Defenses don't want to double-team - doubling ISN'T a good thing for a defense

[3ba11]

Lebron fans seem to think that double-teaming is a good/cool thing that defenses like doing, and that Lebron's good passing prevents defenses from doing this thing that they normally do to everyone - no, that's false - double-teaming is BAD for a defense and defenses don't like doing it because "double-teaming creates a 4-on-3 off-the-ball" (Lebron said this (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?473175-quot-Double-teams-create-a-4-on-3-off-the-ball-quot-Lebron-James))..

So the defense is compromised regardless of who is passed to out of the double-team, which means that good passing ability isn't needed to take advantage of a double-team, and isn't the determining factor of whether to double-team..

The determining factor of whether to double-team is the need to get the ball out of a hot scorer's hands or prevent them from touching the ball.. Passing ability has little or nothing to do with it, but it's used as a cop-out to explain why Lebron's scoring threat doesn't command a double.. He doesn't command doubles because he never gets "hot", so there's no urgency to get the ball out of his hands and his ball-domination is preferred by defenses over ball movement.

[Gohan]

Lebron fans seem to think that his passing prevents double-teaming, as if double-teaming is a good/cool thing that defenses would otherwise be doing - no, that's false - double-teaming is generally bad for a defense because "double-teaming creates a 4-on-3 off-the-ball" (Lebron said this (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?473175-quot-Double-teams-create-a-4-on-3-off-the-ball-quot-Lebron-James))..

So you don't need to be a great passer to take advantage of a double team - passing to literally anyone out of a double-team gives the offense a 4-on-3 advantage.. That's why double-teaming is generally bad for a defense and it's only done to get the ball out of a hot scorer's hands or prevent them from touching the ball.. Lebron's passing has literally nothing to do with it, but it's used as a cop-out to explain why his scoring threat doesn't command a double (he never gets "hot")

Did you say lebron never gets hot? Ive done heard it all now

[3ba11]

Did you say lebron never gets hot? Ive done heard it all now


Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers - this is statistical fact - so no, he almost never gets hot.

Players with elite jumpshooting skill get hot every game and force the opposing coach to call a timeout.. Whereas Lebron might get hot a few times a year (not something to gameplan for).

I remember watching MJ/Kobe and waiting for that moment every game where the opposing coach angrily calls a timeout because they hit a couple jumpers in a row and started galvanizing the whole team (the whole team has started to feed off them getting hot).. This requires adjustments to send double-teams, which compromises the defense and opens up the possibility of further mistakes.. Lebron doesn't cause these adjustments - it's like Stan Van Gundy said - "we wanted him to dribble and get stats"

Btw, I re-edited the OP but actually your quote was a better version

[Gohan]

Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers - this is statistical fact - so no, he almost never gets hot.

Players with elite jumpshooting skill get hot every game and force the opposing coach to call a timeout.. Whereas Lebron might get hot a few times a year (not something to gameplan for).

I remember watching MJ/Kobe and waiting for that moment every game where the opposing coach angrily calls a timeout because they hit a couple jumpers in a row and started galvanizing the whole team (the whole team has started to feed off them getting hot).. This requires adjustments to send double-teams, which compromises the defense and opens up the possibility of further mistakes.. Lebron doesn't cause these adjustments - it's like Stan Van Gundy said - "we wanted him to dribble and get stats"

Btw, I re-edited the OP but actually your quote was a better version
Oh ok i understand, youre talking about him making tough shots. I was just saying ive seen him make multiple wide open 3’s before in a row. I actually agree with the mj and kobe thing which should tell you all you need to know with their finals record.:cheers:

[3ba11]

.
Lebron Myths that make up the Fraud (corrected in parentheses)


* Lebron makes teammates better (teaming up doesn't equal "making teammates better"... his ball-dominant skillset infact reduces teammate role to spot-up shooter and lowers the stats of guys like Ingram, Kuzma, Bosh, Love, Hughes, Jamison, etc, while his ball-dominance reduces team strategy below the best strategy of ball movement.. so his inferior way of playing (aka ball-dominance) reduces teammates, team strategy, and ultimately team ceiling/Finals record)

* Lebron is a "genius" player that understands effective offense (zero #1 offenses... fans see a tall athlete dribble well = genius... aka conflation of physical talent with the right way to play.. he's actually a 6'8" Westbrook with better efficiency but still a shit brand of ball-dominance that loses on the championship level regardless of cast, coach or odds)

* Lebron doesn't get doubled because of his passing ability (doubles automatically compromise a defense with a 3-on-4 off-the-ball regardless of who is doubled, so passing ability isn't needed to pass out of doubles and isn't the determining factor of whether to double - the decision to double-team is based on scoring ability and whether a jumpshooter is getting hot - aka penetrators are met at the rim with multiple defenders, so only hot jumpshooters require doubling to get the ball out of their hands)

* Lebron does more with the ball (Lebron closes far less possessions, aka usage and averages 5 less PPG, while sharing the scoring load with sidekicks - 1a/1b is a lesser load than 1st option/2nd option)

[RRR3]

LeBron annihilated Kobe head to head. 16-6. Eeyikes

[Gohan]

LeBron annihilated Kobe head to head. 16-6. Eeyikes

4-10

[Bronbron23]

Lebron fans seem to think that double-teaming is a good/cool thing that defenses like doing, and that Lebron's good passing prevents defenses from doing this thing that they normally do to everyone - no, that's false - double-teaming is BAD for a defense and defenses don't like doing it because "double-teaming creates a 4-on-3 off-the-ball" (Lebron said this (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?473175-quot-Double-teams-create-a-4-on-3-off-the-ball-quot-Lebron-James))..

So the defense is compromised regardless of who is passed to out of the double-team, which means that good passing ability isn't needed to take advantage of a double-team, and isn't the determining factor of whether to double-team..

The determining factor of whether to double-team is the need to get the ball out of a hot scorer's hands or prevent them from touching the ball.. Passing ability has little or nothing to do with it, but it's used as a cop-out to explain why Lebron's scoring threat doesn't command a double.. He doesn't command doubles because he never gets "hot", so there's no urgency to get the ball out of his hands and his ball-domination is preferred by defenses over ball movement.

There's some truth to this but i don't think your giving enough credit to bron as a passer and how that enters into the decision of teams willingness to double bron. Teams doubled him a whole lot more last year without ad and the shooters around him to make them pay. When he's had good shooters around him teams doubled bron alot less. This is because they respect his ability to pass out of the double and put their defense at a disadvantage.

[AirBonner]

Op basically highlighting that LeBron breaks down opposing teams defenses by great passing out of the double team (forcing miss matches)

[8Ball]

Jordan is a Kyrie level passer.

Mediocre. Nothing to write home about.

[Bronbron23]

Op basically highlighting that LeBron breaks down opposing teams defenses by great passing out of the double team (forcing miss matches)

Yeah he is partly and that's the aspect he's missing. He is right though when he talks about not commanding double teams. Teams don't fear brons scoring ability like they did mj or kobe.

[Mr. Woke]

Lebron doesn't take contested jumpers - this is statistical fact - so no, he almost never gets hot.

Players with elite jumpshooting skill get hot every game and force the opposing coach to call a timeout.. Whereas Lebron might get hot a few times a year (not something to gameplan for).

I remember watching MJ/Kobe and waiting for that moment every game where the opposing coach angrily calls a timeout because they hit a couple jumpers in a row and started galvanizing the whole team (the whole team has started to feed off them getting hot).. This requires adjustments to send double-teams, which compromises the defense and opens up the possibility of further mistakes.. Lebron doesn't cause these adjustments - it's like Stan Van Gundy said - "we wanted him to dribble and get stats"

Btw, I re-edited the OP but actually your quote was a better version

LeBron takes contested jumpers.

You are the biggest liar on ISH.

[ELITEpower23]

MJ = mediocre level passer


There is no penalty for doubling a bad passer.

LBJ = Elite level passer

Next

[ShawkFactory]

There's some truth to this but i don't think your giving enough credit to bron as a passer and how that enters into the decision of teams willingness to double bron. Teams doubled him a whole lot more last year without ad and the shooters around him to make them pay. When he's had good shooters around him teams doubled bron alot less. This is because they respect his ability to pass out of the double and put their defense at a disadvantage.
Seriously. OP is making things black and white again.

[Airupthere]

Hard to double team a flopper. You double him, he falls down flailing, you get called for a foul.

[imdaman99]

I miss the days of swarming defense, perfect team defense rotation. I tried playing that at my park but no one rotates :lol it's a lost cause.

[Bronbron23]

MJ = mediocre level passer


There is no penalty for doubling a bad passer.

LBJ = Elite level passer

Next

Your being as ignorant as op. Mj was a good passer and unlike bron he had the option of either beating the double-team himself or passing out of it. Bron almost always passes out because he has no choice. It's not aways the smart play

[3ba11]

There's some truth to this but i don't think your giving enough credit to bron as a passer and how that enters into the decision of teams willingness to double bron. Teams doubled him a whole lot more last year without ad and the shooters around him to make them pay. When he's had good shooters around him teams doubled bron alot less. This is because they respect his ability to pass out of the double and put their defense at a disadvantage.


Defenses are compromised with a 4-on-3 deficit off-the-ball regardless of who passes out of the double or who receives the pass.. So passing ability doesn't determine who gets doubled and defenses don't like doubling as a general rule regardless of passing skill due to the 4-on-3 deficit that results.

However, sometimes it's worthwhile to undertake the 4-on-3 risk due to the scoring ability of the player in question - so scoring ability determines the double-team decision, not passing ability.. Specifically, a double might be worth it against a jumpshooter that is getting hot - i.e. penetrators are met at the rim with multiple defenders, so only hot jumpshooters require doubling to get the ball out of their hands.