Ball-domination doesn't wear down defenses, so opponent has more capacity for offense

[3ba11]

See the 09' ECF, 11' Finals, 14' Finals or 17' Finals to see teams get hot against ball-domination

Ball-movement is much more effective at wearing down a defense and winning the battle of attrition.. The best defense is a good offense - a tenet of all competition

[SouBeachTalents]

Yep, LeBron was hella ball dominant in the 2011 Finals :oldlol:

[3ba11]

Yep, LeBron was hella ball dominant in the 2011 Finals :oldlol:


The Heat used a ball-dominant approach - your-turn-my-turn with Wade/Lebron, aka bad fit...

bad fit = skill deficit (no off-ball, no elite jumpshooting skill)

[AirBonner]

The heat were only successful with Bron being ball dominant. Won two chips in fact

[1987_Lakers]

Love how 3ball makes it seem like LeBron's style of play never won him rings, not only did he win rings, but two of them (Spurs & Warriors) were teams that had all-time great ball-movement.

[RRR3]

LeBron>>>>>Kobe

[Ne 1]

Also, see '89 and '90 ECF for another great display of teams getting hot against ball dominance....

[Full Court]

What OP says it true. Ball domination doesn't stress a defense nearly as much as good ball movement.

Obviously, ball dominators have won championships too. That doesn't nullify what 3ball says. Turns out there is more than just one factor leading to winning a game of basketball.

[sdot_thadon]

Also, see '89 and '90 ECF for another great display of teams getting hot against ball dominance....

Pow

[ELITEpower23]

Also, see '89 and '90 ECF for another great display of teams getting hot against ball dominance....

Boom

[coastalmarker99]

The audacity to still…in 2021…act like “Bron Ball” (whatever that is) is some kind of selfish game approach while worshipping Jordan and Kobe who are literally known for dominating every possession of a game.

If Lebron ever took 45 shots in a game to get 63 or 81 points you would have a meltdown and call him selfish

You 3ball really need a new narrative when it comes to hating on Lebron.

[SaintzFury13]

The audacity to still…in 2021…act like “Bron Ball” (whatever that is) is some kind of selfish game approach while worshipping Jordan and Kobe who are literally known for dominating every possession of a game.

If Lebron ever took 45 shots in a game to get 63 or 81 points you would have a meltdown and call him selfish

You 3ball really need a new narrative when it comes to hating on Lebron.

Bron ball actually is a very real thing. And it does come with a price. People who play alongside James will typically have to play a secondary role in order for LeBrons talents to be used to maximum effect. That wouldn’t be as big of a deal if he were a better off the ball player, but the only time I saw him make a legitimate effort to be decent in that regard was later in his first run with the Cavs. Mo Williams was the first teammate he had who could actually run the offense AND score effectively. LeBron wanted to defer and not be the only one to have to do everything.

After he left Cleveland, he pretty much gave up on that mindset and in his second year in Miami, LeBron ball basically became a permanent thing on his teams (which is also when he started winning championships so…)

[Mask the Embiid]

"Anderson steals the ball" - announcer

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The heat were only successful with Bron being ball dominant. Won two chips in fact

Wade was still superstar level in 2012.

2013 he wasn't quite there but his usage was still at 28.5% and he had a higher usage then Lebron in game 7 finals.

[ShawkFactory]

So you’ve said

[ELITEpower23]

When done correctly, ball-domination wears down more defenses using any different combination of players and thus not reliant upon precise #2 options such as Jordan and Pippen.

https://i.postimg.cc/SR7YmnYk/4x-FMVP-Winner.png

Jordan needed Pippen to dominate.

LeBron just needed the ball.

[j3lademaster]

Love how 3ball makes it seem like LeBron's style of play never won him rings, not only did he win rings, but two of them (Spurs & Warriors) were teams that had all-time great ball-movement.Lebron's not even that ball dominant. If we use 2016 as a reference he's 29th in time of possession.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

In 2014 he was 32nd

He was 6th in 2020 while taking on full time pg duties.

He's not an offball god like Durant, but he's hardly the face of ball dominance in the NBA.

[FKAri]

I agree. This is why Lebron's the greatest in the history of any and all worthy endeavors while MJ has a diminutive *****. Ipso facto.

No but seriously OP's right. Though this argument in no way helps his thesis.

[hateraid]

OP saying low key the GS Warriors would have crushed any Jordan led team

Good observation OP

[3ba11]

Lebron's not even that ball dominant. If we use 2016 as a reference he's 29th in time of possession.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

In 2014 he was 32nd

He was 6th in 2020 while taking on full time pg duties.

He's not an offball god like Durant, but he's hardly the face of ball dominance in the NBA.


But all the leaders for time of possession are point guards that bring the ball up.

So for the vast majority of Lebron's career, he started at forward but then became a 2nd player on the floor with a point guard time of possession - these 2-PG lineups give teammates less hold-time and assists than they get in traditional 1-PG lineups, which results in low TEAM assists and a weak ball-movement brand that gets massively out-assisted in the Finals.

Ultimately, when teams have time to adjust (in the playoffs), the best teams don't get tired defending ball-domination and therefore have more capacity to go off than their ball-dominant opponents (numerous examples cited previously).

[No Sir]

So basically LeBron chose to play a brand of ball that’s not designed to win, but won anyway…While MJ and Kobe took the easy way out

Interesting…

[3ba11]

So basically LeBron chose to play a brand of ball that’s not designed to win, but won anyway…While MJ and Kobe took the easy way out

Interesting…


Any simpleton ball-dominator can that forms super-teams in Dwight Howard's conference can go 4/10 (mostly lose) - Lebron simply lacks the skill to produce in the most-winning format and best brand of ball (ball movement)

[sdot_thadon]

So basically LeBron chose to play a brand of ball that’s not designed to win, but won anyway…While MJ and Kobe took the easy way out

Interesting…

Eureka! 3balls done it again, with countless hours of research and posting he's once again proved Lebron's greatness to the masses. You work for clutch bro?

[HoopsNY]

Is it the most effective way of maximizing talent and winning championships? No. But has it yielded some proven results? It has. Consider what 1987_Lakers said in that his style still cemented two championships against two great ball movement teams (the '13 Spurs and the '16 Warriors).

[RRR3]

Is it the most effective way of maximizing talent and winning championships? No. But has it yielded some proven results? It has. Consider what 1987_Lakers said in that his style still cemented two championships against two great ball movement teams (the '13 Spurs and the '16 Warriors).
Miami didn’t play “Bron ball”.

[Axe]

Is it the most effective way of maximizing talent and winning championships? No. But has it yielded some proven results? It has. Consider what 1987_Lakers said in that his style still cemented two championships against two great ball movement teams (the '13 Spurs and the '16 Warriors).
The warriors were even up 3-1 at that point but lost their steam from there on, which was totally embarrassing for a 70+ win team.

[8Ball]

Any simpleton ball-dominator can that forms super-teams in Dwight Howard's conference can go 4/10 (mostly lose) - Lebron simply lacks the skill to produce in the most-winning format and best brand of ball (ball movement)

Wrong.

Here are your true thoughts about this:

https://i.ibb.co/XCD6m9n/3-Ball-Le-Bron-is-the-GOAT.png

[8Ball]

Miami didn’t play “Bron ball”.

They played Bron ball in 2012 and 2013. Wade gave up the reigns before 2012 season.

[ELITEpower23]

Another troll thread. You don't believe any of that.

Your true thoughts:

https://i.ibb.co/XCD6m9n/3-Ball-Le-Bron-is-the-GOAT.png

[3ba11]

Another troll thread. You don't believe any of that.

Your true thoughts:

https://i.ibb.co/XCD6m9n/3-Ball-Le-Bron-is-the-GOAT.png


I didn't say any of that, and even if I did, it doesn't say anything - what in those posts is so bad? It doesn't say Lebron is goat and says more needs to be seen and done, which didn't ultimately happen

You guys are just retards with poor reading comprehension, so you have to fake victory and follow a fake... carry on

[Axe]

I didn't say any of that, and even if I did, it doesn't say anything - what in those posts is so bad? It doesn't say Lebron is goat and says more needs to be seen and done, which didn't ultimately happen

You guys are just retards with poor reading comprehension, so you have to fake victory and follow a fake... carry on
How's your oubre > klay prediction going on? ;)

[3ba11]

So you’ve said


It's what great coaches say:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2T4bJh165g&t=01m50s

[1987_Lakers]

Risky move by 3ball. He knows he can't make the same repeating threads without getting banned so he bumps an old thread instead.

How will the mods react?

Btw, I thought you found a new site for you to talk basketball? What happened? Banned already? :lol

[And1AllDay]

Also, see '89 and '90 ECF for another great display of teams getting hot against ball dominance....

also see 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 94, 00, 01 :oldlol:

[3ba11]

also see 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 94, 00, 01 :oldlol:


We know that Jordan wasn't ball-dominant because he's considered the goat shooting guard or OFF-guard, so he had expert jumpshooting skill and came off screens a lot - this is reflected in his high assisted rate, aka teammates assisted him on 50-60% of his field goals.. A cursory eye test or simple recall/intuition will also confirm this.

So MJ had a higher assisted rate that helps a team's assist capacity, while Lebron kills a team's assist capacity with a low assisted rate (not an assist target) due to his reliance on ball-domination and lack of expert jumpshooting skill.. Lebron's assisted rate has been 30% for most of his career (point guard level) until the last couple season where he's at 45% - all of this is far below the typical FORWARD, aka abnormal ball-dominance.

Not surprisingly, expert jumpshooters seem to have the dynasties and the highest team ceilings/Finals records, aka Curry, MJ, Kobe, Bird, Dirk, Kawhi.. They allow coaches maximum strategic capacity (coaches don't have to put the ball in their hands but still can at any time), while also having the best chemistry/fits with teammates (GM's dream).

[3ba11]

Another 3ball theory confirmed years later as the mainstream media finally figures it out:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QngtYC-g0zQ&pp=QAFIAg%3D%3D&t=05m29s


https://media.tenor.com/MVD-C7NtmU0AAAAM/i-told-you-right.gif

[warriorfan]

Op was right

[tpols]

It's going to be interesting to see since every game left in this series will be played on 1 day of rest. Despite having more talent, the Lakers endurance is definitely going to be tested by the warriors system.

AD couldn't just sit out in the paint last game since JGreen was used in place of Looney. He had to actually run out to the 3pt line a lot... which may have tired him out for offense.

[BarberSchool]

2011 finals was a masterclass on why iso’s should be concise and when doubled, should result in lots of ball movement side to side.

Dallas wore Miami’s strong side overload D out viciously, while mostly standing still at the 3-pt line swinging the ball back and forth off Doubles on Dirk. Miami’s quads were prolly burning by the end of the 3rd.

Could help to explain away LeFraud’s epic choke job and almost unreal pathetic 4th quarter numbers in that series.

[3ba11]

2011 finals was a masterclass on why iso’s should be concise and when doubled, should result in lots of ball movement side to side.

Dallas wore Miami’s strong side overload D out viciously, while mostly standing still at the 3-pt line swinging the ball back and forth off Doubles on Dirk. Miami’s quads were prolly burning by the end of the 3rd.

Could help to explain away LeFraud’s epic choke job and almost unreal pathetic 4th quarter numbers in that series.


The Mavericks' iso-heavy attack actually moved the ball less than the Heat, who out-assisted the Mavs..

So the issue was less physical fatigue for Lebron and more mental fatigue - the team had a Lebron-Kobe-like duo that was supposed to win automatically - but instead of Lebron/Kobe it was more like Pippen/Kobe, which wasn't nearly enough to beat 1-star team - it turns out that only MJ can win titles with a sidekick getting 18/7/6 and frightened in the clutch

[Axe]

1-9

[Full Court]

3ball was right yet again.

Man, this guy just keeps on getting it right.

Bronie fluffers are shook. :lol

[Jasper]

disagree with OP... but see his point.
My point is most dominate teams with a Kobe ball hog , will have opponents fighting traps , screens and weak side defense help.

which means they are expending more energy to cover someone's ass.
Possibly 2 plays are less likely in defensive schemes , depending on plays ... but could be less effective offensive players as well

[3ba11]

Another 3ball theory confirmed years later as the mainstream media finally figures it out:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QngtYC-g0zQ&pp=QAFIAg%3D%3D&t=05m29s


https://media.tenor.com/MVD-C7NtmU0AAAAM/i-told-you-right.gif


Here's Ethan Strauss saying that ball movement conserves energy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=skQk5M3y10g&t=09m53s

He's actually misguided because ball-domination and ball movement require similar energy for the offense to execute, but different energy to defend - ball movement requires more energy from a defense and wears down a defense so they have less capacity for offense, while ball-domination allows a defense to rest by comparison, and therefore more likely to get hot.

[3ba11]

See the 09' ECF, 11' Finals, 14' Finals or 17' Finals to see teams get hot against ball-domination

Ball-movement is much more effective at wearing down a defense and winning the battle of attrition.. The best defense is a good offense - a tenet of all competition


Add the 2023 Nuggets to the long list of teams that "got hot" against Lebron's abnormal ball-dominance for his size/position