View Full Version : Are there any kobe fans who aren't mj fans also?
Bronbron23
08-20-2021, 02:20 PM
Is it even possible? He pretty much coppied mj's whole vibe. From his game to the way he talked and carried himself.
And if there is what's your reasoning?
The really crazy ones don’t like MJ but they just hate LeBron more so you don’t hear about it.
Mauzah
08-20-2021, 02:31 PM
Fans of both but when Kobe first entered the league he was enemy until about 2010.
FatrickChewing
08-20-2021, 02:33 PM
Fans of both but when Kobe first entered the league he was enemy until about 2010.
I think you are a homosexual.
tontoz
08-20-2021, 02:34 PM
Is it even possible? He pretty much coppied mj's whole vibe. From his game to the way he talked and carried himself.
And if there is what's your reasoning?
You should have been here 10-15 years ago. The Kobe/MJ wars were definitely a thing.
There were Kobe fans saying that Kobe was better and serious about it, not trolling.
You should have been here 10-15 years ago. The Kobe/MJ wars were definitely a thing.
There were Kobe fans saying that Kobe was better and serious about it, not trolling.
I remember. Yao Ming’s foot and Alphawolf24
Rysio
08-20-2021, 02:39 PM
Most kobe fans didn't watch Jordan(only on highlights) so hard to be a fan of someone you dint watch live.
Most kobe fans didn't watch Jordan(only on highlights) so hard to be a fan of someone you dint watch live.
Jordan was in the league for 4 of Kobe’s seasons. Kobe was already a superstar in two of those seasons
Rysio
08-20-2021, 02:45 PM
Jordan was in the league for 4 of Kobe’s seasons. Kobe was already a superstar in two of those seasons
Still probably 90% or more kobe stans never watched prime Jordan play.
Still probably 90% or more kobe stans never watched prime Jordan play.
Prime Jordan yeah true.
tontoz
08-20-2021, 02:55 PM
Two big differences.
1) Jordan was more athletic. Not saying Kobe wasn't athletic but MJ was on a different level. At times young MJ would get in the air first and then decide what he wanted to do.
2) Jordan had better shot selection. Kobe took more long, heavily contested jumpers than anyone i've ever seen. He wasn't a good enough shooter to be taking those shots. MJ typically had more separation when he took a jumper. Plus he could jump higher so sometimes he could just wait until the defender started to come down, then shoot.
Mauzah
08-20-2021, 02:55 PM
I think you are a homosexual.
Yeah, well.. say hello to your dad for me
RogueBorg
08-20-2021, 03:40 PM
Yeah, well.. say hello to your dad for me
LOL, that's a new one.
Mauzah
08-20-2021, 03:45 PM
LOL, that's a new one.
You're right Borg.
Say hello to your gender binary parent for me.
Better?
Kobe fam enjoys basketball greatness. It's simple. We don't have to lie and act like clowns.
MrFonzworth
08-20-2021, 03:58 PM
Yeah, well.. say hello to your dad for me
:roll:
j3lademaster
08-20-2021, 04:04 PM
What about being a fan of MJ, Kobe and Lebron?
tontoz
08-20-2021, 04:25 PM
What about being a fan of MJ, Kobe and Lebron?
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/samuel_L_Jackson.gif
And1AllDay
08-20-2021, 04:26 PM
What about being a fan of MJ, Kobe and Lebron?
impossibru
Bronbron23
08-20-2021, 04:48 PM
You should have been here 10-15 years ago. The Kobe/MJ wars were definitely a thing.
There were Kobe fans saying that Kobe was better and serious about it, not trolling.
I'd disagree with kobe being better but that's fair if someone liked mj but just liked kobe better. It would just be weird to me if there were guys out there that liked kobe but not mj. I can understand the reverse if someone liked mj but not kobe because mj came first and kobe copied his shit.
Bronbron23
08-20-2021, 04:53 PM
What about being a fan of MJ, Kobe and Lebron?
I'm a fan of all three although i like mj more than bron and kobe. I argue with bron stans a bit and mj stans once in awhile because they can troll and say dumb shit but I'm i like both players. 8 don't argue with kobe stans much because they seem pretty quiet. Maybe they just conceded that mj and bron sre better so they don't troll as much. Sounds like it wasn't always that way on here though
j3lademaster
08-20-2021, 05:03 PM
I'm a fan of all three although i like mj more than bron and kobe. I argue with bron stans a bit and mj stans once in awhile because they can troll and say dumb shit but I'm i like both players. 8 don't argue with kobe stans much because they seem pretty quiet. Maybe they just conceded that mj and bron sre better so they don't troll as much. Sounds like it wasn't always that way on here thoughI'm a Bulls fan so I have to go with MJ. I appreciate Kobe's game though, I don't feel he's a cheap carbon copy of Jordan like the lazy narratives make him out to be. He has a similar size and build, so of course you're going to take a bit of what the superstar who came before you did. But Kobe modified it and made it his own. There were things Jordan can do that Kobe simply couldn't due to physical limitations, but Kobe has one of the sweetest 8 foot floaters ever... which he pulled off with either hand. No one else does that.
Bronbron23
08-20-2021, 05:13 PM
I'm a Bulls fan so I have to go with MJ. I appreciate Kobe's game though, I don't feel he's a cheap carbon copy of Jordan like the lazy narratives make him out to be. He has a similar size and build, so of course you're going to take a bit of what the superstar who came before you did. But Kobe modified it and made it his own. There were things Jordan can do that Kobe simply couldn't due to physical limitations, but Kobe has one of the sweetest 8 foot floaters ever... which he pulled off with either hand. No one else does that. yeah hard to hate on kobe. He was smooth with it and he had that killer mentality. I go with mj also. Skill wise they're very similar but mj's athleticism and hands were what set him apart imo. It's not like kobe wasn't athletic also, mj was just on another level.
Two big differences.
1) Jordan was more athletic. Not saying Kobe wasn't athletic but MJ was on a different level. At times young MJ would get in the air first and then decide what he wanted to do.
2) Jordan had better shot selection. Kobe took more long, heavily contested jumpers than anyone i've ever seen. He wasn't a good enough shooter to be taking those shots. MJ typically had more separation when he took a jumper. Plus he could jump higher so sometimes he could just wait until the defender started to come down, then shoot.
Good points. Jordan was also willing to listen to anything coaches command him unlike kobe, who had a hard time following orders when he was a lot younger and as a result, the zen master phil jackson would end up having boiling blood at times. That reminds me, i really must start reading his book the last season to know more about this lol. It also received backlash only due to kobe's reputation that time.
Smoke117
08-20-2021, 07:16 PM
The really crazy ones don’t like MJ but they just hate LeBron more so you don’t hear about it.
Pretty much this. Once LeBron surpassed Kobe there was really no point in going after MJ anymore.
kabacho
08-20-2021, 07:30 PM
To me it was Penny Hardaway. until Kobe showed up. after that it was over.
TheMan
08-20-2021, 07:59 PM
I remember. Yao Ming’s foot and Alphawolf24
I sincerly believe Alphawolf24 was trolling most of the time, he was a funny dude though, I'll give him that.
Chick Stern
08-20-2021, 09:55 PM
Jordan couldn’t shoot the 3
his success also came during the weakest NBA decade
and he pushed
Bronbron23
08-20-2021, 10:22 PM
Jordan couldn’t shoot the 3
his success also came during the weakest NBA decade
and he pushed
But mj shot the 3 ball as good as kobe did and the effects of the 90's expansion would of had more of an effect on kobe's era.
But mj shot the 3 ball as good as kobe did and the effects of the 90's expansion would of had more of an effect on kobe's era.
He did not shoot the 3 as well as Kobe. Volume matters.
Bronbron23
08-20-2021, 10:32 PM
He did not shoot the 3 as well as Kobe. Volume matters.
Volume can matter but not in this case. In the playoffs from the regular line where mj shot more threes he actually was more efficient. This is probably because in playoffs where mj shot low threes they were often last second forced shots. Plus Mj is the goat volume shooter. It dosn't matter how much he shoots his efficiency dosn't get negatively impacted.
Also mj and everyone else during his time or before his time barely shot the 3. Teams were only shooting 6 a game. In kobe's era they shot 3 to 5 times more than this. He's not better because of this. It's just different eras
Chick Stern
08-20-2021, 10:33 PM
But mj shot the 3 ball as good as kobe did and the effects of the 90's expansion would of had more of an effect on kobe's era.
Did not shoot long at all, and the league expanded by a THIRD in the 90s.
Kobe’s era was signified by a great influx of international players.
Bronbron23
08-20-2021, 10:47 PM
Did not shoot long at all, and the league expanded by a THIRD in the 90s.
Kobe’s era was signified by a great influx of international players.
They expanded yes but that expansion effected kobe's era and every era after just as much. The expansion era is tgw weirdest argument ever unless your a proponent of before mj's time.
The international players in kobe's era weren't all that greater than in mj's era. Hakeem was way greater than any international playee kobe faced. There were other solid players also like mutumbo, draz, divac, kukoc detlef and sabonis. I'm probably missing a couple also
Chick Stern
08-21-2021, 12:27 AM
They expanded yes but that expansion effected kobe's era and every era after just as much. The expansion era is tgw weirdest argument ever unless your a proponent of before mj's time.
The international players in kobe's era weren't all that greater than in mj's era. Hakeem was way greater than any international playee kobe faced. There were other solid players also like mutumbo, draz, divac, kukoc detlef and sabonis. I'm probably missing a couple also
People hate the expansion argument because it is undeniable. When a third of the teams have been added, it spreads out the top tier talent and brings in an influx of players who would not have been in the league before. To act like that did not affect things is not realistic.
As far as International influence, while it started in the 90s, the volume of players and level of talent came into it own after the 90s.
Volume can matter but not in this case. In the playoffs from the regular line where mj shot more threes he actually was more efficient. This is probably because in playoffs where mj shot low threes they were often last second forced shots. Plus Mj is the goat volume shooter. It dosn't matter how much he shoots his efficiency dosn't get negatively impacted.
Also mj and everyone else during his time or before his time barely shot the 3. Teams were only shooting 6 a game. In kobe's era they shot 3 to 5 times more than this. He's not better because of this. It's just different eras
Why do you always use this retarded argument? Is MJ supposed to get credit for shooting like shit with a shortened line? :roll: If he couldn’t hit from there he wasnt gonna start splashing from farther out lmao.
HoopsNY
08-22-2021, 12:26 PM
You should have been here 10-15 years ago. The Kobe/MJ wars were definitely a thing.
There were Kobe fans saying that Kobe was better and serious about it, not trolling.
I remember this being a thing in 2000. Yes, 2000. Kobe got overrated consistently then and there were definitely echoes of it again in 2010 after his 5th title.
Bronbron23
08-22-2021, 12:39 PM
People hate the expansion argument because it is undeniable. When a third of the teams have been added, it spreads out the top tier talent and brings in an influx of players who would not have been in the league before. To act like that did not affect things is not realistic.
As far as International influence, while it started in the 90s, the volume of players and level of talent came into it own after the 90s.
Right but that same reasoning applies to teams in the future also so bron and kobe were benefits of this also. The only people who can use this argument is proponents of before the expansion.
Bronbron23
08-22-2021, 12:44 PM
Why do you always use this retarded argument? Is MJ supposed to get credit for shooting like shit with a shortened line? :roll: If he couldn’t hit from there he wasnt gonna start splashing from farther out lmao.
Shooting like shit? Are retarded he shot 39% from the short line:facepalm
HoopsNY
08-22-2021, 04:40 PM
People hate the expansion argument because it is undeniable. When a third of the teams have been added, it spreads out the top tier talent and brings in an influx of players who would not have been in the league before. To act like that did not affect things is not realistic.
As far as International influence, while it started in the 90s, the volume of players and level of talent came into it own after the 90s.
It is absolutely deniable. The problem is, the expansion argument is applied only against MJ.
For one, the league added two teams after Chicago had already won three titles, and 1 team after he retired the third time in 2003.
97 Bulls did a thread about this (weak) argument by looking at the entire league as a whole and analyzing how expansion didn't help the ceiling of the league's best teams on a consistent basis.
If the expansion argument holds true, then the best teams would have consistently won 60+ games after expansion. That didn't happen.
In addition, expansion doesn't just water down the talent per team, it also waters down talent for teams to access. This access includes (not excludes), Chicago.
People forget that if there is no expansion, then guys like Rice, Reeves, Abdur-Rahim, Stoudamire, Shaq, Penny, Anderson, Scott, Zo, LJ, Seikaly, KG, Marbury, etc all become fair game for other teams via the draft, trades, and as well as free agency. Expansion doesn't say, "Chicago, you're excluded from such opportunities."
As for your second point, then the premise still remains the same. Without expansion, Chicago has access to great players, just as everyone else does. This maintains their ability to win titles, or at the very least, be an elite-contending team.
Similarly, those who use the expansion argument mention that more talented teams means MJ faces tougher competition, thus reducing his output. The problem with this argument is that we already saw him face "tougher" competition. Just look at his 1987 and 1988 production.
Jordan's '88 seasons is one of the greatest of all-time. So if he's DPOY, All-NBA 1st Team, All-Defensive 1st Team, and MVP, with rookie Grant and Pippen, then there is nothing to suggest that his numbers decline. Add the opportunity to draft better, sign free agents, or make trades - then similarly - there is nothing to indicate that they wouldn't win championships.
They expanded yes but that expansion effected kobe's era and every era after just as much. The expansion era is tgw weirdest argument ever unless your a proponent of before mj's time.
See the above.
The international players in kobe's era weren't all that greater than in mj's era. Hakeem was way greater than any international playee kobe faced. There were other solid players also like mutumbo, draz, divac, kukoc detlef and sabonis. I'm probably missing a couple also
Hakeem came out of college from the U.S., but the argument is still a bad one. Go through each draft class in the 2000s and they are filled with international players - 90% of them didn't pan out.
The international argument is similar to the expansion argument. It comes from the same place. And just like all other NBA teams having the ability to scout and draft Euro players, so would Chicago.
Take a look at the following international players and where they fell in the draft list:
Manu Ginobili: 2nd round/57th pick
Tony Parker : 1st round/ 28th pick
Mehmet Okur: 2nd round/38th pick
Leandro Barbosa: 1st round/28th pick
Rudy Gobert: 1st round/27th pick
Bogdan Bogdonavic: 1st round/27th pick
Nikola Jokic: 2nd round/41st pick
Pascal Siakam: 1st round/27th pick
Ivica Zubac: 2nd round/31st pick
And I'm leaving out a bunch of guys that went 15-20th on the list. Chicago likely doesn't land top picks because they wouldn't have the pieces to trade for them, but 15-20 is possible.
What makes people think that if you increase the talent pool via European players, that suddenly Krauss and the Chicago front office becomes inept at scouting/drafting? Are those same people forgetting that Chicago drafted Kukoc in the second round?
And all of this doesn't even take into account that American guys like David Lee, Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton, Malcolm Brogdon, etc went really late in the draft. Some of them - like Green, Thomas, Middleton, and Brogdon - were drafted in the second round.
Guys like Butler and Lee were taken with the 30th pick.
Why is it always that arguments regarding expansion and international players are only weaponized against Chicago? I can take a single guess as to why. It is because expansion and international players aren't meant to be used against Chicago; they're meant to be used against MJ, only.
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