OFFICIAL STATISTICAL FACT: pippen is worst scoring 2nd option that won multiple rings

[3ba11]

He's the only sidekick that won multiple Finals while averaging 15.7 ppg on 40% and never averaged over 21 - Pippen not only scored the least but his efficiency is worst-ever for a winning sidekick.

Every other sidekick that won multiple rings was a better scorer or won FMVP

People forget that scoring is what determines whether a player is a 2nd option or not - if a 2nd option doesn't score efficiently or adequately, then they aren't a 2nd option.. So when you guys say that "scoring isn't everything" - you're lying - that's what determines if a player is 2nd option or not.. So when you laud Pippen's hustle or defense as a bandaid for his bad scoring, you're conceding that Jordan won with a defensive role player as sidekick - the worst-scoring sidekick in history - a guy that couldn't score so you have to pretend/lionize role player stuff.

[GrayGoat]

Pippen outscored the majority of all 2nd options in the 90’s. Why a terrible player

[MadDog]

Relative to the era he wasn't. From 91-93 & 96-98, Pippen outscored every number two in 18/24 series.

[3ba11]

Relative to the era he wasn't. From 91-93 & 96-98, Pippen outscored every number two in 18/24 series.


^^^ That's worst-ever for a sidekick that won multiple rings

Every other sidekick routinely outscored the opposing #1 option, won FMVP, averaged 25+, or otherwise dominated in a way that Pippen never did.

Btw, when you say Pippen outscored opposing #2's in 18 of 24 series - Pippen's peak was 22 ppg, so he was usually outscoring them by 0.5 ppg with far worse efficiency - see the 98' ECF, where Pippen's horrible play nearly derailed the title

[expansionera]

Pippen was such a bad second option he led the Bulls in rebounding, steals, blocks, and assist for all six championship runs

At absolute worse he’s the best sidekick in league history, in reality Jordan has never won a playoff series without Scottie

[MadDog]

^^^ That's worst-ever for a sidekick that won multiple rings

Every other sidekick routinely outscored the opposing #1 option, won FMVP, averaged 25+, or otherwise dominated in a way that Pippen never did.

No it isn't. What other sidekick 3-peated twice? Which one outscored the oppositions number two 75% of the time?

[3ba11]

Pippen was such a bad second option he led the Bulls in rebounding, steals, blocks, and assist for all six championship runs

At absolute worse he’s the best sidekick in league history, in reality Jordan has never won a playoff series without Scottie


Jordan led the Bulls in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside Pippen, including 3 of the title runs (91', 93', 97') - stop listening to Shannon Sharpe - he's a highly-paid liar

So Jordan doubled Pippen's playoff scoring, while averaging more assists and assist percentage and also getting more DPOY votes every year and taking every big shot (100% clutch load) - that's the goat load

[GrayGoat]

Op has never made this thread before.

[rmt]

He's the only sidekick that won multiple Finals while averaging 15.7 ppg on 40% and never averaged over 21 - Pippen not only scored the least but his efficiency is worst-ever for a winning sidekick.

Every other sidekick that won multiple rings was a better scorer or won FMVP

People forget that scoring is what determines whether a player is a 2nd option or not - if a 2nd option doesn't score efficiently or adequately, then they aren't a 2nd option.. So when you guys say that "scoring isn't everything" - you're lying - that's what determines if a player is 2nd option or not.. So when you laud Pippen's hustle or defense as a bandaid for his bad scoring, you're conceding that Jordan won with a defensive role player as sidekick - the worst-scoring sidekick in history - a guy that couldn't score so you have to pretend/lionize role player stuff.


Tony Parker averaged 14.0 points on 38.6%FG - he was 20 years old and a 2nd year NBA player (not 30 years old in his 8th NBA season). And please don't even attempt to convince anyone that 20 year old Parker (or at any time) was a better defensive player than Pippen.

[3ba11]

No it isn't. What other sidekick 3-peated twice?





Pippen had the worst production of any winning sidekick that won multiple rings, so Jordan won the 3-peat IN SPITE of Pippen - any other winning sidekick was a higher producer and would allow MJ to win easier without the many scares the Bulls had along the way, and also allows victory from 88-90' and 95'..





Which one outscored the oppositions number two 75% of the time?





Winning sidekicks outscore the opposing #1 option like Wade in the 13' Finals or Kyrie in 16'... AD averaged more than the entire league in the bubble..

So outscoring the opposing 2nd option 75% of the time is the same as Jason Terry in 2011, or Pau in 2009, or Klay in 15', or Rip in 04', and therefore a lower tier of sidekick than the elite 1st option sidekicks that outscore opposing #1 options, win FMVP, or otherwise produce elite 1st option stats (25+).

[3ba11]

Tony Parker averaged 14.0 points on 38.6%FG - he was 20 years old and a 2nd year NBA player (not 30 years old in his 8th NBA season). And please don't even attempt to convince anyone that 20 year old Parker (or at any time) was a better defensive player than Pippen.


Tony Parker averaged 24 on 53% and won FMVP in 2007

Everyone in history that won 3 rings needed a sidekick to win FMVP or average 25+ for at least 1 of the Finals.. But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win 3 with Pippen

[MadDog]

Pippen had multiple series outscoring the number one option. In fact, 91 Pippen outscored every number one in 3/4 of his series. You're also comparing guys like Jason Terry who played just 4 series. Pippen had 24 of them under his belt. :confusedshrug: That's sustained consistency. Name another sidekick who's played at least a SIMILAR number of playoff games, and maintained like production.

[TheCorporation]

When they forget about the other 80% of basketball:

Rebounds, Assists, Steals, and Blocks

https://i.postimg.cc/y8ZDM6h0/pipSavedJordan.png

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs


Outscoring the opposing 2nd option 75% of the time during a title run is the standard for the lower tier of winning sidekick (Klay, Pau, Pippen, Jason Terry, Rip, Lowry/Siakam), while the top tier of winning sidekick routinely outscores the #1 option, wins FMVP, or otherwise averages elite 1st option stats (Kareem, McHale, Worthy, Dumars, Kobe, Tony Parker, Wade, Iggy, Kyrie, Curry, Middleton).

However, out of the lower tier sidekicks, Pippen has by far the worst efficiency (he's the least efficient winning sidekick ever), which makes him the worst-scoring sidekick that ever won multiple chips.

[3ba11]

Pippen had multiple series outscoring the number one option. In fact, 91 Pippen outscored every number one in 3/4 of his series. You're also comparing guys like Jason Terry who played just 4 series. Pippen had 24 of them under his belt. :confusedshrug: That's sustained consistency. Name another sidekick who's played at least a SIMILAR number of playoff games, and maintained like production.


Out of those 24 series, how many times did Pippen outscore the opposing 1st option (almost never) or achieve elite 1st option stats (never)

Ultimately, outscoring the opposing 2nd option 75% of the time during a title run is the standard for the lower tier of winning sidekick (Klay, Pau, Pippen, Jason Terry, Rip, Lowry/Siakam), while the top tier of winning sidekick routinely outscores the #1 option, wins FMVP, or otherwise averages elite 1st option stats (Kareem, McHale, Worthy, Dumars, Kobe, Tony Parker, Wade, Iggy, Kyrie, Curry, Middleton).

It's important to note that out of the lower tier sidekicks, Pippen has by far the worst efficiency (he's the least efficient winning sidekick ever), which makes him the worst-scoring sidekick that ever won multiple chips.

[AirBonner]

Out of those 24 series, how many times did Pippen outscore the opposing 1st option (almost never) or achieve elite 1st option stats (never)

Ultimately, outscoring the opposing 2nd option 75% of the time during a title run is the standard for the lower tier of winning sidekick (Klay, Pau, Pippen, Jason Terry, Rip, Lowry/Siakam), while the top tier of winning sidekick routinely outscores the #1 option, wins FMVP, or otherwise averages elite 1st option stats (Kareem, McHale, Worthy, Dumars, Kobe, Tony Parker, Wade, Iggy, Kyrie, Curry, Middleton).

It's important to note that out of the lower tier sidekicks, Pippen has by far the worst efficiency (he's the least efficient winning sidekick ever), which makes him the worst-scoring sidekick that ever won multiple chips.

Thread cliffs: op is wrong and still can’t cope with 2016

[3ba11]

Thread cliffs: op is wrong and still can’t cope with 2016


Revised Thread Cliffs


Among all winning sidekicks in 3-pointer history (including 1-time winners), Pippen has the lowest or nearly the lowest PPG, while his worst-ever efficiency makes him the worst-scoring sidekick ever.

[StrongLurk]

Remember people, OP considers Magic Johnson a 3rd and sometimes 4th option for the 80's Lakers and NOT a top 10 player of all time. He also thinks the same about Bill Russell.

[3ba11]

Remember people, OP considers Magic Johnson a 3rd and sometimes 4th option for the 80's Lakers and NOT a top 10 player of all time. He also thinks the same about Bill Russell.


I've always had Magic/Russell in my top 10

You can't avoid that Pippen had the lowest or nearly the lowest PPG of any winning sidekick, so his worst-ever efficiency on top of that makes him the worst-scoring sidekick ever.

[SouBeachTalents]

Forget 2nd options. Let's see how this scrub Pippen compares to the other teams best player

1991 FR
Pippen: 20/9/5/3 55%TS
Ewing: 17/10/2 47%TS

1991 ECSF
Pippen: 23/9/6 61%TS
Barkley: 26/10/5 67%TS

1991 ECF
Pippen: 22/8/5/3/2 56%TS
Isiah: 17/5/6 49%TS

1991 Finals
Pippen: 21/9/7 53%TS
Magic: 19/8/12 61%TS

1992 ECF
Pippen: 20/11/6/2/2 54%TS
Price: 19/2/5 61%TS

1992 Finals
Pippen: 21/8/8 56%TS
Drexler: 25/8/5 52%TS

1993 ECSF
Pippen: 18/6/5/3 51%TS
Price: 14/2/6 64%TS

1993 ECF
Pippen: 23/7/4 57%TS
Ewing: 26/11/3 57%TS

1996 FR
Pippen: 20/11/7/3/2 64%TS
Mourning: 18/6/1 57%TS

1997 FR
Pippen: 17/9/3 50%TS
Webber: 16/8/3 70%TS

1997 ECSF
Pippen: 22/6/6 52%TS
Blaylock: 21/7/6 58%TS

1997 ECF
Pippen: 17/5/3 53%TS
Hardaway: 17/5/6 49%TS

1997 Finals
Pippen: 20/8/4/2/2 54%TS
Malone: 24/11/4 49%TS

1998 FR
Pippen: 18/7/6 53%TS
Williams: 7/14/2 44%TS

1998 ECSF
Pippen: 18/7/5/3 54%TS
Rice: 23/5/2 52%TS

1998 ECF
Pippen: 17/8/5 46%TS
Reggie: 17/2/2 59%TS

Again, these are the other teams best players, I haven't even used a 2nd option in any of these series :lol

[NBAGOAT]

Forget 2nd options. Let's see how this scrub Pippen compares to the other teams best player

1991 FR
Pippen: 20/9/5/3 55%TS
Ewing: 17/10/2 47%TS

1991 ECSF
Pippen: 23/9/6 61%TS
Barkley: 26/10/5 67%TS

1991 ECF
Pippen: 22/8/5/3/2 56%TS
Isiah: 17/5/6 49%TS

1991 Finals
Pippen: 21/9/7 53%TS
Magic: 19/8/12 61%TS

1992 ECF
Pippen: 20/11/6/2/2 54%TS
Price: 19/2/5 61%TS

1992 Finals
Pippen: 21/8/8 56%TS
Drexler: 25/8/5 52%TS

1993 ECSF
Pippen: 18/6/5/3 51%TS
Price: 14/2/6 64%TS

1993 ECF
Pippen: 23/7/4 57%TS
Ewing: 26/11/3 57%TS

1996 FR
Pippen: 20/11/7/3/2 64%TS
Mourning: 18/6/1 57%TS

1997 FR
Pippen: 17/9/3 50%TS
Webber: 16/8/3 70%TS

1997 ECSF
Pippen: 22/6/6 52%TS
Blaylock: 21/7/6 58%TS

1997 ECF
Pippen: 17/5/3 53%TS
Hardaway: 17/5/6 49%TS

1997 Finals
Pippen: 20/8/4/2/2 54%TS
Malone: 24/11/4 49%TS

1998 FR
Pippen: 18/7/6 53%TS
Williams: 7/14/2 44%TS

1998 ECSF
Pippen: 18/7/5/3 54%TS
Rice: 23/5/2 52%TS

1998 ECF
Pippen: 17/8/5 46%TS
Reggie: 17/2/2 59%TS

Again, these are the other teams best players, I haven't even used a 2nd option in any of these series :lol

Yea it’s over for 3ball lol. Pippen is just better than a lot of other teams best players lol. It makes sense when you realize he’s consistently in the top 10 and sometimes gets top 5 consideration. What I claimed is pretty much a fact based on all nba teams/mvp voting/consensus opinion but 3ball tries to dispute that with ppg or other nit picky arguments that just don’t change the big picture. He’ll say guys like Payton and Stockton are clearly better but has he really done a deep dive into their playoff stats like he has for pippen lol? Those guys have stinkers he kill pippen for :lol

[97 bulls]

Yea it’s over for 3ball lol. Pippen is just better than a lot of other teams best players lol. It makes sense when you realize he’s consistently in the top 10 and sometimes gets top 5 consideration. What I claimed is pretty much a fact based on all nba teams/mvp voting/consensus opinion but 3ball tries to dispute that with ppg or other nit picky arguments that just don’t change the big picture. He’ll say guys like Payton and Stockton are clearly better but has he really done a deep dive into their playoff stats like he has for pippen lol? Those guys have stinkers he kill pippen for :lol

Because 3ball Cherrypicks and then refuses to apply context to his analysis.

[97 bulls]

Forget 2nd options. Let's see how this scrub Pippen compares to the other teams best player

1991 FR
Pippen: 20/9/5/3 55%TS
Ewing: 17/10/2 47%TS

1991 ECSF
Pippen: 23/9/6 61%TS
Barkley: 26/10/5 67%TS

1991 ECF
Pippen: 22/8/5/3/2 56%TS
Isiah: 17/5/6 49%TS

1991 Finals
Pippen: 21/9/7 53%TS
Magic: 19/8/12 61%TS

1992 ECF
Pippen: 20/11/6/2/2 54%TS
Price: 19/2/5 61%TS

1992 Finals
Pippen: 21/8/8 56%TS
Drexler: 25/8/5 52%TS

1993 ECSF
Pippen: 18/6/5/3 51%TS
Price: 14/2/6 64%TS

1993 ECF
Pippen: 23/7/4 57%TS
Ewing: 26/11/3 57%TS

1996 FR
Pippen: 20/11/7/3/2 64%TS
Mourning: 18/6/1 57%TS

1997 FR
Pippen: 17/9/3 50%TS
Webber: 16/8/3 70%TS

1997 ECSF
Pippen: 22/6/6 52%TS
Blaylock: 21/7/6 58%TS

1997 ECF
Pippen: 17/5/3 53%TS
Hardaway: 17/5/6 49%TS

1997 Finals
Pippen: 20/8/4/2/2 54%TS
Malone: 24/11/4 49%TS

1998 FR
Pippen: 18/7/6 53%TS
Williams: 7/14/2 44%TS

1998 ECSF
Pippen: 18/7/5/3 54%TS
Rice: 23/5/2 52%TS

1998 ECF
Pippen: 17/8/5 46%TS
Reggie: 17/2/2 59%TS

Again, these are the other teams best players, I haven't even used a 2nd option in any of these series :lol

And this doesn't take Pippens defensive impact into account.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

They were both perfect for each other.

Pippen was perfect for Jordan because he's a defensive anchor, jordan's teams sucked at defense prior to the 1987-88 season.

Jordan was perfect for Pippen due to Jordan's extremely high usage, clutch shot making ability and 1 on 1. Pippen sucks at going 1 on 1 and always had pretty low usage for a superstar.

[97 bulls]

Forget 2nd options. Let's see how this scrub Pippen compares to the other teams best player

1991 FR
Pippen: 20/9/5/3 55%TS
Ewing: 17/10/2 47%TS

1991 ECSF
Pippen: 23/9/6 61%TS
Barkley: 26/10/5 67%TS

1991 ECF
Pippen: 22/8/5/3/2 56%TS
Isiah: 17/5/6 49%TS

1991 Finals
Pippen: 21/9/7 53%TS
Magic: 19/8/12 61%TS

1992 ECF
Pippen: 20/11/6/2/2 54%TS
Price: 19/2/5 61%TS

1992 Finals
Pippen: 21/8/8 56%TS
Drexler: 25/8/5 52%TS

1993 ECSF
Pippen: 18/6/5/3 51%TS
Price: 14/2/6 64%TS

1993 ECF
Pippen: 23/7/4 57%TS
Ewing: 26/11/3 57%TS

1996 FR
Pippen: 20/11/7/3/2 64%TS
Mourning: 18/6/1 57%TS

1997 FR
Pippen: 17/9/3 50%TS
Webber: 16/8/3 70%TS

1997 ECSF
Pippen: 22/6/6 52%TS
Blaylock: 21/7/6 58%TS

1997 ECF
Pippen: 17/5/3 53%TS
Hardaway: 17/5/6 49%TS

1997 Finals
Pippen: 20/8/4/2/2 54%TS
Malone: 24/11/4 49%TS

1998 FR
Pippen: 18/7/6 53%TS
Williams: 7/14/2 44%TS

1998 ECSF
Pippen: 18/7/5/3 54%TS
Rice: 23/5/2 52%TS

1998 ECF
Pippen: 17/8/5 46%TS
Reggie: 17/2/2 59%TS

Again, these are the other teams best players, I haven't even used a 2nd option in any of these series :lol

Looking at this info, I think its fair to say that had Pippen had a player slightly under his caliber in place of Jordan, the Bulls probably win the Championship in 91, 97, and 98 if he doesn't get hurt. He literally outplayed the oppositions best player in every round in those particular years.

[StrongLurk]

I've always had Magic/Russell in my top 10

You can't avoid that Pippen had the lowest or nearly the lowest PPG of any winning sidekick, so his worst-ever efficiency on top of that makes him the worst-scoring sidekick ever.

You base first/second options on scoring, which means in your mind Magic and Bill were third or fourth options on their teams - sometimes ever lower for Bill. So, how can you have players in the top ten of all time who were only third and fourth options on their teams?

Using your Lebron logic, Magic/Bill only played on superteams and never shouldered the scoring burdens for ANY of their rings (which is far worse than Lebron who was clearly the first scoring option on the vast majority of his rings/playoff runs).

So care to explain how you have Magic/Bill in the top ten?

[ELITEpower23]

Relative to the era he wasn't. From 91-93 & 96-98, Pippen outscored every number two in 18/24 series.

Yikes so the 90s was a trash-expansion era after all

[8Ball]

Forget 2nd options. Let's see how this scrub Pippen compares to the other teams best player

1991 FR
Pippen: 20/9/5/3 55%TS
Ewing: 17/10/2 47%TS

1991 ECSF
Pippen: 23/9/6 61%TS
Barkley: 26/10/5 67%TS

1991 ECF
Pippen: 22/8/5/3/2 56%TS
Isiah: 17/5/6 49%TS

1991 Finals
Pippen: 21/9/7 53%TS
Magic: 19/8/12 61%TS

1992 ECF
Pippen: 20/11/6/2/2 54%TS
Price: 19/2/5 61%TS

1992 Finals
Pippen: 21/8/8 56%TS
Drexler: 25/8/5 52%TS

1993 ECSF
Pippen: 18/6/5/3 51%TS
Price: 14/2/6 64%TS

1993 ECF
Pippen: 23/7/4 57%TS
Ewing: 26/11/3 57%TS

1996 FR
Pippen: 20/11/7/3/2 64%TS
Mourning: 18/6/1 57%TS

1997 FR
Pippen: 17/9/3 50%TS
Webber: 16/8/3 70%TS

1997 ECSF
Pippen: 22/6/6 52%TS
Blaylock: 21/7/6 58%TS

1997 ECF
Pippen: 17/5/3 53%TS
Hardaway: 17/5/6 49%TS

1997 Finals
Pippen: 20/8/4/2/2 54%TS
Malone: 24/11/4 49%TS

1998 FR
Pippen: 18/7/6 53%TS
Williams: 7/14/2 44%TS

1998 ECSF
Pippen: 18/7/5/3 54%TS
Rice: 23/5/2 52%TS

1998 ECF
Pippen: 17/8/5 46%TS
Reggie: 17/2/2 59%TS

Again, these are the other teams best players, I haven't even used a 2nd option in any of these series :lol

Its over.

I am going to save this post for future reference.

[97 bulls]

Its over.

I am going to save this post for future reference.

Lol

[MadDog]

Yikes so the 90s was a trash-expansion era after all

By the OP's logic? There is no other alternative :confusedshrug:

[3ba11]

Forget 2nd options. Let's see how this scrub Pippen compares to the other teams best player

1991 FR
Pippen: 20/9/5/3 55%TS
Ewing: 17/10/2 47%TS

1991 ECSF
Pippen: 23/9/6 61%TS
Barkley: 26/10/5 67%TS

1991 ECF
Pippen: 22/8/5/3/2 56%TS
Isiah: 17/5/6 49%TS

1991 Finals
Pippen: 21/9/7 53%TS
Magic: 19/8/12 61%TS

1992 ECF
Pippen: 20/11/6/2/2 54%TS
Price: 19/2/5 61%TS

1992 Finals
Pippen: 21/8/8 56%TS
Drexler: 25/8/5 52%TS

1993 ECSF
Pippen: 18/6/5/3 51%TS
Price: 14/2/6 64%TS

1993 ECF
Pippen: 23/7/4 57%TS
Ewing: 26/11/3 57%TS

1996 FR
Pippen: 20/11/7/3/2 64%TS
Mourning: 18/6/1 57%TS

1997 FR
Pippen: 17/9/3 50%TS
Webber: 16/8/3 70%TS

1997 ECSF
Pippen: 22/6/6 52%TS
Blaylock: 21/7/6 58%TS

1997 ECF
Pippen: 17/5/3 53%TS
Hardaway: 17/5/6 49%TS

1997 Finals
Pippen: 20/8/4/2/2 54%TS
Malone: 24/11/4 49%TS

1998 FR
Pippen: 18/7/6 53%TS
Williams: 7/14/2 44%TS

1998 ECSF
Pippen: 18/7/5/3 54%TS
Rice: 23/5/2 52%TS

1998 ECF
Pippen: 17/8/5 46%TS
Reggie: 17/2/2 59%TS

Again, these are the other teams best players, I haven't even used a 2nd option in any of these series :lol


Your post of lies and fabrications shows that you have nothing and can't refute the points being made - you have nothing left, so you make up a bunch of stuff

So the points stand:

Outscoring the opposing 2nd option 75% of the time during a title run is the standard for the lower tier of winning sidekick (Klay, Pau, Pippen, Jason Terry, Rip, Lowry/Siakam), while the top tier sidekicks routinely outscores the #1 option, wins FMVP, or otherwise averages elite 1st option stats (Kareem, McHale, Worthy, Dumars, Kobe, Tony Parker, Wade, Iggy, Kyrie, Curry, Middleton).

Ultimately, Pippen had among the lowest PPG of any winning sidekick + worst efficiency = worst-scoring sidekick ever

[StrongLurk]

You base first/second options on scoring, which means in your mind Magic and Bill were third or fourth options on their teams - sometimes ever lower for Bill. So, how can you have players in the top ten of all time who were only third and fourth options on their teams?

Using your Lebron logic, Magic/Bill only played on superteams and never shouldered the scoring burdens for ANY of their rings (which is far worse than Lebron who was clearly the first scoring option on the vast majority of his rings/playoff runs).

So care to explain how you have Magic/Bill in the top ten?

OP I'm waiting.

[3ba11]

OP I'm waiting.


You're right

I already only had Magic at #10 but he clearly should be lower based on your logic (our logic)

And it's time to keep it real on Russell - can you say..... CARRIED???.... :yaohappy:... 13 ppg bum

Thanks for providing the additional insight

[3ba11]

https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg

[3ba11]

.
Shortest Thread Cliffs


Pippen had among the lowest PPG of any winning sidekick + worst-ever efficiency = worst-scoring sidekick ever

[StrongLurk]

You're right

I already only had Magic at #10 but he clearly should be lower based on your logic (our logic)

And it's time to keep it real on Russell - can you say..... CARRIED???.... :yaohappy:... 13 ppg bum

Thanks for providing the additional insight

Lol bro you are such a loser.

At least tell us you get paid to post on ISH...right? Otherwise there isn't anything redeemable about you.

[000]

You're right

I already only had Magic at #10 but he clearly should be lower based on your logic (our logic)

And it's time to keep it real on Russell - can you say..... CARRIED???.... :yaohappy:... 13 ppg bum

Thanks for providing the additional insight

:facepalm

[3ba11]

The team wasn't awful. The chicago bulls won 55 games in 1994 without Jordan due to Scottie Pippen being a top 5 player at the time. The 90s was just lower scoring compared to today.


1991 FR
Pippen: 20/9/5/3 55%TS
Ewing: 17/10/2 47%TS


1991 ECSF
Pippen: 23/9/6 61%TS
Barkley: 26/10/5 67%TS... ^^^ more scoring, rebs, efficiency


1991 ECF
Pippen: 22/8/5/3/2 56%TS
Isiah: 17/5/6 49%TS


1991 Finals
Pippen: 21/9/7 53%TS
Magic: 19/8/12 61%TS


1992 ECF
Pippen: 20/11/6/2/2 54%TS
Price: 19/2/5 61%TS


1992 Finals
Pippen: 21/8/8 56%TS
Drexler: 25/8/5 52%TS... ^^^ far more scoring, more rebs


1993 ECSF
Pippen: 18/6/5/3 51%TS
Price: 14/2/6 64%TS


1993 ECF
Pippen: 23/7/4 57%TS
Ewing: 26/11/3 57%TS.... far more scoring, more rebs, efficiency


1996 FR
Pippen: 20/11/7/3/2 64%TS
Mourning: 18/6/1 57%TS


1997 FR
Pippen: 17/9/3 50%TS
Strickland: 20/5/8 70%TS.... ^^^ far more scoring & assists, efficiency


1997 ECSF
Pippen: 22/6/6 52%TS
Blaylock: 21/7/6 58%TS


1997 ECF
Pippen: 16.8/5/3 53%TS
Hardaway: 17.2/5/6 49%TS.... ^^^ more scoring and double assists


1997 Finals
Pippen: 20/8/4/2/2 54%TS
Malone: 24/11/4 49%TS..... ^^^ far more scoring & rebs


1998 FR
Pippen: 18.0/7/6 53%TS
Douglas: 18.3/3/8 44%TS.... ^^^ more scoring & assists


1998 ECSF
Pippen: 18/7/5/3 54%TS
Rice: 23/5/2 52%TS....... ^^^ far more scoring


1998 ECF
Pippen: 16.6 on 46%TS
Smits: 16.2 on 63% TS
Reggie: 17.4 on 59%TS..... ^^^ more scoring, far better efficiency





^^^^ only 7 of the 16 series you showed had Pippen outscoring the opposing 1st option, and you omitted 8 series where he was destroyed..

So Pippen outscored the opposing 1st option in less than 1/3 of the series during title runs (7/24), and 75% of the time he outscored the opposing 2nd option - again, this matches the lower tier of winning sidekick that rarely outscores opposing 1st options and never achieves elite 1st option stats or wins FMVP (Klay, Jason Terry, Pippen, Rip, Pau), while the top tier does all these things routinely (Curry, Kobe, Kareem, McHale, Worthy, Tony Parker, Iggy, Dumars, Wade, AD, Kyrie, Middleton).

And we've only considered title runs - Pippen caused loss from 88-90' and 95' by getting destroyed in every series - ditto from 99-03'... He was infact outscored by opposing 2nd option in half the series of his career - this proves that he wasn't a legit 2nd option, while his poor efficiency also confirms that he couldn't handle the load/volume... Ultimatley, he had arguably the lowest PPG of any winning sidekick + worst efficiency ever = worst-scoring sidekick that ever won

[3ba11]

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TLDR: Excluding 1994 when Pippen was a 1st option, Pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer in 12 of 34 series as a Bull (35%), and was matched with far better efficiency in 2 other critical series (98' ECF, 95' ECSF) - so that's 14 of 34 series as a Bull (41%) where his scoring was inferior to the opposing 2nd option.

During title runs, Pippen was outscored 25% of the time by opposing 2nd options, which matches the lower tier of winning sidekicks that never won FMVP or achieved elite 1st option stats (true 2nd options), such as Klay, Pau, Pippen, Rip Hamilton, and Jason Terry.. This caliber is far below the top tier of winning sidekicks that usually outscore opposing 1st options, achieve elite 1st options stats or win FMVP (Curry, Kobe, Kareem, Wade, Worthy, AD, etc).

For Pippen's career, he was outscored by opposing 2nd options in 19 of 41 series that he wasn't 1st option (nearly 50%) - so Pippen wasn't a legit 2nd option because he was outscored by opposing 2nd options half the time and has low peak scoring ability/PPG, while his worst-ever efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg) confirms that he couldn't handle the volume/load.. Ultimately, his low PPG among winning sidekicks and worst-ever efficiency make him the worst-scoring sidekick that ever won.

The most common rings are those won with elite 1st options playing sidekick like Kobe, Curry or Kareem ("1b" sidekicks that have achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP in their career), while it's much less common to win rings with true 2nd options that never achieved FMVP or 25 ppg (Klay, Pippen, Pau, Rip Hamilton, Jason Terry, Horry) - MJ has 6 rings with these true 2nd options, which is why he's goat.



* From 1999-2003, Pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer in 7 of 7 series - these numbers will be added to Pippen's Bull career, shown below:


1988 1st Round

Pippen'....... 10.6 ppg... 47.1 fg... 49.4 ts
L Nance...... 16.8 ppg... 53.1 fg... 58.4 ts


1988 2nd Round

Pippen......... 9.4 ppg... 45.8 fg... 48.5 ts
Dantley...... 18.6 ppg... 50.0 fg... 58.9 ts


1989 1st Round

Pippen....... 15.0 ppg... 39.7 fg... 51.0 ts
L Nance..... 19.4 ppg... 55.1 fg... 58.9 ts


1989 2nd Round

Pippen....... 14.8 ppg... 58.1 fg... 64.5 ts
Newman.... 15.5 ppg... 45.8 fg... 56.0 ts


1989 ECF

Pippen......... 9.4 ppg... 40.4 fg... 45.3 ts
Johnson..... 13.7 ppg... 53.3 fg... 59.6 ts


1990 1st Round

Pippen....... 22.5 ppg... 57.1 fg... 63.4 ts
Pierce........ 22.3 ppg... 46.7 fg... 60.4 ts


1990 2nd Round

Pippen........ 20.8 ppg... 53.3 fg... 58.1 ts
Hawkins...... 19.8 ppg... 47.7 fg... 62.6 ts


1990 ECF

Pippen....... 16.6 ppg... 42.6 fg... 52.0 ts
Isiah'......... 17.6 ppg... 39.0 fg... 51.0 ts


1991 1st Round

Pippen....... 19.7 ppg... 50.0 fg... 55.2 ts
Ewing........ 16.7 ppg... 40.0 fg... 47.3 ts


1991 2nd Round

Pippen........ 23.4 ppg... 57.1 fg... 60.9 ts
Hawkins...... 19.8 ppg... 43.1 fg... 64.4 ts


1991 ECF

Pippen......... 22.5 ppg... 47.5 fg... 56.3 ts
Aguirre........ 16.8 ppg... 45.3 fg... 55.4 ts


1991 Finals

Pippen'...... 20.6 ppg... 45.3 fg... 52.7 ts
Magic........ 18.3 ppg... 43.1 fg... 61.2 ts


1992 1st Round

Pippen....... 24.0 ppg... 55.3 fg... 63.0 ts
Ewing........ 19.0 ppg... 37.5 fg... 42.5 ts


1992 2nd Round

Pippen'....... 16.0 ppg... 40.4 fg... 49.3 ts
X-Man........ 18.6 ppg... 49.6 fg... 52.7 ts


1992 ECF

Pippen....... 19.8 ppg... 47.3 fg... 53.6 ts
Nance........ 17.8 ppg... 46.7 fg... 51.9 ts


1992 Finals

Pippen'....... 20.8 ppg... 48.4 fg... 56.0 ts
Porter......... 16.2 ppg... 47.1 fg... 57.1 ts


1993 1st Round

Pippen...... 15.3 ppg... 42.2 fg... 45.7 ts
Willis........ 16.7 ppg... 46.7 fg... 48.9 ts


1993 2nd Round

Pippen......... 18.3 ppg... 47.5 fg... 51.0 ts
Daughtery.... 16.0 ppg... 56.1 fg... 56.1 ts


1993 ECF

Pippen'...... 22.5 ppg... 51.0 fg... 57.3 ts
Starks....... 15.2 ppg... 45.3 fg... 54.6 ts


1993 Finals

Pippen...... 21.2 ppg... 43.9 fg... 45.9 ts
Majerle..... 17.2 ppg... 44.3 fg... 58.7 ts


1994 1st Round

Pippen...... 25.3 ppg... 49.3 fg... 53.7 ts
Mills......... 17.0 ppg... 50.0 fg... 59.5 ts


1994 2nd Round

Pippen...... 21.7 ppg... 40.5 fg... 51.3 ts
Ewing....... 22.9 ppg... 53.0 fg... 58.1 ts


1995 1st Round

Pippen........ 16.0 ppg... 51.2 fg... 60.2 ts
Johnson...... 20.8 ppg... 47.7 fg... 54.6 ts


1995 2nd Round

Pippen'...... 19.0 ppg... 40.9 fg... 52.2 ts
Penny........ 18.5 ppg... 44.0 fg... 54.7 ts


1996 1st Round

Pippen..,,..... 19.7 ppg... 55.6 fg... 64.0 ts
Hardaway'.... 17.7 ppg... 46.5 fg... 57.5 ts


1996 2nd Round

Pippen..,,,,,.... 15.6 ppg... 33.0 fg... 41.6 ts
Oakley........... 13.4 ppg... 50.0 fg... 57.7 ts


1996 ECF

Pippen'...... 18.5 ppg... 45.3 fg... 50.8 ts
Penny........ 25.5 ppg... 46.9 fg... 55.2 ts


1996 Finals

Pippen...... 15.7 ppg... 34.0 fg... 42.9 ts
Payton...... 18.0 ppg... 44.4 fg... 53.2 ts


1997 1st Round

Pippen....... 16.7 ppg... 38.9 fg... 49.8 ts
Howard...... 18.7 ppg... 45.5 fg... 53.9 ts


1997 2nd Round

Pippen...... 22.2 ppg... 42.9 fg... 52.4 ts
Smith....... 17.6 ppg... 31.9 fg... 49.1 ts


1997 ECF

Pippen......... 16.8 ppg... 41.7 fg... 52.6 ts
Mourning..... 15.6 ppg... 46.8 fg... 56.2 ts


1997 Finals

Pippen....... 20.0 ppg... 42.1 fg... 54.1 ts
Stockton.... 15.0 ppg... 50.0 fg... 61.3 ts


1998 1st Round

Pippen....... 18.0 ppg... 43.6 fg... 53.1 ts
Kitttles...... 16.3 ppg... 42.5 fg... 54.6 ts


1998 2nd Round

Pippen....... 17.8 ppg... 44.3 fg... 53.5 ts
Mason........ 12.6 ppg... 51.0 fg... 55.3 ts


1998 ECF

Pippen....... 16.6 ppg... 39.2 fg... 46.3 ts
Smits........ 16.3 ppg... 55.4 fg... 62.8 ts


1998 Finals

Pippen.......... 15.7 ppg... 41.0 fg... 50.2 ts
Hornacek...... 10.7 ppg... 41.1 fg... 50.1 ts


* From 1999-2003, Pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer in 7 of 7 series - these numbers will be added to Pippen's Bull career, shown above