Pippen set the table so that Jordan cold serve dinner

[AussieSteve]

Just some interesting facts about Pippen.

- The Bulls lost Jordan in '94 and still won 55 games (58 win pace in Pippen's 72 games), narrowly missing the conference finals
- They then lost Grant as well in '95 and Pippen still manged to have them at a 35-29 record when Jordan returned (34-28 in games Pippen played).
- He never failed to win 50 games in 6 seasons without Jordan, except for '02 when the Blazers won 49... and that was only because Pippen missed 20 games (they were on a 53 win pace in games he started, 37 win pace in games he didn't).

Pippen was a player who made every team he ever played on good. He raised a team's floor better than almost anyone in history.

Jordan was able to serve dinner because Pippen set the table. Jordan needed Pippen to set the table. Pippen needed Jordan to serve dinner.

[Gohan]

Just some interesting facts about Pippen.

- The Bulls lost Jordan in '94 and still won 55 games (58 win pace in Pippen's 72 games), narrowly missing the conference finals
- They then lost Grant as well in '95 and Pippen still manged to have them at a 35-29 record when Jordan returned (34-28 in games Pippen played).
- He never failed to win 50 games in 6 seasons without Jordan, except for '02 when the Blazers won 49... and that was only because Pippen missed 20 games (they were on a 53 win pace in games he started, 37 win pace in games he didn't).

Pippen was a player who made every team he ever played on good. He raised a team's floor better than almost anyone in history.

Jordan was able to serve dinner because Pippen set the table. Jordan needed Pippen to set the table. Pippen needed Jordan to serve dinner.

I thought this was basketball not a damn banquet, in other words: shut the f up

[ELITEpower23]

I thought this was basketball not a damn banquet, in other words: shut the f up

Good morning. Why are you so triggered by my post?

[Round Mound]

MJ never wanted to play without Pippen. That says it all.

[SATAN]

Michael Jordan relied on Pippen. Without Pippen Michael Jordan has 0 rings and would just be remembered as some athletic freak chucker/cancer.

[AussieSteve]

I thought this was basketball not a damn banquet, in other words: shut the f up

It's a metaphor. Maybe not a very good one.

Pippen was the floor raiser on the team. He made pretty much every team he played on a conference final calibre team.

Jordan couldn't do that. His best record in 5 seasons without Pippen was 40 wins. He never had a season over .500.

But Jordan could take a team that was already very good and make them essentially unbeatable. He was the ceiling raiser.

[3ba11]

MJ never wanted to play without Pippen. That says it all.


Based on how hard it was for Jordan to raise Pippen to a meager 16 ppg, it's understandable why Jordan didn't want to start over building someone else

It's amusing because MJ was was the opposite of spoiled only knew how to work hard for everything, so he didn't realize that some teammates are good right away and 16 ppg is pretty meager help for a multiple-time champion..

This meager production/efficiency from Pippen forced MJ to achieve goat stats to win - but MJ liked it this way - if Pippen was an elite 1st option or FMVP sidekick like everyone else enjoyed, Jordan would've 3-peated right away and retired/got bored sooner.

[AussieSteve]

Based on how hard it was for Jordan to raise Pippen to a meager 16 ppg, it's understandable why Jordan didn't want to start over building someone else

It's amusing because MJ was was the opposite of spoiled only knew how to work hard for everything, so he didn't realize that some teammates are good right away and 16 ppg is pretty meager help for a multiple-time champion..

This meager production/efficiency from Pippen forced MJ to achieve goat stats to win - but MJ liked it this way - if Pippen was an elite 1st option or FMVP sidekick like everyone else enjoyed, Jordan would've 3-peated right away and retired/got bored sooner.

A side kick who is capable of taking his own team to 50+ wins without you year in, year out is merger help?

What was Jordan's best record with a comparable cast to what Pippen had on a 45 win pace in 1995?

[3ba11]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-27-2021/W44XtX.gif



A side kick who is capable of taking his own team to 50+ wins without you year in, year out is merger help?

What was Jordan's best record with a comparable cast to what Pippen had on a 45 win pace in 1995?


94' Pippen gained a 2nd Horace Grant in Kukoc and had a 3-peat system - yet he barely had a .500 ballclub in 95' before MJ returned and therefore he destroyed the Bulls' dynasty in less than 2 years

So Pippen was a nightmare at 1st option including a vomit of incessant choke-jobs against Jordan's bitch (Ewing) in the 2nd Round (see gif above)

If Pippen is your best scorer, your team simply can't be very good... Pippen is best at 3rd or 4th option, assuming MJ isn't there to carry his shitty efficiency at 2nd option (aka can't handle the 2nd option load)

[AussieSteve]

Pippen gained a 2nd Horace Grant in Kukoc and had a 3-peat system - yet he barely had a .500 ballclub in 95' before MJ returned and therefore he destroyed the Bulls' dynasty in less than 2 years

Pippen was a nightmare at 1st option including a vomit of choking against Jordan's bitch (Ewing) in the 2nd Round.

So what was Jordan's best record with a cast comparable to BJ, Kukoc, Harper, Perdue, Myers and Krystkowiak?

[3ba11]

So what was Jordan's best record with a cast comparable to BJ, Kukoc, Harper, Perdue, Myers and Krystkowiak?


Pippen's 21.7 on 40% nearly beat Ewing, and Ewing's 18 on 35% nearly beat Hakeem, so Jordan's floor performance (27 on 42%) destroys Hakeem and wins the title - people don't realize that Kukoc is better offensive help than Bricken Pippen, and the Bulls system had a great defense regardless, so MJ had more than enough to win in 94', especially with Grant/BJ entering their prime as experienced 3-peat vets... So Pippen was completely unecessary to win the 94' title if if MJ is there.

[AussieSteve]

Pippen's 21.7 on 40% nearly beat Ewing, and Ewing's 18 on 35% nearly beat Hakeem, so Jordan's floor performance (27 on 42%) destroys Hakeem and wins the title - people don't realize that Kukoc is better offensive help than Bricken Pippen, and the Bulls system had a great defense regardless, so MJ had more than enough to win in 94', especially with Grant/BJ entering their prime as experienced 3-peat vets... So Pippen was completely unecessary to win the 94' title if if MJ is there.

Why do you continually refuse to answer this question?

What was Jordan's best record with a cast comparable to BJ, Kukoc, Harper, Perdue, Myers and Krystkowiak?

[3ba11]

Why do you continually refuse to answer this question?

What was Jordan's best record with a cast comparable to BJ, Kukoc, Harper, Perdue, Myers and Krystkowiak?


depends on the conference.. if it's the 09' East, then maybe 70 wins

if it's the 94' East, then 65...

Kukoc replacing Pippen with an improved Grant/BJ in 94' would be the best cast Jordan ever had.

[AussieSteve]

depends on the conference.. if it's the 09' East, then maybe 70 wins

if it's the 94' East, then 65...

Kukoc replacing Pippen with an improved Grant/BJ in 94' would be the best cast Jordan ever had.

No. Not "what do you think he'd win with that cast?"... What was the best record he actually achieved with a comparable cast?

[3ba11]

No. Not "what do you think he'd win with that cast?"... What was his best record with a comparable cast?


72 wins

[AussieSteve]

72 wins

The debate is Pippen's impact vs Jordan's impact. Pick one of Jordan's teams that didn't have Pippen on it, so we can remove Pippen's impact

[3ba11]

The debate is Pippen's impact vs Jordan's impact. Pick one of Jordan's teams that didn't have Pippen on it, so we can remove Pippen's impact


Okay here's real analysis:

Jordan as 30-12 without Pippen from 91-98', including 24-11 when Pippen got surgery during the season in 98'.

However, those casts didn't have anyone like Kukoc, who was like a 2nd Horace Grant-caliber player... Jordan + 2 Horace's = better than 30-12, so let's conservatively add 5 wins to that pace, which is 64 games.

Btw, the way Pippen played in many series was like a defensive role player, so the majority of SF's would be equal or better, assuming no material change in team defense.. For example, Pippen averaged 15.7 on 34% in the 96' Finals and had 20 series of 16 on 43% or worse for his career.

[nayte]

The reasoning in this thread is about as good as your barkley thread. And I will say it again there is 100 reasons why pip is a great player in his own right without having to mention jordan

[3ba11]

The reasoning in this thread is about as good as your barkley thread. And I will say it again there is 100 reasons why pip is a great player in his own right without having to mention jordan


55 wins and 2nd round loss is a top 1000 peak and therefore isn't an argument for anyone being an all-time player.

Then after getting exposed in the 94' playoffs and the 3-peat luster gone, pippen had a .500 ballclub before MJ came back - so he destroyed a dynasty in less than 2 years with playoff chokes and inabilty to win without the 3-peat mystique and surprise factor.

[AussieSteve]

Okay here's real analysis:

Jordan as 30-12 without Pippen from 91-98', including 24-11 when Pippen got surgery during the season in 98'.

However, those casts didn't have anyone like Kukoc, who was like a 2nd Horace Grant-caliber player... Jordan + 2 Horace's = better than 30-12, so let's conservatively add 5 wins to that pace, which is 64 games.

Btw, the way Pippen played in many series was like a defensive role player, so the majority of SF's would be equal or better, assuming no material change in team defense.. For example, Pippen averaged 15.7 on 34% in the 96' Finals and had 20 series of 16 on 43% or worse for his career.


So in other words, you are not willing to assess Pippen's 1995 BJ-Kukoc-Perdue-Myers-Harper-Krystkowiak cast in relation to of any of Jordan's non-Pippen casts?

I guess this is because you know that in doing so you'll back yourself into a corner?

[AussieSteve]

The reasoning in this thread is about as good as your barkley thread. And I will say it again there is 100 reasons why pip is a great player in his own right without having to mention jordan

3ball likes to make idiotic posts and then abandon a thread once his posts are rightfully revealed as being idiotic, rather than contend with the rebuttal. Sometimes the only way to continue the dialogue with him is to start a new thread.

Its just a game really. Everyone, including 3ball, knows that what he is saying is ridiculous. The challenge is to see if you can get him to inadvertently admit that he knows its ridiculous. So far I'm not winning that game, because he just changes the topic when challenged, or abandons the thread. Lockdowns in Melbourne have got me pretty bored, what can I say.

[nayte]

I'm not ever gonna get into it with you chief. Have at it tho

[3ba11]

So in other words, you are not willing to assess Pippen's 1995 BJ-Kukoc-Perdue-Myers-Harper-Krystkowiak cast in relation to of any of Jordan's non-Pippen casts?

I guess this is because you know that in doing so you'll back yourself into a corner?


Oh, I misread the original post...

the cast you mentioned - BJ/Kukoc/Perdue/Harper/Myers - that's the same players as the 98' cast without Pippen (24-11 or 57-win pace), except it's better due to the addition of peak BJ and lower age of all players vs 98', so I'll say 60 wins.

[nayte]

3ball likes to make idiotic posts and then abandon a thread once his posts are rightfully revealed as being idiotic, rather than contend with the rebuttal. Sometimes the only way to continue the dialogue with him is to start a new thread.

Its just a game really. Everyone, including 3ball, knows that what he is saying is ridiculous. The challenge is to see if you can get him to inadvertently admit that he knows its ridiculous. So far I'm not winning that game, because he just changes the topic when challenged, or abandons the thread. Lockdowns in Melbourne have got me pretty bored, what can I say.

Ha fair enough we don't have that problem in Brisbane.
I get what you are saying. I prefer the ignore method to him but all good. I get what u mean.

[Phoenix]

OP created a thread specifically for 3nut to infiltrate with his usual cut/paste ramblings. A day in the life of ISH...

[Axe]

The reasoning in this thread is about as good as your barkley thread. And I will say it again there is 100 reasons why pip is a great player in his own right without having to mention jordan
:cheers:

Funny how some people here think he is overrated when it's the other way around rofl. Plus, he ain't someone who is cocky or a ballhog anyway so i don't get why'd they ridiculously diss him like that.

[tpols]

Jordan was serving 4 course 5 star meals while pippy poo was still in college.

Your reasoning is weak. '94 Bulls had two players make the all star team outside Pippen and got hammer fisted in the 2nd round by the Knicks. (1 shot away from down 0-3) So Ewing proved he was far better mano y mano.

The trail blazers were stacked with talent and Pippen literally averaged iguodala numbers with them.

In the only time they had a chance of winning, Pippen led a game 7 choke where his opponent overcame a FIFTEEN point deficit in the 4th quarter.

And he flamed out of Houston after Chicago. Most overrated player of all time.

MJ would've won in more dominant fashion with Stockton, Kemp, Reggie, Penny, Hill, Worthy, Clyde, Ewing, Payton, etc.

[Axe]

The bulls have won six rings with the iconic mj/scottie duo yet this guy is still not satisfied at all just because his ppg numbers weren't spectacular. Poor thurston. :ohwell:

[Gohan]

Jordan was serving 4 course 5 star meals while pippy poo was still in college.

Your reasoning is weak. '94 Bulls had two players make the all star team outside Pippen and got hammer fisted in the 2nd round by the Knicks. (1 shot away from down 0-3) So Ewing proved he was far better mano y mano.

The trail blazers were stacked with talent and Pippen literally averaged iguodala numbers with them.

In the only time they had a chance of winning, Pippen led a game 7 choke where his opponent overcame a FIFTEEN point deficit in the 4th quarter.

And he flamed out of Houston after Chicago. Most overrated player of all time.

MJ would've won in more dominant fashion with Stockton, Kemp, Reggie, Penny, Hill, Worthy, Clyde, Ewing, Payton, etc.

I agree pippen has become byfar the most overrated player of all time