ISH Project: Top 50 All-Time List - Shot-Clock Era

[dankok8]

Despite the generally low quality of discussion on this board thanks to rampant trolling we do have a lot of really knowledgeable posters about both the current NBA and its history. I was thinking we could pool our collective knowledge of the game to create a really good top 50 list for this forum. I think we want to get anywhere from 20-30 participants for this project. More wouldn't hurt but is probably unrealistic. I don't mind running the project and making threads and introductory posts as well as tracking the votes and linking the threads. I'll have a spreadsheet that is shared publicly that has links to all the threads, participants, voting summaries etc.

The plan is that before we even start assembling the list, we will start another thread to pool all the serious candidates of maybe 60 or so players and then discuss and vote in succession starting from #1 to #50. We can use this thread to discuss the criteria considerations as well as the scope of the project. For instance I think making a top 50 list for the shot-clock era is the best because basketball before that wasn't really basketball as we know it. It does exclude Mikan though. Maybe we can keep it to shot-clock era but include him in the pool? My other thought is to do the the list as NBA + ABA. Both are professional leagues that merged into the NBA.

RealGM has a decent list but a lot of participants there are too obsessed with stats and analytics especially stuff like +/- and BPM. Some of their rankings just aren't justifiable to me and I feel warranted saying that having watched the game for 25 years and studying its history beforehand as well.

Who wants to participate?

If you're in, also answer the following two questions:

1) Do you agree with doing a shot-clock era list but including Mikan?

2) Should it be an NBA plus ABA list or strictly an NBA list?

Feel free to voice any other thoughts as well. We should collectively agree on the parameters of the list before we start.

[SouBeachTalents]

Imo, any known trolls with obvious agendas should be disallowed from participating. As for your questions

1. I think we should go with just shot clock era players

2. We should include players who played in the ABA, but obv put more emphasis on their NBA accomplishments

[SaintzFury13]

Despite the generally low quality of discussion on this board thanks to rampant trolling we do have a lot of really knowledgeable posters about both the current NBA and its history. I was thinking we could pool our collective knowledge of the game to create a really good top 50 list for this forum. I think we want to get anywhere from 20-30 participants for this project. More wouldn't hurt but is probably unrealistic. I don't mind running the project and making threads and introductory posts as well as tracking the votes and linking the threads. I'll have a spreadsheet that is shared publicly that has links to all the threads, participants, voting summaries etc.

The plan is that before we even start assembling the list, we will start another thread to pool all the serious candidates of maybe 60 or so players and then discuss and vote in succession starting from #1 to #50. We can use this thread to discuss the criteria considerations as well as the scope of the project. For instance I think making a top 50 list for the shot-clock era is the best because basketball before that wasn't really basketball as we know it. It does exclude Mikan though. Maybe we can keep it to shot-clock era but include him in the pool? My other thought is to do the the list as NBA + ABA. Both are professional leagues that merged into the NBA.

RealGM has a decent list but a lot of participants there are too obsessed with stats and analytics especially stuff like +/- and BPM. Some of their rankings just aren't justifiable to me and I feel warranted saying that having watched the game for 25 years and studying its history beforehand as well.

Who wants to participate?

If you're in, also answer the following two questions:

1) Do you agree with doing a shot-clock era list but including Mikan?

2) Should it be an NBA plus ABA list or strictly an NBA list?

Feel free to voice any other thoughts as well. We should collectively agree on the parameters of the list before we start.

I don't really think it would matter if we did strictly shot-clock era. I still wouldn't want Mikan on the list.

[Overdrive]

Despite the generally low quality of discussion on this board thanks to rampant trolling we do have a lot of really knowledgeable posters about both the current NBA and its history. I was thinking we could pool our collective knowledge of the game to create a really good top 50 list for this forum. I think we want to get anywhere from 20-30 participants for this project. More wouldn't hurt but is probably unrealistic. I don't mind running the project and making threads and introductory posts as well as tracking the votes and linking the threads. I'll have a spreadsheet that is shared publicly that has links to all the threads, participants, voting summaries etc.

The plan is that before we even start assembling the list, we will start another thread to pool all the serious candidates of maybe 60 or so players and then discuss and vote in succession starting from #1 to #50. We can use this thread to discuss the criteria considerations as well as the scope of the project. For instance I think making a top 50 list for the shot-clock era is the best because basketball before that wasn't really basketball as we know it. It does exclude Mikan though. Maybe we can keep it to shot-clock era but include him in the pool? My other thought is to do the the list as NBA + ABA. Both are professional leagues that merged into the NBA.

RealGM has a decent list but a lot of participants there are too obsessed with stats and analytics especially stuff like +/- and BPM. Some of their rankings just aren't justifiable to me and I feel warranted saying that having watched the game for 25 years and studying its history beforehand as well.

Who wants to participate?

If you're in, also answer the following two questions:

1) Do you agree with doing a shot-clock era list but including Mikan?

2) Should it be an NBA plus ABA list or strictly an NBA list?

Feel free to voice any other thoughts as well. We should collectively agree on the parameters of the list before we start.

Mikan is the only reason to even consider pre shotclock, because anybody else is some obscure name anyway.
So it makes no difference only you expect some 90 yos to show up in the thread.

[dankok8]

Imo, any known trolls with obvious agendas should be disallowed from participating. As for your questions

1. I think we should go with just shot clock era players

2. We should include players who played in the ABA, but obv put more emphasis on their NBA accomplishments

Agree regarding trolls. Let's see how many trolls sign up and then deal with it on a case-by-case basis. I think the majority should have the right to oust any individual from the project who doesn't act in good faith. We should try our best not to be despots but it might be necessary. I will say that some trolls can be surprisingly insightful in discussions not involving their favorite players.

[L.Kizzle]

Mikan is the only reason to even consider pre shotclock, because anybody else is some obscure name anyway.
So it makes no difference only you expect some 90 yos to show up in the thread.
Right. Even if the likes of Cousy, Arizona or Schayes make the list, they played a majority of their career in the later half of the 50s and early 60s.

[L.Kizzle]

I'm down.
Will their be a pool of players or just a free for all?

[dankok8]

I'm down.
Will their be a pool of players or just a free for all?

I will make a new thread where we will create a pool of players. We could even create tiers of some sort to help us narrow down the options when it comes to voting.

[Overdrive]

How will the voting system work? Place on the list gets called and most votes decide the winner?

From one down? I think this has been done over and over. On an more serious board I'd love a format where we'd have to vote on the top 50 player first. On ISH Jordan and Lebron would be 49 and 50 for sure.

[SATAN]

How does this work when so many posters have alts?

[And1AllDay]

Despite the generally low quality of discussion on this board thanks to rampant trolling we do have a lot of really knowledgeable posters about both the current NBA and its history. I was thinking we could pool our collective knowledge of the game to create a really good top 50 list for this forum. I think we want to get anywhere from 20-30 participants for this project. More wouldn't hurt but is probably unrealistic. I don't mind running the project and making threads and introductory posts as well as tracking the votes and linking the threads. I'll have a spreadsheet that is shared publicly that has links to all the threads, participants, voting summaries etc.

The plan is that before we even start assembling the list, we will start another thread to pool all the serious candidates of maybe 60 or so players and then discuss and vote in succession starting from #1 to #50. We can use this thread to discuss the criteria considerations as well as the scope of the project. For instance I think making a top 50 list for the shot-clock era is the best because basketball before that wasn't really basketball as we know it. It does exclude Mikan though. Maybe we can keep it to shot-clock era but include him in the pool? My other thought is to do the the list as NBA + ABA. Both are professional leagues that merged into the NBA.

RealGM has a decent list but a lot of participants there are too obsessed with stats and analytics especially stuff like +/- and BPM. Some of their rankings just aren't justifiable to me and I feel warranted saying that having watched the game for 25 years and studying its history beforehand as well.

Who wants to participate?

If you're in, also answer the following two questions:

1) Do you agree with doing a shot-clock era list but including Mikan?

2) Should it be an NBA plus ABA list or strictly an NBA list?

Feel free to voice any other thoughts as well. We should collectively agree on the parameters of the list before we start.

1) yes

2) nba list

[iamgine]

All time greatest or all time best player?

[dankok8]

How will the voting system work? Place on the list gets called and most votes decide the winner?

From one down? I think this has been done over and over. On an more serious board I'd love a format where we'd have to vote on the top 50 player first. On ISH Jordan and Lebron would be 49 and 50 for sure.

Yea we vote for each place. I think starting from the bottom is very difficult. It makes sense to start from #1 and work our way down.


How does this work when so many posters have alts?

It doesn't. Troll posters don't get to participate. Pretty much everyone knows who they are.


All time greatest or all time best player?

All-time greatest. We rank them on the all-time list so it's a balance between peak level and longevity.

[Full Court]

Let Mikan be considered for vote. I personally wouldn't put him top 50, but let's have the discussion.

[sdot_thadon]

Yeah sounds good, if we're attempting in good faith I say Mikan has to be considered and ABA accomplishments as well, and not as a footnote but as actual career work.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

These lists are usually embarrassments.

Playoff chokers like Wilt who spent their championship days as 4th option scorers get propped up to top ten while Kawhi takes a backseat.

Larry Bird has the same amount of finals MVPS as Kawhi Leonard and 5x worse defense

Jerry West who has never been finals MVP on a winning team

[sdot_thadon]

These lists are usually embarrassments.

Playoff chokers like Wilt who spent their championship days as 4th option scorers get propped up to top ten while Kawhi takes a backseat.

Larry Bird has the same amount of finals MVPS as Kawhi Leonard and 5x worse defense

Jerry West who has never been finals MVP on a winning team

Because Kawhi doesn't belong anywhere near a top 10 yet.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Because Kawhi doesn't belong anywhere near a top 10 yet.

you're full of shit. He has 2 finals MVPS and he has led 7 different reg season teams in VORP that were top 3 SRS. Plus his 2 defensive player of the year awards. That's plenty for top 10.

[sdot_thadon]

you're full of shit. He has 2 finals MVPS and he has led 7 different reg season teams in VORP that were top 3 SRS. Plus his 2 defensive player of the year awards. That's plenty for top 10.

Im not discounting any of that, he's a hell of a player. So just imagine how much more the top 10 or so have done that we can't justify him being amongst them.

[dankok8]

Head over to the player pool thread:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496998-Top-50-All-Time-List-Shot-Clock-Era-Player-Pool-Thread

[dankok8]

In terms of criteria, I think this point is obvious and most people will agree but I want to state it anyways. The list should include active players but we are judging all active players as if they are retired and will not play another game in the NBA. We shouldn't vote for active players based on career projections like "Assuming Giannis stays healthy and plays 10 more years he will have 25k points, 12 All-NBA teams etc. so he's top 20." That projection is reasonable but we are ranking a player like Giannis (and all active players...) based on his current resume.