Kawhi might be better than MJ

[GrayGoat]

2- DPOY > 1
Comparable midrange
Better 3pt shooter
Same mid range, fadeaway, pump fake.

[Bronbron23]

2- DPOY > 1
Comparable midrange
Better 3pt shooter
Same mid range, fadeaway, pump fake.

And you might be an idiot. MJ's mid and post game were significantly better. Mj was way better at attacking the rim. Mj was also a better passer. Rebounds are the same although mj did it in an era where the paint was more pact and therefore it was harder to get a reb. Kawhi is a better defender but it's minuscule. Mj was way more athletic also. Mj was also way more reliable physically.

I won't even bother getting into the landslide when it comes to chips, stats and accolades. I know your trolling and know this already but this shit ain't close.

[tontoz]

:roll:

Kawhi didn't even average 20 ppg until his 5th year and is only a part time player, the poster boy for load management.

Weak trolling attempt

[Kobe_Bryant]

skill wise kawhis probly better but he wasn't even close to the athlete and he doesn't have the same killer mentality.


a lot of guys are more talented than Jordan was like myself, tmac, bird, Durant etc...


what makes him the goat is his resume and ability to fly through the air and grip the ball like a grapefruit and dominate the end of games routinely. that and he produced more than any of us.

that being said it's possible some of us would beat him 1 on 1

but he only admits I would kick his ass

[Bronbron23]

skill wise kawhis probly better but he wasn't even close to the athlete and he doesn't have the same killer mentality.


a lot of guys are more talented than Jordan was like myself, tmac, bird, Durant etc...


what makes him the goat is his resume and ability to fly through the air and grip the ball like a grapefruit and dominate the end of games routinely. that and he produced more than any of us.

that being said it's possible some of us would beat him 1 on 1

but he only admits I would kick his ass

Not sure how he's better skill wise. He's only better in shooting 3's and maybe ft. Mj was more skilled in every other aspect. Post moves, footwork, mid range, finishing, off ball movement, handles and passing.

[Phoenix]

Not sure how he's better skill wise. He's only better in shooting 3's and maybe ft. Mj was more skilled in every other aspect. Post moves, footwork, mid range, finishing, off ball movement, handles and passing.

Along with a more modern handle. We're getting to the point now where I think MJ's 'skills' are becoming underrated because he didn't jack up 10 threes a game like the modern NBA guard. Kawhi has good footwork but alot of it feels very choreographed. MJ was much more instinctive with making offensive moves and counters on the fly. Kawhi isn't remotely as co-ordinated or fluid.

[Bronbron23]

Along with a more modern handle. We're getting to the point now where I think MJ's 'skills' are becoming underrated because he didn't jack up 10 threes a game like the modern NBA guard. Kawhi has good footwork but alot of it feels very choreographed. MJ was much more instinctive with making offensive moves and counters on the fly. Kawhi isn't remotely as co-ordinated or fluid.

Yeah not even close. Those terminator commercials were perfect because he's very robotic in his movements.

[pandiani17]

:oldlol:

[3ba11]

Jordan could float, hang, and mitigate multiple defenders in the air - no one in history could do that like MJ and the extra airtime made his shots look different.

no one in history makes shots like this - literally no one:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HmHV1CgHwA4&t=04m23s


^^^^ that's on another level from Kawhi... So is this (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?390366-A-few-jumpshots-that-Curry-cant-make-(of-many)) or this (https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/kV0RAl.gif) or this (https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-23-2021/hblyuH.gif)

Jordan's game simply looks far better than Kawhi's in every way, and Jordan was a far superior shooter - whenever Jordan took more than bailout volume (more than 1.5 attempts), he shot much better than Kawhi.. he would get in rhythm more in today's game at higher volume, just like the 92' Finals or 93' Playoffs, where he shot 40% on 4 attempts (better than Kawhi's 2019 run).. Kawhi's shot is ugly compared to Jordans goat form.

How can anyone watch MJ and think the far less athletic, slower and mechanical Kawhi with no hangtime is anywhere near Jordan?

[lakerstekkenn]

2- DPOY > 1
Comparable midrange
Better 3pt shooter
Same mid range, fadeaway, pump fake.


You need to repent and find Jordan as your basketball savoir confess your ignorance and proclaim Jordan as the great`ever, Amen.

[TheCorporation]

Kawhi in the 90s would be UNFAIR. He'd look like 2009-2020 Cheat code LeBron.

[3ba11]

Kawhi in the 90s would be UNFAIR. He'd look like 2009-2020 Cheat code LeBron.


Kawhi can't beat Jokic as the massive favorite despite having a sidekick that achieved peak Pippen stats

PG13 averaged 21 on 45% against Denver (peak Pippen stats)... but this was considered horrible help, so he was called "Pandemic P"... indeed, Jordan won 6 titles with a sidekick getting less stats than Pandemic P - 6 titles with Pandemic Pippen

So Kawhi is nowhere near Jordan

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi's 2019 playoff run was better then anything Jordan ever did. 732 points on 62% TS, game 7 buzzer beater, shut down giannis.

I would say kawhi is the better overall player: better shooter, more efficient scorer, better defender, bigger and stronger physically as well.

[Phoenix]

Kawhi's 2019 playoff run was better then anything Jordan ever did. 732 points on 62% TS, game 7 buzzer beater, shut down giannis.

I would say kawhi is the better overall player: better shooter, more efficient scorer, better defender, bigger and stronger physically as well.

Is hoping you walked into rush-hour blindfolded a bit too far? If so then
https://c.tenor.com/WBSt2gcsNVMAAAAM/we-dont-care.gif

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi can't beat Jokic as the massive favorite despite having a sidekick that achieved peak Pippen stats

PG13 averaged 21 on 45% against Denver (peak Pippen stats)... but this was considered horrible help, so he was called "Pandemic P"... indeed, Jordan won 6 titles with a sidekick getting less stats than Pandemic P - 6 titles with Pandemic Pippen

So Kawhi is nowhere near Jordan

He lost to shaq in 1995 and didn't even go game 7. That was Orlando shaq and not Lakers shaq either, so he wasn't much better then Jokic.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Is hoping you walked into rush-hour blindfolded a bit too far? If so then
https://c.tenor.com/WBSt2gcsNVMAAAAM/we-dont-care.gif

4 out of 5 straight on luka

3-0 in Dallas

[Phoenix]

4 out of 5 straight on luka

3-0 in Dallas

https://c.tenor.com/WBSt2gcsNVMAAAAM/we-dont-care.gif

[Phoenix]

He lost to shaq in 1995 and didn't even go game 7. That was Orlando shaq and not Lakers shaq either, so he wasn't much better then Jokic.

Lose to Shaq, or lose to this dude:

https://celebtap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Brian-Windhorst-640x471.jpg

https://c.tenor.com/AKLbToyCifQAAAAM/ray-liotta-laughing-ray-liotta.gif

[HBK_Kliq_2]

https://c.tenor.com/WBSt2gcsNVMAAAAM/we-dont-care.gif

Luka cared

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Lose to Shaq, or lose to this dude:

https://celebtap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Brian-Windhorst-640x471.jpg

https://c.tenor.com/AKLbToyCifQAAAAM/ray-liotta-laughing-ray-liotta.gif

What's their total regular season mvp count? And how many finals wins did Orlando shaq have?

[Phoenix]

Luka cared

But I don't soooooo....

[Phoenix]

What's their total regular season mvp count? And how many finals wins did Orlando shaq have?

How many finals has Joker had?

https://c.tenor.com/n48uYL8UqNgAAAAC/edgeworth-ace.gif

[HBK_Kliq_2]

But I don't soooooo....

You have a loser mentality then

[GrayGoat]

MJ’s toughest comp was John Stockton. Who has Kawhi faced in the finals? LeBron? A top 2 GOAT

[HBK_Kliq_2]

How many finals has Joker had?

https://c.tenor.com/n48uYL8UqNgAAAAC/edgeworth-ace.gif

Shaq and Jokic = same amount of mvps

Shaq in Orlando = never won a finals game

[HBK_Kliq_2]

MJ’s toughest comp was John Stockton. Who has Kawhi faced in the finals? LeBron? A top 2 GOAT

Lebron, curry, giannis all in the playoffs

[Phoenix]

You have a loser mentality then

No, I don't live vicariously through another player to care about their wins and losses. You on the other hand

https://c.tenor.com/_RXvBoRx9xkAAAAd/idi-amin-laugh.gif

[Phoenix]

Shaq and Jokic = same amount of mvps

Shaq in Orlando = never won a finals game

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/2c/ed/4e2ced108cc707991af7e3de5bb9dda6.gif

Joker= never made a finals to win or lose a game

[GrayGoat]

Lebron, curry, giannis all in the playoffs

MJ’s comp is laughable by comparison

[HBK_Kliq_2]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/2c/ed/4e2ced108cc707991af7e3de5bb9dda6.gif

Joker= never made a finals to win or lose a game

Same amount of finals wins, thanks for proving my point.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

No, I don't live vicariously through another player to care about their wins and losses. You on the other hand

https://c.tenor.com/_RXvBoRx9xkAAAAd/idi-amin-laugh.gif

Kawhi has bought 500k worth of stock inside luka's head

[Phoenix]

Same amount of finals wins, thanks for proving my point.

So no finals appearances For Jokester? Appreciate your support.

[Phoenix]

Kawhi has bought 500k worth of stock inside luka's head

Problem is though, other than you
https://c.tenor.com/WBSt2gcsNVMAAAAM/we-dont-care.gif

[HBK_Kliq_2]

MJ’s comp is laughable by comparison

And nobody on that raptors roster came even close to Scottie pippen's resume. He has like 17 all NBA selections if you include all NBA and all defense

[HBK_Kliq_2]

So no finals appearances For Jokester? Appreciate your support.

So no finals wins for Orlando shaq? Appreciate your support

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Problem is though, other than you
https://c.tenor.com/WBSt2gcsNVMAAAAM/we-dont-care.gif

Don't forget luka and a million Dallas maverick fans

[Phoenix]

So no finals wins for Orlando shaq? Appreciate your support

So....no finals for Jokey?

https://c.tenor.com/zphYN9d026IAAAAM/star-trek-star-trek-tos.gif

[Phoenix]

Don't forget luka and a million Dallas maverick fans

Comparing a player at his peak with a better team with a third year player and a worse one:
https://c.tenor.com/_RXvBoRx9xkAAAAd/idi-amin-laugh.gif

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Comparing a player at his peak with a better team with a third year player and a worse one:
https://c.tenor.com/_RXvBoRx9xkAAAAd/idi-amin-laugh.gif

luka was 1st team all nba, he's in his prime\peak. He's not magically going to get anymore athletic. He's already the biggest ballhog in the league as well, so he's not going to get more opportunities.

[Phoenix]

luka was 1st team all nba, he's in his prime\peak. He's not magically going to get anymore athletic. He's already the biggest ballhog in the league as well, so he's not going to get more opportunities.

Hes 22 and no 22 year old has ever been in his prime regardless of what accolades they achieved, dumbass. Prime/peak is defined as the period when a players skills and physical/mental abilities are most in synergy. That just means Luka is that good very early on( unlike Kawhit who took 5 seasons to make his first all-NBA team), but we've already seen skill improvements since his rookie year so his skillset can certainly improve as well as his game management and general knowledge. And with that said, hes already......with a worse team.....taking peak Kawhi to 7 games.

https://c.tenor.com/hksgG8P6HcAAAAAM/ray-liotta-laugh.gif

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I like Kawhi, but nobody serious thinks that.

He hasn't played long enough. Has never repeated either.


Hes 22 and no 22 year old has ever been in his prime regardless of what accolades they achieved, dumbass. Prime/peak is defined as the period when a players skills and physical/mental abilities are most in synergy. That just means Luka is that good very early on( unlike Kawhit who took 5 seasons to make his first all-NBA team), but we've already seen skill improvements since his rookie year so his skillset can certainly improve as well as his game management and general knowledge. And with that said, hes already......with a worse team.....taking peak Kawhi to 7 games.

https://c.tenor.com/hksgG8P6HcAAAAAM/ray-liotta-laugh.gif

You're talking to someone who needs a rabies shot.

[Thenameless]

I'm a fan of Kawhi's game, but this is getting ridiculous. Sure, they are comparable defensively and if you want to give the edge to Kawhi that's fine. But, Jordan is one of the best scorers of all time, he shows up reliably, and was the best player on two three-peats. Jordan easily.

[rmt]

Yeah not even close. Those terminator commercials were perfect because he's very robotic in his movements.

robotic because you guessed it - learned, imitated, copied from MJ himself. Some of you Kawhi stans should watch him when Kawhi first entered the league - shot completely remade by Chip Engelland and years of practice (thankfully for him - without the pressure of being a franchise player).

I give him credit for absorbing everything (except the loyalty, obviously) the Spurs taught him - like a sponge - not just the technique/technical but the mental stuff (keep trying - don't give up - even when things go wrong).

[rmt]

But this thread is ridiculous.

[colts19]

I am not one of those MJ is the best at everything kind of guys. I think there is an argument for Wilt, Russell, and a few others. I have seen them both play and there really is No and I mean NO, comparison btw MJ and Kawhi. I just don't see the sustained greatness in Kawhi that I saw in MJ, Magic, Bird, Wilt or Russell. JMHO.

[Phoenix]

You're talking to someone who needs a rabies shot.

:oldlol:

[Axe]

MJ’s toughest comp was John Stockton. Who has Kawhi faced in the finals? LeBron? A top 2 GOAT
Yikes

[Full Court]

MJ never had an epic playoff or finals series choke.

Also, 10 scoring titles and 6 FMVPs > 2 DPOY.

[Vino24]

MJ never had an epic playoff or finals series choke.

Also, 10 scoring titles and 6 FMVPs > 2 DPOY.

He also faced trash absolute trash

[SATAN]

This thread is laughable. I understand why it was made but Jesus Christ. Come on, man. :lol

[hateraid]

MJ was obviously better but not by the larger margin. Kawhi carried a much inferior team to win an NBA championship to a much stronger opponent. So impact wise Kawhi is up there

[Sulico]

Ofcourse Kawhi is better. Plenty of people today are better than Jordan ever was.

As far as greatness Kawhi shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan.

[Kobe_Bryant]

He also faced trash absolute trash


if MJ lost in the finals 60% of the time like lebron then people would probably give his competition more respect


sadly Jordan beat everyone

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Ofcourse Kawhi is better. Plenty of people today are better than Jordan ever was.

As far as greatness Kawhi shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan.

Kawhi stopped two different 3peats in 2014 and 2019, testimony to true greatness

[Kobe_Bryant]

how much better do the 2004 pistons and 2008 celtics look because i lost to them


i'm so glad i didn't win 7 rings. then people would mock my competition instead

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/53/61/d0/5361d0e81af7c45d0b1a4c3e99efc6ad.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

how much better do the 2004 pistons and 2008 celtics look because i lost to them


i'm so glad i didn't win 7 rings. then people would mock my competition instead

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/53/61/d0/5361d0e81af7c45d0b1a4c3e99efc6ad.gif
Winning 2 extra rings is preferable to having literally one of the worst Finals of all time, then blowing a 24 point lead at home then getting curb stomped in the clincher by 40

[HBK_Kliq_2]

how much better do the 2004 pistons and 2008 celtics look because i lost to them


i'm so glad i didn't win 7 rings. then people would mock my competition instead

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/53/61/d0/5361d0e81af7c45d0b1a4c3e99efc6ad.gif

Should of won finals MVPS in 2004 or 2008, now kawhi is going to pass you up Kobe.

Kawhi has bigger hands, better shooter, more efficient scorer, better defender, better rebounder, bigger and stronger.

Kawhi is the better leader then kobe as well i would say. Phil Jackson in his book said Kobe had that rapist temper hahahaha

I would put kobe ahead of lebron though

[Kobe_Bryant]

Should of won finals MVPS in 2004 or 2008, now kawhi is going to pass you up Kobe.

Kawhi has bigger hands, better shooter, more efficient scorer, better defender, better rebounder, bigger and stronger.

Kawhi is the better leader then kobe as well i would say. Phil Jackson in his book said Kobe had that rapist temper hahahaha

I would put kobe ahead of lebron though

oh come on

0 mvps, 2 rings, 19ppg career, 3 all nba 1st teams

his career resume has a long ways to go. i'm more worried about durant

[Sulico]

Should of won finals MVPS in 2004 or 2008, now kawhi is going to pass you up Kobe.

Kawhi has bigger hands, better shooter, more efficient scorer, better defender, better rebounder, bigger and stronger.

Kawhi is the better leader then kobe as well i would say. Phil Jackson in his book said Kobe had that rapist temper hahahaha

I would put kobe ahead of lebron though

Kawhi is worse leader than everybody.

Out of 450 players in the NBA I would say Kawhi is ranked somewhere between 445 and 450 as a leader.

People like Rick Barry and Pistol Pete are way better than Kawhi as leaders, and that says a lot.

[Phoenix]

Kawhit should be ranked 451st out of 450 players as far as leadership. That's how bad he is.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

oh come on

0 mvps, 2 rings, 19ppg career, 3 all nba 1st teams

his career resume has a long ways to go. i'm more worried about durant

He has 12 all nba selections if you include all nba and all defense, he actually deserves his all defense selections as well and i can't say the same for 2005-2013 kobe.

The goat finals mvps when he eliminated curry and lebron. All kawhi needs is 1 more finals MVP and anybody who would put kobe over him at that point is a clueless idiot. Your shaq rings don't count as anything more then Kawhi's 2013\14 runs.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi is worse leader than everybody.

Out of 450 players in the NBA I would say Kawhi is ranked somewhere between 445 and 450 as a leader.

People like Rick Barry and Pistol Pete are way better than Kawhi as leaders, and that says a lot.

He led an expansion franchise raptors to a championship despite playing with a bunch of role players who have never won anything in their lifes like lowry, gasol, siakam.

[Kobe_Bryant]

Kawhit should be ranked 451st out of 450 players as far as leadership. That's how bad he is.

i'l admit lowry was the raptors leader in 2019... but wade had to teach lebron how to lead/win at one point as well.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

2000-2002 Shaq > 2014 Parker\Duncan\Manu all combined

[Kobe_Bryant]

He led an expansion franchise raptors to a championship despite playing with a bunch of role players who have never won anything in their lifes like lowry, gasol, siakam.

kawhi was the best player on toronto. he wasn't their leader

[SouBeachTalents]

2000-2002 Shaq > 2014 Parker\Duncan\Manu all combined
2000-2002 Kobe >>> 2014 Kawhi

[Phoenix]

but wade had to teach lebron how to lead/win at one point as well.

That being said though?

https://c.tenor.com/WBSt2gcsNVMAAAAM/we-dont-care.gif

[Kobe_Bryant]

2000-2002 Shaq > 2014 Parker\Duncan\Manu all combined

na. parker, duncan and manu wouldn't need a 21 year old to bail them out multiple times.


shaq was dominant but he wasn't very confident under pressure. he would have his moments where he would get scared like in 97 vs utah when he was afraid to shoot so he made an 18 year old rookie out of highschool try to bring them back in the 4th and overtime. and then again in game 7 vs portland and game 4 vs indiana

shaq had major flaws and needed me for defense and big buckets/assists. the 2014 spurs really only needed kawhis defense

[HBK_Kliq_2]

kawhi was the best player on toronto. he wasn't their leader

lowry told the press that kawhi was the leader during their playoff run.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

na. parker, duncan and manu wouldn't need a 21 year old to bail them out multiple times.


shaq was dominant but he wasn't very confident under pressure. he would have his moments where he would get scared like in 97 vs utah when he was afraid to shoot so he made an 18 year old rookie out of highschool try to bring them back in the 4th and overtime. and then again in game 7 vs portland and game 4 vs indiana

shaq had major flaws and needed me for defense and big buckets/assists. the 2014 spurs really only needed kawhis defense

they needed kawhi to bail them out in 2014 finals and take over when he averaged 24PPG on 69% FG for 3 straight wins.

phil jackson's version of shaq is even better then prime duncan, let alone the washed up 2014 duncan who was more like suns shaq

[Kobe_Bryant]

lowry told the press that kawhi was the leader during their playoff run.

lowry was clearly their leader. kawhi maybe by example? but even then lowry showed more hustle and took charges on D... lowry ran the team/offense/vocal responsibilities

this shouldn't even really be a debate

[Phoenix]

Remember in 2020 when the Clip players were depressed in the bubble? Imagine MJ, Bird, Lebrons or Kobes teammates going for a chip talking about being 'depressed'. Teams follow their 'leader'.

https://i.gifer.com/7PaV.gif

[Kobe_Bryant]

they needed kawhi to bail them out in 2014 finals and take over when he averaged 24PPG on 69% FG for 3 straight wins.

phil jackson's version of shaq is even better then prime duncan, let alone the washed up 2014 duncan who was more like suns shaq


i dunno i would rather have duncan. he can win with a boarderline top 60-70 all time sidekick. shaq needs basically a young or prime michael jordan to win

lol

[HBK_Kliq_2]

lowry was clearly their leader. kawhi maybe by example? but even then lowry showed more hustle and took charges on D... lowry ran the team/offense/vocal responsibilities

this shouldn't even really be a debate

Kawhi insisted he has to guard giannis after they were down 0-2 to the bucks. Lowry is just a fat midget role player who had a 18% usage.

Nobody respects Lowry enough to consider him a leader, he has never even made a 2nd team all NBA and has 1 single all NBA selection.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

i dunno i would rather have duncan. he can win with a boarderline top 60-70 all time sidekick. shaq needs basically a young or prime michael jordan to win

lol

Shaq averaged 37PPG in the 2000 finals. Duncan hasn't even had a single 37+ point finals game. Different tiers as offensive players

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq averaged 37PPG in the 2000 finals. Duncan hasn't even had a single 37+ point finals game. Different tiers as offensive players
Kawhi's never scored 37 points past the 2nd round. In fact outside of the Philly series he's never had a single 37 point game in 7 of his 8 2nd round series

[Kobe_Bryant]

Shaq averaged 37PPG in the 2000 finals. Duncan hasn't even had a single 37+ point finals game. Different tiers as offensive players

yeah but he never has those big averages vs the best teams. just those crap finals eastern representatives

against portland, sanantonio and sacramento he never did that. in fact a lot of the time it was me doing most of the damage. especially against sanantonio

i think against the nets we coulda fed derek fisher for 37 a night

i coulda got all the shots vs philly and me/shaq coulda scored equally and still beat indiana. shaq just knew that the finals mvp would boost his legacy so he gunned for it

[SouBeachTalents]

yeah but he never has those big averages vs the best teams. just those crap finals eastern representatives

against portland, sanantonio and sacramento he never did that. in fact a lot of the time it was me doing most of the damage. especially against sanantonio

i think against the nets we coulda fed derek fisher for 37 a night

i coulda got all the shots vs philly and me/shaq coulda scored equally and still beat indiana. shaq just knew that the finals mvp would boost his legacy so he gunned for it
Well we all saw the tragic results when someone tried gunning for FMVP in 2004.

And btw Shaq took just 18 more shots than Kobe in the '01 & '02 Finals combined, yet outscored him by nearly 10 ppg each time.

[Kobe_Bryant]

Well we all saw the tragic results when someone tried gunning for FMVP in 2004.

And btw Shaq took just 18 more shots than Kobe in the '01 & '02 Finals combined, yet outscored him by nearly 10 ppg each time.


that was a unique situation

1. malone was hurt

2. payton was shooting 20% fg's and taking no defensive pressure off of me. they collapsed every time when i put the ball on the floor

3. larry brown admitted they were letting shaq get his and focussing on everyone else

4. they full court pressed us to take us out of our inside/out system

5. shaq was mostly posting weak side and not going for rebounds due to our feud and him trying to prove a point

6. i had just gone through a rape trial, shoulder and knee surgery and never really got my athleticism back fully that i had in 2003.

7. the pistons were vastly superior defensively than any of indiana, philly or jersey. and quite possibly can be considered the greatest defensive team in finals history or at least tied with the bad boy pistons

8. phil jackson sold us and was already on his way out. he was a racist and had me pegged as the reason his daughter was raped and took out his anger on me and pretty much set us up to fail




and i later proved twice that i could win finals mvp so theres not really much of an argument against me. especially considering its arguable that i was better in 2001 and 2002 than i was in 2009 or 2010

afterall i did outperform peak shaq for the 2001 playoffs

[TheGoatest]

Well we all saw the tragic results when someone tried gunning for FMVP in 2004.


Shaq: 84 shots on .631 shooting during the series
Kobe: 113 shots on .381

By far the most inexcusable shot discrepancy in a playoff series ever between a team's #1 and #2 guy. And on top of that it was a finals series. I'm surprised Shaq didn't physically attack Kobe after that series was over. Instead Shaq just left and Kobe went on to snitch about Shaq's private life.

[Kobe_Bryant]

Shaq: 84 shots on .631 shooting during the series
Kobe: 113 shots on .381

By far the most inexcusable shot discrepancy in a playoff series ever between a team's #1 and #2 guy. And on top of that it was a finals series. I'm surprised Shaq didn't physically attack Kobe after that series was over. Instead Shaq just left and Kobe went on to snitch about Shaq's private life.

actually it is excusable. Shaq needs the ball early in the shot clock and the pistons pressed us nonstop. we had 10 seconds to get a shot most possessions. I had to make something out of nothing and the few times we had a full clock shaq got the ball. see you would know this if you watched the games

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq: 84 shots on .631 shooting during the series
Kobe: 113 shots on .381

By far the most inexcusable shot discrepancy in a playoff series ever between a team's #1 and #2 guy. And on top of that it was a finals series. I'm surprised Shaq didn't physically attack Kobe after that series was over. Instead Shaq just left and Kobe went on to snitch about Shaq's private life.
As insane as that is, Kobe outscored Billups by just 8 points in that series despite taking FIFTY SIX more shots :oldlol:

And for all the flack he gets for his chucking in that series, what's crazy to me is Kobe played 46 minutes a night and averaged less than 3 rebounds per game. I realize that rebounding is not his top priority or responsibility, but here's a guy who averaged 5-8 rebounds in virtually every series of his career, yet he gets less rebounds than Derek Fisher despite playing 130 more minutes in the series.

[Kobe_Bryant]

As insane as that is, Kobe outscored Billups by just 8 points in that series despite taking FIFTY SIX more shots :oldlol:

And for all the flack he gets for his chucking in that series, what's crazy to me is Kobe played 46 minutes a night and averaged less than 3 rebounds per game. I realize that rebounding is not his top priority or responsibility, but here's a guy who averaged 5-8 rebounds in virtually every series of his career, yet he gets less rebounds than Derek Fisher despite playing 130 more minutes in the series.


damn. its almost as if Billups had single coverage while I was being triple teamed

[TheGoatest]

As insane as that is, Kobe outscored Billups by just 8 points in that series despite taking FIFTY SIX more shots :oldlol:

And for all the flack he gets for his chucking in that series, what's crazy to me is Kobe played 46 minutes a night and averaged less than 3 rebounds per game. I realize that rebounding is not his top priority or responsibility, but here's a guy who averaged 5-8 rebounds in virtually every series of his career, yet he gets less rebounds than Derek Fisher despite playing 130 more minutes in the series.

Damn, that's crazy that Fisher averaged more boards than Kobe.
I just noticed that Luke Walton averaged more assists than Kobe that series, despite playing literally less than half the minutes per game.

The more you dig into the 2004 finals, the worse Kobe's abysmal performance looks. Truly astonishing how pathetic it was.

[Sulico]

He led an expansion franchise raptors to a championship despite playing with a bunch of role players who have never won anything in their lifes like lowry, gasol, siakam.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqshE8_I8-A

Kawhi just stopped playing for SAS, his 1st team. After 1 year of holding his own franchise as a hostage he left hated by everybody.

Then he became the 1st superstar that left team that just won championship. This time not hated, but definitely not loved by anybody.

Then he watched as his team broke down mentally in the bubble and instead of leading them, he broke down himself, and far worse than his teammates.

And then in the next year playoffs, when Kawhi went down, his team finally bonded and didn't loose a step in that series without him. The lack of talent showed next round, as Kawhi is one of the most talented players for sure, but his team finally played hard, 1st time since Kawhi came around.

Kawhi Leonard is amazing player, but he is, without question, the worst leader EVER.

If I had to choose vocal leader for my team between Kawhi and one of those guys from 70-80s that were letting their teammates snort coke in the locker room, I would really have to think about it and probably not choose Kawhi.

[Phoenix]

yeah but he never has those big averages vs the best teams. just those crap finals eastern representatives



So Kobe must have dropped monster numbers on those crappy ECFs representatives. Let's see:

2000: 16ppg/37%
2001: 25ppg/42%
2002: 27ppg/ 55% ( yay, a 50% shooting series :applause:)

[RRR3]

So Kobe must have dropped monster numbers on those crappy ECFs representatives. Let's see:

2000: 16ppg/37%
2001: 25ppg/42%
2002: 27ppg/ 55% ( yay, a 50% shooting series :applause:)
He ha a 41% TS in that series lmaoooooo. Has to be in the running for WOAT finals performance for a superstar that kind of efficiency is unfathomably bad. Even LeBron in 2007 was significantly more efficient and he is known for being inefficient in that series for ****s sake :lol

[ralph_i_el]

Kawhi at his absolute best in his prime is comparable to what Jordan did for 10 years. Kawhi can turn up his play to all time great level. The knock on him is that he hasn't done it for that long (coming up as a role player in a dynasty), and then injuries have taken half his prime away. Still, it's a very short list of guys who can hit his level of impact on winning games.

He just hasn't sustained that peak level of play for long enough, or consistently enough to be in the conversation with MJ.

20 years from now we'll be watching some Kawhi-Luka games from the last two playoffs on whatever they're calling Hardwood Classics after WW3.

[Vino24]

Kenny has 88 posts in this thread lolol

[Phoenix]

Kenny has 88 posts in this thread lolol

Gotta maintain that 42ppd rate until this account is banned in a few days.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi's never scored 37 points past the 2nd round. In fact outside of the Philly series he's never had a single 37 point game in 7 of his 8 2nd round series

732 points on 62% TS is the greatest title scoring run in playoff history. If you can name one that is better, please show me

[HBK_Kliq_2]

yeah but he never has those big averages vs the best teams. just those crap finals eastern representatives

against portland, sanantonio and sacramento he never did that. in fact a lot of the time it was me doing most of the damage. especially against sanantonio

i think against the nets we coulda fed derek fisher for 37 a night

i coulda got all the shots vs philly and me/shaq coulda scored equally and still beat indiana. shaq just knew that the finals mvp would boost his legacy so he gunned for it

Shaq in the playoffs averaged over 25PPG in seven different seasons. Duncan did it ONCE

[SouBeachTalents]

732 points on 62% TS is the greatest title scoring run in playoff history. If you can name one that is better, please show me
1992 Jordan. I'll take scoring 27 more points in 2 less games over having a higher TS%, esp when Jordan was still scoring efficiently

[HBK_Kliq_2]

1992 Jordan. I'll take scoring 27 more points in 2 less games over having a higher TS%, esp when Jordan was still scoring efficiently

That's close but not quite, sorry pal.

5% TS worse. 1990s era wasn't even much tougher defensively either, it wasn't like it was 99-2004.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi's 2nd and 3rd rounds were also a lot better then Jordan's in 1992. Also played a much better team in the finals led by Curry who is massively superior to Drexler.

[SouBeachTalents]

That's close but not quite, sorry pal.

5% TS worse. 1990s era wasn't even much tougher defensively either, it wasn't like it was 99-2004.
The 90's were significantly more difficult defensively than 2019. But the entire premise of your argument is so retarded I refuse to believe you're incapable of comprehending it. You're literally rewarding Kawhi for losing more games, hence why you stick to total, not average, where at least a dozen or so guys have Kawhi beat handedly.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kawhi's 2nd and 3rd rounds were also a lot better then Jordan's in 1992. Also played a much better team in the finals led by Curry who is massively superior to Drexler.
Didn't you just make a thread calling Curry the most overrated player of all time :lol

[DoctorP]

skills = MJ > Kawhi
rings = MJ > Kawhi
production = MJ > Kawhi

literally zero argument.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The 90's were significantly more difficult defensively than 2019. But the entire premise of your argument is so retarded I refuse to believe you're incapable of comprehending it. You're literally rewarding Kawhi for losing more games, hence why you stick to total, not average, where at least a dozen or so guys have Kawhi beat handedly.

total points = showing the resilience of their scoring, game after game without any breaks in between. These are human beings after all.

otherwise, we can just look at scoring runs like durant when he was on mega stacked teams.

Do you get it now?

and no 1990s wasn't any tougher defensively then 2019. Warriors\Rockets that year had a 116 offensive rating. Guess what Bulls had in 1992? A 116 offensive rating.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1992_ratings.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019_ratings.html

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Didn't you just make a thread calling Curry the most overrated player of all time :lol

yes but he's still tiers better then drexler.

[G0ATbe]

I mean if you let kawhi be guarded by the guys who guarded MJ this wouldn’t even be a debate. Imagine what kawhi would do to spud webb:roll:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

skills = MJ > Kawhi
rings = MJ > Kawhi
production = MJ > Kawhi

literally zero argument.

I think the argument for Kawhi is quite simple really.

"Bigger, stronger, better".

It's like Jordan is those old fashioned TVS that you would watch in the 1990's.

This is jordan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNAG005hE0Q


This is Kawhi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP8_BhNKhko

[DoctorP]

this is you:

https://www.fhcanada.org/2018-GG-WL-Piece-of-Crap.jpg

[HBK_Kliq_2]

this is you:

https://www.fhcanada.org/2018-GG-WL-Piece-of-Crap.jpg

I figured that's the only argument your tiny IQ could come up with.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

skills = MJ > Kawhi
rings = MJ > Kawhi
production = MJ > Kawhi

literally zero argument.

retired NFL players brains with CTE > your brain

[HBK_Kliq_2]

https://i.imgur.com/OWkTqIM.gif

insufficient brain size to respond with intelligence i see.

[DoctorP]

insufficient brain size to respond with intelligence i see.


https://i.imgur.com/OWkTqIM.gif

[TheCorporation]

Bump

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Yup.

KAWHI is better then MJ slightly

He's also better then kobe to a severe degree, massive upgrade on scoring efficiency and shot selection