Is Lebron the longest tenured "best player in the NBA"? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Bronbron23

09-05-2021, 09:41 AM

It felt like he was the best player for so many seasons. Even with Curry or Durant or Giannis going bonkers people always said Lebron's still the best player.

Hard to say. It depends when you think he was considered the best in the league. An argument could be made that kobe and or duncan were better up until at least 2010. Could probably throw wade in there for a couple years. So that would leave bron as the best from 2011 to 2019. Even some of those years could be arguable. One could argue kawhi was better in 18 and kd was better in 16 and 17. So that would give bron somewhere between 9 and 6 years as the best. Mj had arguably around the same maybe 6-8 years. Not sure how many years kareem dominated for but it's probably around the same. Maybe the same with russell although judging by the 11 chips i could be wrong.

ELITEpower23

09-05-2021, 09:51 AM

Hard to say. It depends when you think he was considered the best in the league. An argument could be made that kobe and or duncan were better up until at least 2010. Could probably throw wade in there for a couple years. So that would leave bron as the best from 2011 to 2019. Even some of those years could be arguable. One could argue kawhi was better in 18 and kd was better in 16 and 17. So that would give bron somewhere between 9 and 6 years as the best. Mj had arguably around the same maybe 6-8 years. Not sure how many years kareem dominated for but it's probably around the same. Maybe the same with russell although judging by the 11 chips i could be wrong.

Wrong, no one was better in 2009. Period. And probably not in 2008 either.

SaintzFury13

09-05-2021, 10:33 AM

Wrong, no one was better in 2009. Period. And probably not in 2008 either.

LeBron wasn't a truly elite defensive player in 2008 yet. I can agree with the idea that he wasn't the best player in the world yet because of this. But by 2009? It was perfectly clear he had surpassed Kobe.

RRR3

09-05-2021, 10:34 AM

Manny98

09-05-2021, 10:35 AM

Hasn't been the best since 2013

KD passed him in 2014

RRR3

09-05-2021, 10:36 AM

Hasn't been the best since 2013

KD passed him in 2014
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

KD pooped his pants in the playoffs in 2014 he didn’t pass anyone that year

Manny98

09-05-2021, 10:40 AM

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

KD pooped his pants in the playoffs in 2014 he didn’t pass anyone that year
KD actually gave the Spurs a challenge unlike LeQuit

SaintzFury13

09-05-2021, 10:41 AM

Hasn't been the best since 2013

KD passed him in 2014

The only reason KD even won the MVP award that season was due to Westbrook playing on a limited basis throughout the entire season.

KD never truly surpassed him as the best player in the world. By the time he finally became better, other guys had already beaten him to the punch.

SaintzFury13

09-05-2021, 10:42 AM

KD actually gave the Spurs a challenge unlike LeQuit

KD put up worse numbers against SA than LeBron did...

In fact, in the only two games the Thunder won against SA, Durant wasn't even the leading scorer. Westbrook was.

Manny98

09-05-2021, 10:44 AM

KD put up worse numbers against SA than LeBron did...
KD took them to a grueling 6 game series
LeBron got destroyed in 5 by record margins

Nobody cares about LeBrons empty stats he put up in garbage time down by 30 :oldlol:

SaintzFury13

09-05-2021, 10:46 AM

KD took them to a grueling 6 game series

No he didn't.

Again, in both games OKC won, Westbrook was their top scorer and overall producer. LeBron at least carried his team to a win. Durant couldn't even manage that.

Manny98

09-05-2021, 10:53 AM

No he didn't.

Again, in both games OKC won, Westbrook was their top scorer and overall producer. LeBron at least carried his team to a win. Durant couldn't even manage that.

:facepalm

SaintzFury13

09-05-2021, 11:06 AM

:facepalm

Thanks for proving you don't have an argument.

Then again, kind of hard to argue against facts. I'm glad you've come to that conclusion. Perhaps you aren't as stupid as I thought you were.

8Ball

09-05-2021, 11:19 AM

Being a Durant stan isn't going well for him :lol

Manny98

09-05-2021, 11:27 AM

Being a Durant stan isn't going well for him :lol

Last time i checked Durant is 2-1 in the finals against LeBum

Bout to be 3-1 next year :applause:

SaintzFury13

09-05-2021, 11:34 AM

Last time i checked Durant is 2-1 in the finals against LeBum

Bout to be 3-1 next year :applause:

It's pretty sad that this is the best retort you have.

Manny98

09-05-2021, 11:36 AM

It's pretty sad that this is the best retort you have.
It's the only retort I need

KD beats LeBron head to head

ELITEpower23

09-05-2021, 11:40 AM

Last time i checked Durant is 2-1 in the finals against LeBum

Bout to be 3-1 next year :applause:

Last time I checked Durant blew a 3-1 lead to the 2016 Warriors while LeBron beat them and earned the GOAT chip.

Then Durant joined the very team he blew a 3-1 lead to the NEXT year. Don't stan a cuck Manny unless of course you're a, well, you know.

Manny98

09-05-2021, 11:49 AM

Last time I checked Durant blew a 3-1 lead to the 2016 Warriors while LeBron beat them and earned the GOAT chip.

Then Durant joined the very team he blew a 3-1 lead to the NEXT year. Don't stan a cuck Manny unless of course you're a, well, you know.

2-1, I know it hurts babyboi

https://i.postimg.cc/tgxNhDGm/3f1c3f325882092a9eb46098159ec54f.gif

ELITEpower23

09-05-2021, 11:55 AM

2-1, I know it hurts babyboi

https://i.postimg.cc/tgxNhDGm/3f1c3f325882092a9eb46098159ec54f.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRhRBwvY/We-Good-Baby-And-You.png

SaintzFury13

09-05-2021, 11:56 AM

It's the only retort I need

KD beats LeBron head to head

Against hair eating retards, yes. I'm glad you've been able to find a retort that works against people who are on your level as far as intelligence is concerned. But against people who have a functioning brain, that kind logic can be ripped apart in a matter of minutes without much thought being given.

So once again, it is pretty sad that this is the best retort you have. It's a showcase of just how bad you are at this.

Manny98

09-05-2021, 11:59 AM

Against hair eating retards, yes. I'm glad you've been able to find a retort that works against people who are on your level as far as intelligence is concerned. But against people who have a functioning brain, that kind logic can be ripped apart in a matter of minutes without much thought being given.

So once again, it is pretty sad that this is the best retort you have. It's a showcase of just how bad you are at this.
https://i.postimg.cc/NG6rvFcV/images-1.jpg

SaintzFury13

09-05-2021, 12:13 PM

https://i.postimg.cc/NG6rvFcV/images-1.jpg

I'll chalk this up as another W for me at this point.

jayfan

09-05-2021, 12:23 PM

Yes he was, to be honest.

.

Bronbron23

09-05-2021, 01:32 PM

There is zero argument anyone was better than LeBron in 09, 10, 12 or 13. None. Anyone who debates those years is actually retarded. I’d say he was also the best in 2011 (yeah he choked he was still the best it wouldn’t have been such a big deal if he choked otherwise), 2014, 2016-18 and 2020 too

There's not zero argument at all. Kobe’s stats and accolades were good enough to be considered as good or better in 08 and 09. 2010 season bron was way to bad in the postseason to be considered the best. There's no argument after that though i agree with that

Bronbron23

09-05-2021, 01:42 PM

Wrong, no one was better in 2009. Period. And probably not in 2008 either.

He wasn't a champion yet and kobe still had good enough stats to go along with his chips and fmvp to give kobe the edge. It's the same reason why i didn't consider mj the best in the league in the 80's even though he had the best individual stats and accolades. He wasn't a winner yet.

Manny98

09-05-2021, 01:45 PM

There's not zero argument at all. Kobe’s stats and accolades were good enough to be considered as good or better in 08 and 09. 2010 season bron was way to bad in the postseason to be considered the best. There's no argument after that though i agree with that
Yep Pretty sure more people considered Kobe the best in 09 & 10

Not 100% sure if any of the older posters could clarify

Bronbron23

09-05-2021, 01:48 PM

Yep Pretty sure more people considered Kobe the best in 09 & 10

Not 100% sure if any of the older posters could clarify

Not sure wasn't around then but i don't recall everyone saying bron was the best whwn kobe was winning chips. At the time i actually remembered the debate being was kobe better than mj. Bron wasn't in the discussion until he started winning a couple chips in mia

SaintzFury13

09-05-2021, 02:23 PM

Yep Pretty sure more people considered Kobe the best in 09 & 10

They did not.

Not sure wasn't around then but i don't recall everyone saying bron was the best whwn kobe was winning chips. At the time i actually remembered the debate being was kobe better than mj. Bron wasn't in the discussion until he started winning a couple chips in mia

First off, no one considered Kobe better than MJ at the time. No one.

Second, Lebron was already considered the top player in the league by the end of 2009. It became the popular consensus in mid 2010 after LeBron's team beat Kobe's twice in the regular season and LeBron outplayed him in both meetings. That never changed once he went to Miami. LeBron was still considered by the majority to be the best in the world.

k0kakw0rld

09-05-2021, 02:47 PM

It's the only retort I need

KD beats LeBron head to head
You are clearly one of KD's burner account.

RRR3

09-05-2021, 02:51 PM

There's not zero argument at all. Kobe’s stats and accolades were good enough to be considered as good or better in 08 and 09. 2010 season bron was way to bad in the postseason to be considered the best. There's no argument after that though i agree with that
Kobe was probably the best in 08. 09 was Bron by a mile.

deathawaitu

09-05-2021, 03:02 PM

Lol Lebron being the best for at most 3 years is long?

Lebron stans are getting dumber every minute

SaintzFury13

09-05-2021, 03:06 PM

Lol Lebron being the best for at most 3 years is long?

Lebron stans are getting dumber every minute

If you think LeBron was only the best in the league for three years then you're the dumb one here.

Manny98

09-05-2021, 03:22 PM

Lol Lebron being the best for at most 3 years is long?

Lebron stans are getting dumber every minute

This

2012
2013
2016

Are the only years where LeBron was undisputed BITW

2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe (LeBron would have an argument if he didn't lose to f*cking Dwight Howard)
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Dirk
2014 - KD
2015 - Curry
2017 - KD
2018 - KD
2019 - KD/Kawhi
2020 - AD
2021 - KD/Giannis

Bronbron23

09-05-2021, 03:29 PM

Kobe was probably the best in 08. 09 was Bron by a mile.

Wouldn't say by a mile but i he definitely had a strong argument

Bronbron23

09-05-2021, 03:31 PM

They did not.

First off, no one considered Kobe better than MJ at the time. No one.

Second, Lebron was already considered the top player in the league by the end of 2009. It became the popular consensus in mid 2010 after LeBron's team beat Kobe's twice in the regular season and LeBron outplayed him in both meetings. That never changed once he went to Miami. LeBron was still considered by the majority to be the best in the world.

No there was a narrative at the time from some that kobe was as good. It wasn't the majority though.

And i don't know if bron was considered by most as the best in the league by the end of 09 it was very close between the 2

RRR3

09-05-2021, 03:47 PM

Wouldn't say by a mile but i he definitely had a strong argument
No there’s literally no logical argument for LeBron not being the best in 09. Try and make it I can debunk it easily. Lol

RRR3

09-05-2021, 03:48 PM

This

2012
2013
2016

Are the only years where LeBron was undisputed BITW

2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe (LeBron would have an argument if he didn't lose to f*cking Dwight Howard)
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Dirk
2014 - KD
2015 - Curry
2017 - KD
2018 - KD
2019 - KD/Kawhi
2020 - AD
2021 - KD/Giannis
But you just said he hadn’t been the best since 2013. Now he was the best in 2016? Manpee98 with his usual F tier trolling.

Bronbron23

09-05-2021, 03:54 PM

No there’s literally no logical argument for LeBron not being the best in 09. Try and make it I can debunk it easily. Lol

Well the easiest argument is bron still wasn't a champion and kobe was that year. Chips and fmvp aren't the only thing that matters but it does matter. It's the same reason why alot of people including mj himself didn't have mj ahead of bird and magic in the 80's.

RRR3

09-05-2021, 04:16 PM

Well the easiest argument is bron still wasn't a champion and kobe was that year. Chips and fmvp aren't the only thing that matters but it does matter. It's the same reason why alot of people including mj himself didn't have mj ahead of bird and magic in the 80's.
LeBron played significantly better against the team Kobe beat in the finals though. It wasn’t even close. Simply basing it off who won a ring and ignoring context makes you look very ignorant. Not sure how LeBron was supposed to win a ring with Mo Williams as his sidekick :confusedshrug:

Bronbron23

09-05-2021, 04:33 PM

LeBron played significantly better against the team Kobe beat in the finals though. It wasn’t even close. Simply basing it off who won a ring and ignoring context makes you look very ignorant. Not sure how LeBron was supposed to win a ring with Mo Williams as his sidekick :confusedshrug:
Well styles can make fights so beating the same team worse dosn't always mean a whole lot. And I'm not ignoring content. I'm not even saying kobe was better I'm sayiing based on kobe's stats, dominance and finals chip and fmvp he has an argument. It's fine if u disagree. Bron has a very strong argument also

RRR3

09-05-2021, 06:07 PM

Well styles can make fights so beating the same team worse dosn't always mean a whole lot. And I'm not ignoring content. I'm not even saying kobe was better I'm sayiing based on kobe's stats, dominance and finals chip and fmvp he has an argument. It's fine if u disagree. Bron has a very strong argument also
LeBron: 28.4/7.6/7.2/1.7/1.1 with 3.0 TOs on .489/.344/.780 (59.1 TS%), 122 ORTG, 13.2 BPM, .318 WS/48, 11.8 VORP, +21.2 ON/OFF, 10.05 RPM, 25.85 RPM WINS

Kobe: 26.8/5.2/4.9/1.5/0.5 with 2.6 TOS on .467/.351/.856 (56.1 TS%), 115 ORTG, 5.9 BPM, .206 WS/48, 5.9 VORP, +11.1 ON/OFF, 4.42 RPM, 14.79 RPM WINS

Playoffs

LeBron: 35.3/9.1/7.3/1.6/0.9 with 2.7 TOs on .510/.333/.749 (61.8 TS%), 128 ORTG, 17.5 BPM, .399 WS/48, 2.9 VORP, +8.4 ON/OFF (doesn’t mean much with this sample size though)

Kobe: 30.2/5.3/5.5/1.7/0.9 with 2.6 TOS on .457/.349/.883 (56.4 TS%), 117 ORTG, 9.1 BPM, .238 WS/48, 2.6 VORP, +12.4 ON/OFF (doesn’t mean as much with this sample size like I said)

Versus Orlando

LeBron: 38.5/8.3/8.0/1.2/1.2 with 4.2 TOs on .487/.297/.745 (59.1 TS%), 118 ORTG

Kobe: 32.4/5.6/7.4/1.4/1.4 with 3.2 TOs on .430/360/.841 (52.5 TS%), 111 ORGTG

This isn’t even close. You hating LeBron and being stupid isn’t an argument lol. LeBron won 66 games with Mo Williams+trash. Kobe won 65 with Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum. Btw RPM data isn’t available for playoffs.

Manny98

09-05-2021, 06:28 PM

RRR3

09-05-2021, 06:33 PM

RRR3: facts

Manny: butthurt because he got trolled by a few LeBron stans, resorting to emotional arguments we know he doesn’t believe.

LeCola

09-05-2021, 07:30 PM

2011 to 2015 (or 2016). So 4-5 years.

Axe

09-05-2021, 07:33 PM

It seems you can always be the best even if you're not invulnerable to undesirable losses.

Lebron23

09-05-2021, 07:36 PM

2008 to 2020

HBK_Kliq_2

09-05-2021, 08:06 PM

2010s would go like this in my opinion:

2010 - Kobe

2011 - Dirk

2012 - LeBron

2013 - LeBron

2014 - Durant

2015 - Curry

2016 - Kawhi

2017 - Kawhi until injury then Durant

2018 - Durant

2019 - Kawhi

2020 - Kawhi until bubble then Anthony Davis

2021 - Kawhi until injury then Giannis

Bronbron23

09-05-2021, 09:29 PM

LeBron: 28.4/7.6/7.2/1.7/1.1 with 3.0 TOs on .489/.344/.780 (59.1 TS%), 122 ORTG, 13.2 BPM, .318 WS/48, 11.8 VORP, +21.2 ON/OFF, 10.05 RPM, 25.85 RPM WINS

Kobe: 26.8/5.2/4.9/1.5/0.5 with 2.6 TOS on .467/.351/.856 (56.1 TS%), 115 ORTG, 5.9 BPM, .206 WS/48, 5.9 VORP, +11.1 ON/OFF, 4.42 RPM, 14.79 RPM WINS

Playoffs

LeBron: 35.3/9.1/7.3/1.6/0.9 with 2.7 TOs on .510/.333/.749 (61.8 TS%), 128 ORTG, 17.5 BPM, .399 WS/48, 2.9 VORP, +8.4 ON/OFF (doesn’t mean much with this sample size though)

Kobe: 30.2/5.3/5.5/1.7/0.9 with 2.6 TOS on .457/.349/.883 (56.4 TS%), 117 ORTG, 9.1 BPM, .238 WS/48, 2.6 VORP, +12.4 ON/OFF (doesn’t mean as much with this sample size like I said)

Versus Orlando

LeBron: 38.5/8.3/8.0/1.2/1.2 with 4.2 TOs on .487/.297/.745 (59.1 TS%), 118 ORTG

Kobe: 32.4/5.6/7.4/1.4/1.4 with 3.2 TOs on .430/360/.841 (52.5 TS%), 111 ORGTG

This isn’t even close. You hating LeBron and being stupid isn’t an argument lol. LeBron won 66 games with Mo Williams+trash. Kobe won 65 with Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum. Btw RPM data isn’t available for playoffs.

Great stats but stats aren't everything. Bron played a ball dominant style and kobe played in the triangle so bron is gonna have a bit better stats. Kobe also faced way more double and tripple teams than bron.

And I'm not hating bron. Just because i don't slob on his nuts like you and the rest of the bron stans on here it dosn't mean i hate him. Most of my arguments on here about bron actually have to do with his wack stans and the dumb trolling shit they say.

Again at the time kobe was absolutely in the discussion of best player in the world. You can pretend he wasn't all u want but it dosn't change the fact. Here are some articles that attest to this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/amp/the_best_nba_players_during_every_year_since_2000_ kobe_bryant_and_lebron_james_are_the_greatest_play ers_over_the_last_20_years/s1_16751_34759229

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/313661-top-10-nba-players-of-2009.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fadeawayworld.net/.amp/nba/the-best-nba-player-every-season-over-the-last-40-years

You can find articles that support bron also but to act like it's not a worthy argument now and back then is jus5 plain ignorance. You either didn't pay attention back then or your just in denial.

MaxPlayer

09-05-2021, 09:31 PM

Yes he was, to be honest.

.

This

Bronbron23

09-05-2021, 09:36 PM

Sportal

09-05-2021, 09:44 PM

They both have arguments

I would take LeBron in the regular season but lean towards Kobe in the postseason as i feel LeBron was still missing some important components in his game which prevented him from winning until 2012

I don't know why R3 is acting like it's not even close, LeBron himself literally acknowledged that Kobe was better in 09

https://youtu.be/Fv37ykpYk84

Because his front office kept getting end of their career players, or players on a downtrend? Is it that hard? Tell me which Cavs team should have won a title... The team with Delonte West as their 3rd best player? Or the one with 36 year old Shaq? Mo Williams crapping all over himself? Was Jamario Moon meant to help them get a championship? Wally Szczerbiak? Varejao? Ben Wallace averaging 1 point and 3 rebounds in the playoffs? J. J. Hickson? Daniel Gibson? 15ppg after his big contract with the Wizards(meant to be a part of a Big 3 in Washington) Antawn Jamison? That guy? They're meant to beat the Celtics Big 3 then Big 4, Spurs? Pistons? Shaq and Wade Heat? Lakers? Orlando who was a BETTER team? LeBron was meant to win at 22 years old, with his 2nd best player scoring 12 less ppg than him? He beat the #1 team in the East with Daniel Gibson scoring 13.5ppg... That was his 2nd option for scoring that series... Larry Hughes as good as people make him out to be averaged 7 point and 3 rebounds that series... These are guys you're leaning on in the NBA Championship? What do you want him to do? Drew Gooden was his 2nd best output in the Finals... 13ppg... Like? Even if LeBron averaged 30ppg, they don't win. The next year he gets the NEW Big 3 Celtics. The year after that he gets a team that is just better than his, just like the Spurs in 2007. Tell me what you wanted him to do?

He did win, but he didn't have a TEAM to win a championship.

MadDog

09-05-2021, 10:13 PM

12-16. You could make an argument for 2009, but Kobe might've been better. Was superior defensively and better in the half-court because of his jumpshot. Stats aren't everything, and by the numbers, LeBron was never better. People who actually watched his career know he was a better, and more refined player in Miami. 2018 as well. I wouldn't fault Kobe for having a better #2 or playing in an actual system. His numbers should be lower.

deathawaitu

09-05-2021, 10:16 PM

If you think LeBron was only the best in the league for three years then you're the dumb one here.

Got you shooked didn’t I?

Poor dumbass.

Embarrass yourself and name me which years Lebron was consider the best

Let us all have a laugh son :roll:

Hey Yo

09-05-2021, 10:54 PM

MadDog

09-05-2021, 10:59 PM

12-16?

Does that mean MJ was only the best player from 91-93 and 96-98?

Does it? :confusedshrug: I wouldn't make that argument, so where is the correlation?

Hey Yo

09-05-2021, 11:04 PM

You can only be the best player in the timeline you win your titles?

MadDog

09-05-2021, 11:12 PM

You can only be the best player in the timeline you win your titles?

Never said or implied that. Detroit won a title in 1990, but did anyone have Isiah>MJ?

coastalmarker99

09-05-2021, 11:17 PM

One could make a great case that Wilt was the best player in the NBA from 1959 to 1968.

Or Kareem from 1970 to 1980.

Hey Yo

09-05-2021, 11:51 PM

Never said or implied that. Detroit won a title in 1990, but did anyone have Isiah>MJ?

Seems pretty obvious that you used James' 3 titles in 5yrs to imply those are the only yrs he was the best in the world.

Team results at the end of the season shouldn't be end all factor.

Hey Yo

09-05-2021, 11:54 PM

One could make a great case that Wilt was the best player in the NBA from 1959 to 1968.

Or Kareem from 1970 to 1980.

Correct about Kareem. It's silly to suggest he wasn't the best player in the league during times he wasn't making deep playoff runs

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 12:15 AM

You can only be the best player in the timeline you win your titles?

No but i think you have to establish you can win at least. Winning does matter and mj and bron didn't win early in their careers. Sure not having great teams probably played a significant role in that but we really can't say for sure. All we know is they weren't Winning and others guys were while putting up great numbers also. That all said i'm not saying bron and mj didn't have an argument for being the best player early in their careers I'm just saying other guys had good arguments also.

RRR3

09-06-2021, 12:33 AM

Great stats but stats aren't everything. Bron played a ball dominant style and kobe played in the triangle so bron is gonna have a bit better stats. Kobe also faced way more double and tripple teams than bron.

And I'm not hating bron. Just because i don't slob on his nuts like you and the rest of the bron stans on here it dosn't mean i hate him. Most of my arguments on here about bron actually have to do with his wack stans and the dumb trolling shit they say.

Again at the time kobe was absolutely in the discussion of best player in the world. You can pretend he wasn't all u want but it dosn't change the fact. Here are some articles that attest to this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/amp/the_best_nba_players_during_every_year_since_2000_ kobe_bryant_and_lebron_james_are_the_greatest_play ers_over_the_last_20_years/s1_16751_34759229

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/313661-top-10-nba-players-of-2009.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fadeawayworld.net/.amp/nba/the-best-nba-player-every-season-over-the-last-40-years

You can find articles that support bron also but to act like it's not a worthy argument now and back then is jus5 plain ignorance. You either didn't pay attention back then or your just in denial.
Kobe was ball dominant too you ****ing retard. And of course you’re too dumb to realize RPM is strictly measuring impact. LeBron was factually better, you being butthurt about it and using quotes doesn’t matter. I’m giving you facts and you’re giving me opinions and you’re stupid enough to think you’re even remotely close to refuting anything I said. You can kick your legs and scream claim I’m biased towards LeBron all you want but I’m telling you stuff that is factual and you’re giving me emotional opinion based arguments, which is an actual sign of bias. I don’t care if everyone said Kobe was the best player back then either do you not realize that appealing to authority or appealing to the consensus is a logical fallacy? Of course you don’t you're an idiot who can’t think critically. This is like debating a toddler.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 12:37 AM

Because his front office kept getting end of their career players, or players on a downtrend? Is it that hard? Tell me which Cavs team should have won a title... The team with Delonte West as their 3rd best player? Or the one with 36 year old Shaq? Mo Williams crapping all over himself? Was Jamario Moon meant to help them get a championship? Wally Szczerbiak? Varejao? Ben Wallace averaging 1 point and 3 rebounds in the playoffs? J. J. Hickson? Daniel Gibson? 15ppg after his big contract with the Wizards(meant to be a part of a Big 3 in Washington) Antawn Jamison? That guy? They're meant to beat the Celtics Big 3 then Big 4, Spurs? Pistons? Shaq and Wade Heat? Lakers? Orlando who was a BETTER team? LeBron was meant to win at 22 years old, with his 2nd best player scoring 12 less ppg than him? He beat the #1 team in the East with Daniel Gibson scoring 13.5ppg... That was his 2nd option for scoring that series... Larry Hughes as good as people make him out to be averaged 7 point and 3 rebounds that series... These are guys you're leaning on in the NBA Championship? What do you want him to do? Drew Gooden was his 2nd best output in the Finals... 13ppg... Like? Even if LeBron averaged 30ppg, they don't win. The next year he gets the NEW Big 3 Celtics. The year after that he gets a team that is just better than his, just like the Spurs in 2007. Tell me what you wanted him to do?

He did win, but he didn't have a TEAM to win a championship.
He had a good enough team to win 66 games in the regular season

Talent wise the Cavs were better than the Magic, they were the favorites to go to the finals that year.

And he could have definitely played better against the Celtics in 08 & 10

RRR3

09-06-2021, 12:38 AM

“LeBron should have averaged 50 PPG, 38 wasn’t enough”-Manatee98

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 12:43 AM

Kobe was ball dominant too you ****ing retard. And of course you’re too dumb to realize RPM is strictly measuring impact. LeBron was factually better, you being butthurt about it and using quotes doesn’t matter. I’m giving you facts and you’re giving me opinions and you’re stupid enough to think you’re even remotely close to refuting anything I said.

I just gave u facts dipshit. People were clearly talking about kobe being better during that time.

And if rpm is the argument you want to fall on that's fine but that means mj better than bron and john stocton is 8th all time which elevates mj's chips against the jazz. Nice argument dumbass :facepalm

MadDog

09-06-2021, 12:49 AM

Seems pretty obvious that you used James' 3 titles in 5yrs to imply those are the only yrs he was the best in the world.

Team results at the end of the season shouldn't be end all factor.

That would make sense if in 2014 and 2015 he wasn't the best player. Ditto 2018. LeBron was and they're years he didn't win a title. Winning absolutely matters, but don't pretend its the end all be all. Or that it's the ONLY argument here.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 12:52 AM

“LeBron should have averaged 50 PPG, 38 wasn’t enough”-Manatee98
You realize it's not all about stats?

LeBron still had holes in his game back in 09

His game lacked polish, no consistent jumper,
His overall decision making in the clutch was questionable back then.

Same with Giannis in his two MVP seasons, people still looked at Kawhi,KD,and Lebron as better players because despite putting up worse numbers statistically those guys had more polished games that are harder for teams to game plan against in the playoffs

RRR3

09-06-2021, 12:56 AM

I just gave u facts dipshit. People were clearly talking about kobe being better during that time.

And if rpm is the argument you want to fall on that's fine but that means mj better than bron and john stocton is 8th all time which elevates mj's chips against the jazz. Nice argument dumbass :facepalm
MJ is better than LeBron lol. You can’t use any one stat to rank players you have to look at a bunch and analyze them. Stockton is one of the most impactful players ever and better than people realize as well.

You did not give me facts you gave me clips of people stating opinions. Opinions are not facts.

RRR3

09-06-2021, 12:58 AM

You realize it's not all about stats?

LeBron still had holes in his game back in 09

His game lacked polish, no consistent jumper,
His overall decision making in the clutch was questionable back then.

Same with Giannis in his two MVP seasons, people still looked at Kawhi,KD,and Lebron as better players because despite putting up worse numbers statistically those guys had more polished games that are harder for teams to game plan against in the playoffs
He was the best clutch player in the league in 2009 iirc, you’re using Skip Bayless level arguments you don’t even believe in. I’ll wait for you to come back with some facts. Love how you claim Durant is a god for losing to the Bucks but LeBron choked for losing to the Magic despite them having similar production scoring wise.

RRR3

09-06-2021, 12:59 AM

That would make sense if in 2014 and 2015 he wasn't the best player. Ditto 2018. LeBron was and they're years he didn't win a title. Winning absolutely matters, but don't pretend its the end all be all. Or that it's the ONLY argument here.
LeBron wasn’t the best player in 2015. Idk who was but it wasn’t him.

MadDog

09-06-2021, 01:03 AM

LeBron wasn’t the best player in 2015. Idk who was but it wasn’t him.

Its definitely arguable. I wouldn't care if someone said Curry was. :confusedshrug: For the sake of this thread though, I believe LeBron's best "longest tenure" must be in that 2012 - 2016 frame. Yes a case can be made in 2009\2010\2018, but if we're making it consecutive seasons, the years I highlighted are harder to debate.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 01:06 AM

He was the best clutch player in the league in 2009 iirc, you’re using Skip Bayless level arguments you don’t even believe in. I’ll wait for you to come back with some facts. Love how you claim Durant is a god for losing to the Bucks but LeBron choked for losing to the Magic despite them having similar production scoring wise.

How about going 1/5 from 3 in the 4th quarter of game 3

How about going 2/5 from the field and having 4 crucial turnovers down the stretch in game 4 at Orlando

How about completely disappearing in the 4th quarter in an elimination game 6 that series

He was terrible in clutch situations vs Orlando particularly on road games which they lost all 3

RRR3

09-06-2021, 01:38 AM

Its definitely arguable. I wouldn't care if someone said Curry was. :confusedshrug: For the sake of this thread though, I believe LeBron's best "longest tenure" must be in that 2012 - 2016 frame. Yes a case can be made in 2009\2010\2018, but if we're making it consecutive seasons, the years I highlighted are harder to debate.
I don’t think it’s that arguable. He wasn’t himself that year.

RRR3

09-06-2021, 01:40 AM

How about going 1/5 from 3 in the 4th quarter of game 3

How about going 2/5 from the field and having 4 crucial turnovers down the stretch in game 4 at Orlando

How about completely disappearing in the 4th quarter in an elimination game 6 that series

He was terrible in clutch situations vs Orlando particularly on road games which they lost all 3
Field goal percentage is irrelevant especially considering how many FTs he was getting. He also won them a game at the buzzer and two FTs to send another game to overtime so seems like extreme nitpicking. How come you don’t fault Durant for going 0-6 in game 7 OT? Almost like you hold LeBron to much higher standards.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 02:50 AM

Field goal percentage is irrelevant especially considering how many FTs he was getting. He also won them a game at the buzzer and two FTs to send another game to overtime so seems like extreme nitpicking. How come you don’t fault Durant for going 0-6 in game 7 OT? Almost like you hold LeBron to much higher standards.
Another point is that he shot like garbage from the free throw line in 4th quarters as well

Game 3 he missed 5 free throws in the 4th quarter

LeBron had so many holes in his game that you can pick out and criticize, you can't do that for Kobe that's why I am picking Kobe over him in a 7 game series

Btw don't know why you're bringing up KD, stay on topic bud

RRR3

09-06-2021, 03:20 AM

Another point is that he shot like garbage from the free throw line in 4th quarters as well

Game 3 he missed 5 free throws in the 4th quarter

LeBron had so many holes in his game that you can pick out and criticize, you can't do that for Kobe that's why I am picking Kobe over him in a 7 game series

Btw don't know why you're bringing up KD, stay on topic bud
Kobe famously had no holes in his game :rolleyes: And you’re picking the worse player, that makes total sense if you’re a retard I guess. “He shot like garbage from the FT line in 4 quarters”-brings up one quarter for the whole series :lol

I’m bringing up KD to point out you’re incapable of being consistent because you don’t believe anything you’re saying. By your own logic Kevin Durant choked dreadfully this past year and can’t be called the best player in the league :confusedshrug:

RRR3

09-06-2021, 03:21 AM

This is why you shouldn’t argue things you don’t actually believe. You end up looking like a complete moron. Not that manatee was smart to begin with.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 04:01 AM

RRR3

09-06-2021, 05:08 AM

Bottom line is that LeBron underperformed in 3 4th quarters in that series and his game had glaring holes that needed filling which was exploited against the Celtics the year after and against Dallas in 2011.

LeBron himself literally acknowledged that so I don't know why you're acting like im talking out my ass
No statistical evidence provided, ignoring him winning one game and sending another to OT, ignoring the total game impact, appeal to opinions again. You’re incredibly bad at debating.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 05:33 AM

No statistical evidence provided, ignoring him winning one game and sending another to OT, ignoring the total game impact, appeal to opinions again. You’re incredibly bad at debating.
Like I said earlier

You realize it's not all about stats?

LeBron still had holes in his game back in 09

His game lacked polish, no consistent jumper,
His overall decision making in the clutch was questionable back then.

Same with Giannis in his two MVP seasons, people still looked at Kawhi,KD,and Lebron as better players because despite putting up worse numbers statistically those guys had more polished games that are harder for teams to game plan against in the playoffs

RRR3

09-06-2021, 05:39 AM

And he responds with more opinions. Can’t make this shit up :lol

Manny98

09-06-2021, 08:29 AM

And he responds with more opinions. Can’t make this shit up :lol
**** your stats idgaf if LeBron has better"stats"

If we want to talk about stats then Kevin Love was a top 5 player in the NBA in 2014

Chris Paul was better than Kobe and Lebron in 08 because duuh win shares and PER

That's why you have to take both stats AND intangibles into account when evaluating players

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 10:21 AM

MJ is better than LeBron lol. You can’t use any one stat to rank players you have to look at a bunch and analyze them. Stockton is one of the most impactful players ever and better than people realize as well.

You did not give me facts you gave me clips of people stating opinions. Opinions are not facts.

Wow your amazing dude. Your the one that gave the rpm stat on why bron was better than kobe i just use it against you.

And people's opinions is all we have when determining who's better. This is because as u say there's alot of different stats and other things that we have to use and some of it is subjective and involves context as u said before. You didn't give facts on why bron is better you gave facts on why u think bron is better.

And your initial argument was nobody was saying kobe was better than bron back then and i gave you facts on how that isn't true.

Your all over the place just trying to save face when all u should do is stfu and let the intelligent non trolling big boys discuss this.

TheCorporation

09-06-2021, 10:27 AM

This is why you shouldn’t argue things you don’t actually believe. You end up looking like a complete moron. Not that manatee was smart to begin with.

What's going on is Manny changing his preferences all of a sudden?

TheCorporation

09-06-2021, 10:29 AM

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 10:33 AM

I guess this still needs to be reposted as a light slap on the hand

LeBron's 2018 playoff run alone was better than all of the peaks from any of Kobe's 20-year playoffs

https://i.postimg.cc/QtTcRFL4/FB_IMG_1528921326607.jpg

2 main problems with this. Kobe’s peak was in a harder defensive era than 2018 era and stats matter but they aren't everything.

TheCorporation

09-06-2021, 10:35 AM

2 main problems with this. Kobe’s peak was in a harder defensive era than 2018 era and stats matter but they aren't everything.

2 main problems with this. LeBron is an infinitely better player than Kobe and stats do matter, that's why Kobe is trash at ALL advanced metrics :lol

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 10:46 AM

2 main problems with this. LeBron is an infinitely better player than Kobe and stats do matter, that's why Kobe is trash at ALL advanced metrics :lol

Yeah stats matter as i already said but comparing stats including advanced stats of a player in the easiest era ever to a player in one of the hardest era's ever is kind of dumb but i expect nothing less from bron stans.

And lol at your advanced stats comback to me saying stats aren't everything . Only a bron stan can do some dumb shit like that:facepalm

RRR3

09-06-2021, 11:40 AM

Yeah stats matter as i already said but comparing stats including advanced stats of a player in the easiest era ever to a player in one of the hardest era's ever is kind of dumb but i expect nothing less from bron stans.

And lol at your advanced stats comback to me saying stats aren't everything . Only a bron stan can do some dumb shit like that:facepalm
LeBron’s best stats came during years Kobe was still a star. You’re really bad at this.

RRR3

09-06-2021, 11:43 AM

Wow your amazing dude. Your the one that gave the rpm stat on why bron was better than kobe i just use it against you.

And people's opinions is all we have when determining who's better. This is because as u say there's alot of different stats and other things that we have to use and some of it is subjective and involves context as u said before. You didn't give facts on why bron is better you gave facts on why u think bron is better.

And your initial argument was nobody was saying kobe was better than bron back then and i gave you facts on how that isn't true.

Your all over the place just trying to save face when all u should do is stfu and let the intelligent non trolling big boys discuss this.
This was a lot of words that said nothing but proved further you’re a very stupid individual. You didn’t use it against me I agreed MJ>LeBron, you thought you could “catch” me on that but you can’t because I’m consistent. People’s opinions are not what we have to determine who is better, you sound like an infant unable to form his own opinion. You can keep kicking and screaming about the data showing LeBron was massively more impactful than Kobe in 09 all you want those numbers are never changing. I never denied some people said Kobe was better but they were idiots then and they’re idiots now so I don’t care. I’m not sure why peak LeBron being better than non peak Kobe is even remotely debatable but this is ISH after all

Manny98

09-06-2021, 11:51 AM

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 11:58 AM

LeBron’s best stats came during years Kobe was still a star. You’re really bad at this.

Holy shit you really are slow. My response to corporation was to his 2018 bron stat. Try to keep up buddy:facepalm

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 12:02 PM

This was a lot of words that said nothing but proved further you’re a very stupid individual. You didn’t use it against me I agreed MJ>LeBron, you thought you could “catch” me on that but you can’t because I’m consistent. People’s opinions are not what we have to determine who is better, you sound like an infant unable to form his own opinion. You can keep kicking and screaming about the data showing LeBron was massively more impactful than Kobe in 09 all you want those numbers are never changing. I never denied some people said Kobe was better but they were idiots then and they’re idiots now so I don’t care. I’m not sure why peak LeBron being better than non peak Kobe is even remotely debatable but this is ISH after all

Consistent? Forever you've been saying bron better than mj. It's all good though. I never actually said kobe was better than bron at the end of 00's all i said is a argument could be made. I could care less if bron was better than kobe. Neither is my favorite playe.

SaintzFury13

09-06-2021, 12:18 PM

09 wasn't LeBrons peak you stupid retard :facepalm

LeBron literally said himself that Kobe was better than him in 09 yet here you are trying to argue that 09 LeBron was so much better than Kobe :facepalm

LeBron obviously wasn't as impactful as you make him out to be because otherwise he would have won

LeBron can say that all he wants to. Kobe wasn't better than him in 09.

He had a good enough team to win 66 games in the regular season

Talent wise the Cavs were better than the Magic, they were the favorites to go to the finals that year.

Magic matched up a lot better and had more all star talent. There's a reason why they won the regular season series against them 2-1. In fact the only game the Cavaliers won was by four and that was due to a 40 point effort from LeBron.

And no, they were not the favorites. The Lakers were.

And he could have definitely played better against the Celtics in 08 & 10

You're really about to critique LeBron stating that he "definitely" could have played better in a series where he dropped 45 points in game 7 against one of the best defensive teams in the league that season.

Stop trying to pretend you aren't biased towards the man at this point.

SaintzFury13

09-06-2021, 12:21 PM

No there was a narrative at the time from some that kobe was as good. It wasn't the majority though.

So in other words, literally what I just said.

And i don't know if bron was considered by most as the best in the league by the end of 09 it was very close between the 2

He was considered the best by the majority. You can claim it was due to the MVP award and his team having the superior record and to be honest, you'd have a very good point. But he was considered the best by the majority.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 12:26 PM

LeBron can say that all he wants to. Kobe wasn't better than him in 09.

Magic matched up a lot better and had more all star talent. There's a reason why they won the regular season series against them 2-1. In fact the only game the Cavaliers won was by four and that was due to a 40 point effort from LeBron.

And no, they were not the favorites. The Lakers were.

You're really about to critique LeBron stating that he "definitely" could have played better in a series where he dropped 45 points in game 7 against one of the best defensive teams in the league that season.

Stop trying to pretend you aren't biased towards the man at this point.

A team that won 66 games in the the regular season weren't favorites to go to the finals?

I have heard it all :lol

Yes he could have definitely played better against Boston in 08, the fact that he shot 35% from the field and they still barely lost shows that series was winnable and LeBron could have won a championship in his first stint in Cleveland

You and RRR3 and all of the deranged lunatic LeBron stans are the ones being biased.

I have given LeBron so much credit when he deserves it like his performance in the 2016 finals was the greatest in NBA history.

But you guys act like he's perfect and fail to ever acknowledge his flaws it's pathetic, you are almost just as bad as the 3balls of the world

ELITEpower23

09-06-2021, 12:29 PM

A team that won 66 games in the the regular season weren't favorites to go to the finals?

I have heard it all :lol

Yes he could have definitely played better against Boston in 08, the fact that he shot 35% from the field and they still barely lost shows that series was winnable and LeBron could have won a championship in his first stint in Cleveland

Interesting. So you only rely on regular season wins? Did you know the 2018 Warriors won less games than the 2018 Raptors. A team that LeBron dismantled three years in a row.

Manny98

09-06-2021, 12:30 PM

Interesting. So you only rely on regular season wins? Did you know the 2018 Warriors won less games than the 2018 Raptors. A team that LeBron dismanted three years in a row

Did they win 66 games?

No so STFU, and the Raptors were favorites to come out of the East that year nobody is denying that

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 12:35 PM

So in other words, literally what I just said.

He was considered the best by the majority. You can claim it was due to the MVP award and his team having the superior record and to be honest, you'd have a very good point. But he was considered the best by the majority.

That's fine i never argued otherwise. My argument was just that kobe had an argument.

And The majority aren't always right when it comes to anything. Bias and mass thinking comes to much into play. This couldn't be more true than in kobe's case because of the whole rape case. He lost alot of supporters after that.

ELITEpower23

09-06-2021, 12:36 PM

Did they win 66 games?

No so STFU, and the Raptors were favorites to come out of the East that year nobody is denying that

Did you know the 2018 Warriors won less games than the 2018 Raptors. A team that LeBron dismantled three years in a row? Focus my son, class is in session.

I know you're just typing to type but I'm going to put you through reform so that you come out a better, more educated individual.

-Professor Elite

Manny98

09-06-2021, 12:40 PM

Did you know the 2018 Warriors won less games than the 2018 Raptors. A team that LeBron dismantled three years in a row? Focus my son, class is in session.

I know you're just typing to type but I'm going to put you through reform so that you come out a better, more educated individual.

-Professor Elite
What's your point

What has that got to do with the thread

ELITEpower23

09-06-2021, 01:05 PM

What's your point

What has that got to do with the thread

You said the 2009 Cavs were favorites because of their regular season win-record. Then I firmly but respectfully slapped your mouth to wake you up. Stay in class you have a lot to learn young one.

Just because you won the most or second most games in a season doesn't mean you are a clear cut favorite. The 3rd best record or lower wins sometimes too.

Championship Winners / Record in the NBA

04: Pistons / 6th
05: Spurs/ 3rd
06: Heat / 5th
07: Spurs / 3rd
10: Lakers / 3rd
11: Mavericks / 4th
12: Heat / 4th
16: Cavs / 3rd
18: Warriors / 3rd
20: Lakers / 3rd
21: Bucks / 7th

From 2004 to 2021 it happened many times. 11 times to be precise.

-Professor Elite

Manny98

09-06-2021, 01:11 PM

I said favorites to make the finals not win it all

Learn to read

RRR3

09-06-2021, 01:31 PM

RRR3

09-06-2021, 01:31 PM

Consistent? Forever you've been saying bron better than mj. It's all good though. I never actually said kobe was better than bron at the end of 00's all i said is a argument could be made. I could care less if bron was better than kobe. Neither is my favorite playe.
I always say MJ is GOAT unless I’m trolling. Not my fault you can’t keep up due to being severely brain damaged. No there wasn’t an argument in 09. At all. Not even close. Stop trying to argue facts.

hateraid

09-06-2021, 01:32 PM

:roll:

Bronbron23

09-06-2021, 01:35 PM

I always say MJ is GOAT unless I’m trolling. Not my fault you can’t keep up due to being severely brain damaged. No there wasn’t an argument in 09. At all. Not even close. Stop trying to argue facts.

Right because it's so easy to distinguish from when your trolling or being serious. Stfu dude your always talking bron better than mj so i guess your always trolling. At least your trolling ass admits it:facepalm

RRR3

09-06-2021, 01:55 PM

Right because it's so easy to distinguish from when your trolling or being serious. Stfu dude your always talking bron better than mj so i guess your always trolling. At least your trolling ass admits it:facepalm
No I’m not “always doing that”. Posts to 3ball shouldn’t be taken seriously but of course you’re too stupid to realize that.

SaintzFury13

09-06-2021, 03:28 PM

A team that won 66 games in the the regular season weren't favorites to go to the finals?

I have heard it all :lol

I misread your post. Either way, it doesn't really disprove anything.

Yes he could have definitely played better against Boston in 08, the fact that he shot 35% from the field and they still barely lost shows that series was winnable and LeBron could have won a championship in his first stint in Cleveland

Not really. Again, the Boston Celtics were an elite defensive team. It's hard to fault LeBron for not being able to shoot the ball consistently well in that series against a team like that. It's amazing that Cleveland even took them to 7 games to begin with. To even try to suggest that LeBron is the reason they lost after he was the reason they almost won in the first place? The only deranged lunatic here is you.

And even if they get past Boston, why on earth do you think they have any chance against the Lakers? Granted, they are without Bynum, but the Cavaliers in 2008 don't have anyone who can realistically guard Pau Gasol. And LeBron at that point didn't develop into an elite defensive player yet so it's not like he was going to do much to stop Kobe. Cleveland was not ready in 2008, nor were they ready in 2007 when they made it there the first time.

You and RRR3 and all of the deranged lunatic LeBron stans are the ones being biased.

You are the one throwing around the "KD is 2-1 vs LeBron in the finals" like it's supposed to prove something. You are the one still clinging to the "KD surpassed LeBron in 2014" narrative even though that's an incredibly laughable statement to make because no, he didn't.

If I was being biased I wouldn't acknowledge LeBron's faults and place in history. I wouldn't acknowledge he team hopped and that his second return to Cleveland wasn't a genuine "I'm here to do it for Cleveland" thing like he claimed. It's called having a brain and using it. If you're going to use obvious bullshit to try to justify your agenda, I'm going to call you out on it. It's as simple as that.

I have given LeBron so much credit when he deserves it like his performance in the 2016 finals was the greatest in NBA history.

Acknowledging something that is literally popular consensus doesn't prove anything. Saying "see, LeBron's 2016 performance was legendary" tells me nothing, because of course it was. You'd have to be a special kind of retard to think it isn't anything but one of the greatest finals performances of all time.

But you guys act like he's perfect and fail to ever acknowledge his flaws it's pathetic, you are almost just as bad as the 3balls of the world

If that were the case, I wouldn't continue to claim that Jordan is the GOAT and he isn't. You are not acknowledging his flaws. You are making up obvious bullshit to fulfill a very obvious agenda. Stop acting like a baby and just admit you've been full of shit this entire time and that you are anti-LeBron.

RRR3

09-06-2021, 03:31 PM

I misread your post. Either way, it doesn't really disprove anything.

Not really. Again, the Boston Celtics were an elite defensive team. It's hard to fault LeBron for not being able to shoot the ball consistently well in that series against a team like that. It's amazing that Cleveland even took them to 7 games to begin with. To even try to suggest that LeBron is the reason they lost after he was the reason they almost won in the first place? The only deranged lunatic here is you.

And even if they get past Boston, why on earth do you think they have any chance against the Lakers? Granted, they are without Bynum, but the Cavaliers in 2008 don't have anyone who can realistically guard Pau Gasol. And LeBron at that point didn't develop into an elite defensive player yet so it's not like he was going to do much to stop Kobe. Cleveland was not ready in 2008, nor were they ready in 2007 when they made it there the first time.

You are the one throwing around the "KD is 2-1 vs LeBron in the finals" like it's supposed to prove something. You are the one still clinging to the "KD surpassed LeBron in 2014" narrative even though that's an incredibly laughable statement to make because no, he didn't.

If I was being biased I wouldn't acknowledge LeBron's faults and place in history. I wouldn't acknowledge he team hopped and that his second return to Cleveland wasn't a genuine "I'm here to do it for Cleveland" thing like he claimed. It's called having a brain and using it. If you're going to use obvious bullshit to try to justify your agenda, I'm going to call you out on it. It's as simple as that.

Acknowledging something that is literally popular consensus doesn't prove anything. Saying "see, LeBron's 2016 performance was legendary" tells me nothing, because of course it was. You'd have to be a special kind of retard to think it isn't anything but one of the greatest finals performances of all time.

If that were the case, I wouldn't continue to claim that Jordan is the GOAT and he isn't. You are not acknowledging his flaws. You are making up obvious bullshit to fulfill a very obvious agenda. Stop acting like a baby and just admit you've been full of shit this entire time and that you are anti-LeBron.
He’s not even anti LeBron he’s just asshurt about some LeBron poster. He’s a huge LeBron fan.