Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #13

[dankok8]

List

#1 - Michael Jordan
#2 - Lebron James
#3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#4 - Bill Russell
#5 - Wilt Chamberlain
#6 - Magic Johnson
#7 - Shaquille O'Neal
#8 - Tim Duncan
#9 - Larry Bird
#10 - Hakeem Olajuwon
#11 - Kobe Bryant
#12 - Stephen Curry
#13 - NOW VOTING

Top 25 Player Pool

https://i.ibb.co/9b0LDgJ/Player-Pool-Top-25.jpg

For a full player pool and vote breakdowns see the link.

Everyone may post in this thread but only votes from serious contributors will be considered. Not everyone has to write an essay but there should be some justification or explanation and some coherent arguments being presented. I encourage people to be open-minded and willing to adjust their rankings in response to strong evidence. Debate and discussion is encouraged.

Opening Vote Tally

Oscar Robertson - 7 (L. Kizzle, colts19, Thenameless, dankok8, SouBeachTalents, SaintzFury13, coastalmarker99)
Kevin Durant - 4 (Manny98, 8Ball, 1987_Lakers, nayte)
Jerry West - 3 (ArbitraryWater, TheCorporation, Taurus)
Moses Malone - 3 (Lebron23, jlip, Overdrive)
Kawhi Leonard - 2 (kawhileonard2, HBK_Kliq_2)
Karl Malone - 1 (Magic is Magic)
Julius Erving - 1 (jalbert009)

[Kobe_Bryant]

steph Curry was voted over Julius Erving? Moses Malone? Jerry West? Oscar Robertson?


ok my spot is officially the 2nd least offensive thing about this list


the guys who swept the 1983 Lakers in the nba finals are below the guy who needed Andre Iguodala to carry him past a 1 man show injured cavs

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Moses_Malone_cropped_portrait.jpg

https://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/nba/teamsites-nbateams/release/sixers/sites/sixers/files/163563885.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ff/be/55/ffbe555a9d23244ffc29b4aaefaa12e2.jpg

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2016/02/26/Indianapolis/Indianapolis/635920704772201014-inidc5-5klm0a74ao019bed8g1i-original.jpg?width=2560


https://i.imgur.com/Jg6TZJ1.gif?noredirect

[ClipperRevival]

steph Curry was voted over Julius Erving? Moses Malone? Jerry West? Oscar Robertson?


ok my spot is officially the 2nd least offensive thing about this list


the guys who swept the 1983 Lakers in the nba finals are below the guy who needed Andre Iguodala to carry him past a 1 man show injured cavs

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Moses_Malone_cropped_portrait.jpg

https://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/nba/teamsites-nbateams/release/sixers/sites/sixers/files/163563885.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ff/be/55/ffbe555a9d23244ffc29b4aaefaa12e2.jpg

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2016/02/26/Indianapolis/Indianapolis/635920704772201014-inidc5-5klm0a74ao019bed8g1i-original.jpg?width=2560


https://i.imgur.com/Jg6TZJ1.gif?noredirect

Recency bias will always be a factor.

That's why LeBron being ranked top 2-3 right now is a mirage. Reality is, he is more of a top 5 ish player. History will judge him accordingly.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Mr 0\5 on finals MVP already made this list and not leonard, what a tragedy.

[AussieSteve]

Def some recency bias in Steph's spot here.

[AussieSteve]

Mr 0\5 on finals MVP already made this list and not leonard, what a tragedy.

Kawhi won't be getting any votes apart from yours for at least another 10-15 spots. Be prepared for that.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi won't be getting any votes apart from yours for at least another 10-15 spots. Be prepared for that.

0\5 on finals mvps and will never sniff a finals again.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Curry has never even averaged 30PPG in the playoffs either and that's supposed to be his fallback since he has no defense or playmaking.

[MadDog]

Curry has never even averaged 30PPG in the playoffs either and that's supposed to be his fallback since he has no defense or playmaking.

Who cares about that when his impact is all-time. Curry also averages 7 assists for his career, and you're saying he's got no playmaking? Learn the game.

[AussieSteve]

0\5 on finals mvps and will never sniff a finals again.

This is true. 12 is definitely to high for him. But one thing is 100% certain in every sane person's mind... Steph belongs much higher on this list than Kawhi.

[MadDog]

Debating between Doctor J, West & Durant. Came into this thread with the intent on voting for Doc, but after thinking about it, not so sure. They all bring a lot to the table and have achieved a ton. IMO West was a better 2 way player than Doc however Durant has upstaged West on offense. For as weak of a move Durant to Golden State was, he did prove that he could lead a team to the finals (OKC). West had to battle those Celtic teams though. Damn. Its close, but I'll go with the logo.

[dankok8]

Nothing wrong with Curry getting the #12 spot. The guy is an offensive savant and elevated talented but definitely not historically stacked pre-KD Warriors to historic offensive heights. I had Oscar but Curry getting this spot is not a travesty by any means IMO. The whole FMVP argument is also pretty dumb. He was the deserved FMVP in 2015 and possibly in 2018 as well. In fact he had one subpar finals (2016) out of five that he played in.

[Kobe_Bryant]

Nothing wrong with Curry getting the #12 spot. The guy is an offensive savant and elevated talented but definitely not historically stacked pre-KD Warriors to historic offensive heights. I had Oscar but Curry getting this spot is not a travesty by any means IMO. The whole FMVP argument is also pretty dumb. He was the deserved FMVP in 2015 and possibly in 2018 as well. In fact he had one subpar finals (2016) out of five that he played in.

can you name a single online list, player list, fan list that has curry 13th or higher


i think stephen a smith might be the only guy whos put curry that high and he did it only cause he judges everything on how the game is played today

[8Ball]

Durant has to be next at 13, how is Oscar ahead of Durant here?

Or Moses.

[Kobe_Bryant]

Durant has to be next at 13, how is Oscar ahead of Durant here?

Or Moses.

whos after durant. giannis lol


you kids need to watch some film. and its not about whos more talented in a vacuum. its about how they impacted their era. how good their era was. how they won. how they got their teammates. how physical it was.


if we just based things off talent in a time machine bringing guys to the present day then russell wouldn't even be top 50 and tmac would be top 10

[8Ball]

Recency bias will always be a factor.

That's why LeBron being ranked top 2-3 right now is a mirage. Reality is, he is more of a top 5 ish player. History will judge him accordingly.

History won't be putting inferior players ahead of Bron.

There is not 1 player historically that is better at basketball than Bron. Maybe on Jordan.

[Kobe_Bryant]

History won't be putting inferior players ahead of Bron.

There is not 1 player historically that is better at basketball than Bron. Maybe on Jordan.

lebron isn't aesthetically pleasing to watch. hes like karl/moses. hes kind of an eye sore

nobodies gonna ever look up "lebron tough shots compilation" ... he took like 2 contested shots in 2019 and 2020



.
2019 Regular Season

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-25-2020/0pXaJU.gif


2020 Regular Season

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-25-2020/y33l5k.gif


2020 Playoffs

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-25-2020/vSfQ3r.gif

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shots-dash/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season


^^^ LeDefer, aka LeSecond Option took 12 contested jumpers for the entire 2019 and 2020 seasons... :yaohappy:... :roll:..

this beta brand was lottery in the West without AD

And the goat can't have sub-par jumpshooting skill and weak pure scoring ability because it doesn't translate over eras (the no-spacing eras had to take contested mid-range to average 30)




lebron will slide all time once his careers over. he won't attract new fans with his highlights. he will just be looked back at as dominant and boring like shaq or duncan

[Magic Is Magic]

Nothing wrong with Curry getting the #12 spot. The guy is an offensive savant and elevated talented but definitely not historically stacked pre-KD Warriors to historic offensive heights. I had Oscar but Curry getting this spot is not a travesty by any means IMO. The whole FMVP argument is also pretty dumb. He was the deserved FMVP in 2015 and possibly in 2018 as well. In fact he had one subpar finals (2016) out of five that he played in.

His career is too early to be #12. Would this mean a Finals MVP would push Kobe or Hakeem out of the top ten? I think his career has a chance at top 12 but he cannot be top 12 at this point. Kobe > Curry

[Kobe_Bryant]

His career is too early to be #12. Would this mean a Finals MVP would push Kobe or Hakeem out of the top ten? I think his career has a chance at top 12 but he cannot be top 12 at this point. Kobe > Curry

oh its 100% these clowns would put curry over me if he won 1 fmvp

[Thenameless]

Durant has to be next at 13, how is Oscar ahead of Durant here?


Maybe because Oscar Robertson isn't a bitch.

[jlip]

Nothing wrong with Curry getting the #12 spot. The guy is an offensive savant and elevated talented but definitely not historically stacked pre-KD Warriors to historic offensive heights. I had Oscar but Curry getting this spot is not a travesty by any means IMO. The whole FMVP argument is also pretty dumb. He was the deserved FMVP in 2015 and possibly in 2018 as well. In fact he had one subpar finals (2016) out of five that he played in.

^This^

While I voted for Moses initially in the 12 spot, we are dealing with a cluster of players who are, for all intents and purposes, on the same tier such as Oscar, West, Dr. J, Moses, Curry, and KD. The gap between #12 and #17 is almost negligible, and these rankings could be interchanged based on criteria. With Dr. J, a lot rests on how one values his ABA career. I don't know the answer to this, but it can't be ignored as though it didn't happen.

[dankok8]

can you name a single online list, player list, fan list that has curry 13th or higher


i think stephen a smith might be the only guy whos put curry that high and he did it only cause he judges everything on how the game is played today

Well this list does and honestly I feel a good argument can be made.


His career is too early to be #12. Would this mean a Finals MVP would push Kobe or Hakeem out of the top ten? I think his career has a chance at top 12 but he cannot be top 12 at this point. Kobe > Curry


Curry already has 7 seasons where he's a consensus top 5 players in the league, 2 MVP's, 3 titles as the best/co-best player... Curry led Klay and Dray, too good players but far from locks for the HOF to two historically great seasons and offensive juggernauts before KD ever came. His longevity is limited and that's why I had Oscar over him but it's not clear-cut.

I will say though...

People should make sure that their criteria is consistent. For example if you have Kareem or Lebron as your GOAT's because you weigh longevity very heavily, then make sure Karl Malone isn't outside of your top 15/20 or else you look like a hypocrite. :lol

[RRR3]

Oscar.

[Phoenix]

I'll go Oscar here.

[hold this L]

ISH voted the Chef at the correct position, same place I got him in the all time list. :applause:

Kobe should be a few steps better than 11th though.

[Chick Stern]

ISH voted the Chef at the correct position, same place I got him in the all time list. :applause:

Kobe should be a few steps better than 11th though.
Yep. His position is laughable. As is Shaq.

The Logo.

[L.Kizzle]

Not sure how I feel about Steph at #12. I have him usually about 5 spots lower.

Big O is my vote here.

[Phoenix]

Not sure how I feel about Steph at #12. I have him usually about 5 spots lower.

Big O is my vote here.

IMO the 12-16 spots are pretty interchangeable, as are 17-20.

[Kobe_Bryant]

IMO the 12-16 spots are pretty interchangeable, as are 17-20.

but the 12-16 spots should be Moses, Dr J, West, Oscar and Durant

[Phoenix]

but the 12-16 spots should be Moses, Dr J, West, Oscar and Durant

Not in that order but those are my next 4( already picked Oscar above).

[NBAGOAT]

assuming vote goes similar to last where I really should be looking at the group of guys who finished behind steph but got multiple votes. I'm going with oscar out of that group. Lower than consensus on moses.

[Phoenix]

assuming vote goes similar to last where I really should be looking at the group of guys who finished behind steph but got multiple votes. I'm going with oscar out of that group. Lower than consensus on moses.

I predict the next spots will be Oscar, Durant, West, Moses, Dr.J. Have 18-22 mapped out in my head too but won't jump too far of myself yet.

[RRR3]

I just realized CP3, Dirk and Stockton aren’t available for top 25. That’s insane considering you can make a convincing case for all 3 being in the top 25. Please fix OP. Cowens? Mikan? Kawhi “5 injury riddled seasons as a superstar” Leonard? Lol. Don’t limit who people can vote for that’s stupid. If you get a stupid vote like HBK_Kliq voting Kawhi too highly, just don’t count it we’ll back you up.

[Phoenix]

I just realized CP3, Dirk and Stockton aren’t available for top 25. That’s insane considering you can make a convincing case for all 3 being in the top 25. Please fix OP. Cowens? Mikan? Kawhi “5 injury riddled seasons as a superstar” Leonard? Lol. Don’t limit who people can vote for that’s stupid. If you get a stupid vote like HBK_Kliq voting Kawhi too highly, just don’t count it we’ll back you up.

? Dirk's name is 5th on the list in the OP.

In general, despite the incessant trolling that occurs on this board, the rankings so far aren't the worst I've seen despite outright retards like HBK with access to the internet. I voted for Steph at 12 but I'm surprised enough posters felt the same.

[RRR3]

? Dirk's name is 5th on the list in the OP.

In general, despite the incessant trolling that occurs on this board, the rankings so far aren't the worst I've seen despite outright retards like HBK with access to the internet. I voted for Steph at 12 but I'm surprised enough posters felt the same.
Ok I missed Dirk but point stands for CP3 and Stockton. Does anyone actually rank George Mikan over them lol? I plan to start voting for CP3 long before we get to 25 and considering there isn’t a logical argument to be made for multiple players listed being better than him who are capable of being voted for, I think it’s unfair to say who we can vote for. OP is limiting who we can vote for off of his own opinion of where players rank, and I can prove OP wrong in some of these cases. I think we all would support OP if he disregards obviously ridiculous votes so no need to have limits like this.

[Phoenix]

Ok I missed Dirk but point stands for CP3 and Stockton. Does anyone actually rank George Mikan over them lol? I plan to start voting for CP3 long before we get to 25 and considering there isn’t a logical argument to be made for multiple players listed being better than him who are capable of being voted for, I think it’s unfair to say who we can vote for. OP is limiting who we can vote for off of his own opinion of where players rank, and I can prove OP wrong in some of these cases. I think we all would support OP if he disregards obviously ridiculous votes so no need to have limits like this.

I would have had Stockton in my top 25 maybe 15 years ago, but I think the last 2 eras have produced enough players that he's slid out of my top 30. CP3 is arguable top 25-30 (strong argument to be clear) but yes I agree that both should be available for voting.

[RRR3]

I would have had Stockton in my top 25 maybe 15 years ago, but I think the last 2 eras have produced enough players that he's slid out of my top 30. CP3 is arguable top 25-30 (strong argument to be clear) but yes I agree that both should be available for voting.
You can argue CP3 higher. Idk exactly where I’d put him but backpicks had him 20th or so and I think we all agree backpicks GOAT list was extremely thorough and well researched (although I dissgree with his assessments of KG and Wilt). Certainly I’m not seeing why Nash would be a tier above CP3 I’d take CP3 over him tbh.

As for Stockton, maybe so but his longevity was superb so that will boost him on a GOAT list. We’re not listing best peaks here or T-Mac would’ve surely been available.

[Phoenix]

You can argue CP3 higher. Idk exactly where I’d put him but backpicks had him 20th or so and I think we all agree backpicks GOAT list was extremely thorough and well researched (although I dissgree with his assessments of KG and Wilt). Certainly I’m not seeing why Nash would be a tier above CP3 I’d take CP3 over him tbh.

As for Stockton, maybe so but his longevity was superb so that will boost him on a GOAT list. We’re not listing best peaks here or T-Mac would’ve surely been available.

I've pretty much done my top 25 based on this exercise and I honestly can't find a spot for him. I'm gonna throw some names out that are still on the board ( and I'm not discounting that Stock had crazy longevity and consistency): Oscar, Durant, Moses, Dr.J, West, Mailman, Dirk, KG, Barkley, Wade, Robinson, Ewing, Harden, Giannis, Ewing, Isiah, Pippen, Baylor, Petit, CP3.

[ELITEpower23]

I just realized CP3, Dirk and Stockton aren’t available for top 25. That’s insane considering you can make a convincing case for all 3 being in the top 25. Please fix OP. Cowens? Mikan? Kawhi “5 injury riddled seasons as a superstar” Leonard? Lol. Don’t limit who people can vote for that’s stupid. If you get a stupid vote like HBK_Kliq voting Kawhi too highly, just don’t count it we’ll back you up.

+1

OP cant put a cap on who is and isnt at this point. It made sense at the top ten level maybe, but now it's open game.

[Overdrive]

+1

OP cant put a cap on who is and isnt at this point. It made sense at the top ten level maybe, but now it's open game.

It was in the opening post of the series that you can vote on whoever you feel like unless you're a known troll. Vote Pau for #13 and the vote will count..

[dankok8]

You can consider CP3 or Stockton or anyone else for top 25 but those are the players we brainstormed in the beginning. I don't think those two guys will get serious love for those position. Not when there are guys who were multiple MVP's with legitimate cases for best player in the league.

[dankok8]

Final Vote Tally

Oscar Robertson - 10 (L. Kizzle, colts19, Thenameless, dankok8, SouBeachTalents, SaintzFury13, coastalmarker99, RRR3, Phoenix, NBAGOAT)
Jerry West - 5 (ArbitraryWater, TheCorporation, Taurus, MadDog, Chick Stern)
Kevin Durant - 4 (Manny98, 8Ball, 1987_Lakers, nayte)
Moses Malone - 3 (Lebron23, jlip, Overdrive)
Kawhi Leonard - 2 (kawhileonard2, HBK_Kliq_2)
Karl Malone - 1 (Magic is Magic)
Julius Erving - 1 (jalbert009)

Oscar wins. Thread #14 is now open.

[Chick Stern]

Yep. His position is laughable. As is Shaq.

The Logo.

Jerry has five votes

[dankok8]

Jerry has five votes

Thanks. Fixed!

[TheCorporation]

It was in the opening post of the series that you can vote on whoever you feel like unless you're a known troll. Vote Pau for #13 and the vote will count..

The point of voting is to...vote. Not for you to control who's vote matters. So if 20 people voted Pau then the people have spoken. Obviously that wouldn't happen because people are taking this seriously. A vote's a vote chico.

[Overdrive]

The point of voting is to...vote. Not for you to control who's vote matters. So if 20 people voted Pau then the people have spoken. Obviously that wouldn't happen because people are taking this seriously. A vote's a vote chico.

These aren't my rules. IDGAF puto.