Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = Player Pool Thread

[dankok8]

This is a thread where we compile the names of all players up for consideration. So far I've gathered 32 names that should serve us well. Of course it will become more difficult to assemble the pool from here on out and I need your help. Since we are making a top 50 we should eventually get at least around 60-75 names that will be under consideration. We can finish assembling this large pool as the project is ongoing but we need a solid pool for the top 10 and top 25 right now in order to start the project.

I started by making a list of players that won an MVP plus lead their teams to at least one NBA championship. It's an exclusive list of 20 players since the advent of the shot clock. With the exception of three names (Reed, Walton, Giannis) that are merely top 50 candidates due to lack of longevity, everyone else that has MVP + title probably makes at least the top 25. Then I came up with a list of 12 names that don't have both an MVP plus an NBA title as the best player but should be top 25 candidates regardless.

Top 10 Candidates

Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O’Neal
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James

Top 25 Candidates (includes above)

Bob Pettit
Elgin Baylor
Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
John Havlicek
Julius Erving
Moses Malone
Isiah Thomas
Charles Barkley
David Robinson
Karl Malone
Kevin Garnett
Dwyane Wade
Dirk Nowitzki
Stephen Curry
Kevin Durant
James Harden
Kawhi Leonard

Top 50 Candidates (includes above) -- VERY INCOMPLETE!

Willis Reed
Bill Walton
Giannis Antetokounmpo

Therefore thus far we have 11 players who are candidates for the top 10 and 29 players who are candidates for the top 25. We should probably aim for around 15 and 35 respectively so we need 4-5 more names for the top 10 and top 25. I made these preliminary lists based on my rankings which could be different from everyone else.

I have four questions for y'all...

1. Who else from the top 25 candidates list should go on the top 10 candidates list?

2. Who else should be added to the top 25 candidates list?

3. Who should be on the top 50 candidates list? We need 30-40 more names so this can probably wait till later.

...and of course...

4. Do you have any major disagreements with my classifications? Like "Bro you can't do this... that guy is a scrub!".

[coastalmarker99]

This is a thread where we compile the names of all players up for consideration. So far I've gathered 32 names that should serve us well. Of course it will become more difficult to assemble the pool from here on out and I need your help. Since we are making a top 50 we should eventually get at least around 60-75 names that will be under consideration. We can finish assembling this large pool as the project is ongoing but we need a solid pool for the top 10 and top 25 right now in order to start the project.

I started by making a list of players that won an MVP plus lead their teams to at least one NBA championship. It's an exclusive list of 20 players since the advent of the shot clock. With the exception of three names (Reed, Walton, Giannis) that are merely top 50 candidates due to lack of longevity, everyone else that has MVP + title probably makes at least the top 25. Then I came up with a list of 12 names that don't have both an MVP plus an NBA title as the best player but should be top 25 candidates regardless.

Top 10 Candidates

Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O’Neal
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James

Top 25 Candidates (includes above)

Bob Pettit
Elgin Baylor
Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
John Havlicek
Julius Erving
Moses Malone
Isiah Thomas
Charles Barkley
David Robinson
Karl Malone
Kevin Garnett
Dwyane Wade
Dirk Nowitzki
Stephen Curry
Kevin Durant
James Harden
Kawhi Leonard

Top 50 Candidates (includes above) -- VERY INCOMPLETE!

Willis Reed
Bill Walton
Giannis Antetokounmpo

Therefore thus far we have 11 players who are candidates for the top 10 and 29 players who are candidates for the top 25. We should probably aim for around 15 and 35 respectively so we need 4-5 more names for the top 10 and top 25. I made these preliminary lists based on my rankings which could be different from everyone else.

I have four questions for y'all...

1. Who else from the top 25 candidates list should go on the top 10 candidates list?

2. Who else should be added to the top 25 candidates list?

3. Who should be on the top 50 candidates list? We need 30-40 more names so this can probably wait till later.

...and of course...

4. Do you have any major disagreements with my classifications? Like "Bro you can't do this... that guy is a scrub!".



Mikan has to be a top 25 candidate in my eyes unless you are penalizing him for the era he played in

[dankok8]

Mikan has to be a top 25 candidate in my eyes unless you are penalizing him for the era he played in

A few people said they were against including Mikan since it's a shot-clock era. Can we get others' opinion on this? For or against including Mikan...

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi has 2 finals MVPS. One of them was on the greatest team of all time despite being with a bunch of old guys. The other one was the greatest carry job of all time. Regular season he has led 7 different teams in VORP that were top 3 SRS, which is something that Jordan\Lebron haven't even done.

I heavily promote\vote him into the top 10.

[RRR3]

Trolls aren’t allowed. Ignore HBK brick.

[L.Kizzle]

This is a thread where we compile the names of all players up for consideration. So far I've gathered 32 names that should serve us well. Of course it will become more difficult to assemble the pool from here on out and I need your help. Since we are making a top 50 we should eventually get at least around 60-75 names that will be under consideration. We can finish assembling this large pool as the project is ongoing but we need a solid pool for the top 10 and top 25 right now in order to start the project.

I started by making a list of players that won an MVP plus lead their teams to at least one NBA championship. It's an exclusive list of 20 players since the advent of the shot clock. With the exception of three names (Reed, Walton, Giannis) that are merely top 50 candidates due to lack of longevity, everyone else that has MVP + title probably makes at least the top 25. Then I came up with a list of 12 names that don't have both an MVP plus an NBA title as the best player but should be top 25 candidates regardless.

Top 10 Candidates

Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O’Neal
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James

Top 25 Candidates (includes above)

Bob Pettit
Elgin Baylor
Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
John Havlicek
Julius Erving
Moses Malone
Isiah Thomas
Charles Barkley
David Robinson
Karl Malone
Kevin Garnett
Dwyane Wade
Dirk Nowitzki
Stephen Curry
Kevin Durant
James Harden
Kawhi Leonard

Top 50 Candidates (includes above) -- VERY INCOMPLETE!

Willis Reed
Bill Walton
Giannis Antetokounmpo

Therefore thus far we have 11 players who are candidates for the top 10 and 29 players who are candidates for the top 25. We should probably aim for around 15 and 35 respectively so we need 4-5 more names for the top 10 and top 25. I made these preliminary lists based on my rankings which could be different from everyone else.

I have four questions for y'all...

1. Who else from the top 25 candidates list should go on the top 10 candidates list?

2. Who else should be added to the top 25 candidates list?

3. Who should be on the top 50 candidates list? We need 30-40 more names so this can probably wait till later.

...and of course...

4. Do you have any major disagreements with my classifications? Like "Bro you can't do this... that guy is a scrub!".

West and Robertson belong in the top 10 pool. As should Doc and Moses.

Giannis, Rick Barry needs to be in top 25 pool.

Top 50. Unseld, Cowens, Westbrook, Nash, McAdoo, and Cousy, round out the remaining MVPs (minus Derrick Rose.) CP3, Dwight, Parker, Ray A, Pierce, McGrady, Drexler, Ewing, Pippen, Stockton, Miller, Wilkens, McHale, Parish, Worthy, Hayes, Tiny Archibald, Gervin, Frazier, Sam Jones, Hal Greer, Jerry Lucas, Schayes, Arizin.

[iamgine]

If guys like Baylor or Havlicek made it to top 25 candidates, then certainly Nash, Rick Barry, Cowens & Giannis have to as well.

[ArbitraryWater]

If guys like Baylor or Havlicek made it to top 25 candidates, then certainly Nash, Rick Barry, Cowens & Giannis have to as well.

Giannis yes, no to others.

[SouBeachTalents]

Y’all are way overthinking this imo. I strongly dislike the idea of limiting who we can use for each tier of ranking. There are lots of different players you could conceivably put in the top 25 and esp the top 50.

If we disallow trolls from participating, there shouldn’t be an issue with whichever player gets the most votes gets the spot.

[HoopsNY]

Wish I had time to get into this. Seems like a promising project.

[dankok8]

Y’all are way overthinking this imo. I strongly dislike the idea of limiting who we can use for each tier of ranking. There are lots of different players you could conceivably put in the top 25 and esp the top 50.

If we disallow trolls from participating, there shouldn’t be an issue with whichever player gets the most votes gets the spot.

You misunderstand the tiers. It's not limiting in any way. The purpose of this is so that when we get to let's say #34 in the rankings and someone casts a vote for Elgin Baylor that five people don't say "Oh shit. I would have voted for him 15 spots before." The purpose of the pools is so that we have an idea of everyone we could possibly vote for so we don't forget anyone.

Agree about disallowing trolls.

[dankok8]

Wish I had time to get into this. Seems like a promising project.

You can get in. Obviously the more active people are, the better, but even if you participate in some votes and not all of them, it's ok. You're one of the best posters here and would be an asset to this project.

EDIT:

As per poster requests...

Added Dr J, Moses, West and Oscar to the top 10 pool.
Added Mikan, Barry, Nash, Cowens and Giannis to the top 25 pool.
Will also update the top 50.

Kawhi isn't a serious choice for the top 10 leading one team to a title but has no MVP's and just 5 elite seasons (with lots of games missed to boot) in terms of longevity.

Here is a link to the spreadsheet with the updated player pool. I will reformat it to make it more readable once it's more complete and post it with every voting thread so we can see the candidates.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ARaI3VCNauULLYL1Yu24HIRY768FYQdip56sp6uRFGk/edit?usp=sharing

[dankok8]

Anyone else?

I will make the first thread tomorrow night and we can get this underway. We'll populate the rest of the player pool as we go.

[SouBeachTalents]

You misunderstand the tiers. It's not limiting in any way. The purpose of this is so that when we get to let's say #34 in the rankings and someone casts a vote for Elgin Baylor that five people don't say "Oh shit. I would have voted for him 15 spots before." The purpose of the pools is so that we have an idea of everyone we could possibly vote for so we don't forget anyone.

Agree about disallowing trolls.
Ah, got ya bro. In that case that's actually a really good idea, cause someone like a Baylor could for sure be forgotten about

[L.Kizzle]

Anyone else?

I will make the first thread tomorrow night and we can get this underway. We'll populate the rest of the player pool as we go.
Anthony Davis
Alex English
Dave Bing
Earl Monroe
Pistol Pete
Bernard King
Zo Mourning
Bill Sharman
Bob Lanier
Pau
Chris Webber

[dankok8]

Anthony Davis
Alex English
Dave Bing
Earl Monroe
Pistol Pete
Bernard King
Zo Mourning
Bill Sharman
Bob Lanier
Pau
Chris Webber

Thanks.

I added a bunch more names too... We have about 85 players right now in the top 50 pool with probably more to come. It's maybe a little too many players. On one hand we don't want to miss anyone but if we end up with 200 players in the pool then we are doing ourselves a disservice. Imagine we have 20 participants and we have 6-7 players getting 2-3 votes each. This thread will have to stay active as we go on through the project and we can reduce our pool down to 60-70 players that most of us will actually vote for. We can sort through the list at a later point. We have enough to start the project and get through the top 25. No need to worry about the pool problem now I guess but it crossed my mind.

[SaintzFury13]

Anthony Davis
Alex English
Dave Bing
Earl Monroe
Pistol Pete
Bernard King
Zo Mourning
Bill Sharman
Bob Lanier
Pau
Chris Webber

Take Bernard King off that list right now young man.

[L.Kizzle]

Thanks.

I added a bunch more names too... We have about 85 players right now in the top 50 pool with probably more to come. It's maybe a little too many players. On one hand we don't want to miss anyone but if we end up with 200 players in the pool then we are doing ourselves a disservice. Imagine we have 20 participants and we have 6-7 players getting 2-3 votes each. This thread will have to stay active as we go on through the project and we can reduce our pool down to 60-70 players that most of us will actually vote for. We can sort through the list at a later point. We have enough to start the project and get through the top 25. No need to worry about the pool problem now I guess but it crossed my mind.
Definitely don't need 200. A top 50 list, 75-85 players tops will work.
I mean, I may think Reggie Miller is top 50, but yall might think Ray Allen is. I think that's a good number.

[L.Kizzle]

Take Bernard King off that list right now young man.
He could make a top 50 list, he can also be outside the top 85. It all depends how you rank a player. He had an extraordinary peak.

[SaintzFury13]

He could make a top 50 list, he can also be outside the top 85. It all depends how you rank a player. He had an extraordinary peak.

An extraordinary peak that involved him scoring at an extremely high rate and literally nothing else. I'll give him this: he had a devastating injury that should have ended his career right there and then, but he managed to come back and still get quite a few very good years out of it. I just can't justify him being top 50. Then again, perhaps it is due to my anti-Knicks bias.

[L.Kizzle]

An extraordinary peak that involved him scoring at an extremely high rate and literally nothing else. I'll give him this: he had a devastating injury that should have ended his career right there and then, but he managed to come back and still get quite a few very good years out of it. I just can't justify him being top 50. Then again, perhaps it is due to my anti-Knicks bias.
He's outside of my top 50, just saying he can be in someone's top 50.

[dankok8]

To be fair there are plenty of players I can't see myself voting in the top 50 like Tony Parker and Dave Bing. Not when there are guys like Kidd, Payton, Paul and Westbrook there.

[sdot_thadon]

Then we have guys that are even tough to place, what do you do with a Sam Jones?

[L.Kizzle]

Then we have guys that are even tough to place, what do you do with a Sam Jones?

Sam Jones was the 2nd best player for a lot of those 60s Celtics championships.

[sdot_thadon]

Sam Jones was the 2nd best player for a lot of those 60s Celtics championships.

Right, but most of the people who evoke Bill Russell's name have no clue who the guy is, he was basically the 1st option on offense for all those teams, just thought I'd bring up an enigma for the topic.

[L.Kizzle]

Right, but most of the people who evoke Bill Russell's name have no clue who the guy is, he was basically the 1st option on offense for all those teams, just thought I'd bring up an enigma for the topic.
Right. They probably think KC Jones and Sam Jones are the same player.

[sdot_thadon]

Right. They probably think KC Jones and Sam Jones are the same player.

When I learned who he was and what he was about I felt bad for him, because you barely ever hear his name in the context of the 60s. But I guess it's wrong to expect to in a casual conversation.