The greatest ever cannot need to ring-chase

[3ba11]

And that's what people don't understand - Lebron's skillset needs to ring chase and can't win organically

Specifically, his frontcourt ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team-hopping)

Otoh, Jordan's scoring was partially-assisted (he was an assist target), which elevates teammate role and allowed young players to grow (organic winning)

Lebron's ball-dominance also prevents the best strategy (ball movement), which further hampers chemistry development and an effective team, so he must win via talent, aka teaming up

[Kblaze8855]

Browns and chiefs game on if you need something to do. No Odell but still.

[RRR3]

Hiding behind MJ yet again. Terrified to actually compare Kobe and Bron. Yikes

[Norcaliblunt]

In 99 Jordan should’ve left Chicago to ring chase somewhere like Portland or Sacramento. Denying Duncan, Shaq, and Kobe their first chips. That would’ve cemented his legacy.b

[Norcaliblunt]

Could’ve pulled a Tom Brady before Tom Brady.

[3ba11]

Could’ve pulled a Tom Brady before Tom Brady.


Can't compare #1 options in basketball that carry their teams, to quarterbacks that GET carried by the defense, the O-line, the running game, everyone

Of course, Lebron actually can't carry the scoring load against good teams and needs a 1b that scores nearly as much as him... Lebron can't carry the scoring load against good teams because he can't handle the additional jumpshooting required and therefore shoots poorly at carry-job volume.. His ball-dominance is also more extensive at high volume which reduces teammates and brand more than normal, therefore causing losses at high scoring levels - Lebron simply can't win with high scoring/carry-jobs against good teams

[3ba11]

Imagine if Lebron's Cavs drafted Bosh - Lebron would turn him into spot-up shooter and the Cavs would be nothing

Otoh, Jordans off-ball game would put the ball in Bosh's hands and be a goat assist target for Bosh, while taking attention away from Bosh as well - so Bosh would explode next to Jordan. And Jordan wouldn't have to wait 4 years for Bosh like Pippen - MJ/Bosh could start 3-peating right away from 89-91'

[RRR3]

16-6

[Norcaliblunt]

Can't compare #1 options in basketball that carry their teams, to quarterbacks that GET carried by the defense, the O-line, the running game, everyone

Yeah it still would’ve been cool for him to switch conferences/teams, win the chip, and rub it in Jerry Krause’s face Tom Brady to Billy Belichick style.

Also I think Jordan could have led one of those Western Conference teams not named SA or LA to a championship. Imagine if he would’ve went to Utah a team he beat hella times and gave them a chip? It would be legendary. Or say he goes to Houston or Portland instead of Pippen? I think he would’ve brought those teams a title. That Portland team would have been nuts with an old Jordan.

[Gohan]

Hiding behind MJ yet again. Terrified to actually compare Kobe and Bron. Yikes

Lebron needs to surpass iverson before he starts worrying about kobe

[Norcaliblunt]

Yo what if old Jordan teamed up with KG? Shit.

[Norcaliblunt]

Jordan should have ring chased the last 5 years of his career. Each year with a different team while denying Duncan, Kobe, and Shaq titles.

99 Utah
2000 Portland
2001 Philadelphia
2002 Sacramento
2003 Dallas
2004 Minnesota

Al those teams win those years if you insert Jordan.

[3ba11]

16-6


We all know Bron-ball is a regular season offense that loses as the favorite to Dwight and Dirk's 1-star teams

Yet you think he would've beaten Kobe in the Playoffs when he can't beat Dwight and Dirk around the same time as the favorite? Have you gone mad?

[MadDog]

We all know Bron-ball is a regular season offense that loses as the favorite to Dwight and Dirk's 1-star teams

Yet you think he would've beaten Kobe in the Playoffs when he can't beat Dwight and Dirk around the same time as the favorite? Have you gone mad?

We'll never know, but I would have liked to watch those two in a finals. Remember those puppet commercials?

[3ba11]

We'll never know, but I would have liked to watch those two in a finals. Remember those puppet commercials?


Yeah they need to run those again

[MadDog]

Yeah they need to run those again

As far as ring count, Kobe still has bragging rights lol. Regarding your topic here. Why do you give LeBron crap for "chasing rings" when managers do the same thing. I don't condone stacking the deck like KD, for example. But choosing where you play is better than an owner dictating your career.

[Mauzah]

Jordan should have ring chased the last 5 years of his career. Each year with a different team while denying Duncan, Kobe, and Shaq titles.

99 Utah
2000 Portland
2001 Philadelphia
2002 Sacramento
2003 Dallas
2004 Minnesota

Al those teams win those years if you insert Jordan.

I think it would have been better as an F U to Krause/Reinsdorf.

Breaking up that team was a massive blunder. Great for the legacy but the Bulls players wanted to run it back and they earned that right.

[RRR3]

As far as ring count, Kobe still has bragging rights lol. Regarding your topic here. Why do you give LeBron crap for "chasing rings" when managers do the same thing. I don't condone stacking the deck like KD, for example. But choosing where you play is better than an owner dictating your career.
Why are we counting 2002? Confirmed as rigged. Literally. Kobe has 4rings.

[GrayGoat]

LeBron is 16-6 vs Kobe

[3ba11]

As far as ring count, Kobe still has bragging rights lol. Regarding your topic here. Why do you give LeBron crap for "chasing rings" when managers do the same thing. I don't condone stacking the deck like KD, for example. But choosing where you play is better than an owner dictating your career.


Lebron was learning how to win.

He really was.

He already knew how to elevate the lesser role players like Delonte, Boobie or Pavlovic.. But he was still figuring out how to fit with decorated players, like Hughes, Jamison, Shaq, Zydrunas or Mo..

So Lebron should've stayed because he'd almost figured it out - the Cavs were already the league favorite for 2 straight years and would've added another good player in 2011 just like 09' and 10'.. They also would've lucked out by facing the 1-star Mavs in the Finals, and the Cavs would've had the reputed defense and organic chemistry to beat them.

So ultimately, Lebron only learned to team-hop and never learned to WIN (organic).. This requires figuring out how to fit with teammates so everyone is playing near capacity... He was close, but gave up early and ceded the 1-star, organic ring to Dirk

[GrayGoat]

LeBron is 16-6 vs Kobe

Quoted for historical references

[3ba11]

66-16 (still lost to Dwight)

"not 6, not 7" (still lost to Dirk)





fixed

[SaintzFury13]

And that's what people don't understand - Lebron's skillset needs to ring chase and can't win organically

Specifically, his frontcourt ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team-hopping)

Otoh, Jordan's scoring was partially-assisted (he was an assist target), which elevates teammate role and allowed young players to grow (organic winning)

Lebron's ball-dominance also prevents the best strategy (ball movement), which further hampers chemistry development and an effective team, so he must win via talent, aka teaming up

Jordan never would have won without Pippen.

Stop pretending LeBron never would have won organically. If Cleveland didn't let Carlos Boozer walk away LeBron probably would have been a two time champion by the time 2010 rolled around the corner.

Also, going by your logic MJ didn't win organically, because he didn't win his first championship until the team acquired Horace Grant.

[Mauzah]

Jordan never would have won without Pippen.

Stop pretending LeBron never would have won organically. If Cleveland didn't let Carlos Boozer walk away LeBron probably would have been a two time champion by the time 2010 rolled around the corner.

Also, going by your logic MJ didn't win organically, because he didn't win his first championship until the team acquired Horace Grant.

You like the rest of us have no idea what Jordan would and the Bulls would look like if you replaced Pippen with some other star player.

What if that replacement was Shawn Kemp or David Robinson? Zero chance eh. The Jordan/Pip combo was obviously a successful tandem, who's to stay pairing Jordan with an inside threat instead of Pip doesn't unlock even more to Jordans game?

Its a complete unknown either way but to act as if Pippen was the only player he could have won with is asinine.

[Axe]

2/7

[SaintzFury13]

You like the rest of us have no idea what Jordan would and the Bulls would look like if you replaced Pippen with some other star player.

What if that replacement was Shawn Kemp or David Robinson? Zero chance eh. The Jordan/Pip combo was obviously a successful tandem, who's to stay pairing Jordan with an inside threat instead of Pip doesn't unlock even more to Jordans game?

Its a complete unknown either way but to act as if Pippen was the only player he could have won with is asinine.

When did I say Pippen was the only player Jordan ever would have won with? Where do I state this? All I said was he wouldn't have win without Pippen. Where am I stating that it HAD to be Pippen and nobody else?

[RRR3]

fixed
LeBron embarrassed your hero head to head and doubled his FMVP count. Tell us where it hurts.

[Mauzah]

When did I say Pippen was the only player Jordan ever would have won with? Where do I state this? All I said was he wouldn't have win without Pippen. Where am I stating that it HAD to be Pippen and nobody else?

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FO4IntqG DGeFzi%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1

How else is he supposed to win if it isn't somebody else? Is he playing 4 on 5?

[Manny98]

3ball got em on a string :oldlol:

[MadDog]

Why are we counting 2002? Confirmed as rigged. Literally. Kobe has 4rings.

Unless Tim Donaghy magically officiated that series, I'm not going to call it rigged. He "alleges" the 2002 and the 2006 finals were screwjobs - but he was also trying to sell a book. Regardless I'm not going to claim something I probably wouldn't win in court. I bet Mark Cuban would entertain you though.

[SaintzFury13]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FO4IntqG DGeFzi%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1

How else is he supposed to win if it isn't somebody else? Is he playing 4 on 5?

Stop pretending to be an idiot. All I stated is that Jordan never won without Pippen. I mentioned that to point out why pretending MJ's playstyle wasn't a detriment but LeBron's was is idiotic. It's ignoring both history and context. We have enough retards on this site as is. It doesn't need your help.

[MadDog]

Lebron was learning how to win.

He really was.

He already knew how to elevate the lesser role players like Delonte, Boobie or Pavlovic.. But he was still figuring out how to fit with decorated players, like Hughes, Jamison, Shaq, Zydrunas or Mo..

So Lebron should've stayed because he'd almost figured it out - the Cavs were already the league favorite for 2 straight years and would've added another good player in 2011 just like 09' and 10'.. They also would've lucked out by facing the 1-star Mavs in the Finals, and the Cavs would've had the reputed defense and organic chemistry to beat them.

So ultimately, Lebron only learned to team-hop and never learned to WIN (organic).. This requires figuring out how to fit with teammates so everyone is playing near capacity... He was close, but gave up early and ceded the 1-star, organic ring to Dirk

I get all that, and fully understand why you don't like collusion\deck stacking. I'm one of those people too - but that doesn't answer my question. Why are you OK with managers and owners plotting your destination, but not with a player wanting to empower themself? LeBron wasn't forming a superteam in Los Angeles, but judging your post, you fault him for not winning "organically" lol

[Mauzah]

Jordan never would have won without Pippen.


Stop pretending to be an idiot. All I stated is that Jordan never won without Pippen. I mentioned that to point out why pretending MJ's playstyle wasn't a detriment but LeBron's was is idiotic. It's ignoring both history and context. We have enough retards on this site as is. It doesn't need your help.

These two statements mean two very different things. If you can't grasp this then maybe you're the idiot.

You can now either backtrack or say you mistyped your initial response. Go ahead. Which is it?

[SaintzFury13]

These two statements mean two very different things. If you can't grasp this then maybe you're the idiot.

You can now either backtrack or say you mistyped your initial response. Go ahead. Which is it?

Neither.

It wouldn't have mattered if I typed it out as "MJ never won without a superstar caliber player as his teammate". I don't need to type that out. I always state it that way and you are literally the only person here who misinterpreted it as such. I cannot help it if you are literally too stupid to understand something very simple.

[3ba11]

I get all that, and fully understand why you don't like collusion\deck stacking. I'm one of those people too - but that doesn't answer my question. Why are you OK with managers and owners plotting your destination, but not with a player wanting to empower themself? LeBron wasn't forming a superteam in Los Angeles, but judging your post, you fault him for not winning "organically" lol


Not everyone can form their own super-team

The sickening thing is that the media wants us to give Lebron props for forming a super-team and then making the Finals

But Dwight won East without super-team, so why should Lebron get props for winning WITH a super-team?.. since when is forming a super-team and making the Finals a demonstration of basketball ability?.. Why should that kind of Finals appearances further a goat case?

CONCLUSION: Lebron's Finals appearances mean nothing in the goat debate... Lebron's Finals appearances with super-teams < Jordan's appearances without

[MadDog]

Not everyone can form their own super-team

The sickening thing is that the media wants us to give Lebron props for forming a super-team and then making the Finals

But Dwight won East without super-team, so why should Lebron get props for winning WITH a super-team?.. since when is forming a super-team and making the Finals a demonstration of basketball ability?.. Why should that kind of Finals appearances further a goat case?

CONCLUSION: Lebron's Finals appearances mean nothing in the goat debate... Lebron's Finals appearances with super-teams < Jordan's appearances without

As did LeBron back in 2007. Unlike Dwight though, LeBron was also the best player on a championship team. On three and arguably FOUR of them (the Lakers were not a superteam). We both agree Jordan>LeBron so that's cool.

[TheCorporation]

Just like your idol Kobe you are chucking out low efficiency threads. Brick after brick just like 12be.

[Mauzah]

Neither.

It wouldn't have mattered if I typed it out as "MJ never won without a superstar caliber player as his teammate". I don't need to type that out. I always state it that way and you are literally the only person here who misinterpreted it as such. I cannot help it if you are literally too stupid to understand something very simple.

Nice try dummy, your garbage posts are as clear as day and I'm not misinterpreting shit. If you don't want to have an honest discourse when the information has already been presented regarding what you said that's on you.

"Well that's just how I say it"

Okay buddy I know what I read :roll:

https://i2.wp.com/media2.giphy.com/media/Ukp6YscEHhf6E/giphy.gif

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

And that's what people don't understand - Lebron's skillset needs to ring chase and can't win organically

Specifically, his frontcourt ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team-hopping)

Otoh, Jordan's scoring was partially-assisted (he was an assist target), which elevates teammate role and allowed young players to grow (organic winning)

Lebron's ball-dominance also prevents the best strategy (ball movement), which further hampers chemistry development and an effective team, so he must win via talent, aka teaming up


Can't compare #1 options in basketball that carry their teams, to quarterbacks that GET carried by the defense, the O-line, the running game, everyone

Of course, Lebron actually can't carry the scoring load against good teams and needs a 1b that scores nearly as much as him... Lebron can't carry the scoring load against good teams because he can't handle the additional jumpshooting required and therefore shoots poorly at carry-job volume.. His ball-dominance is also more extensive at high volume which reduces teammates and brand more than normal, therefore causing losses at high scoring levels - Lebron simply can't win with high scoring/carry-jobs against good teams


Lebron was learning how to win.

He really was.

He already knew how to elevate the lesser role players like Delonte, Boobie or Pavlovic.. But he was still figuring out how to fit with decorated players, like Hughes, Jamison, Shaq, Zydrunas or Mo..

So Lebron should've stayed because he'd almost figured it out - the Cavs were already the league favorite for 2 straight years and would've added another good player in 2011 just like 09' and 10'.. They also would've lucked out by facing the 1-star Mavs in the Finals, and the Cavs would've had the reputed defense and organic chemistry to beat them.

So ultimately, Lebron only learned to team-hop and never learned to WIN (organic).. This requires figuring out how to fit with teammates so everyone is playing near capacity... He was close, but gave up early and ceded the 1-star, organic ring to Dirk


Not everyone can form their own super-team

The sickening thing is that the media wants us to give Lebron props for forming a super-team and then making the Finals

But Dwight won East without super-team, so why should Lebron get props for winning WITH a super-team?.. since when is forming a super-team and making the Finals a demonstration of basketball ability?.. Why should that kind of Finals appearances further a goat case?

CONCLUSION: Lebron's Finals appearances mean nothing in the goat debate... Lebron's Finals appearances with super-teams < Jordan's appearances without


https://giffiles.alphacoders.com/693/6937.gif

Easy there, turbo. Go on and tell us a little more about Kobe.

[RRR3]

Easy there, turbo. Go on and tell us a little more about Kobe.
Be prepared for more retreating to his Jordan pacifier. Kobe just doesn’t stack up and he knows it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Be prepared for more retreating to his Jordan pacifier. Kobe just doesn’t stack up and he knows it.

His MJ chain got snatched.

Homie's gotta put his own work in around here. And it starts with Kobe. Just know that if 3ball doesn't mention Shaq, he'll have to start over. :lol

[RRR3]

His MJ chain got snatched.

Homie's gotta put his own work in around here. And it starts with Kobe. Just know that if 3ball doesn't mention Shaq, he'll have to start over. :lol
The thought of having to actually try hard has him shook. It’s easy with MJ. Kobe? Lol not if the goal is making LeBron look bad.

[SaintzFury13]

Nice try dummy, your garbage posts are as clear as day and I'm not misinterpreting shit. If you don't want to have an honest discourse when the information has already been presented regarding what you said that's on you.

"Well that's just how I say it"

Okay buddy I know what I read :roll:

https://i2.wp.com/media2.giphy.com/media/Ukp6YscEHhf6E/giphy.gif

So I guess all my past conversations literally don't matter because you're the first person who is so stupid that they misinterpreted something so simple to comprehend. I am sorry your parents failed you in your life.

[GrayGoat]

16-6

[Mauzah]

So I guess all my past conversations literally don't matter because you're the first person who is so stupid that they misinterpreted something so simple to comprehend. I am sorry your parents failed you in your life.

You either have a poor understanding of the English language or this is your attempt at red herring type argument to save face.


Jordan never would have won without Pippen.


Stop pretending to be an idiot. All I stated is that Jordan never won without Pippen. I mentioned that to point out why pretending MJ's playstyle wasn't a detriment but LeBron's was is idiotic. It's ignoring both history and context. We have enough retards on this site as is. It doesn't need your help.

Two different things stupid. Do you want me to draw you a picture?

[SaintzFury13]

You either have a poor understanding of the English language or this is your attempt at red herring type argument to save face.





Two different things stupid. Do you want me to draw you a picture?

At this point I'm convinced you don't even know how to use a pen needed to draw. Again, this is how I have always worded it on this site. This is a legitimate fact. No one looks at a statement like that and interprets it as "it could only be Pippen and literally no one else". The fact that I needed to explain something so incredibly simple to you when even 3ball could understand it is a testament to how dumb you are.

Imagine being dumber than 3ball.

Off to the ignore list you go. I'm not going to continue wasting my time on a illiterate retard who is somehow stupider than 3ball.

[Sportal]

If the Bulls front office are incompetent like the Cavs, Jordan leaves. Just like Kobe would've left. These are players that HAVE to win, they will sacrifice anything to win, except their spotlight.

[Mauzah]

At this point I'm convinced you don't even know how to use a pen needed to draw. Again, this is how I have always worded it on this site. This is a legitimate fact. No one looks at a statement like that and interprets it as "it could only be Pippen and literally no one else". The fact that I needed to explain something so incredibly simple to you when even 3ball could understand it is a testament to how dumb you are.

Imagine being dumber than 3ball.

Off to the ignore list you go. I'm not going to continue wasting my time on a illiterate retard who is somehow stupider than 3ball.

Imagine being a coward liar to save face.

Saying "Jordan would never win without Pippen" is exactly saying "it could only be Pippen and literally no one else".

Your lack of comprehension while carelessly throwing the word retard around like an internet tough guy is going to give some pleb like yourself the idea to pack your mothers uterus full of glass and kick her in the groin to prevent future Skidsfury13s from happening. Congrats, dumbass.

[outofstomach]

These two statements mean two very different things. If you can't grasp this then maybe you're the idiot.

You can now either backtrack or say you mistyped your initial response. Go ahead. Which is it?that guy is honestly a ****ing moron :lol i have no idea why he’s allowed on this site, literally a lebron troll

[outofstomach]

You either have a poor understanding of the English language or this is your attempt at red herring type argument to save face.





Two different things stupid. Do you want me to draw you a picture?:lol :applause:

[SATAN]

Michael Jordan benefited from playing with the best player ever (Dennis Rodman..Phil Jackson confirmed this) and multiple hall of famers, all stars and absolute sniper shooters (considering the era (lmao)). He tried to force signings but was not actually important enough. They didn't listen to him. Ultimately, surprised he wasn't traded for Drexler.

[SaintzFury13]

that guy is honestly a ****ing moron :lol i have no idea why he’s allowed on this site, literally a lebron troll

A LeBron troll who just made a thread explaining that LeBron's 2011 Finals series performance is the worst all time for a Superstar player.

We have enough morons in this thread as is, it doesn't need your help.

[000]

Is this seriously about Lebron??? Weird thread.
Lebron didnt need to leave his teams. He just did it to be fair to the rest of the league. Imagine if his teams had long-term organic chemistry too, sheesh.

[SaintzFury13]

Is this seriously about Lebron??? Weird thread.
Lebron didnt need to leave his teams. He just did it to be fair to the rest of the league. Imagine if his teams had long-term organic chemistry too, sheesh.

It's a 3ball thread.

It's always going to have something to do with LeBron in some form or fashion, even if he's not being mentioned once.

[expansionera]

And that's what people don't understand - Lebron's skillset needs to ring chase and can't win organically

Specifically, his frontcourt ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team-hopping)

Otoh, Jordan's scoring was partially-assisted (he was an assist target), which elevates teammate role and allowed young players to grow (organic winning)

Lebron's ball-dominance also prevents the best strategy (ball movement), which further hampers chemistry development and an effective team, so he must win via talent, aka teaming up

Didnt Pierce, Allen and KG team up first or does that not count? Kobe was begging for a stacked team, the Lakers attempted to get both prime CP3 and Dwight to play next to Kobe. Lebron teamed up with Bosh and Wade to match opponents in the arms race Thats fought by every team each year in free agency.

Why penalize him for playing with somewhat talented teams when his contemporaries (Spurs, Warriors) were STACKED with 3-4 Hall of Famers each

[SaintzFury13]

Didnt Pierce, Allen and KG team up first or does that not count? Kobe was begging for a stacked team, the Lakers attempted to get both prime CP3 and Dwight to play next to Kobe. Lebron teamed up with Bosh and Wade to match opponents in the arms race Thats fought by every team each year in free agency.

Why penalize him for playing with somewhat talented teams when his contemporaries (Spurs, Warriors) were STACKED with 3-4 Hall of Famers each

This should be an easy thing to understand, but retards like outofstomach apparently don't get it. You're expecting too much out of the majority of the people on this site.

Although with that said, it does need to be mentioned that Pierce, Allen and Garnett technically don't count because that happened through trades and one of them (Garnett) didn't even want to go in the first place. But with that said, this is definitely the best supporting cast a big three ever had before (the 2008 Celtics).