Making the case for 2009 being Lebron's peak as a player.

[coastalmarker99]

Stats:
28-8-7, .591 TS%, 9.3 RAPM (1st)

31.7 PER (4th all-time), .318 WS/48 (6th all-time)

LeBron led his team in points, assists, rebounds, blocks, and steals becoming only the 4th player in history to accomplish that feat.

Team Success:

66-16 (80.5)

+8.68 SRS (8.83 when LeBron played

112.4 Offensive Rating

102.4 Defensive Rating

+10.0 efficiency differential (4th in NBA history)

On court: +15.0

Off court: -6.2 off court

Net: +21.2 plus/minus


From 08-10, LeBron missed 14 games. Here are the results:

With: .73.7 win% +5.81 MOV

Without: 1-13 (0.71 win%) (-7.68 MOV)

Difference: 66.6 win%, +13.67 MOV


Defence:

On court: 100.6 D rating (-7.7 relative to league average)

Off-court: 108.8 D rating (+0.5 rel to LA)

Difference: -8.2

The Cavs went from #1 D in the league with LeBron on the court to the equivalent of 18th when he left.

6.5 Defensive win shares (#2 in the league, only SF with more in a season are Pippen and Havlicek)



Top 5 in on-court defensive rating in 2009 (min. 2000 MP):
1. West: 99.2

2. LeBron 100.6

3. Odom 101.4

4. Turkoglu 101.4

5. Howard 101.8

LeBron is also 3rd in FG%, 4th in 3P%, and 3rd in eFG%.

Here is what some of the top SF of 2009 did vs LeBron offensively (their regular season per 36 in parenthesis)

Durant- 16.4 PPG, .51.8 TS% (23.3 PPG, .57.7 TS%)

Pierce- 18.1 PPG, .47.4 TS% (19.7 PPG, .58.2 TS%)

Johnson- 13.7 PPG, .475 TS% (19.5 PPG, .53.4 TS%)

Carmelo- 15.8 PPG, .488 TS% (23.8 PPG, .53.2 TS%)

Butler- 14.2 PPG, .438 TS% (19.4 PPG, .55.2 TS%)

Gay- 10.9 PPG, .357 TS% (18.3 PPG, .52.8 TS%)

Average dropoff: -5.8 PPG, -9.3 TS%

What’s amazing is that when faced Cleveland and LeBron was off the court, they dominated:

The 6 SF’s stats when (Per 36):

LeBron on court: 15.1 PPG, .46.1 TS%, 3.3 Reb, 3.6 AST-3.4 TOV, -9.4 +/-

LeBron off court: 24.6 PPG, .59.6 TS%, 5.9 Reb, 2.3 AST-1.8 TOV, +0.9 +/-

That is a 9.5 points per 36 and 13.5 TS% difference.

In the playoffs, LeBron continued playing elite man defence. Here are how some of his guys did when LeBron was on the court (per 36 minutes):

Tayshaun Prince: 3.9 PPG, .26.0 TS%

Joe Johnson: 15.3 PPG, .48.0 TS%

Marvin Williams: 5.8 PPG, .33.7 TS%

The dropoff from regular season averages: -7.6 PPG, -18.1 TS%

Defensive stats for his position:
17.3 pts/game allowed (1st in league) (13.2 points per 36 minutes)

41.2 FG% allowed (1st)

15.1 FGA allowed (2nd fewest)

16.6 Efficiency allowed (1st)

1.3 Offensive rebounds allowed (3rd)

+2.8 Defensive RAPM [2nd among qualifying perimeter players (Artest)]

4th Quarter:
LeBron averaged 32 Points, 8.4 Rebounds, 7 Assists, .596 TS% per 36 minutes in the 4th quarter.

When LeBron was on the court in the 4th, the Cavs had a 121.2 O Rating, 96.6 D rating (+24.6 Net). He had an absurd 44.1 Assist% in the 4th

In the playoffs, he averaged 32-10-8, .57.4 TS%, 113.8 on court O rating, 98.7 D rating in the 4th quarter. His assist% in the 4th was 48%


The Cavs were +265 (+24.5 per 100 possessions) in the 4th with LeBron on the court and -97 (-13.17 per 100) without LeBron in the 4th quarter which gives LeBron a +37.7 plus/minus in the 4th quarter.

Offence:

On court: 115.6 (+7.3 relative to league average)
Off-court: 102.6 (-5.7 relative to league average)

Net: +13.0 (2nd highest behind CP3).

The Cavs offence went from the equivalent of the 87 Lakers offence to the 2nd worst offence in the league in the minutes LeBron missed.

Clutch:

Clutch stats (per 48): 56-13-13, 4 stl, 2 blk, .69.3 TS%

In the clutch, LeBron’s on-court Offensive rating was 135.1 O rating, 89.5 D rating (+45.5 Net).

In the playoffs, LeBron averaged 58-18-8, .69.6 TS%, 139.6 on court O rating, +30.5 per 48 minutes in the clutch.



Playoffs:

Averaged 35-9-7, .61.8 TS%. His 37.4 PER and .399 WS/48 are both the best in playoff history.
He had a 128 O rating and 100 D rating in the playoffs. Michael Jordan has never beaten either of those numbers in a single playoff.

First 2 rounds:

In the first 2 rounds, LeBron averaged 33-10-7, .64.4 TS%, 139 O Rating, 90 D rating while rocking an absurd 6 turnover% and 35 usage%. LeBron controlled the game as no one has in those 2 rounds.

LeBron had a 117.2 on Court offensive Rating (+9.4 relative to opponent) and 92.4 D Rating (-16.0 relative to opponent ), which gave him a +24.8 on-court plus/minus. The Cavs/LeBron played elite defence in the first 2 rounds.

LeBron had a 43.6 PER in the first 2 rounds (46.8 PER vs. Hawks).

To put that into perspective, from 1993-1998, Michael Jordan’s highest PER in a series was 35.0. :o

Vs Orlando:
Against the #1 defense in the league, LeBron averaged 39-8-8, .59.1 TS%. The Cavs had a 112.9 O rating when he was on the court.

That is a +11.0 offense relative to Orlando’s regular-season D rating. That would be a historic offensive playoff performance.

In 2 of Cleveland’s losses, LeBron’s on court plus/minus was positive.

That means the Cavs outscored the Magic in those games, but the Cavs bench gave up the lead when LeBron was sitting.

LeBron was amazing because of his foul drawing prowess in that series. He drew 64 fouls in that series.

09 LeBron vs. Magic: 64 fouls drawn in 6 games

06 Wade vs. Mavs: 63 fouls drawn in 6 games

So he was as good as Wade who had ref help in terms of drawing fouls.





Teammates:

LeBron’s accomplishments are impressive when you factor his mediocre supporting cast.

In the Orlando series, LeBron had 3 teammates who averaged 10+ PPG. But they combined for a .50.5 TS%.

In the playoffs, LeBron had a 37.4 PER and the 2nd best PER on his team had a 14.5 PER.

That’s a 22.9 PER gap which is the highest in NBA history between the #1 and #2 guy.

[RRR3]

People actually blame him for losing that year lmao

[Sportal]

No... I don't think so. Personally, I think that when he lost to Dallas and come out the next season with a reliable jumper, that's where he should have just kept getting better and better.

[coastalmarker99]

People actually blame him for losing that year lmao


From games 1 to 2 against the Magic

Lebron would post

84 points on 60 percent shooting and he would also be 16 out of 22 from the foul line.



While the rest of the Cavs team would score 118 points on 41 percent shooting and would also be 17 out of 22 at the foul line.



A stagging stat is that throughout the first 2 games is that Lebron had scored a total of 42% of the Cavs points in the series.



In a one-point loss to the Magic in game 1.



Lebron would post 49 points on 20 out of 30 from the floor while the rest of the Cavs would only score 57 points on 23 out of 58 from the floor.





It is also important to note that Lebron had a total of 23 points in the second half of Game 1 alone.



It is hard to understand why people really criticized LeBron for leaving Cleveland as he basically had zero help from 2003 to 2010 with the Cavs.

[coastalmarker99]

No... I don't think so. Personally, I think that when he lost to Dallas and come out the next season with a reliable jumper, that's where he should have just kept getting better and better.

2009 LeBron in the playoffs with an offence centered around him, averaged 35.3/9.1/7.3/1.6/0.9 on 62% TS.

He had a Net Rating of 28 points per 100 possessions, and a Box Plus-Minus of 18.2, both playoff records.

2013 LeBron, in an offence designed for him to either drive, kick out, or catch-and-shoot, averaged 25.9/8.4/6.6/1.8/0.8 on 59% TS.

He had a Net Rating of 17 points, and a Box Plus-Minus of 10.2.

Both his production and efficiency drop significantly, despite having a more focused role on the Heat and better players around him.



There is no doubt in my mind that 2009 LeBron also leads the Heat past the Spurs, and in fewer games, too.

As I firmly believe 2009 LeBron was his overall peak as a player.

[warriorfan]

I’ve always said 2009 was LeBrons peak. His athleticism was on another planet and so was his motor. He could play intense two way basketball for long stretches. It was probably his best year defensively. He had more confidence in his jumpshot and just had more swagger. For me, according to statistics and eye test, 2009 was LeBron’s peak.

[SaintzFury13]

As great as LeBron was in 2009, 2013 was his true peak.

He doesn't have nearly as impressive of a stat line as 2009, and part of the reason for this comes down to the team he played on. Wade was still a 20 PPG scorer in 2013. He had a very deep team. He simply did not need to do as much as he needed to do in 2009. So why is it his true peak? This comes down to just watching what he did on the court. He was dominating the best teams in the NBA and it always felt like he was giving little to no effort to do so. That was the year where his jump shot was arguably at its best. He was a living, breathing nightmare on both ends of the floor. He not only should have been the unanimous MVP (some idiot gave Carmelo a vote), he should have been the DOPY winner too, which would have been the cherry on top of what was already one of the most dominant displays of basketball we had ever seen in a single season. That actually would have made him the only player in NBA history to win MVP, DPOY and Finals MVP in the same season. It's an absolute travesty that Marc Gasol, as much as I like and respect him as a player, won it that season over LeBron. If it's one thing I don't like, it's when a player receives an award they clearly did not deserve, and Marc simply did not deserve the award over LeBron that year.

I can't even begin to imagine how ridiculous LeBron's stats that year would have been if he was giving in the same kind of effort that he gave in 2009, which is one of the reasons why his stats are so eye popping. He HAD to be one of the most dominant players of all time just to give his team a 66 win season.

Edit: Immediately after making this post, I remembered that Hakeem actually accomplished the feat of having an MVP, DPOY and Finals MVP in the same season in 94. Pretty illustrious company. I also just realized that would have made LeBron only the second player in NBA history to have a scoring title, MVP, Finals MVP and DPOY award all in his resume. The first? You guessed it: Michael Jordan.

[SouBeachTalents]

As great as LeBron was in 2009, 2013 was his true peak.

He doesn't have nearly as impressive of a stat line as 2009, and part of the reason for this comes down to the team he played on. Wade was still a 20 PPG scorer in 2013. He had a very deep team. He simply did not need to do as much as he needed to do in 2009. So why is it his true peak? This comes down to just watching what he did on the court. He was dominating the best teams in the NBA and it always felt like he was giving little to no effort to do so. That was the year where his jump shot was arguably at its best. He was a living, breathing nightmare on both ends of the floor. He not only should have been the unanimous MVP (some idiot gave Carmelo a vote), he should have been the DOPY winner too, which would have been the cherry on top of what was already one of the most dominant displays of basketball we had ever seen in a single season. That actually would have made him the only player in NBA history to win MVP, DPOY and Finals MVP in the same season. It's an absolute travesty that Marc Gasol, as much as I like and respect him as a player, won it that season over LeBron. If it's one thing I don't like, it's when a player receives an award they clearly did not deserve, and Marc simply did not deserve the award over LeBron that year.

I can't even begin to imagine how ridiculous LeBron's stats that year would have been if he was giving in the same kind of effort that he gave in 2009, which is one of the reasons why his stats are so eye popping. He HAD to be one of the most dominant players of all time just to give his team a 66 win season.

Edit: Immediately after making this post, I remembered that Hakeem actually accomplished the feat of having an MVP, DPOY and Finals MVP in the same season in 94. Pretty illustrious company. I also just realized that would have made LeBron only the second player in NBA history to have a scoring title, MVP, Finals MVP and DPOY award all in his resume. The first? You guessed it: Michael Jordan.
2013 was LeBron's best regular season, but I have a hard time saying that was his peak when he was so pedestrian (for his standards) in the playoffs. He legitimately struggled to score in the Finals until the 4th quarter of Game 6, and even then he needed a 1 in 100 miracle in the final 30 seconds just to stave off elimination. If Ray misses that 3 I doubt almost anyone would say that was LeBron's peak season, he would actually be heavily criticized for his performance in the Finals.

Imo LeBron simply has too many playoff runs where he was significantly more dominant for me to put that as his peak season.

[8Ball]

2012 was LeBron's true peak.

Did not have 1 bad game in regular season nor the entire playoffs.

Go look at his daily game logs from 2012. Not 1 bad game.

[Manny98]

2012 was LeBron's true peak.

Did not have 1 bad game in regular season nor the entire playoffs.

Go look at his daily game logs from 2012. Not 1 bad game.

This

09 was arguably his best regular season

But 12 LeBron was the absolute best version of LeBron as that was when he was his most hungry

He was a man on a mission that year, nobody could stop him

[BigKobeFan]

2011 was LeThick's peak

[Bronbron23]

Stats:
28-8-7, .591 TS%, 9.3 RAPM (1st)

31.7 PER (4th all-time), .318 WS/48 (6th all-time)

LeBron led his team in points, assists, rebounds, blocks, and steals becoming only the 4th player in history to accomplish that feat.

Team Success:

66-16 (80.5)

+8.68 SRS (8.83 when LeBron played

112.4 Offensive Rating

102.4 Defensive Rating

+10.0 efficiency differential (4th in NBA history)

On court: +15.0

Off court: -6.2 off court

Net: +21.2 plus/minus


From 08-10, LeBron missed 14 games. Here are the results:

With: .73.7 win% +5.81 MOV

Without: 1-13 (0.71 win%) (-7.68 MOV)

Difference: 66.6 win%, +13.67 MOV


Defence:

On court: 100.6 D rating (-7.7 relative to league average)

Off-court: 108.8 D rating (+0.5 rel to LA)

Difference: -8.2

The Cavs went from #1 D in the league with LeBron on the court to the equivalent of 18th when he left.

6.5 Defensive win shares (#2 in the league, only SF with more in a season are Pippen and Havlicek)



Top 5 in on-court defensive rating in 2009 (min. 2000 MP):
1. West: 99.2

2. LeBron 100.6

3. Odom 101.4

4. Turkoglu 101.4

5. Howard 101.8

LeBron is also 3rd in FG%, 4th in 3P%, and 3rd in eFG%.

Here is what some of the top SF of 2009 did vs LeBron offensively (their regular season per 36 in parenthesis)

Durant- 16.4 PPG, .51.8 TS% (23.3 PPG, .57.7 TS%)

Pierce- 18.1 PPG, .47.4 TS% (19.7 PPG, .58.2 TS%)

Johnson- 13.7 PPG, .475 TS% (19.5 PPG, .53.4 TS%)

Carmelo- 15.8 PPG, .488 TS% (23.8 PPG, .53.2 TS%)

Butler- 14.2 PPG, .438 TS% (19.4 PPG, .55.2 TS%)

Gay- 10.9 PPG, .357 TS% (18.3 PPG, .52.8 TS%)

Average dropoff: -5.8 PPG, -9.3 TS%

What’s amazing is that when faced Cleveland and LeBron was off the court, they dominated:

The 6 SF’s stats when (Per 36):

LeBron on court: 15.1 PPG, .46.1 TS%, 3.3 Reb, 3.6 AST-3.4 TOV, -9.4 +/-

LeBron off court: 24.6 PPG, .59.6 TS%, 5.9 Reb, 2.3 AST-1.8 TOV, +0.9 +/-

That is a 9.5 points per 36 and 13.5 TS% difference.

In the playoffs, LeBron continued playing elite man defence. Here are how some of his guys did when LeBron was on the court (per 36 minutes):

Tayshaun Prince: 3.9 PPG, .26.0 TS%

Joe Johnson: 15.3 PPG, .48.0 TS%

Marvin Williams: 5.8 PPG, .33.7 TS%

The dropoff from regular season averages: -7.6 PPG, -18.1 TS%

Defensive stats for his position:
17.3 pts/game allowed (1st in league) (13.2 points per 36 minutes)

41.2 FG% allowed (1st)

15.1 FGA allowed (2nd fewest)

16.6 Efficiency allowed (1st)

1.3 Offensive rebounds allowed (3rd)

+2.8 Defensive RAPM [2nd among qualifying perimeter players (Artest)]

4th Quarter:
LeBron averaged 32 Points, 8.4 Rebounds, 7 Assists, .596 TS% per 36 minutes in the 4th quarter.

When LeBron was on the court in the 4th, the Cavs had a 121.2 O Rating, 96.6 D rating (+24.6 Net). He had an absurd 44.1 Assist% in the 4th

In the playoffs, he averaged 32-10-8, .57.4 TS%, 113.8 on court O rating, 98.7 D rating in the 4th quarter. His assist% in the 4th was 48%


The Cavs were +265 (+24.5 per 100 possessions) in the 4th with LeBron on the court and -97 (-13.17 per 100) without LeBron in the 4th quarter which gives LeBron a +37.7 plus/minus in the 4th quarter.

Offence:

On court: 115.6 (+7.3 relative to league average)
Off-court: 102.6 (-5.7 relative to league average)

Net: +13.0 (2nd highest behind CP3).

The Cavs offence went from the equivalent of the 87 Lakers offence to the 2nd worst offence in the league in the minutes LeBron missed.

Clutch:

Clutch stats (per 48): 56-13-13, 4 stl, 2 blk, .69.3 TS%

In the clutch, LeBron’s on-court Offensive rating was 135.1 O rating, 89.5 D rating (+45.5 Net).

In the playoffs, LeBron averaged 58-18-8, .69.6 TS%, 139.6 on court O rating, +30.5 per 48 minutes in the clutch.



Playoffs:

Averaged 35-9-7, .61.8 TS%. His 37.4 PER and .399 WS/48 are both the best in playoff history.
He had a 128 O rating and 100 D rating in the playoffs. Michael Jordan has never beaten either of those numbers in a single playoff.

First 2 rounds:

In the first 2 rounds, LeBron averaged 33-10-7, .64.4 TS%, 139 O Rating, 90 D rating while rocking an absurd 6 turnover% and 35 usage%. LeBron controlled the game as no one has in those 2 rounds.

LeBron had a 117.2 on Court offensive Rating (+9.4 relative to opponent) and 92.4 D Rating (-16.0 relative to opponent ), which gave him a +24.8 on-court plus/minus. The Cavs/LeBron played elite defence in the first 2 rounds.

LeBron had a 43.6 PER in the first 2 rounds (46.8 PER vs. Hawks).

To put that into perspective, from 1993-1998, Michael Jordan’s highest PER in a series was 35.0. :o

Vs Orlando:
Against the #1 defense in the league, LeBron averaged 39-8-8, .59.1 TS%. The Cavs had a 112.9 O rating when he was on the court.

That is a +11.0 offense relative to Orlando’s regular-season D rating. That would be a historic offensive playoff performance.

In 2 of Cleveland’s losses, LeBron’s on court plus/minus was positive.

That means the Cavs outscored the Magic in those games, but the Cavs bench gave up the lead when LeBron was sitting.

LeBron was amazing because of his foul drawing prowess in that series. He drew 64 fouls in that series.

09 LeBron vs. Magic: 64 fouls drawn in 6 games

06 Wade vs. Mavs: 63 fouls drawn in 6 games

So he was as good as Wade who had ref help in terms of drawing fouls.





Teammates:

LeBron’s accomplishments are impressive when you factor his mediocre supporting cast.

In the Orlando series, LeBron had 3 teammates who averaged 10+ PPG. But they combined for a .50.5 TS%.

In the playoffs, LeBron had a 37.4 PER and the 2nd best PER on his team had a 14.5 PER.

That’s a 22.9 PER gap which is the highest in NBA history between the #1 and #2 guy.

Nah his jumper was sus in 09

[HoopsNY]

Definitely can be considered one of his peak years. LeBron's peak was 2009-14.

[tpols]

In the 2009 ECFs, the magic shot 62/152 from 3pt range. The Cavs shot 42/130. Lebron shot 29%.

Once again... it was Lebron subpar shooting that doomed his team.

The Cavs were massive favorites heading into this series.

[FKAri]

In the 2009 ECFs, the magic shot 62/152 from 3pt range. The Cavs shot 42/130. Lebron shot 29%.

Once again... it was Lebron subpar shooting that doomed his team.

The Cavs were massive favorites heading into this series.

So did Lebron have a poor shooting performance in his peak year. Or was that not Lebron's peak year? I personally don't think it was Lebron's peak year but it was close enough. 09 was a good year for a lot of guys.

[ShawkFactory]

In the 2009 ECFs, the magic shot 62/152 from 3pt range. The Cavs shot 42/130. Lebron shot 29%.

Once again... it was Lebron subpar shooting that doomed his team.

The Cavs were massive favorites heading into this series.

The Magic outshoot the Cavs 41% to 32%.

That's not on one player. If Lebron shoots say, 34%...is that the difference?

[tpols]

The Magic outshoot the Cavs 41% to 32%.

That's not on one player. If Lebron shoots say, 34%...is that the difference?

That means Lebron individually shot worse on average than both teams.

29%. Checkmate.

Everybody knows that series was based on long range shooting. Teams doubled Dwight and Stan Van is known for explicitly saying he'd play Lebron straight up.

So Dwights teammates were afforded much better looks, Lebrons weren't, and to top it all off Lebron was shooting 29% himself.

It was a massive upset. You can't spin it.

[ShawkFactory]

That means Lebron individually shot worse on average than both teams.

29%. Checkmate.

Everybody knows that series was based on long range shooting. Teams doubled Dwight and Stan Van is known for explicitly saying he'd play Lebron straight up.

So Dwights teammates were afforded much better looks, Lebrons weren't, and to top it all off Lebron was shooting 29% himself.

It was a massive upset. You can't spin it.

It seems like it's been over a decade since you've seen that series. You're right about Lebron being played straight up, for the most part.

You're wrong about everything else. Dwight went off. Lewis was hitting tough shots all series (2 of which literally changed the outcome); Alston and Pietrus just happened to be hot.

They shot like 31% as a team in the finals from 3. Did the Lakers decide not to double Dwight and focus on the shooters? Because Dwight's personal numbers in the series suggest the Lakers put more work into defending him than the Cavs did (I'm fine with basing everything on suggestions and not what actually happened since that seems to be what you're doing).

Sometimes things happen and they don't always have the meaning that you want it to. Sometimes there's no meaning to it at all. Guys get hot and cold.

Yes, it was an upset. But you're the one spinning it.

[warriorfan]

That means Lebron individually shot worse on average than both teams.

29%. Checkmate.

Everybody knows that series was based on long range shooting. Teams doubled Dwight and Stan Van is known for explicitly saying he'd play Lebron straight up.

So Dwights teammates were afforded much better looks, Lebrons weren't, and to top it all off Lebron was shooting 29% himself.

It was a massive upset. You can't spin it.

LeBron had home court advantage. The Magic were missing their all-star point guard Jameer Nelson. LeBron was heavily favored going into the series. Most analysts picked the Cavs to win.

https://i.postimg.cc/NFVmYp1f/F9-CC9196-CA82-42-A6-95-CF-DC5-BE031-E935.jpg

[SaintzFury13]

LeBron had home court advantage. The Magic were missing their all-star point guard Jameer Nelson. LeBron was heavily favored going into the series. Most analysts picked the Cavs to win.

https://i.postimg.cc/NFVmYp1f/F9-CC9196-CA82-42-A6-95-CF-DC5-BE031-E935.jpg

The Magic won the regular season series 2-1. Analysts who don't watch the regular season have little to no merit on the matter.

[SaintzFury13]

In the 2009 ECFs, the magic shot 62/152 from 3pt range. The Cavs shot 42/130. Lebron shot 29%.

Once again... it was Lebron subpar shooting that doomed his team.

The Cavs were massive favorites heading into this series.

You're an idiot.

[warriorfan]

The Magic won the regular season series 2-1. Analysts who don't watch the regular season have little to no merit on the matter.

Their rosters weren’t the same as their earlier regular season matchups. The removal of Jameer Nelson was a big deal. They went from having an all-star point guard to an and1 player.

[SaintzFury13]

Their rosters weren’t the same as their earlier regular season matchups. The removal of Jameer Nelson was a big deal. They went from having an all-star point guard to an and1 player.

Buddy, Jameer Nelson only played in one of those regular season matchups. And he was barely going to be a factor in that series anyways because if he played, he was going to have LeBron guarding him. And having LeBron guard you in 2009 was the last thing that you wanted if you were a PG, because he was still an athletic freak and could run around the court for 48 minutes AND knew how to play elite level defense. And how do I know LeBron would have been guarding him? Because LeBron spent most of that series guarding Alston, who was Nelson's back up.

And in those two games that Jameer didn't play? In the first one, the Cavaliers won in a tightly contested game that was decided by four points, 97-93. The Cavaliers needed a 43 point performance from LeBron James just to come out on top. In their next meeting? The Magic blew them the **** out 116-87.

Again, analysts who didn't watch the Cavaliers or Magic for that matter of course thought the Cavaliers were going to win the series. People like myself and a few others I talked to before that series who actually paid attention to both teams all had the same feeling: The Magic had legitimate match up advantages over the Cavaliers and were not going to be nearly as easy to overcome as the previous two teams. I was not surprised at all when the Magic won. Did I predict them to win? No. But I'm not like most idiots who consider it a massive upset because it honestly wasn't. It was very clear going off of the regular season meetings that the Magic were on the Cavaliers level and were very capable of beating them. Anyone who wants to argue that this is a massive upset is a ****ing idiot. The 1969 Boston Celtics winning the NBA finals is a massive upset. The Pistons defeating the Lakers in 2004 was a massive upset. This is not a massive upset. This is a better team winning that many people thought they were underdogs because they have no idea what they're talking about.

[warriorfan]

Buddy, Jameer Nelson only played in one of those regular season matchups. And he was barely going to be a factor in that series anyways because if he played, he was going to have LeBron guarding him. And having LeBron guard you in 2009 was the last thing that you wanted if you were a PG, because he was still an athletic freak and could run around the court for 48 minutes AND knew how to play elite level defense. And how do I know LeBron would have been guarding him? Because LeBron spent most of that series guarding Alston, who was Nelson's back up.

Again, analysts who didn't watch the Cavaliers or Magic for that matter of course thought the Cavaliers were going to win the series. People like myself and a few others I talked to before that series who actually paid attention to both teams all had the same feeling: The Magic had legitimate match up advantages over the Cavaliers and were not going to be nearly as easy to overcome as the previous two teams. I was not surprised at all when the Magic won. Did I predict them to win? No. But I'm not like most idiots who consider it a massive upset because it honestly wasn't.

There you go.

[SaintzFury13]

There you go.

How does me thinking Cleveland would still win prove my point to be incorrect?

[warriorfan]

How does me thinking Cleveland would still win prove my point to be incorrect?

LeBron had the best record in the league and home court advantage. Orlando was missing an All-Star. The majority, including yourself, predicted the Cavaliers to win. They lost. It was an upset. And trying to imply that losing Jameer Nelson didn’t mean anything “cuz lebron would have guarded him” is straight cringe.

[SaintzFury13]

LeBron had the best record in the league and home court advantage. Orlando was missing an All-Star. The majority, including yourself, predicted the Cavaliers to win. They lost. It was an upset. And trying to imply that losing Jameer Nelson didn’t mean anything “cuz lebron would have guarded him” is straight cringe.

Still doesn't disprove my point. Analysts predicted the Cavaliers would win because they "thought" the Cavaliers had the clear cut better team. They didn't. The Magic were clearly the better team based on their regular season match ups and the fact that they had legitimate match up advantages over them.

I personally thought the Cavaliers were going to win in a close series for two reasons. My logic at the time was that the Cavaliers had steamrolled through their first two opponents and thus they were going to have a lot more energy and confidence. The Magic on the other hand had to fight much harder to reach the ECF, including going through a tough series against the 62 win Celtics team. And thus they had less rest and were probably a little shaky at the fact that they fought hard just to beat a team that was missing arguably their best player.

What I didn't count on was that Mo Williams would be so terrible in that series, as were the rest of the Cleveland team. By the time we actually saw Mo and company show up and help, it was already too late. Granted, LeBron shat the bed in game 6, but that doesn't take away literally everything else he did beforehand in that series.

And also, I'm not trying to imply anything. I am TELLING you that Jameer Nelson would have done jack shit in that series because LeBron would have been guarding him. PG's who are guarded by LeBron for most of a playoff series do not have good stories to tell about it. I'm sure Derrick Rose would love to tell you the horror stories he experienced when he had to deal with LeBron guarding him in 2011, the year he won his MVP award, or when Tony Parker ate massive shit in the 2013 Finals once he became LeBron's main defensive assignment. And that's Tony Parker. Imagine how Nelson would have done against a faster and younger LeBron James. Try to tell me then that Nelson would have been in anyway a factor and I will laugh in your face for such a ridiculous claim.

Edit: Just realized I never gave my second reason. My second reason is because of how good LeBron James was that season, and I thought that LeBron had decent enough help to the point where he'd just have another godly series and would carry Cleveland past Orlando. And the funny part is, he almost did. But like I said before...his supporting cast didn't show up until it was already too late.

[coastalmarker99]

I’ve always said 2009 was LeBrons peak. His athleticism was on another planet and so was his motor. He could play intense two way basketball for long stretches. It was probably his best year defensively. He had more confidence in his jumpshot and just had more swagger. For me, according to statistics and eye test, 2009 was LeBron’s peak.

Defense: 09 Cavs with LeBron on the floor had a 100.6 DRtg (-7.7) while the Magic with DPOY Howard had a 101.8 DRtg (-6.5)

The Cavs overall were only the 3rd best defence at -5.9 because they fell off a cliff without LeBron (below-average defense at +0.5).

LeBron led the Cavs in every defensive statistic: defensive rebounds, total rebounds, steals, blocks and defensive on-off.

He ranked 2nd in DRAPM among perimeter players behind Artest, 2nd in opponent PER among perimeter players behind Kirilenko (while playing considerably more minutes than either) and the Cavs were first at the SF position in points and efficiency allowed.

[Wally450]

I’ve always said 2009 was LeBrons peak. His athleticism was on another planet and so was his motor. He could play intense two way basketball for long stretches. It was probably his best year defensively. He had more confidence in his jumpshot and just had more swagger. For me, according to statistics and eye test, 2009 was LeBron’s peak.

I agree with all of this if you said 2013 instead of 2009. LeBron's jumper in 2013 was pretty damn good. He shot with confidence. I'd say 2009 for athletic peak, but 2013 LeBron for overall peak.

[000]

Why not 2012? 30/10/6 in the playoffs with MVP & FMVP.

[Axe]

So his best year was when he lost in the one of the conference finals he played in? Interesting.

[ShawkFactory]

LeBron had the best record in the league and home court advantage. Orlando was missing an All-Star. The majority, including yourself, predicted the Cavaliers to win. They lost. It was an upset. And trying to imply that losing Jameer Nelson didn’t mean anything “cuz lebron would have guarded him” is straight cringe.

Everyone has agreed that it was an upset. The whole point is the meaning ascribed to the upset. Which to certain people is “Lebron sucks”.

The Packers losing to the Giants in 2011 doesn’t mean Aaron Rodgers sucks, even though certain people tried to claim that too. Sometimes things happen within a matchup.

Obviously a series is different than a single game but the point remains. There are a variety of factors involved.

[ELITEpower23]

So his best year was when he lost in the one of the conference finals he played in? Interesting.

Nope! Only rings matter! Garnett's 2008 playoffs run where he scored 20.4 ppg and was his 6th highest was for sure his best because he won a championship!

[Axe]

Nope! Only rings matter! Garnett's 2008 playoffs run where he scored 20.4 ppg and was his 6th highest was for sure his best because he won a championship!
Meanwhile, iggy scored around 15 ppg during the 2015 finals and got the finals mvp over teammate stephen curry when the warriors won. :cry:

[3ba11]

People actually blame him for losing that year lmao


his individual stats don't translate to good team strategy (ball movement) or teammate maximization, so his teams have weak ceilings/Finals record, regardless of cast or coach.

it doesn't matter how big the stats are if the team brand of basketball suffers - it's like telling your best player to go out there and dribble down the shot clock every play like they're an AAU ball-dominator... oh wait...

[dankok8]

Lebron deserves ZERO blame for 2009. You don't blame a guy who put up 38/8/8 on like 59 %TS.

[3ba11]

Lebron deserves ZERO blame for 2009. You don't blame a guy who put up 38/8/8 on like 59 %TS.


Nonsense


Low IQ post

[Axe]

Nonsense


Low IQ post
Just like your 30k agenda threads about kong and pippen from your main. ;)

[RRR3]

deee duhhhhhh durrrrrr hurrrr
:roll:

[3ba11]

Just like your 30k agenda threads about kong and pippen from your main. ;)


It's dumb to say that all 38 points are the same - so Westbrook gets those stats and he's a loser, but when Lebron loses with it, it's okay

How do you guys look yourself in the mirror without smashing it?.. I guess ignorance of how dumb you are is bliss

[WhiteKyrie]

The Magic won the regular season series 2-1. Analysts who don't watch the regular season have little to no merit on the matter.

Regular season records aren’t indicative of shit

[Axe]

It's dumb to say that all 38 points are the same - so Westbrook gets those stats and he's a loser, but when Lebron loses with it, it's okay

How do you guys look yourself in the mirror without smashing it?.. I guess ignorance of how dumb you are is bliss
For every achievement of kong, there's always a nitpick from you. And you've been doing this since when? Seven years ago? :oldlol:

Go get some help.

[1987_Lakers]

Everyone has agreed that it was an upset. The whole point is the meaning ascribed to the upset. Which to certain people is “Lebron sucks”.

The Packers losing to the Giants in 2011 doesn’t mean Aaron Rodgers sucks, even though certain people tried to claim that too. Sometimes things happen within a matchup.

Obviously a series is different than a single game but the point remains. There are a variety of factors involved.

Packers vs Giants in 2011 is a good example, off the top of my head the Packers were like 15-1 that year, Giants were 9-7, if you look at their records you would think the Packers would have steamrolled them, but I vividly remember people saying the Giants matchup well vs the Packers and a friend of mine even picked the Giants to win, Packers were still favorites, but people knew of potential matchup problems the Giants brought to the table. It did not end well for the Packers.

[coastalmarker99]

Packers vs Giants in 2011 is a good example, off the top of my head the Packers were like 15-1 that year, Giants were 9-7, if you look at their records you would think the Packers would have steamrolled them, but I vividly remember people saying the Giants match up well vs the Packers and a friend of mine even picked the Giants to win, Packers were still favourites, but people knew of potential matchup problems the Giants brought to the table. It did not end well for the Packers.



The Giants have always seemed to have some of the luckiest super bowl title-winning teams of all time.



1990 They barely get past the 49ers who were looking to three-peat in the NFC title game. And then in Superbowl 25, Scott Norwood misses the field goal to win the Superbowl for the Bills.







2007 Favre throws one of the worst passes ever in the NFC title game. And then in the Superbowl, the Giants have one of the luckiest plays in sports history with the helmet catch to upset an undefeated New England team.




In 2011 in the NFC title game, Kyle Williams had one of the WOAT games ever and then they kicked a field goal to win the game in overtime.
And then in the Superbowl Wes Welker drops a pass in the fourth quarter that basically would have sealed the game for New England.




Scott Norwood misses the field goal of his career


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT0r8wBL4QU






NY Giants - The Helmet Catch 1(Eli to David Tyree)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxiHMIM4NWI







Wes Welker Superbowl XLVI Dropped Pass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT6XziIQ5RI

[Genaro]

Not in my book. Lebron has a lot of good years, but I like him better after he matured and his jumper was more consistent. If I had to pick just one year, considering RS and playoffs, I would say 2012 was his best. He was dominant throughout the whole year, his jumper was better and he was fearless.
His best regular season was probably 2013, his best playoffs 2018. I love his 2018 version. His jumper was wet, he was still athletic, but he was so much smarter and controlling the game. He dragged that not so good Cavs team to the finals.

Long story short, his best years in my book are: 2012 > 2013 > 2018 > 2009 > 2016