Anyone believe Covid is very serious but at same time the vaccine ain't doing shit? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Back In Shape

09-04-2021, 05:31 PM

tontoz

09-04-2021, 05:35 PM

tpols

09-04-2021, 06:41 PM

Seems like there are only 2 camps out there

The ones who think Covid lethality isn't very serious and the need for a vaccine is ridiculous

And the ones who think Covid is extremely serious and the vaccine is helping a lot and needs to be implemented everywhere

Anyone else like me in the middle? I think Covid is super serious. I have a formerly healthy, thin, athletic cousin who's been in the hospital for 2 weeks with Covid. He's only 28 years old. At the same time I don't think this vaccine is doing shit. Take a look at the numbers

US now has more than four times as many cases of COVID and twice as many in hospital as this time last year with deaths up 80% despite 62% of population having at least one shot. With most of the population having the vaccine and even more people are dying, how is this vaccine helping exactly? :confusedshrug:

They have to keep pumping up the numbers to try and force people to get the vaccine. If they report low numbers it will deincentive-ize the remain 40+% people to get it. The whole goal of this exercise is to put EVERYBODY on the leash. That's why they're combining with the private sector to mandate or you lose your job and can't even go to a restaurant.

So when you say the vaccine isn't working, you're right because its all a scam. They will report new variants in perpetuity and require non stop booster shots to combat them. Any injury or death will be attributed to the next new "variant".

When you look at places like Austrialia this is VERY scary. Were witnessing pure tyranny unfold.

Manny98

09-04-2021, 06:51 PM

tontoz

09-04-2021, 06:56 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/fLHyn1Fy/RDT-20210904-2347134539318567769028041.jpg

Right because one guy who is known to abuse drugs and alcohol actually means something.

.Delta Air Lines (DAL), for example, recently announced that it will begin implementing a $200 monthly surcharge for all unvaccinated employees beginning Nov. 1.

"The average hospital stay for COVID-19 has cost Delta $50,000 per person," CEO Ed Bastian wrote in a memo. "This surcharge will be necessary to address the financial risk the decision to not vaccinate is creating for our company. In recent weeks since the rise of the B.1.617.2 variant, all Delta employees who have been hospitalized with COVID were not fully vaccinated ."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vaccine-mandates-america-122151333.html

tontoz

09-04-2021, 07:00 PM

. Texas anti-mask ‘Freedom Defender’ dies of COVID at age 30

Jessica Wallace said her husband got sick in late July, but “was so hard-headed.”

“He didn’t want to see a doctor, because he didn’t want to be part of the statistics with COVID tests,” she said.

He then tried unproven ivermectin — a livestock dewormer that has been denounced by the FDA — high doses of vitamin C, zinc aspirin and an inhaler, the Standard-Times reported.

https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2021/08/texas-anti-mask-freedom-defender-dies-of-covid-at-age-30.html

. At my hospital, over 95% of COVID-19 patients share one thing in common: They’re unvaccinated.

As an emergency medicine and critical care doctor at the University of Washington School of Medicine in Seattle, I’ve lost count of the number of COVID-19 surges since the U.S. pandemic began in Seattle in February 2020. But this one feels different. The patients are younger. They have fewer preexisting medical conditions. And at my hospital, over 95% of these hospitalized patients share one common feature: They’re unvaccinated.

https://news.yahoo.com/hospital-over-95-covid-19-122253397.html

tontoz

09-04-2021, 07:05 PM

. Group of South Florida doctors stage walkout in protest of unvaccinated COVID patients

A group of around 75 South Florida doctors staged a walkout on Monday to protest the number of unvaccinated COVID-19 patients flooding their hospital in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, MSNBC's Morning Joe reports.

The frustrated doctors want people to "ignore the nonsense and the absurdities that you're hearing people say at public meetings and recognize the value of what a vaccine will do," said Kerry Sanders, reporting on the ground in Florida.

https://news.yahoo.com/group-south-florida-doctors-stage-153410458.html

Manny98

09-04-2021, 07:11 PM

Right because one guy who is known to abuse drugs and alcohol actually means something.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vaccine-mandates-america-122151333.html
What has that got to do with the fact that he's been hospitalized for Covid despite being double vaccinated :confusedshrug:

I thought vaccines were supposed to give immunity

tontoz

09-04-2021, 07:15 PM

What has that got to do with the fact that he's been hospitalized for Covid despite being double vaccinated :confusedshrug:

I thought vaccines were supposed to give immunity

Immunity? Jesus you are an idiot.

Manny98

09-04-2021, 07:16 PM

Immunity? Jesus you are an idiot.
Vaccine definition

a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

Back In Shape

09-04-2021, 07:18 PM

If you think the vaccine isn't doing sh** then you aren't paying attention. The people dying aren't vaccinated. That is why companies are mandating the vaccines, so they don't have to pay the hospital stays.

People are are out and about more now than last year Schools are open. Your reasoning is laughably bad

Things have been opening up and people moving around since March and April when a much lower percentage of people where vaccinated, yet more people are dying now than then.

You are just as ignorant as the people in this thread who are claiming the virus isn't as dangerous. Y'alls answers are proving the point of my thread topic. We apparently must feel the need to buy into one camp or the other.

I'm sorry, whether these vaccines are useless against the new varients or they never worked to begin with the facts are indisputable. Just as many or more people are dying now with the vaccine than before without it.

tontoz

09-04-2021, 07:26 PM

Things have been opening up and people moving around since March and April when a much lower percentage of people where vaccinated, yet more people are dying now than then.

You are just as ignorant as the people in this thread who are claiming the virus isn't as dangerous. Y'alls answers are proving the point of my thread topic. We apparently must feel the need to buy into one camp or the other.

I'm sorry, whether these vaccines are useless against the new varients or they never worked to begin with the facts are indisputable. Just as many or more people are dying now with the vaccine than before without it.

The facts are that over 95% of the people dying aren't vaccinated. Your cousin obviously wasn't and neither are you. You are just making stuff up to rationalize your stupid decisions.

Just a few weeks ago I could go out to eat or to the gym without a mask. Right now schools are open. They weren't last year. But somehow in your twisted brain that doesn't have an effect on the COVID numbers.

:facepalm

tontoz

09-04-2021, 07:32 PM

Vaccine definition

a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.

Wow you obviously live in a bubble or are just really dumb.

The drug makers have never claimed the vaccines give full immunity. What they have claimed, and what has proven to be true, is that severe illness and death are far less likely if you are vaccinated. It is also less likely that you will transmit the disease to someone else.

Just go to any hospital and ask them if they think the vaccine is working. Or just continue to wallow in ignorance.

Manny98

09-04-2021, 07:39 PM

Wow you obviously live in a bubble or are just really dumb.

The drug makers have never claimed the vaccines give full immunity. What they have claimed, and what has proven to be true, is that severe illness and death are far less likely if you are vaccinated. It is also less likely that you will transmit the disease to someone else.

Just go to any hospital and ask them if they think the vaccine is working. Or just continue to wallow in ignorance.
A vaccine that doesn't work according to the actual scientific definition of what a vaccine actually is

lol :lol

tontoz

09-04-2021, 07:43 PM

A vaccine that doesn't work according to the actual scientific definition of what a vaccine actually is

lol :lol

You can't make a vaccine that gives full immunity for a virus that mutates. It simply isn't possible.

When people get a flu shot they aren't immune from the flu because the flu has so many variants.

The Delta variant didn't even exist this time last year so how could the vaccine provide immunity from it?

:facepalm

Back In Shape

09-04-2021, 07:50 PM

tontoz

09-04-2021, 08:05 PM

You are stating the same thing I've said in previous posts. The vaccine is worthless against the new variants.

No you are an idiot that is making stuff up and acting like it's true. You compare today's numbers to last year's without taking into account that schools are open, people were allowed in public mask less just recently and the Delta variant ( which is more contagious and more likely to cause severe illness) didn't even exist this time last year last year. The first documented case wasn't until December and it didn't become common here until this summer.

But none of that registers to simpletons like you.

There is plenty of evidence that the vaccine provides protection against the Delta variant but not full immunity. That is why ICU beds aren't being filled with people who are vaccinated. They are being filled with anti vax nutjobs.

Manny98

09-04-2021, 08:08 PM

You can't make a vaccine that gives full immunity for a virus that mutates. It simply isn't possible.

When people get a flu shot they aren't immune from the flu because the flu has so many variants.

The Delta variant didn't even exist this time last year so how could the vaccine provide immunity from it?

:facepalm
So why the f*ck are you suggesting that it should be mandated when it doesn't even do what it's designed to do

You can still catch Covid and die whether you're vaccinated or not vaccinated

Yes getting vaccinated reduces the chances of you dying but it doesn't give you full protection from anything

And people under 30 are more likely to do from side effects from the vaccine than Covid itself

tontoz

09-04-2021, 08:16 PM

So why the f*ck are you suggesting that it should be mandated when it doesn't even do what it's designed to do

You can still catch Covid and die whether you're vaccinated or not vaccinated

Yes getting vaccinated reduces the chances of you dying but it doesn't give you full protection from anything

And people under 30 are more likely to do from side effects from the vaccine than Covid itself

Hospital ICUs are overflowing with COVID patients who aren't vaccinated.

I already posted the story where the CEO of Delta Airlines said that each COVID hospital stay cost his company $50k and they all of his employees in the hospital are unvaccinated. They are going to charge their workers $200/month who choose to remain unvaccinated. I am sure other companies will follow suit.

When I got the vaccine in May it was a bit of a leap of faith. There wasn't as much evidence as there is now. I knew some people who got the vaccine before me and said the side effects were mild (sore arm, grogginess).

But back then the benefits of the vaccine weren't as clear as they are now

Cleverness

09-04-2021, 08:26 PM

Texas available hospital beds on March 18, 2020: 8,155 (source (https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/HOSPITAL_BED_CAPACITY_SLIDES_4.3.2020.pdf))

Texas available hospital beds today August 11, 2021: 13,696 (source (https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization))

Texas available hospital beds today September 4, 2021: 14,317 (source (https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization))

Hospital ICUs are overflowing with COVID patients who aren't vaccinated.

So after 18 months of preparation, $13.3 trillion in allocated spending in the name of Covid-19, hospitals eerily empty in 2020, 70-80% of the high risk fully vaccinated w/ the unvaxxed having some level of immunity, and the states "hardest hit" having thousands more hospital beds available than they had in March 2020 before Covid-19, the hospitals are.. "overwhelmed."

Interesting take.

Btw, what is the absolute risk reduction for hospitalization/death over 6-12 months after becoming fully vaccinated? You can break it down by age groups.

Manny98

09-04-2021, 08:30 PM

Back In Shape

09-04-2021, 08:39 PM

No you are an idiot that is making stuff up and acting like it's true. You compare today's numbers to last year's without taking into account that schools are open, people were allowed in public mask less just recently and the Delta variant ( which is more contagious and more likely to cause severe illness) didn't even exist this time last year last year. The first documented case wasn't until December and it didn't become common here until this summer.

But none of that registers to simpletons like you.

There is plenty of evidence that the vaccine provides protection against the Delta variant but not full immunity. That is why ICU beds aren't being filled with people who are vaccinated. They are being filled with anti vax nutjobs.

You are so caught up in tribal politics you can no longer see the truth if it walked up to you and put it's dick in your mouth. You are just as bad as the side claiming it's a bad flu.

Look at how angry you've become over this religion of vaccination. You have emotional stake in being right over it.

Hey, I know how serious the virus is. I've got my 2 jabs. I bought into the hype that once there was a majority of people vaccinated that Covid would quickly go away. Well I can admit I was wrong. I'm sorry you can't. The virus has proven smarter than your vaccine.

tontoz

09-04-2021, 08:43 PM

Hospitals aren't overflowing lol

That's blatant blatant propaganda trying to villanize the people that chose to no get the vaccine, that's all the media have been doing this past month is making the unvaccinated look like the worst people on the planet

Why don't you go to your local hospital and see for yourself. Don't you know anyone who works in healthcare?

Why do you think dozens of doctors walked out in Florida protesting unvaccinated patients?

These antivax nuts talk about freedom. Let me clue you in on something. You aren't free in your own car. You need a license, insurance and you have to wear your seat belt or get a ticket.

Seat belts didn't exist in cars originally. When they were invented and their benefits became apparent people resisted them, complaining about their freedom just like anti vax nuts now. So they became mandatory.

The vaccine will become mandatory for most people in the workforce soon enough.

Cleverness

09-04-2021, 08:44 PM

Hospitals aren't overflowing lol

That's blatant blatant propaganda trying to villanize the people that chose to no get the vaccine, that's all the media have been doing this past month is making the unvaccinated look like the worst people on the planet

Yeah, it's kinda difficult to buy the "hospitals overflowing due to the small % of people still unvaxxed" narrative when given all that info I just listed. Vaccine is super effective + 80%+ of high risk group fully vaxxed and/or some immunity + hospitals overwhelmed doesn't add up.

Btw, as I've said in the past, I think the vaccine does provide *some* protection against severe Covid-19 symptoms (just based on all the data I've looked at), but unfortunately we simply don't have any RCTs that were done to show it reduces your chance of being hospitalized or dying. The best RCT we had actually had 1 more death in the vaccine group than the control. :(

Cleverness

09-04-2021, 08:50 PM

coin24

09-04-2021, 09:04 PM

The overflowing hospital spiel is just a huge media propaganda tool..

The “vaccine” is basically just a flu shot. If they marketed it as that, ie, take one in autumn to give you protection for the flu season, they might have had a chance at everybody taking it..

But thats not the real agenda is it. All of these extra police and government powers, surveillance etc passports are the real plan..
Everything you do will be tied to the “vaccine passport”. Havnt had your booster? Can’t register your car, work, go to the gym or restaurant etc you will be on a tight leash forever..

Cleverness

09-04-2021, 09:15 PM

No you are an idiot that is making stuff up and acting like it's true. You compare today's numbers to last year's without taking into account that schools are open, people were allowed in public mask less

simpletons like you.

nutjobs.

Interesting assumptions there.

How many infections did school closures prevent from March 2020 to June 2021?

How many infections have masks prevented so far, or through June 2021?

Back In Shape

09-04-2021, 10:33 PM

But thats not the real agenda is it. All of these extra police and government powers, surveillance etc passports are the real plan..
Everything you do will be tied to the “vaccine passport”. Havnt had your booster? Can’t register your car, work, go to the gym or restaurant etc you will be on a tight leash forever..

The fact that he's gloating over forced vaccinations in the workplace tells me I don't want to be on THAT side. I'm not sure if I even have a side but that one definitely ain't the one for me.

tontoz

09-04-2021, 10:56 PM

The fact that he's gloating over forced vaccinations in the workplace tells me I don't want to be on THAT side. I'm not sure if I even have a side but that one definitely ain't the one for me.

News flash: you had to take a laundry list of vaccines to attend school as a kid. Off the top of my head mumps, measles, chicken pox, tetanus...varies by state and age but there were a lot of them.

In some states the flu vaccine was mandatory as the COVID vaccine surely will be.

Get over it

Back In Shape

09-04-2021, 11:30 PM

News flash: you had to take a laundry list of vaccines to attend school as a kid. Off the top of my head mumps, measles, chicken pox, tetanus...varies by state and age but there were a lot of them.

In some states the flu vaccine was mandatory as the COVID vaccine surely will be.

Get over it

You are missing the point of my entire thread. These vaccines don't work. When they have the effectiveness of the mumps, measles, chicken pox, tetanus vaccines then get back to me. You are gloating over people forced to get a vaccine that has proven not to work so far.

Axe

09-04-2021, 11:59 PM

I'm certain that op envies your username, op.

RRR3

09-05-2021, 12:37 AM

Reading this thread was sad. Like watching one adult (tonztoz) try to reason with a group of toddlers.

SATAN

09-05-2021, 12:56 AM

ZenMaster

09-05-2021, 04:23 AM

Why don't you go to your local hospital and see for yourself. Don't you know anyone who works in healthcare?

Why do you think dozens of doctors walked out in Florida protesting unvaccinated patients?

These antivax nuts talk about freedom. Let me clue you in on something. You aren't free in your own car. You need a license, insurance and you have to wear your seat belt or get a ticket.

Seat belts didn't exist in cars originally. When they were invented and their benefits became apparent people resisted them, complaining about their freedom just like anti vax nuts now. So they became mandatory.

The vaccine will become mandatory for most people in the workforce soon enough.

Walked out, as in they walked out of the hospital because they were on a break or off work?

tontoz

09-05-2021, 10:04 AM

You are missing the point of my entire thread. These vaccines don't work. When they have the effectiveness of the mumps, measles, chicken pox, tetanus vaccines then get back to me. You are gloating over people forced to get a vaccine that has proven not to work so far.

Proven not to work because you say so? They have absolutely proven to reduce the severity and transmissibility of covid. The data is overwhelming but complete immunity isn't going to happen for a virus that mutates.

A seat belt doesn't give complete protection in car accidents. You can still get hurt or even killed in a car crash if you are wearing a seat belt. Does that mean they don't work? :facepalm

n00bie

09-05-2021, 10:27 AM

Things have been opening up and people moving around since March and April when a much lower percentage of people where vaccinated, yet more people are dying now than then.

You are just as ignorant as the people in this thread who are claiming the virus isn't as dangerous. Y'alls answers are proving the point of my thread topic. We apparently must feel the need to buy into one camp or the other.

I'm sorry, whether these vaccines are useless against the new varients or they never worked to begin with the facts are indisputable. Just as many or more people are dying now with the vaccine than before without it.

I've only been following daily stats in Ontario, since I live there.

People here that are double dosed make up around 70%. So around 30% of people here are unvaccinated or single dosed. Out of our daily cases, 80% of them come from the 30% unvaccinated / single dosed.

Ratio is around the same for people in icu or hospitalized.

The fact is that you have the minority of the population taking up most of the cases and hospitalizations.

I still don't believe in mandatory vaccinations. People deserve to have a choice imo.

Cleverness

09-05-2021, 08:41 PM

Reading this thread was sad. Like watching one adult (Cleverness) try to reason with a group of toddlers.

Thanks.

I'll keep trying to get through to people here. Are you still a big fan of Trump's National State of Emergency, Trump's Social Distancing Guidelines, Trump's Mask Urgency, Trump's Travel Bans, The Trump Vaccine, etc? I know you've been a big fan of Trump's plan to pull out of Afghanistan, which Biden has executed, but are you still a big fan of Trump's War on Covid-19?

Interesting assumptions there.

How many infections did school closures prevent from March 2020 to June 2021?

How many infections have masks prevented so far, or through June 2021?

Doomsday Dallas

09-05-2021, 09:14 PM

https://www.pennlive.com/nation-world/2021/08/texas-anti-mask-freedom-defender-dies-of-covid-at-age-30.html

Every time I see that story posted... I'm going to post a story of somebody who has died after taking the vaccine.

https://wset.com/news/coronavirus/utah-woman-39-dies-4-days-after-2nd-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-autopsy-ordered-kassidi-kurill

SALT LAKE CITY (KUTV) - During a KUTV investigation into COVID-19 vaccine side effects and where to report them, we found four reported deaths, filed by Utah families and their caregivers to the CDC’s Vaccine Adverse Reporting System.

One case stood out, a 39-year-old single mom from Ogden who died four days after her second dose of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine. Her family, who is now waiting on an autopsy, held a celebration of life for her this past weekend.

Kassidi Kurill by all accounts was healthy, happy and “had more energy” than just about anyone else around her. She had no known health problems or pre-existing conditions.

https://kutv.com/resources/media/09e9d2c7-d424-4a22-a1b3-2437e3eae50d-medium16x9_heidiphoto2.jpg

tontoz

09-05-2021, 09:29 PM

Every time I see that story posted... I'm going to post a story of somebody who has died after taking the vaccine.

https://wset.com/news/coronavirus/utah-woman-39-dies-4-days-after-2nd-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-autopsy-ordered-kassidi-kurill

https://kutv.com/resources/media/09e9d2c7-d424-4a22-a1b3-2437e3eae50d-medium16x9_heidiphoto2.jpg

. Investigation finds 'no deaths' in Utah caused by COVID-19 vaccines

SALT LAKE CITY (KUTV) — Utah's Office of the Medical Examiner issued a statement Thursday stating that no deaths in Utah have been caused by COVID-19 vaccines to date. The statement was sent out by the Utah Department of Health and was a joint statement from both government entities.

The OME said it has completed investigations into reported deaths where those who died had recently received the COVID-19 vaccine. Legally the office is required to keep details of these investigations confidential unless the late person's family provides permission for the office to discuss the findings publicly. The statement says:

The OME has determined there have been NO DEATHS caused by the COVID-19 vaccines to date in Utah. The OME is committed to investigating any deaths that fall under its jurisdiction where decedents had recently received the COVID-19 vaccine.

https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/investigation-finds-no-deaths-in-utah-caused-by-covid-19-vaccines

Doomsday Dallas

09-05-2021, 09:57 PM

https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/investigation-finds-no-deaths-in-utah-caused-by-covid-19-vaccines

Jeez... I wonder how she died then.... and the other three people for that matter.

I guess we can chalk that one up as another coincidence.

But can't chalk this one up as a coincidence:

New Zealand has reported what it believes to be its first death linked to the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine.

An independent vaccine safety monitoring board said the woman's death was "probably" due to myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle.

It also noted there were other medical issues which could have "influenced the outcome following vaccination".

European regulators say myocarditis is a "very rare" side effect and that the vaccine's benefits outweigh the risks.

The official cause of death has not yet been determined.

However, the Covid-19 Vaccine Independent Safety Monitoring Board said the myocarditis was "probably due to vaccination".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58380867

Doomsday Dallas

09-05-2021, 10:00 PM

2020: your neighbor dies in a house fire = covid death
2021: you die 30 min after the vaccine = pre-existing conditions

Cleverness

09-05-2021, 10:16 PM

2020: your neighbor dies in a house fire = covid death
2021: you die 30 min after the vaccine = pre-existing conditions

That's why I continue to educate people that the median age of death with Covid-19 is above average life expectancy.

16 million people die of infectious diseases every year, many of whom are children. millions of children dying of starvation/malnutrition all the time. nobody ever gave a ****. :rolleyes:

If you're just trying to get the point across, it would be easier to go by the CDC's latest estimate (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html)

99.999% survival rate in people 0-17

99.96% survival rate in people under 49

99.94% survival rate in people 18-49 years old

Not sure I agree with the CDC that only 1 in 1.3 Covid-19 deaths were reported, though as we've seen, labeling deaths w/ Covid can be tricky when almost all of the people dying were also dying of other causes.

8Ball

09-05-2021, 10:50 PM

Reading this thread was sad. Like watching one adult (tonztoz) try to reason with a group of toddlers.

Yeah. Manny is such a dumb **** its insane.

They built universities so that kids like him don't have to stay uneducated and stupid their wholes lives.

8Ball

09-05-2021, 10:52 PM

Look at these graphs and tell me vaccines "ain't doing shit". You guys are so wilfully ignorant.

https://i.ibb.co/x6prp22/Screen-Shot-2021-09-05-at-10-51-08-PM.png

https://i.ibb.co/Vvf08W4/Screen-Shot-2021-09-05-at-10-51-18-PM.png

Oh look, vaccines work!

Manny98

09-06-2021, 12:31 AM

I don't give a **** if they work or not

I am not getting vaccinated for something that I am already immune from.

Even if I wasn't immune I am still not getting vaccinated, **** that shit

8Ball

09-06-2021, 08:51 AM

I dont give a shit if your dumbass doesnt get vaccinated. You being dead or alive means nothing to me.

Read the thread title.

OP said vaccines aint doing shit. Idiot like u agrees. I post evidence proving vaccines do shit. The end.

tontoz

09-06-2021, 09:03 AM

I don't give a **** if they work or not

I am not getting vaccinated for something that I am already immune from.

Even if I wasn't immune I am still not getting vaccinated, **** that shit

This just highlights the selfishness of the anti vax crowd. They don't care if they infect other people who might be in high risk groups it is all me me me.

But if they get really sick from covid they expect to get the same hospital care as vaccinated patients and they expect someone else to pay the bills.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 09:16 AM

This just highlights the selfishness of the anti vax crowd. They don't care if they infect other people who might be in high risk groups it is all me me me.

But if they get really sick from covid they expect to get the same hospital care as vaccinated patients and they expect someone else to pay the bills.
1. Even if your vaccinated you can still get Covid

2. Even if you're vaccinated you can still infect other people

3. You're protected anyway so why you so worried about other people, you can die from the flu as well don't see you people wanting flu shots mandated, hypocrisy right there

4. I haven't infected anyone, I live with someone who's vaccinated and they test negative everytime

tontoz

09-06-2021, 09:20 AM

1. Even if your vaccinated you can still get Covid

2. Even if you're vaccinated you can still infect other people

3. You're protected anyway so why you so worried about other people, you can die from the flu as well don't see you people wanting flu shots mandated, hypocrisy right there

4. I haven't infected anyone, I live with someone who's vaccinated and they test negative everytime

Using your logic why would anyone wear a seat belt? After all you can still be killed in a car wreck if you are wearing a seat belt so why wear them?

And of course you want someone else to pay for your hospital stay if you get covid. It is all about your freedom, until you need help.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 09:25 AM

Using your logic why would anyone wear a seat belt? After all you can still be killed in a car wreck if you are wearing a seat belt so why wear them?

And of course you want someone else to pay for your hospital stay if you get covid. It is all about your freedom, until you need help.
Nobody's going to hospital I never get sick

Using your logic we should mandate the flu shot as well, what haven't we, flu kills 100s of thousands a year :confusedshrug:

We should also mandate weight loss programs for obesity since that kills millions a year and puts a strain on the healthcare system which effects everyone

tontoz

09-06-2021, 09:35 AM

Nobody's going to hospital I never get sick

Using your logic we should mandate the flu shot as well, what haven't we, flu kills 100s of thousands a year :confusedshrug:

We should also mandate weight loss programs for obesity since that kills millions a year and puts a strain on the healthcare system which effects everyone

In some states flu shots are mandatory for health care workers or to go to school. Employers have the right to mandate flu shots but generally just encourage them. Every year i get emails about them and people come to our office to give out the shots. I haven't gotten one though.

However the flu has been around a long time so we have developed some herd immunity to it. It isn't nearly as dangerous as covid. It isn't just the risk of death with covid. It can mess with your lungs.

Jason Tatum got covid. Even after he recovered he was having so much trouble with his breathing that he started using an inhaler. He doesn't have asthma.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 09:45 AM

In some states flu shots are mandatory for health care workers or to go to school. Employers have the right to mandate flu shots but generally just encourage them. Every year i get emails about them and people come to our office to give out the shots. I haven't gotten one though.

However the flu has been around a long time so we have developed some herd immunity to it. It isn't nearly as dangerous as covid. It isn't just the risk of death with covid. It can mess with your lungs.

Jason Tatum got covid. Even after he recovered he was having so much trouble with his breathing that he started using an inhaler. He doesn't have asthma.
Ok and flu cause long term lung damage as well

And COVID-19 is just a more deadly variant of Coranvirus which has been around forever. It's not really a new thing

Who gets to decide what's deadly or not if they can potentially kill people then the vaccines for them should be both mandatory going by your logic

tontoz

09-06-2021, 10:01 AM

Ok and flu cause long term lung damage as well

And COVID-19 is just a more deadly variant of Coranvirus which has been around forever. It's not really a new thing

Who gets to decide what's deadly or not if they can potentially kill people then the vaccines for them should be both mandatory going by your logic

Very simple. The people paying the bills are the ones who are going to decide what is mandatory and what isn't.

My cousin told me once about some advice his father gave him before entering the workforce. He said companies are in business to make money for themselves. If you don't like some of the things they do there is nothing you can do about it other than to start your own business. Then you can make the rules.

If you want to work in corporate america you will have to get the vaccine. Companies give no fs about your freedom. If you don't like it go start your own business. Good luck with that.

PistonsFan#21

09-06-2021, 10:24 AM

Using your logic why would anyone wear a seat belt? After all you can still be killed in a car wreck if you are wearing a seat belt so why wear them?

And of course you want someone else to pay for your hospital stay if you get covid. It is all about your freedom, until you need help.

If you had a 99.97% chance of surviving a car wreck there would be no mandate for seatbelts and you probably wouldn't bother putting 1 on if it wasn't required by the law.

Also your hospital stay for Covid example doesn't make sense. So if you got lung cancer from smoking, diabetes from bad diet habits, etc you shouldn't expect someone else to pay for your hospital stay either?

tontoz

09-06-2021, 10:29 AM

If you had a 99.97% chance of surviving a car wreck there would be no mandate for seatbelts and you probably wouldn't bother putting 1 on if it wasn't required by the law.

Also your hospital stay for Covid example doesn't make sense. So if you got lung cancer from smoking, diabetes from bad diet habits, etc you shouldn't expect someone else to pay for your hospital stay either?

If there was a shot that would significantly reduce smoking addiction, diabetes or obesity then yes it would be mandatory.

Delta Air Lines (DAL), for example, recently announced that it will begin implementing a $200 monthly surcharge for all unvaccinated employees beginning Nov. 1.

"The average hospital stay for COVID-19 has cost Delta $50,000 per person," CEO Ed Bastian wrote in a memo. "This surcharge will be necessary to address the financial risk the decision to not vaccinate is creating for our company. In recent weeks since the rise of the B.1.617.2 variant, all Delta employees who have been hospitalized with COVID were not fully vaccinated ."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vaccine-mandates-america-122151333.html

PistonsFan#21

09-06-2021, 10:45 AM

If there was a shot that would significantly reduce smoking addiction, diabetes or obesity then yes it would be mandatory.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vaccine-mandates-america-122151333.html

A shot to reduce diabetes and obesity? How about reducing fast food consumption and focusing on healthier diet habits. People have the choice to order take out meals and buy junk food at grocery stores but they aren't denied treatment if they get sick over the years and it leads to obesity.

There is steroid injections available to significantly reduce your bodyfat %. Where are the mandates for obese people to get them?

tontoz

09-06-2021, 10:52 AM

A shot to reduce diabetes and obesity? How about reducing fast food consumption and focusing on healthier diet habits. People have the choice to order take out meals and buy junk food at grocery stores but they aren't denied treatment if they get sick over the years and it leads to obesity.

There is steroid injections available to significantly reduce your bodyfat %. Where are the mandates for obese people to get them?

If the weight loss was significant and took only a few weeks then it probably would be. I doubt that is the case though.:oldlol:

Also fast food companies are making a lot of money from fat people. Who is making money off people who refuse vaccinations, other than hospitals?

Off the Court

09-06-2021, 11:01 AM

If you think the vaccine isn't doing sh** then you aren't paying attention. The people dying aren't vaccinated. That is why companies are mandating the vaccines, so they don't have to pay the hospital stays.

People are are out and about more now than last year Schools are open. Your reasoning is laughably bad

These are the numbers from Indiana:
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/kpcnews.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/26/b263f094-fd5c-5c57-9f6a-946fab8ab4c1/6116badf90f0a.image.png

Oregon:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3Dt5cYVEAYI2a5.jpg

Wisconsin:
https://gray-wbay-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/kQPEkGC4pHhEyM7zwAhDOg_LTNc=/980x0/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gray/2DNOSGGG7FEUXHS2A6ODJAG5J4.png

Without the vaccine the deaths would probably be 5x what they are currently because 80% of the countries seniors are fully vaccinated.

tontoz

09-06-2021, 11:07 AM

^^^^ yeah the evidence is overwhelming. I am going to use those charts in other threads. The ignorance I've seen on here is amazing.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 11:11 AM

If there was a shot that would significantly reduce smoking addiction, diabetes or obesity then yes it would be mandatory.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vaccine-mandates-america-122151333.html
It's called a healthy diet

Let's mandate healthy diets for the obese since we care so much about people's health :rockon:

tpols

09-06-2021, 11:15 AM

It's called a healthy diet

Let's mandate healthy diets for the obese since we care so much about people's health :rockon:

They were giving out free Krispy kreme donuts and McDonald's quarter pounders if you got the vaccine.

Shit is hilarious. :lol

tontoz

09-06-2021, 11:23 AM

It's called a healthy diet

Let's mandate healthy diets for the obese since we care so much about people's health :rockon:

Not very practical since losing weight is hard and takes a long time. It also gets harder as you get older. Obesity isn't contagious either.

Pretty hard to lose a lot of weight on diet alone. I did see a guy lose 60 pounds just through diet. Most people have to combine diet and exercise to lose a lot of weight.

tontoz

09-06-2021, 11:27 AM

They were giving out free Krispy kreme donuts and McDonald's quarter pounders if you got the vaccine.

Shit is hilarious. :lol

Why do you think they are doing that?

It's because the unvaccinated are prolonging the pandemic and hurting their business.

I used to like quarter pounders and still love doughnuts. Can't remember the last time I had a quarter pounder. The only time I eat doughnuts was at the.office which was too often.

The lockdown did help me lose the extra 10 pounds i was carrying due to a sweet tooth.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 11:41 AM

Not very practical since losing weight is hard and takes a long time. It also gets harder as you get older. Obesity isn't contagious either.

Pretty hard to lose a lot of weight on diet alone. I did see a guy lose 60 pounds just through diet. Most people have to combine diet and exercise to lose a lot of weight.

Obesity also kills way more than Covid

If we care so much about people's health it should be mandatory to have a healthy BMI

And yes obesity is contagious their unhealthy diet and lifestyle rubs off onto their kids.

It also puts a massive strain on the healthcare system, you're way more likely to be hospitalized if you're obese

If we're mandating Covid vaccines then you agree we should mandate healthy BMIs

Manny98

09-06-2021, 11:42 AM

They were giving out free Krispy kreme donuts and McDonald's quarter pounders if you got the vaccine.

Shit is hilarious. :lol

Wow :oldlol:

tontoz

09-06-2021, 11:48 AM

Obesity also kills way more than Covid

If we care so much about people's health it should be mandatory to have a healthy BMI

And yes obesity is contagious their unhealthy diet and lifestyle rubs off onto their kids.

It also puts a massive strain on the healthcare system, you're way more likely to be hospitalized if you're obese

If we're mandating Covid vaccines then you agree we should mandate healthy BMIs

That would work for me at 6'2" 185 pounds but isnt practical. I am not going to catch obesity from someone near me coughing. We don't have to shut down the economy due to fat people

I lost 30 pounds a few years back. It took several months and was tough even though I was already going to the gym.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 12:01 PM

You didn't have to shut down the economy due to a virus with a 99%+ survival rate

See Sweden

Off the Court

09-06-2021, 12:19 PM

^^^^ yeah the evidence is overwhelming. I am going to use those charts in other threads. The ignorance I've seen on here is amazing.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/66/db/ba/66dbba0829f44837d0a7788ec6b3a1d6.jpg

Don't even bother.

MRNA is now close to entering trials for cancer immunotherapy. It is a game changer. Let the naysayers naysay while the rest of us live to be 200.

https://molecular-cancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12943-021-01348-0

tontoz

09-06-2021, 12:21 PM

You didn't have to shut down the economy due to a virus with a 99%+ survival rate

See Sweden

Over 650k people have died here from COVID. Sweden's death rate is worse than ours, and far higher than it's neighbors, so no that isn't a viable option here.

See Florida

Chick Stern

09-06-2021, 12:25 PM

You didn't have to shut down the economy due to a virus with a 99%+ survival rate

See Sweden
Sweden had among the worst per-capita COVID-19 mortality in Europe.

FultzNationRISE

09-06-2021, 12:38 PM

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/66/db/ba/66dbba0829f44837d0a7788ec6b3a1d6.jpg

Don't even bother.

MRNA is now close to entering trials for cancer immunotherapy. It is a game changer. Let the naysayers naysay while the rest of us live to be 200.

https://molecular-cancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12943-021-01348-0

Thats the point.

Humanity will evolve GROSSLY in the 21st century. People dont talk about this enough nor appreciate the profundity of its implications.

Cancer and other diseases absolutely will be cured this century. This will have enormous environmental impact among other things. We’re going to start moving out into space as well, which may require genetic “upgrades” which are going to become viable.

The Covid overhaul is a coordinated global preparation for a brave new world. It is not a accident that happened bc whoops, somebody ate a bat and our leaders just happened to decide to overreact by 5000%. They are drumming up the crisis as a launching point for prodding an inertial public into moving toward the future.

If we could just call it what it is, we could theoretically avoid all the drama, altho a democratic discussion of the future also has its own fundamental obstacles. General consensus on a plan of action would be extremely difficult. So the people with the means to do so are simply bypassing it.

And they have hordes of small minded plebian enforcers at their disposal to make it so.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 12:38 PM

Sweden had among the worst per-capita COVID-19 mortality in Europe.

No it didn't

Belgium,UK and Italy had much worse despite enforcing lockdowns

tpols

09-06-2021, 12:46 PM

Why do you think they are doing that?

It's because the unvaccinated are prolonging the pandemic and hurting their business.

I used to like quarter pounders and still love doughnuts. Can't remember the last time I had a quarter pounder. The only time I eat doughnuts was at the.office which was too often.

The lockdown did help me lose the extra 10 pounds i was carrying due to a sweet tooth.

How daft can you possibly be? They claim to care so much about getting everybody healthy that they're willing to bribe you with some of the most unhealthy food on the planet.

We are truly living in an idiocracy. :facepalm

Also tontoz... McDonald's isn't hurting for business. Their stock has skyrocketed since March 2020. They've been making MORE money in the plandemic because small business lost market share to big business.... so even your logic doesnt add up.

Doomsday Dallas

09-06-2021, 12:46 PM

tontoz

09-06-2021, 12:51 PM

How daft can you possibly be? They claim to care so much about getting everybody healthy that they're willing to bribe you with some of the most unhealthy food on the planet.

We are truly living in an idiocracy. :facepalm

Krispy Kreme never claimed to be a health food joint. :lol

I think you are missing the point.

Their business is selling food. Yes much of that food is unhealthy but that is a separate discussion.

They are giving people a financial incentive to get vaccinated because the people who are unvaccinated are hurting their business.

Rocket

09-06-2021, 12:53 PM

Doomsday Dallas

09-06-2021, 01:10 PM

tpols

09-06-2021, 01:17 PM

Krispy Kreme never claimed to be a health food joint. :lol

I think you are missing the point.

Their business is selling food. Yes much of that food is unhealthy but that is a separate discussion.

They are giving people a financial incentive to get vaccinated because the people who are unvaccinated are hurting their business.

No youre missing the point and youre lying to boot.

McDonald's stock price is up massive since March 2020. They've been getting MORE business and making more money with lockdowns because they've never been locked down but other small businesses with less robust takeout systems have been. So they captured more market share with lockdown and have seen their value increase massively.

The hypocrisy is palpable that they offer unhealthy food for free under the guise of being health concious and encouraging vaccination. Total joke.

This world has too many stupid and gullible people in it smh.

tontoz

09-06-2021, 01:27 PM

No youre missing the point and youre lying to boot.

McDonald's stock price is up massive since March 2020. They've been getting MORE business and making more money with lockdowns because they've never been locked down but other small businesses with less robust takeout systems have been. So they captured more market share with lockdown and have seen their value increase massively.

The hypocrisy is palpable that they offer unhealthy food for free under the guise of being health concious and encouraging vaccination. Total joke.

This world has too many stupid and gullible people in it smh.

MCdonalds stock price might be doing fine. The franchisees not so much:

McDonald's warns franchisees impacted by coronavirus could have to downsize or sell
Company has reportedly set aside $40 million in aid for owners

McDonald's franchisees may need to sell their businesses due to coronavirus-induced financial struggles.

McDonald's says it'll take millions of dollars to help struggling U.S. franchisees, urging that some will need to downsize or shutter locations, Bloomberg News reports.

The fast-food chain has set aside $40 million in restaurant aid for owners dealing with the financial impact of COVID-19 lockdowns, documents and internal emails obtained by Bloomberg News said.

CORONAVIRUS TENSIONS MEAN ESSENTIAL WORKERS FACE ANGER ON STREETS

Temporary funding will be available on a case-by-case basis and franchisee owners must work with McDonald's to "find a suitable financial solution," according to Bloomberg.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/mcdonalds-franchisees-coronavirus

tpols

09-06-2021, 01:35 PM

tontoz

09-06-2021, 01:40 PM

McDonald's stock spikes to new record after blockbuster Q1 earnings (https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/mc-donalds-hits-record-high-after-a-bombshell-earnings-report-150809478.html)

Yea.... Bullshit. They were offering free hamburgers for vax when their company wide earnings were at all time highs. Nice try though.

You do realize that McDonald's business model involves franchises, right? Their corporate earnings won't mean squat to a franchise owner that depends heavily on lunch time traffic from nearby offices.

Cleverness

09-06-2021, 01:45 PM

This just highlights the selfishness of the anti vax crowd.

Lmao, says the guy who wants to force medical intrusions into other people's bodies without even having a cost/benefit analysis, all for an endemic, widespread, seasonal coronavirus with a median age of death above average life expectancy.

What are the actual benefits are of forced vaccination, numbers wise?

Suppose the unvaccinated (group A) are forced to become vaccinated. How many from group A would have to become vaccinated to save 1 life from the group that voluntarily chose to become vaccinated (group B)? And over what timeframe?

Suppose forcing person A to be injected with a drug reduced the chances of person B to die by 0.001% over the course of 12 months. Would it be worth it to force person A to be injected? At what point would it be worth it?

Vragrant

09-06-2021, 01:47 PM

The tide is now turning as we see the countries with the highest vaccine rates have the highest total Covid hospitalizations and deaths. It is not a coincidence that Covid is exploding here as more and more people foolishly take these experimental vaccines that were rushed to market for a disease that has close to a 100% recovery rate. ADE, or Antibody Dependent Enhancement, is something we will hear about more and more as the tide turns and it is the vaccinated that are dying in mass.

Then you add that to the fact that the vaccine manufacturers are shielded from liability. The government coordinated with the vaccine companies on that to expedite the rollout. So, if you have side effects or complications from the vaccine, you are screwed. You can't sue or do anything.

There was a study recently out of Israel, which has one of the highest vaccinations rates in the world. They found that natural immunity is more effective against the Delta variant than the vaccine in preventing reinfection

Natural immunity from contracting coronavirus provided Israelis with longer-lasting protection against the Delta variant than two shots of the Pfizer vaccine given early this year, new Israeli research suggests.

The study by Maccabi Healthcare Service looked at individuals who had either gotten two shots of the vaccine by the end of February or tested positive for COVID-19 by that time.

It compared 46,035 Maccabi members who caught the coronavirus at some point during the pandemic and the same number of double-vaccinated people.
August 25, 2021. (Yonatan Sindel/Flash90)
Natural immunity from contracting coronavirus provided Israelis with longer-lasting protection against the Delta variant than two shots of the Pfizer vaccine given early this year, new Israeli research suggests.

The study by Maccabi Healthcare Service looked at individuals who had either gotten two shots of the vaccine by the end of February or tested positive for COVID-19 by that time.

It compared 46,035 Maccabi members who caught the coronavirus at some point during the pandemic and the same number of double-vaccinated people.

People who had two vaccine shots had a six-fold higher chance of getting infected with Delta than patients who hadn’t been vaccinated but previously contracted the coronavirus, according to the research.

The study, published online but not yet peer reviewed, is the largest of its kind. It doesn’t take booster shots — now widely given in Israel — into account, but given that most of the world is still giving a two-dose regimen, has international relevance.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/study-covid-recovery-gave-israelis-longer-lasting-delta-defense-than-vaccines/

tpols

09-06-2021, 01:51 PM

Then you add that to the fact that the vaccine manufacturers are shielded from liability. The government coordinated with the vaccine companies on that to expedite the rollout. So, if you have side effects or complications from the vaccine companies down the road you are screwed. You can't sue or do anything.

Yup... they explicitly (and illegally) have denied all legal liability. Pfizer and FDA have swapped top chairman as well. The corruption is unbelievable and right in our face. Pure facism. Coordination by private + public sector to groom and control the people in any way they want.

And now they have an army of sheep to shame and guilt trip people into taking a shot that has zero long term human clinical trials. (5+ years to study long terms effects) Its amazing.

Cleverness

09-06-2021, 01:55 PM

RE data on Covid-19 hospitalizations

Again, the problem is the RCTs never tested for reduced hospitalization/death with vaccine. The best study we have showed that more people died in the vaccine group than in the control group (though not statistically significant). I do believe there's enough data that shows that the vaccine reduces risk of being counted as a hospitalization with Covid-19, but not necessarily hospitalization overall. Part of the issue is separating those who were admitted primarily for Covid-19 (and would not have been hospitalized otherwise) and those who were in with Covid-19 and would have been hospitalized regardless of vaccination. For example:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-GTLLCVgAQhUU_?format=jpg&name=medium

Furthermore, another thing that needs to be made clear is the absolute risk reduction of hospitalization & death with vaccination vs without, over say a 6-12 month timeframe. This should give people a better idea of whether or not the vaccine is right for them. Here's the CDC's opinion:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497275-Anti-Vaxxers-are-Low-IQ-Prove-me-Wrong&p=14431224&viewfull=1#post14431224

Still waiting on tontoz to back up one of his other outrageous claims here:

Interesting assumptions there.

How many infections did school closures prevent from March 2020 to June 2021?

How many infections have masks prevented so far, or through June 2021?

Cleverness

09-06-2021, 02:09 PM

RE charts comparing cases/deaths from 2020 to 2021.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9hLGyNXMAEYWAY?format=png&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-gHvpHVEAISQ7e?format=jpg&name=medium

Data from Israel, one of the most vaccinated countries in the world.

It's quite surprising to see given the plausibility that the most vulnerable died the earliest and the narrative surrounding Covid-19 vaccines.

The decoupling of cases & deaths could be due to the most vulnerable dying off earliest, as well as testing criteria?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/08/06/cdc_director_vaccines_no_longer_prevent_you_from_s preading_covid.html#

Here's the CDC Director saying that the "Vaccines No Longer Prevent You From Spreading COVID."

So we have a vaccine that doesn't prevent you from being infected, transmitting it, BUT may reduce the likelihood of severe disease.

This doesn't sound like a vaccine as much as it does a preventive drug one must take routinely (eg booster shots).

Cleverness

09-06-2021, 02:11 PM

People who are against forced vaccination with the Covid-19 "vaccine" are SeLfIsH

Expanding on what I wrote previously on the CDC directors latest announcement...

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v3

"[...] no significant differences in Ct values by vaccination status. Notably, 212 of 311 (68%) of individuals with infection despite full vaccination had extremely low Ct values <25, consistent with high viral loads."

Cleverness

09-06-2021, 02:16 PM

One more on the decoupling of UK cases/deaths

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009243/Technical_Briefing_20.pdf

Since Feb 1, the UK's 0.033% (48/147,612) case fatality ratio for Delta under age 50 unvaccinated is 40% lower than their observed Alpha under age 50 (vax+unvax) CFR of 0.056% (66/118,178).

The CFR is 40% lower in unvaccinated. Again, absolutely plausible that the most vulnerable people simply became infected and died earlier than the less vulnerable.

Though, like I said, changes in testing also had an effect.

tontoz

09-06-2021, 02:42 PM

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20210906-143755.jpg

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-coronavirus-vaccines-hospital-cases-rates-unvaccinated

Consider that people over 65 have the highest rate of vaccination.

Doomsday Dallas

09-06-2021, 03:01 PM

Doomsday Dallas

09-06-2021, 03:05 PM

https://i1.wp.com/vaxopedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/geert-bossche.png

https://static-3.bitchute.com/live/cover_images/fXwWSSH91bS2/eBnssDZuoK6f_640x360.jpg

https://rumble.com/vl5il4-vaccine-disaster-ahead.html

Anybody have a resume better than his?

tontoz

09-06-2021, 03:13 PM

So do we have to watch a 17 minute vid to hear what the guy said?

tontoz

09-06-2021, 03:22 PM

https://www.bitchute.com/video/ZSo9xj7v4NMv/

Florida nurse talks about being on the front lines

The headline is priceless "Delta caused by quakccines"

Problem is that the Delta variant was first identified in December 2020, before the vaccine rollout.

:facepalm

Doomsday Dallas

09-06-2021, 03:43 PM

The headline is priceless "Delta caused by quakccines"

Problem is that the Delta variant was first identified in December 2020, before the vaccine rollout.

:facepalm

So you are going to disregard her testimony because of the headline of the video?

that makes sense.

let's get some stats from a government official... since we all love the government so much.

https://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2021/09/west-virginia-vaccinated-people-dropping-like-flies-3597096.html

https://wvpress.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/justice-1.png

Doomsday Dallas

09-06-2021, 03:50 PM

Natural causes now blamed for doctor who died two weeks after Pfizer vaccine

https://nypost.com/2021/04/08/natural-causes-now-blamed-for-doc-who-died-after-pfizer-vaccine/

A Miami Beach doctor who died 16 days after getting a Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine in January appears to have expired from natural causes, officials say.

An autopsy on Dr. Gregory Michael, 56, has concluded he died from a complications of immune thrombocytopenia, a condition that prevents blood from clotting and which can cause internal bleeding.

There is no medical certainty that the shot had anything to do with the condition, the Florida Department of Health has determined in a joint investigation with the CDC, which reviewed samples from the autopsy.

https://mezzogiorno.altervista.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/f24da5fd-4fe1-4240-8b10-e68237ea443c-large16x9_0108_doctor.jpeg

Natural Causes... sure. I believe it.

https://c.tenor.com/ZFc20z8DItkAAAAM/facepalm-really.gif

tontoz

09-06-2021, 03:58 PM

So you are going to disregard her testimony because of the headline of the video?

that makes sense.

let's get some stats from a government official... since we all love the government so much.

https://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2021/09/west-virginia-vaccinated-people-dropping-like-flies-3597096.html

https://wvpress.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/justice-1.png

Funny that clip is only a minute long and doesn't mention unvaccinated people at all. No agenda there :lol

Here is the full hour long vid:

https://youtu.be/XXQ64M1-ch4

. “We know that the overwhelming majority – the overwhelming majority – of the people that are hospitalized in the ICUs, our deaths; they’re unvaccinated,” Gov. Justice said. “You have got to get vaccinated. There is nothing your life that is as important as getting yourself vaccinated.”

Can't imagine why the anti vaxers left that part out.

:roll:

They are actually giving out prizes for people to get vaccinated at the 19:30 mark.

:roll:

https://governor.wv.gov/News/press-releases/2021/Pages/COVID-19-UPDATE-Hospitalizations-continue-to-surge-mostly-among-the-unvaccinated.aspx

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 04:11 PM

Funny that clip is only a minute long and doesn't mention unvaccinated people at all. No agenda there :lol

Here is the full hour long vid:

https://youtu.be/XXQ64M1-ch4

Can't imagine why the anti vaxers left that part out.

:roll:

They are actually giving out prizes for people to get vaccinated.

https://governor.wv.gov/News/press-releases/2021/Pages/COVID-19-UPDATE-Hospitalizations-continue-to-surge-mostly-among-the-unvaccinated.aspx

Why do u care though? Why do u care if i or anyone dosn't want to take the vaccine? More and more studies are coming out on how transmitting isn't effected much my vaccinations so the that's not a goid argument. Plus people have been putting others at risk forever and it's never been a problem before. Everytime u jump in your car your endangering others. Everytime u go anywhere with the flu your endangering others. Life is full of risks to our life and health but we choose everyday to accept them because that's life. The coronavirus should be no different. If you want to risk it like everything else that's fine don't get the vaccine or wear masks or wash your hands. If don't want to risk it do the opposite. It shouldn't be a big deal.

tontoz

09-06-2021, 04:19 PM

Why do u care though? Why do u care if i or anyone dosn't want to take the vaccine? More and more studies are coming out on how transmitting isn't effected much my vaccinations so the that's not a goid argument. Plus people have been putting others at risk forever and it's never been a problem before. Everytime u jump in your car your endangering others. Everytime u go anywhere with the flu your endangering others. Life is full of risks to our life and health but we choose everyday to accept them because that's life. The coronavirus should be no different. If you want to risk it like everything else that's fine don't get the vaccine or wear masks or wash your hands. If don't want to risk it do the opposite. It shouldn't be a big deal.

I am not the one who brought up the vid in the first place. It just shows how the antivaxers try to twist reality.

Transmission is absolutely less for.people that are vaccinated. It isn't arguable any more.

Why do I care? Because these anti vax nuts are prolonging the pandemic. Their hospital stays are a drain on the economy not to mention businesses that depend.on foot traffic.

Are you volunteering to pay for the hospital stays of the unvaccinated? Why don't you start a GoFundMe page for the antivaxers to pay for their hospital stays. Let's see them put their money where their mouth is.

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 04:32 PM

I am not the one who brought up the vid in the first place. It just shows how the antivaxers try to twist reality.

Transmission is absolutely less for.people that are vaccinated. It isn't arguable any more.

Why do I care? Because these anti vax nuts are prolonging the pandemic. Their hospital stays are a drain on the economy not to mention businesses that depend.on foot traffic.

Are you volunteering to pay for the hospital stays of the unvaccinated? Why don't you start a GoFundMe page for the antivaxers to pay for their hospital stays. Let's see them put their money where their mouth is.

The anti vaxxers aren't prolonging anything. Like the flu covid is never going away. It's gonna be something we have to learn to live with like the flu and car accidents.

As far the drain on hospitals there's an easy answer. If u don't have the vaccine u go to the back of the line if you need to be treated and the hospital is overwhelmed.

tontoz

09-06-2021, 04:38 PM

The anti vaxxers aren't prolonging anything. Like the flu covid is never going away. It's gonna be something we have to learn to live with like the flu and car accidents.

As far the drain on hospitals there's an easy answer. If u don't have the vaccine u go to the back of the line if you need to be treated and the hospital is overwhelmed.

I agree with that and it is happening in Australia, but not here. I saw a story the other day about a vet that died from a gallstone because they didn't have an available ICU bed.

That vid brings up hospital staffing. Apparently WV is losing healthcare workers to other states that can pay more.

Doomsday Dallas

09-06-2021, 04:50 PM

Funny that clip is only a minute long and doesn't mention unvaccinated people at all. No agenda there :lol

It doesn't have to...

Here is the title of the thread: Anyone believe Covid is very serious but at same time the vaccine ain't doing shit

So here we have 26% increase in positive cases among those that have been vaccinated....

21% increase in hospitalization of the fully vaccinated

25% increase in death of the fully vaccinated...

I guess the vaccine seems to be working great by your standards... not by mine.

Doomsday Dallas

09-06-2021, 04:57 PM

https://dimock.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/vax_faq.png

How long does protection from the vaccines last?

Answer: We don't have that data yet.

Tontoz will be back here next year defending the need for Covid Pills.

Doomsday Dallas

09-06-2021, 05:01 PM

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/372389_996cddee2cde47428d39b00e0fc8609d~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_960,h_900,al_c,q_90/372389_996cddee2cde47428d39b00e0fc8609d~mv2.jpg

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 05:02 PM

I agree with that and it is happening in Australia, but not here. I saw a story the other day about a vet that died from a gallstone because they didn't have an available ICU bed.

That vid brings up hospital staffing. Apparently WV is losing healthcare workers to other states that can pay more.

Well gallstones can be a result of a bad diet so maybe he died because he was unhealthy. See even that can get tricky. Should someone who treats their body like crap get preferences over non vaxxers if they need treatment?

tontoz

09-06-2021, 05:07 PM

It doesn't have to...

Here is the title of the thread: Anyone believe Covid is very serious but at same time the vaccine ain't doing shit

So here we have 26% increase in positive cases among those that have been vaccinated....

21% increase in hospitalization of the fully vaccinated

25% increase in death of the fully vaccinated...

I guess the vaccine seems to be working great by your standards... not by mine.

The problem in those numbers is that they are comparing vaccinated people to each other, not to unvaccinated people but you are too brainwashed to notice that.

He is literally begging people to get vaccinated because there are so many unvaccinated people in their hospitals. WV is not a wealthy state and they are literally giving away prizes for people to.get vaccinated.

Pretty sobering vid. It is pretty bad there, certainly a lot worse than where I live in MD.

At the 54 minute mark where he addeesses the elephant in the room.

What if you had a child or parent that was injured or sick but they couldn't get care because the hospital was filled with unvaccinated COVID patients?

Doomsday Dallas

09-06-2021, 05:08 PM

tontoz

09-06-2021, 05:14 PM

Well gallstones can be a result of a bad diet so maybe he died because he was unhealthy. See even that can get tricky. Should someone who treats their body like crap get preferences over non vaxxers if they need treatment?

Here is the full story. He did 2 tours of duty in Afghanistan so I see no reason to believe he didn't take care of himself. He was 46.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/?ftag=YHF4eb9d17

dankok8

09-06-2021, 05:14 PM

The vaccine ain't doing shit? :facepalm

tontoz

09-06-2021, 05:16 PM

this.

I suppose it's just a wild coincidence that hospitals in WV are so full of unvaccinated COVID cases that a conservative governor who is against mask mandates is giving out prizes for people to get vaccinated.

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 05:17 PM

The problem in those numbers is that they are comparing vaccinated people to each other, not to unvaccinated people but you are too brainwashed to notice that.

He is literally begging people to get vaccinated because there are so many unvaccinated people in their hospitals. WV is not a wealthy state and they are literally giving away prizes for people to.get vaccinated.

Pretty sobering vid. It is pretty bad there, certainly a lot worse than where I live in MD.

At the 54 minute mark where he addeesses the elephant in the room.

What if you had a child or parent that was injured or sick but they couldn't get care because the hospital was filled with unvaccinated COVID patients?

My problem with that last question is personal choice has never matterd before when it comes to an overwhelmed hospital. They don't say well your heart attack is due to bad choices or your leg is falling off because you got in an accident because you chose to drive to fast. Hospitals are full of people who have caused their own situation

tontoz

09-06-2021, 05:24 PM

Off the Court

09-06-2021, 05:41 PM

I suppose it's just a wild coincidence that hospitals in WV are so full of unvaccinated COVID cases that a conservative governor who is against mask mandates is giving out prizes for people to get vaccinated.
Anyone who thinks the vaccines aren't working are living in complete denial at this point.

Idaho:
https://www.idahoednews.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Vaccination-status-graphic.jpg

tontoz

09-06-2021, 05:58 PM

I am curious to see what plays out in Australia. They are basically telling unvaccinated people to f off, treating them almost like lepers. Pretty extreme.

Cleverness

09-06-2021, 06:02 PM

My problem with that last question is personal choice has never matterd before when it comes to an overwhelmed hospital. They don't say well your heart attack is due to bad choices or your leg is falling off because you got in an accident because you chose to drive to fast. Hospitals are full of people who have caused their own situation

tontoz hasn't actually proved that "hospitals have been overwhelmed due to ivermectin" or even Covid-19. He hasn't even answered basic followup questions to his assertions.

We're still waiting for him to make the case. There are 3,006 counties and 50 states in the US. How many have been overwhelmed by Covid-19 in 2020? 2021?

PS: you're also right about personal choice not mattering in the past. If only people knew how many drug addicts were getting free $100k drug treatments. tontoz would be surprised to round with some physicians in a teaching hospital and learn about how many people are admitted for:

1) accidental injury due to partying too hard or doing dumb shit
2) alcohol overdoses
3) other drug overdoses
4) attempted suicide
5) HIV, HEP C, mainly from drug abuse and lifestyle choices
6) cardiovascular complications - poor diet, exercise, sleep, along with choosing not to take their preventative meds
7) pneumonia & sepsis - usually very old/frail pts
8) non-compliance with diabetes meds & again, poor lifestyle choices
9) COPD - smokers, for example
10) even some you can argue are in there for "no fault of their own" put off routine cancer screenings and/or ignored warning signs for months and chose not to get checked out are now in for advanced cancer
11) you'll also be surprised just how many homeless people use the hospital as a motel, especially during the winter. In some cities you can walk into a hospital and find 10-20 homeless people just lying around waiting for a bed during the winter.

The #1 reason for hosp stays in the US is pregnant women btw.

No they really aren't. If that was the case then there wouldn't be space for people who are there through no fault of their own, like the person who got hit by the drunk driver.

tontoz really has NFC.

Cleverness

09-06-2021, 06:05 PM

I am curious to see what plays out in Australia. They are basically telling unvaccinated people to f off, treating them almost like lepers. Pretty extreme.

Per The Atlantic: (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/)

Intrastate travel within Australia is also severely restricted. And the government of South Australia, one of the country’s six states, developed and is now testing an app as Orwellian as any in the free world to enforce its quarantine rules. People in South Australia will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15 minutes,” Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the home-based quarantine app.”

Welcome to Australia, where they have a nationwide 18+ month lockdown (and still going) with Orwellian gov't surveillance policies for the illusion of controlling a widespread, endemic coronavirus from 2019 with a median age of death above average life expectancy & an at-risk population already fully vaccinated.

^ That's how it's "playing out"

tpols

09-06-2021, 06:34 PM

I am curious to see what plays out in Australia. They are basically telling unvaccinated people to f off, treating them almost like lepers. Pretty extreme.

Canada too. Coming to America soon. Already here in NYC.

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 06:52 PM

tontoz hasn't actually proved that "hospitals have been overwhelmed due to ivermectin" or even Covid-19. He hasn't even answered basic followup questions to his assertions.

We're still waiting for him to make the case. There are 3,006 counties and 50 states in the US. How many have been overwhelmed by Covid-19 in 2020? 2021?

PS: you're also right about personal choice not mattering in the past. If only people knew how many drug addicts were getting free $100k drug treatments. tontoz would be surprised to round with some physicians in a teaching hospital and learn about how many people are admitted for:

1) accidental injury due to partying too hard or doing dumb shit
2) alcohol overdoses
3) other drug overdoses
4) attempted suicide
5) HIV, HEP C, mainly from drug abuse and lifestyle choices
6) cardiovascular complications - poor diet, exercise, sleep, along with choosing not to take their preventative meds
7) pneumonia & sepsis - usually very old/frail pts
8) non-compliance with diabetes meds & again, poor lifestyle choices
9) COPD - smokers, for example
10) even some you can argue are in there for "no fault of their own" put off routine cancer screenings and/or ignored warning signs for months and chose not to get checked out are now in for advanced cancer
11) you'll also be surprised just how many homeless people use the hospital as a motel, especially during the winter. In some cities you can walk into a hospital and find 10-20 homeless people just lying around waiting for a bed during the winter.

The #1 reason for hosp stays in the US is pregnant women btw.

tontoz really has NFC.

Yeah man i have no problem with people who want to take the vaccine or wear masks or whatever but don't project your irrational fears on me.

And i don't say irrational because i don't believe in covid. I say irrational because these same people don't think twice about the flu or driving even though those 2 things combined are more likely to kill someone under 50 than covid is. Not to mention all the things u listed that people will engage in.

tontoz

09-06-2021, 06:56 PM

Yeah man i have no problem with people who want to take the vaccine or wear masks or whatever but don't project your irrational fears on me.

And i don't say irrational because i don't believe in covid. I say irrational because these same people don't think twice about the flu or driving even though those 2 things combined are more likely to kill someone under 50 than covid is. Not to mention all the things u listed that people will engage in.

Interesting that you bring up driving. In order to drive a car legally you need a license, insurance, registration and you have to wear a seat belt. You can be ticketed for not wearing it.

Not to mention all the traffic signs and lights

8Ball

09-06-2021, 07:30 PM

Anyone who thinks the vaccines aren't working are living in complete denial at this point.

Idaho:
https://www.idahoednews.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Vaccination-status-graphic.jpg

Crickets.

You can show them the world is round they still won't believe it.

They are the vaccine truthers at this point.

Cleverness

09-06-2021, 08:11 PM

You can show them the world is round they still won't believe it. They are the vaccine truthers at this point.

I've been asking basic followup questions to tontoz's claims as well as regarding the benefits of forced vaccination ITT and other threads.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14431187&viewfull=1#post14431187
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14432299&viewfull=1#post14432299
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14432305&viewfull=1#post14432305

#Crickets

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 08:29 PM

Interesting that you bring up driving. In order to drive a car legally you need a license, insurance, registration and you have to wear a seat belt. You can be ticketed for not wearing it.

Not to mention all the traffic signs and lights

True but I'm not forced to get any of that. I can take other means of transportation ane enjoy the same shit everyone else does who has a car. This isn't the case with covid and vaccines

tontoz

09-06-2021, 08:36 PM

True but I'm not forced to get any of that. I can take other means of transportation ane enjoy the same shit everyone else does who has a car. This isn't the case with covid and vaccines

That certainly isn't the case where I live, even moreso prior to COVID and Uber.

20 years from now I expect car ownership to be pretty much obsolete though.

Doomsday Dallas

09-06-2021, 08:43 PM

The vaccine ain't doing shit? :facepalm

Well... looks like those vaccines ain't doing $hit for Oscar De La Hoya

https://lapelotita.s3.us-east-1.wasabisys.com/2021/09/03/oscar-de-la-hoya-has-covid-19-and-will-not-768x474.jpg

tontoz

09-06-2021, 08:59 PM

Well... looks like those vaccines ain't doing $hit for Oscar De La Hoya

https://lapelotita.s3.us-east-1.wasabisys.com/2021/09/03/oscar-de-la-hoya-has-covid-19-and-will-not-768x474.jpg

Actually the vaccine may well be helping him get through this. Being a drug and alcohol abuser (which he's admitted) probably didnt help his immune system.

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 09:02 PM

That certainly isn't the case where I live, even moreso prior to COVID and Uber.

20 years from now I expect car ownership to be pretty much obsolete though.

20 years from now we might all be in trouble. The world is a messed up place and it's only getting worse

Axe

09-06-2021, 10:31 PM

Actually the vaccine may well be helping him get through this. Being a drug and alcohol abuser (which he's admitted) probably didnt help his immune system.
Idk why but magats do have a hard time believing this.

8Ball

09-07-2021, 08:56 AM

I've been asking basic followup questions to tontoz's claims as well as regarding the benefits of forced vaccination ITT and other threads.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14431187&viewfull=1#post14431187
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14432299&viewfull=1#post14432299
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14432305&viewfull=1#post14432305

#Crickets

Follow up questions ? Just you asking what the benefit of forced vaccinations are numbers wise.

We show you 80%+ of hospitalizations are amongst unvaccinated.

Anymore followup questions needed to understand basic facts?

Bronbron23

09-07-2021, 09:27 AM

Follow up questions ? Just you asking what the benefit of forced vaccinations are numbers wise.

We show you 80%+ of hospitalizations are amongst unvaccinated.

Anymore followup questions needed to understand basic facts?

Problem with that is i can show you data that shows the opposite. Alot of the new studies are showing that transmission is no different for vaxxers. There's also data coming out of Isreal showing that natural antibodies are way more effective than the vaccine. This is something the media and cdc has been lying about since this shit started. Common sense and factual data suggests that natural immunity is better and vaccines don't effect transmission but the majority has allowed fear Mongoring by the cdc and media to make them ignore facts and common sense.

The other part to this which is shameful and dangerous is the cdc and media denying this fact is giving millions of vaccines to people who have the antibodies and don't need it instead of giving it to other countries and people around the world that don't have antibodies and need it.

It's a shit show dude. That's why so many people distrust the cdc and media when it comes to the vaccine. Their incompetence or just flat out lying is literally killing people.

tontoz

09-07-2021, 01:45 PM

Pretty much sums everything up.

This was an obvious bait thread, but the number of people who ACTUALLY hold the views Mr. 8ball is trolling with... is pretty wild stuff.

Lot of really high strung folks out there motivated by insecurity and neurosis. And the corporate-political-media conglomerate can keep them under thumb with remarkable ease.

Not a great look for humanity. But a true portrait it is. Warts and all.

Right now the natural immunity vs vaccine debate is nothing but a side show. The real problem is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals.

We've got a conservative governor in WV who is against mask mandates literally begging people to get vaccinated because there are so many unvaccinated people in his hospitals. The funny part is that it was one of the antivaxers here who originally called attention to the governor, taking a one minute clip out of context while completely ignoring the other hour of the press conference.

At the 19:30 mark he announced they are giving out prizes for people to get vaccinated.

https://youtu.be/XXQ64M1-ch4

FultzNationRISE

09-07-2021, 02:04 PM

Right now the natural immunity vs vaccine debate is nothing but a side show. The real problem is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals.

We've got a conservative governor in WV who is against mask mandates literally begging people to get vaccinated because there are so many unvaccinated people in his hospitals. The funny part is that it was one of the antivaxers here who originally called attention to the governor, taking a one minute clip out of context while completely ignoring the other hour of the press conference.

At the 19:30 mark he announced they are giving out prizes for people to get vaccinated.

https://youtu.be/XXQ64M1-ch4

You remember GOP house speaker John Boehener?

He was a staunch opponent of medical marijuana use. That is, until...

Acreage Holdings, which describes itself as "one of the nation's largest, multi-state actively-managed cannabis corporations," announced Wednesday that the former U.S. representative from Ohio has joined its board of advisors, and will join the board of directors once it is formed.

Soon as he was offered a place on the board of a profitable marijuana company, suddenly he changed his tune. Imagine that!

“A conservative governor” has nothing to do with medicine and common sense. Politicians are self interested and duplicitous regardless of party. He could have any number of motivations and his public opinion is meaningless. I dont make decisions based on whether the source is red or blue.

Pointing to anything a politician does or says has no bearing on common sense analysis of an issue.

tontoz

09-07-2021, 02:16 PM

You remember GOP house speaker John Boehener?

He was a staunch opponent of medical marijuana use. That is, until...

Soon as he was offered a place on the board of a profitable marijuana company, suddenly he changed his tune. Imagine that!

“A conservative governor” has nothing to do with medicine and common sense. Politicians are self interested and duplicitous regardless of party. He could have any number of motivations and his public opinion is meaningless. I dont make decisions based on whether the source is red or blue.

Pointing to anything a politician does or says has no bearing on common sense analysis of an issue.

Right, a politician who is against mask mandates, and even says that during the vid, is just making up the hospital figures in his state. :facepalm

FultzNationRISE

09-07-2021, 02:22 PM

Right, a politician who is against mask mandates, and even says that during the vid, is just making up the hospital figures in his state. :facepalm

Drug companies dont profit from mask mandates :hammerhead:

tontoz

09-07-2021, 02:28 PM

Drug companies dont profit from mask mandates :hammerhead:

So you think he is fabricating the hospital numbers of his state in a live press conference to cater to the drug companies? Wow

I guess some people will just see what they want to see.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20210906-143755.jpg

FultzNationRISE

09-07-2021, 02:45 PM

So you think he is fabricating the hospital numbers of his state in a live press conference to cater to the drug companies? Wow

I guess some people will just see what they want to see.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_20210906-143755.jpg

Youre making irrelevant arguments.

I said nothing partisan in the post you initially responded to, yet your immediate reaction was to claim “a conservative governor said x,y, and z!!!!! Aha!!!” It’s clear your opinions are easily colored by a partisan view of government.

I pointed out that politicians can have ulterior motives and youre insisting “but hes conservative!” You said something about mask mandates and hospitals, I pointed out that opposing the mask mandates is irrelevant. You transformed that into an assertion I didnt make that hes lying about hospital statistics.

Youre all over the place and it’s coming off shrill and defensive.

I really dont care how you want to personally approach masks, vaccines, covid, political orders, etc. I wish you would grant others the same courtesy. Perhaps in real life you do, but your innumerable posts splattered on every page of this topic across multiple threads give me the impression youve got an “enforcer” mentality when it comes to your views of how everyone should respond to this issue.

Anyway, you may carry on. For my end Ill leave it at what Ive already said.

FultzNationRISE

09-07-2021, 02:51 PM

Manny98

09-07-2021, 02:54 PM

Actually the vaccine may well be helping him get through this. Being a drug and alcohol abuser (which he's admitted) probably didnt help his immune system.
I doubt that,

you put too much faith in vaccines and lab created medicine and not enough faith in the human bodies ability to naturally fight off illnesses

How do you think we were able to survive as a species for 100s of millions of years before vaccines were created

A big reason why I choose not to get vaccinated is that I literally never get sick, I worked through this "pandemic" as a key worker in a field where I was highly exposed to a lot of people and I still didn't get sick not even once

Especially seeing the potential side effects out there, you have to respect other people's personal decisions

tontoz

09-07-2021, 02:59 PM

I doubt that,

you put too much faith in vaccines and lab created medicine and not enough faith in the human bodies ability to naturally fight off illnesses

How do you think we were able to survive as a species for 100s of millions of years before vaccines were created

In a lot of cases we didn't. There were a lot of mass deaths along the way but i get it you are young, think you are bulletproof and DGAF about anyone else.

650k+ dead bodies just in the US (in spite of wearing masks, social distancing etc) tell me just letting nature take it's course isn't a good idea. Not only because of the covid deaths but also the people who died because their weren't ICU beds available.

tontoz

09-07-2021, 03:06 PM

Youre making irrelevant arguments.

I said nothing partisan in the post you initially responded to, yet your immediate reaction was to claim “a conservative governor said x,y, and z!!!!! Aha!!!” It’s clear your opinions are easily colored by a partisan view of government.

I pointed out that politicians can have ulterior motives and youre insisting “but hes conservative!” You said something about mask mandates and hospitals, I pointed out that opposing the mask mandates is irrelevant. You transformed that into an assertion I didnt make that hes lying about hospital statistics.

Youre all over the place and it’s coming off shrill and defensive.

I really dont care how you want to personally approach masks, vaccines, covid, political orders, etc. I wish you would grant others the same courtesy. Perhaps in real life you do, but your innumerable posts splattered on every page of this topic across multiple threads give me the impression youve got an “enforcer” mentality when it comes to your views of how everyone should respond to this issue.

Anyway, you may carry on. For my end Ill leave it at what Ive already said.

LOL i literally went a year without posting about the topic at all.

In case you haven't been paying attention there has been a clear divide in how people view Covid based on politics. Typically Republican governors more likely to be anti vax and anti prevention. In Florida the governor there is actually selling anti-Fauci tee shirts to fund his re-election campaign. He's banned masks in schools. Texas has already banned vaccine passports. And so on.

Dems have typically been more pro mask pro vaccine.

Whether you like it or not people's responses have been very political.

Manny98

09-07-2021, 03:12 PM

In a lot of cases we didn't. There were a lot of mass deaths along the way but i get it you are young, think you are bulletproof and DGAF about anyone else.

650k+ dead bodies just in the US (in spite of wearing masks, social distancing etc) tell me just letting nature take it's course isn't a good idea. Not only because of the covid deaths but also the people who died because their weren't ICU beds available.
We would have reached herd immunity and deaths would have eventually started to go down.

You're acting like the human race would have gone extinct if it wasn't for lockdowns and mask wearing which has been proven to do f*ck all

Isreal despite being the most vaccinated country in the world have record high number of cases which proves vaccines don't prevent transmission

Bronbron23

09-07-2021, 03:16 PM

tontoz

09-07-2021, 03:25 PM

It's way more than a side show. Hundreds of millions of people worldwide wide are being given a vaccine who don't need it taking it away from millions who need it but can't get it. Thousands of people are dying because of this.

Once again you are leaning on assumptions.

1) If people didn't get vaccines here, those doses would have been shipped overseas. Do you actually have any evidence of this? Have you ever considered that the drug companies have a certain percentage of the vaccine earmarked for us and for other countries?

2) The lack of vaccinations overseas is entirely due to a lack of supply. You completely ignore the logistics (distribution, storage, appointments, administering the vaccine) that were problematic in the rollout here. I doubt that India can handle it as well as we did.

3) You are assuming that the masses in other countries actually want to take the vaccine. This is comical coming from someone who hasn't taken it himself.

The overwhelming hospitals argument is a faulty one but i'm sure most people who aren't vaxxed would be willing to go to the back of the line for care if that would solve the issue

Somehow i doubt a guy in ICU will willingly give up his bed for someone else.

tontoz

09-07-2021, 04:13 PM

We would have reached herd immunity and deaths would have eventually started to go down.

You're acting like the human race would have gone extinct if it wasn't for lockdowns and mask wearing which has been proven to do f*ck all

Isreal despite being the most vaccinated country in the world have record high number of cases which proves vaccines don't prevent transmission

We already knew the vaccines don't totally prevent transmission. What the vaccines do is minimize the effects and help prevent severe cases.

Found a lengthy article breaking down Isreali hospitalizations.

https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/g195/tontoz/Screenshot_2021-09-07_4.12.31_PM.png

Bronbron23

09-07-2021, 05:10 PM

Once again you are leaning on assumptions.

1) If people didn't get vaccines here, those doses would have been shipped overseas. Do you actually have any evidence of this? Have you ever considered that the drug companies have a certain percentage of the vaccine earmarked for us and for other countries?

2) The lack of vaccinations overseas is entirely due to a lack of supply. You completely ignore the logistics (distribution, storage, appointments, administering the vaccine) that were problematic in the rollout here. I doubt that India can handle it as well as we did.

3) You are assuming that the masses in other countries actually want to take the vaccine. This is comical coming from someone who hasn't taken it himself.

Somehow i doubt a guy in ICU will willingly give up his bed for someone else.

1) the us and other wealthy nations absolutely has vaccines earmarked. That's part of the the problem they have more than they need earmarked. The us and uk has twice as many vaccines as it needs and canada has almost 5 times more than it needs. This earmarking or hoarding of vaccines by the wealthy nations is a problem Thatmany poor nations have been complaining about but its not something your gonna hear from our media obviously. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2021/4/28/22405279/covid-19-vaccine-india-covax. This article goes into more depth of it and is proof that poor countries clearly want and need way more vaccines.

2) yes it's all about lack of supply. Not for the wealthy they have plenty as i already pointed out. And plenty of countries like india have the capacity to administer vaccines. The supply just isn't there because as i pointed out the wealthy countries are hoarding them. Even if for argument sake if there were poor countries that couldn't it would be in everyones interest to help facilitate that process. It is a global pandemic.

3) not sure what my personal choice has to do with poor countries not being able to get vaccines. Like all countries some want the vaccine and some don't. The problem is the ones that want it can't get it.

tontoz

09-07-2021, 05:27 PM

1) Thatmhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2021/4/28/22405279/covid-19-vaccine-india-covax.

The first line of the article tells the story. The operative word is 'purchased'. After all the time and resources companies invested into developing and manufacturing the vaccines I don't expect them to just give them away for free.

The US is already subsidizing the rest of the world for drugs. Pretty much any drug you can name is far more expensive here than any other country. We are the ones who pay the costs to develop the drugs and the rest of the world benefits.

There is no law against other countries developing drugs of their own rather than waiting on handouts from us.

Bronbron23

09-07-2021, 05:59 PM

The first line of the article tells the story. The operative word is 'purchased'. After all the time and resources companies invested into developing and manufacturing the vaccines I don't expect them to just give them away for free.

The US is already subsidizing the rest of the world for drugs. Pretty much any drug you can name is far more expensive here than any other country. We are the ones who pay the costs to develop the drugs and the rest of the world benefits.

There is no law against other countries developing drugs of their own rather than waiting on handouts from us.

Come on man you have to be joking? It's not about saving lives its big buisness. It's not about free. It's about making a trillion dollars or a billion dollars. Highest bidder gets it. It's a joke. If it was about saving lives and stopping the pandemic They would sell it at a fair price on needs basis. They'd still make billions. Your being very nieve about this. The pandemic like most pandemics is being used to make the rich richer. You don't actually believe half of the loaded shit the media tells you do you?

tontoz

09-07-2021, 06:27 PM

Come on man you have to be joking? It's not about saving lives its big buisness. It's not about free. It's about making a trillion dollars or a billion dollars. Highest bidder gets it. It's a joke. If it was about saving lives and stopping the pandemic They would sell it at a fair price on needs basis. They'd still make billions. Your being very nieve about this. The pandemic like most pandemics is being used to make the rich richer. You don't actually believe half of the loaded shit the media tells you do you?

Like it or not drug companies are in business to make money. If they didnt have financial incentives to develop and make the drugs then there would be no vaccines.

It is always easy to spend someone else's money. Some current vaccines (not covid) cost over $100. Pfizer's is charging the government $19.50 per dose. That isn't a lot and if other countries can't pay that i can't blame Pfizer.

Should our govt buy the doses and then ship them overseas? That would certainly be a better use of fund than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. i would guess there will be a compromise solution at some point. Maybe the drug companies sell at cost or maybe our govt helps with some of the cost.

Companies are in business to make money so i can't fault them. If there are any charity doses sent out it will probably have to be subsidized by the government ie our tax dollars.

Bronbron23

09-07-2021, 07:26 PM

Like it or not drug companies are in business to make money. If they didnt have financial incentives to develop and make the drugs then there would be no vaccines.

It is always easy to spend someone else's money. Some current vaccines (not covid) cost over $100. Pfizer's is charging the government $19.50 per dose. That isn't a lot and if other countries can't pay that i can't blame Pfizer.

Should our govt buy the doses and then ship them overseas? That would certainly be a better use of fund than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. i would guess there will be a compromise solution at some point. Maybe the drug companies sell at cost or maybe our govt helps with some of the cost.

Companies are in business to make money so i can't fault them. If there are any charity doses sent out it will probably have to be subsidized by the government ie our tax dollars.

I get companies are in to make money but when it comes to a global pandemic they could do the right thing and make billions instead of trillions. Your acting like it's a matter of them barley being able to get by.

So no they shouldn't buy them and ship them for free they should only buy what they need and allow other countries to buy the rest. Again it's a matter of greed in both instances. Greed that's leading to millions getting sick and thousands dying. How you can ignore or accept this fact is interesting giving your stance on the problem the unvaccinated are causing.

tontoz

09-07-2021, 07:47 PM

I get companies are in to make money but when it comes to a global pandemic they could do the right thing and make billions instead of trillions. Your acting like it's a matter of them barley being able to get by.

So no they shouldn't buy them and ship them for free they should only buy what they need and allow other countries to buy the rest. Again it's a matter of greed in both instances. Greed that's leading to millions getting sick and thousands dying. How you can ignore or accept this fact is interesting giving your stance on the problem the unvaccinated are causing.

Trillions? I think someone posted that there have been 380 million doses given out. No idea if that is right but let's use that.

Pfizer is charging 19.5 per dose. Let's assume their profit is $6 just a guess.

6 x 380 mill = 1.9 billion in profit so far. Just a guestimate but I don't think they are getting that rich on this at that price. Apparently moderna is charging only $15.

The road to a trillion is pretty long.

Bronbron23

09-07-2021, 08:48 PM

Trillions? I think someone posted that there have been 380 million doses given out. No idea if that is right but let's use that.

Pfizer is charging 19.5 per dose. Let's assume their profit is $6 just a guess.

6 x 380 mill = 1.9 billion in profit so far. Just a guestimate but I don't think they are getting that rich on this at that price. Apparently moderna is charging only $15.

The road to a trillion is pretty long.

It was just a comparison it's not trillions but we are talking billions in sales. It's significantly higher than 1.9 billion. Here are some articles that highlight this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/17/rich-countries-hoarding-vaccines-us-eu-africa

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/2017272/rich-countries-are-buying-up-all-the-covid-19-vaccines/amp/

Here's another article highlighting how the greed of these wealthy countries will not only cost lives but cost the everyday person money. Meanwhile big pharma get filthy rich. https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/failure-vaccinate-globally-could-cost-2000-person-year-rich-nations

Cleverness

09-07-2021, 09:15 PM

Follow up questions ? Just you asking what the benefit of forced vaccinations are numbers wise.

We show you 80%+ of hospitalizations are amongst unvaccinated.

Anymore followup questions needed to understand basic facts?

The bolded statement does not answer the basic questions I presented and it needs context. See this post here for more details: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14432305&viewfull=1#post14432305

Anyways, the basic questions I asked were never answered. I'll try again.

1) What is the absolute risk reduction for hospitalization/death over 6-12 months after becoming fully vaccinated? You can break it down by age groups.

2a) Suppose the unvaccinated (group A) are forced to become vaccinated. How many from group A would have to become vaccinated to save 1 life from the group that voluntarily chose to become vaccinated (group B)? And over what timeframe?

2b) Suppose forcing person A to be injected with a drug reduced the chances of person B to die by 0.001% over the course of 12 months. Would it be worth it to force person A to be injected? At what point would it be worth it?

3 & 4 are more directed at Tontoz for his absurd claims, but I'll list them again in case you happen to agree with his narrative regarding "overwhelmed hospitals" due to covid and the necessity to force masking and social distancing:

3a) How many infections did school closures prevent from March 2020 to June 2021?

3b) How many infections have masks prevented so far, or through June 2021?

4) There are 3,006 counties and 50 states in the US. How many counties & states had overwhelmed hospitals due to Covid-19 in 2020? 2021? Let's take a look at the data.

Cleverness

09-07-2021, 09:24 PM

The real problem is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals.

Ah, see guys, the "real problem" is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals... or so he claims.

Let's see if tontoz can even back up his claim with basic data.

Let's break down what tontoz is claiming here:
After 18 months of preparation
$13.3 trillion in allocated spending in the name of Covid-19
Navy ships sailed out in April 2020 without seeing any patients
Field hospitals all torn down in April & May 2020
Hospitals emptier in 2020 than 2019 (without a vaccine)
70-80% of the high risk group now fully vaccinated
The unvaxxed have some level of immunity
States "hardest hit" have more hospital beds available than they had in March 2020 before Covid-19

His conclusion? The real problem is all the unvaccinated people filling up our hospitals.

Well let's see if he has the data to back up his claim. We'll start with the basics:

Out of all the people in the hospitals, how many are vaccinated? How many are unvaccinated?

(No, I'm not talking about people who had a positive PCR test for Covid-19 while in the hospital, I'm asking out of all the people in the hospitals, how many are vaccinated? How many are unvaccinated?)

What is the absolute risk reduction for being hospitalized within 6 months of becoming fully vaccinated?

Next, there are 3,006 counties and 50 states in the US. How many counties & states had overwhelmed hospitals due to Covid-19 in 2020? 2021? Today? Let's take a look at the data.

tontoz

09-07-2021, 09:24 PM

It was just a comparison it's not trillions but we are talking billions in sales. It's significantly higher than 1.9 billion. Here are some articles that highlight this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/17/rich-countries-hoarding-vaccines-us-eu-africa

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/2017272/rich-countries-are-buying-up-all-the-covid-19-vaccines/amp/

Here's another article highlighting how the greed of these wealthy countries will not only cost lives but cost the everyday person money. Meanwhile big pharma get filthy rich. https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/failure-vaccinate-globally-could-cost-2000-person-year-rich-nations

My 1.9 billion number is meant to be profit, not revenue, on 380 million doses. There are a lot of costs for the R&D, production, storage and distribution of the vaccines. If they are selling for $20 or less i seriously doubt their profit margin is 40% or more.

If we are going to give away cheaper doses it has to be the governments call. The drug companies aren't going to do it voluntarily. They certainly aren't going to give away their patents to other countries.

Joe Rogan did a good podcast back in July where he brought in Abby Martin who completely trashed Israel for their treatment of Palestinians. Ugly stuff going on there. There were US citizens traveling over there to squat in Palestinian homes in occupied territories, basically stealing their homes right in front of them and there was nothing the Palestinians could do about it.

Cleverness

09-07-2021, 09:39 PM

LOL i literally went a year without posting about the topic at all.

In case you haven't been paying attention there has been a clear divide in how people view Covid based on politics. Typically Republican governors more likely to be anti vax and anti prevention. In Florida the governor there is actually selling anti-Fauci tee shirts to fund his re-election campaign. He's banned masks in schools. Texas has already banned vaccine passports. And so on.

Dems have typically been more pro mask pro vaccine.

Whether you like it or not people's responses have been very political.

Lmao. There were masks and lockdowns in almost every "red" state in the country, including the two you just listed. Every governor promoted the shit outta the Trump vaccine and Operation Warp Speed. Hell, they still do! Abbott, the guy you claim "banned vaccine passports," was just telling everyone how wonderful the Trump vaccine is a week or so ago.

Literally zero governors swore in their Public Health Officials (which ALL promoted social distancing & wearing masks) for cross examination. The two you listed in particular, Florida and Texas both had lockdowns and mask mandates in most cities within the state in 2020. Did you read the Texas and FL bills regarding "vaccine passports?" They didn't ban vaccine passports bro. Companies all over the state require vaccines, including the Trump vaccine. Read the actual bill, not CNN headlines.

Both governors supported Trump's National State of Emergency, which provided the trillions of dollars to the states to go on with the charade. Both governors supported Trump's social distancing guidelines, Trump's mask urgency, Trump's travel bans, etc... and it appears you also support all of Trump's policies, including Trump's very own team members, such as Fauci.

At no point did any of those governors stand up in 2020 and tell people to stop social distancing, stop wearing masks, stop travel bans, and don't get the Trump vaccine. If they did, show it. Trump didn't do it either.

Anyways, let's see you back up your bold claims you keep making about masks, lockdowns, hospitals, and the Trump vaccine.

Cleverness

09-07-2021, 09:47 PM

Btw Ill just lastly point out that altho it’s not scientific, there’s a respected tradition of proverbial wisdom in politics that says:

“If rrr3 is on your side... youre probably wrong.”

Just something to keep in mind.

:roll:

tontoz comes off as a guy who is well versed in mainstream narratives. probably has read dozens of articles from various corporate media outlets all pushing the same Official Narrative, thinking he's 'well rounded' on the topic.

"I even read some of the (controlled) opposition," he says unironically, "they think the masks are the sign of the devil and the (Trump) vaccine has microchips! LOL now I know I'm right!"

Bronbron23

09-07-2021, 09:51 PM

My 1.9 billion number is meant to be profit, not revenue, on 380 million doses. There are a lot of costs for the R&D, production, storage and distribution of the vaccines. If they are selling for $20 or less i seriously doubt their profit margin is 40% or more.

If we are going to give away cheaper doses it has to be the governments call. The drug companies aren't going to do it voluntarily. They certainly aren't going to give away their patents to other countries.

Joe Rogan did a good podcast back in July where he brought in Abby Martin who completely trashed Israel for their treatment of Palestinians. Ugly stuff going on there. There were US citizens traveling over there to squat in Palestinian homes in occupied territories, basically stealing their homes right in front of them and there was nothing the Palestinians could do about it.

Yeah i Don't know the exact profit but it's a shit ton i know that. That could take 10 times less profit and still get rich af. It really is disgusting. Here's an article showing how ridiculous it is https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/vaccine-monopolies-make-cost-vaccinating-world-against-covid-least-5-times-more I'm all for making a profit but not as much as it is and especially not at the expense of lives in a pandemic.

tontoz

09-07-2021, 09:59 PM

Cleverness

09-07-2021, 10:08 PM

Yeah i Don't know the exact profit but it's a shit ton i know that. That could take 10 times less profit and still get rich af. It really is disgusting. Here's an article showing how ridiculous it is https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/vaccine-monopolies-make-cost-vaccinating-world-against-covid-least-5-times-more I'm all for making a profit but not as much as it is and especially not at the expense of lives in a pandemic.

@ Bronbron

https://covidmoneytracker.org/

Wait for it to load. Doing a simple search using the word "vaccine" shows at least $80 billion is allocated for Covid vaccinations.

Important to note that all of this spending is thanks to Donald Trump's National declaration of Emergency. None of this is possible without it. The states simply don't have the funds to print $13.3 trillion for a War on Covid-19. This is Trump's War - Biden is just continuing where Trump left off.

If Trump didn't want any of this, he would have ended the emergency in March or April 2020 when the field hospitals were being torn down and Navy ships sailed out due to the rate of hospitalization being a tiny fraction of predicted (~2% vs 20-50%).

He could have ended his Nat'l Emergency (cuts off the $$$), said "stop social distancing, stop wearing masks, stop travel bans," swear-in and cross examine his entire team of quacks and fire them, etc. Republicans would be on board and the governors would (as they always had) followed Trump's lead, not only politically, but the states simply don't have trillions of dollars to support any sort of lockdowns to continue on and on like they did. I can go on but I think you get the point. I hope the link helps you.

Cleverness

09-07-2021, 10:09 PM

I see Cleverness popping in from time to time. If anyone is wondering why i don't respond to him i put him on the ignore list awhile back. He is literally the only person i ever put on ignore that i never even argued with. :oldlol:

The reasons should be obvious.

I asked you basic followup questions regarding your bold claims.

You haven't been able to answer them.

I'm guessing the cognitive dissonance started to get too heavy and the only way to block it out was to ignore any questioning to your absurd assertions.

SATAN

09-07-2021, 10:09 PM

You are literally insane.

tontoz

09-07-2021, 10:12 PM

tontoz

09-07-2021, 10:15 PM

You are literally insane.

The ignore list is your friend. It was probably two months ago that i put him on ignore. I don't think i ever even had a conversation with him about this or anything else and i still couldn't take it. :lol

BurningHammer

09-07-2021, 10:26 PM

The ignore list is your friend. It was probably two months ago that i put him on ignore. I don't think i ever even had a conversation with him about this or anything else and i still couldn't take it. :lol

Yeah. At least Chewy and Welfarefan are somewhat funny. :oldlol:

Bronbron23

09-07-2021, 10:27 PM

:roll:

tontoz comes off as a guy who is well versed in mainstream narratives. probably has read dozens of articles from various corporate media outlets all pushing the same Official Narrative, thinking he's 'well rounded' on the topic.

"I even read some of the (controlled) opposition," he says unironically, "they think the masks are the sign of the devil and the (Trump) vaccine has microchips! LOL now I know I'm right!"

I don't know me and tontoz just had a long debate/discussion about it and we don't agree but he was cool for the most part. I don't think he's much different from us. He has his media outlets and studies he likes that supports his views and we have ours. Sure they're the majority and they're shaming and name calling and telling untruths but let's be honest so are the minority that we align more with. I don't blame people like tontoz for feeling as strongly as they do because the media has been brainwashing and fear mongering people since day 1. Why wouldn't people believe the cdc, government and media who they believe is trustworthy and honest. It's natural for people to want to believe their government, healthcare system and media is good by nature and that they are honest and have the best intentions for the everyday citizens well being. This is why they're so easily mislead. It comes from qn honest place. Calling them brainwashed tools is no more productive than them calling us antivaxed conspiracy nuts. I think we both are operating from pure good intentions It's just that our belief that our side is right lets us get emotional qnd then frustrated and then unsympathetic to where the other side is coming from. Again i blame the media, cdc and government for this. They've intentionally created a divide to try to scare and shame people into getting the vaccine and it's worked.

Cleverness

09-07-2021, 10:28 PM

Yeah. At least Chewy and Welfarefan are somewhat funny. :oldlol:

I'm here to discuss the costs and benefits of forced masking, forced lockdowns, forced vaccinations, forced travel bans, and supposed "overwhelmed" hospitals, all of which you and tontoz support.

Unfortunately you and tontoz have an extremely difficult time backing up your claims.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477454-Official-coronavirus-news-discussion-thread&p=14417959&viewfull=1#post14417959

SATAN

09-07-2021, 10:29 PM

You're here to argue. Just admit it. :lol

Cleverness

09-07-2021, 10:31 PM

I don't know me and tontoz just had a long debate/discussion about it and we don't agree but he was cool for the most part. I don't think he's much different from us. He has his media outlets and studies he likes that supports his views and we have ours. Sure they're the majority and they're shaming and name calling and telling untruths but let's be honest so are the minority that we align more with. I don't blame people like tontoz for feeling as strongly as they do because the media has been brainwashing and fear mongering people since day 1. Why wouldn't people believe the cdc, government and media who they believe is trustworthy and honest. It's natural for people to want to believe their government, healthcare system and media is good by nature and that they are honest and have the best intentions for the everyday citizens well being. This is why they're so easily mislead. It comes from qn honest place. Calling them brainwashed tools is no more productive than them calling us antivaxed conspiracy nuts. I think we both are operating from pure good intentions It's just that our belief that our side is right lets us get emotional qnd then frustrated and then unsympathetic to where the other side is coming from. Again i blame the media, cdc and government for this. They've intentionally created a divide to try to scare and shame people into getting the vaccine and it's worked.

That reply was mainly for Fultz, but thanks for the response.

The other replies are more in tune with the general discussion regarding the data and the costs and benefits of forced masking, forced lockdowns, forced vaccinations, forced travel bans, and supposed "overwhelmed" hospitals.

For example, this post:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14433362&viewfull=1#post14433362

BurningHammer

09-07-2021, 10:34 PM

You're here to argue. Just admit it. :lol

Changing plans from repeatedly dumping stuff off facebook to asking people to work for him instead :oldlol:

Bronbron23

09-07-2021, 10:43 PM

Sorry but this doesn't pass the sniff test. The US govt has a lot of leverage when negotiating prices with the drug companies due to their buying power.

Even if that $1.20 production cost number was true, which i doubt, production is only one of the costs of bringing a vaccine to market. R&D, testing, storage, distribution... probably forgetting some things. Over time the cost will come down but that is not a believable number.

Do you really think our govt is so weak that they are willing to give the drug companies roughly an 85% profit margin in an emergency situation, especially when there has been so much talk about cutting drug prices in recent years?

I don't buy it.

The government has proven themselves to be highly incompetent on a range of issues time and time again throughout history so nothing would surprise me. I mean there's tons of articles on this though and almost show a ridiculous profit margin.

You may not buy it but they certainly are

Cleverness

09-07-2021, 10:51 PM

The government has proven themselves to be highly incompetent on a range of issues time and time again throughout history so nothing would surprise me. I mean there's tons of articles on this though and almost show a ridiculous profit margin.

You may not buy it but they certainly are

Just remember that tontoz is a supporter of forced masking, forced lockdowns, forced vaccinations, etc. These are the major issues (IMO, and I think you'd agree). Those are the things he needs to make his case on. Remember that.

What the gov't should do with leftover vaccine, the precise difference between natural immunity & immunity through vaccination, what the governor of WV said on YouTube, etc, are comparatively minor issues. I notice you're smart enough to recognize supposed "private" drug companies make their money BECAUSE of gov't, and there's a lot of corruption in that industry, but again, these issues are separate from the major issues I listed above.

Bronbron23

09-07-2021, 10:53 PM

That reply was mainly for Fultz, but thanks for the response.

The other replies are more in tune with the general discussion regarding the data and the costs and benefits of forced masking, forced lockdowns, forced vaccinations, forced travel bans, and supposed "overwhelmed" hospitals.

For example, this post:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497308-Anyone-believe-Covid-is-very-serious-but-at-same-time-the-vaccine-ain-t-doing-shit&p=14433362&viewfull=1#post14433362

Yeah i'm not with forced anything. I think if u wanna mask, vaccinate or whatever to protect yourself you should go for it just don't project your fears on me. That said the govt, cdc and media are doing their best to get people to do just that so i try to be understanding and have rational debates with that in mind. It's tough though for both sides. It's causing issues with friends and family that I've never had any issues with before. They probably feel the same and it just makes both sides more frustrated and angry at each other. The shit sucks man.

Cleverness

09-07-2021, 11:12 PM

Yeah i'm not with forced anything. I think if u wanna mask, vaccinate or whatever to protect yourself you should go for it just don't project your fears on me. That said the govt, cdc and media are doing their best to get people to do just that so i try to be understanding and have rational debates with that in mind. It's tough though for both sides. It's causing issues with friends and family that I've never had any issues with before. They probably feel the same and it just makes both sides more frustrated and angry at each other. The shit sucks man.

Right.

And these guys want to force hundreds of millions of people to do those things. Thus, the burden of proof is on them to make their case for locking people up and forcing medical intrusions into their bodies. When people advocate for that sort of thing, they better have a rock-solid case which can withstand some of the toughest scrutiny. What I've done is ask basic followup questions to those people and they all folded like a house of cards.

Axe

09-07-2021, 11:26 PM

Bronbron23

09-07-2021, 11:43 PM

Right.

And these guys want to force hundreds of millions of people to do those things. Thus, the burden of proof is on them to make their case for locking people up and forcing medical intrusions into their bodies. When people advocate for that sort of thing, they better have a rock-solid case which can withstand some of the toughest scrutiny. What I've done is ask basic followup questions to those people and they all folded like a house of cards.

Yeah i think the burden of proof thing is tricky because there's data, experts and articles out there that support their reasons why everyone one should mask, vaccine or whatever. Sure these experts, data and articles may be untruthful or just plain wrong but they don't know that. They believe it's forthright. They believe they have the burden of truth just like we can sight contradictory articles, data and experts that claim otherwise. That's the problem with this shit. There's so much misinformation and conflicting data it's hard to tell what to believe. I was raised to question authority and think for yourself so i just look at data and things being said and apply common sense and or science to it and often the answer is there. Certain basic principles like natural antibodies are as good or more effective than the vaccine. This has always been common knowledge until covid where the media and cdc managed to scare people into abandoning science and common sense and believe antibodies didn't matter with covid.

The crazy shit is i think if all these entities were honest and understanding and didn't tell lies or unknown truths from jump and just allowed for honest open debate and discussion way more people would of taken the vaccine. Or maybe if they allowed open debate and discussion it would be clear that alot of what they're saying is b.s. i really don't know what to believe anymore.

tontoz

09-08-2021, 10:12 AM

Just took another look at the AstraZeneca vaccine. Apparently the FDA won't even allow it to be used here in the US even though the government bought millions of doses.

Bronbron23

09-08-2021, 10:44 AM

Just took another look at the AstraZeneca vaccine. Apparently the FDA won't even allow it to be used here in the US even though the government bought millions of doses.

What a waste. This is part of the reason for my hesitancy with the vaccine. Who knows if the other vaccines have some kind of long term effects that don't show up until a year or 2 after. This shit is still in its infancy and knowledge of covid and vaccines are constantly changing.

tontoz

09-08-2021, 11:03 AM

What a waste. This is part of the reason for my hesitancy with the vaccine. Who knows if the other vaccines have some kind of long term effects that don't show up until a year or 2 after. This shit is still in its infancy and knowledge of covid and vaccines are constantly changing.

From what i have read vaccines never have long term effects. The only side effects are short term. Problem is that they can be severe in the short term.

The link from Manny, if i remember right, mentioned 72 dead attributed to the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Another story i looked at said the threat of death from the vaccine is 1 in a million. Not much of an endorsement imo. The chance of a case of TTS, which sometimes ends in death, is 30 in a million. The tone of the article is of trying to minimize the risk. To me that much risk just isn't acceptable given that through history vaccines have been pretty safe and there are much safer options available now

What is TTS?
Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) is a rare condition reported in some people who have received adenoviral vector COVID-19 vaccines [such as the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine]. The syndrome is characterised by blood clot formation (thrombosis) combined with low platelet levels (thrombocytopenia).

TTS is different to other more commonly diagnosed blood clotting conditions as it is triggered by an immune response that causes the combination of both clots and low platelets.

https://www.science.org.au/curious/people-medicine/astrazeneca-vaccine-risk-death-1-million-what-does-mean

theman93

09-08-2021, 11:04 AM

tontoz

09-08-2021, 11:52 AM

This is from Manny's link in the other thread about the AstraZeneca vaccine:

Tests were carried out and blood clots were found in her brain, prompting her to be moved to the neurology specialist unit at Newcastle's Royal Victoria Infirmary (RVI).

The clots are considered extremely rare - there have been 417 reported cases and 72 deaths - after 24.8 million first doses and 23.9 million second doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK.

Dr Christopher Johnson, a consultant in anaesthetics and intensive care at the RVI, said Ms Shaw had been conscious for several days and had been treated for the clots with drugs which seemed to be successful.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796

So 72 deaths for 24 million people who got both doses, 3 deaths per million people fully vaccinated. Ugh

Bronbron23

09-08-2021, 12:45 PM

From what i have read vaccines never have long term effects. The only side effects are short term. Problem is that they can be severe in the short term.

The link from Manny, if i remember right, mentioned 72 dead attributed to the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Another story i looked at said the threat of death from the vaccine is 1 in a million. Not much of an endorsement imo. The chance of a case of TTS, which sometimes ends in death, is 30 in a million. The tone of the article is of trying to minimize the risk. To me that much risk just isn't acceptable given that through history vaccines have been pretty safe and there are much safer options available now

https://www.science.org.au/curious/people-medicine/astrazeneca-vaccine-risk-death-1-million-what-does-mean

Yeah i here u but this is the firsr mrna vaccine from what i understand. It's a bit different from most vaccines. Generally your right though vaccines don't usually cause long term effects.

Manny98

09-11-2021, 06:29 AM

13-Year-Old Dies in Sleep After Receiving Pfizer COVID Vaccine; CDC Investigating

https://www.newsweek.com/13-year-old-dies-sleep-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-vaccine-cdc-investigating-1606529

Rooster

09-11-2021, 10:30 AM

Yeah i think the burden of proof thing is tricky because there's data, experts and articles out there that support their reasons why everyone one should mask, vaccine or whatever. Sure these experts, data and articles may be untruthful or just plain wrong but they don't know that. They believe it's forthright. They believe they have the burden of truth just like we can sight contradictory articles, data and experts that claim otherwise. That's the problem with this shit. There's so much misinformation and conflicting data it's hard to tell what to believe. I was raised to question authority and think for yourself so i just look at data and things being said and apply common sense and or science to it and often the answer is there. Certain basic principles like natural antibodies are as good or more effective than the vaccine. This has always been common knowledge until covid where the media and cdc managed to scare people into abandoning science and common sense and believe antibodies didn't matter with covid.

The crazy shit is i think if all these entities were honest and understanding and didn't tell lies or unknown truths from jump and just allowed for honest open debate and discussion way more people would of taken the vaccine. Or maybe if they allowed open debate and discussion it would be clear that alot of what they're saying is b.s. i really don't know what to believe anymore.

LMAO . Use common sense. Consider the source . Legit science journalism with a reputation to protect will not put out random articles to push some agenda. I see a echo chamber on both side especially when they are piggybacking a political propaganda and the ones why usually fall for this are the ones with a form confirmation bias:

The only thing that scares me is the more virus that are circulating, the more chance of evolving and the last thing we want is a variant that ultimately affect our children. The only pragmatic solution is preventable measures.

tontoz

09-11-2021, 11:10 AM

13-Year-Old Dies in Sleep After Receiving Pfizer COVID Vaccine; CDC Investigating

https://www.newsweek.com/13-year-old-dies-sleep-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-vaccine-cdc-investigating-1606529

Myocarditis is a known side effect which can effect young people which is probably why the vaccines still arent approved for kids 12 and under. This kid was 13 so right on the edge.

Myocarditis apparently affects boys more than girls.

The heart complications are more likely to occur in boys and young men, the analysis found, and the most common symptoms are chest pain, shortness of breath, and the sensation of having a rapid heartbeat, a fluttering, or pounding heart.

As of Monday, 780 cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System among people ages 30 and younger who had received a COVID-19 vaccine.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/2021/07/02/jacob-clynick-pfizer-covid-vaccine/5323095001/

When you consider the millions of doses that have been given out i guess the key question is whether the risk of this side effect is greater than the risk of Covid.

Less than a month into the new school year, the U.S. is seeing a record number of children hospitalized for COVID-19. According to data from the CDC, the hospitalization rate for children under 18 is five times what it was in June, and the New York Times reports that nearly 30,000 adolescents and children were hospitalized for coronavirus in August.

But the spike in hospitalizations is especially concerning given the capacity of pediatric ICU units, which average just 12 beds per hospital. In Louisiana and Texas, some children’s hospitals are completely overwhelmed, with federal “surge teams” bringing emergency workers in to help.

While vaccines, which are playing a key role in keeping people with COVID-19 infections out of hospitals, are still not available for kids under 12, adult vaccinations seem to be minimizing the number of sick children. The ten most vaccinated states haven’t seen much change in their pediatric hospitalization rates, while the biggest increases are happening in states with low vaccination rates. Doctors in overrun ICUs are also urging all adults, vaccinated or not, to wear masks and socially distance in public, especially if they’re coming into contact with children.

https://www.thecut.com/2021/09/a-record-number-of-kids-are-being-hospitalized-for-covid.html

Manny98

09-11-2021, 11:16 AM

The parents of that kid should fine Pfizer millions

The risk of Covid for healthy people under the age of 60 is virtually 0

The vaccine is only worth it if you're over 60 or not in good health and even then it should be optional

tontoz

09-11-2021, 11:29 AM

Manny98

09-11-2021, 11:48 AM

30k kids currently in the hospital for covid argues otherwise.
Deaths from COVID ‘incredibly rare’ among children

A comprehensive analysis of hospital admissions and reported deaths across England suggests that COVID-19 carries a lower risk of dying or requiring intensive care among children and young people than was previously thought.

In a series of preprints published on medRxiv1–3, a team of researchers picked through all hospital admissions and deaths reported for people younger than 18 in England. The studies found that COVID-19 caused 25 deaths in that age group between March 2020 and February 2021.

About half of those deaths were in individuals with an underlying complex disability with high health-care needs, such as tube feeding or assistance with breathing.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w

tontoz

09-11-2021, 11:55 AM

In case you didn't notice their study group ended in Feb 2021, well before the Delta variant became the dominant strain.

Why do you think 30k kids are currently in the hospital with Covid?

tpols

09-11-2021, 11:57 AM

Tontoz has to be working for the ministry of truth at this point. :oldlol:

This little bitch does nothing but non stop fear monger. Useful idiot as Yuri Bezmenov would put it.

https://youtu.be/Z1EA2ohrt5Q

tontoz

09-11-2021, 12:01 PM

Tpols with yet another post completely devoid of any useful data or analysis. The only thing he is good for is hitting a button.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/panic.jpg

tpols

09-11-2021, 12:17 PM

I'm not the one panicking. You are. :oldlol:

You took the bait hook line and sinker. Keep spamming your fear and being a useful idiot.

Yuri breaks down the process with which governments break down their citizens psychologically to an absolute tee. I know your attention span is too short to watch the video but I will be providing cliff notes on it soon.

tontoz

09-11-2021, 12:23 PM

Manny98

09-11-2021, 12:32 PM

In case you didn't notice their study group ended in Feb 2021, well before the Delta variant became the dominant strain.

Why do you think 30k kids are currently in the hospital with Covid?
Last time I checked they were about 1.5k kids hospitalized in the US, don't know where you got 30k from

In the UK the amount of young people that have died of Covid has yet to hit the 100s

tpols

09-11-2021, 12:43 PM

Right because a Russian spy vid is so relevant to the effectiveness of COVID vaccines.

:facepalm

See... you didn't watch the video.

Yuri explains how its only in American movies and Hollywood that KGB does nothing but spy. He explains in this video that espionage is only 15% of KGB duty and 85% of their effort is spent on the ideological subversion of their own citizenry through use of propaganda to eventually control how they think and their lives as a whole.

He literally broke it down 40 years ago what's going to happen and explained what is going on today.

Stage 1 Demoralization - 20+ years to mold minds of a new generation

Stage 2 De-stabilization - collapse economy, start wars and pit people against each other ~ aka us vs terrorists, vax vs unvax, this group vs that group, me vs you etc.

Stage 3 Crisis - worldwide COVID hysteria.

Stage 4 Normalization - you do whatever the **** we say, give up all bodily autonomy and essentially belong as property to the state. Personal freedom gone. Total top down control established and enforced.

He spelled it out word for word because he lived it in the Soviet union.

Your stance is so myopic and short sighted its not even ****ing funny. You are a useful idiot who can't see the big picture and think this is all just about a vaccine.

I can't say the guy didn't call it 1000%.

tontoz

09-11-2021, 12:49 PM

Fitting that you are posting conspiracy nut nonsense on Sept 11.

I have watched a lot of the vids and read a lot of the articles that people debating me have posted. I am not watching conspiracy nut vids.

4.5 million have died worldwide due to the.virus, not govt mind.control.

:facepalm

tpols

09-11-2021, 12:51 PM

Nice deflection sheep.

People like you are why this world is headed where its headed.

tontoz

09-11-2021, 12:53 PM

Nice deflection sheep.

People like you are why this world is headed where its headed.

So do you have any info on the virus, vaccine or treatment? Maybe you should.make a separate thread for govt mind control vids. :oldlol:

tpols

09-11-2021, 01:08 PM

tontoz

09-11-2021, 01:12 PM

So how many people die from govt mind control?

I bet the govt is using hypnosis so people develop illnesses severe enough to admitted to the ICU so the drug companies can get that.lettuce. :roll:

tpols

09-11-2021, 01:18 PM

So how many people die from govt mind control?

I bet the govt is using hypnosis so people develop illnesses severe enough to admitted to the ICU so the drug companies can get that.lettuce. :roll:

Get lettuce? What are you even saying clown?

Yes worldwide media propaganda has led us to having useful idiots like you who will push for global tyranny. And in the end that will have far more disastrous results than a rebranding of deaths into one bucket to fear monger populations into submissivity.

You're still stuck in the short term dummy. Put your specs on. :oldlol:

And look into the big picture of this whole exercise if you can.

Doomsday Dallas

09-11-2021, 01:26 PM

https://youtu.be/3rwr_xDqMLg

tontoz

09-11-2021, 01:35 PM

The big picture is nurses like this one who spend their days and nights watching people die without being able to do anything about it. I've been there a couple times and it is awful.

https://www.tiktok.com/@nurse_sushi/video/6998078138420890886

tpols

09-11-2021, 01:45 PM

Wait... A tik tok video of one persons daily perspective is representative of long term society as a whole?

Tik tok? :roll:

Are you a teenage girl? That's your source?

Nurses all around the country are protesting vaccine mandates so I guess its back to the drawing board for you.

https://youtu.be/qaOV5oBnsdw

I give this guy a video of a supremely intelligent ex KGB agent explaining how ideological subversion works and he gives me a tik tok video.

:roll:

Can't make this shit up.

Manny98

09-11-2021, 01:47 PM

tontoz

09-11-2021, 02:02 PM

Of course if someone already had covid then they have a legit argument not to get the vaccine. I am not going to argue that. Most of them probably had covid at some point after being exposed to it constantly.

Your video was from 2 months ago prior to the vaccine getting FDA approval which I am sure you weren't aware of.

That tic TOC video was from a nurse in the ICU. All 30 of her ICU beds are filled with unvaccinated COVID patients. An alarm goes off when one of their vital signs hits a.critical level. Alarms were going off constantly all night.

Cleverness

09-13-2021, 09:50 PM

50-60 million people die every year worldwide.

link (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-deaths-per-year?country=~OWID_WRL)

Global population is up from 2019 to today. Surely this humanity shredding plague justifies the draconian lockdown and loss of freedoms worldwide.

Tontoz you better get in your bunker and hide boy. Virus coming for you.

16 million people die of infectious diseases every year, many of whom are children. millions of children dying of starvation/malnutrition all the time. nobody gives a ****. a few million people (median age of death ~80 years old) die with a coronavirus over a year and everyone loses their shit and demands 7 billion people change their lives for the illusion of saving an unknown amount of people over an unknown timeframe with an unknown achievable goal. :oldlol:

No known infections prevented by NPIs in the US so far.

Cleverness

09-13-2021, 09:53 PM

Yeah i think the burden of proof thing is tricky

Burden of proof thing isn't tricky.

If you want to place an injunction on someone you need to have a solid case. If you want to place an injunction on billions of people your case better be rock ****ing solid and subject to cross-examination.

tontoz

09-13-2021, 10:01 PM

. Unvaccinated people were 11 times more likely to die of covid-19, CDC report finds
Moderna vaccine is most effective, says another study, the largest to date in U.S. to assess real-world effectiveness

Interesting that the moderna vaccine is more effective. Didn't know that.

. protection was significantly higher among Moderna vaccine recipients (95 percent) than among those who got Pfizer-BioNTech (80 percent) or Johnson & Johnson (60 percent). That finding echoes a smaller study by the Mayo Clinic Health System in August, not yet peer-reviewed, which showed the Moderna vaccine to be more effective than Pfizer-BioNTech at preventing infections during the delta wave.

This may also explain why the J&J vaccine is out of favor, only 14 million doses so far.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/10/moderna-most-effective-covid-vaccine-studies/

Rooster

09-14-2021, 01:31 PM

Interesting that the moderna vaccine is more effective. Didn't know that.

This may also explain why the J&J vaccine is out of favor, only 14 million doses so far.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/10/moderna-most-effective-covid-vaccine-studies/

Moderna has a efficacy of 93.2 % on original variants after 6 months , Pfizer only has 84% and 76% against Delta and Pfizer only has 42%. Vaccines is not all or nothing solutions, breakthrough cases are expected but this is a good preventable measures. I believed most Flu vaccine only has 60%. However we have anti-viral drugs that can kill Influenza virus (inside our body) but we don’t have anything for Covid yet.