View Full Version : Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #17
dankok8
10-04-2021, 04:08 PM
List
#1 - Michael Jordan
#2 - Lebron James
#3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
#4 - Bill Russell
#5 - Wilt Chamberlain
#6 - Magic Johnson
#7 - Shaquille O'Neal
#8 - Tim Duncan
#9 - Larry Bird
#10 - Hakeem Olajuwon
#11 - Kobe Bryant
#12 - Stephen Curry
#13 - Oscar Robertson
#14 - Jerry West
#15 - Moses Malone
#16 - Julius Erving
#17 - NOW VOTING
Top 25 Player Pool
https://i.postimg.cc/Vsq1HTDz/Top-25-Candidates.jpg
For a full player pool and vote breakdowns see the link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ARaI3VCNauULLYL1Yu24HIRY768FYQdip56sp6uRFGk/edit?usp=sharing).
Everyone may post in this thread but only votes from serious contributors will be considered. Not everyone has to write an essay but there should be some justification or explanation and some coherent arguments being presented. I encourage people to be open-minded and willing to adjust their rankings in response to strong evidence. Debate and discussion is encouraged.
Opening Vote Tally
Kevin Durant - 9 (Manny98, 8Ball, 1987_Lakers, nayte, MadDog, kuniva_dAMiGhTy, Chick Stern, Bankaii, outofstomach)
Kevin Garnett - 3 (Cold soul, SaintzFury13, TheCorporation)
Dirk Nowitzki - 2 (Gonzaldo, ELITEpower23)
Kawhi Leonard - 2 (kawhileonard2, HBK_Kliq_2)
Karl Malone - 1 (Magic is Magic)
John Havlicek - 1 (Jasper)
Kobe_Bryant
10-04-2021, 04:16 PM
I vote KG
dankok8
10-04-2021, 04:17 PM
I also vote for KG again.
Kobe_Bryant
10-04-2021, 04:18 PM
KG damn it.
I know right. on realgm garnett is above me. THIS IS THE LAST STRAW ISH
ENOUGH WITH UNDERRATING GUYS FFS
Kenny continuing his epic month long meltdown
I know right. on realgm garnett is above me. THIS IS THE LAST STRAW ISH
ENOUGH WITH UNDERRATING GUYS FFS
Back to the cauldron Kobe
NBAGOAT
10-04-2021, 04:22 PM
I’m also picking kg.
Kobe_Bryant
10-04-2021, 04:22 PM
we goin with dirk next round boyz
shut it sown. KG takes this one
SouBeachTalents
10-04-2021, 04:23 PM
Durant
jalbert009
10-04-2021, 04:26 PM
KG for me.
L.Kizzle
10-04-2021, 04:28 PM
Damn, KG better than not only Barkely and Malone but Durant now. ISH bout to rewrite history.
Damn, KG better than not only Barkely and Malone but Durant now. ISH bout to rewrite history.
Karl Malone was dogshit in the playoffs compared to his regular season stats lol. Atrocious efficiency. Barkley didn’t play defense.
Kobe_Bryant
10-04-2021, 04:44 PM
Damn, KG better than not only Barkely and Malone but Durant now. ISH bout to rewrite history.
well we already did it with lebron at 2. me at 11 and curry at 12... why not put Durant out of the top 20
I mean most players have me top 5 and still ahead of lebron. and Durant/curry around the same spot in the top 15 to 20.. its only fitting that we completely mess this list up to appease the hoard of curry/lebron fans on ISH that despise Durant and myself
outofstomach
10-04-2021, 04:52 PM
durant again… kevin garnett was a fantastic all around player, (although i personally think his playmaking left a bit to be desired) but durant is a generational once in a lifetime talent, literally an anomaly. he may not be the best defender in comparison to Garnett, but he is no slouch whatsoever.
L.Kizzle
10-04-2021, 05:18 PM
Karl Malone was dogshit in the playoffs compared to his regular season stats lol. Atrocious efficiency. Barkley didn’t play defense.
With all that said, I'm taking both over Garnett.
Lol at Malone being trash in the playoffs. His numbers were nearly identical in playoffs and regular season besides a slightly lower FG %
30+ point playoff games.
Malone = 54
Barkley = 28
Garnett = 9
With all that said, I'm taking both over Garnett.
Lol at Malone being trash in the playoffs. His numbers were nearly identical in playoffs and regular season besides a slightly lower FG %
30+ point playoff games.
Malone = 54
Barkley = 28
Garnett = 9
52.6 TS% in the playoffs yikes. 57.7% in the regular season. God tier choking. 50.1% in his 97 playoff run after shooting 60.0% in the regular season :roll:
SouBeachTalents
10-04-2021, 05:26 PM
52.6 TS% in the playoffs yikes. 57.7% in the regular season. God tier choking. 50.1% in his 97 playoff run after shooting 60.0% in the regular season :roll:
Don't forget the '97 Finals
47%, 40%, 45% & 48%TS in Utah's 4 losses
Don't forget the '97 Finals
47%, 40%, 45% & 48%TS in Utah's 4 losses
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Absolutely hideous efficiency
Phoenix
10-04-2021, 05:28 PM
Sticking with my KD pick, but this is the Dirk/ Mailman/ Barkley/ KG/ Robinson range. Buckle up.
L.Kizzle
10-04-2021, 05:30 PM
52.6 TS% in the playoffs yikes. 57.7% in the regular season. God tier choking. 50.1% in his 97 playoff run after shooting 60.0% in the regular season :roll:
Weren't they in the Finals on 97 tho ... he was bad in 97 tho (in all of the series.)
98 Finals he was okay until the last minute of game 6 lol.
Still, give me someone that guarantees me a playoff birth EVERY year. Never missed the playoffs. He never finished under .500 in his career.
Weren't they in the Finals on 97 tho ... he was bad in 97 tho (in all of the series.)
98 Finals he was okay until the last minute of game 6 lol.
Still, give me someone that guarantees me a playoff birth EVERY year. Never missed the playoffs. He never finished under .500 in his career.
No one said Malone wasn’t great in the regular season lol. Too bad he was dreadful in the playoffs.
NBAGOAT
10-04-2021, 05:37 PM
Weren't they in the Finals on 97 tho ... he was bad in 97 tho (in all of the series.)
98 Finals he was okay until the last minute of game 6 lol.
Still, give me someone that guarantees me a playoff birth EVERY year. Never missed the playoffs. He never finished under .500 in his career.
I think Stockton is overrated but having him as a teammate definitely helps with making the playoffs every year
L.Kizzle
10-04-2021, 05:38 PM
No one said Malone wasn’t great in the regular season lol. Too bad he was dreadful in the playoffs.
Was he dreadful in every playoff series, no. Even a majority of them, no. A few out of how many he had a bad showing tho.
PS: My vote is not for Karl, just saying he's over KG.
L.Kizzle
10-04-2021, 05:41 PM
I think Stockton is overrated but having him as a teammate definitely helps with making the playoffs every year
He's literally the same as Malone in the playoffs as well. Identical stats and a slightly lower FG % as well.
NBAGOAT
10-04-2021, 05:48 PM
He's literally the same as Malone in the playoffs as well. Identical stats and a slightly lower FG % as well.
His terrible play in the playoffs doesn’t matter. your reason for putting Malone over others is he was a guaranteed playoff berth. I argue that wasn’t because Malone was better than some other all time greats, having Stockton on his team was a big reason
L.Kizzle
10-04-2021, 06:34 PM
His terrible play in the playoffs doesn’t matter. your reason for putting Malone over others is he was a guaranteed playoff berth. I argue that wasn’t because Malone was better than some other all time greats, having Stockton on his team was a big reason
Karl Malone and Avery Johnson as the PG would make the playoffs.
NBAGOAT
10-04-2021, 06:54 PM
Karl Malone and Avery Johnson as the PG would make the playoffs.
I would disagree then
L.Kizzle
10-04-2021, 07:12 PM
I would disagree then
Would Stockton and Brian Grant make the playoffs tho?
NBAGOAT
10-04-2021, 07:34 PM
Would Stockton and Brian Grant make the playoffs tho?
no. malone is better than stockton obviously but it doesnt mean stockton didnt help them win many more games
dankok8
10-04-2021, 07:46 PM
It is a bit unusual how some posters have touted Lebron (and Kareem) as GOAT candidates because of their longevity but we are in the high teens now and no one is voting for Karl Malone. I personally have become lower on Malone over the years because I generally don't value longevity as much as I did. The value of top players really drops off after their 8-10 prime years anyways. When a guy is at a point that he isn't even good enough to lead a team to a title, his longevity becomes sort of moot. Still with that being said, I will vote for Malone after KG.
NBAGOAT
10-04-2021, 07:49 PM
It is a bit unusual how some posters have touted Lebron (and Kareem) as GOAT candidates because of their longevity but we are in the high teens now and no one is voting for Karl Malone. I personally have become lower on Malone over the years because I generally don't value longevity as much as I did. The value of top players really drops off after their 8-10 prime years anyways. When a guy is at a point that he isn't even good enough to lead a team to a title, his longevity becomes sort of moot. Still with that being said, I will vote for Malone after KG.
malone would coming up for me too. also his prime in unique he was top level for multiple years on top of the usual 8-10 prime year. KG's longevity isnt too far behind however so I still like having him ahead. I personally would've not have gone curry or kd this early
Kobe_Bryant
10-04-2021, 07:55 PM
It is a bit unusual how some posters have touted Lebron (and Kareem) as GOAT candidates because of their longevity but we are in the high teens now and no one is voting for Karl Malone. I personally have become lower on Malone over the years because I generally don't value longevity as much as I did. The value of top players really drops off after their 8-10 prime years anyways. When a guy is at a point that he isn't even good enough to lead a team to a title, his longevity becomes sort of moot. Still with that being said, I will vote for Malone after KG.
longevity only counts for anything if you like the player. if you don't like them then you can ignore their 17th year as 1st team all nba, being 4th all time in regular season and playoff scoring and having the most combined 1st teams in history
It is a bit unusual how some posters have touted Lebron (and Kareem) as GOAT candidates because of their longevity but we are in the high teens now and no one is voting for Karl Malone. I personally have become lower on Malone over the years because I generally don't value longevity as much as I did. The value of top players really drops off after their 8-10 prime years anyways. When a guy is at a point that he isn't even good enough to lead a team to a title, his longevity becomes sort of moot. Still with that being said, I will vote for Malone after KG.
LeBron and Kareem had legendary playoff runs.
Ryoka Narusawa
10-04-2021, 08:47 PM
Kevin Garnett
Phoenix
10-04-2021, 08:59 PM
longevity only counts for anything if you like the player. if you don't like them then you can ignore their 17th year as 1st team all nba, being 4th all time in regular season and playoff scoring and having the most combined 1st teams in history
Lebron>Kobe
L.Kizzle
10-04-2021, 09:06 PM
LeBron and Kareem had legendary playoff runs.
No one was voting for Karl in the top 5 tho. He's definitely good enough for number 17.
Overdrive
10-04-2021, 09:20 PM
KD
8Ball
10-04-2021, 10:09 PM
It is a bit unusual how some posters have touted Lebron (and Kareem) as GOAT candidates because of their longevity but we are in the high teens now and no one is voting for Karl Malone. I personally have become lower on Malone over the years because I generally don't value longevity as much as I did. The value of top players really drops off after their 8-10 prime years anyways. When a guy is at a point that he isn't even good enough to lead a team to a title, his longevity becomes sort of moot. Still with that being said, I will vote for Malone after KG.
Malone doesn't have enough monster games in playoffs.
TheCorporation
10-04-2021, 10:11 PM
Malone doesn't have enough monster games in playoffs.
+1
He has a mediocre peak, mediocre defense, zero rings, and 2 finals total. Not top 20 worthy
L.Kizzle
10-04-2021, 10:13 PM
Malone doesn't have enough monster games in playoffs.
Multiple 40 point games and a 50 piece aren't monster games?
SaintzFury13
10-04-2021, 10:16 PM
+1
He has a mediocre peak, mediocre defense, zero rings, and 2 finals total. Not top 20 worthy
You must not have watched the mailman play if you thought his defense was mediocre.
And because I feel like correcting people, he has three finals appearances, not two.
1987_Lakers
10-04-2021, 10:18 PM
It is a bit unusual how some posters have touted Lebron (and Kareem) as GOAT candidates because of their longevity but we are in the high teens now and no one is voting for Karl Malone. I personally have become lower on Malone over the years because I generally don't value longevity as much as I did. The value of top players really drops off after their 8-10 prime years anyways. When a guy is at a point that he isn't even good enough to lead a team to a title, his longevity becomes sort of moot. Still with that being said, I will vote for Malone after KG.
That's what having zero rings and or constantly under-performing in the playoffs will do to you, you mentioned LeBron and Kareem, but you have to keep in mind those two had arguably top 5 all-time level peaks. I doubt Malone's peak is top 25 to be honest.
TheCorporation
10-04-2021, 10:28 PM
That's what having zero rings and or constantly under-performing in the playoffs will do to you, you mentioned LeBron and Kareem, but you have to keep in mind those two had arguably top 5 all-time level peaks. I doubt Malone's peak is top 25 to be honest.
+1
Imagine being so dumb you thought Kareem and LeBron were GOAT candidates because they played a long time :lol As if he also forgot about Kobe playing 20 seasons and Dirk 21 :lol Obviously it's not just longevity.
Dankok8, it could be the fact that LeBron has 4 FMVPs and Kareem has 2 FMVPs. Not just the 20 season thing...:lol
L.Kizzle
10-04-2021, 11:10 PM
That's what having zero rings and or constantly under-performing in the playoffs will do to you, you mentioned LeBron and Kareem, but you have to keep in mind those two had arguably top 5 all-time level peaks. I doubt Malone's peak is top 25 to be honest.
So basically we're just ranking the top players to win rings right now.
So then Malone and Barkley and Baylor will come after KG, Dirk, Leonard, Durant, Wade and Giannis. That's 17 thru 22 right there.
SaintzFury13
10-04-2021, 11:11 PM
+1
Imagine being so dumb you thought Kareem and LeBron were GOAT candidates because they played a long time :lol As if he also forgot about Kobe playing 20 seasons and Dirk 21 :lol Obviously it's not just longevity.
Dankok8, it could be the fact that LeBron has 4 FMVPs and Kareem has 2 FMVPs. Not just the 20 season thing...:lol
You just claimed Karl Malone played mediocre defense. You have no right to be calling anyone "dumb".
TheCorporation
10-04-2021, 11:33 PM
You just claimed Karl Malone played mediocre defense. You have no right to be calling anyone "dumb".
The 6'10 muscle guy with 0.5 blocks per game? :lol
outofstomach
10-05-2021, 12:48 AM
+1
Imagine being so dumb you thought Kareem and LeBron were GOAT candidates because they played a long time :lol As if he also forgot about Kobe playing 20 seasons and Dirk 21 :lol Obviously it's not just longevity.
Dankok8, it could be the fact that LeBron has 4 FMVPs and Kareem has 2 FMVPs. Not just the 20 season thing...:lol
now it’s not “just because they played a long time” yet that’s a main crux of you lesexuals arguments for lebron over jordan in nearly every argument :lol
u bring up longevity $tats to show “superiority” or knock jordan for “quitting” after a 3-peat :lol
outofstomach
10-05-2021, 12:49 AM
the known bron trolls votes shouldn’t even count honestly
the agenda is very obvious and clear to keep KD as far away from lebron as possible
the known bron trolls votes shouldn’t even count honestly
the agenda is very obvious and clear to keep KD as far away from lebron as possible
Meltdown.
dankok8
10-05-2021, 01:30 AM
That's what having zero rings and or constantly under-performing in the playoffs will do to you, you mentioned LeBron and Kareem, but you have to keep in mind those two had arguably top 5 all-time level peaks. I doubt Malone's peak is top 25 to be honest.
That's an exaggeration. Peak Malone from 1988-1992 was a 29/12 player on 56 %TS in the playoffs and he was also a good defender. His underperformances in the playoffs are also overblown. He's had some seriously incredible playoff series too. Perception and narrative is king though and sometimes people fail to change their mind even in light of evidence.
As for everyone else you guys can't read. I didn't say Malone should be ranked with Kareem and Lebron. I simply said that those who emphasize longevity (assuming they do) should make sure to have consistent criteria or it kind of looks weird.
That's an exaggeration. Peak Malone from 1988-1992 was a 29/12 player on 56 %TS in the playoffs and he was also a good defender. His underperformances in the playoffs are also overblown. He's had some seriously incredible playoff series too. Perception and narrative is king though and sometimes people fail to change their mind even in light of evidence.
As for everyone else you guys can't read. I didn't say Malone should be ranked with Kareem and Lebron. I simply said that those who emphasize longevity (assuming they do) should make sure to have consistent criteria or it kind of looks weird.
Lol that arbitrary timeline is heavily inflated by him having a 61.8 TS% in 16 games in the 92 playoffs. Which was clearly an outlier as he was meh at best efficiency wise in literally every other playoff run of over 10 games. Let’s not forget that he put up back to back all time stinkers in 96 (49.8%) and 97 (50.1%), both of which were deep playoff runs.
dankok8
10-05-2021, 01:51 AM
Lol that arbitrary timeline is heavily inflated by him having a 61.8 TS% in 16 games in the 92 playoffs. Which was clearly an outlier as he was meh at best efficiency wise in literally every other playoff run of over 10 games. Let’s not forget that he put up back to back all time stinkers in 96 (49.8%) and 97 (50.1%), both of which were deep playoff runs.
Actually in his five year peak from 1988-1992 his only bad postseason efficiency-wise was 1990. All others were anywhere from decent to really good. In 96 and 97, he had already lost some athleticism and became a worse scorer. He might have been a better overall player because he improved as a passer and defender but I'm not sure. Karl might have been at his best from 1988-1992 but didn't win MVP's and other accolades because the league was so damn competitive.
Actually in his five year peak from 1988-1992 his only bad postseason efficiency-wise was 1990. All others were anywhere from decent to really good. In 96 and 97, he had already lost some athleticism and became a worse scorer. He might have been a better overall player because he improved as a passer and defender but I'm not sure. Karl might have been at his best from 1988-1992 but didn't win MVP's and other accolades because the league was so damn competitive.
Not sure how 53.7% and 53.6% are good to you considering his regular season TS% in those years was 56.8 and 59.6. Dude was a choker sorry.
AussieSteve
10-05-2021, 02:06 AM
I know right. on realgm garnett is above me. THIS IS THE LAST STRAW ISH
ENOUGH WITH UNDERRATING GUYS FFS
KG never scored more than 35 points in a playoff game. Not once in his entire career.
He is not top 17 all time. He is on the same tier as Pippen. Higher than Pip, but on the same tier... ATG defense, but not able to carry a team offensively.
AussieSteve
10-05-2021, 02:07 AM
FWIW my vote goes to KD.
dankok8
10-05-2021, 02:31 AM
Not sure how 53.7% and 53.6% are good to you considering his regular season TS% in those years was 56.8 and 59.6. Dude was a choker sorry.
Just because a guy's efficiency drops from the regular season doesn't mean he's not still a great playoff performer. 29/12 even on around league average efficiency is still pretty damn great. Not many players in NBA history did that. And then we know Malone was also a great all-around player not just a scorer.
SaintzFury13
10-05-2021, 07:51 AM
The 6'10 muscle guy with 0.5 blocks per game? :lol
So Dennis Rodman was a mediocre defender?
L.Kizzle
10-05-2021, 11:39 AM
Yall calling Karl Malone a mediocre defender? Someone with multiple All-NBA defensive selections mediocre.
Man, just say yall don't like Karl Malone.
What next, he wasn't that good of a scorer either.
1987_Lakers
10-05-2021, 11:58 AM
That's an exaggeration. Peak Malone from 1988-1992 was a 29/12 player on 56 %TS in the playoffs and he was also a good defender. His underperformances in the playoffs are also overblown. He's had some seriously incredible playoff series too. Perception and narrative is king though and sometimes people fail to change their mind even in light of evidence.
As for everyone else you guys can't read. I didn't say Malone should be ranked with Kareem and Lebron. I simply said that those who emphasize longevity (assuming they do) should make sure to have consistent criteria or it kind of looks weird.
The only playoff run where he played exceptional was in '92, look at every playoff run in the 90's excluding '92, his efficiency dropped considerably. Malone at the end of the day probably is a top 20 player ever because of his exceptional longevity, I have him ahead of Barkley, but there were so many players who were better than him peak/prime wise that it shouldn't be that shocking that he hasn't been voted in yet.
dankok8
10-05-2021, 03:43 PM
The only playoff run where he played exceptional was in '92, look at every playoff run in the 90's excluding '92, his efficiency dropped considerably. Malone at the end of the day probably is a top 20 player ever because of his exceptional longevity, I have him ahead of Barkley, but there were so many players who were better than him peak/prime wise that it shouldn't be that shocking that he hasn't been voted in yet.
He played well in 88, 89, 91, 92, 94, 95, 98, 00... that's a lot of good playoff runs for a guy who is supposedly not a good playoff player. From 88-00 which is a 13-year stretch he had a 53.4 %TS which is right at league average +0.2 rTS for that span. That is hardly bad at his volume especially considering he played a lot of series defended by guys like Hakeem, Robinson, Mutombo, Kemp and Rodman.
dankok8
10-05-2021, 03:47 PM
Final Vote Tally
Kevin Durant - 11 (Manny98, 8Ball, 1987_Lakers, nayte, MadDog, kuniva_dAMiGhTy, Chick Stern, Bankaii, outofstomach, SouBeachTalents, AussieSteve)
Kevin Garnett - 7 (Cold soul, SaintzFury13, TheCorporation, RRR3, dankok8, NBAGOAT, jalbert009)
Kawhi Leonard - 2 (kawhileonard2, HBK_Kliq_2)
Dirk Nowitzki - 2 (Gonzaldo, ELITEpower23)
Karl Malone - 1 (Magic is Magic)
John Havlicek - 1 (Jasper)
Durant wins. Thread #18 is now open.
expansionera
10-05-2021, 03:49 PM
Curry is that much better than Durant all time despite Durant winning 2FMVPs to Curry’s zero? This site is literally retarded
L.Kizzle
10-05-2021, 03:50 PM
Curry is that much better than Durant all time despite Durant winning 2FMVPs to Curry’s zero? This site is literally retarded
He literally had to join Currys team to get said Finals MVPs.
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