A legitimate and objective LeBron James rant

[SaintzFury13]

Because this forum seems to be dedicated to making idiotic threads and posts directed at LeBron, I felt it would only be necessary to let out a little mini rant about something that had been bothering me about LeBron for a very long time now dating back to his days in Miami and something that I have felt has always been a legitimate weakness of his. And yes, it's absolutely affected his game.

So because 80% of this forum is littered with morons who would try giving a flower to a jaguar, it comes as no surprise to me that almost none of them, in their attempts to discredit the man, never bring up his off the court IQ and how badly it has ****ed over not only his teammates but his franchises in general, but that's probably because they aren't smart enough to realize that weakness even exists. I'm not against the idea of a man using the leverage he has in order to help his team win, especially in this day and age where the idea of multiple superstars being able to choose to go to or force their way on the same team is more common than ever (which goes back on LeBron because although he wasn't the first to do it, his was arguably the most noteworthy and impactful instance of it in the history of the NBA). But when doing so can cause potentially more harm than good, it gets to a point where you have to ask the question: why and how is he able to continue to get away with it?

The most popular example of this is the Russell Westbrook trade that brought him to the Lakers due to it being the most recent. You will see multiple dumbshits try to paint pointing this out as a legitimate effort at damage control because if LeBron fails, then the narrative is there for the taking and we can apparently all claim "see, told you it wasn't a good fit" (which wouldn't make it damage control but again, morons gonna moron). Now I can't speak for everyone else, but for me, pointing this out is a direct criticism of LeBron James himself. Russell Westbrook wasn't needed for the Lakers. They just won a title a year ago without him. Bring in competent supporting pieces to surround him and AD and hope they stay healthy and they still remain title favorites in the West. Now in my eyes, that goes out the window with the Westbrook trade. But I'm not going to explain why that's a bad fit because it should be obvious why if you are even remotely familiar with both men and how they play the game. But I will now take the opportunity to point out some other examples.

Y'all remember that second run he had with Cleveland? His second "big three" run of his career with Irving and Love? Let's talk about that for a moment shall we?

If you guys have a good memory (and I can tell most of you don't), then you'll recall that when LeBron first returned to Cleveland, Kevin Love was not a member of the team yet. That trade for Wiggins and Bennett still had not happened yet. But as we all know, Cleveland eventually pulled the trigger. But the thing is, Kevin Love being traded to Cleveland, for a short while at least, seemed like it wasn't going to happen. Even with Kevin expressing interest in playing with LeBron in Cleveland, they made it perfectly clear multiple times that Andrew Wiggins was off the table and that they weren't going to trade him. At first, LeBron didn't do anything about that. But as the story goes, LeBron eventually stepped in, told them to trade Wiggins for Love, and the rest is history.

Now, let it be known that I have defended Kevin Love's time in Cleveland and felt that what he brought to the team was in fact underrated even to this day. But I also want to make it known for the record that I think the most important aspect that he was brought in for (his floor spacing for LeBron) could have very easily been replaced by someone like Channing Frye, who ended up getting traded to the team a year later so the question remains, why did they even bother? But that's not what I'm focusing on here. I'm focusing on two key aspects:

1. LeBron's reasoning for stepping in.

2. It might not have even been necessary.

See, it was revealed later in a short interview that the reason LeBron wanted Cleveland to trade for Love is because he was very familiar with Kevin Love's game and wanted someone like him as a teammate, and honestly who wouldn't? He had a high basketball IQ and was an incredible offensive player with terrific rebounding numbers. He was considered a top ten player in the NBA before he got traded to Cleveland. It made all the sense in the world. But here's the crazy thing: LeBron went on to state he knew nothing about Wiggins or how he played the game of basketball. And thus he went with the "safer" option. And this, to me, is an incredibly idiotic and short sighted way of deciding what direction to go. Wiggins has not panned out the way we all expected he would, but at the time of his drafting, many felt he had the potential to be a top ten player in the NBA. He had all the tools to be an excellent defender and had great potential on the offensive side of the court as well. Even with joining a team that already had multiple offensive weapons on it, he still could have developed into a great player for Cleveland just by being their main defensive threat for opposing teams wings. Who knows if that happens, but I'd be willing to bet that him joining a team that has LeBron James on it and a legitimate championship contender would result in Wiggins being far more focused and dedicated to his craft than he was in Minnesota.

But then of course you don't get Kevin Love. Except, here's the thing: Cleveland probably would have gotten him anyways (hence the "might not have been necessary" part). Kevin Love had one year remaining in his contract when he got traded to Cleveland. And Cleveland at the end of the 2015 would have ended up having the cap space necessary to sign Love, since that was before they had to give out all of those insane contracts and LeBron opting out of his one year with a player option deal would have opened up enough space to bring him in. And Love has gone on record many times stating that he envisioned himself playing with LeBron in Cleveland one way or another once he announced he was returning there. So odds are, Kevin Love would have just joined Cleveland in free agency anyways. And that would have given Cleveland a team consisting of LeBron, Irving, Love and now Wiggins.

[SaintzFury13]

And that goes back again on the decision making of LeBron. His willingness to get himself involved in matters like these to that level. The very idea of this, when even given a little thought, is idiotic in of itself. Cleveland made it to the finals that year without Love for the ESF and ECF due to injury. It's widely accepted at this point that all they really needed was a healthy Irving to beat Golden State that year. Hell, having Wiggins there definitely would have helped, even as a rookie. Yes, you can (somewhat) make the argument that LeBron getting himself involved in that matter cost Cleveland the championship that year. Of course, we don't know what having Wiggins there means in regards to the other roster changes that occur. If Wiggins is there, does Cleveland make the trade for Shumpert and JR Smith that helps give them legitimate SG depth? Probably not. Wiggins would have most likely became the starting SG himself while Waiters came off the bench as their main sixth man, and thus the trade probably never happens. I guess I'll leave it up to you guys whether or not that would have been better than Smith/Shumpert. But at the same time, Shumpert's defense was key in the 2015 finals. Who knows if a more determined and focus Wiggins is able to do as good of a job checking Klay. But in the end, they most likely get Kevin Love the following season so who cares?

And there are other examples of LeBron tampering that you can argue hurt his teams. The firing of David Blatt (although to be fair, his coaching style did hurt Kevin Love's on court production, but then again, LeBron didn't really allow Blatt to incorporate his style of basketball onto the team), forcing Cleveland to give big contracts to players who don't deserve it, trying to get Spols fired in Miami, etc. There are legitimate examples of LeBron being a literal cancer to his team and they're out there for everyone to see. He knows how much power and leverage he has with his franchises, especially in Cleveland, and he's used it to get what he wants in situations where you could argue he had no business being involved in them. It's clear he doesn't have the best mind in the world when it comes to team dynamics and fit. He wanted to play with Westbrook for christ stake. I normally don't reference back to oblivious retards who pander to people stupid enough to vote for Donald Trump, but I will nonetheless concede that when LeBron was told he should just "shut up and dribble", there are definitely certain situations where he should do just that.

[warriorfan]

So LeBron is a colluding dumbshit. Thanks captain obvious, I don’t think that has ever been said.

[LAL]

So LeBron is a colluding dumbshit. Thanks captain obvious, I don’t think that has ever been said.

Pretty much. I don't know what's wrong with op but he seemed to have a hard time simply writing this.

Lebron has no skills, why tf would you think he needs all that extra shit?

[MadDog]

I can think of other flaws and ones pertaining to LeBron's game, but this is a good writeup. We agree here. Yes "LeGM" should let the front office do their jobs, and turn his focus onto the court (his actual expertise). That being said, how much do you think Cleveland's ability (or lack thereof) to get him the "right pieces" has played a role? I've argued that those 2009 & 2010 teams weren't bad like LeBron fans claim, but they also weren't great.

From 04-10, you could absolutely argue management did a poor job building around LeBron. You could also argue no legitmate FA wanted to play in Cleveland. You got to think its made LeBron jaded.

[RRR3]

Yeah he’s a bad GM and Love was always a massive negative against the Warriors (the only team the Cavs needed to beat) so he was a dumb addition. However it’s equally dumb when people act like LeBron has anywhere near the power he did in Cleveland in Los Angeles. The Lakers are the most famous and celebrated franchise in the NBA, and their management went against Kobe Bryant in the past. If they didn’t listen to everything their most beloved player ever said they’re not going to do it for someone they signed late in his career.

[SaintzFury13]

So LeBron is a colluding dumbshit. Thanks captain obvious, I don’t think that has ever been said.

Your entire gimmick on this site revolves around the idea that LeBron stacks the deck.

Pretty much everything I just wrote goes against that idea.

Don't even try to pretend you were smart enough to think of any of this.

[MadDog]

Yeah he’s a bad GM and Love was always a massive negative against the Warriors (the only team the Cavs needed to beat) so he was a dumb addition. However it’s equally dumb when people act like LeBron has anywhere near the power he did in Cleveland in Los Angeles. The Lakers are the most famous and celebrated franchise in the NBA, and their management went against Kobe Bryant in the past. If they didn’t listen to everything their most beloved player ever said they’re not going to do it for someone they signed late in his career.

Post 2011, you could argue they did a poor job building around Kobe. Laker fans overrated Mitch Kupchak for years, and guess what? He was fired.

[SaintzFury13]

Yeah he’s a bad GM and Love was always a massive negative against the Warriors (the only team the Cavs needed to beat) so he was a dumb addition. However it’s equally dumb when people act like LeBron has anywhere near the power he did in Cleveland in Los Angeles. The Lakers are the most famous and celebrated franchise in the NBA, and their management went against Kobe Bryant in the past. If they didn’t listen to everything their most beloved player ever said they’re not going to do it for someone they signed late in his career.

LeBron straight up met with Westbrook before he was traded to LA and agreed to playing together in LA. This has LeBron written all over it.

And yeah, LA clashed with Kobe in the past. LeBron is not Kobe. LeBron brought the Lakers back into relevancy after they were bottom of the barrel for years. And although LeBron has managed to sustain an insane level of dominance for a long period of time, we all know it's going to happen sooner rather than later. Hell, it could even start this year for all we know. If LeBron wants something, the Lakers are going to give it to him.

[SaintzFury13]

Pretty much. I don't know what's wrong with op but he seemed to have a hard time simply writing this.

Because that's not what I wrote. You retards need to understand what the term "collusion" means.

[warriorfan]

Your entire gimmick on this site revolves around the idea that LeBron stacks the deck.

Pretty much everything I just wrote goes against that idea.

Don't even try to pretend you were smart enough to think of any of this.

You basically just reiterated a bunch of stuff people constantly post on here while acting like you came up with some brand new, ground breaking conclusions. It’s extremely cringeworthy. Next thing you know we will get a post from you about how you have discovered that 2+2=4.

[SaintzFury13]

You basically just reiterated a bunch of stuff people constantly post on here while acting like you came up with some brand new, ground breaking conclusions. It’s extremely cringeworthy. Next thing you know we will get a post from you about how you have discovered that 2+2=4.

When? Where? Give me one post where any of you morons try to explain that LeBron should have just waited for Love to come to Cleveland as a free agent while they kept Wiggins instead of having him be traded there. I guarantee you that post has never once been made by anyone on this site since I've joined it.

And wait, are you now acknowledging that what you spend 90% of your time on this site saying is in fact bullshit? Because you're comparing what I'm stating to something that is a legit fact (2+2=4), since, you know, you like to pretend LeBron stacks the deck while the post explains that he doesn't do that at all?

[AirBonner]

Op is deranged wahhh If LeBron was flashy and missed more shots he would be like Kobe

[SaintzFury13]

I can think of other flaws and ones pertaining to LeBron's game, but this is a good writeup. We agree here. Yes "LeGM" should let the front office do their jobs, and turn his focus onto the court (his actual expertise). That being said, how much do you think Cleveland's ability (or lack thereof) to get him the "right pieces" has played a role? I've argued that those 2009 & 2010 teams weren't bad like LeBron fans claim, but they also weren't great.

From 04-10, you could absolutely argue management did a poor job building around LeBron. You could also argue no legitmate FA wanted to play in Cleveland. You got to think its made LeBron jaded.

The reason I choose to focus on this particular aspect of LeBron is because it's one that is never brought up or mentioned. LeGM is a negative aspect of LeBron's game because his own decision making outside of the court has on more than one occasion affected the results of his career. Idiots on this site like to pretend that it's somehow a reason to disqualify his accomplishments like his championship wins, thus he's a great GM of some sort. In reality it's the opposite. It's potentially cost him a championship, it's hurt an entire franchise, it turned Cleveland into a joke of a defensive team by the time 2017 rolled around the corner. There are obviously bigger drawbacks that you can focus on in regards to his on court play, but I believe LeBron's resume (as insane as it is already) would be even better if he chose to stay out of matters relating to the business side of things and instead just chose to work with what he had. And while I can understand his hesitancy to do so after the shit show that was his first seven years in Cleveland, there has to be a point where LeBron realizes "you know what? Maybe I'm not the right guy to be making these decisions" and just leave it at that. But even now to this day, he continues to involve himself in matters he has no business being part of.

Edit: I just noticed the question you were asking in this very post, so allow me to address that.

It has absolutely played a role. I make a brief mention of LeBron being hesitant to let Cleveland handle the entire affair after how much of a disaster their first go at it was, and thus while he doesn't get a pass per say, I will say it's understandable as to why he was so controlling. Those 2009 and 2010 teams were in fact very good teams and good supporting casts, but weren't built for playoff basketball. Sometimes when a system falls apart, you need players who are able to perform outside of it and produce results based on their talent alone. Cleveland never had anyone outside of LeBron who could do that on those two teams and that's simply not going to cut it. They were desperately missing another legitimate all star who could get you points reliably, someone who could help take over the game and swing the momentum in Cleveland's favor. LeBron had one poor game in each of those two playoff series that he lost. One. Game 6 in 2009 and game 5 in 2010. People might forget this, but a star player having more than one bad game in a playoff series is not uncommon. But in LeBron's case, if he had a bad game his team was ****ed.

[SaintzFury13]

Op is deranged wahhh If LeBron was flashy and missed more shots he would be like Kobe

...okay?

[Manny98]

You basically just reiterated a bunch of stuff people constantly post on here while acting like you came up with some brand new, ground breaking conclusions. It’s extremely cringeworthy. Next thing you know we will get a post from you about how you have discovered that 2+2=4.

:lol

[Phoenix]

My biggest 'criticism' of Lebron is that I think he actually would have been even 'more' successful had he committed to mostly being a scorer, or mostly being a passer, instead of trying to balance those 2 roles. Be MJ, or be Magic. Pick a side. Lebron would have been super-Magic if he decided to go that route, or he could have put 30ppg every season if he wanted, develop more off-ball tendencies, and have an actual PG run the offense. Lebron being on the receiving end of playmaking is IMO an even more dangerous offensive threat just off his athleticism alone. It also would have allowed teams to build rosters and develop strategies that didn't completely depend on him doing everything to keep the wheels turning.

[AirBonner]

Basically people are complaining about LeBron making the best decisions for the team

[SaintzFury13]

My biggest 'criticism' of Lebron is that I think he actually would have been even 'more' successful had he committed to mostly being a scorer, or mostly being a passer, instead of trying to balance those 2 roles. Be MJ, or be Magic. Pick a side. Lebron would have been super-Magic if he decided to go that route, or he could have put 30ppg every season if he wanted, develop more off-ball tendencies, and have an actual PG run the offense. Lebron being on the receiving end of playmaking is IMO an even more dangerous offensive threat just off his athleticism alone. It also would have allowed teams to build rosters and develop strategies that didn't completely depend on him doing everything to keep the wheels turning.

He never would have been able to be either of those two. LeBron's strength has and always will be the ability to impact the game in multiple ways at an elite level. There is no single category that you can focus on that you'd put LeBron at the top all time. Scoring, assists, rebounding, defense, LeBron ain't the top dog in any of these categories. But he is elite in all of them. That's what makes him one of the all time greats. You take away his passing ability, or his scoring, those Cavaliers teams in his first run don't come anywhere close to being as good as they were. Forget winning 60 games two seasons in a row, they'd be lucky to win 50.

[Phoenix]

He never would have been able to be either of those two. LeBron's strength has and always will be the ability to impact the game in multiple ways at an elite level. There is no single category that you can focus on that you'd put LeBron at the top all time. Scoring, assists, rebounding, defense, LeBron ain't the top dog in any of these categories. But he is elite in all of them. That's what makes him one of the all time greats. You take away his passing ability, or his scoring, those Cavaliers teams in his first run don't come anywhere close to being as good as they were. Forget winning 60 games two seasons in a row, they'd be lucky to win 50.

You don't think if Lebron just focused on being 'more' of a scorer, that he wouldn't be even more 'elite' at it in a historical context? I think the whole 'Lebron isn't really a scorer' thing is overblown. No he doesn't have the smoothest or most finely tuned of offensive skillsets, but if you're dropping 27ppg over 19 seasons, you're a scorer. I feel like this is mostly said so that people can say 'man, Lebron ain't even a scorer and yet he's 3rd all-time' or whatever. His teams may have had lower regular season ceilings( record-wise) but I'm not convinced they wouldn't have been better off in the playoffs. It depends on what kind of roster was built around him. The reality is we can only speculate because Lebron has quarterbacked every team he has been on( he did play more off-ball in Miami, but for the most part he was still the teams PG so to speak. It certainly wasn't Mario Chalmers).

[SaintzFury13]

You don't think if Lebron just focused on being 'more' of a scorer, that he wouldn't be even more 'elite' at it in a historical context? I think the whole 'Lebron isn't really a scorer' thing is overblown. No he doesn't have the smoothest or most finely tuned of offensive skillsets, but if you're dropping 27ppg over 19 seasons, you're a scorer. I feel like this is mostly said so that people can say 'man, Lebron ain't even a scorer and yet he's 3rd all-time' or whatever. His teams may have had lower regular season ceilings( record-wise) but I'm not convinced they wouldn't have been better off in the playoffs. It depends on what kind of roster was built around him. The reality is we can only speculate because Lebron has quarterbacked every team he has been on( he did play more off-ball in Miami, but for the most part he was still the teams PG so to speak. It certainly wasn't Mario Chalmers).

No, I honestly don't. Maybe LeBron becomes more developed and polished at that end of the floor. Maybe. But you take away one of the reasons why he was so hard to guard in the first place. His ability to pass out of the double, to find open teammates, it's why his teams are so successful. No one in the history of the NBA has had the ability to score at an elite level but have a pass first mindset. It's allowed LeBron's teams to have a more polished offensive system. We need to keep in mind that this was happening with someone who was playing at the SF position. I know now it's more common to see players like that, but back then when he first got drafted? A player like LeBron was like nothing we had ever seen before. Guys like Grant Hill, Scottie Pippen and Larry Bird were the closest we had seen and they were never anywhere close to being as impactful in that regard as LeBron was. And especially when you consider what LeBron had as far as help is concerned in that first run with Cleveland, LeBron absolutely needed to be that kind of player. Cleveland never has anywhere near the amount of success they have if LeBron is nothing more than just a better scorer than what he already was. That scoring only takes you so far. You need a team that can help. And when you have a guy that can literally force the involvement of teammates and has that ability to get them integrated on the fly? That's a rare thing that not many have.

I do agree that the whole "he isn't a scorer" thing is overblown, but only to an extent. The way I look at it is that when he plays the game of basketball, his mindset isn't usually to score. He surveys the situation at hand and makes a decision on what is best on the fly, regardless of what the game plan is. LeBron just basically goes out there and does whatever he wants. That shit would almost never work with any basketball player unless they were a player with a score first mentality.

[MadDog]

The reason I choose to focus on this particular aspect of LeBron is because it's one that is never brought up or mentioned. LeGM is a negative aspect of LeBron's game because his own decision making outside of the court has on more than one occasion affected the results of his career. Idiots on this site like to pretend that it's somehow a reason to disqualify his accomplishments like his championship wins, thus he's a great GM of some sort. In reality it's the opposite. It's potentially cost him a championship, it's hurt an entire franchise, it turned Cleveland into a joke of a defensive team by the time 2017 rolled around the corner. There are obviously bigger drawbacks that you can focus on in regards to his on court play, but I believe LeBron's resume (as insane as it is already) would be even better if he chose to stay out of matters relating to the business side of things and instead just chose to work with what he had. And while I can understand his hesitancy to do so after the shit show that was his first seven years in Cleveland, there has to be a point where LeBron realizes "you know what? Maybe I'm not the right guy to be making these decisions" and just leave it at that. But even now to this day, he continues to involve himself in matters he has no business being part of.

Edit: I just noticed the question you were asking in this very post, so allow me to address that.

It has absolutely played a role. I make a brief mention of LeBron being hesitant to let Cleveland handle the entire affair after how much of a disaster their first go at it was, and thus while he doesn't get a pass per say, I will say it's understandable as to why he was so controlling. Those 2009 and 2010 teams were in fact very good teams and good supporting casts, but weren't built for playoff basketball. Sometimes when a system falls apart, you need players who are able to perform outside of it and produce results based on their talent alone. Cleveland never had anyone outside of LeBron who could do that on those two teams and that's simply not going to cut it. They were desperately missing another legitimate all star who could get you points reliably, someone who could help take over the game and swing the momentum in Cleveland's favor. LeBron had one poor game in each of those two playoff series that he lost. One. Game 6 in 2009 and game 5 in 2010. People might forget this, but a star player having more than one bad game in a playoff series is not uncommon. But in LeBron's case, if he had a bad game his team was ****ed.

Short of being a literal control freak, you would have to. His mindset from there on out had to be one dictating the circumstances around him. Hence bolting to Miami then returning to Cleveland (on the premise of more authority) and now with Los Angeles. Don't know how Westbrook and LeBron will work, but this reminds me a lot of the 2013 Lakers - putting injured and past their prime talent around Kobe. There's high potential but disaster awaiting all the same.

Hard to blame LeBron for 2009, and its laughable when detractors even go that route. He was a statistical marvel and absolutely carried vs Orlando. 2010 was a headscratcher though. From taking a 2-1 lead, to Lelbowgate, and then the final minutes of game 6, where LeBron sort of quit. Looking back at it, I wonder if he checked out of that series knowing full well he was going to play with Wade. I've read they planned on it for years hence the "collusion" talk.

[8Ball]

LeBron never colluded.


Rebuilding the Dog Cavs and the basement dwelling Lakers is something only a GOAT could do.

[3ba11]

Wiggins was considered a generational talent and far superior to Pippen, yet Lebron scuttled the tough job of developing and lighting that fire under his young Pippen, and opted for the proven All-NBA Love.. Not developing Wiggins cost Lebron titles in the long run... But that was the tougher option and Bronny ain't bout that life - he likes shortcuts and cheatcodes

[Phoenix]

No, I honestly don't. Maybe LeBron becomes more developed and polished at that end of the floor. Maybe. But you take away one of the reasons why he was so hard to guard in the first place. His ability to pass out of the double, to find open teammates, it's why his teams are so successful. No one in the history of the NBA has had the ability to score at an elite level but have a pass first mindset. It's allowed LeBron's teams to have a more polished offensive system. We need to keep in mind that this was happening with someone who was playing at the SF position. I know now it's more common to see players like that, but back then when he first got drafted? A player like LeBron was like nothing we had ever seen before. Guys like Grant Hill, Scottie Pippen and Larry Bird were the closest we had seen and they were never anywhere close to being as impactful in that regard as LeBron was. And especially when you consider what LeBron had as far as help is concerned in that first run with Cleveland, LeBron absolutely needed to be that kind of player. Cleveland never has anywhere near the amount of success they have if LeBron is nothing more than just a better scorer than what he already was. That scoring only takes you so far. You need a team that can help. And when you have a guy that can literally force the involvement of teammates and has that ability to get them integrated on the fly? That's a rare thing that not many have.

I do agree that the whole "he isn't a scorer" thing is overblown, but only to an extent. The way I look at it is that when he plays the game of basketball, his mindset isn't usually to score. He surveys the situation at hand and makes a decision on what is best on the fly, regardless of what the game plan is. LeBron just basically goes out there and does whatever he wants. That shit would almost never work with any basketball player unless they were a player with a score first mentality.

To be clear, I'm not saying that Lebron should have 'only' focused on scoring. Heck even MJ and Kobe who were known as 'scorers' had some seasons dropping 5-6apg. What I'm saying is, having Lebron be both your lead scorer and passer/playmaker capped the ability of the team to have other playmakers on the floor. Perimeter guys had to subjugate their own games. It worked with Kyrie because of his shooting ability. Wade had some of the same tendencies and had to be a 'lesser' version of his prior self in order to move beyond the 'my turn, your turn' dynamic that defined their first season in Miami ( not to forget that this also coincided with the end of his physical prime). And when you have a team that's built to play off Lebron to the degree those teams did, that team craters when he's not there as we saw time and time again. The amount of time that those Cavs teams had built a lead with him on the floor, then proceed to lose ground puts even more pressure on him to be great and to play heavy minutes to maintain that competitive edge. Now obviously, Lebron is a one of a kind athlete so he's been able to weather that load, but knocking on 37 I'm curious to see how he plays this season, especially with Westbrook( which is a really bad fit on paper).

End of the day, IMO the swiss-knife skillset led to some great things but I do wonder if some things were potentially left on the table. Case in point, there's no way the Heat should have lost that 2011 chip if Lebron wasn't playing hot potato with the ball and seemed almost off-put by how aggressive Wade was for most of the series.

[hateraid]

I don't think OP knows the meaning of objective

[Kobe_Bryant]

lebron is great but his accomplishments suck

hes like a combination of Westbrooks statistics and durants resume with Barry bonds historical significance


hes a forced fraudulent product


great talent. but a phoney legacy. he chose the easy path in every way imaginable and we don't respect him for it

seeing him wearing jordans number 23 in my Laker jersey with a fake hairline, fake muscles and all those teammates he acquired this off-season his basically his career in a nutshell.


and now he switched to number 6 specifically to attempt to have 2 Laker jersey retirements like me. it's sad

[hold this L]

Yeah he’s a bad GM and Love was always a massive negative against the Warriors (the only team the Cavs needed to beat) so he was a dumb addition. However it’s equally dumb when people act like LeBron has anywhere near the power he did in Cleveland in Los Angeles. The Lakers are the most famous and celebrated franchise in the NBA, and their management went against Kobe Bryant in the past. If they didn’t listen to everything their most beloved player ever said they’re not going to do it for someone they signed late in his career.
He couldn't have foreseen Warriors being the team he'd need to beat though, or small ball. People didn't expect much until they started running over everyone.

[SaintzFury13]

When? Where? Give me one post where any of you morons try to explain that LeBron should have just waited for Love to come to Cleveland as a free agent while they kept Wiggins instead of having him be traded there. I guarantee you that post has never once been made by anyone on this site since I've joined it.

I'm still waiting. If this is something that is constantly said on here then surely there must be a post about it lying around somewhere.

[outofstomach]

Op is deranged wahhh If LeBron was flashy and missed more shots he would be like Kobe

that’s not what he typed at all you foaming at the mouth retard

[NBAGOAT]

True about not being a good gm. KD blows him out of the water when it comes to forming a team lol. I remember arguing the nets should trade for Beal, had no idea harden was even possible til he demanded a trade. The Westbrook idea is no sure thing on paper and a bit of a desperation move to build a big 3 when no one else was available

[SaintzFury13]

True about not being a good gm. KD blows him out of the water when it comes to forming a team lol. I remember arguing the nets should trade for Beal, had no idea harden was even possible til he demanded a trade. The Westbrook idea is no sure thing on paper and a bit of a desperation move to build a big 3 when no one else was available

Meh, I'll gladly admit to being wrong on this one if that ends up being the case, but I don't see this Nets team winning anything either.

[NBAGOAT]

Meh, I'll gladly admit to being wrong on this one if that ends up being the case, but I don't see this Nets team winning anything either.

It’s still the strongest team on the league in paper

[Spurs m8]

Is OP mentally challenged?

We've brought up countless times that he trades away all his teams assets for win now pieces.

He cherry picks what suits him, then leaves the franchise, with no assets left and an overpaid roster, that he gloats that be got paid.

I'm pretty sure this is the kinda thing op was going on about...I only skimmed his post, as he seems to be a bit of a b1tch

[expansionera]

You can tell whenever Lebron is poised to win a title because guys start making excuses right away, noooooo don’t improve your team in a league where the standard is big threes. Be like Mike who won his last three titles with a….. big three?

The only big three in the league at the time? :facepalm

If Lebron stacks the deck it’s because Jordan gave him the blueprint

[Kobe_Bryant]

You can tell whenever Lebron is poised to win a title because guys start making excuses right away, noooooo don’t improve your team in a league where the standard is big threes. Be like Mike who won his last three titles with a….. big three?

The only big three in the league at the time? :facepalm

If Lebron stacks the deck it’s because Jordan gave him the blueprint

lebron should be trying to beat guys like davis and westbrook. not calling them up asking them to join him. if they somehow end up on his team because his GM's pulled a deal off then so be it. but never tamper with the league. thats cheating

[StrongLurk]

It's gonna be hilarious trying to see Westbrook and Lebron fit well. It's like having Magic Johnson and Ben Simmons be in your starting lineup.

[HoopsNY]

I've always said that LeBron's losses looms higher because he took the responsibility of making GM moves. That matters significantly when we talk about his finals losses. They're not merely a byproduct of a bad front office devoid of his input. In some cases, his input was significant.

[HoopsNY]

It's gonna be hilarious trying to see Westbrook and Lebron fit well. It's like having Magic Johnson and Ben Simmons be in your starting lineup.

I think they'll do just fine. LeBron is a smarter player and leader than James Harden. Westbrook also knows he's on his last lap where winning a title is concerned and needs to get it done this season. I'd expect a lot of load management this year from LA's players, with the exception of Westbrook.

[StrongLurk]

I think they'll do just fine. LeBron is a smarter player and leader than James Harden. Westbrook also knows he's on his last lap where winning a title is concerned and needs to get it done this season. I'd expect a lot of load management this year from LA's players, with the exception of Westbrook.

Best scenario would be Westbrook becoming a taller, more athletic Rajon Rondo who could flirt with putting up something like 14/8/8 on above average efficiency while Lebron plays similar to some of his Miami days where he is casually off-ball and in the post more...I just have little faith in Westbrook ever trying to mix/switch up his game since he is too dumb and aggressive. The issue is the offense runs amazingly just through the Lebron/AD combo, so any other low-iq ball dominator (think Schroeder/Westbrook) is just making things worse for the Lakers regardless of their talent.

We saw Lebron playing pure point in 2020 with AD was unstoppable, and yet the Lakers FO thought it would be a good idea to mess with that in the worse ways (Schroeder, Westbrook, Andre Drummond, etc.).

They should've kept Dwight and Javale as backups and gone after real shooters/secondary creators. Now they do have Dwight back, but lost Gasol, KCP, and AC who were all very valuable and effective role players (while keeping overrated trash like THT lol).

I guess at the end of the day, the healthy Nets are way too talented and will beat everyone regardless, so Lebron/AD probably just said F it, we got our 2020 rings, let's just gamble on Westbrook and see what happens.

[SaintzFury13]

Is OP mentally challenged?

We've brought up countless times that he trades away all his teams assets for win now pieces.

He cherry picks what suits him, then leaves the franchise, with no assets left and an overpaid roster, that he gloats that be got paid.

I'm pretty sure this is the kinda thing op was going on about...I only skimmed his post, as he seems to be a bit of a b1tch

So you chimed in on a post that you didn't even fully read?

And you're asking if I'm mentally challenged?

And also, congrats. You, just like another well known retard on this forum, completely missed the point of the OP.

[SaintzFury13]

lebron should be trying to beat guys like davis and westbrook. not calling them up asking them to join him. if they somehow end up on his team because his GM's pulled a deal off then so be it. but never tamper with the league. thats cheating

LeBron never asked AD to come play with him in LA.

[warriorfan]

Op did too much adderall this morning.

[SaintzFury13]

Op did too much adderall this morning.

So when given the chance, you respond with this. That's just sad.

[SATAN]

I don't understand why people would even be mad that LeBron wants the best pieces around him to compete in the finals. Even if he has to suggest such and such to the front office...Who cares? What is the crime here? He's allegedly making his teams better than the front office that get paid to actually do. If anything he deserves a pay rise and legacy boost.

Do people actually think LeBron just waltzes into a team and completely takes over the entire organization though? :oldlol:

Come on.

[SaintzFury13]

I don't understand why people would even be mad that LeBron wants the best pieces around him to compete in the finals. Even if he has to suggest such and such to the front office...Who cares? What is the crime here? He's allegedly making his teams better than the front office that get paid to actually do. If anything he deserves a pay rise and legacy boost.

Do people actually think LeBron just waltzes into a team and completely takes over the entire organization though? :oldlol:

Come on.

Because it usually just ends up ****ing his team over. You don't see that as a bad thing?

[NBAGOAT]

I don't understand why people would even be mad that LeBron wants the best pieces around him to compete in the finals. Even if he has to suggest such and such to the front office...Who cares? What is the crime here? He's allegedly making his teams better than the front office that get paid to actually do. If anything he deserves a pay rise and legacy boost.

Do people actually think LeBron just waltzes into a team and completely takes over the entire organization though? :oldlol:

Come on.

Ops saying lebron isn’t the best at building teams. Westbrook move obviously has some potential issues and he argues Cleveland should’ve kept Wiggins(could’ve signed love in a year anyway). I don’t have much to back this up but if kd was doing the convincing instead of lebron, I think he convinces kawhi to join the lakers lol. Kawhi/lebron/ad is better than bkns current team even with only vet min role players around them

[Axe]

Kong currently has a retarded coach in frank vogel. Now you guys already know who's to blame if they lose somewhere in the playoffs next year.

[SATAN]

Because it usually just ends up ****ing his team over. You don't see that as a bad thing?

Depends. If they had no chance of winning a chip and he gets them a chip how is that bad? All teams have to rebuild anyway. Your Love, Wiggins, Frye comparisons and what ifs seem bizarre to me. I could argue Wiggins lack of effort and consistency would have had the opposite effect of what you envisioned. :confusedshrug:

The Westbrook signing might work out great. I don't see him coming in and trying to be the man as he respects LeBron's leadership. The bad shots will likely be there but whatever.

I agree with the contract part though.

[SATAN]

I don’t have much to back this up but if kd was doing the convincing instead of lebron, I think he convinces kawhi to join the lakers lol. Kawhi/lebron/ad is better than bkns current team even with only vet min role players around them

I think Kawhi was on his high horse and trying to get praise as a better player than LeBron. It was obvious with the way he ****ed over the Lakers and then made those stupid king of LA commercials. So yeah, no doubt KD would have a better chance of pairing with him.

[SATAN]

Not sure if I misunderstood your comment.

[NBAGOAT]

Not sure if I misunderstood your comment.

no you got it but i didnt see it for that reason. KD is just very good at being a part of great teams lol

[3ba11]

You basically just reiterated a bunch of stuff people constantly post on here while acting like you came up with some brand new, ground breaking conclusions. It’s extremely cringeworthy. Next thing you know we will get a post from you about how you have discovered that 2+2=4.


lol i just saw this

:rockon:

[Sportal]

OP. I understand what you've said, but you are literally wasting your time doing any such thing here... The amount of times I've deleted something insightful and about the sport of basketball on this forum... Because I am at the core, a basketball fan, I could talk shit to someone about basketball whenever. But a conversation cannot be had on here without mentioning Jordan, Kobe, or LeBron, even when it is about none of them. We could start talking about a new draftee that was picked this year, and someone would say: he reminds me of X, and someone would say why would you want to be reminded of X when Y is better. The "X" and "Y" is literally 95% of the time one of the 3 players just mentioned.

With your opening statement. With a LeBron, Kyrie, Rookie Wiggins... That team makes the Finals, right? Because Love was injured for all but the 1st round, they 4-0 two teams that postseason, and beat the after knee injury DRose 4-2. Kyrie played one game vs the Warriors, and they lose 4-2, I would assume with Wiggins that doesn't change. Wiggins would have just needed to find himself 16/9 which, with his hype, was not out of the realms of expectation. So yeah... Without LeBron's input, they might have had the same season, and then added Love after it... Creating an even better team for the next couple of seasons... Maybe a back-to-back team?

Another maybe, is that if Joel Embiid wasn't injured at Kansas, he probably goes #1 to Cleveland, and it's LeBron, Embiid, and Kyrie. Wiggins goes to the Bucks, Parker to the 76ers.

[Spurs m8]

So you chimed in on a post that you didn't even fully read?

And you're asking if I'm mentally challenged?

And also, congrats. You, just like another well known retard on this forum, completely missed the point of the OP.

But I wasn't wrong lmao

[Baller789]

Kong currently has a retarded coach in frank vogel. Now you guys already know who's to blame if they lose somewhere in the playoffs next year.
A better question is can he co-exist with top tier coaches like Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Greg P. etc. without getting them fired.

[SaintzFury13]

But I wasn't wrong lmao

Actually, yes you were.

[SaintzFury13]

OP. I understand what you've said, but you are literally wasting your time doing any such thing here... The amount of times I've deleted something insightful and about the sport of basketball on this forum... Because I am at the core, a basketball fan, I could talk shit to someone about basketball whenever. But a conversation cannot be had on here without mentioning Jordan, Kobe, or LeBron, even when it is about none of them. We could start talking about a new draftee that was picked this year, and someone would say: he reminds me of X, and someone would say why would you want to be reminded of X when Y is better. The "X" and "Y" is literally 95% of the time one of the 3 players just mentioned.

With your opening statement. With a LeBron, Kyrie, Rookie Wiggins... That team makes the Finals, right? Because Love was injured for all but the 1st round, they 4-0 two teams that postseason, and beat the after knee injury DRose 4-2. Kyrie played one game vs the Warriors, and they lose 4-2, I would assume with Wiggins that doesn't change. Wiggins would have just needed to find himself 16/9 which, with his hype, was not out of the realms of expectation. So yeah... Without LeBron's input, they might have had the same season, and then added Love after it... Creating an even better team for the next couple of seasons... Maybe a back-to-back team?

Another maybe, is that if Joel Embiid wasn't injured at Kansas, he probably goes #1 to Cleveland, and it's LeBron, Embiid, and Kyrie. Wiggins goes to the Bucks, Parker to the 76ers.

I'm not going to say that having Wiggins would have made all the difference in the world, but it would have at the very least provided a competent defensive player as well as one extra body to the team. Honestly, who knows if Kyrie even gets injured. But under the assumption that he does, that just means Cleveland still has at least one extra body and are better equiped to handle Golden State going small ball, which is what ultimately hurt Cleveland in the end. Before Golden State did that, Cleveland had the 2-1 series lead and had stolen HCA from GS.

[expansionera]

lebron should be trying to beat guys like davis and westbrook. not calling them up asking them to join him. if they somehow end up on his team because his GM's pulled a deal off then so be it. but never tamper with the league. thats cheating

Didn’t Dennis Rodman bully Jordan for a half decade before Jordan begged for more pieces and teamed up with a first ballot Hall of Famer to add to his arsenal that already included Pippen and Kukoc? Let me guess, that was different and having two of the best defenders in league history did not help Jordan win championships against inferior teams

At least with Lebron the Nets are a legitimate threat with three real superstars. What teams did Jordan face that he needed to stack the deck that much anyway?