight. you think that if Usain Bolt didn't train running, but you did that you would be able to beat him in a race?

LMFAO. you bran stans really are delusional. :oldlol:

Even if Bolt won it is a false analogy. Running is an instinct . Any healthy human being can run. Basketball defense isn't an instinct. You need to learn it.

[nineiron]

Even if Bolt won it is a false analogy. Running is an instinct . Any healthy human being can run. Basketball defense isn't an instinct. You need to learn it.

exactly my point, running doesn't require a lot of skill and is highly dependant on natural talent.

being able to get up and block a shot or stay in front of someone, or run to get into position all require athleticism that can't be taught.

[nineiron]

I'm delusional for thinking that I, dedicating my ENTIRE LIFE to one thing, can beat a guy who never ONCE trained for this particular thing, doesn't have the body for it, didn't eat properly for it, and never cared for it?

I was mistaken. You are in fact dumber than 3ball. Even he wouldn't be stupid enough to use an argument like this.

that's right. your unathletic ass could train your ENTIRE LIFE and wouldn't be able to beat a fast high school kid (who never trained) let alone someone like Usain Bolt.

you think anyone can just train hard and become a sprinting champion? you're dumber than most of the bran stans on here.

[Overdrive]

exactly my point, running doesn't require a lot of skill and is highly dependant on natural talent.

being able to get up and block a shot or stay in front of someone, or run to get into position all require athleticism that can't be taught.

Athleticism alone can't make you run into position, neither will dedication.

[outofstomach]

I’m convinced none of the dudes on here actually hoop lmao.
Westbrook has one of the GOAT motors, heart, effort, etc. He’s an average defender at best.
Kawhi has a terrible motor and has never been a guy associated with “heart”, and is one of the GOAT defenders in his prime.
Defense is a skill. You’re retarded.
i definitely acknowledged that positioning and timing is “skill” but you choose to shed tears instead :lol

the point is, is that being a good defender is easier than being a good offensive player

[outofstomach]

Defense is definitely a skill. Thats the reason why you see old dudes in the league with diminished athleticism still making a living at that side of the floor. The aforementioned positioning, timing, knowing when to take a charge or contest a shot, having quick hands and feet etc.

These are some things you cant just easily teach and believe me I tried hard with some younger teammates. Guys just need experience in certain situations to react properly. Effort is essential defensively but you will be running around like a headless chicken if you dont have the skill and fundamentals to do it.

positioning, timing, knowing when to contest would definitely fall under rudimentary basketball IQ

what it seems like to me in this thread is that their is a ton of MJ haters, bronsexuals (and closeted ones that like to pretend they’re objective “MJ” fans) who care to prop up pippen in order to push their agenda/narrative

pippen was a fantastic player, but let’s not act like good/great defense makes up for weak/average offense. ideally you want to be able to do both

MJ and pippen were honestly a really great fit for one another

[j3lademaster]

Do you guys not realize if Pippen wasn’t great it means the era MJ played in was dogshit and LeBron is almost certainly better? You guys are really bad at arguing.Exactly. If you're going to talk about how rugged and tough and difficult it was to score in the 90's, then you can't hold a 90's player's ppg to the same standard as a modern player. If the defensive climate of the league was that tough back then, Pippen's yearly 20 ppg has to be meaningful; especially considering the fact that he isn't a scorer first and foremost.

[8Ball]

If Pippen was the most overrated player in NBA history, there was nobody else to replace him in 1st team all-nba 3x in the 90s? :lol


That means the 90s were garbage with no competition.

[Axe]

Exactly. If you're going to talk about how rugged and tough and difficult it was to score in the 90's, then you can't hold a 90's player's ppg to the same standard as a modern player. If the defensive climate of the league was that tough back then, Pippen's yearly 20 ppg has to be meaningful; especially considering the fact that he isn't a scorer first and foremost.
I think they are way too retarded to grasp that.

[AirBonner]

Pippen had goat long game (Madonna confirmed)

[sdot_thadon]

oh i've seen him play. he really wasn't much better than Horace Grant.

You keep proving me correct with every single post. You were a young Kobe fan, keep it real. When Pippen was playing you might have saw him once he was off the Bulls but I don't buy anything you're saying in this thread. Why? Because nobody's this dumb on purpose.....

[SaintzFury13]

exactly my point, running doesn't require a lot of skill and is highly dependant on natural talent.

being able to get up and block a shot or stay in front of someone, or run to get into position all require athleticism that can't be taught.

Yeah, so I guess Larry Bird being one of the best defensive players at his position in the 80s was all due to athleticism, has nothing to do with skill.

I can’t even believe the conversation I’m witnessing right now. It feels like an acid trip.

[outofstomach]

Yeah, so I guess Larry Bird being one of the best defensive players at his position in the 80s was all due to athleticism, has nothing to do with skill.

I can’t even believe the conversation I’m witnessing right now. It feels like an acid trip.

you’ve never done acid

[bdonovan]

Scottie Pippen 1998 ECF Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEWMVAli8cQ



Scottie Pippen shuts down Mark Jackson - 1998 ECF Game 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImRvytke08c


Scottie Pippen 21 pts 5 asts 3 blks vs Pacers 1998 PO G2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEOXj4GoaOg



Scottie Pippen locks down Glen Rice - 1998 ECSF Game 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikqz29GkYsQ





Scottie Pippen shuts down Glen Rice - 1998 ECSF Game 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yh4qNNJIBQ


Scottie Pippen draws 4 charges - 1998 Finals Game 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nErCkc2XNjk


Very few superstars could dominate a game or a series while struggling so badly as a scorer as Pippen could.


His 4 point output in game one of the 1998 ECF is one of my favourite Pippen games and one of my favourite Bulls games to watch.


The OP seems unable to contend with any of this. Just reducing things into simplistic putdowns.

[FKAri]

This guy said defense doesn't count because it takes no skill.

He has also said endurance, hand eye coordination, and reflexes have nothing to do with natural ability. Maybe one of these days OP will say something that I can agree with but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Reggie43]

positioning, timing, knowing when to contest would definitely fall under rudimentary basketball IQ

what it seems like to me in this thread is that their is a ton of MJ haters, bronsexuals (and closeted ones that like to pretend they’re objective “MJ” fans) who care to prop up pippen in order to push their agenda/narrative

pippen was a fantastic player, but let’s not act like good/great defense makes up for weak/average offense. ideally you want to be able to do both

MJ and pippen were honestly a really great fit for one another

Im just here for the defense. I really dont care about the Jordan/Lebron Stan narratives about Pippen lol.

If defensive skills are so basic everyone would do a better job at it but it takes years of experience and practice just to improve and be a decent defender.

Some things are just really easier said than done and in my experience, guys who think defense is easy dont really know how to play it properly and are actually bad at it.