Lowest Reasonable Rank for Jordan

[8Ball]

This thread is to discuss the lowest reasonable rank for Jordan.


I would say top 5.


You have legitimate scholars that don't believe Jordan is the GOAT, myself included.



I have Jordan #3 behind Bron and Kareem.

[outofstomach]

the lebron thread made you so angry that you had to make this one? :lol

[90sgoat]

You can put Bird and Kareem above him, so I would say 3 is the lowest.

[ELITEpower23]

Top 4

LeBron, Kareem, Russell all have a case.

[90sgoat]

Top 4

LeBron, Kareem, Russell all have a case.

Lebron has no case.

[ELITEpower23]

Lebron has no case.

False. It's not 1998 it's 2021 keep up.

[Bronbron23]

This thread is to discuss the lowest reasonable rank for Jordan.


I would say top 5.


You have legitimate scholars that don't believe Jordan is the GOAT, myself included.



I have Jordan #3 behind Bron and Kareem.

Same as bron. Anywhere from 1-10

[Phoenix]

Jordan is in tier 1 with Kareem, Russell and Lebron. Where you choose to rank him amongst a sea of varying subjective opinions, bias and criteria is irrelevant. That said, f**k 'rankings' and stick to tiers.

[8Ball]

Lebron has no case.

Why does Bird have a case?


And yes LeBron has a case over Jordan. It's being discussed all over the world. If there wasn't a case, there would be no discussion.

[Manny98]

Jordan is in tier 1 with Kareem, Russell and Lebron. Where you choose to rank him amongst a sea of varying subjective opinions, bias and criteria is irrelevant. That said, f**k 'rankings' and stick to tiers.

This

[Bronbron23]

Why does Bird have a case?


And yes LeBron has a case over Jordan. It's being discussed all over the world. If there wasn't a case, there would be no discussion.

Birds case is a short one but a good one. Injuries cut his career short but what he did in the 80's is impressive. He beat some of the best players and teams in history. He Beat magic and kareem 2 top 10 greats. Maybe top 5 depending on how you view them. He beat and swept mj another top 5 and arguable goat. He beat the bad boy pistons another all time great team. If bron deserves extra credit for beating the 16 warriors bird should get extra extra credit for beating all 2 all time great teams and 3 arguable top 5 all time.

[Phoenix]

Birds case is a short one but a good one. Injuries cut his career short but what he did in the 80's is impressive. He beat some of the best players and teams in history. He Beat magic and kareem 2 top 10 greats. Maybe top 5 depending on how you view them. He beat and swept mj another top 5 and arguable goat. He beat the bad boy pistons another all time great team. If bron deserves extra credit for beating the 16 warriors bird should get extra extra credit for beating all 2 all time great teams and 3 arguable top 5 all time.

There was nothing especially 'GOAT' worthy about beating the mid 80's Bulls with young MJ. He was dropping numbers but the team was clearly extremely beatable. Now, your point about Bird beating two inarguable top 10 players in Magic and Kareem is onto something. Even though Bird himself had a crew Mchale is what? Top 40ish? Chief I don't think is even a top 50 guy( was he on the greatest 50 team back in 1997? Too lazy to look up...he wouldn't be now with all the great players who've come out the last quarter century). The threepeat MVPs from 84 to 86 are impressive given the talent in that decade as well.

[Bronbron23]

There was nothing especially 'GOAT' worthy about beating the mid 80's Bulls with young MJ. He was dropping numbers but the team was clearly extremely beatable. Now, your point about Bird beating two inarguable top 10 players in Magic and Kareem is onto something. Even though Bird himself had a crew Mchale is what? Top 40ish? Chief I don't think is even a top 50 guy( was he on the greatest 50 team back in 1997? Too lazy to look up...he wouldn't be now with all the great players who've come out the last quarter century). The threepeat MVPs from 84 to 86 are impressive given the talent in that decade as well.

Yeah mj's 80s bulls team weren't goat worthy but mj still was. Bird can still say he beat mj, magic and kareem. That's 3 of the top 5 arguably. That's still pretty sick even though kareem was on the back end of his career and mj was at the beginning. Plus he just beat mj he demolished him and mj was giving all he could. Still impressive.

[Phoenix]

Yeah mj's 80s bulls team weren't goat worthy but mj still was. Bird can still say he beat mj, magic and kareem. That's 3 of the top 5 arguably. That's still pretty sick even though kareem was on the back end of his career and mj was at the beginning. Plus he just beat mj he demolished him and mj was giving all he could. Still impressive.

Yes but again, there's levels to this and to MJ. Having a GOAT level team( 86 Celtics), being a GOAT level player himself (Bird) and playing a GOAT level player pre-prime on a bad team, again, isn't really saying a whole lot. Beating the Bulls in the 90s would have meant something.

In the 80s, and especially what MJ had in 87 to work with? Nah. Like yeah Bird called MJ 'God in shoes' or whatever for his individual assault, but I doubt if you asked Larry what his greatest NBA achievements were, 'beating a 22 year old MJ and a crappy Bulls team' ain't making the cut. That would have been like Duncan beating Lebron at 22 in the 2007 finals. I doubt he ranks that among the best things he's ever achieved in basketball regardless of what Lebron would become.

[Gudo]

#2 is the lowest fair ranking for Jordan if you have KAJ as #1.

[hateraid]

If you're subjective you can make cases for Jordan, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem. When accolades are compared Jordan is top 3 at least depending which way it's spun. Eye Test top 3. Impact is where I struggle as it was proven Jordan ran a championship calibre team in his absence so there's never been a proven measuring stick Jordan can elevate a shitty team. Top 3 is reasonable. Top 5 is reaching to push him out and start being bias.

[Hey Yo]

Considering he needed to quit and recover for almost 2 full seasons during his prime is definitely frowned upon by his peers.

He needs to be compared to other players who took the similar route. Since there isnt any... he's in the quitting tier all by himself

[RRR3]

Probably 4th. You’d have to be inconsistent to have him any lower IMO.

[MadDog]

Jordan is the top scorer in the regular-season, playoffs & finals. Many love analytics on ISH - well Jordan has them on his side as well, such as WS48\PER\BPM. Then there's defense, and Jordan has 9x 1st team all-defensive selections. Dominance too profound for anything less than 3. If someone was ALL about winning then Russell might have the best argument over Jordan.

[hold this L]

Top 2

[hateraid]

Jordan is the top scorer in the regular-season, playoffs & finals. Many love analytics on ISH - well Jordan has them on his side as well, such as WS48\PER\BPM. Then there's defense, and Jordan has 9x 1st team all-defensive selections. Dominance too profound for anything less than 3. If someone was ALL about winning then Russell might have the best argument over Jordan.

It is a nice arguement for why you think Jordan is the greatest. Unfortunately that's not what the OP is asking. Context my friend

[MadDog]

It is a nice arguement for why you think Jordan is the greatest. Unfortunately that's not what the OP is asking. Context my friend

You misread. That "argument" was to say Jordan is no less than 3. Which is what I said in plain writing. That last bit is giving Russell a nod for GOAT. His championships are hard to argue if winning is what takes precedent.

[HylianNightmare]

2.

[Mask the Embiid]

2.

I can see people putting lebron over him.
I can see people putting kareem over him
I can see people putting Bill over him

[AirBonner]

Who did MJ beat compared to Bird and LeBron?

[8Ball]

Who did MJ beat compared to Bird and LeBron?

MJ really didn't beat any finals opponents that worthy.

Lakers had no Kareem.
Nobody remembers Portland as anything special, kinda like 2020 Miami Heat.
Barkley in 93 but that wasn't as good as 2012 3 MVP OKC.

Probably Utah Jazz 1998 was Jordan's best finals. Which is probably on same level as 2012 OKC.