How would Lebron's legacy be viewed nowadays had he lost in 2013 and 2016?

[coastalmarker99]

While Lebron did win those rings and they are rightfully so a massive part of his legacy.



I was just wondering how fans and the Media would view him if nowadays he had only two rings and a 2 and 8 record in the NBA finals.






People do forget due to the Heat winning the 2013 finals.



That Lebron only averaged 16 PPG on 39% thru the first 3 games of the 2013 finals and 23 PPG on 43% thru the first six games.



Before he exploded in game seven with an all-time great performance.



If Ray Allen does not hit that miracle shot at end of game six.


I think people and the media would judge Lebron harshly for underperforming in the 2013 finals and losing with HCA as well.




In the 2016 finals, people forget due to the Cavs winning the 2016 finals and Lebron's incredible play from games 5 to 7


That Lebron was being passive and underperforming throughout the first 4 games.



Lebron was even getting mocked for stat padding at the end of game 4 of those finals.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2016/06/11/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-game-4-warriors-3-1/85740100/



If Green does not get suspended and the Warriors close out the 2016 finals in 5 games



I think people and the media would judge Lebron harshly for being too passive in the 2016 finals throughout the first 4 games.

[warriorfan]

Check out LeBron’s splits from the first 4 games and then the last 3 after Dray was suspended, Iguodala’s back went out on him, and Bogut’s knee got taken out by JR Smith.

[coastalmarker99]

Check out LeBron’s splits from the first 4 games and then the last 3 after Dray was suspended, Iguodala’s back went out on him, and Bogut’s knee got taken out by JR Smith.

LeBron James’ line in the boxscore looks good: 25 points on 11-of-21 shooting, 13 rebounds, nine assists and three blocked shots

But his statistics were empty calories, especially when you include his seven turnovers. There wasn’t enough nourishment in those numbers.

The Cavaliers needed more from James, they didn’t get it, and Golden State won Game 4 of the 2016 NBA Finals 108-97 on Friday.



He had only seven points in the first half and scored seven points in the final 72 seconds when the Cavs scrambled to eliminate an eight-point deficit.


Inside the restricted area at the rim in game 4


Lebron made 9-of-13 shots.



Outside of it, he was just 2-of-8.


When he’s not making threes and mid-range shots, it makes it easier on Golden State’s defence.




https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2016/06/11/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-game-4-warriors-3-1/85740100/

[3ba11]

Check out LeBron’s splits from the first 4 games and then the last 3 after Dray was suspended, Iguodala’s back went out on him, and Bogut’s knee got taken out by JR Smith.


The splits in 2013 look the same - horrific until a teammate saves him (2013) or there's a suspension/injuries (2016)

[coastalmarker99]

Looking at the media reports at the time of the 2016 finals and 2013 finals.



Shows that Lebron would have faced a ****ton of criticism had he ended up on the losing side of those two finals.





Biggest Reasons LeBron James Is Struggling in the 2013 NBA Finals


As the Miami Heat forward struggles in the 2013 NBA Finals, some of the narratives from that 2011 series against Dallas have resurfaced—narratives that most believed he had already overcome.

Is he shrinking in the moment, as the Spurs have taken a 2-1 series lead?

Or just overthinking?

Clearly, something is amiss.


LeBron didn't score fewer than 20 points in any of the first 33 games of the 2012-13 regular season.


He's now scored fewer in each of the three games of this series. He isn't getting to the rim (no free throws in Game 3) and he isn't making his jumper.

He has appeared hesitant rather than dominant.

He's been outscored by his former Cleveland Cavaliers practice victim, Danny Green, who is saying things like this:

He's kind of stopped himself out there and we're getting a little lucky.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1670541-biggest-reasons-lebron-james-is-struggling-in-the-2013-finals




NBA Finals: Miami Heat’s LeBron James is pointing fingers — at himself



Through three games of the NBA Finals, LeBron James is averaging 16.3 points a game on 38.9 percent shooting — the best player on the planet has looked average (well, for him).

And passive. In Game 3 Tuesday night with the Spurs packing the paint and having defenders playing a step off him in isolation, LeBron settled for the jumpshots the Spurs wanted him to take.


Credit Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green for being at the point of a good Spurs defense, but LeBron didn’t challenge that defense.


The result was an ugly 7-of-21 shooting night with zero free throw attempts.


And an embarrassing Heat loss that in part flowed out of that.

“Well, honestly I just have to play better,” an upfront James said after the game. “


I can’t have a performance like tonight and expect to win. I’ve got to shoot the ball better, make better decisions


and I will get into the film and see ways that I can do that. I’m not putting blame on anybody, I’m owning everything that I did tonight


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/nba-finals-miami-heats-lebron-james-is-pointing-fingers--at-himself/2013/06/12/27a782ce-d3af-11e2-8cbe-1bcbee06f8f8_story.html

[warriorfan]

LeBron James’ line in the boxscore looks good: 25 points on 11-of-21 shooting, 13 rebounds, nine assists and three blocked shots

But his statistics were empty calories, especially when you include his seven turnovers. There wasn’t enough nourishment in those numbers.

The Cavaliers needed more from James, they didn’t get it, and Golden State won Game 4 of the 2016 NBA Finals 108-97 on Friday.



He had only seven points in the first half and scored seven points in the final 72 seconds when the Cavs scrambled to eliminate an eight-point deficit.


Inside the restricted area at the rim in game 4


Lebron made 9-of-13 shots.



Outside of it, he was just 2-of-8.


When he’s not making threes and mid-range shots, it makes it easier on Golden State’s defence.

Yup. It wasn’t getting it done. Green being out and Iguodala hobbled allowed LeBron to get into the paint with ease. No Bogut and there was no one to even contest once he got there. It was easy pickings and lebron had a feast. The name of the game for all of those Finals was just keep LeBron out of the paint. Easier said than done but when they were able to do it he shot Allen Iverson type percentages.

[3ba11]

Looking at the media reports at the time of the 2016 finals and 2013 finals.



Shows that Lebron would have faced a ****ton of criticism had he ended up on the losing side of those two finals.





Biggest Reasons LeBron James Is Struggling in the 2013 NBA Finals


As the Miami Heat forward struggles in the 2013 NBA Finals, some of the narratives from that 2011 series against Dallas have resurfaced—narratives that most believed he had already overcome.

Is he shrinking in the moment, as the Spurs have taken a 2-1 series lead?

Or just overthinking?

Clearly, something is amiss.


LeBron didn't score fewer than 20 points in any of the first 33 games of the 2012-13 regular season.


He's now scored fewer in each of the three games of this series. He isn't getting to the rim (no free throws in Game 3) and he isn't making his jumper.

He has appeared hesitant rather than dominant.

He's been outscored by his former Cleveland Cavaliers practice victim, Danny Green, who is saying things like this:

He's kind of stopped himself out there and we're getting a little lucky.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1670541-biggest-reasons-lebron-james-is-struggling-in-the-2013-finals


Lebron had a 0 plus/minus in that series and a negative net rating, so the Heat didn't win with him on the floor..

Teammates staved off an 0-3 deficit while Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games, while his 23 on 43% was insufficient through 6 games and needed Ray to forced Game 7.. Simply put - Lebron sucked in the 2013 Finals, at least by the "jordan" standard... none of lebron's Finals compare because he only averaged 2-6 more than his sidekick each Finals win (shared load), compared to 10-20 for Jordan (carry-job).

Btw, SB Nation wrote a legendary article during the 2013 Finals the detailed how the Spurs were exploiting the bad fit between Wade/Lebron... The Spurs were helping off one guy when the other drove, thus forcing them to pass to each other for spot-ups (their weakness).. They perfected this strategy in 2014 and blew the Heat away... The bad fit between Lebron/Wade = skill deficit.. This skill deficit (no off-ball, no elite jumpshooting skill) allows teams like the Spurs to exploit it, which is why MJ was far superior (his on-ball/off-ball game fit with everyone leaving no room to exploit).

[coastalmarker99]

I do think had Lebron lost in 2013 and 2016 that he would be viewed by both fans and media as the modern-day version of Wilt Chamberlain.


Regardless of whether it is unfair or not.



Lebron without winning in 2013 and 2016



Would have

Many NBA records

Elite stats

2 rings

2 final Mvps

4 Mvp's




To Wilt's

Countless records

Elite stats

2 rings

2 final MVP's

4 Mvp's

[3ba11]

I do think had Lebron lost in 2013 and 2016 that he would be viewed as the modern-day version of Wilt Chamberlain.




Lebron would have

Many NBA records

2 rings

2 final Mvps

4 Mvp's




To Wilt's

250 records

2 rings

2 final MVP's

4 Mvp's


Lebron is the biggest Finals loser in 3-pointer history, so he's already viewed as the modern day Wilt outside the tiny slice of the population that is the media

That's why Curry is a fraud - he had the weakest Finals comp ever (lebron)

[Axe]

Avoiding the 70+ win warriors team in winning the finals was also one of the greatest things that ever happened in the last ten years. Until now, can't believe it still makes dub stans cry these days.

[3ba11]

Avoiding the 70+ win warriors team in winning the finals was also one of the greatest things that ever happened in the last ten years. Until now, can't believe it still makes dub stans cry these days.


Kyrie destroying MVP Curry is like Pippen destroying MVP Barkley or Malone, so Lebron shouldn't get "jordan" credit for winning the 16' Finals - Lebron never carried a team to a title like Jordan because Lebron never carried the scoring load in any Finals win

[coastalmarker99]

I do think Wilt and Lebron would be getting compared nonstop nowadays had LeBron lost in 2013 and 2016.


As look at these media articles down below



Are the Warriors turning LeBron James into Wilt Chamberlain — big stat lines and heartbreaks?


https://theundefeated.com/features/warriors-turning-lebron-james-into-wilt-chamberlain-2018-nba-finals/



Colin Cowherd: LeBron James is the modern-day Wilt Chamberlain



https://sports.yahoo.com/colin-cowherd-lebron-james-modern-192933814.html



Is LeBron James the Modern Wilt Chamberlain?

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2016/06/is-lebron-james-modern-wilt-chamberlain.html



Chris Broussard - Wilt Chamberlain is a Good Comparison for LeBron James



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfQokYsvaVg

[Axe]

Kyrie destroying MVP Curry is like Pippen destroying MVP Barkley or Malone, so Lebron shouldn't get "jordan" credit for winning the 16' Finals - Lebron never carried a team to a title like Jordan because Lebron never carried the scoring load in any Finals win
Yet he faced tougher competition and won it regardless. Don't be an absolute retard.

[3ba11]

Yet he faced tougher competition and won it regardless. Don't be an absolute retard.


Lebron had the only super-teams from 2011-2016, yet only won 3 times - he literally hand-picked the preseason favorite each year from 11-16'

then he lost by near-record amount in 2017 when it was finally a fair fight (super-team vs super-team).. only kyrie's 40 point game in Game 3 saved Lebron from another record loss.. a great player like kyrie can always win a game by himself.. sigh

ultimately, lebron's super-teams from 11-16' were so unfair, that KD had to join curry/klay to supercede them

[iamgine]

While Lebron did win those rings and they are rightfully so a massive part of his legacy.



I was just wondering how fans and the Media would view him if nowadays he had only two rings and a 2 and 8 record in the NBA finals.






People do forget due to the Heat winning the 2013 finals.



That Lebron only averaged 16 PPG on 39% thru the first 3 games of the 2013 finals and 23 PPG on 43% thru the first six games.



Before he exploded in game seven with an all-time great performance.



If Ray Allen does not hit that miracle shot at end of game six.


I think people and the media would judge Lebron harshly for underperforming in the 2013 finals and losing with HCA as well.




In the 2016 finals, people forget due to the Cavs winning the 2016 finals and Lebron's incredible play from games 5 to 7


That Lebron was being passive and underperforming throughout the first 4 games.



Lebron was even getting mocked for stat padding at the end of game 4 of those finals.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/playoffs/2016/06/11/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-game-4-warriors-3-1/85740100/



If Green does not get suspended and the Warriors close out the 2016 finals in 5 games



I think people and the media would judge Lebron harshly for being too passive in the 2016 finals throughout the first 4 games.
Of course he would be judged harshly.

I think a lot of those were by design though. This was their gameplan and Spo adjusted every game. Sometimes the results were good, sometimes not.

[Spurs m8]

From top 20 to out of top 20.

Would be even harder to demand that respect that he still can't get

[8Ball]

Meaningless since it never happened.

Go create a thread about how Jordan's legacy would look like if he lost to the Pacers in 98 or lost to New York in 92.

He would go from #2 all time to 3 or 4 behind Duncan and Kareem.