Kevin Garnett's lack of help in Minnesota was exaggerated

[Im Still Ballin]

Some of the names he played with while on Minnesota:

Wally (2002 All-Star)
Terrell Brandon
Chauncy Billups
Cassell (2004 All-Star)
Sprewell

Some decent names; I'd take these guys over 2003 Tony Parker.

[Im Still Ballin]

Also:

Tom G
Stephon Marbury

[90sgoat]

Sam Cassell in particular is really underrated here.

Cassell has two rings with Olajuwon and was an important part of both championship teams.

He was like Chauncey Billups before Billups, a vet and a leader.

Those Minnesota teams were decent, not great, but decent. They were not trash by any means, certainly as good or better than the teams that Iverson or Kidd had.

[iamgine]

lol

[Kblaze8855]

Having a couple all stars in 12-13 years is supposed to be good? Some of the worst run teams ever have names you would recognize over 10+ years. Tmac in Orlando and Mitch Richmond in Sacramento are just about the only superstars with an extended run of nobody worth talking about and one of those “runs” was only 4 years.

Whatever team you think had the worst 10 year run they still have names. The Bobcats from like 05-15 had the worst team ever and a bunch of 18-35ish win teams. Still had Al Jefferson, Gerald Wallace, Kemba, Steven Jackson, Jason Richardson and others worth mentioning.

They had 3-4 names on the team that broke the record for worst team ever by win percentage.

Doesnt make the teams decent.

A bunch of names many of them not in their primes or healthy don’t matter. Wally and Googs might be the only healthy prime players you listed. Even Brandon fell off from his mid 90s peak before Minnesota.

Several good players but that just makes it an nba team over a decade+.

Compared to the Blazers, Mavs, Kings, and Lakers of that time also trying to do things in the west? Not much to work with. Spurs it depends on the year in question.

03 was among the best overachieving years ever. By 05 though? I’d take that version of Manu over everyone but KG to wear a Minny uniform from 90 till today.

KG had some respectable rosters just not rosters likely to do anything when others have multiple prime bigtime players or situations like Shaq/Kobe when your second is Wally.

He had teams of nba players. 10-15 years of that will always result in some names to drop even on shit franchises.

He didn’t have teams worth talking about usually. The best he had to me was Sam that one healthy year and by the playoffs he was broken down. He played only 2 games in the wcf and KG was out there with this guy playing 35 minutes at one point:




https://www.hostpic.org/images/2109021739230354.jpeg




and I’d bet 80% of ISH doesn’t even know who that is.



It just doesn’t come together for everyone. Health…age…dumb team decisions(Minnesota lost 5 years of first rounders doing an illegal deal for Joe Smith). Never came together for KG. Doesn’t mean his rosters never had a recognizable name other than his.

Having a few names over a long long time just means your team is in the nba.

[tontoz]

Cassell was only there for 1 full year. He got hurt in his second year and then they let him walk.

He was 34 when he got there btw.

Sprewell was there only 2 years as well. They made him a reasonable offer and he had his famous line "i got kids to feed" and turned them down.

[imdaman99]

The real issue was why Starbury wanted off that team. I know he takes the blame himself for how he couldn't make it work, but him and KG were both kids and were only going to get better. Maybe he didn't want to live in Minnesota, but who can tell what a petroleum jelly eating dude really thought?

[pandiani17]

Sam Cassell in particular is really underrated here.

Cassell has two rings with Olajuwon and was an important part of both championship teams.

He was like Chauncey Billups before Billups, a vet and a leader.

Those Minnesota teams were decent, not great, but decent. They were not trash by any means, certainly as good or better than the teams that Iverson or Kidd had.

If that Minnesota team was in the East, they would also have made the finals in KG's time there. The problem was not that Minnesota didn't have a good roster, the issue was the West was really loaded (LA Lakers, Portland Trail Blazers, Sacramento Kings, San Antonio Spurs, Dallas Mavericks and Utah Jazz were big juggernauts at the time.)

[iamgine]

Sam Cassell in particular is really underrated here.

Cassell has two rings with Olajuwon and was an important part of both championship teams.

He was like Chauncey Billups before Billups, a vet and a leader.

Those Minnesota teams were decent, not great, but decent. They were not trash by any means, certainly as good or better than the teams that Iverson or Kidd had.

That only prove the lack of help further. The only good season a 34 year old Cassell had, Minny made the WCF in the stacked west.

[90sgoat]

That only prove the lack of help further. The only good season a 34 year old Cassell had, Minny made the WCF in the stacked west.

Yes, it proved KG needed someone to run the offense and make the big shots.

I'm not sure, but I seem to remember Cassel making some big plays in that playoff run.

[lakerstekkenn]

This myth that these other teams didn't have enough talent to beat the Kobe Shaq Lakers is laughable excuses Portland had enough and had that series in the bag even shutting down Shaq with a double digit lead and all they had to do was score a couple of points by being aggressive attacking the basket.

Indiana had enough to beat the Lakers also especially when Shaq fouled out but Kobe too over Indiana the next game embarrassed the Lakers and game 6 the game was close enough for Indiana to win.

The Kings also had enough to beat the Lakers but blew game 7 and other games

Keven Garnett in Minnesota Timberwolves also had enough to best the Lakers but didn't they could've but didn't, while Detroit did beat La.

Everyone had enough the top playoff teams had enough to beat anybody including the Lakers Indiana had enough to beat Detroit in those last years of Reggie's career but lost.



Detroit had enough to beat the Lakers and did.



This is an excuse because Milwaukee had enough to beat The Nets in game 7 even with Durant going off not missing shots and Milwaukee still beat them on the Nets home floor, everyone who's a Milwaukee fan if they would've lost would be making endless threads claiming they didn't have enough talent to beat The Nets and this isn't true.

Phoenix Suns also had enough to beat Milwaukee but their difference adjustments and intensity wasn't elevated to slow down Giannis and his 40 plus points a game beat them, just minor adjustments and higher defensive intensity aggressive defense would've brought Giannis points down giving them a chance to beat The Bucks but that didn't happen, Phoenix had enough to win, and every other team including the Clippers, 76ers and Jazz Denver all had enough to win the NBA title so those excuses won't work, unless there's serious injuries or the teams are just at that lower level in rankings, even Atlanta had enough to beat Milwaukee, because they beat them.

[3ba11]

Some of the names he played with while on Minnesota:

Wally (2002 All-Star)
Terrell Brandon
Chauncy Billups
Cassell (2004 All-Star)
Sprewell

Some decent names; I'd take these guys over 2003 Tony Parker.


Cassell got hurt in the main playoff run (04') where the Wolves would've won if he was healthy... KG and Spree weren't enough to beat Shaq/Kobe, but they were nearly enough.. Cassell would've won it for them.. Trust me.. I watched that series and was cheering hard for KG.. I think he averaged like 27/18/6

And outside of that year, KG had no help - the Cassell/Spree tenure with KG was short

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That Darrick Martin, Blaze? :lol I remember him on the Clippers

Spree and Cassell were legit back in 04. They just weren't enough against Shaq/Kobe. Not 1, but TWO top 10 greats.

[tpols]

Sam Cassell was balling in the 2004 playoffs before he got hurt.

The irony of why is hilarious.



"All the time," said Flip Saunders about Cassell's injury. "It was his hip. He made a shot out of the corner against Sacramento in Game 7 [of the conference semifinals], and he did his little Big Balls dance, and from that, he created a little avulsion fracture in his hip. No question, I think about that dance all the time. But that’s the NBA. I went to four straight conference finals in Minnesota and Detroit, and we had injury issues in each one. The team that wins the title is usually the healthiest team."

[SouBeachTalents]

Damn, Terrell Brandon or Wally Szczerbiak as your 2nd option AND 11 ppg Chauncey Billups? That team was stacked

[Jasper]

lol

ditto

lmao When Spree and Cassel were with Garnet - it was the only time they made the playoffs and got toasted.

George Mikan is laughn' at this thread as well.

[Im Still Ballin]

The thread title is still valid.

Everybody greatly exaggerates about how supposedly weak KG's supporting cast was.

Not enough is mentioned about his subpar playoff performances. Other greats did more with less; that's real talk!

[SaintzFury13]

Trust me.. I watched that series

No, you didn't.


This myth that these other teams didn't have enough talent to beat the Kobe Shaq Lakers is laughable excuses Portland had enough and had that series in the bag even shutting down Shaq with a double digit lead and all they had to do was score a couple of points by being aggressive attacking the basket.

Indiana had enough to beat the Lakers also especially when Shaq fouled out but Kobe too over Indiana the next game embarrassed the Lakers and game 6 the game was close enough for Indiana to win.

The Kings also had enough to beat the Lakers but blew game 7 and other games

Keven Garnett in Minnesota Timberwolves also had enough to best the Lakers but didn't they could've but didn't, while Detroit did beat La.

Everyone had enough the top playoff teams had enough to beat anybody including the Lakers Indiana had enough to beat Detroit in those last years of Reggie's career but lost.



Detroit had enough to beat the Lakers and did.



This is an excuse because Milwaukee had enough to beat The Nets in game 7 even with Durant going off not missing shots and Milwaukee still beat them on the Nets home floor, everyone who's a Milwaukee fan if they would've lost would be making endless threads claiming they didn't have enough talent to beat The Nets and this isn't true.

Phoenix Suns also had enough to beat Milwaukee but their difference adjustments and intensity wasn't elevated to slow down Giannis and his 40 plus points a game beat them, just minor adjustments and higher defensive intensity aggressive defense would've brought Giannis points down giving them a chance to beat The Bucks but that didn't happen, Phoenix had enough to win, and every other team including the Clippers, 76ers and Jazz Denver all had enough to win the NBA title so those excuses won't work, unless there's serious injuries or the teams are just at that lower level in rankings, even Atlanta had enough to beat Milwaukee, because they beat them.

Not this moron again. Go away.

[Kblaze8855]

The thread title is still valid.

Everybody greatly exaggerates about how supposedly weak KG's supporting cast was.

Not enough is mentioned about his subpar playoff performances. Other greats did more with less; that's real talk!

Saying it again doesnt mean you have a case. Just means you’re still talking. In that era Tmac had the worst teams of the true superstars and then depending on the season either KG or Iverson. And KG was the only one in the west where 51 wins gets him Shaq and Kobe in the first round while it would have been the first seed in the East. 27/16/5 doesn’t get you past Shaq and his 29/15/4 when you have Troy Hudson MJ doing his best to be your second option and Shaq has Kobe doing 32 a game. It’s a tough out and it takes some depth, great coaching, and vets to navigate that top end talent disparity which is why Duncans 03 is largely considered a GOAT tier run.

Its certainly not to be expected.

All there is to say is that KG didn’t complete incredibly rare and spectacular feats of overcoming inferior talent to win. And that’s nothing at all considering like 2 people have in the last 70 years and nobody makes a habit of it.

Better people than KG lost early with far more talented lineups. Calling him out for losing with teams that should lose is just being a dick.

The very first time he was on a team that should have won they won 66 games and the title as he led them in scoring in the playoffs despite also being the DPOY. Hard to say he didn’t do what he was supposed to. When he had a chance to win a title he pretty much brought it home in the first half:


https://youtu.be/VL98ftwdyGE


He lost with teams that should have and contended with teams that should have.

The list is amazingly short of guys who won with teams that should have been in the lottery or out in round one. No shame not being on it. Top 5 all time types aren’t on it either.

[Im Still Ballin]

Saying it again doesnt mean you have a case. Just means you’re still talking. In that era Tmac had the worst teams of the true superstars and then depending on the season either KG or Iverson. And KG was the only one in the west where 51 wins gets him Shaq and Kobe in the first round while it would have been the first seed in the East. 27/16/5 doesn’t get you past Shaq and his 29/15/4 when you have Troy Hudson MJ doing his best to be your second option and Shaq has Kobe doing 32 a game. It’s a tough out and it takes some depth, great coaching, and vets to navigate that top end talent disparity which is why Duncans 03 is largely considered a GOAT tier run.

Its certainly not to be expected.

All there is to say is that KG didn’t complete incredibly rare and spectacular feats of overcoming inferior talent to win. And that’s nothing at all considering like 2 people have in the last 70 years and nobody makes a habit of it.

Better people than KG lost early with far more talented lineups. Calling him out for losing with teams that should lose is just being a dick.

The very first time he was on a team that should have won they won 66 games and the title as he led them in scoring in the playoffs despite also being the DPOY. Hard to say he didn’t do what he was supposed to. When he had a chance to win a title he pretty much brought it home in the first half:


https://youtu.be/VL98ftwdyGE


He lost with teams that should have and contended with teams that should have.

The list is amazingly short of guys who won with teams that should have been in the lottery or out in round one. No shame not being on it. Top 5 all time types aren’t on it either.

Not disputing anything that you're saying; just that people these days:

- Underrate the supporting cast he had
- Ignore his subpar playoff performances

My assessment of him has always been the same: GOAT-level defender, great passer, all-star-tier offensive production.

Out of all the great players, it's KG that, in my opinion, gets an unfair and unrealistic boost in the rankings. I mean, some people legitimately have him as a top 10 guy.

That just doesn't sit right with me. I personally think David Robinson was a better player; I don't see people putting him in the top 10.

Narratives are parroted and regurgitated online until they seemingly become facts. I've never agreed with people who try to put KG on the same level as Tim Duncan: the gold standard of PFs. I think there was a large enough playoff sample size; it gave us a clear picture of who both players were in that time period:

https://i.ibb.co/09jKwyY/kg.png
https://i.ibb.co/dkGXhq0/kg1.png
https://i.ibb.co/xgkcs6f/td.png
https://i.ibb.co/YLKdQLS/td1.png

Also: He led Boston in scoring, but it was quite clearly, offensively speaking, a three-headed monster approach. A triumvirate. On any given night, Ray, Paul, or KG was taking the most shots.

[Kblaze8855]

Sure it was a 3 headed monster on offense….while he was an elite defender. Making it clear who the best player was.

As for Tim and KG we were having that argument here when they were both up for 03 MVP and I was sick of it then. I’d have taken Duncan for that league and in this one…I’d probably take KG with the change in how defenses operate.

They were similar level and each had people on their sides regardless. We always do the career thing and act like people directly compared in their primes aren’t close 20 years later. Just the nature of the beast. In 2002 on here KG, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Tmac, Iverson and Kidd could all be put in the top 3 and the only one who always got that ranking was Shaq for a while. All the rest depending on who was talking.

Whatever anyone thinks decades removed won’t change that. I don’t care much what order you want them in. There isn’t enough difference to squabble over it even if I’m pretty set in my choices.

[HoopsNY]

That Darrick Martin, Blaze? :lol I remember him on the Clippers

Spree and Cassell were legit back in 04. They just weren't enough against Shaq/Kobe. Not 1, but TWO top 10 greats.

Is it? It looks like Jacque Vaughn to me.

[HoopsNY]

Having a couple all stars in 12-13 years is supposed to be good? Some of the worst run teams ever have names you would recognize over 10+ years. Tmac in Orlando and Mitch Richmond in Sacramento are just about the only superstars with an extended run of nobody worth talking about and one of those “runs” was only 4 years.

Whatever team you think had the worst 10 year run they still have names. The Bobcats from like 05-15 had the worst team ever and a bunch of 18-35ish win teams. Still had Al Jefferson, Gerald Wallace, Kemba, Steven Jackson, Jason Richardson and others worth mentioning.

They had 3-4 names on the team that broke the record for worst team ever by win percentage.

Doesnt make the teams decent.

A bunch of names many of them not in their primes or healthy don’t matter. Wally and Googs might be the only healthy prime players you listed. Even Brandon fell off from his mid 90s peak before Minnesota.

Several good players but that just makes it an nba team over a decade+.

Compared to the Blazers, Mavs, Kings, and Lakers of that time also trying to do things in the west? Not much to work with. Spurs it depends on the year in question.

03 was among the best overachieving years ever. By 05 though? I’d take that version of Manu over everyone but KG to wear a Minny uniform from 90 till today.

KG had some respectable rosters just not rosters likely to do anything when others have multiple prime bigtime players or situations like Shaq/Kobe when your second is Wally.

He had teams of nba players. 10-15 years of that will always result in some names to drop even on shit franchises.

He didn’t have teams worth talking about usually. The best he had to me was Sam that one healthy year and by the playoffs he was broken down. He played only 2 games in the wcf and KG was out there with this guy playing 35 minutes at one point:




https://www.hostpic.org/images/2109021739230354.jpeg




and I’d bet 80% of ISH doesn’t even know who that is.



It just doesn’t come together for everyone. Health…age…dumb team decisions(Minnesota lost 5 years of first rounders doing an illegal deal for Joe Smith). Never came together for KG. Doesn’t mean his rosters never had a recognizable name other than his.

Having a few names over a long long time just means your team is in the nba.

Just more excuses for KG. Brandon in the 2000 season put up 17/9/4/2 on 47/40/90 splits.

In the 1st round, they faced a stacked Portland team, but KG wasn't at his best at all.

'99 Brandon vs. POR: 20/6/9/1/0 on 58% TS%
'99 Garnett vs. POR: 19/11/9/1/1 on 44% TS%

This is the problem with KG; anyone who watched him those years with Marbury and Brandon saw that KG wanted to be a playmaker. He defaulted to teammates too often, when he already had very good PGs. As a result, you saw him passing in the 4th quarter of big games when his team really needed him to dominate and score.

[HoopsNY]

Saying it again doesnt mean you have a case. Just means you’re still talking. In that era Tmac had the worst teams of the true superstars and then depending on the season either KG or Iverson. And KG was the only one in the west where 51 wins gets him Shaq and Kobe in the first round while it would have been the first seed in the East. 27/16/5 doesn’t get you past Shaq and his 29/15/4 when you have Troy Hudson MJ doing his best to be your second option and Shaq has Kobe doing 32 a game. It’s a tough out and it takes some depth, great coaching, and vets to navigate that top end talent disparity which is why Duncans 03 is largely considered a GOAT tier run.

Its certainly not to be expected.

All there is to say is that KG didn’t complete incredibly rare and spectacular feats of overcoming inferior talent to win. And that’s nothing at all considering like 2 people have in the last 70 years and nobody makes a habit of it.

Better people than KG lost early with far more talented lineups. Calling him out for losing with teams that should lose is just being a dick.

The very first time he was on a team that should have won they won 66 games and the title as he led them in scoring in the playoffs despite also being the DPOY. Hard to say he didn’t do what he was supposed to. When he had a chance to win a title he pretty much brought it home in the first half:


https://youtu.be/VL98ftwdyGE


He lost with teams that should have and contended with teams that should have.

The list is amazingly short of guys who won with teams that should have been in the lottery or out in round one. No shame not being on it. Top 5 all time types aren’t on it either.

The problem with this kind of excuse making (which is exactly what it is), is that it excuses KG for losing on teams that he - rightfully - should have lost on, all while excusing him for his piss poor play in the games that mattered the most.

There is no excuse for KG's first 7 playoffs. He folded in the moments that mattered the most and some some of his teammates continuously outplay him in deciding or elimination games.

I mean, he got outplayed by Dean f****** Garrett and Anthony Peeler for crying out loud.

It's why KG is massively overrated, and why he continues to get excuses for the formation of the super-team in Boston.