Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #5

[dankok8]

List:

#1 - Michael Jordan
#2 - Lebron James
#3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#4 - Bill Russell
#5 - VOTING NOW

This is the player pool:

https://i.postimg.cc/VN7jY7Zz/Top-10-Candidates.jpg

For a full player pool see the link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ARaI3VCNauULLYL1Yu24HIRY768FYQdip56sp6uRFGk/edit?usp=sharing).

Everyone may post in this thread but only votes from serious contributors will be considered. Not everyone has to write an essay but there should be some justification or explanation and some coherent arguments being presented. I encourage people to be open-minded and willing to adjust their rankings in response to strong evidence. Debate and discussion is encouraged.

Opening Vote Tally

Wilt Chamberlain - 11 (coastalmarker99, Thenameless, L. Kizzle, warriorfan, Overdrive, RRR3, StrongLurk, SaintzFury, SouBeachTalents, ELITEpower23, sdot_thadon)
Tim Duncan - 2 (8Ball, Jasper)

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Arbitrary as it sounds, I don't see Magic NOT being top 5.

Arguably the GOAT offensive player, and only behind Bron/MJ in Career BPM. During his prime, Magic averaged 20/12/7 on 50% shooting in the regular-season and 20/13/7 on 51% shooting in the playoffs. He is also #1 in assists per game, and has: 4 assist titles, 3 Finals MVPs, 3 MVPs, 9 All-NBA 1st Teams, 5 chips.

The longevity might be lacking, but Magic's resume definitely isn't.

[Wally450]

Larry Bird. I usually put Bird at 5. Wilt looks like he'll probably win, but the way Bird would dominate some of the better East teams in the 80s was something to witness. I have Wilt a couple spots down. Not a slight at him.

[SouBeachTalents]

I doubt even Wilt can lose a lead this big

[RRR3]

I doubt even Wilt can lose a lead this big
:roll:

[jlip]

This is where it gets very murky for me. Wilt is my vote, as I had him on my Mt. Rushmore until I gave LeBron the edge recently. But now I'm looking at a tier that includes Magic, Bird, Shaq, and Duncan which is tough.

[dankok8]

I'm still unsure who to vote for but over the years my valuations of Magic and Bird have fallen.

Even though Kareem often suffers from "He didn't win much without Magic..." arguments it's actually Magic who never won without Kareem. In fact Magic was only the best player on a championship team twice in 1987 and 1988 with Kareem as 2nd and 3rd option, respectively. He has an undeserved Finals MVP in 1980 and the regular season MVP in 1990 was at least questionable given the incredible form of Jordan and Barkley. Anyways Magic has 12 year career and played in a historically weak conference alongside a GOAT candidate, Kareem who even by the mid 80's was still amazing. Magic's prime started in 84-85 and ended in 90-91 so he gave 7 prime years. He is the greatest passer ever and just a good scorer but average defensively. I think the system helped Magic as much as he helped the system.

Bird in my mind was a better player than Magic at his peak but his longevity is just way too poor. He entered his prime in 83-84 and by 87-88 his prime was done derailed by injuries. Even if Bird is better than Wilt which I think he is if you're trying to win games, he just has way too few healthy years to the point where I would have Wilt ranked over him without too much hesitation.

I have Magic over Bird but both are below Wilt, Shaq and Duncan IMO.

Now Shaq... jeez... probably the most dominant player ever in his prime. Won 1 MVP which should have been 2-3 MVP's... He gave us a solid 10 season prime from 93-94 to 02-03 too. I don't see myself ranking him below Magic and Bird. Better peak, longer career... it's a no-brainer.

Duncan is my most recent choice for #5. If anything he is the Bill Russell of the modern era. A guy who was a better player than his statistics, won 4 titles as the best player, had impressive longevity. Just a monster defensively but he's also very underrated offensively giving 25-27 ppg in his best years on +3 rTS.

And then Wilt who I am extremely impressed with. People think I hate on him because I don't see him above Kareem or Russell but it can't be further from the truth. Wilt is the only guy who might be a top 10 offensive and defensive player ever. He should be a lock for this spot but I can't get over the 1968-1970 period.

So I am undecided between Wilt, Shaq and Duncan.

[Manny98]

Tim Duncan

[1987_Lakers]

Tossup between Shaq & Duncan for me. For me I feel Shaq's prime/peak edges out Duncan's advantage in longevity, Duncan was better throughout their 30's, but he was no longer considered a top 5 player in the league starting in around 2009 or so when he was 32. Shaq was just an unstoppable force at his peak, him and LeBron are the best players I've ever seen peak wise, I'm biased but I'm gonna go Shaq.

Shaq & Duncan in a way is similar to the Wilt vs Russell debate, only difference is Shaq won and dominated when he was expected to.

[1987_Lakers]

Just throwing a random stat out there.

Lakers record without Shaq from 2000-2004: 25-31 (44.6 winning %)

Lakers record with Shaq from 2000-2004: 266-92 (74.3 winning %)

Kinda surprising to see the Lakers had a losing record without Shaq considering they had a prime Kobe & Phil Jackson. Lakers comfortably had a winning record without Kobe in those years.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Just throwing a random stat out there.

Lakers record without Shaq from 2000-2004: 25-31 (44.6 winning %)

Lakers record with Shaq from 2000-2004: 266-92 (74.3 winning %)

Kinda surprising to see the Lakers had a losing record without Shaq considering they had a prime Kobe & Phil Jackson. Lakers comfortably had a winning record without Kobe in those years.

Don't really find that surprising.

After 2000, that team coasted A LOT during the regular-season.

2001 and 2003 were good examples of that. Particularly '01 when LA got hot at the end of the season, and then went on their historic playoff run.

[Jasper]

shaq

[Magic Is Magic]

Tim Duncan

*15x All Defensive Selections
*2x MVP
*3x FMVP
*3rd in Playoff win shares
*5x top 3 in MVP voting
*5x Championships

There is no one else left with this pedigree resume but I conclude Wilt is my #5 and a close call but Duncan > Wilt.

[Nowitness]

Tim Duncan.

Won 4 titles without a teammate making an All-NBA Team. Magic did it twice but played when there were only 2 All-NBA teams. No other player has done it more than once.
Top 3 longevity (was an MVP candidate as a rookie and was making All-NBA teams at 39).
Top 3 defender ever alongisde Russell and Hakeem.
Best player on 4 title teams.
2003 is either the biggest, or second biggest carry job ever. (Still to this day most Win Shares and highest VORP for a playoff run).
Most All-Defensive teams by a hefty margin (3).
Tied 2nd most All-NBA teams (15).
Won titles as the best, or second best player in 3 different decade.
Played in the golden era of PFs (Malone/Barkley/Dirk/KG) and came out clearly on top.
Per 100 statistics, have him as good a scorer as Bird. Had he played on faster teams and cared about stats, he'd have averaged 25+ consistently.

[dankok8]

I have decided on Wilt. He's the most flawed player but he also has the higher ceiling compared to Duncan. Besides it's a collaborative project so I will support the majority here. I considered Shaq as well but I don't see Wilt in the same light as Shaq. I see Wilt as a more dominant David Robinson in the modern NBA which is a scary thought. I feel like he's in the same mold. A little bit raw but has a jumper and just really big, really strong and really athletic and has unbelievable endurance.

[Bankaii]

I personally have magic #4.
But if Russell is 4 then Wilt should he right with him. So that’s my vote.
I feel like Shaq is going go get disrespected on this list.

[dankok8]

Official Vote Tally

Wilt Chamberlain - 14 (coastalmarker99, Thenameless, L. Kizzle, warriorfan, Overdrive, RRR3, StrongLurk, SaintzFury, SouBeachTalents, ELITEpower23, sdot_thadon, jlip, dankok8, Bankaii)
Tim Duncan - 5 (8Ball, Jasper, Manny98, Magic is Magic, Nowitness)
Shaquille O'Neal - 2 (1987_Lakers, Jasper)
Magic Johnson - 1 (kuniva_dAMiGhTy)
Larry Bird - 1 (Wally450)

Wilt wins. Thread #6 is now open.