Comparing Iggy & Pippen as 1st options in Playoffs against East champs (Dwight/Ewing)

[3ba11]

.
Iguodala 2009 Playoffs vs Dwight.... 21.5... 6.3... 6.7... 44.9%... lost in 6 (no kukoc miracle)

Pippen 1994 Playoffs vs Ewing......... 21.7... 7.7... 4.7... 40.5%... lost in 7 (kukoc miracle)


Pippen was an Iggy-level player that was simply lucky to play alongside the GOAT in a 2-star vs 2-star format (90's) - anyone wins alongisde the goat in that format

[SATAN]

:facepalm

[Axe]

1994 pippen averaged more ppg in the playoffs than kobe did in 2000.

[3ba11]

:facepalm


Not bad huh?... :applause:

there's SO MUCH evidence and facts out there that show Pippen wasn't that good

Ultimately, he was completely underserving of all-nba in 93' and 96-98' - simply inflated by the winning spotlight - low-producing playoff bum

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Another offshoot Pau thread. Its underhanded, but I can dig it.

[ShawkFactory]

Not bad huh?... :applause:

there's SO MUCH evidence and facts out there that show Pippen wasn't that good

Ultimately, he was completely underserving of all-nba in 93' and 96-98' - simply inflated by the winning spotlight - low-producing playoff bum

Unfortunately for you and your “evidence”, ALL of these games are on YouTube.

[3ba11]

Unfortunately for you and your “evidence”, ALL of these games are on YouTube.


Yes, so we can see Pippen's many chokes in slow-motion:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-27-2021/W44XtX.gif


Pippen's historic chokes:

1) "migrane" tricked off the 1st title in 1990

2) "sit out" game and kukoc miracle in 1994 ECSF

3) lost 17 pt lead in 4th quarter in 2000 without Mike (can't win w/out mike even with 17 pt lead in 4th)

4) "dumb foul" game where Pippen committed beginner foul on jumpshooter (shown above)

5) many missed shots & FT's to lose games, like Game 4 of 98' ECF (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1lCjwWJ1Ds&t=01h58m45s), which nearly cost the Bulls title

6) "The X-man Debacle" in 1992 where Pippen cost the Bulls many games in the ECSF and caused 7 game series

7) many more.. too many to list them all

[3ba11]

Another offshoot Pau thread. Its underhanded, but I can dig it.


I don't remember making any Pau threads recently

[RRR3]

I don't remember making any Pau threads recently
Yeah of course not you’re too afraid to reveal Kobe is your hero and the guy you rank as GOAT but everyone knows it anyways :lol


No running back to your MJ pacifier now argue for your actual favorite

[HylianNightmare]

Pippin is as good as a fmvp? Sounds about right

[Phoenix]

Ah yes, individual stats achieved 15 years apart in completely different defensive environments. Another 3nut classic.

[TheCorporation]

Kobe is top 15, get over it

[ShawkFactory]

Yes, so we can see Pippen's many chokes in slow-motion:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-27-2021/W44XtX.gif


Pippen's historic chokes:

1) "migrane" tricked off the 1st title in 1990

2) "sit out" game and kukoc miracle in 1994 ECSF

3) lost 17 pt lead in 4th quarter in 2000 without Mike (can't win w/out mike even with 17 pt lead in 4th)

4) "dumb foul" game where Pippen committed beginner foul on jumpshooter (shown above)

5) many missed shots & FT's to lose games, like Game 4 of 98' ECF (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1lCjwWJ1Ds&t=01h58m45s), which nearly cost the Bulls title

6) "The X-man Debacle" in 1992 where Pippen cost the Bulls many games in the ECSF and caused 7 game series

7) many more.. too many to list them all

More like you can see his contribution in a non elementary way. He’s all over the court, disrupting shots, flying to help, grabbing boards in traffic and starting breaks.

I recently watched most of game 5 of the series against the Knicks in 94 (the one with the foul), and he was the best player on the court. I have no idea what his or anyone else’s stat lines were. It was fun to watch him fly around into every play. No surprise he was voted 3rd in MVP that year.

[JohnMax]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q3FbvWSZQkY

[3ba11]

:facepalm:

[3ba11]

Pippen is all over the court, disrupting shots, flying to help, grabbing boards in traffic and starting breaks.





^^^^^ That's what every good hustle player does - you just listed a bunch of role player shit that you're lionizing into star shit as a double standard

Players with spotty scoring that play good defense are called defensive role players, period... So you aren't fooling anyone by pretending to be impressed with shit that everyone knows is role player shit...

If a guy does all the stuff you said but averages 15 on 34% or 17 on 41%, then he's a defensive role player... I'd say he's Draymond but that's an insult to Draymond... It's more like an entire 3-peat of Iggy's worst games...

Now if the guy averages 21.7 on 40% and many chokes like Pippen managed against the 94' Knicks, then he's a defensive role player forced into a 1st option role that he obviously can't handle.






I recently watched most of game 5 of the series against the Knicks in 94 (the one with the foul), and he was the best player on the court. I have no idea what his or anyone else’s stat lines were. It was fun to watch him fly around into every play.





If Pippen hadn't fouled a jumpshooter with the game on the line, then he would've been the best player FOR THAT GAME - he was otherwise destroyed by Ewing and played like dogshit, easily worse than Iggy against Dwight in the 09' Playoffs (stats in the OP).






No surprise he was voted 3rd in MVP that year





MVP award isn't a player ranking - a big part of the award is measuring which team and player surprised the most - Pippen got 3rd in MVP because he was 1st option on one of the biggest surprise teams ever..

And no one knows he was 3rd unless they look it up on bballref because he wasn't a real candidate, aka he was literally never talked about for the award during the season or time period...

This is standard - other guys that were 3rd like Blake or PG13 were barely talked too, but Pippen never was.. It's simply a situation where when the votes were tallied, the surprise factor registered 3rd..

[MadDog]

22ppg puts 94 Pippen at number 7 for best playoff scorer. Incidentally, 22 is what Pippen averaged and 6th is where he ranked. Behind Barkley, Hakeem, Malone & Reggie. All very good scorers. :confusedshrug:

[ShawkFactory]

22ppg puts 94 Pippen at number 7 for best playoff scorer. Incidentally, 22 is what Pippen averaged and 6th is where he ranked. Behind Barkley, Hakeem, Malone & Reggie. All very good scorers. :confusedshrug:

Yep. He was also the leading scorer on both teams in 4 of the 7 games against the Knicks. They were a play or two away from beating the #1 SRS team without home court advantage. They actually outscored them in the series overall and had a better offensive rating. If the Bulls has home court I’d bet they win the series.

He was extremely disruptive against the Knicks (and in the playoffs in general; 25ppg against the Cavs in round one). Looked like Ed Reed on defense. Dude was absolutely everywhere and brought it for the entire game. Pretty impressive

[3ba11]

22ppg puts 94 Pippen at number 7 for best playoff scorer. Incidentally, 22 is what Pippen averaged and 6th is where he ranked. Behind Barkley, Hakeem, Malone & Reggie. All very good scorers. :confusedshrug:


7th isn't good, especially if that's your best/peak

Pippen had everything going for him in 94' and 7th was the best he could do..

After he was exposed in the 94' Playoffs and the 3-peat luster gone, the Bulls were a .500 ballclub in 95' until MJ returned - so Pippen destroyed a dynasty in less than 2 years.. That's what happens when you try to force a defensive role player into a 1st option role.. Pippen's worst-ever westbrook efficiency confirms that he couldn't handle the 1st option load, or the 2nd!!!!

[MadDog]

Lol how is 7th not good? If you're top 10 in scoring, by definition you are a GOOD scorer. Cut it out. :oldlol:


Yep. He was also the leading scorer on both teams in 4 of the 7 games against the Knicks. They were a play or two away from beating the #1 SRS team without home court advantage. They actually outscored them in the series overall and had a better offensive rating. If the Bulls has home court I’d bet they win the series.

He was extremely disruptive against the Knicks (and in the playoffs in general; 25ppg against the Cavs in round one). Looked like Ed Reed on defense. Dude was absolutely everywhere and brought it for the entire game. Pretty impressive

Great post. 3ball's obsession with scoring has reared its ugly head. Adjusted for the era, Pippen was a fantastic sidekick scorer. And as a number one, he's among the elites (during that time period). Pippen's scoring isn't what made him though. His defense was so good he often impacted that end like a bigman. For a wing that's VERY impressive.

[3ba11]

Great post. 3ball's obsession with scoring has reared its ugly head. When adjusted for the era, Pippen was a fantastic sidekick scorer. And as a number one, among the elites (during that time period). Pippen's scorng isn't what made him though. His defense was so good he often impacted that end like a bigman. For a wing that's VERY impressive.


17.6 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs is bad in any era because that's the AVERAGE - there's many series where he was much worse than that - half his Finals were at 15 ppg or 45% true shooting.

There's simply no era adjustment for worst-ever efficiency.. So 16 on 50% isn't horrible, but 16 on 39% is completely wetting the bed, and Pippen wet the bed in most big series - this includes four different 7 game series that only went 7 because he wet the bed (90' ECF, 92' ECSF, 94' ECSF, 98' ECF)

[ShawkFactory]

Lol how is 7th not good? If you're top 10 in scoring, by definition you are a GOOD scorer. Cut it out. :oldlol:



Great post. 3ball's obsession with scoring has reared its ugly head. Adjusted for the era, Pippen was a fantastic sidekick scorer. And as a number one, he's among the elites (during that time period). Pippen's scoring isn't what made him though. His defense was so good he often impacted that end like a bigman. For a wing that's VERY impressive.

Yea the Kobe Stan tendencies do indeed come out pretty frequently. When a guy who can make a huge impact on the game without scoring is 7th in the league in scoring? Pretty valuable sidekick you got yourself there

[3ba11]

Yea the Kobe Stan tendencies do indeed come out pretty frequently. When a guy who can make a huge impact on the game without scoring is 7th in the league in scoring? Pretty valuable sidekick you got yourself there


Pippen's 1994 season means as much as Hughes 2005 season - a garbage peak and nearly every other year was much worse

[ShawkFactory]

Pippen's 1994 season means as much as Hughes 2005 season - a garbage peak and nearly every other year was much worse

Even if that were true (it's obviously not but I don't care to discuss that further with you)...

...Hughes actually DID suck then? Damn you've been going absolutely nuts with the self-contradictions lately :lol

[3ba11]

Even if that were true (it's obviously not but I don't care to discuss that further with you)...

...Hughes actually DID suck then? Damn you've been going absolutely nuts with the self-contradictions lately :lol


Hughes and Pippen both sucked - I've always said that

Btw, the list of guys that were borderline top 10 in scoring is a shitty list - Antawn Jamison was better scorer than Pippen

[ShawkFactory]

Hughes and Pippen both sucked - I've always said that

Btw, the list of guys that were borderline top 10 in scoring is a shitty list - Antawn Jamison was better scorer than Pippen

Enjoy your Saturday :lol

[3ba11]

Enjoy your Saturday :lol


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496233-Jamison-averaged-32-10-vs-Lebron-in-Playoffs-Middleton-got-24-6-vs-Crowder

[RRR3]

Hughes and Pippen both sucked - I've always said that

Btw, the list of guys that were borderline top 10 in scoring is a shitty list - Antawn Jamison was better scorer than Pippen
If Hughes sucked stop saying he was great help for LeBron then.

[Hey Yo]

^^^^^ That's what every good hustle player does - you just listed a bunch of role player shit that you're lionizing into star shit as a double standard

Players with spotty scoring that play good defense are called defensive role players, period... So you aren't fooling anyone by pretending to be impressed with shit that everyone knows is role player shit...

If a guy does all the stuff you said but averages 15 on 34% or 17 on 41%, then he's a defensive role player... I'd say he's Draymond but that's an insult to Draymond... It's more like an entire 3-peat of Iggy's worst games...

Now if the guy averages 21.7 on 40% and many chokes like Pippen managed against the 94' Knicks, then he's a defensive role player forced into a 1st option role that he obviously can't handle.






If Pippen hadn't fouled a jumpshooter with the game on the line, then he would've been the best player FOR THAT GAME - he was otherwise destroyed by Ewing and played like dogshit, easily worse than Iggy against Dwight in the 09' Playoffs (stats in the OP).






MVP award isn't a player ranking - a big part of the award is measuring which team and player surprised the most - Pippen got 3rd in MVP because he was 1st option on one of the biggest surprise teams ever..

And no one knows he was 3rd unless they look it up on bballref because he wasn't a real candidate, aka he was literally never talked about for the award during the season or time period...

This is standard - other guys that were 3rd like Blake or PG13 were barely talked too, but Pippen never was.. It's simply a situation where when the votes were tallied, the surprise factor registered 3rd..

How were the voters surprised with the Bulls in 94' when you've said numerous of times the champion system is the reason for their 55 wins? Why would media be surprised if it's so obvious?

[JohnMax]

https://stathead.com/tiny/uiHs6

[3ba11]

https://stathead.com/tiny/uiHs6


The OP shows that Pippen was Iggy-caliber as 1st option, and was 0/6 in FMVP compared to 1/3 for Iggy.

So Pippen's peak caliber < Iggy's, and Pippen was only a 2nd option alongside Jordan, otherwise he wasn't even a 2nd option.. aka the career stats are influenced by playing with Jordan... That's why I only included apples to apples stats in the OP

[RogueBorg]

In game 7 of the '94 ECF, Pippen shot 8-22, 1-6 from three, and was 3-6 from the line scoring 20 points. Absolute garbage as the leading man.
Pete Myers was 7-8 for 15 points.

[ShawkFactory]

In game 7 of the '94 ECF, Pippen shot 8-22, 1-6 from three, and was 3-6 from the line scoring 20 points. Absolute garbage as the leading man.
Pete Myers was 7-8 for 15 points.

Pippen was the leading scorer in the game. Led the Bulls in rebounding by a lot too. Pretty important in a defensive slug fest

[GimmeThat]

a usage of 31.7% to the next at 25.9% (Pippen) can't be considered the same as 26.1% to the next best of 25.7% (Iggy) right