If Westbrook was 6'8" with super-teams, what do you think his Finals record would be?

[3ba11]

Oh wait... We already know... 4/10 including a couple teammate bailouts

CONCLUSION - brand of ball matters and ball-dominant brands/skillsets mostly lose regardless of player, cast, coach or odds..

Accordingly, Lebron, Westbrook, or any similar ball-dominator is dimensions below other greats that didn't need to dominate the ball and therefore had higher team ceiling/Finals record, aka MJ, Bird, or Kobe, and possibly KD, Kawhi and Giannis when their careers are over.

[SATAN]

If Jordan never had Pippen & Phil, what do you think his Finals record would be? :yaohappy:

[Shogon]

So the absolute only differences between Westbrook and LeBron are height and teammates and that's it... yep... otherwise they are EXACTLY the same.

It's time to latch on to a new gimmick with a new account.

The absolute grasping at straws at this point is pathetic beyond words.

[3ba11]

If Jordan never had Pippen & Phil, what do you think his Finals record would be? :yaohappy:


So you're introducing a hypothetical where Jordan doesn't have a sidekick average 19.0 on 42% in 6 Finals and doesn't average 17 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs and doesn't trick off titles with migraines, or nearly trick off titles by getting destroyed by X-man and other role players?.. Pippen's advanced stats and efficiency in the 93' Playoffs are worst-ever for a winning sidekick (worse than 14' Wade)

So without Pippen, Jordan would win from 88-90' - so that's 3 more titles.. and 95'... So that's 4.. And the new sidekick doesn't fracture the team by sitting out in 98', so the Bulls don't get disbanded and win in 99'... So that's 5 more titles for Jordan without Pippen.. ultimately, the Bulls won the 92', 93', and 96-98' titles IN SPITE of pippen.

Regarding Phil - he was a 1st time, nobody coach in 90/91, while MJ was the goat candidate that built Phil by lending his goat skill to the fledgling triangle.. MJ and his clone won 11 chips with that trash offense and made it famous.

[8Ball]

6'8" westbrook would be better player than Jordan.


Just like LeBron.


Next thread.

[RRR3]

LeBron destroyed Kobe head to head. 16-6 yikes.

[Axe]

Then he wouldn't be shackled to just one player for his playoff success.

[3ba11]

So the absolute only differences between Westbrook and LeBron are height and teammates and that's it... yep... otherwise they are EXACTLY the same.

It's time to latch on to a new gimmick with a new account.

The absolute grasping at straws at this point is pathetic beyond words.


When Lebron gets 35/10/10 on horrific efficiency in the 2015 Playoffs, the narrative is that his teammates weren't good enough, but when Westbrook does it, he's just a bad player.

Lebron has a Westbrook skillset and that kind of ball-dominant skillset doesn't win like a ball movement skillset... aka Magic and Lebron are 9-10 in the Finals, versus 11-2 for MJ/Kobe.. or we can compare guys that didn't have super-teams like Dirk, Curry, or Kawhi to CP3, Nash Westbrook, Harden, etc

[8Ball]

When Lebron gets 35/10/10 on horrific efficiency in the 2015 Playoffs, the narrative is that his teammates weren't good enough, but when Westbrook does it, he's just a bad player.

Lebron has a Westbrook skillset and that kind of ball-dominant skillset doesn't win like a ball movement skillset... aka Magic and Lebron are 9-10 in the Finals, versus 11-2 for MJ/Kobe.. or we can compare guys that didn't have super-teams like Dirk, Curry, or Kawhi to CP3, Nash Westbrook, Harden, etc

Wrong.

LeBron is better than Jordan according to a poster named 3ball.

https://i.ibb.co/XCD6m9n/3-Ball-Le-Bron-is-the-GOAT.png

[imdaman99]

Westbrook doesn't have the IQ that Lebron has so no I don't think that even guarantees him a ring. He could very possibly have at least 1 though.

[ELITEpower23]

If Jordan never had Pippen & Phil, what do you think his Finals record would be? :yaohappy:

STOP.



DROP.



SHUTTEM DOWN OPEN UP SHOP.




:dancin


:pimp:

[3ba11]

Wrong.

LeBron is better than Jordan according to a poster named 3ball.

https://i.ibb.co/XCD6m9n/3-Ball-Le-Bron-is-the-GOAT.png


That doesn't say Lebron is better than Jordan or as good, despite being in the naive era before anyone understood the fraud resume manufacturing that Clutch Sports was executing.

So again, we know that the ball-dominator skillset mostly loses because a 6'8" Westbrook (bron) mostly loses with it.. This confirms that regardless of physical talent, brand of ball matters and ball-dominant brands/skillsets mostly lose regardless of player, cast, coach or odds..

Accordingly, Lebron, Westbrook, or any similar ball-dominator is dimensions below other greats that didn't need to dominate the ball and therefore had higher team ceiling/Finals record, aka MJ, Bird, or Kobe, and possibly KD, Kawhi and Giannis when their careers are over.

[8Ball]

"LeBron is better"

:roll:

[3ba11]

"LeBron is better"

:roll:


Why would anyone, let alone 3ball, say that "Bron's better than MJ" because he "crushed it last night" (after scoring 30 points in a 2013 ECF win as a 1x champion)?...

it makes no sense because that's the altered part..

it's clear they cut and pasted in that post because the first sentence has nothing to do with the 2nd - they altered that post and the others.. That's how mad I make you guys and it was worse for them because they really think they're smart

I'm going to sue them over it

[8Ball]

Why would anyone, let alone 3ball, say that "Bron's better than MJ" because he "crushed it last night" (after scoring 30 points in a 2013 ECF win as a 1x champion)?...

it makes no sense because that's the altered part..

it's clear they cut and pasted in that post because the first sentence has nothing to do with the 2nd - they altered that post and the others.. That's how mad I make you guys and it was worse for them because they really think they're smart

I'm going to sue them over it

:roll:

[8Ball]

The banned you 20x there and wiped your post history yet they would cut and paste your original account.

[ralph_i_el]

LeBron is a much better shooter, and has a significantly lower turnover rate than Russ. Giving Russ 5 more inches wouldn't change that. If Russ could shoot and take care of the ball like LeBron, he'd be a champion already at his current height.

[3ba11]

The banned you 20x there and wiped your post history yet they would cut and paste your original account.


I actually just realized what happened

My post was saying what THEY think (the poster I'm responding to and like-minded posters)

Lets recap...

The guy I'm responding to (Seadood) thinks Lebron is better than MJ based on an article and last night's performance.. I responded by saying he (Seadood) wouldn't think that if MJ played today, but after 20 years, he thinks bron is better (because of recency bias, aka Seadood thinks "lebron crushed it last night, so he's better than Lebron").. Those words are what I think Seadood is thinking.

Everyone knew at the time what I meant but after 8 years the translation is misinterpreted..

[tpols]

Lebron is a lot smarter and better than westbrick but it is true if Russell played with Wade, AD, Bosh, Love, Kyrie, etc. in a pathetic conference he'd have a couple rings. Lebron is two shots he didn't make away from 2/10. And on the flip side when he loses its by tidal wave.

[j3lademaster]

LeBron is a much better shooter, and has a significantly lower turnover rate than Russ. Giving Russ 5 more inches wouldn't change that. If Russ could shoot and take care of the ball like LeBron, he'd be a champion already at his current height.I agree with your points about Russ's weaknesses, but 5 inches of height is a lot dude. Westbrook's problem is he's relatively unskilled for his position and relies on bullyball too much. Which to his credit, he can bully even big guards. But make Russ 5 inches taller he'd be sittin at... what, 250? In a small ball climate? He can totally change his game at this point. 6'8 is average height for small ball centers now. Imagine if Ben Simmons was a better rebounder and had the mental fortitude of a Russell Westbrook? He'd play bully ball all day with the exception of maybe a handful of defenders in the league.

[SaintzFury13]

Lebron has a Westbrook skillset

This is taking trolling to another level. Either that or you want everyone to know that you have no idea how the sport of basketball works. To even try to imply that LeBron has a Westbrook skillset is completely asinine.

[SaintzFury13]

Lebron is a lot smarter and better than westbrick but it is true if Russell played with Wade, AD, Bosh, Love, Kyrie, etc. in a pathetic conference he'd have a couple rings. Lebron is two shots he didn't make away from 2/10. And on the flip side when he loses its by tidal wave.

How? Irving's three pointer isn't what saved Cleveland. LeBron still made the free throw which would have given Cleveland the win. His block had a lot more to do with Cleveland winning than Irving's three. It was going to happen regardless of whether or not Irving hit that shot. Can't say the same about whether or not LeBron gets that block.

[Axe]

This is taking trolling to another level. Either that or you want everyone to know that you have no idea how the sport of basketball works. To even try to imply that LeBron has a Westbrook skillset is completely asinine.
Lol you do realize he's been doing this since 2014? Stop beating the dead horse already. :oldlol:

[SaintzFury13]

Lol you do realize he's been doing this since 2014?

How the hell am I supposed to know that?

[Axe]

How the hell am I supposed to know that?
Didn't you say before that prior to creating an account in this place, you've been lurking for a long time now?

[SaintzFury13]

Didn't you say before that prior to creating an account in this place, you've been lurking for a long time now?

No. I said I lurked very briefly, started right around the start of the finals.

[3ba11]

Lebron is a lot smarter and better than westbrick but it is true if Russell played with Wade, AD, Bosh, Love, Kyrie, etc. in a pathetic conference he'd have a couple rings. Lebron is two shots he didn't make away from 2/10. And on the flip side when he loses its by tidal wave.


So a "smart" version of Westbrook still lost?

So apparently, brand of ball matters and ball-dominant brands/skillsets mostly lose regardless of player, cast, coach, odds, or smartness..

Accordingly, Lebron, Westbrook, or any similar ball-dominator is dimensions below other greats that didn't need to dominate the ball and therefore had higher team ceiling/Finals record, aka MJ, Bird, or Kobe, and possibly KD, Kawhi and Giannis when their careers are over.

[3ba11]

.
List of 1st options that shot 35% in a playoff series


Lebron



^^^ so don't claim Lebron is "smart" for having worst-ever efficiency and the most turnovers ever.. This idea that Lebron is "smarter" than Westbrook is based on nothing - maybe shot selection, but that's it - otherwise, Lebron/Westbrook play the same dumb brand of ball-dominancr that can't win without super-teams and mostly loses despite super-teams

[Ryoka Narusawa]

He would be 4/10 like someone else we know of

[3ba11]

Lebron is a lot smarter


.


Lebron's shot selection is better but that's it - he otherwise isn't smarter because ball-dominators like Westbrook or Lebron don't know how to employ the best strategy (ball-movement), which is dumb... so they lose without super-teams (and mostly lose with super-teams)..

And Lebron is the only 1st option that shot 35% in a playoff series (worst-ever efficiency), while also being the career leader in turnovers.. so he's a dumb loser like Westbrook, but team-hopped to save his career.

Ultimately, ball-dominators that can't play a ball-movement brand = dumb player... The only reason Lebron isn't a career loser like the other ball-dominators is because he formed super-teams

[8Ball]

This is taking trolling to another level. Either that or you want everyone to know that you have no idea how the sport of basketball works. To even try to imply that LeBron has a Westbrook skillset is completely asinine.

This is 3ball before he became a troll. Even said LeBron is better.


https://i.ibb.co/XCD6m9n/3-Ball-Le-Bron-is-the-GOAT.png

[8Ball]

No. I said I lurked very briefly, started right around the start of the finals.

A fact you should know about 3ball:

- Copy pastes his replies from a spreadsheet.

He isn't worth arguing with since he has zero honesty in his arguments.

[3ba11]

This is 3ball before he became a troll. Even said LeBron is better.


https://i.ibb.co/XCD6m9n/3-Ball-Le-Bron-is-the-GOAT.png


That's me describing what Seadood was thinking - i.e. his recency bias after 20 years of Jordan not playing ("Bron's better, he crushed it last night", aka recency bias)..

Everyone in that conversation knew this at the time and no one was saying "okay great you"re a Lebron fan like us now".. everyone knew I was making an argument against Lebron and the argument continued for another 700 pages.

However, people that weren't involved in the original conversation 8 years ago went back and took the post out of context and misinterpreted it..

[8Ball]

Wrong. Anyone that reads that can see you wrote those words as you meant them.

"Bron's better"

[RRR3]

3ball has been quite defanged since that old screenshot of him speculating LeBron could be the best ever (in 2013 no less) popped up.

[8Ball]

it makes no sense because that's the altered part..
it's clear they cut and pasted in that post because the first sentence has nothing to do with the 2nd - they altered that post and the others.. That's how mad I make you guys and it was worse for them because they really think they're smart

I'm going to sue them over it


That's me describing what Seadood was thinking - i.e. his recency bias after 20 years of Jordan not playing ("Bron's better, he crushed it last night", aka recency bias)..



So first you say they altered the post.

Now you say you did in fact write that sentence.

Busted.

[Shogon]

Lebron is a lot smarter and better than westbrick but it is true if Russell played with Wade, AD, Bosh, Love, Kyrie, etc. in a pathetic conference he'd have a couple rings. Lebron is two shots he didn't make away from 2/10. And on the flip side when he loses its by tidal wave.

Hey dipshit... Kobe is like 3 or 4 shots away from 2 for 7...

Teams win championships, not individuals.

2002 the Lakers win because the refs rigged the series against the Kings and because Horry bailed Shaq & Kobe out after they both missed shots. Although I guess technically this could make him 2 for 6 because it wouldn't even be a finals appearance. lol.

2009 the Lakers win because the Magic choked a layup in one game and four consecutive free throws, extremely extremely close games. Fisher hits dagger 3 (not Kobe) to bury the Magic in another. This series so very easily could have gone the other way. SVG absolutely panics his brains out by bringing Jameer Nelson back when the Magic were steamrolling everyone and it totally threw them off defensively and offensively because Jameer was trash AND hurt.

2010 Artest hits a 3 in a 3 point game game 7 with 1 minute left that Kobe couldn't score a bucket. Series very easily could have gone the other way.

Teams win championships, not individuals, anyone who says otherwise is a moron.

The only arguable exception in basketball history is Bill Russell because he went 11 of 13 as a pro, 2 for 2 in college and 2 for 2 in HS, lol.

[tpols]

The only championship that Kobes team won that was close was 2010.

2009 could've been close if Courtney lee could make a shot but that was early in the series and it ended in 5. So it wasn't anywhere near do or die.

Ray Allen hit the biggest do or die shot in basketball history. It was the most binary situation in sports history. He makes, they live... he misses? They die.

Ditto Kyrie series winning game 7 dagger with Lebron huddled in the corner.

And then you have 2007, 2011, 2014, 2017, 2018 etc. where his teams get ragdolled.

Lebrons Finals record is 20-33. With the two biggest blowouts in Finals history of all time ~ 2014 & 2018.

He mostly loses even with super teams.....

What do you think about that champ?

[8Ball]

The only championship that Kobes team won that was close was 2010.

2009 could've been close if Courtney lee could make a shot but that was early in the series and it ended in 5. So it wasn't anywhere near do or die.

Ray Allen hit the biggest do or die shot in basketball history. It was the most binary situation in sports history. He makes, they live... he misses? They die.

Ditto Kyrie series winning game 7 dagger with Lebron huddled in the corner.

And then you have 2007, 2011, 2014, 2017, 2018 etc. where his teams get ragdolled.

Lebrons Finals record is 20-33. With the two biggest blowouts in Finals history of all time ~ 2014 & 2018.

He mostly loses even with super teams.....

What do you think about that champ?

There was still time to get an offensive rebound + another 3 if Ray Allen missed. So it wasn't a do or die shot.

Cavs won the game vs the Warriors by 4 points. Kyrie got 3 of those points, and LeBron 1. So if Kyrie didn't hit that shot Lebron's 1 point still puts them over. Kyrie hits that shot with over 1 minute left to go.


Kobe's 2002 Game 6 vs Sacramento was literally a rigged game.


All of the above are straight facts.

[SouBeachTalents]

The only championship that Kobes team won that was close was 2010.

2009 could've been close if Courtney lee could make a shot but that was early in the series and it ended in 5. So it wasn't anywhere near do or die.

Ray Allen hit the biggest do or die shot in basketball history. It was the most binary situation in sports history. He makes, they live... he misses? They die.

Ditto Kyrie series winning game 7 dagger with Lebron huddled in the corner.

And then you have 2007, 2011, 2014, 2017, 2018 etc. where his teams get ragdolled.

Lebrons Finals record is 20-33. With the two biggest blowouts in Finals history of all time ~ 2014 & 2018.

He mostly loses even with super teams.....

What do you think about that champ?
Yeah, 2000 & 2002 were pretty close too :lol It took a historic collapse by Portland in Game 7, then Kobe got outscored 38-16 in the Finals by Shaq. Then 2002 Horry saved the season before the most infamously rigged game in sports history saved it again.

I find it ironic you're so fixated on Ray/Kyrie when Kobe's teammates were hitting the biggest shots in the playoffs literally every time instead of him. Horry vs. the Kings, Fisher vs. the Spurs & Magic, Pau vs. the Thunder, and Artest vs. the Suns & Celtics. On half of those occasions, Kobe's brick was turned into a GW :lol

And speaking of ragdolled, that applies to Kobe in 2004, 2007, 2011 & 2012. And unlike your examples Kobe was the HUGE favorite and had HCA in half those series.

And what does it tell you that despite Kobe's superior Finals record, LeBron has double the FMVP's.

[8Ball]

Yeah, 2000 & 2002 were pretty close too :lol It took a historic collapse by Portland in Game 7, then Kobe got outscored 38-16 in the Finals by Shaq. Then 2002 Horry saved the season before the most infamously rigged game in sports history saved it again.

I find it ironic you're so fixated on Ray/Kyrie when Kobe's teammates were hitting the biggest shots in the playoffs literally every time instead of him. Horry vs. the Kings, Fisher vs. the Spurs & Magic, Pau vs. the Thunder, and Artest vs. the Suns & Celtics. On half of those occasions, Kobe's brick was turned into a GW :lol

And speaking of ragdolled, that applies to Kobe in 2004, 2007, 2011 & 2012. And unlike your examples Kobe was the HUGE favorite and had HCA in half those series.

And what does it tell you that despite Kobe's superior Finals record, LeBron has double the FMVP's.

Does Kobe have a finals shot as iconic as LeBron game 7 shot over Kawhi?

[Spurs m8]

Always said this....Westbron is real

[3ba11]

So first you say they altered the post.

Now you say you did in fact write that sentence.

Busted.


After 8 years, I had forgotten what happened too and was fooled like everyone else.

I only realized what happened the other day when I actually sat down and read the posts closely. This triggered the memory of that conversation. We were posting back and forth in a stream of consciousness way and I was explaining to Seadood how his thought process was recency bias (Lebron crushed it last night so he's better than MJ).... Oh shit I just did it again, so you might hold this against me in 8 years

[ShawkFactory]

The only championship that Kobes team won that was close was 2010.

2009 could've been close if Courtney lee could make a shot but that was early in the series and it ended in 5. So it wasn't anywhere near do or die.

Ray Allen hit the biggest do or die shot in basketball history. It was the most binary situation in sports history. He makes, they live... he misses? They die.

Ditto Kyrie series winning game 7 dagger with Lebron huddled in the corner.

And then you have 2007, 2011, 2014, 2017, 2018 etc. where his teams get ragdolled.

Lebrons Finals record is 20-33. With the two biggest blowouts in Finals history of all time ~ 2014 & 2018.

He mostly loses even with super teams.....

What do you think about that champ?

Lol no.

I don't think you know what ditto means buddy.

[j3lademaster]

Lol no.

I don't think you know what ditto means buddy.He's saying the Kyrie shot and the Ray Allen shot he mentioned before that were similar examples to drive home the same point. It's used correctly, though it hardly matters since it's not even a real word.

[ShawkFactory]

He's saying the Kyrie shot and the Ray Allen shot he mentioned before that were similar examples to drive home the same point. It's used correctly, though it hardly matters since it's not even a real word.

It’s not used correctly. The Ray Allen shot was discussed as a binary event outcome wise. The Kyrie shot was not that.

The only way ditto is used correctly there is to discuss how we’ll ignore context and just hate Lebron James

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs

Playing the "westbrook" style of ball-dominance and making all the plays mostly loses regardless of height, efficiency, cast, coach or odds.

Lebron/Westbrook-ball mostly loses because it puts a lower ceiling on the strategy/ball movement and caliber of team offense, which limits overall team ceiling/Finals record.

[Wally450]

.
Thread Cliffs

Playing the "westbrook" style of ball-dominance and making all the plays mostly loses regardless of height, efficiency, cast, coach or odds.

Lebron/Westbrook-ball mostly loses because it puts a lower ceiling on the strategy/ball movement and caliber of team offense, which limits overall team ceiling/Finals record.

4 FMVPs...

[3ba11]

4 FMVPs...


But the absolute lowest ring quality:



[ x ] super-teams

[ x ] 1b sidekicks

[ x ] teammate bailouts (2)

[ x ] super-team in conference that 1-star teams were winning like Dwight, aka free pass to Finals

[RRR3]

LeBron abused OP’s hero Kobe 16-6 head to head.

[Wally450]

But the absolute lowest ring quality:



[ x ] super-teams

[ x ] 1b sidekicks

[ x ] teammate bailouts (2)

[ x ] free pass to Finals via super-team in conference that 1-star teams were winning (Dwight, Kidd, AI, Butler, Kawhi, Giannis)


[ x ] expansion teams

[ x ] Pippen

[Axe]

4 FMVPs...
He also won his fourth first while boston still couldn't win a conference finals series in the last five years.

[3ba11]

[ x ] expansion teams

[ x ] Pippen


[ X ] If Pippen destroyed MVP Malone or Barkley in the Finals, that would bring Jordan's ring quality down to Lebron's 2016 ring (when Kyrie destroyed MVP Curry).. But Pippen was a bum and never dominated.

[ X ] Expansion helped all teams so that cancels out

[ X ] Lebron's teams had 3 perennial all-stars (super-team), so he only faced a talent deficit against the KD Warriors.. Otoh, the 93' Suns, 96' Sonics and 91' Lakers had more all-stars than the Bulls, so MJ overcame actual talent deficits to win titles