Averaging 30 in triangle & winning titles in triangle = goat pure bball achievement

[3ba11]

It requires the most skill and ability, aka averaging 30 and winning titles without live dribbles/ball-domination.

Since MJ and Kobe achieved this feat that requires maximum skill and ability, they are #1 and #2 all-time - no other players in history have such a clear-cut demonstration of basketball skill and ability..

They invented the footwork needed to produce a lot within the triangle (teammate production is unaffected), and this footwork has become a mainstream skillset that all the top players have (KD, Dirk, Kawhi, Booker, Hakeem, etc), and other players strive for (Giannis, Lebron, Luka, etc).

This is the best reason MJ and Kobe are #1 and #2 all-time - it's a legit pure basketball achievement that requires goat skill and this skill changed the game forever - anytime you hear someone say "they need a mid-range game", they're talking about the footwork MJ invented (and his clone took to another level)..

[3ba11]

In b4 someone posts a bunch of gifs with Kobe live-dribbling a lot

That was the exception, not the rule - the rule was that the offense had no point guard role and was equal-opportunity (everyone ran the same routes) - Kobe had to get his stats within this framework, hence the use of MJ footwork to produce without ball-domination

[ShawkFactory]

We're starting to see a lot more Kobe-speak coming out of you recently.

Wonder why :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Whatever you need to tell yourself

[tontoz]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/g195/tontoz/.highres/not-this-again.jpg

[ELITEpower23]

We're starting to see a lot more Kobe-speak coming out of you recently.

Wonder why :lol

3KobeBall :lol

12be fans in shambles

[Kenny Griffin]

OP if you wanna do jordan and kobe a favor. stop posting. you're giving lebron legitimacy by obsessing over him. your hatred for lebron is why he's top 3 all time and arguably top 2. hate equals greatness

people like me and you made lebron great. we're the reason why espn yells in paul pierces ear to talk more about lebron

we made lebron. theyre making kobe. Jordan doesn't need your help. just retire

I'm leaving. you should do the same. this place is realgm trash now

[AirBonner]

LeBron is 16-6 vs Kobe

[3ba11]

OP if you wanna do jordan and kobe a favor. stop posting. you're giving lebron legitimacy by obsessing over him. your hatred for lebron is why he's top 3 all time and arguably top 2. hate equals greatness

people like me and you made lebron great. we're the reason why espn yells in paul pierces ear to talk more about lebron

we made lebron. theyre making kobe. Jordan doesn't need your help. just retire

I'm leaving. you should do the same. this place is realgm trash now


The bolded is horseshit.. I was reading up until there.

I agree that threads like these by posters like me give legitimacy to Lebron but that outcome (giving Lebron legitimacy) enables my objective of arguiing about it - it's a topic I enjoy arguing about because of how wrong everyone is on the topic (putting Lebron on MJ's level).

Comparing Lebron to Jordan is like comparing Hakeem to Jordan, aka no one gave a shit that Hakeem was the #2 player when Jordan was in the league.

[Phoenix]

Kenny telling someone to stop posting, that's golden. Then claiming he's gone.

See ya tomorrow.

[8Ball]

Lol triangle basketball.

[3ba11]

Lol triangle basketball.


^^^ Exactly - that's why it never won for 50 years before MJ/Kobe and hasn't won since..

Only MJ, Kobe and a few other non-centers have the skillset to win without dominating the ball, aka MJ, Kobe, Bird, Kawhi, Dirk, KD, Giannis - see a trend here?... The mj-mid-range and post skillset yields the highest team ceilings/Finals records with the least help (no super-teams/3rd stars except Bird's teams).. They win with the least help because their skillset produces without dominating the ball, thus yielding the best team strategy and teammate fits/maximization.

[8Ball]

They could have replaced triangle basketball with Bron/Luka ball and achieved better results.

[3ba11]

They could have replaced triangle basketball with Bron/Luka ball and achieved better results.


Lebron/Magic are 9-10 in the Finals - so ball-domination, aka Westbrook-triple-double ball mostly loses regardless of who is employing it (Magic or Lebron), or coach, cast or odds

[Manny98]

^^^ Exactly - that's why it never won for 50 years before MJ/Kobe and hasn't won since..

Only MJ, Kobe and a few other non-centers have the skillset to win without dominating the ball, aka MJ, Kobe, Bird, Kawhi, Dirk, KD, Giannis - see a trend here?... The mj-mid-range and post skillset yields the highest team ceilings/Finals records with the least help (no super-teams/3rd stars except Bird's teams).. They win with the least help because their skillset produces without dominating the ball, thus yielding the best team strategy and teammate fits/maximization.
This Kobe and Jordans GOAT skillsets allow them to fit in any roster without reducing there other teammates in the process

[StrongLurk]

I've always thought Kobe was better than MJ, he took MJs moves but made them sharper and added additional counters...so yeah Kobe>MJ.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

"Averaging 30 in triangle & winning titles in triangle = goat pure bball achievement"

Shaq literally did it three times. Put some respek on his name.


I've always thought Kobe was better than MJ, he took MJs moves but made them sharper and added additional counters...so yeah Kobe>MJ.

You must not be acquainted with the gimmick. :lol

[RRR3]

LeBron doubled Kobe’s FMVP total and it tears OP up inside.

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt won a title with the triangle in 1967 with the 76ers.



As he averaged in the regular season 24 PPG 24 REB 8 AST and 10 BPG on 68 FG%


And then in the playoffs. 1967 PLAYOFFS 21.7 PTS 29.1 REBS 9.0 ASTS 9.2 BLKS FG% 57.9

[SATAN]

They could have replaced triangle basketball with Bron/Luka ball and achieved better results.

https://i.insider.com/5489beda6bb3f74f616de62f?width=1200&format=jpeg

“Phil called me the best player he has ever coached.”

- Dennis Rodman on Phil Jackson
(Via Full Send Podcast )

goat pure bball achievement from the real FMVP :rockon:

[SATAN]

^^^ Exactly - that's why it never won for 50 years before MJ/Kobe and hasn't won since..



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/13/78/10/1378105bfc6bd879de0cffa795860eae.jpg

It was because MJ played in the weakest era. Weak competition.

[3ba11]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/13/78/10/1378105bfc6bd879de0cffa795860eae.jpg

It was because MJ played in the weakest era. Weak competition.


Rodman didn't have to score, so of course he didn't think any offense was complicated

carry on

the bulls played 4 on 5 with Rodman, while Pippen averaged 17.6 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs - that's the worst offensive help of any team in NBA history, yet they won chips and had #1 all-time offenses because of the GOAT

[3ba11]

Wilt won a title with the triangle in 1967 with the 76ers.



As he averaged in the regular season 24 PPG 24 REB 8 AST and 10 BPG on 68 FG%


And then in the playoffs. 1967 PLAYOFFS 21.7 PTS 29.1 REBS 9.0 ASTS 9.2 BLKS FG% 57.9


It's common knowledge and well-documented that those Sixers used a few concepts of the triangle but that wasn't their offense - the Bulls/Lakers are the only winning teams that can answer the question "what's your offense?" with "the triangle"..

Ultimately, the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a bailout on 10-20% of possessions - so it didn't win for 50 years until it met the goat bailout artists it needed - then it won 11 chips in 18 years..

Indeed, the offense is infact a garbage offense that never won without goat bailout artists to plug it's holes.. Those goat bailout artists invented the footwork needed to score quickly (bailout), thereby not breaking the offense most of the time.. Anytime someone says "he has a good mid-range game", they're talking about the bailout, quick-score footwork that MJ invented and Kobe copied.. That's a pure basketball argument for GOAT

[3ba11]

reminder bump

here's the top 10 based on the idea that centers & ball-dominators need the most help (and therefore ranked lower):

1) MJ
2) Kobe
3) Bird
4) Kareem
5) Wilt
6) Russell
7) Magic
8) Hakeem
9) Shaq
10) Duncan


honorable mention players that will enter top 10 upon winning 1 more ring: KD, Kawhi, Giannis

[getting_old]

Triangle - just dick around with the ball and if a shot doesn't open up and the clock is down, just get it to a star who can singlehandedly set up a great shot

Positives - works great when that man was Michael, Shaq, Kobe

Negatives - doesn't work when that man is Kwame

[Honor Boost]

Give this a rest 12ball. Kobe was lucky enough to ride the coattails of Shaq for three of the rings so if anything Shaq is the GOAT of triangle not Bryant.