Iverson with pippen would have won a title in 94

[Gohan]

Factz

[SouBeachTalents]

Iverson 8peats with the Bulls

[3ba11]

Factz


But Iverson doesn't win the 1989 1st Round (historic upset), so the Bulls rebuild in 89' instead of 3-peating with that cast.

So Iverson doesn't build Pippen like MJ did, and therefore can't build the dynasty that MJ.did..

It's intuitive that a budding ball-handler like Pippen was lucky to play alongside an assist target like MJ (off-ball), rather than a ball-dominator like Iverson..

[tpols]

Its an extremely astute point to make that Iversons lack of discipline (practice???) and low IQ style of play would've meant an Iverson + Pippen combo would've won almost nothing in the 90s. Pippens defensive teeth were cut on MJs ruthlessness in practice and preparation. With Iverson that simply doesn't exist.

'91 was the only year Pippen played like a true star in the playoffs, and with James Worthy getting hurt in the Finals they might have won that ring. They get waxed in absolutely every other year no contest though. They still lose to the Knicks or Rockets in 1994. Bulls were 1 shot away from Toni Kukoc from being down 0-3.

[ShawkFactory]

Its an extremely astute point to make that Iversons lack of discipline (practice???) and low IQ style of play would've meant an Iverson + Pippen combo would've won almost nothing in the 90s. Pippens defensive teeth were cut on MJs ruthlessness in practice and preparation. With Iverson that simply doesn't exist.

'91 was the only year Pippen played like a true star in the playoffs, and with James Worthy getting hurt in the Finals they might have won that ring. They get waxed in absolutely every other year no contest though. They still lose to the Knicks or Rockets in 1994. Bulls were 1 shot away from Toni Kukoc from being down 0-3.

Game was tied when he made that.

[3ba11]

Its an extremely astute point to make that Iversons lack of discipline (practice???) and low IQ style of play would've meant an Iverson + Pippen combo would've won almost nothing in the 90s. Pippens defensive teeth were cut on MJs ruthlessness in practice and preparation. With Iverson that simply doesn't exist.

'91 was the only year Pippen played like a true star in the playoffs, and with James Worthy getting hurt in the Finals they might have won that ring. They get waxed in absolutely every other year no contest though. They still lose to the Knicks or Rockets in 1994. Bulls were 1 shot away from Toni Kukoc from being down 0-3.


And no one wins that 1989 1st Round except MJ

Even if someone else could've won the series, it's maybe 1 or 2 other guys in history, not Iverson

That series and run turned the Bulls from rebuild mode to title contender - they went from another 1st Round exit (this time in MJ's prime) to title contender

Anyone else loses that series and has to rebuild, so the 90's Bulls don't exist.. And Pippen can't develop alongside another ball-dominator like Iverson - Harden had to leave Westbrook to blossom and Harden was good right away, not a project like Pippen was

[MadDog]

You're replacing a CBA player in Myers with A HOFer and one of the best shooting guards ever. Not really saying much. The 94 Bulls would win a title, but if you were to replace Jordan with Iverson for most of the 90s, there's no way he replicates Michael Jordan's success. Iverson's playmaking nor defense were up to par. His inefficient scoring would've also cost the Bulls titles.

[Gohan]

Lol im a huge jordan fan i was just speaking specifically for 94 though when jordan retired. I think they win the title with iverson. Tpols and 3ball are just going off the deep end with it lol

[tpols]

Lol im a huge jordan fan i was just speaking specifically for 94 though when jordan retired. I think they win the title with iverson. Tpols and 3ball are just going off the deep end with it lol

You have to look at the butterfly effect though bro. You can't just ignore the come up. 1994 Bulls had championship swagger coming off a 3peat which is why Horace grant and even bj Armstrong made the All Star team. You're placing Iverson in the best situation possible without accounting for the fact the team would've never been as mentally and physically hardened without what MJ provided for them beforehand.

The Bulls don't have dynasty pedigree in 1994 if they lose in 1992 and 1993, which they undoubtedly would have with Iverson in MJs place.

[Phoenix]

Game was tied when he made that.

He wasn't watching basketball back then.

[ShawkFactory]

You have to look at the butterfly effect though bro. You can't just ignore the come up. 1994 Bulls had championship swagger coming off a 3peat which is why Horace grant and even bj Armstrong made the All Star team. You're placing Iverson in the best situation possible without accounting for the fact the team would've never been as mentally and physically hardened without what MJ provided for them beforehand.

The Bulls don't have dynasty pedigree in 1994 if they lose in 1992 and 1993, which they undoubtedly would have with Iverson in MJs place.

Really?

They made the all star team because a) their numbers increased without Jordan taking roughly a third of the teams shots and b) the team didn't see much of any of dropoff despite Jordan retiring. They were seen as a big reason why, and were voted into the ASG accordingly.

[Phoenix]

And no one wins that 1989 1st Round except MJ

Even if someone else could've won the series, it's maybe 1 or 2 other guys in history, not Iverson

That series and run turned the Bulls from rebuild mode to title contender - they went from another 1st Round exit (this time in MJ's prime) to title contender

Anyone else loses that series and has to rebuild, so the 90's Bulls don't exist.. And Pippen can't develop alongside another ball-dominator like Iverson - Harden had to leave Westbrook to blossom and Harden was good right away, not a project like Pippen was

Why would they rebuild in 89? Let's say Iverson comes into the league in 84( like MJ) and the same course of events happen that leads to them getting Pippen and Grant. You're trying to say that if they lose in 89 to the Cavs, with a 26 year old Iverson and two 23 year old sophomore year players....that Bulls management says 'ahhh fukk it, this ain't gonna work'. Chicago didn't break it up in 1990 after losing to Detroit 3 years in a row, so why would losing to the Cavs with Iverson as an underdog a year earlier cause a break-up?


Don't ever be a GM.

[tpols]

Really?

the team didn't see much of any of dropoff despite Jordan retiring.

They didn't see any drop off after MJ retired? They got wiped in the 2nd round after being a 3peat champion.

You clowns need to stop talking basketball. :oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

They didn't see any drop off after MJ retired? They got wiped in the 2nd round after being a 3peat champion.

You clowns need to stop talking basketball. :oldlol:

We're talking about their all star appearances, dork. If I'm not mistaken, the all star game occurred before the playoffs.

They were actually BETTER at the break in 94, record-wise, than in 93. So...actually NO dropoff

[SouBeachTalents]

They didn't see any drop off after MJ retired? They got wiped in the 2nd round after being a 3peat champion.

You clowns need to stop talking basketball. :oldlol:
That's still by FAR the best season a teams had after losing an ATG in his prime. The vast majority of teams fall off a cliff afterword.

[Airupthere]

We're talking about their all star appearances, dork. If I'm not mistaken, the all star game occurred before the playoffs.

They were actually BETTER at the break in 94, record-wise, than in 93. So...actually NO dropoff

Lol why should before the asg be the cutoff? The 3peat team lost in the second round and didnt win the chip. That is a dropoff.

[ShawkFactory]

Lol why should before the asg be the cutoff? The 3peat team lost in the second round and didnt win the chip. That is a dropoff.

Because the discussion was about the fvcking all star game. Jesus Christ :lol

[tpols]

Because the discussion was about the fvcking all star game. Jesus Christ :lol

Dumbass you said there was no drop off after Jordan left. The Bulls went from 3peat dynasty to 2nd round ass kicking. How do you validate your absurd claim?

[ShawkFactory]

Dumbass you said there was no drop off after Jordan left. The Bulls went from 3peat dynasty to 2nd round ass kicking. How do you validate your absurd claim?

Am I really going to have to spell out the argument you are currently engaged in?

Original claim:


1994 Bulls had championship swagger coming off a 3peat which is why Horace grant and even bj Armstrong made the All Star team

I responded:


They made the all star team because a) their numbers increased without Jordan taking roughly a third of the teams shots and b) the team didn't see much of any of dropoff despite Jordan retiring. They were seen as a big reason why, and were voted into the ASG accordingly.

They were 34-13 at the break. Second best record in basketball despite Jordan retiring..and better than they were at the break the previous year. That is the reason Horace and Armstrong made the ASG. What happened after the all star game has absolutely no relevance.

At the time of the ASG the Bulls hadn't seen much of a dropoff from the previous year. You're focusing on the wrong thing.

[tpols]

What happened after the all star game has absolutely no relevance.


Of course it does. :roll:

You claimed there's no drop off from Jordan yet half the regular season and the PLAYOFFS don't matter?

You're a certified clown lol.

[ShawkFactory]

Of course it does. :roll:

You claimed there's no drop off from Jordan yet half the regular season and the PLAYOFFS don't matter?

You're a certified clown lol.

Dude...are you fvcking serious? :lol

No, what happened after the all star break has no relevance as to why someone made the all star game. AT THE BREAK...they hadn't seen much of a dropoff. That is the reason Horace and Armstrong made the team.

Holy shit.

[ZenMaster]

Maybe, who knows.

[Norcaliblunt]

No they would not have.

[Axe]

Thurston getting bodybagged as usual...

[Reggie43]

Its not really a given since basketball is more about team chemistry than individual players. They could win it all but there is actually an equally good chance that they do a lot worse.

[expansionera]

Jamal Crawford likely wins three next to Pippen and makes the Hall of Fame going down as a top ten GOAT candidate, after all he led all six Bulls title teams in every statistical category aside from shooting.

Kobe, for instance, who played in an era where expansion teams weren’t regularly diluting the talent and players were allowed to play zone would likely win 10 rings with a wing of Pippen’s caliber

[Gohan]

Jamal Crawford likely wins three next to Pippen and makes the Hall of Fame going down as a top ten GOAT candidate, after all he led all six Bulls title teams in every statistical category aside from shooting.

Kobe, for instance, who played in an era where expansion teams weren’t regularly diluting the talent and players were allowed to play zone would likely win 10 rings with a wing of Pippen’s caliber


Ok john salley chill

[Axe]

Jamal Crawford likely wins three next to Pippen and makes the Hall of Fame going down as a top ten GOAT candidate, after all he led all six Bulls title teams in every statistical category aside from shooting.

Kobe, for instance, who played in an era where expansion teams weren’t regularly diluting the talent and players were allowed to play zone would likely win 10 rings with a wing of Pippen’s caliber
This poster sounds like roundball rock. :ohwell:

[3ba11]

Jamal Crawford likely wins three next to Pippen and makes the Hall of Fame going down as a top ten GOAT candidate, after all he led all six Bulls title teams in every statistical category aside from shooting.

Kobe, for instance, who played in an era where expansion teams weren’t regularly diluting the talent and players were allowed to play zone would likely win 10 rings with a wing of Pippen’s caliber


Expansion players were selected from a pool of existing players, so the league wasn't diluted with lesser talent - that's a common myth

And Pippen didn't lead every category for the 6 title runs.. Jordan's APG was basically the same (5.3 to 5.4), despite Jordan's higher shot volume giving him less available shots to assist on - so Jordan's assist percentage was always much higher than Pippen's (Jordan assisted 33% more often in the playoffs, and was therefore the passing leader by far).. '

And the other categories like steals and blocks were basically a tie - a couple tenths of a point.. So Jordan tied Pippen in everything, but doubled his scoring (carry-job), and got more DPOY votes every year... MJ was a "better-than-Durant-level-scorer" + top 5 DPOY defender every year, aka Giannis-level... That's the goat

[RRR3]

Iverson annihilated Kobe so badly they had to put Tyrone Lue on him in the 2001 finals.

[nayte]

As like a 19 yr old or so .nah not sure on that