Florida's Covid Cases Have Declined 79% From Peak

[Cleverness]

Florida's Covid Cases (7-day average) Have Declined 79% From Peak about 6 weeks ago. (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/florida-covid-cases.html)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-s0q2PUcAAhZq1.jpg

Why did cases begin to surge right after 50% of adults in Florida became fully vaccinated on June 7th?

How did Florida bring the cases down 79% from their peak about 6 weeks ago?

[oldtimer28]

Florida's Covid Cases (7-day average) Have Declined 79% From Peak about 6 weeks ago. (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/florida-covid-cases.html)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-s0q2PUcAAhZq1.jpg

Why did cases begin to surge right after 50% of adults in Florida became fully vaccinated on June 7th?

How did Florida bring the cases down 79% from their peak about 6 weeks ago?



Great questions and graphic.

Extra question - what will this look like in the northern hemisphere during winter?

[diamenz]

Great questions and graphic.

Extra question - what will this look like in the northern hemisphere during winter?

great question.

[tontoz]

News flash, the Delta variant is very different from the original alpha. Ever heard of Delta? Bueller?

With the original alpha variant vaccinated people had a far less viral load than unvaccinated people. Once our vax rates went up then the mask rules and social distancing guidelines were relaxed.

Then the Delta variant hit over the summer. With Delta a vaccinated person has the same viral load as an unvaccinated person. Hence, vaccinated people can spread the virus just as easily as unvaccinated people.

This caught people by surprise. Delta hit just as social distancing guidelines were eased leading to a huge spike in cases. Once people realized what was going on with Delta people became more vigilant with social distancing. Same thing happened in Isreal.

New information leads to new guidelines. Of course you clowns aren't interested in the hearing the truth. You want to pull up old quotes and play gotcha so you can pretend you have a clue.

[Bronbron23]

Florida's Covid Cases (7-day average) Have Declined 79% From Peak about 6 weeks ago. (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/florida-covid-cases.html)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-s0q2PUcAAhZq1.jpg

Why did cases begin to surge right after 50% of adults in Florida became fully vaccinated on June 7th?

How did Florida bring the cases down 79% from their peak about 6 weeks ago?

Good question. I actually do believe the vaccine works as far as hospitalizations and deaths so it's surprising to see this stat. Only thing i can maybe see causing this that supports that vaccines work is that there's maybe a lag in there system when it comes to reporting cases. That's a guess and a reach though. Also maybe around that time florida loosened restrictions and had no face masks and social distancing? I don't know if that's case just playing devils advocate and wondering if there could be another factor that caused that spike. If not that's pretty crazy man. Isreal has seen a similar trend but there was other factors like getting rid of masks and social distancing that could of attributed some to the spike in cases. I don't think that factor is as significant as others like tontoz does but it definitely would be a variable that has to be accounted for although this may to be the case in florida.

[PistonsFan#21]

News flash, the Delta variant is very different from the original alpha. Ever heard of Delta? Bueller?

With the original alpha variant vaccinated people had a far less viral load than unvaccinated people. Once our vax rates went up then the mask rules and social distancing guidelines were relaxed.

Then the Delta variant hit over the summer. With Delta a vaccinated person has the same viral load as an unvaccinated person. Hence, vaccinated people can spread the virus just as easily as unvaccinated people.

This caught people by surprise. Delta hit just as social distancing guidelines were eased leading to a huge spike in cases. Once people realized what was going on with Delta people became more vigilant with social distancing. Same thing happened in Isreal.

New information leads to new guidelines. Of course you clowns aren't interested in the hearing the truth. You want to pull up old quotes and play gotcha so you can pretend you have a clue.

I thought Florida dropped all their mask mandates and covid restrictions measures back in September 2020, before the vaccines were even rolled out.

What new guideline did Florida adopt after the Delta variant hit?

[Bronbron23]

News flash, the Delta variant is very different from the original alpha. Ever heard of Delta? Bueller?

With the original alpha variant vaccinated people had a far less viral load than unvaccinated people. Once our vax rates went up then the mask rules and social distancing guidelines were relaxed.

Then the Delta variant hit over the summer. With Delta a vaccinated person has the same viral load as an unvaccinated person. Hence, vaccinated people can spread the virus just as easily as unvaccinated people.

This caught people by surprise. Delta hit just as social distancing guidelines were eased leading to a huge spike in cases. Once people realized what was going on with Delta people became more vigilant with social distancing. Same thing happened in Isreal.

New information leads to new guidelines. Of course you clowns aren't interested in the hearing the truth. You want to pull up old quotes and play gotcha so you can pretend you have a clue.
See this is what tontoz and the cdc and fauci do. They come out and say all this b.s about the delta when it first came out even when they had no evidence if it was true or not. All i heard when delta first came out was the vaccines are just as effective for delta and the vaccines are more important then ever with delta because it's stronger and spreads faster. They said this shit even though they had no idea if it was true. Now when it turns out it was a load of shit they hide behind their incompetence by saying the virus and information changed.

Don't listen to this guy. Like fauci he's either a liar or at the very least irresponsible with his words. They intentionally or ignorantly unintentionally spread misinformation just like some antivaxers who they judge so harshly. They're hypocrites and are just as much part of the problem as some antivaxers.

[tontoz]

I thought Florida dropped all their mask mandates and covid restrictions measures back in September 2020, before the vaccines were even rolled out.

What new guideline did Florida adopt after the Delta variant hit?



As of May 3, 2021, Gov. Ron DeSantis lifted any and all mask and face covering ordinances still in effect.

That came months after the Governor put an order in place blocking enforcement of masks. Businesses such as theme parks can still request face coverings be used or require masks to gain entry. But in the state of Florida, no government requires the use of masks, and a new law in place July 1 severely limits the ability of governments to take further action in future emergencies. T

he potential still exists for legal challenges to the law or the Governor’s action.

In the past, President Joe Biden hinted at a national mandate for masks when he took office on Jan. 20, but ultimately just encouraged use of masks as a patriotic duty. A significant number of Florida jurisdictions at various points since March 1, 2020, when the coronavirus first surfaced in the state, required masks in public and at designated businesses.

Even after DeSantis moved Florida to Phase Three of a state reopening, which he originally said would preempt any fines and punishments attached to local rules, many mask ordinances were implemented and stood up to court challenges. Many jurisdictions continue to have fine ordinances on the books even though the penalties are not being levied and cannot be collected.



https://floridapolitics.com/archives/342364-beyond-the-veil-what-face-mask-requirements-are-in-place-in-florida/

Your timeline is a little off.


The new guideliness weren't from Florida they were from the CDC.



WASHINGTON (NewsNation Now/WFLA) — The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says fully-vaccinated Americans who live in areas with “substantial and high” transmission should wear masks in indoor public spaces in the wake of rising COVID-19 cases.

CDC Director Rochelle Walensky said they had reviewed new data in recent days that showed fully-vaccinated individuals could spread the delta variant more easily than previous versions of COVID-19.

“This new science is worrisome and unfortunately warrants an update to our recommendations,” she said on a conference call with reporters.


https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/all-florida-counties-should-mask-up-indoors-new-cdc-guidance-says/

[tontoz]

See this is what tontoz and the cdc and fauci do. They come out and say all this b.s about the delta when it first came out even when they had no evidence if it was true or not. All i heard when delta first came out was the vaccines are just as effective for delta and the vaccines are more important then ever with delta because it's stronger and spreads faster. They said this shit even though they had no idea if it was true. Now when it turns out it was a load of shit they hide behind their incompetence by saying the virus and information changed.

Don't listen to this guy. Like fauci he's either a liar or at the very least irresponsible with his words. They intentionally or ignorantly unintentionally spread misinformation just like some antivaxers who they judge so harshly. They're hypocrites and are just as much part of the problem as some antivaxers.



Why don't you post some quotes where i, or anyone else, said what you claim we said? You can't.

Your inability to understand basic English isn't my problem.

[PistonsFan#21]

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/342364-beyond-the-veil-what-face-mask-requirements-are-in-place-in-florida/

Your timeline is a little off.


The new guideliness weren't from Florida they were from the CDC.



https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/all-florida-counties-should-mask-up-indoors-new-cdc-guidance-says/

I don't think my timeline was off according to this article:
September 25th, 2020

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis says he is lifting all restrictions on businesses statewide that were imposed to control the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19. Most significantly, that means restaurants and bars in the state can now operate at full capacity.

Up to now, restaurants and bars in Florida could serve customers indoors at 50% of legal occupancy. DeSantis said his new executive order lifts that restriction statewide, though local governments can keep additional limits in place if they're justified for health or economic reasons.

"Every business has the right to operate," DeSantis said. "Some of the locals can do reasonable regulations. But you can't just say no."

DeSantis also said his order would stop cities and counties from fining people for not wearing mandated face coverings. He said fines and other penalties imposed so far would be suspended.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/09/25/916969969/floridas-governor-lifts-all-covid-19-restrictions-on-businesses-statewide

But even if there was even more Covid restrictions dropped in May 2021 during the middle of the delta wave i don't understand how that could be an explanation for the 79% drop from peak numbers. Shouldn't it be the opposite? Florida clearly didn' t give a shit about those CDC guidelines so what's the explanation here?

[Patrick Chewing]

Move to Florida if you want to be free. Stay in Liberal strongholds if you want to be a slave.

[tontoz]

I don't think my timeline was off according to this article:
September 25th, 2020

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/09/25/916969969/floridas-governor-lifts-all-covid-19-restrictions-on-businesses-statewide

But even if there was even more Covid restrictions dropped in May 2021 during the middle of the delta wave i don't understand how that could be an explanation for the 79% drop from peak numbers. Shouldn't it be the opposite? Florida clearly didn' t give a shit about those CDC guidelines so what's the explanation here?

Yeah that is an old article not to mention that it ignores all the local guidelines that were in place which counties can change at random times.

An example from the article i posted earlier.



Charlotte County

County Commissioners on July 28 voted to direct all residents to wear masks in public places throughout the unincorporated county where social distancing is not possible, Fox 4 reports. The resolution came weeks after the county shot down a prior mask mandate.



The CDC guidelines hit in late July. Remember that a person can have Covid and symptoms typically won't show up until 10-14 days later if they show up at all.

just because Desantis doesn't care about CDC guidelines doesn't mean the rest of the state is ignoring them.

[Off the Court]

Florida health officials have reported a 60% rise in COVID-19 cases, and hospitals are reporting that 95% of COVID-19 patients are not fully vaccinated.
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/07/scicheck-covid-19-surges-among-unvaccinated-in-florida-contrary-to-baseless-claims/

It's Delta infecting the unvaccinated although I am sure you won't accept that as reality.

[Bronbron23]

Why don't you post some quotes where i, or anyone else, said what you claim we said? You can't.

Your inability to understand basic English isn't my problem.

You want me to find a qoute where fauci, the media and the cdc spread misinformation? No problem here you go that'san easy one they do it all the time. It will be harder to find yours because we had alot of back and forth and i can't recall exactly where you said it but i'll find it and post yours after. Here is fauci, the cdc director and the media either lying straight up being misleading to the point where they're spreading misinformation.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5507400001. Go to the second and third answer from fauci where he says it's important to surround children in schools with people who are vaccinated to keep them safe. This is an example of something fauci does all the time. He dosn't come straight out and lie and say the vaccines reduce the spread but he says something like this that heavily suggests hat the vaccines will stop or reduce the spread. I could find dozens of lines like this from fauci he does it all the time.

Here's one from the cdc director. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vfFJXp1IeKk she does the same thing as fauci. She's spreading misinformation by making people think vaccinated people won't spread the virus. This is no different than lying. She also has done this dozens of time.

Here is one of good ol cnn spreading misinformation which they do often and well. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NsbCljunhCk this is funny because it shows how fauci can flip flop depending on the question and the interviewer. When it's his lapdogs at cnn he's usual more bold with spreading misinformation. When it's a interviewer that asks better questions he's more careful in how he does it.

It's this misinformation that has lead the media, doctors and people like you to spread these lies. It's funny because pro vaccinated are always saying "listen to you doctors" but peoples doctors aren't doing the studies. They have no idea when it comes to the spread of the virus. They're taking notes from fauci and the cdc who have clearly been lying or at the very least been wrong.

Did you actually think i couldn't find this shit? Fauci, the cdc and especially the mefia do it alot:facepalm

[tontoz]

You want me to find a qoute where fauci, the media and the cdc spread misinformation? No problem here you go that'san easy one they do it all the time. It will be harder to find yours because we had alot of back and forth and i can't recall exactly where you said it but i'll find it and post yours after. Here is fauci, the cdc director and the media either lying straight up being misleading to the point where they're spreading misinformation.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5507400001. Go to the second and third answer from fauci where he says it's important to surround children in schools with people who are vaccinated to keep them safe. This is an example of something fauci does all the time. He dosn't come straight out and lie and say the vaccines reduce the spread but he says something like this that heavily suggests hat the vaccines will stop or reduce the spread. I could find dozens of lines like this from fauci he does it all the time.

Here's one from the cdc director. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vfFJXp1IeKk she does the same thing as fauci. She's spreading misinformation by making people think vaccinated people won't spread the virus. This is no different than lying. She also has done this dozens of time.

Here is one of good ol cnn spreading misinformation which they do often and well. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NsbCljunhCk this is funny because it shows how fauci can flip flop depending on the question and the interviewer. When it's his lapdogs at cnn he's usual more bold with spreading misinformation. When it's a interviewer that asks better questions he's more careful in how he does it.

It's this misinformation that has lead the media, doctors and people like you to spread these lies. It's funny because pro vaccinated are always saying "listen to you doctors" but peoples doctors aren't doing the studies. They have no idea when it comes to the spread of the virus. They're taking notes from fauci and the cdc who have clearly been lying or at the very least been wrong.

Did you actually think i couldn't find this shit? Fauci, the cdc and especially the mefia do it alot:facepalm


First one with Fauci, where exactly does he say that vaccinated people can't spread Delta? I must have missed it. Surrounding them with vaccinated people will protect them from getting Alpha. In that same answer he also said this.



but getting everybody to wear a mask, you're going to get pushback from that. Hence the anti-mask mandates that you're seeing in certain states. My feeling is that I would rather have a child be a little bit uncomfortable with a mask on and be healthy, than a comfortable child without a mask in an (intensive care unit).



2nd vid she says that the CDC isn't recommending that vaccinated people wear masks near the end of the video. Obviously that is a problem with the Delta variant since we know vaccinated people can easily spread the virus. The video was from July 15. The CDC pivoted not long after that. I don't know the exact day that their testing found out that the viral load for Delta was so high. The interview i found with Fauci where he talked about this was July 30.



Dr. Anthony Fauci Talks About 'Alarming' New Data On Breakthrough Infections


Emphasis on NEW

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/30/1022909501/dr-anthony-fauci-talks-about-alarming-new-data-on-breakthrough-infections


CNN eh i really dont pay much attention to them. However in the vid Fauci specifically says masks should be mandatory for schools so obviously he doesn't think vaccines alone are the solution.

He also said he didn't really hear DeSantis that well. However we have to keep in mind there are two variants. Transmission is much lower with the Alpha variant among vaccinated people. Not so with Delta. I didnt hear him specifically mention one or the other. His comments would be correct for Alpha, not for Delta.

Obviously the vaccine is effective at protecting from severe outcomes on both.

If they said (after July 30) that the vaccine helps prevent transmission of Delta then that would be clear misinformation. July 30 is the earliest date i can find where they talked about how easily Delta can be transmitted by vaxed people.

[Bronbron23]

First one with Fauci, where exactly does he say that vaccinated people can't spread Delta? I must have missed it. Surrounding them with vaccinated people will protect them from getting Alpha. In that same answer he also said this.




2nd vid she says that the CDC isn't recommending that vaccinated people wear masks near the end of the video. Obviously that is a problem with the Delta variant since we know vaccinated people can easily spread the virus. The video was from July 15. The CDC pivoted not long after that. I don't know the exact day that their testing found out that the viral load for Delta was so high. The interview i found with Fauci where he talked about this was July 30.



Emphasis on NEW

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/30/1022909501/dr-anthony-fauci-talks-about-alarming-new-data-on-breakthrough-infections


CNN eh i really dont pay much attention to them. However in the vid Fauci specifically says masks should be mandatory for schools so obviously he doesn't think vaccines alone are the solution.

He also said he didn't really hear DeSantis that well. However we have to keep in mind there are two variants. Transmission is much lower with the Alpha variant among vaccinated people. Not so with Delta. I didnt hear him specifically mention one or the other. His comments would be correct for Alpha, not for Delta.

Obviously the vaccine is effective at protecting from severe outcomes on both.

If they said (after July 30) that the vaccine helps prevent transmission of Delta then that would be clear misinformation. July 30 is the earliest date i can find where they talked about how easily Delta can be transmitted by vaxed people.

See man this is what you do. You just totally ignore common sense and implications. Here is his qoute from that first article. "One is to surround the children with people who are vaccinated. Get as many teachers as possible vaccinated; get anybody who is anywhere near a child, in what should be the protected environment of a school" this was in response to the interviewer asking how can we keep children safe when going back to schools. This can only imply that people (teachers in this case) should get vaccinated to protect others(children in this case). That implies that the vaccine stops or significantly reduces infection and the spread of covid. The second video go to 1:23. The cdc director says the same thing as fauci. That you can protect children by surrounding them with as many vaccinated people posible. This makes the same implication. And they mention delta before that so they're clearly talking about delta. All 3 that i gave are after delta hit us but it shouldn't matter because delta came out in December and was spreading through other countries first so i would hope the us was paying attention and studying it way before july 30th. Given there incompetence i wouldn't be shocked if they weren't.

This is what you've done with alot of our arguments. I'll say something. You disagree and ask for evidence. I give it and then you turn around and play dumb and act like whatever the qoute or words are aren't clear. I just gave you 3 instances where the media fauci and the cdc spread misinformation and lied or at the very least were wrong. Somehow you'll just ignore it or act like they didn't even though it's undeniable.

[tontoz]

Once again you see what you want to see.

If you want to criticize fauci for not specifying the difference between Alpha and Delta then that.is a valid criticism. His comments are correct for Alpha, not for Delta, as I said near the end of my post.

RIF

As for the 2nd vid I don't think she was aware on July 15 that Delta was spread so easily among vaccinated people. That is why they weren't recommending masks for people who were vaccinated at that time.The earliest mention of this I could find was July 30 when fauci explained the high viral load among vaxed people.

That is when the CDC changed their mask guidance.

[fsvr54]

I live in Florida (even though I'm getting the **** out soon) and everyone is fine. Life is as normal here in Miami.

[Bronbron23]

Why don't you post some quotes where i, or anyone else, said what you claim we said? You can't.

Your inability to understand basic English isn't my problem.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497275-Anti-Vaxxers-are-Low-IQ-Prove-me-Wrong/page63

Here's a link to that gives a convo we had towards the end of another thread. Again you don't come right and say it but based on your words it's pretty clear what your saying. You argued with me for half that page when i kept bringing up how the vaccine isn't effecting infections and the spread. Most logical people are gonna interpret that as you disagreed.

But no like fauci you didn't come right out and say it so you can hide behind that if yoy want. It really dosn't matter. The whole point of the original thread that we were arguing on was that people who haven't got the vaccine are low iq and that's clearly a load of shit. I and others have pointed out lots of legit rational reasons on why alot of people don't need to be vaccinated.

[tontoz]

Once again you don't quote me. You do realize that this.forum has a quote button, right?

:oldlol:

[theman93]

It must have been the mask and vaccine mandates

Jk Florida doesn't have those :lol

[n00bie]

Florida's Covid Cases (7-day average) Have Declined 79% From Peak about 6 weeks ago. (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/florida-covid-cases.html)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-s0q2PUcAAhZq1.jpg

Why did cases begin to surge right after 50% of adults in Florida became fully vaccinated on June 7th?

How did Florida bring the cases down 79% from their peak about 6 weeks ago?

Another good question. How many cases would there have been without vaccines?

Nobody knows the answer to these questions.

[Cleverness]

News flash, the Delta variant is very different from the original alpha. Ever heard of Delta? Bueller?

With the original alpha variant vaccinated people had a far less viral load than unvaccinated people. Once our vax rates went up then the mask rules and social distancing guidelines were relaxed.

Then the Delta variant hit over the summer. With Delta a vaccinated person has the same viral load as an unvaccinated person. Hence, vaccinated people can spread the virus just as easily as unvaccinated people.

This caught people by surprise. Delta hit just as social distancing guidelines were eased leading to a huge spike in cases. Once people realized what was going on with Delta people became more vigilant with social distancing. Same thing happened in Isreal.

New information leads to new guidelines. Of course you clowns aren't interested in the hearing the truth. You want to pull up old quotes and play gotcha so you can pretend you have a clue.

1) When did the Delta variant arrive in the US? Florida?

2) The governor ended most of his restrictions in September 2020. When exactly were the social distancing & mask guidelines "relaxed" in Florida? Were they not "relaxed" in 2020 or pre-June 2021? Also, when did they close & open schools in 2020? 2021?

3) What evidence do you have that people became more vigilant with social distancing in Florida?

4) How did Florida bring the cases down 79% from their peak about 6 weeks ago?

[Cleverness]

I live in Florida (even though I'm getting the **** out soon) and everyone is fine. Life is as normal here in Miami.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAkFVJiVQAAnW1W?format=png&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAkFVJiVQAAnW1W?format=png&name=medium

Looks like restaurant visits have been fairly consistent since end of May 2020 & since then peaking in March 2021. Bar visits look about the same.

[fsvr54]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAkFVJiVQAAnW1W?format=png&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAkFVJiVQAAnW1W?format=png&name=medium

Looks like restaurant visits have been fairly consistent since end of May 2020 & since then peaking in March 2021. Bar visits look about the same.

The restaurants and bars are PACKED on the nighly here, it's insane. The city seems busier than it's ever been. Every few license plates is a NY one. Never seen so many New Yorkers in my life (other than when I've been in NYC lol).

[Cleverness]

Another good question. How many cases would there have been without vaccines?

Nobody knows the answer to these questions.

Good question. I think we should swear in and cross examine the supposed Experts and ask these questions.

One thing we know for sure, is that Vermont is experiencing a record high in new cases while simultaneously being the #1 vaccinated state in the US.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAeIZnYVgAEc1vw.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAeIZnYVgAEc1vw.jpg

Another thing we saw was Covid cases in India declining 81% from peak with 3.5% of the country fully vaccinated. Note that the Delta variant was first discovered in India in 2020.


Covid Cases in India Down 81% From Peak

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4Is37sVUAEWptS.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4Is37sVUAEWptS.jpg

3.5% of the country is fully vaccinated.

[Cleverness]

New information leads to new guidelines. Of course you clowns aren't interested in the hearing the truth. You want to pull up old quotes and play gotcha so you can pretend you have a clue.

We're interested in hearing the truth. That's why we ask lots of questions. (That's why the supposed Experts needed to be sworn in and cross examined since the start of this whole charade)

I've asked you plenty of questions on this forum in relation to your narratives, but still waiting for answers. :/

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477454-Official-coronavirus-news-discussion-thread&p=14431213&viewfull=1#post14431213

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497275-Anti-Vaxxers-are-Low-IQ-Prove-me-Wrong&p=14442719&viewfull=1#post14442719

[tpols]

Great thread Clever. I want to give this my stamp of approval but will first need the expert testimony of the great Dr. Tontoz to proceed further. I eagerly await his esteemed, non-biased opinion on the matter. Will report back!

[BurningHammer]

Good question. I think we should swear in and cross examine the supposed Experts and ask these questions.

One thing we know for sure, is that Vermont is experiencing a record high in new cases while simultaneously being the #1 vaccinated state in the US.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAeIZnYVgAEc1vw.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAeIZnYVgAEc1vw.jpg


https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-well-vaccinated-maine-covid-19-still-fills-hospitals-with-the-unvaccinated-11632999601


The problem, public-health experts say, is the variant’s high transmissibility (https://www.wsj.com/articles/highly-vaccinated-states-keep-worst-covid-19-outcomes-in-check-as-delta-spreads-wsj-analysis-shows-11628328602?mod=article_inline) combined with the relaxation of precautions such as wearing masks. Covid-19 infections and hospitalizations have also flared among mostly unvaccinated people in Vermont and western Massachusetts, highlighting the risk Delta poses even in states with the best track records (https://www.wsj.com/articles/vermont-set-to-drop-all-covid-19-restrictions-11623677812?mod=article_inline) for getting shots in arms.

[Cleverness]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-well-vaccinated-maine-covid-19-still-fills-hospitals-with-the-unvaccinated-11632999601

So how many cases would there have been in Vermont without vaccines? Remember that Vermont is the #1 vaccinated state in the country.

If cases rise due to "relaxation of precautions," then how are cases declining in FL? (And many other states in the same region?)

[tontoz]

Great thread Clever. I want to give this my stamp of approval but will first need the expert testimony of the great Dr. Tontoz to proceed further. I eagerly await his esteemed, non-biased opinion on the matter. Will report back!


You really need to invest in Hooked on Phonics before attempting to participate in these threads.

Any more info on those 70k nurses that got fired in NY?

:roll:

[Cleverness]

Furthermore, if cases rise due to "relaxation of precautions," then how did cases begin to spike ~6-8 weeks following Wisconsin's statewide mask mandate?

How did they dramatically decline in April, May, June, and July following their mask mandating being lifted in March, 2021?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAUFjeGVUAgoIzm.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAUFjeGVUAgoIzm.jpg

[BurningHammer]

So how many cases would there have been in Vermont without vaccines? Remember that Vermont is the #1 vaccinated state in the country.

If cases rise due to "relaxation of precautions," then how are cases declining in FL? (And many other states in the same region?)

https://www.healthvermont.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pdf/COVID19-Weekly-Data-Summary-9-24-2021.pdf


About 446,306 people have been fully vaccinated in Vermont. The breakthrough cases represent a small portion, about 0.6%, of the fully vaccinated population.

https://vtdigger.org/2021/09/24/covid-case-counts-set-vermont-records-and-state-data-shows-concerning-trends-on-fatalities/

https://i.postimg.cc/Y9ZDCQ2g/Screenshot-2021-09-30-184527.png (https://vtdigger.org/2021/09/24/covid-case-counts-set-vermont-records-and-state-data-shows-concerning-trends-on-fatalities/)


The rate of breakthrough infections — that is, cases among fully vaccinated Vermonters — has remained mostly level as compared to the rate in unvaccinated people. Unvaccinated Vermonters were roughly 4.4 times more likely than their vaccinated peers to get Covid over the two-week reporting period, compared to the ratio of roughly 3.5 reported throughout the month of August.

[Cleverness]

That's a cool-looking chart, but it doesn't answer the question at all.

How many cases would there have been in Vermont without vaccines? Remember that Vermont is the #1 vaccinated state in the country.

If cases rise due to "relaxation of precautions," then how are cases declining in FL? (And many other states in the same region?)

Also, see the WI data from above and explain why the "relaxation of precautions" there did not have a spike in cases for about 4 months.

[tpols]

You really need to invest in Hooked on Phonics before attempting to participate in these threads.

Any more info on those 70k nurses that got fired in NY?

:roll:

Doctor, we don't have time to sidetrack on this issue.

We desperately await your opinion on this matter. I'm absolutely certain it will be of the utmost integrity and intelligence. Please share with us!

[tontoz]

Doctor, we don't have time to sidetrack on this issue.

We desperately await your opinion on this matter. I'm absolutely certain it will be of the utmost integrity and intelligence. Please share with us!


My first post explained the situation clearly. If you have any friends maybe you could ask one or them to read it and explain it to you.

I don't envy their task.

[BurningHammer]

That's a cool-looking chart, but it doesn't answer the question at all.

How many cases would there have been in Vermont without vaccines? Remember that Vermont is the #1 vaccinated state in the country.


So you didn't read the article or even the chart at all?

[n00bie]

Good question. I think we should swear in and cross examine the supposed Experts and ask these questions.

One thing we know for sure, is that Vermont is experiencing a record high in new cases while simultaneously being the #1 vaccinated state in the US.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAeIZnYVgAEc1vw.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAeIZnYVgAEc1vw.jpg

Another thing we saw was Covid cases in India declining 81% from peak with 3.5% of the country fully vaccinated. Note that the Delta variant was first discovered in India in 2020.

On the flip side, Ontario's 4th wave has been controlled fairly well because of vaccines. Especially hospitalizations.

[Cleverness]

On the flip side, Ontario's 4th wave has been controlled fairly well because of vaccines. Especially hospitalizations.

How do you know it was because of the vaccines? And why didn't it control the wave in Vermont?

Edit: btw, fyi, vaccination rates for all ages (sorry, don't have data readily available for adults only):

Ontario:
May 1 - 3% fully vaccinated
June 1 - 5.8% fully vaccinated
July 1 - 32.1% fully vaccinated

Florida:
May 1 - 29.9% fully vaccinated
June 1 - 39.2% fully vaccinated
July 1 - 46% fully vaccinated

[Cleverness]

So you didn't read the article or even the chart at all?

I didn't find anywhere in the article that states how many infections (or an estimation thereof) would have occurred without vaccines. The chart doesn't answer that either, though it does group "unknown" with "unvaccinated." Your chart doesn't answer that question nor does the quote you took from the article.

Also, are there any situations in Vermont where there have been different testing criteria for vaccinated/unvaccinated persons?

[BurningHammer]

I didn't find anywhere in the article that states how many infections (or an estimation thereof) would have occurred without vaccines. The chart doesn't answer that either, though it does group "unknown" with "unvaccinated." Your chart doesn't answer that question nor does the quote you took from the article.

Also, are there any situations in Vermont where there have been different testing criteria for vaccinated/unvaccinated persons?

You probably have to estimate the "would have" cases yourself based on available data out there. If you are an expert in statistic field you may get accurate numbers. :confusedshrug:

[BurningHammer]

How do you know it was because of the vaccines? And why didn't it control the wave in Vermont?

Edit: btw, fyi, vaccination rates for all ages (sorry, don't have data readily available for adults only):

Ontario:
May 1 - 3% fully vaccinated
June 1 - 5.8% fully vaccinated
July 1 - 32.1% fully vaccinated

Florida:
May 1 - 29.9% fully vaccinated
June 1 - 39.2% fully vaccinated
July 1 - 46% fully vaccinated

Ontario slowly distributed vaccines during that time thanks to slow supplies from the US (Ontario mainly use Pfizer and Moderna). Older, medically compromised folks and frontline healthcare workers got double doses earlier around early Summer.

It has been mostly under control with a bump last few months.

[Cleverness]

You probably have to estimate the "would have" cases yourself based on available data out there. If you are an expert in statistic field you may get accurate numbers. :confusedshrug:

Ok, but the the article you linked didn't answer his question regarding how many infections (or an estimation thereof) would have occurred without vaccines. The bottom line is we don't know if the number of infections in Vermont would have been any different with/without vaccines. What we know is that with 50% of the adults vaccinated in Vermont, we saw a surge to record highs in cases in Vermont.

Also, are there any situations in Vermont where there have been different testing criteria for vaccinated/unvaccinated persons?

[Cleverness]

Ontario slowly distributed vaccines during that time thanks to slow supplies from the US (Ontario mainly use Pfizer and Moderna). Older, medically compromised folks and frontline healthcare workers got double doses earlier around early Summer.

It has been mostly under control with a bump last few months.

Ok, but that doesn't tell us if their infection rates have been "under control" because of the vaccines.

[n00bie]

Ok, but that doesn't tell us if their infection rates have been "under control" because of the vaccines.

Yeah but 80% of eligible adults are vaccinated, yet the 20% unvaccinated makes up the majority of cases and hospitalizations. That must mean something right?

[BurningHammer]

Ok, but the the article you linked didn't answer his question regarding how many infections (or an estimation thereof) would have occurred without vaccines. The bottom line is we don't know if the number of infections in Vermont would have been any different with/without vaccines. What we know is that with 50% of the adults vaccinated in Vermont, we saw a surge to record highs in cases in Vermont.

Also, are there any situations in Vermont where there have been different testing criteria for vaccinated/unvaccinated persons?

Still, the data available showing it is about 4 times more of the unvaccinated than the vaccinated among new cases in Vermont, which means vaccine works for what it supposes to do. Also, the fact that Vermont has relaxed mask mandate since May (https://vtdigger.org/2021/05/14/vermont-relaxes-mask-mandate/), the rise of delta variant in the state (https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/2021/08/12/covid-19-delta-variant-vt-infectious-disease-expert/8105101002/) and other factors may be some of causes of case rising recently.

[TheCorporation]

Day 559 of 15 days to slow the spread

[Cleverness]

Still, the data available showing it is about 4 times more of the unvaccinated than the vaccinated among new cases in Vermont, which means vaccine works for what it supposes to do. Also, the fact that Vermont has relaxed mask mandate since May (https://vtdigger.org/2021/05/14/vermont-relaxes-mask-mandate/), the rise of delta variant in the state (https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/2021/08/12/covid-19-delta-variant-vt-infectious-disease-expert/8105101002/) and other factors may be some of causes of case rising recently.

What is it supposed to do exactly?

Furthermore, if cases rise due to "relaxation of precautions," then how did cases begin to spike ~6-8 weeks following Wisconsin's statewide mask mandate?

How did they dramatically decline in April, May, June, and July following their mask mandating being lifted in March, 2021?

And I'm still waiting on an answer to how Florida brought the cases down 79% from their peak about 6 weeks ago...

[Cleverness]

Yeah but 80% of eligible adults are vaccinated, yet the 20% unvaccinated makes up the majority of cases and hospitalizations. That must mean something right?

I think so. Here's what I said earlier about the vaccines:


To be clear, and I've said this before, but I think the vaccines do have positive absolute risk reductions in both hospitalization & death in certain population in the US. I just think their effectiveness has been extremely overblown, especially in younger, healthy populations, and those who have already recovered.

But my opinion that the vaccines have positive benefits is based on convoluted observational data - as previously shown with my example with 30.1% "Covid" hospitalizations being pregnant women. We have no RCT that tested for and showed vaccines have positive absolute risk reductions in both hospitalization & death. We have the study posted by theman93 last month from Pfizer showing no statistically significant (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496379-Pfizer-vaccine-clinical-trial-shows-it-does-nothing-to-reduce-overall-risk-of-death)difference in death rates between the control and vaccine groups.

TLDR:

-Vaccines can help, especially certain populations, just not as much as the vaccine salesmen like Trump & tontoz are advertising.
-No known benefits (in terms of virus outcomes) from the lockdowns, masks, travel bans, etc.

IIRC the Covid vaccine trials only tested for "symptomatic Covid" least 7 days after becoming "fully vaccinated"; they didn't test for a reduction in hospitalization, death, or reducing the spread of Covid, and in many instances there is just no correlation between the amount of Covid-19 cases and vaccination rates.

Europe back in July 2021:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6HDRsoVUAAM4z2?format=png&name=medium

US data from Spring 2021:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0POolKUYAUMj26?format=png&name=medium

Why didn't we see less cases in the more vaccinated states in Spring 2021?

We'll see what happens this Fall and Winter.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7-MtoRVgAI7yVL?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7-MtoRVgAI7yVL?format=jpg&name=medium

This was from August 5th, when Uruguay and Chile had fully vaccinated > 67% of their population, while Paraguay had fully vaccinated less than 3% of their population. Almost identical amount of cases, yet vastly different vaccination rates. :confusedshrug:

[Kungfro]

Ontario slowly distributed vaccines during that time thanks to slow supplies from the US (Ontario mainly use Pfizer and Moderna). Older, medically compromised folks and frontline healthcare workers got double doses earlier around early Summer.

It has been mostly under control with a bump last few months.

Compare that to Alberta. First to drop most covid restrictions including mask mandates (best summer ever lol). Lowest vaccination rate in the country. We now have 3 times the number of daily cases as Ontario, despite Ontario having 3x the population. Hospitals are on the brink, the premiere reluctantly instituded mask mandates and vaccine passports. Other provinces and the military are flying in medical personnel just to cope. I wouldn't be surprised to see tighter lock downs again either. Alberta has been a good example of how not to deal with covid, total disaster.

[Jasper]

Florida's Covid Cases (7-day average) Have Declined 79% From Peak about 6 weeks ago. (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/florida-covid-cases.html)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-s0q2PUcAAhZq1.jpg

Why did cases begin to surge right after 50% of adults in Florida became fully vaccinated on June 7th?

How did Florida bring the cases down 79% from their peak about 6 weeks ago?

why aren't you talking about the other 500 cases ?? They likely were never vaccinated.

[Cleverness]

why aren't you talking about the other 500 cases ?? They likely were never vaccinated.

What other 500 cases?

The question was why Florida's Covid Cases Have Declined 79% From Peak in about 6 weeks. So far the only answer I can remember was from tontoz, who said that "people became more vigilant with social distancing once they realized what was going on."

We're waiting on him to back up that (bizarre) claim.


1) When did the Delta variant arrive in the US? Florida?

2) The governor ended most of his restrictions in September 2020. When exactly were the social distancing & mask guidelines "relaxed" in Florida? Were they not "relaxed" in 2020 or pre-June 2021? Also, when did they close & open schools in 2020? 2021?

3) What evidence do you have that people became more vigilant with social distancing in Florida?

4) How did Florida bring the cases down 79% from their peak about 6 weeks ago?

[Cleverness]

The state of Florida is now 49th in daily new cases in the US, trailing only Hawaii for the lowest 7-day average of cases: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FB9AQULVkAM3wNQ?format=png&name=small

How have they "controlled the virus" so well in these past ~6 weeks?

Was it school closures, universal statewide masking, lockdowns, college football postponed, strict vaccine passports...?