If Lebron somehow gets to six rings in the next couple of years would he be the GOAT

[coastalmarker99]

Let's say that Lebron as Kareem did wins two more rings and two more finals MVP's into his late 30's and early 40's.

Would that be enough to make him the GOAT over Jordan in most people's eyes?

Lebron in this hypothetical situation would end up with for his career

6 rings

6 FMVP's

40k points

10 k assists

10 k rebounds

To go along with all of his playoff records and longevity records

[coastalmarker99]

I think along with having 6 rings and all of the longevity records.





That people could make the case in the future when arguing Lebron as the Goat.



That Lebron beat far superior teams en route to his six titles.



As The Warriors and Spurs along with the Nets and Clippers are better than any team MJ went up against in the 1990’s

[StrongLurk]

The one question you need to ask yourself is this.

Has there been ANYONE who was a better basketball player during their prime/peak than MJ during his prime/peak?

In my opinion, it's too late in Lebron's career to legitimately change your mind on whether he is better than MJ or not. He's either already the GOAT or Co-GOAT with MJ, or not.

[coastalmarker99]

The one question you need to ask yourself is this.

Has there been ANYONE who was a better basketball player during their prime/peak than MJ during his prime/peak?

In my opinion, it's too late in Lebron's career to legitimately change your mind on whether he is better than MJ or not. He's either already the GOAT or Co-GOAT with MJ, or not.


I would say Wilt was just a better basketball player during his peak than Mj was during his.


Wilt Chamberlain Statistics (1959-1966)

Points: 39.6

Rebounds: 24.8

Assists: 3.4

FG% 51%

Blocks: 10.3* (based off 28 games of available data)



Wilt Chamberlain playoff Statistics (1959-1966)

Points: 33.0

Rebounds: 26.3

Assists 3.0

FG% 51%

Blocks: 11.5*(based off 13 games of available data.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Nope. You have to be an elite shooter in order to be the GOAT.

Not being an elite shooter is like being a quarterback in NFL that can't pass and just runs.

The only guys who qualify for goat are Jordan and Kawhi if he can stay healthy through out his 30's.

[Spurs m8]

Well no.

His peak wasn't as good as Jordans, so he was literally never as good as a basketball player

There would be too many asterisk rings and collusions in there too.

This guy can literally never be GOAT.

it is what it is

[SATAN]

He already is the goat.

[SouBeachTalents]

Let's say he wins 2 rings averaging 20/7/7 with AD leading the way, yes, it'd be very impressive to do that at his age, but would those seasons really hold more weight than years like '09, '10, '17, '18 etc? This is why I despise ranking based on rings. Just look at Kareem, he wasn't even one of the Lakers 2 best players for his 5th, and was a legit role player for his 6th.

Imo, you either already have LeBron as GOAT now or you never will, what he does in his late 30's shouldn't have any bearing on that, we've already seen him at his best for a very prolonged period of time.

[warriorfan]

Goat talk ended after the decision and 2011

[Full Court]

I don't think so. The GOAT ship has sailed for Lebron. Even if he stays in the NBA for 30 years and gets 7 rings, he's still had multiple egregious choke jobs. MJ never had a massive finals choke. Lebron has more than one of them. The Lebron nutthuggers will come back with "but but but 1-9!" but Jordan was dropping 63 on the Celtics during that 1-9 and carrying a terrible team to the playoffs - not choking.

[Full Court]

Goat talk ended after the decision and 2011

Yep, exactly. After 2011, he shouldn't be in any intelligent person's GOAT conversation. The key word there is "intelligent."

[coastalmarker99]

The fact of the matter is the late 80's-late 90's were badly watered down by expansion. Strength of competition is paramount.

From 1991-1998, the league had 10 teams with a (overall) winning percentage under .400. Including 4 teams under a .316 winning percentage, overall.

From 2004-2021, the league had 2 teams with an overall winning percentage under .400, with the worst team having an overall .379 winning percentage (Minnesota).

[coastalmarker99]

Chicago Bulls stats against those 10 teams under .40.0 (1991-1998): 156-32 (.83.0)

Weak league. Very weak.

[3ba11]

Let's say that Lebron as Kareem did wins two more rings and two more finals MVP's into his late 30's and early 40's.

Would that be enough to make him the GOAT over Jordan in most people's eyes?

Lebron in this hypothetical situation would end up with for his career

6 rings

6 FMVP's

40k points

10 k assists

10 k rebounds

To go along with all of his playoff records and longevity records


Everyone knows the Finals appearances were manufactured by forming super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning

Ultimately, rings with super-teams and 1b's are the lowest quality rings and that's all Lebron has - he never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer

[kawhileonard2]

No

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492941-1-Title-in-11-Years-for-the-Franchise-that-you-originally-played-for

He won 1 title for the franchise that drafted him. Steph, Dirk, Kawhi, Isiah did better than that. You need to turn an organization that never won into a dynasty like MJ, Russell, Hakeem, Duncan.

[SouBeachTalents]

Everyone knows the Finals appearances were manufactured by forming super-teams in a conference that 1-star teams were winning

Ultimately, rings with super-teams and 1b's are the lowest quality rings and that's all Lebron has - he never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer
You can repeat it all you'd like, but claiming LeBron never won as the clear top producer sadly won't make it true. Let's see you try to squirm your way into claiming he wasn't the clear top producer on the Miami title teams, go copy and paste some shit from 2014 :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

No

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492941-1-Title-in-11-Years-for-the-Franchise-that-you-originally-played-for

He won 1 title for the franchise that drafted him. Steph, Dirk, Kawhi, Isiah did better than that. You need to turn an organization that never won into a dynasty like MJ, Russell, Hakeem, Duncan.
Dirk & Kawhi won more than 1 title with their original franchise? Sometimes I'm not so sure your retarded posting is legitimately an act :lol

[3ba11]

You can repeat it all you'd like, but claiming LeBron never won as the clear top producer sadly won't make it true. Let's see you try to squirm your way into claiming he wasn't the clear top producer on the Miami title teams, go copy and paste some shit from 2014 :lol


He had super-teams in MIA/CLE and wasn't the clear-cut top producer in LA - so he never won without super-teams as the clear-cut top producer

[Spurs m8]

Once again...his peak as a basketball player was never as good as Jordan.

So that speaks volumes.

Add to that the collusions and many many failures even with collusion...

All he has is longevity stats from stat padding...thats not impressive if you're sacrificing wins for empty stats.

Also has the most turnovers in history...literally.

Also most playoff turnovers

And most miss shots in the playoffs.

How on earth would anyone come to the conclusion he is the GOAT lmao

It's literally nothing but a manufactured narrative that low iq fans have bought in too

[SouBeachTalents]

Once again...his peak as a basketball player was never as good as Jordan.

So that speaks volumes.

Add to that the collusions and many many failures even with collusion...

All he has is longevity stats from stat padding...thats not impressive if you're sacrificing wins for empty stats.

Also has the most turnovers in history...literally.

Also most playoff turnovers

And most miss shots in the playoffs.

How on earth would anyone come to the conclusion he is the GOAT lmao

It's literally nothing but a manufactured narrative that low iq fans have bought in too
I love how holding several records is written off as "longevity stats from stat padding". but leading in turnovers and missed shots isn't held to that same standard, those are evidently legitimate proof of flaws and weaknesses in his game :lol Tom Brady's the all time leader in playoff interceptions, guess that's indicative of deficiencies in his game as well

[HylianNightmare]

Not for me but I would definitely not argue it as hard as people claiming goat now

[Sulico]

Yes, he would be, and there would be no real arguments against that, only emotional ones.

[Manny98]

LeBron is already in my tier 1 alongside MJ and Kareem there is no undisputed GOAT in my eyes because there's too many variables and criteria and the fact that they played in completely different eras

[Bronbron23]

Let's say that Lebron as Kareem did wins two more rings and two more finals MVP's into his late 30's and early 40's.

Would that be enough to make him the GOAT over Jordan in most people's eyes?

Lebron in this hypothetical situation would end up with for his career

6 rings

6 FMVP's

40k points

10 k assists

10 k rebounds

To go along with all of his playoff records and longevity records

I'd say it would because of his overall career achievements but i wouldn't think he was better than mj. It would have took him way longer and multiple collusions to catch or pass mj but at the end of the day it's about their total career achievements so it be hard to argue. He'd have get fmvp or at least make it close. If ad played significantly better and won fmvp both times it would be more questionable.

[LeCola]

Not GOAT but he can be a top 5 player.

[dankok8]

I predicted 6 months ago that Lebron would finish his career with 6-7 rings and 5 FMVP's. I still think that's kind of likely to happen although a bit less likely considering I totally expected the Lakers to repeat in 2021.

His GOAT case will be kind of like a slightly stronger Kareem case because he will pass him in total points but few are picking Kareem over Jordan so I don't think Lebron ever gets a place where he's the frontrunner for GOAT. But hey it could happen. Modern athletes are pushing boundaries of what's possible. Could Lebron put up 25/7/7 at age 42? With load management and playing on a talented team where he can take time off in the regular season, I wouldn't completely rule it out.

[TheMan]

This thread so far has little trolling from the usual suspects so I will treat the OP''s post with as much unbias as I can. Would LeBron achieving what the OP wrote put him as GOAT? It would be fair to say that yes, he would have an argument on achievements alone, will that actually happen? It can but it's also possible it won't, LeBron has already shown the wear and tear of his nearly two decades of NBA basketball plus the extra mileage from long playoffs runs so it's also entirely possible that he might suffer a late career ending injury, the body just naturally breaks down due to age, and he isn't immune to it anymore, as we saw last season. So the chances of what OP wrote happening are also equally likely not to ever happen.

In my book, there are tiers in GOAT candidates, and LeBron, just like KAJ because of his long career achievements, is approaching that tier...but in all honesty, I can't really opine if Wilt and KAJ were better than MJ or not since I didn't watch their prime, only KAJ I remember is the late 80s slow plodding always last to get to the Lakers half court sets version. I can't judge a player by his past his prime version and I obviously never saw Wilt, so I'm always hesitant to argue against him or KAJ, we can only go by what they did in their era. I was fortunate enough to have watched most or all of MJ's, Magic's, Bird's, Hakeem's, Shaq's, Kobe's, Duncan's and LeBron's prime. Jordan was just a different breed...closest guy I saw coming close to MJ's sheer dominanace over the league at their peak was Shaq, to a lesser extent, Hakeem, Bird and Magic. MJ had an air of invincibility that only Shaq was able to replicate in the early 2000s, a feeling that no matter what you did, they were gonna win. LeBron never had that, the only time he did for a tiny bit was the back to back chips but before that, he had the worst NBA Finals performance drop off in production from a GOAT tier candidate and ended that run with the wrost beatdown in NBA Finals history in points differential up that point (he later broke his own record).

So no, I cannot see LBJ as the clear cut GOAT, I saw the best version of LeBron we will ever see and MJ was just the clearly better player. MJ is the best player I've seen since I started really paying attention to NBA hoops since the mid to late 80s onward. Perhaps I might see someone better someday but that hasn't happened yet.

[RRR3]

Like SouBeach said either you have LeBron as GOAT already or you don’t. Not sure what him doing clearly past his prime is going to prove.

[Manny98]

This thread so far has little trolling from the usual suspects so I will treat the OP''s post with as much unbias as I can. Would LeBron achieving what the OP wrote put him as GOAT? It would be fair to say that yes, he would have an argument on achievements alone, will that actually happen? It can but it's also possible it won't, LeBron has already shown the wear and tear of his nearly two decades of NBA basketball plus the extra mileage from long playoffs runs so it's also entirely possible that he might suffer a late career ending injury, the body just naturally breaks down due to age, and he isn't immune to it anymore, as we saw last season. So the chances of what OP wrote happening are also equally likely not to ever happen.

In my book, there are tiers in GOAT candidates, and LeBron, just like KAJ because of his long career achievements, is approaching that tier...but in all honesty, I can't really opine if Wilt and KAJ were better than MJ or not since I didn't watch their prime, only KAJ I remember is the late 80s slow plodding always last to get to the Lakers half court sets version. I can't judge a player by his past his prime version and I obviously never saw Wilt, so I'm always hesitant to argue against him or KAJ, we can only go by what they did in their era. I was fortunate enough to have watched most or all of MJ's, Magic's, Bird's, Hakeem's, Shaq's, Kobe's, Duncan's and LeBron's prime. Jordan was just a different breed...closest guy I saw coming close to MJ's sheer dominanace over the league at their peak was Shaq, to a lesser extent, Hakeem, Bird and Magic. MJ had an air of invincibility that only Shaq was able to replicate in the early 2000s, a feeling that no matter what you did, they were gonna win. LeBron never had that, the only time he did for a tiny bit was the back to back chips but before that, he had the worst NBA Finals performance drop off in production from a GOAT tier candidate and ended that run with the wrost beatdown in NBA Finals history in points differential up that point (he later broke his own record).

So no, I cannot see LBJ as the clear cut GOAT, I saw the best version of LeBron we will ever see and MJ was just the clearly better player. MJ is the best player I've seen since I started really paying attention to NBA hoops since the mid to late 80s onward. Perhaps I might see someone better someday but that hasn't happened yet.
MJ is not "Clearly" better than LeBron or Kareem, stop with the gawking

[Full Court]

MJ had an air of invincibility that only Shaq was able to replicate in the early 2000s, a feeling that no matter what you did, they were gonna win. LeBron never had that

Exactly. This is an intangible that you can't get from looking at stats and that today's generation just doesn't understand.

Lebron never could and never will have that aura of invincibility, because he's been trounced too many times.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Don't see Bron winning more than 1 ring, which would put him at 5.

But yes, going by that hypothetical, he would have a similar case like Kareem.

What makes Mike the 'favorite' GOAT candidate, is better peak and prime play. He had the least flaws if you're using the eye test. And if numbers are your thing, MJ had the best production in the playoffs and finals.

[SaintzFury13]

The one question you need to ask yourself is this.

Has there been ANYONE who was a better basketball player during their prime/peak than MJ during his prime/peak?

You can definitely argue that LeBron was.

[SouBeachTalents]

I predicted 6 months ago that Lebron would finish his career with 6-7 rings and 5 FMVP's. I still think that's kind of likely to happen although a bit less likely considering I totally expected the Lakers to repeat in 2021.

His GOAT case will be kind of like a slightly stronger Kareem case because he will pass him in total points but few are picking Kareem over Jordan so I don't think Lebron ever gets a place where he's the frontrunner for GOAT. But hey it could happen. Modern athletes are pushing boundaries of what's possible. Could Lebron put up 25/7/7 at age 42? With load management and playing on a talented team where he can take time off in the regular season, I wouldn't completely rule it out.
You expect him to win 3 more titles in his late 30's-40's? That's ridiculous :lol Only Kareem was able to do that and AD is not quite Magic

[lakerstekkenn]

Let's say that Lebron as Kareem did wins two more rings and two more finals MVP's into his late 30's and early 40's.

Would that be enough to make him the GOAT over Jordan in most people's eyes?

Lebron in this hypothetical situation would end up with for his career

6 rings

6 FMVP's

40k points

10 k assists

10 k rebounds

To go along with all of his playoff records and longevity records


Nope, not even close.

Because he will just jump on already made championship teams and be a bench roll player like others late in their career he won't be like Dennis Rodman still can play but will play a John Sally role with the Lakers in their 2000 year championship run.

So it won't matter anyway even if this new Lakers team grabs two more rings James won't be a big factor anyway Russell and Davis would be the ones taking on the load of scoring and carrying James.

I think this team can only get one more championship then they are done because the young players time are coming like Giannis winning multiple championships and other teams.

[TheMan]

MJ is not "Clearly" better than LeBron or Kareem, stop with the gawking

That's my opinion, bro. I saw both their primes, and that's my take, which is more informed than yours only because I saw both, you didn't, same way I don't argue with older heads who saw prime KAJ or Wilt and believe they are the GOAT. And it's not gawking either.

[ELITEpower23]

If the GOAT gets even more accolades will he remain as the GOAT? Yes he will.

[Bawkish]

A Wilt fanboy saying 90s is a weak & watered down era?

Bruh

[Axe]

MJ is not "Clearly" better than LeBron or Kareem, stop with the gawking
But kd is? Hmm? :ohwell:

[Bronbron23]

MJ is not "Clearly" better than LeBron or Kareem, stop with the gawking

I agree. I personally think mj is better than bron but it's close and i never saw kareem play so i really can't comment on that.

[bullettooth]

Every year it's the same story; if he wins this year... is he goat?

If you have to ask the question this many times after so many years... HES NOT THE GOAT.

[FKAri]

I agree. I personally think mj is better than bron but it's close and i never saw kareem play so i really can't comment on that.

Depends how you define close. MJ was clearly better in his prime imo.

[Bronbron23]

Depends how you define close. MJ was clearly better in his prime imo.

Yeah i agree but it's close in terms of pretty much everything. Chips, fmvps, stats, accolades ect. He also has passed mj in some things like career totals in pretty much everything including scoring. Career totals aren't as important to me as others but for those who place importance on it it's a reasonable reason why bron is better. I just disagree is all. Dosn't mean it's not a decent argument

[bizil]

On a peak level, MJ is superior to Bron. BUT GOAT wise, Bron could eventually take that crown from MJ. DEPENDING on how he ends his career. This upcoming season, Bron is gonna get to 10,000 assists. NO PLAYER has 20,000 points and 10,000 dimes. Bron would be at OVER 30,000 points AND 10,000 dimes! That's some boss shit! He's basically the Wayne Gretzky of hoops. For all the goals The Great One scored, he MORE LAUDED for his assists. Bron is a pass first player who is ALSO 3rd all time in scoring doing that! From there, he still has a shot to pass Kareem for the all time scoring crown.

IF Bron were to match MJ in rings to boot, I think u gotta give Lebron the crown. Just saying to say the GOAT debate between MJ and Bron ISN'T closed. I still consider MJ the GOAT. And peak wise the superior player. But Bron is the 2nd best player ever peak wise. And his resume (which is what entails GOAT status) could very well PASS MJ by! Those that think the debate is shut and closed are being shortsighted! Peak wise, MJ closed the case though!