So the only person punished for the Afghanistan pullout debacle... [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Patrick Chewing

09-28-2021, 08:39 PM

Was the officer that called out for accountability from his superiors after the deaths of 13 servicemen. He recorded a video and was subsequently fired from his post and will lose all his benefits and military pension. Now he sits in jail. That's right, he's in jail for speaking out.

https://youtu.be/eDNVUtIjwsE

https://abc45.com/news/nation-world/marine-officer-critical-of-military-leaders-reportedly-locked-up-after-violating-gag-order

Gotta love this country!

DoctorP

09-28-2021, 08:42 PM

https://i.imgur.com/OWkTqIM.gif

oldtimer28

09-28-2021, 08:53 PM

Nanners

09-29-2021, 01:56 AM

They also punished that afghan civilian who worked for a US NGO and his 7 children

diamenz

09-29-2021, 02:06 AM

They also punished that afghan civilian who worked for a US NGO and his 7 children

true, but that type of punishment has been getting doled out for the last twenty years, nanners. you know that. are you in favor of joe's afghani withdrawal?

Nanners

09-29-2021, 02:15 AM

true, but that type of punishment has been getting doled out for the last twenty years, nanners. you know that. are you in favor of joe's afghani withdrawal?

Of course I am in favor of the withdrawal, I want us to withdraw from all of our bullshit wars. That said I am not in favor of how idiotic and incompetent the planning and execution was for our withdrawl ... and I am definitely not in favor of the murder of that afghan family, or any of the other countless innocent afghan lives we have stolen in the past 20 years.

Lakers Legend#32

09-29-2021, 02:19 AM

The persons who should be held accountable are the ones who got us into this war we knew we could not win and knew it would end exactly the way it did.

diamenz

09-29-2021, 02:26 AM

Of course I am in favor of the withdrawal, I want us to withdraw from all of our bullshit wars. That said I am not in favor of how idiotic and incompetent the planning and execution was for our withdrawl ... and I am definitely not in favor of the murder of that afghan family, or any of the other countless innocent afghan lives we have stolen in the past 20 years.

that's the price we pay for illegally occupying a country for twenty years. to say that any other president overseeing the pull out, or any other timeline of us pulling out would have been significantly better is just playing politics.

Nanners

09-29-2021, 02:36 AM

that's the price we pay for illegally occupying a country for twenty years. to say that any other president overseeing the pull out, or any other timeline of us pulling out would have been significantly better is just playing politics.

This is laughably bullshit. We had 20 years to plan our withdrawal, and leaving the Taliban almost $100 billion worth of weapons/equipment/vehicles while also failing to evacuate our own people is preposterous and inexcusable.

diamenz

09-29-2021, 03:05 AM

This is laughably bullshit. We had 20 years to plan our withdrawal, and leaving the Taliban almost $100 billion worth of weapons/equipment/vehicles while also failing to evacuate our own people is preposterous and inexcusable.

i understand that. let me put it this way... in the timeline that we DID recently have, it was either pull out in that moment and live with the consequences, or stay and get ourselves back into a hot war as the truce with the taliban expired; losing potentially even more american troops (more than 13 :rolleyes:) and staying for another X amount of years.

besides, those taliban dolts don't even know how to use the majority of that equipment nor do they have the resources for their upkeep.

theman93

09-29-2021, 10:55 AM

i understand that. let me put it this way... in the timeline that we DID recently have, it was either pull out in that moment and live with the consequences, or stay and get ourselves back into a hot war as the truce with the taliban expired; losing potentially even more american troops (more than 13 :rolleyes:) and staying for another X amount of years.

besides, those taliban dolts don't even know how to use the majority of that equipment nor do they have the resources for their upkeep.

I adamantly disagree.

We did not have to pull out in that moment. Biden had already broken the truce with the Taliban to exit by May 1st, and there's no reason it couldn't have been done again if it meant ensuring our citizens and allies were safely evacuated.

We also would not have had to live with said consequences if the exit strategy was competent. If the goal was to execute our exit strategy as hastily as possible to meet the exit date, then why did we completely abandon our largest air base in Bagram? The Bagram airbase was our largest asset as it housed thousands of troops, had multiple run ways, held some 5,000 terrorist prisoners, and was secure unlike Kabul's airport....and we abandoned it, literally in the middle of the night, without even telling the Afghan commander. That's unfathomably stupid.

To say we should have pulled out as we did is total bullshit. I mean you literally had Glenn f*cking Beck sending in aircraft to evacuate citizens because it was that much of a colossal failure.

bladefd

09-29-2021, 01:12 PM

i understand that. let me put it this way... in the timeline that we DID recently have, it was either pull out in that moment and live with the consequences, or stay and get ourselves back into a hot war as the truce with the taliban expired; losing potentially even more american troops (more than 13 :rolleyes:) and staying for another X amount of years.

besides, those taliban dolts don't even know how to use the majority of that equipment nor do they have the resources for their upkeep.

They are playing straight up politics, refusing to admit that our generals/pentagon did not want us to leave. The top generals are on the record yesterday saying that they wanted us to keep our troops there for lord knows how long. Biden lying about that was wrong, but it was still the right decision to leave. We could not stick around in that hell.

Sure, evacuation could have been done better, but let's not act as if the generals saying to stick around indefinitely is some "Gotcha!" moment. Biden lied, but it's still his decision whether to stay or leave - he made the right call to leave. We had 13 deaths - had we listened to the generals, it would have been hundreds more dead soldiers as the taliban escalates the situation beyond the deadline.

j3lademaster

09-29-2021, 02:38 PM

The persons who should be held accountable are the ones who got us into this war we knew we could not win and knew it would end exactly the way it did.I want to agree with you on this. Even though I was too young to vote at the time, with full hindsight looking back I feel I had the correct opinion about the war. But we are a democracy after all, and the war at the time was hugely popular.

j3lademaster

09-29-2021, 02:43 PM

They are playing straight up politics, refusing to admit that our generals/pentagon did not want us to leave. The top generals are on the record yesterday saying that they wanted us to keep our troops there for lord knows how long. Biden lying about that was wrong, but it was still the right decision to leave. We could not stick around in that hell.

Sure, evacuation could have been done better, but let's not act as if the generals saying to stick around indefinitely is some "Gotcha!" moment. Biden lied, but it's still his decision whether to stay or leave - he made the right call to leave. We had 13 deaths - had we listened to the generals, it would have been hundreds more dead soldiers as the taliban escalates the situation beyond the deadline.I wish people could be more consistent. I was never a fan of Trump, but I supported him in saying he wanted troops out by the 2020 election.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/trump-wants-pull-all-troops-out-afghanistan-2020-election-n1038651

I think pulling out was the right move. I think we should have left Afghanistan yesterday. I think the war itself should have never happened, and I still blame Biden more for voting for the war in the first place.

Patrick Chewing

09-29-2021, 02:43 PM

They are playing straight up politics, refusing to admit that our generals/pentagon did not want us to leave. The top generals are on the record yesterday saying that they wanted us to keep our troops there for lord knows how long. Biden lying about that was wrong, but it was still the right decision to leave. We could not stick around in that hell.

Sure, evacuation could have been done better, but let's not act as if the generals saying to stick around indefinitely is some "Gotcha!" moment. Biden lied, but it's still his decision whether to stay or leave - he made the right call to leave. We had 13 deaths - had we listened to the generals, it would have been hundreds more dead soldiers as the taliban escalates the situation beyond the deadline.

You're an idiot if you think that by leaving anywhere between 2500-3500 troops behind in Afghanistan would have resulted in more troop deaths than the 13 that died IN ONE DAY as a result of Biden's incompetence. There's a reason why troop deaths were at an all-time low in that region. It was because we had 2500-3500 troops in the region....DUH! :hammerhead:

bladefd

09-29-2021, 07:06 PM

You're an idiot if you think that by leaving anywhere between 2500-3500 troops behind in Afghanistan would have resulted in more troop deaths than the 13 that died IN ONE DAY as a result of Biden's incompetence. There's a reason why troop deaths were at an all-time low in that region. It was because we had 2500-3500 troops in the region....DUH! :hammerhead:

Hundreds of troops would have died over the next couple of months if we stayed beyond September 1st with a contingency of 2,500-4,500 soldiers. Our deadline was August 31st and Taliban knew it. They were getting restless since July, beginning a push to overtake Afghanistan. Imagine if on August 1st, we said we are not leaving? Do you think Taliban thugs & terrorists have just accepted that without escalating their attacks on our soldiers? Then we of course respond and then they respond. Next thing you know, we are right back in the thick of things in that hellhole..

Patrick Chewing

09-29-2021, 08:59 PM

Hundreds of troops would have died over the next couple of months if we stayed beyond September 1st with a contingency of 2,500-4,500 soldiers. Our deadline was August 31st and Taliban knew it. They were getting restless since July, beginning a push to overtake Afghanistan. Imagine if on August 1st, we said we are not leaving? Do you think Taliban thugs & terrorists have just accepted that without escalating their attacks on our soldiers? Then we of course respond and then they respond. Next thing you know, we are right back in the thick of things in that hellhole..

Hundreds of troops?? How?

The Taliban are weak and their numbers depleted. They weren't going to do shit had our troops remained.

And now, because of the incompetent man you helped get elected, the Taliban has a formidable for emdue to them having all our technology and weapons that we left behind. Now, they'll terrorize Afghans and kill thousands over the years with OUR weapons.

j3lademaster

09-29-2021, 09:12 PM

Now, they'll terrorize Afghans and kill thousands over the years with OUR weapons.We should have, in the very least, bombed our weapon storage. If we're not taking it with us don't let it fall in the wrong hands.

bladefd

09-30-2021, 01:57 AM

Hundreds of troops?? How?

The Taliban are weak and their numbers depleted. They weren't going to do shit had our troops remained.

And now, because of the incompetent man you helped get elected, the Taliban has a formidable for emdue to them having all our technology and weapons that we left behind. Now, they'll terrorize Afghans and kill thousands over the years with OUR weapons.

One terrorist with a bomb on his chest took out a bunch of people. Those attacks would continue. Why would you even argue for keeping our troops there? We had to leave.

Axe

09-30-2021, 03:17 AM

One terrorist with a bomb on his chest took out a bunch of people. Those attacks would continue. Why would you even argue for keeping our troops there? We had to leave.
Damn biden if they leave. Damn him if they don't. :(

Patrick Chewing

09-30-2021, 10:49 AM

One terrorist with a bomb on his chest took out a bunch of people. Those attacks would continue. Why would you even argue for keeping our troops there? We had to leave.

You're not that bright, and this isn't the first time I've explained cause and effect to a simpleton such as yourself. There are no terrorist bomber attacks if the troops had stayed behind, or had we evacuated everyone safely and securely prior to leaving ourselves. This attack happened because we created a vacuum. And because we left in such haste, we had to send troops back into the region to die. Troops that would have never died in the first place had this evacuation been done with better planning and better strategy. You're hypothesizing that a terrorist attack would have happened anyway, and the data shows that violent attacks like that were few and far between over the last several years.

bladefd

09-30-2021, 03:20 PM

You're not that bright, and this isn't the first time I've explained cause and effect to a simpleton such as yourself. There are no terrorist bomber attacks if the troops had stayed behind, or had we evacuated everyone safely and securely prior to leaving ourselves. This attack happened because we created a vacuum. And because we left in such haste, we had to send troops back into the region to die. Troops that would have never died in the first place had this evacuation been done with better planning and better strategy. You're hypothesizing that a terrorist attack would have happened anyway, and the data shows that violent attacks like that were few and far between over the last several years.

By keeping a few thousand troops there indefinitely after our official deadline to leave would continue that vacuum for the suicide bombers and other taliban thugs to keep coming at us.

You are either for full evacuation (including our troops) or with the generals to not pull our troops.

The generals also did not say that they would have evacuated our troops last. That is us saying it and in hindsight, which is never wrong. Hindsight is always correct. Our generals wanted to stay there forever with a few thousand troops. That would also require us to continue with the air support as long as we stay there.

Some of you may be mixing up two different arguments.
1) Did you want us to stay there forever as our generals wanted or leave Afghanistan altogether as Biden wanted?
2) Would you have evacuated like Biden did or evacuated troops last like we think now in hindsight?

The generals only come into play with argument #1, not argument #2.

Patrick Chewing

09-30-2021, 03:40 PM

By keeping a few thousand troops there indefinitely after our official deadline to leave would continue that vacuum for the suicide bombers and other taliban thugs to keep coming at us.

That makes no sense. Our presence there only deterred those people from attacking us and the innocent civilians. Look at the numbers of troop casualties over the last 10 years.

How you argue against this point is beyond me, seeing as the Taliban is now BETTER armed than they were before since we left all our equipment there. They have OUR technology now. You should be furious about that instead of bickering about if, when, or how the troops should have left. You are supporting an event and a President that just made it easier for terrorists to carry out terrorist attacks across the globe. When you can understand that, then we know you've made progress.

Lakers Legend#32

09-30-2021, 05:05 PM